joyberryjoy

OK we'll be unschooling starting this fall, when I'll be finally a
s/wahm mom again after years of school and work. My son is 8 and
while he is a natural learner and thinker he gets "bored" easily unless
1) someone is completely immersed in play with him that he REALLY
likes--like legos or pokemon card game
2) he's on the computer (which I want to limit, and do so)or watching
TV which we don't have
3) he's playing with friends.
4) he's outside.

Now I always accepted this behavior b/c I was very attachment oriented
esp. in the first few yrs when he was nursing, co-sleeping, etc. It
didn't matter that he was constantly needing me to distract him b/c
after all that was normal. Now tho he rarely plays alone, spends
little time in his room (which has ALL kinds of science stuff, board
games, hundreds of books, several cool educational electronic gadgets,
lego, playmobil, and tinkertoy "worlds",etc.). Maybe this won't be an
issue when we start u-s; perhaps he lacks that kind of drive b/c of
being in school but it has always seemed to be a part of his
personality. He's not clingy, rather very very active, and exciting
to be with, but just not likely to "get into something" on his own.

I'll have a new baby after all these years within 2 months of
beginning u-s and am just trying to find hope that he and I won't be
miserable in the postpartum period where I'm not up and going enough
to get the baby in the sling and just go on the type of
nature/expedition type advantures we would really both enjoy more than
being in the house, and which I plan to use for science, ecology,
physics, math, etc. etc. Also I'll be analyzing data from a huge
research project on attachment parenting in N. America I've been doing
for the last couple of years, and which has to have work done on it so
I can get more grants to stay home longer than a year.

Ideas? Words of encouragement or honesty from similarly-situated
parents of "I'm bored" kids?

Thanks

Joy
"Childhood decides."--Jean-Paul Sartre

Fetteroll

on 5/21/02 4:15 PM, joyberryjoy at joyberryjoy@... wrote:

> he gets "bored" easily unless
> 1) someone is completely immersed in play with him that he REALLY
> likes--like legos or pokemon card game

It sounds like it's part of his personality.

Do you take out the "science stuff, board games, hundreds of books, several
cool educational electronic gadgets, lego, playmobil, and tinkertoy
"worlds",etc." to do on your own? If not, is it reasonable to expect him to?

My daughter is much like that. Most of the enjoyment comes not from the
things but from sharing it with someone else. (I suspect that's why you can
often find unopened kids at garage sales. Not purely because school has
sucked any enjoyment out of anything that looks educational, or because they
lack the imagination to play with them but because they don't have a parent
to share the adventure and discovery with.)

If you loved spending time doing things with your husband what would your
thoughts towards him be if he were hoping you could learn to do things on
your own?

Joyce

Fetteroll

on 5/21/02 4:15 PM, joyberryjoy at joyberryjoy@... wrote:

> 2) he's on the computer (which I want to limit, and do so)or watching
> TV which we don't have

Oops, forgot that part.

Why do you want to limit it?

If he were as involved with Legos or books as much as he is with computers
(or would be with TV), would you limit those?

Even if you thought he needed some variety in his life, would you limit the
books and Legos to so many hours per day or would you offer something
better?

Why is it good and brings a smile to most parents' faces if a child is
totally engrossed in Legos or a book but bad and a source of frustration
when they're equally engrossed in a computer program?

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/21/02 2:16:40 PM, joyberryjoy@... writes:

<< the type of
nature/expedition type advantures we would really both enjoy more than
being in the house, and which I plan to use for science, ecology,
physics, math, etc. etc. >>

Try not to "use" things for science, physics, etc. Try to learn to be, and
to see learning in all kinds of things. Even if you never ever go on an
expedition, those topics apply to things in the home too.

If he needs input, and if you limit computer and TV to try to make boring
things more interesting, and if you have a new baby (which is FAMOUSLY a
factor in older kids feeling needy), I think you're handicapping your
situation severely and unnecessarily.

If you let him have at the computer and TV all he wants to, you can spend
more happy hours with the baby, he can spend more happy hours getting input
(even very useful science, ecology, physics, math, etc. etc.), and you can,
if you want to, worry less about how he will be amused (and intrigued, and
mesmerized, and excited, and emotionally touched).

Sandra

joyberryjoy

Joyce said:
> It sounds like it's part of his personality.

I agree with that.

> Do you take out the "science stuff, board games, hundreds of books,
several
> cool educational electronic gadgets, lego, playmobil, and tinkertoy
> "worlds",etc." to do on your own? If not, is it reasonable to expect
him to?

Well, if I had begged for and chosen them, I might! :P
I do see what you mean, in general. But remember, they are the things
he has chosen. I mentioned them mostly to say it's NOT a matter of
him not having lots of quality resources by way of materials.

>
> My daughter is much like that. Most of the enjoyment comes not from the
> things but from sharing it with someone else.
>
> If you loved spending time doing things with your husband what would
your
> thoughts towards him be if he were hoping you could learn to do
things on your own?

Well, look, I'm all about spending lots of time with my son...I hardly
think I'd be gung-ho about home/unschooling if not! That's really not
the point, tho I understand there are lots of people who have those
feelings. I'm not one of them--I'm excited by being with my son and
most of the time we get along great bouncing ideas off each other and
going on adventures, real and imagined. But I've read (and seen in my
own life) kids who were more likely to get engrossed in projects on
their own, or even *somewhat* on their own. And I know my son is on
the far end of the spectrum, which as you mentioned is likely to be a
part of his personality (a good one in my mind--being attached to
people is much better than to things!) What I am looking for is not a
scolding about "how would I feel if..." b/c i know I'm being a great
mom already...I just want to know HOW other parents of similar kids
made the transition to self-directed learning...how the first few
months of unschooling went if so...as I said we don't have a TV and it
is important to me to limit video/computer usage, so I can't just "let
him get sick of vegging out"...but I also don't want to become
frustrated by the constant "I'm bored" like a mantra, particularly
when a new baby will have a physical need for my attention for a
while. This post is about wanting positive ideas to help us both in
this transition, from parents who have been in "that boat".

Much love,
Joy

joyberryjoy

SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/21/02 2:16:40 PM, joyberryjoy@y... writes:
>
> << the type of
> nature/expedition type advantures we would really both enjoy more than
> being in the house, and which I plan to use for science, ecology,
> physics, math, etc. etc. >>
>
> Try not to "use" things for science, physics, etc. Try to learn to
be, and
> to see learning in all kinds of things. Even if you never ever go
on an
> expedition, those topics apply to things in the home too.

Well, you know, this is what works for us. I've been his mom and
primary teacher for 8 years now and have developed our own
life-learning styles in response to his desires and excitement, so I'm
not concerned about changing that--I already know what works WELL with
him and what he REALLY enjoys and where he has his "ecstatic moments".
I do see learning in all kinds of things. This in particular is one
that touches him deeply.
>
> If he needs input, and if you limit computer and TV to try to make
boring
> things more interesting, and if you have a new baby (which is
FAMOUSLY a
> factor in older kids feeling needy), I think you're handicapping your
> situation severely and unnecessarily.
>
> If you let him have at the computer and TV all he wants to, you can
spend
> more happy hours with the baby, he can spend more happy hours
getting input
> (even very useful science, ecology, physics, math, etc. etc.), and
you can,
> if you want to, worry less about how he will be amused (and
intrigued, and
> mesmerized, and excited, and emotionally touched).

I appreciate your input but I have spent quite a bit of time learning
about the research on the biochemical reaction to passive (esp. TV)
electronic media and my mind is made up on that. Furthermore I have
seen his reaction after exposure to a lot of tv and
computer...regardless of what the edu content is, his response has
shown me as an in-tune mom that less is better for us. Bringing in a
TV after 8 yrs of not having one b/c I am approaching a situation
where there is any possibility that he'll already be getting a bit
less attention or stimulation is not a possibility I would even consider.

Emotionally touched? I'm scratching my head on that one. I wouldn't
tell anybody else for whom this makes sense not to use it, but in my
family we don't get our emotional needs met by electronic equipment.

Anybody else have some ideas/experience?

Joy
"Childhood decides."--Jean-Paul Sartre

Nora or Devereaux Cannon

This is not at all philosophical or steeped in any "true faith"
about educating people, but a practical response.

In every room that we all routinely occupy (as in, ignore the
guest bedroom), I keep a kid's spot. In the kitchen, it is
filled with snack making stuff; in the den, it has games and
toys; in the dining room it has a telescope (great view) and a
tea set. That's true at the moment, but the items rotate. I
fished out a field guide to birds to put in the dining room this
morning (same great view). Madam has many wonderful,
educational, cool, (cheesy) toys, but my job is to make sure they
are scattered in front of her when otherwise she might miss the
connection. Her "treasure toys" stay in her room, but everything
else rotates around the house so there is always something new to
think about. The month the microscope spent in the kitchen was
an iffy decision, but let your conscience be your guide.



----- Original Message -----
From: "joyberryjoy" <joyberryjoy@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:23 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: my biggest concern is him not
being able to amuse himself much!


| Joyce said:
| > It sounds like it's part of his personality.
|
| I agree with that.
|
| > Do you take out the "science stuff, board games, hundreds of
books,
| several
| > cool educational electronic gadgets, lego, playmobil, and
tinkertoy
| > "worlds",etc." to do on your own? If not, is it reasonable to
expect
| him to?
|
| Well, if I had begged for and chosen them, I might! :P
| I do see what you mean, in general. But remember, they are the
things
| he has chosen. I mentioned them mostly to say it's NOT a
matter of
| him not having lots of quality resources by way of materials.
|
| >
| > My daughter is much like that. Most of the enjoyment comes
not from the
| > things but from sharing it with someone else.
| >
| > If you loved spending time doing things with your husband
what would
| your
| > thoughts towards him be if he were hoping you could learn to
do
| things on your own?
|
| Well, look, I'm all about spending lots of time with my son...I
hardly
| think I'd be gung-ho about home/unschooling if not! That's
really not
| the point, tho I understand there are lots of people who have
those
| feelings. I'm not one of them--I'm excited by being with my
son and
| most of the time we get along great bouncing ideas off each
other and
| going on adventures, real and imagined. But I've read (and
seen in my
| own life) kids who were more likely to get engrossed in
projects on
| their own, or even *somewhat* on their own. And I know my son
is on
| the far end of the spectrum, which as you mentioned is likely
to be a
| part of his personality (a good one in my mind--being attached
to
| people is much better than to things!) What I am looking for
is not a
| scolding about "how would I feel if..." b/c i know I'm being a
great
| mom already...I just want to know HOW other parents of similar
kids
| made the transition to self-directed learning...how the first
few
| months of unschooling went if so...as I said we don't have a TV
and it
| is important to me to limit video/computer usage, so I can't
just "let
| him get sick of vegging out"...but I also don't want to become
| frustrated by the constant "I'm bored" like a mantra,
particularly
| when a new baby will have a physical need for my attention for
a
| while. This post is about wanting positive ideas to help us
both in
| this transition, from parents who have been in "that boat".
|
| Much love,
| Joy
|
|
|
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|

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/21/02 4:26:03 PM, joyberryjoy@... writes:

<< I mentioned them mostly to say it's NOT a matter of
him not having lots of quality resources by way of materials.
>>

Although kids will use old stuff sometimes, every day can use some new stuff,
too.

New Lego, etc., is too expensive for daily use.
TV/video can be new daily.

<<how the first few
months of unschooling went if so...as I said we don't have a TV and it
is important to me to limit video/computer usage, so I can't just "let
him get sick of vegging out"..>>

Is that a quote from someone here? The "vegging out" quote? Because I don't
think watching videos is vegging out.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/21/02 4:39:34 PM, joyberryjoy@... writes:

<< Emotionally touched? I'm scratching my head on that one. I wouldn't
tell anybody else for whom this makes sense not to use it, but in my
family we don't get our emotional needs met by electronic equipment. >>

Music?
Movies?

You have no recorded music? You never see movies?
You don't watch Shakespeare plays on video?

<<
Well, you know, this is what works for us. I've been his mom and
primary teacher for 8 years now and have developed our own
life-learning styles in response to his desires and excitement,>>

If you're asking about unschooling (which you might noot have been) don't be
surprised at responses which question your existing beliefs and practices as
expressed by your terminology and the form of your questions.

There are other moms who have been through having a baby and an older child.
There are lots here who remember BEING that older child. That experience and
those memories are probably more useful than "research" in justification of
limiting moving pictures.

The sins and alleged damage TV will do should all apply to computers, too, as
to physical cathode-ray-tube "dangers." Yet moms sit right next to
computers and justify forbidding kids to sit six feet from televisions.

Sandra

Fetteroll

on 5/21/02 6:23 PM, joyberryjoy at joyberryjoy@... wrote:

>> If you loved spending time doing things with your husband what would your
>> thoughts towards him be if he were hoping you could learn to do things on
>> your own?

on 5/21/02 6:23 PM, joyberryjoy at joyberryjoy@... wrote:

> Well, look, I'm all about spending lots of time with my son...I hardly
> think I'd be gung-ho about home/unschooling if not! That's really not
> the point

Sorry, I wrote that in haste and it wasn't the point I was trying to make.

By his actions, your son is telling you what he needs. He needs to be with
you. (And the computer. And TV. And the other things you mentioned he loves
doing on his own.)

When he picked out those kits, I'm sure they probably seemed fun to do on
his own, but in reality they didn't live up to that. But I'm betting if you
did them with him, he'd enjoy them. (Or maybe they're just not as much fun
as they looked and you can sell them on eBay or Half.com and get something
else even better.)

> I just want to know HOW other parents of similar kids
> made the transition to self-directed learning

By making the things they enjoy available, by making ourselves and our time
available, and not limiting them to the things *we* think are productive
uses of time. Making ourselves available *is* harder with a new baby coming.
So I'd help him be part of taking care of the baby and encourage anything he
wants to be part of, even if it would be a lot easier for you to do by
yourself. And make nursing or nap time special times for him.

Joyce

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "joyberryjoy" <joyberryjoy@y...>
wrote:

>
> I appreciate your input but I have spent quite a bit of time
learning
> about the research on the biochemical reaction to passive (esp. TV)
> electronic media and my mind is made up on that. Furthermore I have
> seen his reaction after exposure to a lot of tv and
> computer...regardless of what the edu content is, his response has
> shown me as an in-tune mom that less is better for us.


I too have one who reacts badly to electronic stimuli. We have
disconnected the N64 entirely. His TV time is not strictly limited,
but it is limited. But the computer is a different thing entirely.
Therea re some games that have the same bad effects as the N64 and
some that he can play for hours with no problems. So, his computer
time is limited only by the fact that he is sharing it with 5 other
people.

As a mother of a child who truly has problems with this stuff, I say,
follow your instincts. Only you are there. Just make sure it is your
instincts and his reactions you are following and not some social norm
that you harbor unknowingly.

Bridget

zenmomma *

>>Just make sure it is your instincts and his reactions you are following
>>and not some social norm that you harbor unknowingly.>>

This is a really good point, Bridget. :o)

Life is good.
~Mary



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