Kim

Hi, I've just joined this list and read the introductions so far this
morning. I guess the list is growing by leaps and bounds judging from the
number of intros today. That's wonderful!

My name is Kim and I'm from Pennsylvania. I am 36 and have three
children...My son Chris is 14, my daughter Brandy is 11, and my daughter
Tabitha is 4.

Although I've homeschooled for five years I've only been on the Internet for
less than one. The way I homeschooled for the first four years was scary.
Mom against child. Child against mom. Fear and anger abounded as I tried
to make a meticulous log and fill it with the most impossible stuff. ie:
Math pages 92-97, Social Studies, pages 65-72, answer questions on 72, and
on and on.

Then this past February I was surfing around in Onelist and found a
Pennyslvania list for homeschoolers that didn't mention unschooling. (I ran
from the "unschooling" lists as they seemed to me to be blatantly illegal
and horrifying). It turned out that the Pa list was open to all from Pa but
the majority of the members were minimalist at the least and unschoolers if
the truth be told. It opened my eyes and my heart to this method of
learning and I've never turned back.

My home is happy again, my daughter Brandy is enjoying her education and
learning alot. She doesn't get beat up at school because she isn't there.
Noone teases her because at 11 she doesn't wear makeup or shave her legs (I
won't let her, poor kid) and on and on.

We had such horrible experiences homeschooling that I sent the children back
to school last September and all of those things were happening to Brandy on
a daily basis so we brought her home again. Chris was impossible at home so
we left him in school, we'll see for the fall where he will be this year.

I think this way of life is the best thing for a child. It's incredible
that so few people dare it. I look at my four year old who was supposed to
be retarded (she was a micro preemie) and see someone who learns everyday in
everyway. She was singled out in her preschool for testing because they
think she's years ahead. So if that's how little one's learn, just by
doing, why did we take these big kids and stick them in an unnatural
learning environment and expect them to become world leaders?

I've seen the light and if I make it through evaluation time and the school
superintendent doesn't try to throw me in jail, I will continue to teach my
children in the unschooling way for the rest of their childhoods.

Thank you for having me!

Kim

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/1/99 11:22:45 AM Central Daylight Time, cook4you@...
writes:

<< I've seen the light and if I make it through evaluation time and the school
superintendent doesn't try to throw me in jail, I will continue to teach my
children in the unschooling way for the rest of their childhoods.

Thank you for having me! >>

Wow Kim! What a story! I'm so sorry that your initial years of
homeschooling were not so hot. I read John Holt when my oldest child was
2ish and I've never looked back. I did not have a particularly stellar
school career, it wasn't awful, but I was vaguely miserable most of the time.

I would like to hear why unschooling as a concept felt horrifying to you.
Were you around any other homeschoolers who thought negatively about the
issue? Part of my work is trying to showcase unschooling so that others
might consider it, so anything you have to say would be greatly appreciated.

LisaKK

Lois Hoover

>From: "Kim" <cook4you@...>
>
>My name is Kim and I'm from Pennsylvania. I am 36 and have three
>children...My son Chris is 14, my daughter Brandy is 11, and my daughter
>Tabitha is 4.
>
Hi everyone,

I just joined today also. My name is Lois, my two sons left school two
years ago and are now 14 and 11. We're from PA too!

>Although I've homeschooled for five years I've only been on the Internet for
>less than one. The way I homeschooled for the first four years was scary.
>Mom against child. Child against mom. Fear and anger abounded as I tried
>to make a meticulous log and fill it with the most impossible stuff. ie:
>Math pages 92-97, Social Studies, pages 65-72, answer questions on 72, and
>on and on.
>
I too tried this as I was worried about evaluations and turning in our logs
and portfolios. But that lasted about two months, my oldest and I went
rounds on this and my youngest wasn't comprehending much. I had read the
teenage liberation handbook and knew that would work with my oldest so we
started with him to see if unschooling really worked. From there it didn't
take long to change the way my youngest got to spend the day.

>
>My home is happy again, my daughter Brandy is enjoying her education and
>learning alot. She doesn't get beat up at school because she isn't there.
>Noone teases her because at 11 she doesn't wear makeup or shave her legs (I
>won't let her, poor kid) and on and on.
>
>We had such horrible experiences homeschooling that I sent the children back
>to school last September and all of those things were happening to Brandy on
>a daily basis so we brought her home again.

How horrible, but from our schools here, I know your district isn't the
exception. Our district went k-4, 5-8, 9-12. My oldest had so much trouble
in the middle school that I knew I didn't want my youngest to ever walk
into the 5th grade here.

My youngest was diagnosed ADD, but I've learned that ADD (for us) isn't a
problem at all unless we want to consider school again. My youngest now has
gotten back his self esteem and doing wonderful things, with the help of a
neighbor he learned how to build computers and sold his first complete
computer to our evaluator last week!!! We joke that we won't have to prove
to the evaluator that unschooling works here!

Chris was impossible at home so
>we left him in school, we'll see for the fall where he will be this year.

I can relate to this also. We had such problems with our oldest that it
made home a horrible place for everyone. When he learned that I was
planning on hsing his brother he bugged to be allowed to come home. I
couldn't imagine having him home all the time, the tension just after
school was already too much. But within days of him leaving school he
became a totally different person. Now that isn't to say that when I pulled
teacher mode we got along much better, but he was smart enough to open my
eyes to the fact that he did intend to broaden his horizons. Once he felt
that his life was more in his control, he was back to a wonderful part of
the family.
Good luck, I'm sure you will all find the right decision between you.
>

> why did we take these big kids and stick them in an unnatural
>learning environment and expect them to become world leaders?
>
One of my favorite quotes was from Einstein. He stated that after leaving
school it took him a couple of years to find a way to enjoy experimentation
again. Just think how different our world would have been if he didn't find
the spark inside himself again.

>I've seen the light and if I make it through evaluation time and the school
>superintendent doesn't try to throw me in jail, I will continue to teach my
>children in the unschooling way for the rest of their childhoods.
>
Hopefully you won't find yourself in jail.lol. I haven't had any problems
here. We found an evaluator who was wonderful, (yes the same one who bought
the computer). His wife teaches at home using all ABeka curriculum, but he
says that he looks forward to doing our evaluations because we do such
interesting things! He has written wonderful add ons to our evaluation for
my son each year and approved my oldest's wish to jump a grade from 7th-9th
by demonstrating just how much he learned in one year unschooling.

When looking for an evaluator, we asked others in the area, then narrowed
it down to a couple individuals. From there we simply made a phone call to
each asking them if they had openings and describing the educational
opinion that we held (being that unschooling/child led was the only way to
learn) We were open about our lack of textbooks/workbooks. The individual
we choose was open about the fact that he'd never evaluated anyone using an
unschooling approach but if we'd bring examples of things my son used he
would give us an honest evaluation. I wouldn't change evaluators for
anything at this point.

Lois

Kim

LisaKK said:

> I would like to hear why unschooling as a concept felt horrifying to you.


Hi Lisa, I think there are others like me out there, others who have been
told by other people that homeschooling had to be done in a very regimented
way. The friend who scared me to death was one who is very intelligent and
usually reliable. Her son is in school but she said she knew of families
that were arrested for not homeschooling correctly. She said that in her
district they force you to work the hours the school children are in school
and use a curriculum or the school's books.

I've heard from many people, most who aren't homeschoolers, I must admit,
that their friends (always a friend, never a personal experience) were in
trouble for not having a detailed log of daily schooling activities and
work. In fact, my landlady is a teacher and last year she turned me in to
children and youth. Although Children and Youth said the accusation was
unfounded they were forced to make several visits, according to their rules.
They even looked into my children's health records by writing to their
doctors. The landlady said that the woman before me was arrested for not
homeschooling "according to the state".

There is a lot of misinformation out there. A lot of people don't have a
clue as to how easy and rewarding homeschooling really is. They are
cowering, just as I was, and if they dare attempt it, as I did, they do it
in such a rigid way as to make life miserable for everyone.

I wish there was a forum to get to everyone, especially those who don't have
computers and those who don't know how to use the one's they have, and shout
to them that unschooling is LEGAL and a way of life. That if they don't feel
like multiplying fractions today they can go for a walk, or bake a cake, or
whatever.

The only ones who know about unschooling and minimalism are the one's who
know someone who's doing it. Those that don't, who have been warned that
they will be arrested for not having a rigid curriculum, will see the word
"unschooling" and be filled with terror as I was.

I hope this disjointed bunch of emotional words can help explain what I felt
in some way. The main idea, I guess, is to make certain that new visitors
to your site, and those that see your list description, are told that
unschooling is an acceptable way of life and that state laws do not deny you
the right to do it.

If I hadn't learned about unschooling I would still be more of a mean
teacher to my children than a mother. We would still be up until all hours
of the night and on weekends trying to make up work we couldn't fit in
during the day. It changed our lives and gave us back our happiness and our
love for each other. Thank you to you and those like you who are working to
spread the word that there is a choice.

Yours, Kim

Kim

> I just joined today also. My name is Lois, my two sons left school two
> years ago and are now 14 and 11. We're from PA too!


Hi Lois, thanks for the support! Where in PA are you? I'm in Coal
Township, formerly from the Harrisburg suburbs.


>We found an evaluator who was wonderful,


I'd love to hear more about him! Please?? :)

Yours, Kim

Lois Hoover

At 01:31 PM 6/1/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: "Kim" <cook4you@...>
>
>> I just joined today also. My name is Lois, my two sons left school two
>> years ago and are now 14 and 11. We're from PA too!
>
>
>Hi Lois, thanks for the support! Where in PA are you? I'm in Coal
>Township, formerly from the Harrisburg suburbs.

We're in southern Erie county, too bad we aren't closer as it's not often
that there are other hsers the same ages as mine and none around here
unschooling that my sons feel close to.


>
>
>>We found an evaluator who was wonderful,
>
>
>I'd love to hear more about him! Please?? :)

He's great, just what I wanted. Most of the evaluators I found test your
child to make sure they are where they "should" be. He doesn't test, he
will ask about things he sees in the portfolio and finds interesting then
watches the child to see how interested he/she was in the activity. My son
shares his favorite book titles and stuff with this guy and they get into
quite a discussion on their views of history. This way the interview is fun
for both of them, but he can really see the wide span of interests and
knowledge my son has acquired on his own. It seems to take longer than
most evaluations IMO, taking 1.5 to 2 hours long, but for $20 that's not
bad.

One of the things that he found interesting for my son's last years
evaluation was his role in a hsing play. My son had the lead, and since his
daughter was in the play he attended one of the shows. So in the evaluation
he wrote a raving review of my sons performance stating for the district
that he'd seen him. This year it was our two weeks living at the Winona
Farm meeting other unschoolers from Australia that were living there and
the things we learned through this that got the center attention on the
portfolio. If you haven't heard of Winona Farm check out
http://members.xoom.com/winfarm/ The page was created by the 14 yo boy
from Australia who is currently living there with his family.

Lois
>
>Yours, Kim
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://www.onelist.com
>Join a new list today!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

Lois Hoover

>From: "Kim" <cook4you@...>
>>
> I think there are others like me out there, others who have been
>told by other people that homeschooling had to be done in a very regimented
>way.

For me it was all the people who quickly reminded me that although I had my
bachelors degree in Business, I wasn't very good at the higher levels of
math. Geometry was good, Algebra I suffered in terribly in high school so I
avoided all the math I could in college. I was told that having my children
home would be okay when they were little, but how was I ever going to help
them with algebra or calculus. Luckily for us, I jumped in without thinking
about all the reasons I shouldn't hs. What I learned was that if my child
wanted to learn something he would and I don't have to know everything
first. Our first year home, they actually taught me things I'd never been
exposed to. Since that we now take it forgranted that we will be sharing
with each other and can learn so much more that way.


The friend who scared me to death was one who is very intelligent and
>usually reliable. Her son is in school but she said she knew of families
>that were arrested for not homeschooling correctly. She said that in her
>district they force you to work the hours the school children are in school
>and use a curriculum or the school's books.
>
I'd heard this too. I figured I could pretend to do the same number of
hours since I'd been in the school and saw first hand how much time was
wasted. Then my landlord who also homeschools gave me copies of the law.
I've counted days and never hours as I believe the hours are first too
timeconsuming to figure out (esp. when we don't DO subjects) but also
because it makes more sense to just count the days.

>I've heard from many people, most who aren't homeschoolers, I must admit,
>that their friends (always a friend, never a personal experience) were in
>trouble for not having a detailed log of daily schooling activities and
>work.

It's amazing how many people are actually in trouble isn't it<g>? I came to
the conclusion that most people are threatened by the idea of hsing and
although most having good intentions will let the rumors fly.


In fact, my landlady is a teacher and last year she turned me in to
>children and youth.

How horrible.

Although Children and Youth said the accusation was
>unfounded they were forced to make several visits, according to their rules.
>They even looked into my children's health records by writing to their
>doctors. The landlady said that the woman before me was arrested for not
>homeschooling "according to the state".
>
She rented to someone else who hsed? I don't believe that it's any of her
business. How you hs is an issue between you, your children, the
evaluator, and the district. Others have no right to but in IMO. Do you
still rent from this woman? I'd have a hard time being civil towards her,
I give you a lot of credit.

>There is a lot of misinformation out there. A lot of people don't have a
>clue as to how easy and rewarding homeschooling really is. They are
>cowering, just as I was, and if they dare attempt it, as I did, they do it
>in such a rigid way as to make life miserable for everyone.
>
Not only that, but a neighbor and I were talking about hsing today at the
library. She's taking the steps to withdraw her son for next year. A woman
came over and said she was sorry,but she'd been listening in to us. She
said it would seem like a good thing with the way the schools are, but she
couldn't handle to be home with her kids all day. I had a similar problem
with my oldest so I guess I could relate, but what she doesn't realize is
that without a lot of the pressures of school her children could be much
more relaxed at home and she might find that they could be a really close
family.

>I wish there was a forum to get to everyone, especially those who don't have
>computers and those who don't know how to use the one's they have, and shout
>to them that unschooling is LEGAL and a way of life. That if they don't feel
>like multiplying fractions today they can go for a walk, or bake a cake, or
>whatever.
>
Wouldn't that be nice? Another mom and I tried to start a hs support group
last year, but found ourselves being judged by the families who showed up.
They came to show us how to hs, and their way was school at home. To them
there was no other way.

Lois
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/1/1999 1:27:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cook4you@... writes:

<< She said that in her
district they force you to work the hours the school children are in school
and use a curriculum or the school's books. >>
In PA? This is not legal. Is this substantiated or hearsay?

Cindy Berkowitz in Pittsburgh,PA

Kim

Cindy, that was heresay but an example of the kind of false information that
is rampant among the population of non-homeschoolers. My friend said that
her friend had to submit to weekly visits and had to provide a log saying
things like:


Monday, March 5

8:10 - 8:50 Math pages 10-14
8:50 - .....

and on and on.

So for a long time that is exactly what I did.

It's a popular misconception that homeschooling had to be just like school.
I know others who have operated under those misconceptions as well.

For years I privately homeschooled in my own way and asked my children to
provide me with examples of pages from textbooks to prove we were doing it
their way.

I was so glad to find out that my way was just as legal. Now I'm even more
relaxed.

I do believe though, that if I was not sitting at the table with my children
working on a collage we were making about school violence and one about drug
abuse at the time Children and Youth showed up that I might have had a real
fight on my hands.

I do think that public education about homeschooling is seriously needed.

Kim from Pa

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

At 12:48 PM 6/1/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: Lois Hoover <lhoover@...>
>I too tried this as I was worried about evaluations and turning in our logs
>and portfolios.
We found an evaluator who was wonderful,

Are evaluators the law in your state? I am still trying to determine what
the laws are, and the requirements in Idaho, and as far as I can tell there
are no requirements of any kind. Does anyone know if you must submit
Intent to Homeschool form, do testing or any other form of evaluations in
Idaho? I have not had any luck locating homeschoolers in the area who are
not religiously oriented (lots of Mormons here.) There are groups in Boise
but that is on the other side of the state from us, and I was hoping to
find folks for social interaction...)-:

Nanci K.

Lois Hoover

>>From: Lois Hoover <lhoover@...>
>>I too tried this as I was worried about evaluations and turning in our logs
>>and portfolios.
>We found an evaluator who was wonderful,

>
From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
>Are evaluators the law in your state?

Yes they are. We must have yearly evaluations and submit proof of testing
in grades 3,5,8. Each year we also have to turn in a portfolio with a log
covering 180 days. My district is very easy going, so it doesnt' seem like
as much work as it sounds.

I am still trying to determine what
>the laws are, and the requirements in Idaho, and as far as I can tell there
>are no requirements of any kind.

There are many sites online that give you the requirements by state, I
believe that unschooling.com has them on their web page also.

Lois

>

[email protected]

Kim Writes:
<<Hi Lisa, I think there are others like me out there, others who have been
told by other people that homeschooling had to be done in a very regimented
way. The friend who scared me to death was one who is very intelligent and
usually reliable. >>

Sigh.. Why do people DO this???

<< I've heard from many people, most who aren't homeschoolers, I must admit,
that their friends (always a friend, never a personal experience) were in
trouble for not having a detailed log of daily schooling activities and
work. >>

Said very gently..... why would you listen to people who weren't hsing??? I
do know of some homeschoolers who have great disdain for unschooling and
pretty much deride it when asked, but non-hsers haven't a clue.

< In fact, my landlady is a teacher and last year she turned me in to
children and youth. Although Children and Youth said the accusation was
unfounded they were forced to make several visits, according to their rules.
They even looked into my children's health records by writing to their
doctors. The landlady said that the woman before me was arrested for not
homeschooling "according to the state".>>

ARGH. I can't disucss things like this coherently and calmly.

<<There is a lot of misinformation out there. A lot of people don't have a
clue as to how easy and rewarding homeschooling really is. They are
cowering, just as I was, and if they dare attempt it, as I did, they do it
in such a rigid way as to make life miserable for everyone.>>

Well, anytime you see some misinformation out there you send it to me. <VBG>
Where could we put information so they can get to it? Is there somewhere
that we are just missing


<>

Oh, they are... we'll keep plugging away at getting the info out there. Any
idea where we could send flyers? or plant a magazine?

<< It changed our lives and gave us back our happiness and our
love for each other. >>

Anytime you have the time to write about how the changes have affected your
family, I know of a place that might want to include your story. :)

Lisa
>>

Kim

Thank you Lisa, I wish I did have an idea of where to place information to
get to the people who aren't looking for it. If I had known 5 years ago
what I know now I could have saved my family alot of hardship. Thank God I
found the Internet.

If you know of a place where I might be able to tell people how their lives
might be changed the way ours was with a change from rigidity to unschooling
then please lead the way. I know several people who feel as I do, that the
word has to get out before more families spend more time unneccessarily
suffering in rules and regulations they don't have to follow. It is so much
easier to go to bed at night when you know you haven't kept your children up
until midnight to complete work. I did this time after time, living in
fear, I mean real fear, that someone will knock on my door in the morning
and demand to see our up to date work. In fact, I'd even set books out on
the table overnight with half done work to prove we'd been working our
collective butts off!

Yours, Kim

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/2/99 4:40:53 PM Central Daylight Time, lhoover@...
writes:

<< here are many sites online that give you the requirements by state, I
believe that unschooling.com has them on their web page also. >>

Yes we do... and in a about a week I'm going to be asking for some help. :)
I would like to add a contact for each state for people to contact just for
info on how to unschool within each state. Some like Idaho are going to be
easy, but others like PA are so much harder, and as others have said some
people will try to make it seem impossible no matter what the law says. So,
if you all will begin gathering up info about unschooling support groups and
points of contact I would be very grateful.

LisaKK

Lois Hoover

>From: KaeKaeB2@...
>>
>Yes we do... and in a about a week I'm going to be asking for some help. :)
>I would like to add a contact for each state for people to contact just for
>info on how to unschool within each state. Some like Idaho are going to be
>easy, but others like PA are so much harder, and as others have said some
>people will try to make it seem impossible no matter what the law says. So,
>if you all will begin gathering up info about unschooling support groups and
>points of contact I would be very grateful.
>
I'd love to be helpful, but I'm not aware of any support groups around us
that have any unschoolers.

Lois
>LisaKK
>
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>

scparentsof7_2005

<<I would like to hear why unschooling as a concept felt horrifying
to you. Were you around any other homeschoolers who thought
negatively about the issue? Part of my work is trying to showcase
unschooling so that others might consider it, so anything you have
to say would be greatly appreciated.>>

Hi, Sll
I am new to the group, name is Laura in SC, and I am new to the
whole concept of Unschooling. I was reading some of the posts and
this one caught my attention. Personally, I LOVE the idea of
unschooling....it seems so natural, and, after off and on
homeschool/private school for my five oldest children (16, 14, 12,
11 & 9....we also have 4 & 3)...I am looking forward to what the
years ahead will reveal. My biggest concern, or dilema, if you will,
is that I find myself being "secretive" about it with
family/friends. Avoiding direct questions about what we are doing
for school or questions like after our Christmas break, the question
was "so are you back to school yet?" My family has doubts that I
can handle homeschooling the children...they feel I've failed in the
past. I don't think I have, infact, after basically "unschooling"
for two years and then putting the children back into a private
school, they all tested at or above "grade" level in all subjects
except for math. To make a long story longer...my biggest fear is
NOT trusting God for the responses and just say we are trying "child-
led" or interest-led learning over your tradition textbooks. Anyone
else out there that has or has had this same "phobea" that can
provide some insight for me?

Kathleen Whitfield

When people ask, "Are you back at school yet?" I just say, "Yes."

Sometimes, I say, "We never left," but that depends on my audience. I know
some unschoolers get upset with any use of school-ish language, but I'll use
it with strangers and others because it is the language that strangers and
others understand. I don't feel like I need to explain unschooling to anyone
who asks a casual question.

I don't discuss how we school with people who are very locked into
curriculums and think we're being neglectful for using a more holistic
approach. I think vague, but confident answers work well for all but the
closest family members, who will insist on knowing more information. And,
oftentimes, closest family members are the least likely to be "supportive"
anyway -- some of them would be fussing no matter what you were doing, and I
think it shows more about them than about your life with your children.
Although I miss my family, I also appreciate living relatively far from them
because of these kinds of issues.

Kathleen
in LA

on 1/19/06 7:44 PM, scparentsof7_2005 at laura@...
wrote:

My biggest concern, or dilema, if you will,
is that I find myself being "secretive" about it with
family/friends. Avoiding direct questions about what we are doing
for school or questions like after our Christmas break, the question
was "so are you back to school yet?" My family has doubts that I
can handle homeschooling the children...they feel I've failed in the
past. I don't think I have, infact, after basically "unschooling"
for two years and then putting the children back into a private
school, they all tested at or above "grade" level in all subjects
except for math. To make a long story longer...my biggest fear is
NOT trusting God for the responses and just say we are trying "child-
led" or interest-led learning over your tradition textbooks. Anyone
else out there that has or has had this same "phobea" that can
provide some insight for me?





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<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Graduate+schoo
l+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+scho
ol+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&
c=6&s=181&.sig=89oOLkTPWnhxf> Home school education
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Graduate+schoo
l+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+scho
ol+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&
c=6&s=181&.sig=1aW-X2S2ZokW3> Middle school education
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Middle+school+education&w1=Graduate+sch
ool+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+sc
hool+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+californi
a&c=6&s=181&.sig=ekWG86FHE6r> New york school education
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=New+york+school+education&w1=Graduate+s
chool+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+
school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+califor
nia&c=6&s=181&.sig=aSJE8BjHS> School education in california
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=School+education+in+california&w1=Gradu
ate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Mi
ddle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+ca
lifornia&c=6&s=181&.sig=gkGy>



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