Alan & Brenda Leonard

> Some of my best friends don't watch tv. <g> Who cares whether they do or not?
> I don't. Except sometimes they don't get the jokes people make.

Now, this is me. I personally hate TV -- it's blue flicker bugs me. (And
like a lot of things, I don't care if other people do it, *I* just don't.)
But not getting the jokes can make me feel pretty out of it sometimes!

brenda

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@e...>
wrote:

> But not getting the jokes can make me feel pretty out of it
sometimes!
>

You should hang around with us - Noone gets one of our jokes except
the rest of us.

Bridget

Tim Traaseth

I take pride in our uneducatedness when it comes to the TV and love the
uniqueness of it! Kelli
----- Original Message -----
From: "rumpleteasermom" <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 8:29 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV and humor


> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@e...>
> wrote:
>
> > But not getting the jokes can make me feel pretty out of it
> sometimes!
> >
>
> You should hang around with us - Noone gets one of our jokes except
> the rest of us.
>
> Bridget
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

rumpleteasermom

Well, I love our uniqueness, but it has nothing to do with whether we
do or don't watch TV. It is a sum of all that we do and the fact that
the TV is part of it just adds another layer of depth. I listened to
Wyndham tell someone that some current movie or TV show (I forget
which) was going to have Black Adder's dumb friend in it. I could
tell that the person he was talking to had no clue who or what Black
Adder was!

Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Tim Traaseth" <timt@p...> wrote:
> I take pride in our uneducatedness when it comes to the TV and love
the
> uniqueness of it! Kelli

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/02 7:47:12 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:

<< I listened to
Wyndham tell someone that some current movie or TV show (I forget
which) was going to have Black Adder's dumb friend in it. I could
tell that the person he was talking to had no clue who or what Black
Adder was! >>

In England the guy who plays Baldrick is WAY popular--has another show or two
of his own. In the U.S. we pretty much only know him from Black Adder, but
Rowan Atkinson is well known: Mr. Bean (another BBC comedy) has been on some
PBS stations, and there was the movie, and him doing the voice in Lion King
(Zazu? the bird). I've heard they don't care nearly as much in the U.K. for
Rowan Atkinson as they do for the other guy.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/2002 6:40:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
timt@... writes:


> I take pride in our uneducatedness when it comes to the TV and love the
> uniqueness of it! Kelli

I take pride in our uneducatedness when it comes to books and love the
uniqueness of it!

Well - not really - but I just don't get it, honestly, why people feel this
way about tv and not about books.

But - I also don't get why people think it is charming or cute or attractive
or whatever - to say, "I'm so bad at math - I can't even balance my own
checkbooks (or figure a tip or whatever)." I always imagine them sitting at
dinner in a nice restaurant - saying to their date, "I'm so bad at reading -
I can't even read a book (or the newspaper or whatever)." How attractive
would THAT be?

--pamS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
>
> > I take pride in our uneducatedness when it comes to the TV and love the
> > uniqueness of it! Kelli
>
>I take pride in our uneducatedness when it comes to books and love the
>uniqueness of it!
>
>Well - not really - but I just don't get it, honestly, why people feel this
>way about tv and not about books.

I can see both sides of this one. I think it has to do with the fact that
TV programs get popular and then "everyone" watches those shows and knows
what they're about. That doesn't happen so much with books.

I don't watch TV. I don't take pride in it, though I used to before I
started reading this list. <g>
We got a TV and cable a couple of months ago. Before that, dh and ds used
to go next door and watch the in-law's second TV all the time. In fact,
the reason I agreed to get a TV at all was because I realized that it was
the only way I was going to get some family life. (I don't regret it at
all, by the way.) Since we got the TV, I've been checking listings, seeing
what I might want to watch. Once in a while, something sparks my interest
a bit, and I think I'll watch it. But when the time comes, there's usually
something else I'd rather do. (Even reading e-mail) <g> I know there
are probably shows out there that I'd like if I found them, but it just
seems like too much trouble. On the other hand, I know there *are* books
I'll like, because I've already found so many of them in my life. My
personal experience tells me that I'm more likely to find a book I like
than a TV show.


>But - I also don't get why people think it is charming or cute or attractive
>or whatever - to say, "I'm so bad at math - I can't even balance my own
>checkbooks (or figure a tip or whatever)." I always imagine them sitting at
>dinner in a nice restaurant - saying to their date, "I'm so bad at reading -
>I can't even read a book (or the newspaper or whatever)." How attractive
>would THAT be?

In this case I don't think it's so much bragging as having a ready excuse
not to try.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

On Sun, 26 May 2002 08:31:02 -0700 Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
writes:
> In this case I don't think it's so much bragging as having a ready
> excuse
> not to try.
>
Yes, but it's still seen as "cute" to not be able to do simple math,
especially if you're a woman. Whereas not reading is seen as shameful...
imagine asking your dinner partner for help reading the menu, and asking
him for help figuring a tip. No one over 10 has ever asked me for the
former, but many adults have asked me for the latter.

I'm personally in the "drop the last digit, divide that answer in half
and add to itself" camp, but doubling the tax works equally well in most
areas where I've lived. It's a ballpark thing, after all..

Dar

lwsskater

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:

> Yes, but it's still seen as "cute" to not be able to do simple math,
> especially if you're a woman. Whereas not reading is seen as
shameful...
> imagine asking your dinner partner for help reading the menu, and
asking
> him for help figuring a tip. No one over 10 has ever asked me for
the
> former, but many adults have asked me for the latter.

Hmmm. I personally can't think of any adults I know that can't read,
but I can think of many that have math anxiety. I'm one of them.
When I ask for help figuring a tip, it's not because I'm trying to
look cute, it's because I really do want help. Actually, for me, it's
not figuring the tip that bothers me, it's figuring who owes what if
I've gone to dinner with a bunch of friends and we need to add a tip
and then divide the whole thing among, say, seven people.
It's not that I can't do it, it's that I hate to do it and feel
genuine anxiety when I have to.
Math was also my most feared/hated subject in school as a child, and
it had nothing to do with looking cute then either.

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/02 11:44:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
PSoroosh@... writes:


> >>Well - not really - but I just don't get it, honestly, why people feel
> this
> way about tv and not about books.<<

I was just having a conversation about books vs. television with my friend
yesterday. There was a book, Night John, that children were supposed to read
and report on for a grade (at the school where I worked) However, the book
contained graphic (of course we all have an imagination) content. The
teachers didn't find that there was anything wrong with this and one teacher
proceeded to tell me, "at least they are not watching it on television!" What
difference is that the child reads "bad" content on pages as opposed to
seeing it on television. Either way there is going to be a mental picture
that the child has conjured up or a visual from the child watching
television.

I would have to say that I don't agree with all things, but like I said
before...I am easy to get along with.

There are a lot of things that deem to provide an educational experience for
our children. Though some things are inappropriate for children, depending on
their maturity and the feeling of the parent.

My sister has a 9 year old who watches some of everything. When she takes my
children to the movies I have to tell her what they are allowed to watch and
what they are not allowed to watch. She doesn't agree with me on some things,
but that is absolutely okay.

There are learning experiences around us everyday, some choose to allow
television to be an integral part of it all, while others choose to use other
learning directives. It is all okay, why? Because we are parents that have
different beliefs, yet we can all come together with a common goal, to
homeschool our children and offer them something different as opposed to the
norm. We have all decided to step out of the box and open new doors for our
families. Doors that lead us into different directions, yet when we look back
at the friendships we've made, we all had one common goal...our children and
their well being.

I said all that to say...that is why I really love this board. I have
witnessed a "tiny bit" of nastiness, but hey...this is the real world right?!
I have seen a lot of caring on this board as well...it is a well kept
balance. It is so good to be able to share your feelings and your concerns
without being torn apart at a whim. Yet it is also good to get some honest
feedback from other individuals who have "just about" the same commonality
that you do.

Joyce, thank you so much for being the moderator that you are. I have been on
other boards before and the moderator is neither here nor there. There is so
much confusion going on. You apparently have kept your head above water and
you are doing a wonderful job.

Okay...enough of that...back to unschooling :)

Dee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/26/02 11:07:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
averyp@... writes:


> Hmmm. I personally can't think of any adults I know that can't read,
> but I can think of many that have math anxiety. I'm one of them.
> When I ask for help figuring a tip, it's not because I'm trying to
> look cute, it's because I really do want help. Actually, for me, it's
> not figuring the tip that bothers me, it's figuring who owes what if
> I've gone to dinner with a bunch of friends and we need to add a tip
> and then divide the whole thing among, say, seven people.
> It's not that I can't do it, it's that I hate to do it and feel
> genuine anxiety when I have to.
> Math was also my most feared/hated subject in school as a child, and
> it had nothing to do with looking cute then either.
>

Funny...how you explained that. Only if I thought I looked cute while
appearing like the biggest idiot in the world! It is funny, when I am around
other people it is hard for me to focus on math, so anxiety sets in and I
become the dummy in the room because I can't stop thinking about what they
are going to say if I get this problem wrong.

I only took Algebra in High School and don't remember most of it because I
haven't refreshed myself. I will be taking classes at the college next
semester to finish my pre-algebra units. My 13 year old is moving at such a
fast pace that he has to take the college courses in math only because I am a
nutcase when it comes to it. I won't be able to assist him. This summer he
will finish his introductory class to Geometry, August he will be taking
Algebra I, January he will be taking Algebra II, there is no way he will be
getting any help from me. IN fact he thinks it is funny to come to me and
say, "hey mom?! I can tutor you for a small fee! LOL In fact, he is rather
happy that I am going to be in class with him. As long as I don't act like
his mother...sorry, kid, God put me in charge of your life 24/7 :)

Dee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/26/2002 11:07:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
averyp@... writes:


> Math was also my most feared/hated subject in school as a child, and
> it had nothing to do with looking cute then either.

No - I don't think AT ALL that most people who have math anxiety and fear and
admit to not "getting" math are TRYING to be cute or attractive or anything
like that. In fact, for most people with math anxiety it is the cause of some
level, large or small, of background discomfort.

But - it is still true that many CONSIDER it cute and attractive. And, it is
just interesting that in this culture it is totally cool to say "I can't
balance my checkbook" but it is horribly shamefully humiliating if it is
found out that someone can't read.

--pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/26/2002 11:31:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dbatiste7@... writes:


> would have to say that I don't agree with all things, but like I said
> before...I am easy to get along with.

You said that before and I just wanted to say that I'm guessing you're easy
to get along with because you really listen seriously to other people's
ideas, even when you don't think you agree with them. I think it is great
when people disagree, but still find other people's ideas interesting and
worth considering -- after all, just listening with an open mind isn't the
same as "adopting" someone else's ideas.

--pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/26/2002 11:31:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dbatiste7@... writes:


> My sister has a 9 year old who watches some of everything. When she takes my
>
> children to the movies I have to tell her what they are allowed to watch
> and
> what they are not allowed to watch. She doesn't agree with me on some
> things,
> but that is absolutely okay.

One of my sisters is really restrictive about what her kids can see and do.
WAY more than I am. She makes a lot of rules and believes that ever making an
exception will start them on an instant downward spiral. Her kids are great
- nice and happy and we all get along fine. The only problem we really have
ever had is that her 7 yo has been asking her to skip school to do things
with the "park kids" -- by which he means homeschoolers -- because sometimes
he comes to our park days when he's on vacation from his school. He doesn't
get why he can't skip school, too <BEG>. (I don't think he gets it that the
"park kids" NEVER go to school.)

--pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/26/02 5:27:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, PSoroosh@...
writes:


> (I don't think he gets it that the
> "park kids" NEVER go to school.)
>

Now this is funny! Park kids :) I remember when we lived in Arkansas, there
was this lovely family that lived next door to us. Well, my children were all
going to school at the time (homeschooled them later on) and they wondered
why these little kids were always outside early in the morning in their
pj's...don't they go to school too? Well, they would be outside checking the
morning temp for their science experiments to find the average temp over a
week...which is a really good experiment. I had to explain to the kids that
they were going to school too, they just weren't getting on the bus. if you
can imagine, after that they hated school. They wanted to do what their
friends were doing. My oldest son says to me, "I want to check the temparture
too!" After that I began my homeschooling. My boys absolutely loved it and
they loved being able to "miss school"

On the sister note: I am much more restrictive than my sister is. Yet when s
he comes over she tries to make it seem as though I should allow my children
to watch a certain movie because after all they watched another movie that
had some of the same content. Well, my babies watching a move where someone
is kicking, or cursing doesn't mean that they should be exposed to a girl
with a thong on or a guy walking around in a G string. Two different
scenarios here. I can't seem to get this point across to her.

If anyone is interested in screening movies before your family watches
them...a good site... http://www.screenit.com

This site is excellent, it tells you the number of profanity words, it tells
you (in depth) the sexual content of the movie, the imitative behavior...it
is just really good. I use it all of the time.

Dee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., dbatiste7@a... wrote:
> Well, my babies watching a move where
someone
> is kicking, or cursing doesn't mean that they should be exposed to a
girl
> with a thong on or a guy walking around in a G string. Two different
> scenarios here. I can't seem to get this point across to her.
>

This seems to imply that you think mild violence is okay but revealing
clothes are not. I've always wondered why so many in our society
think violence is perfectly acceptable in a movie but sexuality is
not. I'd rather my kids watch movies with graphic sex scenes than
ones with gratuitous violence. So I guess my question is WHY do you
feel that way? I'm truly interested in hearing why, but I wanted to
try to give you an idea of where I am coming from on this.

Bridget

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/26/02 9:51:29 AM, leschke@... writes:

<< But - I also don't get why people think it is charming or cute or
attractive
>or whatever - to say, "I'm so bad at math - I can't even balance my own
>checkbooks (or figure a tip or whatever)." I always imagine them sitting at
>dinner in a nice restaurant - saying to their date, "I'm so bad at reading -
>I can't even read a book (or the newspaper or whatever)." How attractive
>would THAT be?

<<In this case I don't think it's so much bragging as having a ready excuse
not to try. >>

I agree with Tia. Reading is too connected with basic intelligence and
function. If you can't read you are ILLITERATE. That's a very bad thing.

If you can't do math, you can blame the school! Blame your gender and
puberty!

The thought has occurred to me lately that people will be doing that with
"ADD" in ten or twenty years. "I'm sorry, I zoned out because I'm ADD."

"I can't pay attention to you, I'm ADD."

"Yes, I forgot to put gas in the car, but I'm ADD."

"The checking account is overdrawn and I forgot to get groceries, but I'm
ADD."


Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/27/02 6:05:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:


> This seems to imply that you think mild violence is okay but revealing
> clothes are not. I've always wondered why so many in our society
> think violence is perfectly acceptable in a movie but sexuality is
> not. I'd rather my kids watch movies with graphic sex scenes than
> ones with gratuitous violence. So I guess my question is WHY do you
> feel that way? I'm truly interested in hearing why, but I wanted to
> try to give you an idea of where I am coming from on this.
>
> Bridget
>

Bridget,
First of all, please don't take my post as being offensive. I am merely going
to post my thought on the whole thing. Okay?! :)

You would rather let your child watch a movie with "graphic sex scenes"
(porn) than gratuitous violence...well I don't call a movie that has a couple
of punches that lend a bloody lip gratuitous violence. Neither do I see a
kick that violent either. But graphic sex scenes...that is a little more than
"I" care to explain. I guess that is the reason why I say no. When your child
watches these types of movies, do you explain to them why the man does what
he does and why the woman does what she does? I would have a REALLY HARD TIME
trying to explain sexually graphic material.

And again honey, you know as well as I do that everyone has their level of
belief. So, thanks for allowing me to share.

Dee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/26/02 8:20:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PSoroosh@...
writes:


> But - it is still true that many CONSIDER it cute and attractive. And, it is
>
> just interesting that in this culture it is totally cool to say "I can't
> balance my checkbook" but it is horribly shamefully humiliating if it is
> found out that someone can't read.
>
>

I think "cute and attractive" may not be a choice of words that some
understand, unless paired with a phrase like "socially acceptable". Reading
illiteracy is not attractive, because it is frowned upon. It is the
foundation for all other education and getting along in our society. But math
and computer illiteracy are socially acceptable, and people have a certain
comfort level with it. You don't need a computer to drive a car(legally),
read directions, shop at the store. Calculators are available for those who
are math-impaired. That's the difference, IMO.
Ang
SAHM to
Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
<A HREF="http://www.twgallery.8m.com/MEGAMOM08.html">Meet MEGAMOM08</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/christian.html">Christian's Birth Story</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/mygirlspage.html">My Girls page</A>
|w|w|











































































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/27/02 10:03:16 AM, dbatiste7@... writes:

<< When your child
watches these types of movies, do you explain to them why the man does what
he does and why the woman does what she does? I would have a REALLY HARD TIME
trying to explain sexually graphic material. >>

The example was a thong bikini, wasn't it? That's not graphic sex worthy of
explanation.

When my kids came upon a scene of kissing, or two people in bed, they never
took note or cared. They ignored it like they ignored the talkiing-heads
scenes, totally. They paid attention to scenes with dogs and kids and trains
and car chases and special effects, or physical comedy, or pretty scenery.

So because my kids have not been run out of the room for R rated movies, not
have we said "don't even WATCH that movie, the main characters fall in love
and go into a room alone together with the film crew where they are filmed in
artsy profile!!!" THEN, because of that, I can say that kids aren't likely to
ask why the man is doing what he's doing, etc.

IF they asked, I would tell them in kid terms. It's not that difficult to
say "There are things adults do that kids think are gross, but when you're an
adult you'll feel differently."

Sandra

Cmkerin

Any time TV is mentioned here I have to read because it's probably one of
the issues I'm having the toughest time with for unschooling. This post
remembered me though I don't have very much of a problem with children
seeing much of the sex it's any kind of violence that bothers me. The TV is
so graphic, it really makes me nervous to not control it. I would
appreciate understanding how others see this.

Thanks
joyce k

-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 3:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV and humor



In a message dated 5/27/02 10:03:16 AM, dbatiste7@... writes:

<< When your child
watches these types of movies, do you explain to them why the man does what
he does and why the woman does what she does? I would have a REALLY HARD
TIME
trying to explain sexually graphic material. >>

The example was a thong bikini, wasn't it? That's not graphic sex worthy of
explanation.

When my kids came upon a scene of kissing, or two people in bed, they never
took note or cared. They ignored it like they ignored the talkiing-heads
scenes, totally. They paid attention to scenes with dogs and kids and
trains
and car chases and special effects, or physical comedy, or pretty scenery.

So because my kids have not been run out of the room for R rated movies, not
have we said "don't even WATCH that movie, the main characters fall in love
and go into a room alone together with the film crew where they are filmed
in
artsy profile!!!" THEN, because of that, I can say that kids aren't likely
to
ask why the man is doing what he's doing, etc.

IF they asked, I would tell them in kid terms. It's not that difficult to
say "There are things adults do that kids think are gross, but when you're
an
adult you'll feel differently."

Sandra


~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

michelle_3kds

When my kids watch something sex related, the boys hide their heads
and emit "ugh and ick" noises and ask us to tell them when it's over.

Michelle H

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> When my kids came upon a scene of kissing, or two people in bed,
they never
> took note or cared. They ignored it like they ignored the talkiing-
heads
> scenes, totally. They paid attention to scenes with dogs and kids
and trains
> and car chases and special effects, or physical comedy, or pretty
scenery.
>SNIP<

Fetteroll

on 5/27/02 3:56 PM, Cmkerin at cmkerin@... wrote:

> This post
> remembered me though I don't have very much of a problem with children
> seeing much of the sex it's any kind of violence that bothers me. The TV is
> so graphic, it really makes me nervous to not control it. I would
> appreciate understanding how others see this.

What types of violent shows or movies have your kids asked to watch that
you've said no to?

Do they have the opportunity to watch and decide for themselves that
something makes them uncomfortable?

Do you fear that violence is sort of the preferred state of humans such that
children will be drawn to violence to the point that it overrides the
opposite message they're getting in the home? Why? What evidence have you
seen of it in your children?

It makes sense that watching violence will desensitize people to violence.
But *why* are those people voluntarily choosing to watch violence? Is it
inate? Or is it a response to something else in their lives?

Why would a child in a loving home be drawn to voluntarily becoming
desensitized towards violence towards their fellow human beings?

Might some people be drawn to the power inherent in violence because they
feel powerless themselves? If their own needs are constantly thwarted to
make them conform to someone else's idea of how they should be living their
lives, wouldn't it be natural for them to want the ability to run their own
lives and perhaps get back at the power structure that controls them?

If we empower our kids, then they don't need to look outside themselves for
a means of empowerment. Then for some violence can be just another form of
escapism. The idea of which undoubtedly bothers some people! I can see how
it would be difficult for some to believe that someone without violent
tendences would want to watch violence. I think we discussed this briefly
not too long ago and some people suggested watching violence may satisfy
that primal urge that we know we shouldn't listen to.

I'm a very peaceful person but I love movies like Terminator, Alien, Men in
Black, Independence Day. :-) I adored Xena. I don't like "real" violence,
though, like Bonny and Clyde and In Cold Blood or even Jaws. I think maybe
escapist violence is like enjoying shooting at targets or improving at Tae
Kwon Do. It's possible to appreciate the power without ever wanting to use
it against someone else.

Joyce

Beth Ali

Actually, I have already heard people use this excuse for their "inablility"
to do something!
Beth



The thought has occurred to me lately that people will be doing that with
"ADD" in ten or twenty years. "I'm sorry, I zoned out because I'm ADD."

"I can't pay attention to you, I'm ADD."

"Yes, I forgot to put gas in the car, but I'm ADD."

"The checking account is overdrawn and I forgot to get groceries, but I'm
ADD."


Sandra



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shannon Vale

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the list - just joined three days ago - so I am already in
violation of the suggestion in this group's "mission" as it's written up on
the yahoo site - the one that asks that new members wait for a couple of
weeks before jumping in. Please forgive! But I couldn't resist. I'm afraid I
was one of those brown nosers in school who when the teacher asked a
question, would push my arm straight up in the air and frantically wave it
about, while at the same time my mind would be crying out 'pick me, pick me,
oh pick me" in an attempt at one of those pupil-teacher mind melds. Trust
me, old habits die hard - when Joyce asked for others' opinions on
sex/violence and the kidlets watching it on tv, my arm shot straight up.

I've always felt that curtailing our children's viewing habits, whether it
be movies, tvs or computer games, looks and smells a lot like censorship.
IMO, the evils that have and continue to occur in the name of censorship
weigh much heavier than the evils of the "product" being censored. Added to
that, I hated that my parents were my censors for all those years, and in a
very real sense, curtailors of my education. Children are naturally
inquisitive and I want mine to explore whatever it is they want to explore.
The difference is that I'm able to share it with my kids, either by watching
with them, or talking about the show/movie afterwards, whereas when I was a
kid, I had to sneak around on my own to get to see any of that stuff and my
parents certainly weren't in on any sharing of it with me.

We are all self-regulators (or we should be)...it's a good life skill to
have, and I don't see any reason why not to have my kids learn it as soon as
they feel ready for it. My kids are 13 and 15, and so far it seems to be
working.

shannon
...and now I'll go and write a wee introduction, which of course should have
come first, but my darned arm shot up too fast.
>
>Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:56:35 -0400
> From: "Cmkerin" <cmkerin@...>
>Subject: RE: Re: TV/sex/violence
>
>Any time TV is mentioned here I have to read because it's probably one of
>the issues I'm having the toughest time with for unschooling. This post
>remembered me though I don't have very much of a problem with children
>seeing much of the sex it's any kind of violence that bothers me. The TV
>is
>so graphic, it really makes me nervous to not control it. I would
>appreciate understanding how others see this.
>
>Thanks
>joyce k


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In a message dated 5/27/2002 4:10:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
blali@... writes:


> Actually, I have already heard people use this excuse for their "inablility"
> to do something!
> Beth
>
>
>
> The thought has occurred to me lately that people will be doing that with
> "ADD" in ten or twenty years. "I'm sorry, I zoned out because I'm ADD."

Three little girls, playing in our swimming pool. I was lifeguarding. One
wouldn't "play right" -- meaning she'd agree to the rules for playing Marco
Polo, but then she wouldn't follow them. The other two finally got tired of
it and told her to stop cheating. She said, and I quote exactly: "You can't
blame me, I have ADD and that means I'm special needs and I can't help what I
do."

She's actually a nice kid, most of the time. She was just being a bit ornery
and mishevious that day. But it made me REALLY sad to hear her say that. The
other two girls are homeschoolers and she isn't. They didn't know what to say
- just let it pass by them and went on to play something completely
different.

That was last summer - they haven't played with her during the whole school
year. I don't know if she'll be around again when school is out or if they
just didn't click anymore.

--pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

michelle_3kds

How sad to be so defined and constrained by a label. Public schools
are so ready to categorize... a misguided attempt that was originally
intended to "help",but with all the beaurocracy that goes along with
a publicly funded system, inevitably degrades into rote
meaninglessness.

Michelle H

>
> Three little girls, playing in our swimming pool. I was
lifeguarding. One
> wouldn't "play right" -- meaning she'd agree to the rules for
playing Marco
> Polo, but then she wouldn't follow them. The other two finally got
tired of
> it and told her to stop cheating. She said, and I quote
exactly: "You can't
> blame me, I have ADD and that means I'm special needs and I can't
help what I
> do."
>
> --pam
>
>
>

rumpleteasermom

I'm, sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough. I was extrapolating the
two things out to the extremes to explain MY position better. So it
isn't porn vs. a fistfight. It is graphic sex (in the context of the
movie) vs. seeing people torn apart, beaten to death or blood spurting
around everywhere solely as the point of the movie (gratuitously).
Porn is a category all to itself and can include lots of violence too,
but the thing about porn is that it exists soelly for the sex, I guess
in the same way many violent movies exist purley for the violence. So
maybe I'm not compare the extreme form fairly?

But to use your example, *why* is a girl in a thong worse that a
person kicking another?

Bridget


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., dbatiste7@a... wrote:

>
> Bridget,
> First of all, please don't take my post as being offensive. I am
merely going
> to post my thought on the whole thing. Okay?! :)
>
> You would rather let your child watch a movie with "graphic sex
scenes"
> (porn) than gratuitous violence...well I don't call a movie that has
a couple
> of punches that lend a bloody lip gratuitous violence. Neither do I
see a
> kick that violent either. But graphic sex scenes...that is a little
more than
> "I" care to explain. I guess that is the reason why I say no. When
your child
> watches these types of movies, do you explain to them why the man
does what
> he does and why the woman does what she does? I would have a REALLY
HARD TIME
> trying to explain sexually graphic material.
>
> And again honey, you know as well as I do that everyone has their
level of
> belief. So, thanks for allowing me to share.
>
> Dee
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

But, see, that's exactly what I don't understand! Why is watching
something natural, loving and beautiful between two people (or even
something just lustily enjoyable) so much worse than seeing someone
blown away or eaten or beaten up?

I can understand people who avoid both with their children, but not
one people who avoid the sex but not the violence. I really am just
curious about the reasoning behind it. If that is what you do, I'm
not trying to tell you to do otherwise, I just want to know WHY you do
it because I don't understand.

Bridget



--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "michelle_3kds" <mvhunt1@b...> wrote:
> When my kids watch something sex related, the boys hide their heads
> and emit "ugh and ick" noises and ask us to tell them when it's
over.
>

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:

>
> It makes sense that watching violence will desensitize people to
violence.
> But *why* are those people voluntarily choosing to watch violence?
Is it
> inate? Or is it a response to something else in their lives?

I can't speak for the rest of the world but for me, I know that when I
start watching a lot of violent movies, it means the stress level in
my life is too high. When I'm ill or stressed, I watched a lot of Die
Hard, Leathal Weapon type movies. They have not besensitized me to
actual violence. I still cringe when the there is something on the
news. I don't have any urges to play with guns or knives. And I
never have an urge to hit anyone no matter how frustrated I am with
them.

I came to the conclusion years ago, that I use the movies as an
excape. Sort of living vicariously through Bruce Willis and Mel
Gibson, if you will.

One thing I have noticed this year though: Our exchange student
laughs at parts of the movie that I find laughter an inappropriate
response to. I've decided that it has something to do with cultural
differences, but we haven't quite figured out what in our respective
cultures makes some things funny to him and not to me and vice versa.

Bridget