Intro and UNSCHOOLING question
forumtate
Quick intro: I'm mainly a lurker just now researching and
deciding about h-schooling or school-building schooling. My son is
only going to be 3 this year, so I obviously have some time to
decide. I already know I do NOT want him to go to preschool, which
is a strange thing in this neighborhood, apparently. That is what
started me on this information-gathering quest. =) I guess we
unschool already, as he has learned his ABC's, counting to 20,
colors, shapes, etc as well as some Spanish just by playing and
reading books and watching TV and such. My question is about the
comment below:
and guess prices with her and then look at the price tags.<<<
How come going to the store and guessing at tags is ok but
"making" a game which I'm not even sure what that
entails is not
unschooling? I mean, if a child is interested in the artsy-crafty
part of making a game, which I am imagining will be cutting and
pasting things with construction paper or maybe setting up the
playroom or kitchen or whatever in a game-show fashion, why is that
not valid? Just curious.
If you say you're an "unschooler," do you have to NEVER
pick up pen
and paper or whatever? Writing something down or doing anything
organized or scheduled is not unschooling? I just thought U-S was
more a mindset of "we're not going to follow anyone
else's schedule,
curriculum, etc " or we don't believe you have to learn XYZ
by a
certain time or even EVER! Would you care to elaborate to a
"newbie-
lurker" ? TIA!
TATE
=o)
deciding about h-schooling or school-building schooling. My son is
only going to be 3 this year, so I obviously have some time to
decide. I already know I do NOT want him to go to preschool, which
is a strange thing in this neighborhood, apparently. That is what
started me on this information-gathering quest. =) I guess we
unschool already, as he has learned his ABC's, counting to 20,
colors, shapes, etc as well as some Spanish just by playing and
reading books and watching TV and such. My question is about the
comment below:
>>>Making a game for her would still be "doing school." Why not justturn the TV on and watch the Price is Right??? Or go to the mall
and guess prices with her and then look at the price tags.<<<
How come going to the store and guessing at tags is ok but
"making" a game which I'm not even sure what that
entails is not
unschooling? I mean, if a child is interested in the artsy-crafty
part of making a game, which I am imagining will be cutting and
pasting things with construction paper or maybe setting up the
playroom or kitchen or whatever in a game-show fashion, why is that
not valid? Just curious.
If you say you're an "unschooler," do you have to NEVER
pick up pen
and paper or whatever? Writing something down or doing anything
organized or scheduled is not unschooling? I just thought U-S was
more a mindset of "we're not going to follow anyone
else's schedule,
curriculum, etc " or we don't believe you have to learn XYZ
by a
certain time or even EVER! Would you care to elaborate to a
"newbie-
lurker" ? TIA!
TATE
=o)
Fetteroll
on 5/21/02 4:22 PM, forumtate at momtate@... wrote:
the option of saying no thanks to can be unschooling. But it's why the
parent is offering that activity over another activity that determines
whether it's unschooling or not.
If a parent is still of the mindset that math must be taught, then going to
the trouble of making up a fun game that involves math more than likely has
"math mastery" behind it as a motive. So it's just helpful in terms of
"getting" unschooling to suggest that people trying to understand
unschooling not do such things. It's a whole lot better for such a parent to
go out into the world and get used to seeing math in its wild state. The
math involved in real things with real prices that reflect real social and
economic processes in the real world is more meaningful -- because the
numbers are in their meaningful context -- than made up prices. It's the
difference between a child adding 27+14 on paper and a child having $27 and
getting $14 for a big chore and figuring out if she has enough money for
that game she wants to buy.
So the suggestion was mostly as a way of breaking that mindset of needing to
do something artificial to get the child from where they are to where you
want them to be.
living life? Then that's the type of thing that unschooled kids will be
doing if they want to, or asking for help doing if they need to.
An individual child may need organization or schedules to feel comfortable
with how the day runs just because that's part of their personality.
But organization and schedules aren't necessary for learning. That's the
type of thinking it's helpful to break out of when trying to get
unschooling.
Joyce
> How come going to the store and guessing at tags is ok butIt's not so much the what but the why. Just about any activity a child has
> "making" a game which I'm not even sure what that
> entails is not
> unschooling?
the option of saying no thanks to can be unschooling. But it's why the
parent is offering that activity over another activity that determines
whether it's unschooling or not.
If a parent is still of the mindset that math must be taught, then going to
the trouble of making up a fun game that involves math more than likely has
"math mastery" behind it as a motive. So it's just helpful in terms of
"getting" unschooling to suggest that people trying to understand
unschooling not do such things. It's a whole lot better for such a parent to
go out into the world and get used to seeing math in its wild state. The
math involved in real things with real prices that reflect real social and
economic processes in the real world is more meaningful -- because the
numbers are in their meaningful context -- than made up prices. It's the
difference between a child adding 27+14 on paper and a child having $27 and
getting $14 for a big chore and figuring out if she has enough money for
that game she wants to buy.
So the suggestion was mostly as a way of breaking that mindset of needing to
do something artificial to get the child from where they are to where you
want them to be.
> If you say you're an "unschooler," do you have to NEVERDo you organize and pick up paper and pen for yourself in the process of
> pick up pen
> and paper or whatever? Writing something down or doing anything
> organized or scheduled is not unschooling?
living life? Then that's the type of thing that unschooled kids will be
doing if they want to, or asking for help doing if they need to.
An individual child may need organization or schedules to feel comfortable
with how the day runs just because that's part of their personality.
But organization and schedules aren't necessary for learning. That's the
type of thinking it's helpful to break out of when trying to get
unschooling.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/02 2:24:17 PM, momtate@... writes:
<< I guess we
unschool already, as he has learned his ABC's, counting to 20,
colors, shapes, etc… as well as some Spanish just by playing and
reading books and watching TV and such. >>
Any kid with sufficient exposure would learn those, so it's not "unschooling"
that causes toddlers to learn, it's being human that causes toddlers to learn.
<<How come going to the store and guessing at tags is ok but
"making" a game – which I'm not even sure what that
entails – is not
unschooling? >>
Making a game which was created for the purpose of something educational to
do is a little like drawing a picture of a sunset with crayons, never looking
away from that paper, no matter what glorious REAL sunset is unfolding right
there in the real sky if you just look up from that paper.
When people are learning how to get away from school and schooling and
teaching and ideas about scholarly education, they need to get AWAY from
it--180 degrees, not five degrees. If people play an educational game and
their kids learn the material, the parents and kids might then believe that
the game was necessary for that learning, and will look for another
educational game instead of just being alive in the world where the same
information exists in other forms.
We have educational games, but they're just mixed in with any old games and
puzzles. We haven't made the distinction between "educational" and "fun,"
and therefor at our house there is no distinction. At first this probably
seems like blatant nonsense, but when you get more into unschooling you'll
understand it.
<<If you say you're an "unschooler," do you have to NEVER
pick up pen and paper or whatever? >>
No, that's not a good guess. And "You never use books!?" is not a good guess
either.
There is picking up pen and paper, and there is picking up pen and paper in a
schoolish or teacherly fashion.
It's not the materials as much as it is the philosophy and belief.
<<Writing something down or doing anything
organized or scheduled is not unschooling?>>
No. But if you organize and schedule your life in a schoolish way it's not
unschooling.
<<I just thought U-S was more a mindset of "we're not going to follow anyone
else's schedule, curriculum, etc…" >>
If you're following any curriculum at all, you'll be missing the happy
unfolding of real life. If you schedule so carefully that you can't change
your schedule when something really cool happens or you pass by a folk
festival or you get invited last-minute to see a magician, that schedule
could be detrimental.
Sandra
<< I guess we
unschool already, as he has learned his ABC's, counting to 20,
colors, shapes, etc… as well as some Spanish just by playing and
reading books and watching TV and such. >>
Any kid with sufficient exposure would learn those, so it's not "unschooling"
that causes toddlers to learn, it's being human that causes toddlers to learn.
<<How come going to the store and guessing at tags is ok but
"making" a game – which I'm not even sure what that
entails – is not
unschooling? >>
Making a game which was created for the purpose of something educational to
do is a little like drawing a picture of a sunset with crayons, never looking
away from that paper, no matter what glorious REAL sunset is unfolding right
there in the real sky if you just look up from that paper.
When people are learning how to get away from school and schooling and
teaching and ideas about scholarly education, they need to get AWAY from
it--180 degrees, not five degrees. If people play an educational game and
their kids learn the material, the parents and kids might then believe that
the game was necessary for that learning, and will look for another
educational game instead of just being alive in the world where the same
information exists in other forms.
We have educational games, but they're just mixed in with any old games and
puzzles. We haven't made the distinction between "educational" and "fun,"
and therefor at our house there is no distinction. At first this probably
seems like blatant nonsense, but when you get more into unschooling you'll
understand it.
<<If you say you're an "unschooler," do you have to NEVER
pick up pen and paper or whatever? >>
No, that's not a good guess. And "You never use books!?" is not a good guess
either.
There is picking up pen and paper, and there is picking up pen and paper in a
schoolish or teacherly fashion.
It's not the materials as much as it is the philosophy and belief.
<<Writing something down or doing anything
organized or scheduled is not unschooling?>>
No. But if you organize and schedule your life in a schoolish way it's not
unschooling.
<<I just thought U-S was more a mindset of "we're not going to follow anyone
else's schedule, curriculum, etc…" >>
If you're following any curriculum at all, you'll be missing the happy
unfolding of real life. If you schedule so carefully that you can't change
your schedule when something really cool happens or you pass by a folk
festival or you get invited last-minute to see a magician, that schedule
could be detrimental.
Sandra
[email protected]
<<When people are learning how to get away from school and schooling and
teaching and ideas about scholarly education, they need to get AWAY from
it--180 degrees, not five degrees>>
This is what we did (looking back). For about the last 8months, we (I)
completely avoided anything remotely schoolish and spent alot of time doing
the "junk" (not my word) things. Watching TV, barbies, Tiger beat magazines,
Fluff stuff. Emily has started to become less intertested in them and more
into quality. Not quality things as in Educational, but as in value, desire
to share, things that make her feel like she has accomplshed things.
OK, Max is really bored and I neeed to go pay attention to him. He's
shrieking..
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
teaching and ideas about scholarly education, they need to get AWAY from
it--180 degrees, not five degrees>>
This is what we did (looking back). For about the last 8months, we (I)
completely avoided anything remotely schoolish and spent alot of time doing
the "junk" (not my word) things. Watching TV, barbies, Tiger beat magazines,
Fluff stuff. Emily has started to become less intertested in them and more
into quality. Not quality things as in Educational, but as in value, desire
to share, things that make her feel like she has accomplshed things.
OK, Max is really bored and I neeed to go pay attention to him. He's
shrieking..
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein