Re: Bood and gore and 4yos
rumpleteasermom
Betty,
I understand where you are coming from and I partly agree. I think
that a four year old is capapble of understanding fiction vs. reality
and death.
But I agree that if a parent can't figure out how to explain it, she
should avoid exposing her child to it. I like the traffic analogy. I
am also very concerned about the gun aspect. If a child sees these
movies with no input from parents and then finds a gun at a relatives
house, he may point and shoot it because he thinks the person will get
right back up. So I think it is very important to get that 'guns are
not benign things' through as soon as the child starts to be
interested in them.
Bridget - somewhere on the fence in this issue.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Betty Holder" <ninnyridge03@p...>
wrote:
especially if you have no clue as to how to teach one that young about
this. Why put yourself in the position of having to deal with it??
bend over backwards to let this child DO what it wants. If he wanted
to go play in the traffic in the street , would you first explain to
him what the possibilities are of getting himself run over and how
dangerous it is and then let him do it and hope for the best JUST
because that what he 's interested in?? Let's use a LITTLE bit of
common sense! IF we say we have no clue how to teach this sort of
thing to a child that age then do we just let them watch it and hope
for the best ?
Shouldn't we as loving parents, be even more cautious?
a violent movie! Movies nowadays (and video games) use guns to blow
away anybody that gets in the way. HOW can you let a small child
watch things like this and then try to explain to them the dangers of
guns?????? They think they're for the purpose of blowing people
away, if that's what they're first impressions of gun use is. You
might talk your head off but as long as they sit and watch what guns
are used for what are they going to believe?? So you sit and tell
them that it isn't real this is MAKE-BELIEVE?? But in these movies
these are real people and real guns that they're seeing and I cannot
believe that a four year old can reason that well as to draw a line
between what they're watching and what's real or make-believe?
in raising our children!!
I understand where you are coming from and I partly agree. I think
that a four year old is capapble of understanding fiction vs. reality
and death.
But I agree that if a parent can't figure out how to explain it, she
should avoid exposing her child to it. I like the traffic analogy. I
am also very concerned about the gun aspect. If a child sees these
movies with no input from parents and then finds a gun at a relatives
house, he may point and shoot it because he thinks the person will get
right back up. So I think it is very important to get that 'guns are
not benign things' through as soon as the child starts to be
interested in them.
Bridget - somewhere on the fence in this issue.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Betty Holder" <ninnyridge03@p...>
wrote:
> Whoa!! I must DISAGREE with this line of thinking! IMO, a fouryear old should NOT be watching blood and gore movies and video games
especially if you have no clue as to how to teach one that young about
this. Why put yourself in the position of having to deal with it??
> Now come on folks, just because a four year old wants to dosomething, does not mean because we call ourselves UNSCHOOLERS we must
bend over backwards to let this child DO what it wants. If he wanted
to go play in the traffic in the street , would you first explain to
him what the possibilities are of getting himself run over and how
dangerous it is and then let him do it and hope for the best JUST
because that what he 's interested in?? Let's use a LITTLE bit of
common sense! IF we say we have no clue how to teach this sort of
thing to a child that age then do we just let them watch it and hope
for the best ?
> Sorry, but even the movie and video makers try to set limits onhow much young children see. (By ratings of movies and video games)
Shouldn't we as loving parents, be even more cautious?
> I just can't see treating a four year old as you would an adultwhen it comes to choosing what they watch.
> Am I the only one who feels this way about this? If I am, thenI'm going to sign off this list and go read a good book!!!
> As for teaching them about guns, IMO, that is something thatshould be taught REALISTICALLY, NOT explained because they're exposed
a violent movie! Movies nowadays (and video games) use guns to blow
away anybody that gets in the way. HOW can you let a small child
watch things like this and then try to explain to them the dangers of
guns?????? They think they're for the purpose of blowing people
away, if that's what they're first impressions of gun use is. You
might talk your head off but as long as they sit and watch what guns
are used for what are they going to believe?? So you sit and tell
them that it isn't real this is MAKE-BELIEVE?? But in these movies
these are real people and real guns that they're seeing and I cannot
believe that a four year old can reason that well as to draw a line
between what they're watching and what's real or make-believe?
> I don't mean to be sarcastic or offensive if I come off soundingthat way, I apologize. But I think we have to use some COMMON SENSE
in raising our children!!
>
> Betty- yes, Mary, Life is GOOD!!
>
[email protected]
<< Let's use a LITTLE bit of common sense! IF we say we have no clue how to
teach this sort of thing to a child that age then do we just let them watch
it and hope for the best ? >>
A person who isn't good at interpersonals will have a hard time with such
things, and sometimes a young child is in a family with lots of older kids or
adults and can't live the same happy, sheltered Raffi-music life a firstborn
child of analytical liberal parents might.
Holly's experience of the world with two older brothers can't be undone.
Kirby's experience surrounded by other kids his age (mostly girls) of La
Leche League hippie parents at the same age was much quieter and more flowery
and peaceful.
Insulting a big group because of the freely offered answers to one question
isn't the answer. Most people focussed on the guns part of the question.
So? Answer the other parts!
But for me, censoring all input isn't the answer. I'd rather be there and
discuss. But I have never purposely exposed a child to something scary or
offensive just to engender discussion opportunities. Mine saw Rocky Horror
Picture Show (video) when they were little, but they could always get out of
the room, and they saw it for the goofy alien-nonsense rock and roll humor
that it was. And the sex stuff they didn't pay any attention to because it
meant nothing to them.
Had I hidden it or forbidden it, they might be studying it in secret today,
but they can sing some of the songs and not see it as an important or
powerful or frightening thing.
<< I just can't see treating a four year old as you would an adult when it
comes to choosing what they watch. >>
I don't choose materials for adults to watch, so I'm thinking your statement
wasn't worded the way you meant for it to be. I don't choose what my
children watch, either, but I always gave them options. And NO, the options
weren't "Would you rather watch a Disney Singalong or Terminator II?"
Nothing like that. But if at one end is "treating them like an adult" and
the other end is "choosing what they watch," I'm way in the middle.
If you don't treat a four year old with any respect or freedom (to rephrase,
probably unfairly) then how differently will you treat a six year old?
Eight? Ten? Twelve? At which point DO you let them make free choice? Many
parents say "When they prove they can make good choices," but that's like
saying I'll let him take driver's ed after he proves he can drive safely.
Without choice, kids can't practice making choices.
I have three kids now 10 to 15. None of them ever for a minute stared at a
scary scene against their will. None of them sought out disturbing movies.
They watched things they liked. LOTS of cartoons and musicals. Pirates of
Penzance was a favorite. For a while Holly watched Stand By Me every day,
sometimes twice. She was little, maybe four. Marty said I shouldn't let
her. He was six or seven. I said if she's liking it for some reason, let
her watch it. She liked the music and the scary parts (leeches, running
across a trestle with the train coming). She liked the voices of the actors.
She liked the scenery. It didn't hurt her.
<< Am I the only one who feels this way about this? >>
600+ members aren't all gonig to register their feelings in full with you. I
doubt you're the only one who feels that way.
<<I cannot believe that a four year old can reason that well as to draw a
line between what they're watching and what's real or make-believe?>>
Does this mean you haven't had four year olds?
<< But I think we have to use some COMMON SENSE in raising our children!!>>
In my experience, experienced and successful unschoolers are using more
common sense than any other group of parents I've ever known. Unfortunately
in our culture, "common sense" is often the label put on treating children
practically as an enemy species, and putting them in institutions outside the
home for at least half a year if not more. Boarding schools are considered
to be things GOOD parents sacrifice to provide, etc. When using "common
sense" as a banner, please look carefully at both sides of that flag.
Sandra
teach this sort of thing to a child that age then do we just let them watch
it and hope for the best ? >>
A person who isn't good at interpersonals will have a hard time with such
things, and sometimes a young child is in a family with lots of older kids or
adults and can't live the same happy, sheltered Raffi-music life a firstborn
child of analytical liberal parents might.
Holly's experience of the world with two older brothers can't be undone.
Kirby's experience surrounded by other kids his age (mostly girls) of La
Leche League hippie parents at the same age was much quieter and more flowery
and peaceful.
Insulting a big group because of the freely offered answers to one question
isn't the answer. Most people focussed on the guns part of the question.
So? Answer the other parts!
But for me, censoring all input isn't the answer. I'd rather be there and
discuss. But I have never purposely exposed a child to something scary or
offensive just to engender discussion opportunities. Mine saw Rocky Horror
Picture Show (video) when they were little, but they could always get out of
the room, and they saw it for the goofy alien-nonsense rock and roll humor
that it was. And the sex stuff they didn't pay any attention to because it
meant nothing to them.
Had I hidden it or forbidden it, they might be studying it in secret today,
but they can sing some of the songs and not see it as an important or
powerful or frightening thing.
<< I just can't see treating a four year old as you would an adult when it
comes to choosing what they watch. >>
I don't choose materials for adults to watch, so I'm thinking your statement
wasn't worded the way you meant for it to be. I don't choose what my
children watch, either, but I always gave them options. And NO, the options
weren't "Would you rather watch a Disney Singalong or Terminator II?"
Nothing like that. But if at one end is "treating them like an adult" and
the other end is "choosing what they watch," I'm way in the middle.
If you don't treat a four year old with any respect or freedom (to rephrase,
probably unfairly) then how differently will you treat a six year old?
Eight? Ten? Twelve? At which point DO you let them make free choice? Many
parents say "When they prove they can make good choices," but that's like
saying I'll let him take driver's ed after he proves he can drive safely.
Without choice, kids can't practice making choices.
I have three kids now 10 to 15. None of them ever for a minute stared at a
scary scene against their will. None of them sought out disturbing movies.
They watched things they liked. LOTS of cartoons and musicals. Pirates of
Penzance was a favorite. For a while Holly watched Stand By Me every day,
sometimes twice. She was little, maybe four. Marty said I shouldn't let
her. He was six or seven. I said if she's liking it for some reason, let
her watch it. She liked the music and the scary parts (leeches, running
across a trestle with the train coming). She liked the voices of the actors.
She liked the scenery. It didn't hurt her.
<< Am I the only one who feels this way about this? >>
600+ members aren't all gonig to register their feelings in full with you. I
doubt you're the only one who feels that way.
<<I cannot believe that a four year old can reason that well as to draw a
line between what they're watching and what's real or make-believe?>>
Does this mean you haven't had four year olds?
<< But I think we have to use some COMMON SENSE in raising our children!!>>
In my experience, experienced and successful unschoolers are using more
common sense than any other group of parents I've ever known. Unfortunately
in our culture, "common sense" is often the label put on treating children
practically as an enemy species, and putting them in institutions outside the
home for at least half a year if not more. Boarding schools are considered
to be things GOOD parents sacrifice to provide, etc. When using "common
sense" as a banner, please look carefully at both sides of that flag.
Sandra
marji
Hi, Betty!
My impression is that this is not a black-and-white issue, but there are a
lot of gray areas. The way I see it now that I have examined the issue
more closely in our own home is that I trust my son and I know who he
is. He is a gentle boy who takes the trouble to avoid accidentally
stepping on bugs outside, shows extreme compassion to me and animals and
his friends, has never (even as a toddler) hit anyone, and is fascinated
with guns and lasers and weapons in general. What is that? I'm beginning
to believe it is some biological urge boys have, but whatever it is I
cannot deny it and I cannot make it go away by pretending he doesn't like
guns, etc., and wishing he were more like me. For years I would not
*allow* toy guns in the house, but sword were okay. I told him that
swords and knifes could also be useful tools (cutting an apple on a hike,
etc.) but that there were no good uses for guns, which were only meant to
kill animals and people. Well, he heard me, but that did not change his
urges or his fascinations. I have lifted the weapons ban at home, and Liam
is as happy as ever, and is still a gentle, loving boy.
I was running the risk of making Liam feel badly for this natural urge he
was feeling. And, I ran the risk of alienating him. Again, this was not
the desired effect I had in mind.
I think that when you have an open, honest relationship with your kids, you
can talk about ANYTHING, and they will know you are speaking from an honest
place. Kids really appreciate our honesty and frankness and trust. I
appreciate it when people approach me in that way. It shows me that I am
respected for my intelligence and ability to handle things. When someone
shows me that they think I can handle stuff, it behooves me to rise to the
occasion. But, it's not all or nothing. You don't have to sit a
4-year-old in front of Die Hard. Neither do you have to sequester them
from our world. There's a middle ground.
I hope this makes sense! I've been awake for too many hours this week!
~marji
At 09:02 5/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
My impression is that this is not a black-and-white issue, but there are a
lot of gray areas. The way I see it now that I have examined the issue
more closely in our own home is that I trust my son and I know who he
is. He is a gentle boy who takes the trouble to avoid accidentally
stepping on bugs outside, shows extreme compassion to me and animals and
his friends, has never (even as a toddler) hit anyone, and is fascinated
with guns and lasers and weapons in general. What is that? I'm beginning
to believe it is some biological urge boys have, but whatever it is I
cannot deny it and I cannot make it go away by pretending he doesn't like
guns, etc., and wishing he were more like me. For years I would not
*allow* toy guns in the house, but sword were okay. I told him that
swords and knifes could also be useful tools (cutting an apple on a hike,
etc.) but that there were no good uses for guns, which were only meant to
kill animals and people. Well, he heard me, but that did not change his
urges or his fascinations. I have lifted the weapons ban at home, and Liam
is as happy as ever, and is still a gentle, loving boy.
I was running the risk of making Liam feel badly for this natural urge he
was feeling. And, I ran the risk of alienating him. Again, this was not
the desired effect I had in mind.
I think that when you have an open, honest relationship with your kids, you
can talk about ANYTHING, and they will know you are speaking from an honest
place. Kids really appreciate our honesty and frankness and trust. I
appreciate it when people approach me in that way. It shows me that I am
respected for my intelligence and ability to handle things. When someone
shows me that they think I can handle stuff, it behooves me to rise to the
occasion. But, it's not all or nothing. You don't have to sit a
4-year-old in front of Die Hard. Neither do you have to sequester them
from our world. There's a middle ground.
I hope this makes sense! I've been awake for too many hours this week!
~marji
At 09:02 5/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> From: Fetteroll
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 4:03 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: guns was Just my thought on boredom
>
>
> on 5/24/02 2:27 AM, dbatiste7@... at dbatiste7@... wrote:
>
> > how do you teach a four year old about guns?
> > Blood and gore movies? Blood and gore video games? Dying? I have no clue.
>
> Whoa!! I must DISAGREE with this line of thinking! IMO, a four year
> old should NOT be watching blood and gore movies and video games
> especially if you have no clue as to how to teach one that young about
> this. Why put yourself in the position of having to deal with it??
> Now come on folks, just because a four year old wants to do something,
> does not mean because we call ourselves UNSCHOOLERS we must bend over
> backwards to let this child DO what it wants. If he wanted to go play in
> the traffic in the street , would you first explain to him what the
> possibilities are of getting himself run over and how dangerous it is and
> then let him do it and hope for the best JUST because that what he 's
> interested in?? Let's use a LITTLE bit of common sense! IF we say we
> have no clue how to teach this sort of thing to a child that age then do
> we just let them watch it and hope for the best ?
> Sorry, but even the movie and video makers try to set limits on how
> much young children see. (By ratings of movies and video games) Shouldn't
> we as loving parents, be even more cautious?
> I just can't see treating a four year old as you would an adult when it
> comes to choosing what they watch.
> Am I the only one who feels this way about this? If I am, then I'm
> going to sign off this list and go read a good book!!!
> As for teaching them about guns, IMO, that is something that should be
> taught REALISTICALLY, NOT explained because they're exposed a violent
> movie! Movies nowadays (and video games) use guns to blow away anybody
> that gets in the way. HOW can you let a small child watch things like
> this and then try to explain to them the dangers of guns?????? They
> think they're for the purpose of blowing people away, if that's what
> they're first impressions of gun use is. You might talk your head off
> but as long as they sit and watch what guns are used for what are they
> going to believe?? So you sit and tell them that it isn't real this is
> MAKE-BELIEVE?? But in these movies these are real people and real guns
> that they're seeing and I cannot believe that a four year old can reason
> that well as to draw a line between what they're watching and what's real
> or make-believe?
> I don't mean to be sarcastic or offensive if I come off sounding that
> way, I apologize. But I think we have to use some COMMON SENSE in
> raising our children!!
>
> Betty- yes, Mary, Life is GOOD!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> <http://www.unschooling.com>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
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>
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Cmkerin
Betty,
I totally agree with you when you put it like that. I'm all for unschooling
and trying our best to let the children do what they want *except* when it
comes to safety issues.
Thanks for pointing this out Betty. Until you spoke up I wasn't even seeing
the safety issue involved. :(
Joyce K
-----Original Message-----
From: rumpleteasermom [mailto:rumpleteasermom@...]
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Bood and gore and 4yos
Betty,
I understand where you are coming from and I partly agree. I think
that a four year old is capapble of understanding fiction vs. reality
and death.
But I agree that if a parent can't figure out how to explain it, she
should avoid exposing her child to it. I like the traffic analogy. I
am also very concerned about the gun aspect. If a child sees these
movies with no input from parents and then finds a gun at a relatives
house, he may point and shoot it because he thinks the person will get
right back up. So I think it is very important to get that 'guns are
not benign things' through as soon as the child starts to be
interested in them.
Bridget - somewhere on the fence in this issue.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Betty Holder" <ninnyridge03@p...>
wrote:
especially if you have no clue as to how to teach one that young about
this. Why put yourself in the position of having to deal with it??
bend over backwards to let this child DO what it wants. If he wanted
to go play in the traffic in the street , would you first explain to
him what the possibilities are of getting himself run over and how
dangerous it is and then let him do it and hope for the best JUST
because that what he 's interested in?? Let's use a LITTLE bit of
common sense! IF we say we have no clue how to teach this sort of
thing to a child that age then do we just let them watch it and hope
for the best ?
Shouldn't we as loving parents, be even more cautious?
a violent movie! Movies nowadays (and video games) use guns to blow
away anybody that gets in the way. HOW can you let a small child
watch things like this and then try to explain to them the dangers of
guns?????? They think they're for the purpose of blowing people
away, if that's what they're first impressions of gun use is. You
might talk your head off but as long as they sit and watch what guns
are used for what are they going to believe?? So you sit and tell
them that it isn't real this is MAKE-BELIEVE?? But in these movies
these are real people and real guns that they're seeing and I cannot
believe that a four year old can reason that well as to draw a line
between what they're watching and what's real or make-believe?
in raising our children!!
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I totally agree with you when you put it like that. I'm all for unschooling
and trying our best to let the children do what they want *except* when it
comes to safety issues.
Thanks for pointing this out Betty. Until you spoke up I wasn't even seeing
the safety issue involved. :(
Joyce K
-----Original Message-----
From: rumpleteasermom [mailto:rumpleteasermom@...]
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Bood and gore and 4yos
Betty,
I understand where you are coming from and I partly agree. I think
that a four year old is capapble of understanding fiction vs. reality
and death.
But I agree that if a parent can't figure out how to explain it, she
should avoid exposing her child to it. I like the traffic analogy. I
am also very concerned about the gun aspect. If a child sees these
movies with no input from parents and then finds a gun at a relatives
house, he may point and shoot it because he thinks the person will get
right back up. So I think it is very important to get that 'guns are
not benign things' through as soon as the child starts to be
interested in them.
Bridget - somewhere on the fence in this issue.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Betty Holder" <ninnyridge03@p...>
wrote:
> Whoa!! I must DISAGREE with this line of thinking! IMO, a fouryear old should NOT be watching blood and gore movies and video games
especially if you have no clue as to how to teach one that young about
this. Why put yourself in the position of having to deal with it??
> Now come on folks, just because a four year old wants to dosomething, does not mean because we call ourselves UNSCHOOLERS we must
bend over backwards to let this child DO what it wants. If he wanted
to go play in the traffic in the street , would you first explain to
him what the possibilities are of getting himself run over and how
dangerous it is and then let him do it and hope for the best JUST
because that what he 's interested in?? Let's use a LITTLE bit of
common sense! IF we say we have no clue how to teach this sort of
thing to a child that age then do we just let them watch it and hope
for the best ?
> Sorry, but even the movie and video makers try to set limits onhow much young children see. (By ratings of movies and video games)
Shouldn't we as loving parents, be even more cautious?
> I just can't see treating a four year old as you would an adultwhen it comes to choosing what they watch.
> Am I the only one who feels this way about this? If I am, thenI'm going to sign off this list and go read a good book!!!
> As for teaching them about guns, IMO, that is something thatshould be taught REALISTICALLY, NOT explained because they're exposed
a violent movie! Movies nowadays (and video games) use guns to blow
away anybody that gets in the way. HOW can you let a small child
watch things like this and then try to explain to them the dangers of
guns?????? They think they're for the purpose of blowing people
away, if that's what they're first impressions of gun use is. You
might talk your head off but as long as they sit and watch what guns
are used for what are they going to believe?? So you sit and tell
them that it isn't real this is MAKE-BELIEVE?? But in these movies
these are real people and real guns that they're seeing and I cannot
believe that a four year old can reason that well as to draw a line
between what they're watching and what's real or make-believe?
> I don't mean to be sarcastic or offensive if I come off soundingthat way, I apologize. But I think we have to use some COMMON SENSE
in raising our children!!
>~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
> Betty- yes, Mary, Life is GOOD!!
>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fetteroll
on 5/24/02 12:02 PM, Betty Holder at ninnyridge03@... wrote:
imparting a loving attitude towards them and life in general, playing these
self-chosen games and watching the movies with parents often enough to have
their questions answered, the effect is going to much different than with
kids who are raising themselves.
Dee described being involved and concerned with her kids. The answer seemed
appropriate to *this* situation. But that answer can't be extrapolated to
every family with a 4 yo. Nor is the "no violent games or movies" the answer
to every family with a 4 yo. Every family situation is different and the
answer is to look at the situation objectively and make decisions that are
appropriate to that particular situation, rather than grasping at a one size
fits all decision.
I'm guessing these games are being played by the older kids in the family
and the boy is drawn to them. Forbidding him from interacting with his
brothers while they get to play would just make whatever is attracting him
all the more enticing. Talking to him and answering his questions will help
satisfy his curiosity.
a loving and caring home life?
What *are* the consequences you're imagining will happen to a 4 yo by
watching self chosen violent movies in a loving home? It's when we base our
decisions on "Well, I don't know but why take chances?" -- and when avoiding
those chances have for more likely negative consequences -- that we aren't
using common sense.
I think the possibilities of a 4 yo seeing how attractive guns on video
games and movies are and picking up and using a real one are vanishingly
small. *But* again, that's where common sense comes in. If you live in the
middle of PA where every other person has a gun rack on the back of his or
her truck and you routinely allow your 4 yo child to play unsupervised at
other people's homes is it common sense *not* to think that there's a
possibility of him running into a gun just become someone you don't know
never suggested that possibility?
Joyce
> IMO, a four year old should NOT be watching blood and gore movies and videoIn a house where the kids have plenty of contact with parents who are
> games
imparting a loving attitude towards them and life in general, playing these
self-chosen games and watching the movies with parents often enough to have
their questions answered, the effect is going to much different than with
kids who are raising themselves.
Dee described being involved and concerned with her kids. The answer seemed
appropriate to *this* situation. But that answer can't be extrapolated to
every family with a 4 yo. Nor is the "no violent games or movies" the answer
to every family with a 4 yo. Every family situation is different and the
answer is to look at the situation objectively and make decisions that are
appropriate to that particular situation, rather than grasping at a one size
fits all decision.
I'm guessing these games are being played by the older kids in the family
and the boy is drawn to them. Forbidding him from interacting with his
brothers while they get to play would just make whatever is attracting him
all the more enticing. Talking to him and answering his questions will help
satisfy his curiosity.
> would you first explain to him what the possibilities are of getting himselfIs violence so attractive that it will negate the more positive messages of
> run over and how dangerous it is and then let him do it and hope for the best
> JUST because that what he 's interested in??
a loving and caring home life?
What *are* the consequences you're imagining will happen to a 4 yo by
watching self chosen violent movies in a loving home? It's when we base our
decisions on "Well, I don't know but why take chances?" -- and when avoiding
those chances have for more likely negative consequences -- that we aren't
using common sense.
I think the possibilities of a 4 yo seeing how attractive guns on video
games and movies are and picking up and using a real one are vanishingly
small. *But* again, that's where common sense comes in. If you live in the
middle of PA where every other person has a gun rack on the back of his or
her truck and you routinely allow your 4 yo child to play unsupervised at
other people's homes is it common sense *not* to think that there's a
possibility of him running into a gun just become someone you don't know
never suggested that possibility?
Joyce
Cmkerin
Hi Margi, Betty and everyone here on Unschooling-dotcom,
I just joined the group a couple of days ago. What a great group! Got me
thinking deeply about things already. The Blood and gore posts seem to be
ones I'll have to think more about. Most of the time I agree with all of
the unschooling ideas and so it's easy to just keep going along.
My name is Joyce. I see one of the moderators is a Joyce so I'll be Joyce K
unless someone already claims that. Our family is made up of me, my
husband, ds 7 and dd 5. This is our first official year of HE. I'm just
starting to 'get' unschooling and hope that I can do this with my children
without going crazy. <g> I think the reason I feel like I'm getting
unschooling now is that I joined the TCS list not so long ago and can
finally get them too. :)
Joyce
-----Original Message-----
From: marji [mailto:zintz@...]
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Bood and gore and 4yos
Hi, Betty!
My impression is that this is not a black-and-white issue, but there are a
lot of gray areas. The way I see it now that I have examined the issue
more closely in our own home is that I trust my son and I know who he
is. He is a gentle boy who takes the trouble to avoid accidentally
stepping on bugs outside, shows extreme compassion to me and animals and
his friends, has never (even as a toddler) hit anyone, and is fascinated
with guns and lasers and weapons in general. What is that? I'm beginning
to believe it is some biological urge boys have, but whatever it is I
cannot deny it and I cannot make it go away by pretending he doesn't like
guns, etc., and wishing he were more like me. For years I would not
*allow* toy guns in the house, but sword were okay. I told him that
swords and knifes could also be useful tools (cutting an apple on a hike,
etc.) but that there were no good uses for guns, which were only meant to
kill animals and people. Well, he heard me, but that did not change his
urges or his fascinations. I have lifted the weapons ban at home, and Liam
is as happy as ever, and is still a gentle, loving boy.
I was running the risk of making Liam feel badly for this natural urge he
was feeling. And, I ran the risk of alienating him. Again, this was not
the desired effect I had in mind.
I think that when you have an open, honest relationship with your kids, you
can talk about ANYTHING, and they will know you are speaking from an honest
place. Kids really appreciate our honesty and frankness and trust. I
appreciate it when people approach me in that way. It shows me that I am
respected for my intelligence and ability to handle things. When someone
shows me that they think I can handle stuff, it behooves me to rise to the
occasion. But, it's not all or nothing. You don't have to sit a
4-year-old in front of Die Hard. Neither do you have to sequester them
from our world. There's a middle ground.
I hope this makes sense! I've been awake for too many hours this week!
~marji
At 09:02 5/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
26014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1000239/R=1>33b7
43f.jpg
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I just joined the group a couple of days ago. What a great group! Got me
thinking deeply about things already. The Blood and gore posts seem to be
ones I'll have to think more about. Most of the time I agree with all of
the unschooling ideas and so it's easy to just keep going along.
My name is Joyce. I see one of the moderators is a Joyce so I'll be Joyce K
unless someone already claims that. Our family is made up of me, my
husband, ds 7 and dd 5. This is our first official year of HE. I'm just
starting to 'get' unschooling and hope that I can do this with my children
without going crazy. <g> I think the reason I feel like I'm getting
unschooling now is that I joined the TCS list not so long ago and can
finally get them too. :)
Joyce
-----Original Message-----
From: marji [mailto:zintz@...]
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Bood and gore and 4yos
Hi, Betty!
My impression is that this is not a black-and-white issue, but there are a
lot of gray areas. The way I see it now that I have examined the issue
more closely in our own home is that I trust my son and I know who he
is. He is a gentle boy who takes the trouble to avoid accidentally
stepping on bugs outside, shows extreme compassion to me and animals and
his friends, has never (even as a toddler) hit anyone, and is fascinated
with guns and lasers and weapons in general. What is that? I'm beginning
to believe it is some biological urge boys have, but whatever it is I
cannot deny it and I cannot make it go away by pretending he doesn't like
guns, etc., and wishing he were more like me. For years I would not
*allow* toy guns in the house, but sword were okay. I told him that
swords and knifes could also be useful tools (cutting an apple on a hike,
etc.) but that there were no good uses for guns, which were only meant to
kill animals and people. Well, he heard me, but that did not change his
urges or his fascinations. I have lifted the weapons ban at home, and Liam
is as happy as ever, and is still a gentle, loving boy.
I was running the risk of making Liam feel badly for this natural urge he
was feeling. And, I ran the risk of alienating him. Again, this was not
the desired effect I had in mind.
I think that when you have an open, honest relationship with your kids, you
can talk about ANYTHING, and they will know you are speaking from an honest
place. Kids really appreciate our honesty and frankness and trust. I
appreciate it when people approach me in that way. It shows me that I am
respected for my intelligence and ability to handle things. When someone
shows me that they think I can handle stuff, it behooves me to rise to the
occasion. But, it's not all or nothing. You don't have to sit a
4-year-old in front of Die Hard. Neither do you have to sequester them
from our world. There's a middle ground.
I hope this makes sense! I've been awake for too many hours this week!
~marji
At 09:02 5/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----clue.
> From: Fetteroll
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 4:03 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: guns was Just my thought on boredom
>
>
> on 5/24/02 2:27 AM, dbatiste7@... at dbatiste7@... wrote:
>
> > how do you teach a four year old about guns?
> > Blood and gore movies? Blood and gore video games? Dying? I have no
>972:HM/A=1000239/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLmRhd=1022245983%3eM=2
> Whoa!! I must DISAGREE with this line of thinking! IMO, a four year
> old should NOT be watching blood and gore movies and video games
> especially if you have no clue as to how to teach one that young about
> this. Why put yourself in the position of having to deal with it??
> Now come on folks, just because a four year old wants to do something,
> does not mean because we call ourselves UNSCHOOLERS we must bend over
> backwards to let this child DO what it wants. If he wanted to go play in
> the traffic in the street , would you first explain to him what the
> possibilities are of getting himself run over and how dangerous it is and
> then let him do it and hope for the best JUST because that what he 's
> interested in?? Let's use a LITTLE bit of common sense! IF we say we
> have no clue how to teach this sort of thing to a child that age then do
> we just let them watch it and hope for the best ?
> Sorry, but even the movie and video makers try to set limits on how
> much young children see. (By ratings of movies and video games) Shouldn't
> we as loving parents, be even more cautious?
> I just can't see treating a four year old as you would an adult when it
> comes to choosing what they watch.
> Am I the only one who feels this way about this? If I am, then I'm
> going to sign off this list and go read a good book!!!
> As for teaching them about guns, IMO, that is something that should be
> taught REALISTICALLY, NOT explained because they're exposed a violent
> movie! Movies nowadays (and video games) use guns to blow away anybody
> that gets in the way. HOW can you let a small child watch things like
> this and then try to explain to them the dangers of guns?????? They
> think they're for the purpose of blowing people away, if that's what
> they're first impressions of gun use is. You might talk your head off
> but as long as they sit and watch what guns are used for what are they
> going to believe?? So you sit and tell them that it isn't real this is
> MAKE-BELIEVE?? But in these movies these are real people and real guns
> that they're seeing and I cannot believe that a four year old can reason
> that well as to draw a line between what they're watching and what's real
> or make-believe?
> I don't mean to be sarcastic or offensive if I come off sounding that
> way, I apologize. But I think we have to use some COMMON SENSE in
> raising our children!!
>
> Betty- yes, Mary, Life is GOOD!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> <http://www.unschooling.com>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705081
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>
>~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
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~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fetteroll
on 5/24/02 9:42 AM, marji at zintz@... wrote:
thing. I think the only rule she had was not to point them at other people,
to only shoot at imaginary bad guys. (But then I had a Man from U.N.C.L.E
gun when I was a kid and shot at my sister and her friends who we always
pressed into being Thrush and I turned out okay!)
He liked Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and lots of "boy" type things. But
when my daughter shared Gundam Wing with him -- which is chock full of
weapons fire and blowing things up -- he chose the angst ridden peace loving
character who was forced to fight as his favorite.
People are drawn to internalize violence as a good thing for a reason, not
just because they see it. In homes where there's a barrier between parents
and kids, or where kids feel powerless in a family that rewards power (the
parents are dictators and the kids jump when they say jump) then they're
going to be attracted to the types of things that will give them power.
Joyce
> I have lifted the weapons ban at home, and LiamThat's what my sister in law found too when she relented on the weapons
> is as happy as ever, and is still a gentle, loving boy.
thing. I think the only rule she had was not to point them at other people,
to only shoot at imaginary bad guys. (But then I had a Man from U.N.C.L.E
gun when I was a kid and shot at my sister and her friends who we always
pressed into being Thrush and I turned out okay!)
He liked Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and lots of "boy" type things. But
when my daughter shared Gundam Wing with him -- which is chock full of
weapons fire and blowing things up -- he chose the angst ridden peace loving
character who was forced to fight as his favorite.
People are drawn to internalize violence as a good thing for a reason, not
just because they see it. In homes where there's a barrier between parents
and kids, or where kids feel powerless in a family that rewards power (the
parents are dictators and the kids jump when they say jump) then they're
going to be attracted to the types of things that will give them power.
Joyce
Fetteroll
on 5/24/02 11:04 AM, Cmkerin at cmkerin@... wrote:
Though I suspect after the list's experience with the TCS Troll who visited
here many people who had no experience with TCS before are scratching their
heads over that! ;-)
Joyce
> I think the reason I feel like I'm gettingThe TCS people helped me to get unschooling too :-)
> unschooling now is that I joined the TCS list not so long ago and can
> finally get them too. :)
Though I suspect after the list's experience with the TCS Troll who visited
here many people who had no experience with TCS before are scratching their
heads over that! ;-)
Joyce
Betty Holder
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 4:03 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: guns was Just my thought on boredom
on 5/24/02 2:27 AM, dbatiste7@... at dbatiste7@... wrote:
> how do you teach a four year old about guns?
> Blood and gore movies? Blood and gore video games? Dying? I have no clue.
Whoa!! I must DISAGREE with this line of thinking! IMO, a four year old should NOT be watching blood and gore movies and video games especially if you have no clue as to how to teach one that young about this. Why put yourself in the position of having to deal with it??
Now come on folks, just because a four year old wants to do something, does not mean because we call ourselves UNSCHOOLERS we must bend over backwards to let this child DO what it wants. If he wanted to go play in the traffic in the street , would you first explain to him what the possibilities are of getting himself run over and how dangerous it is and then let him do it and hope for the best JUST because that what he 's interested in?? Let's use a LITTLE bit of common sense! IF we say we have no clue how to teach this sort of thing to a child that age then do we just let them watch it and hope for the best ?
Sorry, but even the movie and video makers try to set limits on how much young children see. (By ratings of movies and video games) Shouldn't we as loving parents, be even more cautious?
I just can't see treating a four year old as you would an adult when it comes to choosing what they watch.
Am I the only one who feels this way about this? If I am, then I'm going to sign off this list and go read a good book!!!
As for teaching them about guns, IMO, that is something that should be taught REALISTICALLY, NOT explained because they're exposed a violent movie! Movies nowadays (and video games) use guns to blow away anybody that gets in the way. HOW can you let a small child watch things like this and then try to explain to them the dangers of guns?????? They think they're for the purpose of blowing people away, if that's what they're first impressions of gun use is. You might talk your head off but as long as they sit and watch what guns are used for what are they going to believe?? So you sit and tell them that it isn't real this is MAKE-BELIEVE?? But in these movies these are real people and real guns that they're seeing and I cannot believe that a four year old can reason that well as to draw a line between what they're watching and what's real or make-believe?
I don't mean to be sarcastic or offensive if I come off sounding that way, I apologize. But I think we have to use some COMMON SENSE in raising our children!!
Betty- yes, Mary, Life is GOOD!!
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 5/24/02 1:50 PM, Betty Holder at ninnyridge03@... wrote:
also doing that, regardless of their definition of "common sense."
than what seems likely might happen.
Based on how we see kids behaving under control, it doesn't make sense that
they would self regulate on food and TV. And yet when they are given the
freedom, they do. Reality goes against what feels like common sense.
It *is* common sense to judge that something you don't have time to explain
at the moment is better avoided that one time. To me it isn't common sense
to base advice or future judgements on a special circumstance. Common sense
to me is recognizing that extenuating circumstances need to be taken into
account when applying general rules drawn from real experiences, but that
real experience overrides imagined consequences.
Joyce
> do the very best I can for my child even if sometimes he doesn't get to watchI would suspect nearly everyone who is subscribed to an Unschooling list is
> or do everything he wants.
also doing that, regardless of their definition of "common sense."
> My theory is (IMHO) sometimes he's affected in a more POSITIVE way when I sayLots of people here try to share wisdom based on what does happen rather
> NO than when he's allowed to do something that is going to take a lot of
> explaining from me for him to understand that maybe I didn't fully approve of
> at the beginning and had reservations about letting him do it.
than what seems likely might happen.
Based on how we see kids behaving under control, it doesn't make sense that
they would self regulate on food and TV. And yet when they are given the
freedom, they do. Reality goes against what feels like common sense.
It *is* common sense to judge that something you don't have time to explain
at the moment is better avoided that one time. To me it isn't common sense
to base advice or future judgements on a special circumstance. Common sense
to me is recognizing that extenuating circumstances need to be taken into
account when applying general rules drawn from real experiences, but that
real experience overrides imagined consequences.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/02 8:01:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
their video games. I would try to do different things with him, that is why
in a previous post I said please offer any more ideas. I know that there are
things that should not be before a four year old's eyes, however, my children
all play together, sleep together and are practically attached at the hip.
So, I just don't feel encouraged to continue to pull my baby away from his
brothers. I don't feel that this is conducive to brother bonding (or whatever
you want to call it)
I need to find a better way to talk to him *as you said* and answer his
questions a little better.
Dee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> I'm guessing these games are being played by the older kids in the familyI agree! See, I have tried to keep him away from his brothers while they play
> and the boy is drawn to them. Forbidding him from interacting with his
> brothers while they get to play would just make whatever is attracting him
> all the more enticing. Talking to him and answering his questions will help
> satisfy his curiosity.
their video games. I would try to do different things with him, that is why
in a previous post I said please offer any more ideas. I know that there are
things that should not be before a four year old's eyes, however, my children
all play together, sleep together and are practically attached at the hip.
So, I just don't feel encouraged to continue to pull my baby away from his
brothers. I don't feel that this is conducive to brother bonding (or whatever
you want to call it)
I need to find a better way to talk to him *as you said* and answer his
questions a little better.
Dee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
>The TCS people helped me to get unschooling too :-)Yeah, that was weird!
>
>Though I suspect after the list's experience with the TCS Troll who visited
>here many people who had no experience with TCS before are scratching their
>heads over that! ;-)
~marji~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>This would be hard to enforce, since pretend gun battles are so popular
>That's what my sister in law found too when she relented on the weapons
>thing. I think the only rule she had was not to point them at other people,
>to only shoot at imaginary bad guys.
with some kids. Our rule was that you weren't to point the gun at anyone
who hadn't agreed to play that game.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
On Fri, 24 May 2002 09:02:44 -0700 "Betty Holder"
<ninnyridge03@...> writes:
a shooting range, plus I had another good friend who did practical pistol
every weekend. She was around a lot of guns. She went to the range, she
saw (and heard) them fired (with eye and ear protection on, of course),
and I think we even shot up a watermelon with her. I had a target I'd
shot hanging on ther back of my bedroom door. She knew what guns did. To
this day, I'm pretty sure she'd never point a gun at anyone unless she
meant to kill them, since that was the rule everyone followed. She had
toy guns, of course, but those were different, it was pretty easy to tell
the difference. We showed her our guns, took them apart, let her hold
them, talked about how a gun could look unloaded but there could be a
bullet in the chamber... she really did get all this. I truly think a
shooting range or a practical pistol competition can be a great trip for
a little kid... the people there are very serious about gun safety, they
really respect the power of their firearms.
Rain also watched "blood and gore" movies when she was little...
Dragonheart and Jurassic Park at 2 or 3, Star Wars, all that stuff. I
remember playing "making a movie" with her when she was 3. We'd act out a
scene together, usually involving violence or death, and then yell "Cut!"
and whoever was dead or injured would jump up and we'd high-five each
other and say "Great job!". It was pretend...
When she was 5 I got a scanner, and we scanned in all sorts of photos and
cut and pasted and did weird things, like showing her riding a giant cat.
Even back then we talked about how the movie's special effects might have
been created, just throwing out ideas...
Rain's nephew came out to visit us a year ago, when he was 2 1/2, and he
loved to watch our Jurassic Park and Land of the Lost videos... "Watcha
dinosaur movie?" was his big line. His mom (Rain's sister) said they
owned the Making of Jurassic Park video, and the first time he saw that
he was just enthralled...
Dar
They think they're for the purpose of blowing people
"I don't want to be famous, I want to be legendary."
~ Cacie's life plan at age 8
********************************************************************
<ninnyridge03@...> writes:
> As for teaching them about guns, IMO, that is something that shouldWhen Rain (Cacie) was 3 and 4 I owned a gun, I dated a guy who worked at
> be taught REALISTICALLY, NOT explained because they're exposed a
> violent movie! Movies nowadays (and video games) use guns to blow
> away anybody that gets in the way. HOW can you let a small child
> watch things like this and then try to explain to them the dangers
> of guns??????
a shooting range, plus I had another good friend who did practical pistol
every weekend. She was around a lot of guns. She went to the range, she
saw (and heard) them fired (with eye and ear protection on, of course),
and I think we even shot up a watermelon with her. I had a target I'd
shot hanging on ther back of my bedroom door. She knew what guns did. To
this day, I'm pretty sure she'd never point a gun at anyone unless she
meant to kill them, since that was the rule everyone followed. She had
toy guns, of course, but those were different, it was pretty easy to tell
the difference. We showed her our guns, took them apart, let her hold
them, talked about how a gun could look unloaded but there could be a
bullet in the chamber... she really did get all this. I truly think a
shooting range or a practical pistol competition can be a great trip for
a little kid... the people there are very serious about gun safety, they
really respect the power of their firearms.
Rain also watched "blood and gore" movies when she was little...
Dragonheart and Jurassic Park at 2 or 3, Star Wars, all that stuff. I
remember playing "making a movie" with her when she was 3. We'd act out a
scene together, usually involving violence or death, and then yell "Cut!"
and whoever was dead or injured would jump up and we'd high-five each
other and say "Great job!". It was pretend...
When she was 5 I got a scanner, and we scanned in all sorts of photos and
cut and pasted and did weird things, like showing her riding a giant cat.
Even back then we talked about how the movie's special effects might have
been created, just throwing out ideas...
Rain's nephew came out to visit us a year ago, when he was 2 1/2, and he
loved to watch our Jurassic Park and Land of the Lost videos... "Watcha
dinosaur movie?" was his big line. His mom (Rain's sister) said they
owned the Making of Jurassic Park video, and the first time he saw that
he was just enthralled...
Dar
They think they're for the purpose of blowing people
> away, if that's what they're first impressions of gun use is. You********************************************************************
> might talk your head off but as long as they sit and watch what guns
> are used for what are they going to believe?? So you sit and tell
> them that it isn't real this is MAKE-BELIEVE?? But in these movies
> these are real people and real guns that they're seeing and I cannot
> believe that a four year old can reason that well as to draw a line
> between what they're watching and what's real or make-believe?
> I don't mean to be sarcastic or offensive if I come off sounding
> that way, I apologize. But I think we have to use some COMMON SENSE
> in raising our children!!
>
> Betty- yes, Mary, Life is GOOD!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line!
> ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
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"I don't want to be famous, I want to be legendary."
~ Cacie's life plan at age 8
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Betty Holder
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Bood and gore and 4yos
>>>>Insulting a big group because of the freely offered answers to one question isn't the answer. Most people focussed on the guns part of the question. So? Answer the other parts! <<<<<
I'm sorry if you took offense by my opinions. I apologize to amyone who has been insulted from my opinions. That was not my intentions. BTW Sandra,I did answer BOTH of her questions IMHO.
>>>>>common sense than any other group of parents I've ever known. Unfortunately
in our culture, "common sense" is often the label <<<<
I guess the issue here is HOW we as individuals define the phrase COMMON SENSE. My difinition is apparently different from your and probably a lot of other people's. But it's all I've got to go on. I try to (IHMO) to do the very best I can for my child even if sometimes he doesn't get to watch or do everything he wants. My theory is (IMHO) sometimes he's affected in a more POSITIVE way when I say NO than when he's allowed to do something that is going to take a lot of explaining from me for him to understand that maybe I didn't fully approve of at the beginning and had reservations about letting him do it.
Sandra
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zenmomma *
>>If a child sees these movies with no input from parents and then finds aMy nephew had not been exposed to violent movies before he shot himself.
>>gun at a relatives house, he may point and shoot it because he thinks the
>>person will get right back up.>>
(This was back in the 70's.) He was 2 1/2 and being babysat with his one
year old brother at a neighbor's house. He woke up early and got into a
drawer that was supposed to be locked. He shot himself in the stomach.
Amazingly, he survived.
I don't think we can blame gun interest or gun accidents or violence in
children on exposure to movie scenes. It's a much more complex phenomenom.
Life is good.
~Mary
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zenmomma *
>>Our rule was that you weren't to point the gun at anyone who hadn't agreedWe extended that to not pointing a gun at an unarmed man (or woman ;-)). So
>>to play that game.>>
if someone had been playing but put their gun down for some reason, he was
temporarily out of the game.
Life is good.
~Mary
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