Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] the school wants more!
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/02 5:30:29 PM, Dnowens@... writes:
<< I was wondering if Sandra (or anyone) would allow me to email
off list a copy of the letter I wrote this afternoon, and critique it
for me? >>
I'm willing to, but I hope some others can too, because I'm in and out this
weekend and will be gone most of Saturday.
Sandra
<< I was wondering if Sandra (or anyone) would allow me to email
off list a copy of the letter I wrote this afternoon, and critique it
for me? >>
I'm willing to, but I hope some others can too, because I'm in and out this
weekend and will be gone most of Saturday.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/2002 8:06:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Have you a copy of the Kansas homeschooling statute readily available? And,
if so, could you publish that to the list in tandem with the letter?
Kate
Law Office of Kathleen M.P. Davis, Chartered
1400 Centrepark Blvd., Suite 950
West Palm Beach, FL 33401
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> In a message dated 5/24/02 5:30:29 PM, Dnowens@... writes:I think you should publish it to the list and let us tear into it.
>
> << I was wondering if Sandra (or anyone) would allow me to email
> off list a copy of the letter I wrote this afternoon, and critique it
> for me? >>
>
> I'm willing to, but I hope some others can too, because I'm in and out this
>
> weekend and will be gone most of Saturday.
>
> Sandra
>
Have you a copy of the Kansas homeschooling statute readily available? And,
if so, could you publish that to the list in tandem with the letter?
Kate
Law Office of Kathleen M.P. Davis, Chartered
1400 Centrepark Blvd., Suite 950
West Palm Beach, FL 33401
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/02 7:09:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
Katedavislawfirm@... writes:
Oh well, the letter follows a copy of the Kansas statute.
Copied straight from the KSDE web site
<A HREF="http://search.aol.com/redirect.adp?appname=QBP&query=%97%91%97%b2%95%19%1f%06%ec%7a%82%2f%5c%77%b7%ad%b9%40%c1%d8%5a%ba%df%1f%df%48%85%a0%3c%a8%76%98%85%7c%ee%0a%67%c2%ac%85%6b%fa%37%82%98%f3%91%b3%3e%ad%f9%b0%a3%7c%e3%d1%5b%26%c0%5c%01%92%56%2c%b6%a0%c2%2a%8a%51%cb%b2%5c%8e%cf%9e%51%a4%2b%d7">Kansas State Department of Education</A>
Homeschooling in Kansas
What you need to know
• Unlike some states, Kansas does not specifically authorize "home
instruction" or "home schooling" by state statute. However, Kansas does
recognize Nonaccredited Private Schools.
• A nonaccredited elementary or secondary private school is one that
satisfies the state's compulsory school attendance laws, but which is not
accredited by the state board of education.
• Compulsory school attendance laws apply to children between the ages of 7
and 18 (may be under 7 for children identified as handicapped). Every parent,
or person acting as parent, of children in that age group must require such
children to attend a public, private, denominational, or parochial school for
the duration of the school term.
• Nonaccredited schools are not required to employ teachers who are certified
by the state, but their courses must be taught by competent instructors, and
they must hold classes for a period of time which is substantially equivalent
to the time public schools are in session in the area in which the
nonaccredited school is located (at least 186 days of not less than 6 hours
per day, or 1116 hours per year for grades 1-11).
• Nonaccredited private schools are required by law to register the name and
address of the private elementary or secondary school with the state board of
education. Registration consists of completing a form provided by the state
showing the name and address of the school and the name and address of the
official custodian of the school's records. The act of completing the
registration form does not mean the nonaccredited school has been "approved"
by the state board of education as a "school" that satisfies the compulsory
school attendance law.
• No fee is charged for registration of a nonaccredited school.
• When a student transfers to a nonaccredited school, the school previously
attended must be notified by the parent/guardian that the student is changing
schools. If a student simply stops coming to school, the school is required
by law to report the student as truant.
• It is in the best interest of students attending nonaccredited schools that
accurate and complete records of their progress be kept. These records will
be needed if the student transfers to a public or an accredited school, or
applies for admission to a college or university.
• If a student transfers from a nonaccredited school to an accredited school,
the accredited school is not required to accept the transfer of credit. The
accredited school may find it necessary to test the student in order to make
a decision regarding the transfer of credit.
• Private schools are responsible for acquiring their own books and curriculum
materials. Books may be purchased from private organizations, checked out
though the public library, or rented from the public school with district
approval. The public school is under no obligation to make books and
materials available to students attending other schools.
• No books, curriculum materials, guidelines, or technical assistance on
curriculum development are available from the State Department of Education
for nonaccredited schools.
• Private schools, including nonaccredited schools issue their own high
school diplomas. The state does not issue diplomas.
• Colleges and universities determine their own criteria for admission of
students who graduate from a nonaccredited school.
Kansas Statute 72-53,100 through 102
72-53,100. Nonaccredited private schools; pupil records; definitions. As used
in this act:
(a) "Private elementary or secondary school" means an organization which
regularly offers education at the elementary or secondary level and
attendance at which satisfies the compulsory school attendance laws of this
state, but which is not accredited by the state board of education.
(b) "Pupil records" means all records, files and data of pupils who are or
have been in attendance at a private elementary or secondary school.
(c) "Official custodian" means an officer or employee of a private elementary
or secondary school who is responsible for the custody and maintenance of
pupil records.
History: L. 1982, ch. 286, 1; July 1.
72-53,101. Nonaccredited private schools; registration of name and address
required; state board of education, administration and duties.
(a) The official custodian of every private elementary or secondary school
shall register the name and address of the private elementary or secondary
school with the state board of education.
(b) The state board of education shall administer the provisions of this act
and shall prepare and maintain a compilation of the registrations submitted
under subsection (a).
(c) Upon transfer of a pupil from a private elementary or secondary school to
a school district, an accredited nonpublic school, or another private
elementary or secondary school, the state board of education, upon request of
the school district, accredited nonpublic school, or other private elementary
or secondary school therefore, shall make available the registration of the
private elementary or secondary school from which the pupil transferred.
History: L. 1982, ch. 286, § 2; L. 1986, ch. 268, § 3; July 1.
72-53,102. Same purpose of registration requirement. The purpose of this act
is solely to make available to a school district, an accredited nonpublic
school, or a private elementary or secondary school to which a pupil
transfers, the name and location of the private elementary or secondary
school from which the pupil transferred so that request maybe made by the
transferee school district, accredited nonpublic school, or private
elementary or secondary school for the pupil’s records.
History: L. 1982, ch. 286, § 3; L. 1986, ch. 268, § 4; July 1.
SUMMARY - K.S.A. 72-53,100
Private Elementary and Secondary School Registration
K.S.A. 72-53,100 through 102 requires the official custodian of each private
elementary and secondary school to register the name and address of the
school with the State Department of Education. The State Department will
maintain a compilation of such registrations.
The purpose of the legislation is to make available to a school district or
accredited nonpublic school to which a pupil transfers from a private
elementary or secondary school, the name and location of such school so that
the school district or accredited nonpublic school may request the transfer
of the pupil’s records thereto.
My first letter stated my name, address ... addressed the principal of Jacks
school and went on to say: This is my written notice that Jack Owens will not
be returning to ____ school next fall. We will continue to educate him at
home. Please send copies of his records and refund any balance in his lunch
account. Thank you for your time... Blah blah blah sincerely, Nancy
Edds-Owens
Short and to the point. At noon, I got a phone call from the principal asking
me to send her quote "answers, and reasons as to why you would choose to do
something like homeschool, when Jack is so happy here." When I informed her I
had done all that was required by Kansas law in regard to truancy, and had
established my nonaccrediated private school 14 months ago when Moly turned
7, she then said "Please for my own peace of mind, I would like to know the
reasons you are unhappy with ____ School." I told her I would consider it.
What follows is a copy of the letter I am still considering sending.
May 24, 2002
D_ S_ Principal
___ School ___ Ks
Dear Mrs. S.,
This letter, although not required by law, is to inform you that Jack Owens
will not be returning
to ____ next fall. Like his Sister he will continue his education at home.
I homeschool because I love my children & I believe that schools are
potentially dangerous to all
children's emotional & physical growth. I believe that schools cannot be
improved to the point
that I would want my children to continue an education therein. I believe
that children learn best
by following their own interests. I am strongly opposed to the peer
segregation practiced in classroom settings. Children separated by age
groups, deprived of the chance to interact with those outside their peer
group is the same as only being allowed to work at a job just for 35 year
olds. The fiction of school socialization is, in reality, full of rude
behaviors, bad attitudes, vulgar language, & worse the victimization by
bullies. Although Jack has only experienced these things on a mild scale, &
Jack (on his own) choose to go to school, I feel no compunction for him to
continue along this path throughout his young years.
I would be in error if I did not take the time to say that even though my
beliefs about school
structure in general are as such, I found Mrs. L. to be an exceptional
teacher. Jack adored
her, & I am so happy he had her as his teacher this year. In all of the
teachers I have known
over the years, Mrs. L. is, by far, the very best, we hold her in great
esteem. I hope she
knows what a special person she is.
I ask that you please forward all Jack’s school records (all test scores,
records of counselor visits,
& all notations. Etc.) to me as soon as possible. I also ask that any
remaining money in Jack’s
lunch account be returned along with his school records. I thank you for your
time.
Sincerely,
Nancy Edds-Owens
What do you all think? Sorry for the length! ~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katedavislawfirm@... writes:
> In a message dated 5/24/2002 8:06:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,You scare me!!! <bwg> I don't know if I want you tearing into my letter! :o)
> SandraDodd@... writes:
>
>
> > In a message dated 5/24/02 5:30:29 PM, Dnowens@... writes:
> >
> > << I was wondering if Sandra (or anyone) would allow me to email
> > off list a copy of the letter I wrote this afternoon, and critique it
> > for me? >>
> >
> > I'm willing to, but I hope some others can too, because I'm in and out
> this
> >
> > weekend and will be gone most of Saturday.
> >
> > Sandra
> >
>
> I think you should publish it to the list and let us tear into it.
>
> Have you a copy of the Kansas homeschooling statute readily available?
> And,
> if so, could you publish that to the list in tandem with the letter?
>
> Kate
> Law Office of Kathleen M.P. Davis, Chartered
> 1400 Centrepark Blvd., Suite 950
> West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Oh well, the letter follows a copy of the Kansas statute.
Copied straight from the KSDE web site
<A HREF="http://search.aol.com/redirect.adp?appname=QBP&query=%97%91%97%b2%95%19%1f%06%ec%7a%82%2f%5c%77%b7%ad%b9%40%c1%d8%5a%ba%df%1f%df%48%85%a0%3c%a8%76%98%85%7c%ee%0a%67%c2%ac%85%6b%fa%37%82%98%f3%91%b3%3e%ad%f9%b0%a3%7c%e3%d1%5b%26%c0%5c%01%92%56%2c%b6%a0%c2%2a%8a%51%cb%b2%5c%8e%cf%9e%51%a4%2b%d7">Kansas State Department of Education</A>
Homeschooling in Kansas
What you need to know
• Unlike some states, Kansas does not specifically authorize "home
instruction" or "home schooling" by state statute. However, Kansas does
recognize Nonaccredited Private Schools.
• A nonaccredited elementary or secondary private school is one that
satisfies the state's compulsory school attendance laws, but which is not
accredited by the state board of education.
• Compulsory school attendance laws apply to children between the ages of 7
and 18 (may be under 7 for children identified as handicapped). Every parent,
or person acting as parent, of children in that age group must require such
children to attend a public, private, denominational, or parochial school for
the duration of the school term.
• Nonaccredited schools are not required to employ teachers who are certified
by the state, but their courses must be taught by competent instructors, and
they must hold classes for a period of time which is substantially equivalent
to the time public schools are in session in the area in which the
nonaccredited school is located (at least 186 days of not less than 6 hours
per day, or 1116 hours per year for grades 1-11).
• Nonaccredited private schools are required by law to register the name and
address of the private elementary or secondary school with the state board of
education. Registration consists of completing a form provided by the state
showing the name and address of the school and the name and address of the
official custodian of the school's records. The act of completing the
registration form does not mean the nonaccredited school has been "approved"
by the state board of education as a "school" that satisfies the compulsory
school attendance law.
• No fee is charged for registration of a nonaccredited school.
• When a student transfers to a nonaccredited school, the school previously
attended must be notified by the parent/guardian that the student is changing
schools. If a student simply stops coming to school, the school is required
by law to report the student as truant.
• It is in the best interest of students attending nonaccredited schools that
accurate and complete records of their progress be kept. These records will
be needed if the student transfers to a public or an accredited school, or
applies for admission to a college or university.
• If a student transfers from a nonaccredited school to an accredited school,
the accredited school is not required to accept the transfer of credit. The
accredited school may find it necessary to test the student in order to make
a decision regarding the transfer of credit.
• Private schools are responsible for acquiring their own books and curriculum
materials. Books may be purchased from private organizations, checked out
though the public library, or rented from the public school with district
approval. The public school is under no obligation to make books and
materials available to students attending other schools.
• No books, curriculum materials, guidelines, or technical assistance on
curriculum development are available from the State Department of Education
for nonaccredited schools.
• Private schools, including nonaccredited schools issue their own high
school diplomas. The state does not issue diplomas.
• Colleges and universities determine their own criteria for admission of
students who graduate from a nonaccredited school.
Kansas Statute 72-53,100 through 102
72-53,100. Nonaccredited private schools; pupil records; definitions. As used
in this act:
(a) "Private elementary or secondary school" means an organization which
regularly offers education at the elementary or secondary level and
attendance at which satisfies the compulsory school attendance laws of this
state, but which is not accredited by the state board of education.
(b) "Pupil records" means all records, files and data of pupils who are or
have been in attendance at a private elementary or secondary school.
(c) "Official custodian" means an officer or employee of a private elementary
or secondary school who is responsible for the custody and maintenance of
pupil records.
History: L. 1982, ch. 286, 1; July 1.
72-53,101. Nonaccredited private schools; registration of name and address
required; state board of education, administration and duties.
(a) The official custodian of every private elementary or secondary school
shall register the name and address of the private elementary or secondary
school with the state board of education.
(b) The state board of education shall administer the provisions of this act
and shall prepare and maintain a compilation of the registrations submitted
under subsection (a).
(c) Upon transfer of a pupil from a private elementary or secondary school to
a school district, an accredited nonpublic school, or another private
elementary or secondary school, the state board of education, upon request of
the school district, accredited nonpublic school, or other private elementary
or secondary school therefore, shall make available the registration of the
private elementary or secondary school from which the pupil transferred.
History: L. 1982, ch. 286, § 2; L. 1986, ch. 268, § 3; July 1.
72-53,102. Same purpose of registration requirement. The purpose of this act
is solely to make available to a school district, an accredited nonpublic
school, or a private elementary or secondary school to which a pupil
transfers, the name and location of the private elementary or secondary
school from which the pupil transferred so that request maybe made by the
transferee school district, accredited nonpublic school, or private
elementary or secondary school for the pupil’s records.
History: L. 1982, ch. 286, § 3; L. 1986, ch. 268, § 4; July 1.
SUMMARY - K.S.A. 72-53,100
Private Elementary and Secondary School Registration
K.S.A. 72-53,100 through 102 requires the official custodian of each private
elementary and secondary school to register the name and address of the
school with the State Department of Education. The State Department will
maintain a compilation of such registrations.
The purpose of the legislation is to make available to a school district or
accredited nonpublic school to which a pupil transfers from a private
elementary or secondary school, the name and location of such school so that
the school district or accredited nonpublic school may request the transfer
of the pupil’s records thereto.
My first letter stated my name, address ... addressed the principal of Jacks
school and went on to say: This is my written notice that Jack Owens will not
be returning to ____ school next fall. We will continue to educate him at
home. Please send copies of his records and refund any balance in his lunch
account. Thank you for your time... Blah blah blah sincerely, Nancy
Edds-Owens
Short and to the point. At noon, I got a phone call from the principal asking
me to send her quote "answers, and reasons as to why you would choose to do
something like homeschool, when Jack is so happy here." When I informed her I
had done all that was required by Kansas law in regard to truancy, and had
established my nonaccrediated private school 14 months ago when Moly turned
7, she then said "Please for my own peace of mind, I would like to know the
reasons you are unhappy with ____ School." I told her I would consider it.
What follows is a copy of the letter I am still considering sending.
May 24, 2002
D_ S_ Principal
___ School ___ Ks
Dear Mrs. S.,
This letter, although not required by law, is to inform you that Jack Owens
will not be returning
to ____ next fall. Like his Sister he will continue his education at home.
I homeschool because I love my children & I believe that schools are
potentially dangerous to all
children's emotional & physical growth. I believe that schools cannot be
improved to the point
that I would want my children to continue an education therein. I believe
that children learn best
by following their own interests. I am strongly opposed to the peer
segregation practiced in classroom settings. Children separated by age
groups, deprived of the chance to interact with those outside their peer
group is the same as only being allowed to work at a job just for 35 year
olds. The fiction of school socialization is, in reality, full of rude
behaviors, bad attitudes, vulgar language, & worse the victimization by
bullies. Although Jack has only experienced these things on a mild scale, &
Jack (on his own) choose to go to school, I feel no compunction for him to
continue along this path throughout his young years.
I would be in error if I did not take the time to say that even though my
beliefs about school
structure in general are as such, I found Mrs. L. to be an exceptional
teacher. Jack adored
her, & I am so happy he had her as his teacher this year. In all of the
teachers I have known
over the years, Mrs. L. is, by far, the very best, we hold her in great
esteem. I hope she
knows what a special person she is.
I ask that you please forward all Jack’s school records (all test scores,
records of counselor visits,
& all notations. Etc.) to me as soon as possible. I also ask that any
remaining money in Jack’s
lunch account be returned along with his school records. I thank you for your
time.
Sincerely,
Nancy Edds-Owens
What do you all think? Sorry for the length! ~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
Hi, Nancy.
My initial gut reaction to your situation is that you might consider
sending the principal the letter you originally wrote, which is all you are
required to do. If you really *want* to go into the kind of detail you put
into your revised letter, do it conversationally in a face-to-face,
UNofficial meeting (like over a cup of coffee in a diner at some mutually
convenient time). I am speaking objectively and, of course, I do not know
anything about the principal, but I would not want to have those kinds of
strong opinions sitting around in black and white in some file waiting to
bite me on the back when I turn around sometime in the future. I know that
sounds paranoid, but why put yourself in that kind of situation if you
don't absolutely have to? The thing is, your letter is *probably* not
going to be the catalyst for some kind of dramatic change in the school
system. So, what would be the point?
Other folks may completely disagree with me. That's just my take on it. I
sure hope it is helpful. BTW, big congratulations to you and to Jack and
to your family!
~marji~
My initial gut reaction to your situation is that you might consider
sending the principal the letter you originally wrote, which is all you are
required to do. If you really *want* to go into the kind of detail you put
into your revised letter, do it conversationally in a face-to-face,
UNofficial meeting (like over a cup of coffee in a diner at some mutually
convenient time). I am speaking objectively and, of course, I do not know
anything about the principal, but I would not want to have those kinds of
strong opinions sitting around in black and white in some file waiting to
bite me on the back when I turn around sometime in the future. I know that
sounds paranoid, but why put yourself in that kind of situation if you
don't absolutely have to? The thing is, your letter is *probably* not
going to be the catalyst for some kind of dramatic change in the school
system. So, what would be the point?
Other folks may completely disagree with me. That's just my take on it. I
sure hope it is helpful. BTW, big congratulations to you and to Jack and
to your family!
~marji~
>My first letter stated my name, address ... addressed the principal of Jacks[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>school and went on to say: This is my written notice that Jack Owens will not
>be returning to ____ school next fall. We will continue to educate him at
>home. Please send copies of his records and refund any balance in his lunch
>account. Thank you for your time... Blah blah blah sincerely, Nancy
>Edds-Owens
>Short and to the point. At noon, I got a phone call from the principal asking
>me to send her quote "answers, and reasons as to why you would choose to do
>something like homeschool, when Jack is so happy here." When I informed her I
>had done all that was required by Kansas law in regard to truancy, and had
>established my nonaccrediated private school 14 months ago when Moly turned
>7, she then said "Please for my own peace of mind, I would like to know the
>reasons you are unhappy with ____ School." I told her I would consider it.
>What follows is a copy of the letter I am still considering sending.
>
>May 24, 2002
>
>D_ S_ Principal
>___ School ___ Ks
>
>Dear Mrs. S.,
>
>This letter, although not required by law, is to inform you that Jack Owens
>will not be returning
>to ____ next fall. Like his Sister he will continue his education at home.
>
>I homeschool because I love my children & I believe that schools are
>potentially dangerous to all
>children's emotional & physical growth. I believe that schools cannot be
>improved to the point
>that I would want my children to continue an education therein. I believe
>that children learn best
>by following their own interests. I am strongly opposed to the peer
>segregation practiced in classroom settings. Children separated by age
>groups, deprived of the chance to interact with those outside their peer
>group is the same as only being allowed to work at a job just for 35 year
>olds. The fiction of school socialization is, in reality, full of rude
>behaviors, bad attitudes, vulgar language, & worse the victimization by
>bullies. Although Jack has only experienced these things on a mild scale, &
>Jack (on his own) choose to go to school, I feel no compunction for him to
>continue along this path throughout his young years.
>
>I would be in error if I did not take the time to say that even though my
>beliefs about school
>structure in general are as such, I found Mrs. L. to be an exceptional
>teacher. Jack adored
>her, & I am so happy he had her as his teacher this year. In all of the
>teachers I have known
>over the years, Mrs. L. is, by far, the very best, we hold her in great
>esteem. I hope she
>knows what a special person she is.
>
>I ask that you please forward all Jackâs school records (all test scores,
>records of counselor visits,
>& all notations. Etc.) to me as soon as possible. I also ask that any
>remaining money in Jackâs
>lunch account be returned along with his school records. I thank you for your
>time.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Nancy Edds-Owens
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/02 7:52:20 PM, Dnowens@... writes:
<< I ask that you please forward all Jack’s school records (all test scores,
records of counselor visits,
& all notations. Etc.) to me as soon as possible. >>
This they probably won't do. You can ask for copies, but not for the real
records. They'll only give them to another school following a direct request
from a counselor or principal at that other school. And they might not give
you copies.
BUT HEY! You don't need them. They would only make you unhappy. Cut off
totally. Let them keep their records.
<<I also ask that any
remaining money in Jack’s
lunch account be returned along with his school records. I thank you for your
time. >>
Asking for the lunch money's fine, but if you tie it in with records it might
get lost. I would ask separately. And if it's not a significant amount, I
would cut that loss too, just to keep from having to interact anymore.
I think you told them too much, and it's unnecessarily inflammatory. But if
you're wanting to inflame them (a legitimate urge sometimes when you've just
had enough and you think it might cause a change in them), then I wouldn't
want to stand in your way. If, though, your motivation is to give them what
they asked for, which is some reason they can ponder or try to dispute, you
could make it way shorter and potentially more effective.
I'll send some technicality-stuff on the side, but wanted to put this out for
others to bounce off of and around, to help you decide what tone you
ultimately want to use.
Sandra
<< I ask that you please forward all Jack’s school records (all test scores,
records of counselor visits,
& all notations. Etc.) to me as soon as possible. >>
This they probably won't do. You can ask for copies, but not for the real
records. They'll only give them to another school following a direct request
from a counselor or principal at that other school. And they might not give
you copies.
BUT HEY! You don't need them. They would only make you unhappy. Cut off
totally. Let them keep their records.
<<I also ask that any
remaining money in Jack’s
lunch account be returned along with his school records. I thank you for your
time. >>
Asking for the lunch money's fine, but if you tie it in with records it might
get lost. I would ask separately. And if it's not a significant amount, I
would cut that loss too, just to keep from having to interact anymore.
I think you told them too much, and it's unnecessarily inflammatory. But if
you're wanting to inflame them (a legitimate urge sometimes when you've just
had enough and you think it might cause a change in them), then I wouldn't
want to stand in your way. If, though, your motivation is to give them what
they asked for, which is some reason they can ponder or try to dispute, you
could make it way shorter and potentially more effective.
I'll send some technicality-stuff on the side, but wanted to put this out for
others to bounce off of and around, to help you decide what tone you
ultimately want to use.
Sandra
[email protected]
Kansas homeschools are considered private schools. You can request records be
sent to you as a private school, not as a parent (parents have the right to
go to the school and look at the records and to get copies - at their own
expense, by the way).
It isn't a good policy, in general, to give schools more than they are
legally allowed to ask for -- and it is REALLY important in a private school
state, like Kansas, to be clear that you ARE just as legal a private school
as any other traditional private school.
"The Kansas compulsory attendance requirement can be satisfied at a public
school or at a "private, denominational or parochial school," which also
includes homeschools. The homeschool, like other private schools, must meet
certain basic statutory requirements, such as "competent instructor" and
"substantially equivalent" period of time. For legal purposes, homeschools in
Kansas are considered nonaccredited private schools.'"
For more Kansas legal information, go to <
http://www.nhen.org/leginfo/detail.asp?StateCode=Kansas>
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sent to you as a private school, not as a parent (parents have the right to
go to the school and look at the records and to get copies - at their own
expense, by the way).
It isn't a good policy, in general, to give schools more than they are
legally allowed to ask for -- and it is REALLY important in a private school
state, like Kansas, to be clear that you ARE just as legal a private school
as any other traditional private school.
"The Kansas compulsory attendance requirement can be satisfied at a public
school or at a "private, denominational or parochial school," which also
includes homeschools. The homeschool, like other private schools, must meet
certain basic statutory requirements, such as "competent instructor" and
"substantially equivalent" period of time. For legal purposes, homeschools in
Kansas are considered nonaccredited private schools.'"
For more Kansas legal information, go to <
http://www.nhen.org/leginfo/detail.asp?StateCode=Kansas>
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/02 8:54:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
zintz@... writes:
afternoon, after she received it and she asked me to give her more
information on WHY I would want to take Jack out, since he is "so happy
here." (her words not mine or Jack's!) I don't really want to go into the
detail in my second letter, and I definitely don't want anything I write to
come back to me! :O She was polite in her request, and I don't want to be
paranoid so I pushed the thought of ulterior motives out of my head. Sandra
sent me some wonderful syntax and grammatical suggestions which I have put to
use, but after reading what you all have to say on the matter, I think I will
ignore her request for more information and keep the second letter for myself
as something to read when I need to vent to myself! Or maybe I will tone it
waaayyy down, send it to her and hope it is enough for her.
~Nancy~ wavering on the fence about this!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zintz@... writes:
> Hi, Nancy.I did send the original letter. I received a call from the principal this
>
> My initial gut reaction to your situation is that you might consider
> sending the principal the letter you originally wrote, which is all you are
> required to do. If you really *want* to go into the kind of detail you put
> into your revised letter, do it conversationally in a face-to-face,
> UNofficial meeting (like over a cup of coffee in a diner at some mutually
> convenient time). I am speaking objectively and, of course, I do not know
> anything about the principal, but I would not want to have those kinds of
> strong opinions sitting around in black and white in some file waiting to
> bite me on the back when I turn around sometime in the future. I know that
> sounds paranoid, but why put yourself in that kind of situation if you
> don't absolutely have to? The thing is, your letter is *probably* not
> going to be the catalyst for some kind of dramatic change in the school
> system. So, what would be the point?
afternoon, after she received it and she asked me to give her more
information on WHY I would want to take Jack out, since he is "so happy
here." (her words not mine or Jack's!) I don't really want to go into the
detail in my second letter, and I definitely don't want anything I write to
come back to me! :O She was polite in her request, and I don't want to be
paranoid so I pushed the thought of ulterior motives out of my head. Sandra
sent me some wonderful syntax and grammatical suggestions which I have put to
use, but after reading what you all have to say on the matter, I think I will
ignore her request for more information and keep the second letter for myself
as something to read when I need to vent to myself! Or maybe I will tone it
waaayyy down, send it to her and hope it is enough for her.
~Nancy~ wavering on the fence about this!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<"Please for my own peace of mind, I would like to know the
reasons you are unhappy with ____ School." >>
Because of a number of reasons, I would be very hesitant to send anything at
all. It sounds to me as if she wants some reasuurance that she/her school is
not the reason. Just giving her a call or writing her a note (not a formal
letter), thanking her for her time and input over the past years and giving
some generic homeschooling reasons that they understand may be plenty. (The
reasons including ones such as, individualized attention, personalized
curriculums, moving at child's pace, and maybe even mentioning the
difficulties of working within a system that can't despite the best efforts
of well-intentioned educators yadda yadda yadda.) I suggest staying as
NON-flammitory as possible, simply because it may give her a chance to think
about it if she can't take it personally. You could also recocommend a book
that gives good general reasons why people Homeschool, like "The HS book of
Answers"
Maybe I'm paranoid but I can picture a casual conversation at lunch between
the Principal and her college friend who happens to work in the office that
handles HSing paperwork where she mentions her formal pupil's mom who is so
anti school and maybe pushing her own bad school memories onto another
generation, gee I hope she is capable of HSing because what theese parents
don't realize is how difficult it is to get these kids to read and hand in
their assignments, and My god! how will this poor boy make any friends? It's
so sad.
<whew> long sentance.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
reasons you are unhappy with ____ School." >>
Because of a number of reasons, I would be very hesitant to send anything at
all. It sounds to me as if she wants some reasuurance that she/her school is
not the reason. Just giving her a call or writing her a note (not a formal
letter), thanking her for her time and input over the past years and giving
some generic homeschooling reasons that they understand may be plenty. (The
reasons including ones such as, individualized attention, personalized
curriculums, moving at child's pace, and maybe even mentioning the
difficulties of working within a system that can't despite the best efforts
of well-intentioned educators yadda yadda yadda.) I suggest staying as
NON-flammitory as possible, simply because it may give her a chance to think
about it if she can't take it personally. You could also recocommend a book
that gives good general reasons why people Homeschool, like "The HS book of
Answers"
Maybe I'm paranoid but I can picture a casual conversation at lunch between
the Principal and her college friend who happens to work in the office that
handles HSing paperwork where she mentions her formal pupil's mom who is so
anti school and maybe pushing her own bad school memories onto another
generation, gee I hope she is capable of HSing because what theese parents
don't realize is how difficult it is to get these kids to read and hand in
their assignments, and My god! how will this poor boy make any friends? It's
so sad.
<whew> long sentance.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
Fetteroll
on 5/24/02 9:21 PM, Dnowens@... at Dnowens@... wrote:
necessary, she seems to be asking out of pure bafflement and it might be a
"teaching moment" that could enlighten her ;-)
Perhaps you could say something like:
I've come to understand that in terms of meeting society's need to get as
many people educated as possible that mass education, like factory produced
bread, is a good idea. But in terms of meeting an individual's needs, an
education that is specifically tailored to the individual, like bread baked
with favorite ingredients at home, is much more beneficial. Wouldn't most
teachers' ideal classroom be a handful of students who truly want to be
there to learn? Wouldn't most teachers prefer to help eager students learn
at their own pace in their own style than to have to teach everyone the same
thing from a standard curriculum?
I suspect that my son's apparent happiness at school was a testament to his
character in choosing to make the best out of something he had no choice
about doing or not doing. Now that he does have a choice between going to
school, he is eagerly and happily choosing to stay home. Should he change
his mind, he now knows that school is one of a number of options for him to
choose from and if he returns to school it will be because he is choosing to
be there and his attitude will then be an honest reflection of his feelings.
Joyce
> I got a phone call from the principal askingThough I agree that it's not a great idea to give them more than is
> me to send her quote "answers, and reasons as to why you would choose to do
> something like homeschool, when Jack is so happy here."
necessary, she seems to be asking out of pure bafflement and it might be a
"teaching moment" that could enlighten her ;-)
Perhaps you could say something like:
I've come to understand that in terms of meeting society's need to get as
many people educated as possible that mass education, like factory produced
bread, is a good idea. But in terms of meeting an individual's needs, an
education that is specifically tailored to the individual, like bread baked
with favorite ingredients at home, is much more beneficial. Wouldn't most
teachers' ideal classroom be a handful of students who truly want to be
there to learn? Wouldn't most teachers prefer to help eager students learn
at their own pace in their own style than to have to teach everyone the same
thing from a standard curriculum?
I suspect that my son's apparent happiness at school was a testament to his
character in choosing to make the best out of something he had no choice
about doing or not doing. Now that he does have a choice between going to
school, he is eagerly and happily choosing to stay home. Should he change
his mind, he now knows that school is one of a number of options for him to
choose from and if he returns to school it will be because he is choosing to
be there and his attitude will then be an honest reflection of his feelings.
Joyce
rumpleteasermom
Marji (and Nancy)
Well, I agree with you entirely. Putting the negatives of school down
on paper sounds like such a helpful thing to do for the principal. But
in reality it may give them reason and ammunition to fight you about
homeschooling.
The one thing I did like was the emphasis on age group segregation and
socialization with those of other ages. But overall, I think that
unless I was absolutely certain of the school sytem, I would avoid
sending anything in writing.
Bridget
Well, I agree with you entirely. Putting the negatives of school down
on paper sounds like such a helpful thing to do for the principal. But
in reality it may give them reason and ammunition to fight you about
homeschooling.
The one thing I did like was the emphasis on age group segregation and
socialization with those of other ages. But overall, I think that
unless I was absolutely certain of the school sytem, I would avoid
sending anything in writing.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., marji <zintz@w...> wrote:
> Hi, Nancy.
>
> My initial gut reaction to your situation is that you might consider
> sending the principal the letter you originally wrote, which is all
you are
> required to do. If you really *want* to go into the kind of detail
you put
> into your revised letter, do it conversationally in a face-to-face,
> UNofficial meeting (like over a cup of coffee in a diner at some
mutually
> convenient time). I am speaking objectively and, of course, I do
not know
> anything about the principal, but I would not want to have those
kinds of
> strong opinions sitting around in black and white in some file
waiting to
> bite me on the back when I turn around sometime in the future. I
know that
> sounds paranoid, but why put yourself in that kind of situation if
you
> don't absolutely have to? The thing is, your letter is *probably*
not
> going to be the catalyst for some kind of dramatic change in the
school
> system. So, what would be the point?
>
> Other folks may completely disagree with me. That's just my take on
it. I
> sure hope it is helpful. BTW, big congratulations to you and to
Jack and
> to your family!
>
> ~marji~
>
marji
> > I got a phone call from the principal askingHi, Betty!
> > me to send her quote "answers, and reasons as to why you would choose
> to do
> > something like homeschool, when Jack is so happy here."
>
>
> >>>Perhaps you could say something like:<<<
>
> What's wrong with what she originally said?? It sounded appropriate to
> me. She made her point quite clearly. I thought it was a well written
> and thought out letter. (IMHO). I read nothing damaging in it. Did I
> MISS something in it ?
> Betty
I'm not Joyce, and I hope nobody minds my chiming in here, but even though
the letter got her point across very well, it could be perceived by the
school system as an attack. She was essentially telling the school system
that they stink at what they do, and that's why homeschooling is a better
choice for her family. While she is absolutely right, giving this kind of
information to the school system can come back to haunt a person in ways we
may not imagine. In fact, I think that when we vent in general we have to
be very careful about what we say, how we say it, and to whom. Putting
things in writing can be very risky because you don't know our words will
end up and how they could be used. The words we write can even be
excerpted and used in ways we never intended.
As someone did mention, it is good to speak out and speak our truth, but
this may not be the venue for that.
I hate to sound so paranoid, but in a society where children are frequently
taken by the *authorities* from their loving and safe homes because parent
chose to be different than society's norms, I think we have to be vigilant
and watch our backs. Certainly, writing a letter that's filled with
negatives about the school system can be seen as putting one's neck right
out there.
I liked very much what Joyce's letter had to say because it was completely
positive about homeschooling and not negative about the school
system. Having said that, I still would be reluctant to provide the school
system with more than is legally required.
I'm really not a paranoid person, even though I really sound paranoid
(hmmm... I've said that, I think, three times now! ;-) ); I'm just
cautious. And, I've heard enough horror stories to make me want to keep my
head below the radar, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, apologies to everyone, especially Joyce, for chiming in on this.
Love,
~marji~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>It was a very good letter but . . .
>
> >>>Perhaps you could say something like:<<<
>
> What's wrong with what she originally said?? It sounded appropriate to
> me. She made her point quite clearly. I thought it was a well written
> and thought out letter. (IMHO). I read nothing damaging in it. Did I
> MISS something in it ?
Homeschoolers need to be very careful not to let schools and school
districts talk them into doing more than the law requires them to
do. Every time one homeschooler goes along with their extra-legal
requests, it sets a kind of precedent. The next family will be asked to do
the same thing. If enough people go along with that, it becomes a lot
harder for families to exercise their legal rights.
I agree with the people who say to either ignore the request or answer the
principal in an informal, un-documented way that isn't at all inflammatory.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
Personally, I would send the required letter of registration to the State
establishing your home-school as a non-accredited school, and I would copy
the notice to the school, also as required by the statute posted to the list.
I would not explain anything. Just give the school and the state what is
required by law. Nothing more, nothing less.
Kate
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
establishing your home-school as a non-accredited school, and I would copy
the notice to the school, also as required by the statute posted to the list.
I would not explain anything. Just give the school and the state what is
required by law. Nothing more, nothing less.
Kate
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/25/2002 8:44:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Katedavislawfirm@... writes:
And then, if you run into the school principal in some public place (I ran
into ours in the foyer of a movie theater), I was light and casual and said,
"Yes, the kids are doing great in private school." "Oh, which school did they
go to?" "Well, it is our own private homeschool." "Oh?" "Yes, we're
homeschooling. Well, we need to go get our seats now, but it was great to see
you!"
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katedavislawfirm@... writes:
> I would not explain anything. Just give the school and the state what isMe too.
> required by law. Nothing more, nothing less.
And then, if you run into the school principal in some public place (I ran
into ours in the foyer of a movie theater), I was light and casual and said,
"Yes, the kids are doing great in private school." "Oh, which school did they
go to?" "Well, it is our own private homeschool." "Oh?" "Yes, we're
homeschooling. Well, we need to go get our seats now, but it was great to see
you!"
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betty Holder
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] the school wants more!
> I got a phone call from the principal asking
> me to send her quote "answers, and reasons as to why you would choose to do
> something like homeschool, when Jack is so happy here."
>>>Perhaps you could say something like:<<<
What's wrong with what she originally said?? It sounded appropriate to me. She made her point quite clearly. I thought it was a well written and thought out letter. (IMHO). I read nothing damaging in it. Did I MISS something in it ?
Betty
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betty Holder
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] the school wants more!
Thank you Tia, I did miss that point. I guess having never had to deal with the school directly concerning my son since I took him out, left me without that insight. I do understand where you're coming from and that the letter would better serve to remain unsent.
Thank you.
Betty
>
>
> Did I
> MISS something in it ?
It was a very good letter but . . .
Homeschoolers need to be very careful not to let schools and school
districts talk them into doing more than the law requires them to
do. Every time one homeschooler goes along with their extra-legal
requests, it sets a kind of precedent. The next family will be asked to do
the same thing. If enough people go along with that, it becomes a lot
harder for families to exercise their legal rights.
I agree with the people who say to either ignore the request or answer the
principal in an informal, un-documented way that isn't at all inflammatory.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betty Holder
Thank you, too Marji, I stand corrected and enlightened. And I REALLY do like to be given other ways of thinking about things like this. Especially feom people who have *been there and done that*
Thanks again
Betty
Thanks again
Betty
----- Original Message -----
From: marji
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] the school wants more!
> > I got a phone call from the principal asking
> > me to send her quote "answers, and reasons as to why you would choose
> to do
> > something like homeschool, when Jack is so happy here."
>
>
> >>>Perhaps you could say something like:<<<
>
> What's wrong with what she originally said?? It sounded appropriate to
> me. She made her point quite clearly. I thought it was a well written
> and thought out letter. (IMHO). I read nothing damaging in it. Did I
> MISS something in it ?
> Betty
Hi, Betty!
I'm not Joyce, and I hope nobody minds my chiming in here, but even though
the letter got her point across very well, it could be perceived by the
school system as an attack. She was essentially telling the school system
that they stink at what they do, and that's why homeschooling is a better
choice for her family. While she is absolutely right, giving this kind of
information to the school system can come back to haunt a person in ways we
may not imagine. In fact, I think that when we vent in general we have to
be very careful about what we say, how we say it, and to whom. Putting
things in writing can be very risky because you don't know our words will
end up and how they could be used. The words we write can even be
excerpted and used in ways we never intended.
As someone did mention, it is good to speak out and speak our truth, but
this may not be the venue for that.
I hate to sound so paranoid, but in a society where children are frequently
taken by the *authorities* from their loving and safe homes because parent
chose to be different than society's norms, I think we have to be vigilant
and watch our backs. Certainly, writing a letter that's filled with
negatives about the school system can be seen as putting one's neck right
out there.
I liked very much what Joyce's letter had to say because it was completely
positive about homeschooling and not negative about the school
system. Having said that, I still would be reluctant to provide the school
system with more than is legally required.
I'm really not a paranoid person, even though I really sound paranoid
(hmmm... I've said that, I think, three times now! ;-) ); I'm just
cautious. And, I've heard enough horror stories to make me want to keep my
head below the radar, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, apologies to everyone, especially Joyce, for chiming in on this.
Love,
~marji~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/25/02 7:11:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
zintz@... writes:
into any details with them. I merely told them that my children would be
attending another school and I would like a copy of their transcripts and
cumulative records. They didn't ask any questions, said okay, and off I went.
I believe that some people are just too intuned to finding out what someone
else is doing and therefore they over step their boundaries by sticking their
nose where it shouldn't belong.
Dee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zintz@... writes:
> > I got a phone call from the principal askingWhen I removed my boys from the grand old world of public school, I didn't go
> > > me to send her quote "answers, and reasons as to why you would choose
>
> > to do
> > > something like homeschool, when Jack is so happy here."
> >
>
into any details with them. I merely told them that my children would be
attending another school and I would like a copy of their transcripts and
cumulative records. They didn't ask any questions, said okay, and off I went.
I believe that some people are just too intuned to finding out what someone
else is doing and therefore they over step their boundaries by sticking their
nose where it shouldn't belong.
Dee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/25/02 2:34:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
dbatiste7@... writes:
principal of Jack's school seems like a very nice person, I *think* (my first
problem <g>) that she just wants to know *everything* when it comes to her
school and may even take it as a slight that I would consider bringing Jack
home. (even though at the beginning of the year one of the first things I
told his teacher was that we hsed the kids and even though Jack convinced us
he wanted to go he would only be there this year)
My husband says that I need to learn to say *NO* more often. He asked if I
had sent the required notice in writing that Jack wouldn't be back next year
to avoid the truancy monster and, if I had done so, then I should call
sometime next week and politely state that we have always hsed the kids, our
private school affidavit has been on file with the KBOE for 14 months, and
will continue to do so. That the only reason Jack went to school this year
was because we felt this was something he needed to work through himself to
understand he wasn't missing what he thought he was going to be missing.
(Darin also said if I really felt the need to say *something* I could state
that this was all just an experiment in what we call the plight of Americas
failed social experiment, but I don't think I will <eg>) He said I should say
that we enjoyed Jacks teacher and think the world of her, and wish the school
continued success, politely say good bye before she could interject much more
and hang up. Which is what many of you also suggested in not so many words
and I thank you all!
My second problem is that I tend to go overboard when it comes to things like
this. I sent the woman the required letter, she asked for more and instead of
just *warming her coffee up* I brewed a whole 'nother pot!
*On a side note* Sandra, I used your suggestions and the letter is now much
stronger in context. I have printed it out and filed it away for that day
when the kids are driving me crazy and I need something to explain to me why
it is that I do this crazy thing I do! <bwg>
~Nancy~ wavering no more!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dbatiste7@... writes:
> When I removed my boys from the grand old world of public school, I didn'tThank you Dee, ( & everyone!!!) I think that is exactly the issue here. The
> go
> into any details with them. I merely told them that my children would be
> attending another school and I would like a copy of their transcripts and
> cumulative records. They didn't ask any questions, said okay, and off I
> went.
>
>
> I believe that some people are just too intuned to finding out what someone
> else is doing and therefore they over step their boundaries by sticking
> their
> nose where it shouldn't belong.
>
> Dee
>
principal of Jack's school seems like a very nice person, I *think* (my first
problem <g>) that she just wants to know *everything* when it comes to her
school and may even take it as a slight that I would consider bringing Jack
home. (even though at the beginning of the year one of the first things I
told his teacher was that we hsed the kids and even though Jack convinced us
he wanted to go he would only be there this year)
My husband says that I need to learn to say *NO* more often. He asked if I
had sent the required notice in writing that Jack wouldn't be back next year
to avoid the truancy monster and, if I had done so, then I should call
sometime next week and politely state that we have always hsed the kids, our
private school affidavit has been on file with the KBOE for 14 months, and
will continue to do so. That the only reason Jack went to school this year
was because we felt this was something he needed to work through himself to
understand he wasn't missing what he thought he was going to be missing.
(Darin also said if I really felt the need to say *something* I could state
that this was all just an experiment in what we call the plight of Americas
failed social experiment, but I don't think I will <eg>) He said I should say
that we enjoyed Jacks teacher and think the world of her, and wish the school
continued success, politely say good bye before she could interject much more
and hang up. Which is what many of you also suggested in not so many words
and I thank you all!
My second problem is that I tend to go overboard when it comes to things like
this. I sent the woman the required letter, she asked for more and instead of
just *warming her coffee up* I brewed a whole 'nother pot!
*On a side note* Sandra, I used your suggestions and the letter is now much
stronger in context. I have printed it out and filed it away for that day
when the kids are driving me crazy and I need something to explain to me why
it is that I do this crazy thing I do! <bwg>
~Nancy~ wavering no more!
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