another perspective
Lee Roversi
Good morning-
I reading today's post ( which I do often but don't often post ) I was
struck by the strong response to the "Waldorf" method of teaching math -
i.e. using stories, symbols, jewels, etc to represent and work the four
math processes. My three children all have benefited greatly from this way
of presenting math to them - in fact, they "ate it up" and comprehended the
whole picture in a new and fun way. These same children are now 18, 15 and
11 and can surely handle advanced and practical math concepts, but all had
math come alive for them using this (and other) ways of seeing it.
Sometimes we forget that unschooling can mean so many ways of learning and
being and doing - different and perfect for each family/child.
Just another perspective.
In aloha, Lee
North Country Farms
An Organic Family Farm & Tropical B&B Cottages
. . . an eco-tourism destination . . .
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, HI 96754
http://www.northcountryfarms.com
808-828-1513 phone and voice mail
I reading today's post ( which I do often but don't often post ) I was
struck by the strong response to the "Waldorf" method of teaching math -
i.e. using stories, symbols, jewels, etc to represent and work the four
math processes. My three children all have benefited greatly from this way
of presenting math to them - in fact, they "ate it up" and comprehended the
whole picture in a new and fun way. These same children are now 18, 15 and
11 and can surely handle advanced and practical math concepts, but all had
math come alive for them using this (and other) ways of seeing it.
Sometimes we forget that unschooling can mean so many ways of learning and
being and doing - different and perfect for each family/child.
Just another perspective.
In aloha, Lee
North Country Farms
An Organic Family Farm & Tropical B&B Cottages
. . . an eco-tourism destination . . .
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, HI 96754
http://www.northcountryfarms.com
808-828-1513 phone and voice mail
[email protected]
On Mon, 20 May 2002 07:27:51 -1000 Lee Roversi <ncfarms@...>
writes:
school, right? They weren't unschooling ... that's a whole different
paradigm.
I read your web page. :-) Your farm is lovely...
Dar
writes:
> I was struck by the strong response to the "Waldorf" method ofteaching
> math - i.e. using stories, symbols, jewels, etc to represent and workthe
> four math processes. My three children all have benefited greatly fromBut this was all happening as part of their math lessons at a Waldorf
> this way of presenting math to them - in fact, they "ate it up" and
> comprehended the whole picture in a new and fun way.
school, right? They weren't unschooling ... that's a whole different
paradigm.
I read your web page. :-) Your farm is lovely...
Dar
[email protected]
**I reading today's post ( which I do often but don't often post ) I was
struck by the strong response to the "Waldorf" method of teaching math -
i.e. using stories, symbols, jewels, etc to represent and work the four
math processes.**
I'd like to note that my original email was not about Waldorf, nor about
mathematical stories which I think are a good way to make math real. It
wasn't about using jewels or any other manipulative.
The program materials that had me gagging involve the numerals as characters
divorced from any mathematical content. For instance, the cue for 4 x4 is the
sentence "Remember, you have to be 16 to drive a 4 by 4." 6 x 6 is cued with
a visual mnemonic of a pair of thirsty sixes (36).
The whole point was to memorize the "facts" without any mathematical thinking
being involved in any way. I firmly believe such an approach can foster math
phobia - presenting math as something too difficult to be comprehended so it
needs to be just memorized in whatever way works, needs to be changed into
something else. Bah!
I don't believe that's even similar to the Waldorf stories, but if it is then
I would have the same objections.
Deborah
struck by the strong response to the "Waldorf" method of teaching math -
i.e. using stories, symbols, jewels, etc to represent and work the four
math processes.**
I'd like to note that my original email was not about Waldorf, nor about
mathematical stories which I think are a good way to make math real. It
wasn't about using jewels or any other manipulative.
The program materials that had me gagging involve the numerals as characters
divorced from any mathematical content. For instance, the cue for 4 x4 is the
sentence "Remember, you have to be 16 to drive a 4 by 4." 6 x 6 is cued with
a visual mnemonic of a pair of thirsty sixes (36).
The whole point was to memorize the "facts" without any mathematical thinking
being involved in any way. I firmly believe such an approach can foster math
phobia - presenting math as something too difficult to be comprehended so it
needs to be just memorized in whatever way works, needs to be changed into
something else. Bah!
I don't believe that's even similar to the Waldorf stories, but if it is then
I would have the same objections.
Deborah
[email protected]
On Tue, 21 May 2002 13:10:08 EDT dacunefare@... writes:
got sick for (64)"?
IMO, memorizing math facts isn't about mathematical thinking. Knowing how
to find the answers to arithmetic problems is - I could also figure 8 x 8
by knowing that two eights is 16, 16x2 is 32, 32x2 is 64... or by having
played with binary numbers... but mnemonics are great for things you want
to recall quickly. I could figure out what the names of the great lakes
were, with time, or I can say HOMES and have them right away. I make up
my own mnemonics... our license plate is "3 hens before '64" (3HNB464).
I don't think learning about math should be just a collection of
mnemonics, but I think they're awfully useful when memorizing math facts,
for whatever reason.
dar
> The whole point was to memorize the "facts" without any mathematicalthinking
> being involved in any way.Ah, but I love mnemonics! Did they have "I 8 and I 8 and that's what I
got sick for (64)"?
IMO, memorizing math facts isn't about mathematical thinking. Knowing how
to find the answers to arithmetic problems is - I could also figure 8 x 8
by knowing that two eights is 16, 16x2 is 32, 32x2 is 64... or by having
played with binary numbers... but mnemonics are great for things you want
to recall quickly. I could figure out what the names of the great lakes
were, with time, or I can say HOMES and have them right away. I make up
my own mnemonics... our license plate is "3 hens before '64" (3HNB464).
I don't think learning about math should be just a collection of
mnemonics, but I think they're awfully useful when memorizing math facts,
for whatever reason.
dar
Fetteroll
on 5/21/02 1:24 PM, freeform@... at freeform@... wrote:
mnemonics or clever ways of memorizing the tables. She's venting about
people's attitude towards math as something mysterious that must be
memorized.
I think the 2nd most frequently asked question about math and unschooling --
after "How will they learn algebra?" -- is "What about the multiplication
tables?" People don't seem to care whether their kids understand how numbers
work. Perhaps many people don't even realize there is more to math than
memorizing a bunch of meaningless processes. As long as kids have the table
memorized for most people it's irrelevant whether the kids understand that
multiplication is repeated addition. And as far as schools are concerned,
it's difficult to test if something is understood and very easy to test if
something is memorized so that's what schools emphasize. And because schools
emphasize it, most parents assume that's what's most important.
In fact under "Does it work?" the whole argument of how good the program is
is based on it's success in improved speed on timed tests.
If a child wanted to commit the tables to memory, those mnemonic devies
might be helpful if their brains worked that way. It is on the order of
HOMES and ROYGBIV. But how many schools place a huge amount of importance on
how quickly kids can rattle off the Great Lakes or the spectrum. But they do
invest a disproportionate amount of time getting the kids to memorize
various math processes.
Joyce
> IMO, memorizing math facts isn't about mathematical thinking.No, but to most people the times table *is* math. Deb wasn't venting about
mnemonics or clever ways of memorizing the tables. She's venting about
people's attitude towards math as something mysterious that must be
memorized.
I think the 2nd most frequently asked question about math and unschooling --
after "How will they learn algebra?" -- is "What about the multiplication
tables?" People don't seem to care whether their kids understand how numbers
work. Perhaps many people don't even realize there is more to math than
memorizing a bunch of meaningless processes. As long as kids have the table
memorized for most people it's irrelevant whether the kids understand that
multiplication is repeated addition. And as far as schools are concerned,
it's difficult to test if something is understood and very easy to test if
something is memorized so that's what schools emphasize. And because schools
emphasize it, most parents assume that's what's most important.
In fact under "Does it work?" the whole argument of how good the program is
is based on it's success in improved speed on timed tests.
If a child wanted to commit the tables to memory, those mnemonic devies
might be helpful if their brains worked that way. It is on the order of
HOMES and ROYGBIV. But how many schools place a huge amount of importance on
how quickly kids can rattle off the Great Lakes or the spectrum. But they do
invest a disproportionate amount of time getting the kids to memorize
various math processes.
Joyce
[email protected]
**IMO, memorizing math facts isn't about mathematical thinking.
Well, see, I think that the effort of "memorizing facts" is one of the
*prime* causes of math phobia. It puts all the emphasis on the wrong damn
thing.
That's why this program bothered me so much, when I went to check it out
after seeing an ad in a homeschooling magazine. It's an attractively
packaged, clever, alternative approach to the same old stupidity.
I brought it to this list because math learning and how people become phobic
about it was being discussed here, and I thought it one more point for Pam to
ponder.
Deborah in IL
Well, see, I think that the effort of "memorizing facts" is one of the
*prime* causes of math phobia. It puts all the emphasis on the wrong damn
thing.
That's why this program bothered me so much, when I went to check it out
after seeing an ad in a homeschooling magazine. It's an attractively
packaged, clever, alternative approach to the same old stupidity.
I brought it to this list because math learning and how people become phobic
about it was being discussed here, and I thought it one more point for Pam to
ponder.
Deborah in IL
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/2002 3:45:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dacunefare@... writes:
stuff. I'll go back and figure out what this was about. I'm rereading "Math
Power" -- what a GREAT book!!!! I SO wish I'd written it - it really says
almost everything I've wanted to say. The only thing she sort of skims over
is the idea of not expecting kids to be at certain levels at certain ages.
She touches on it - but you can just sense that she doesn't know what to do
with that idea - since she's talking mostly to people with kids in school.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dacunefare@... writes:
> I brought it to this list because math learning and how people become phobicDarn - I wasn't reading for the last few days - got too busy with some other
>
> about it was being discussed here, and I thought it one more point for Pam
> to
> ponder.
stuff. I'll go back and figure out what this was about. I'm rereading "Math
Power" -- what a GREAT book!!!! I SO wish I'd written it - it really says
almost everything I've wanted to say. The only thing she sort of skims over
is the idea of not expecting kids to be at certain levels at certain ages.
She touches on it - but you can just sense that she doesn't know what to do
with that idea - since she's talking mostly to people with kids in school.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Who is the author? Our library has one with that title by Robert Staunton
>
>Darn - I wasn't reading for the last few days - got too busy with some other
>stuff. I'll go back and figure out what this was about. I'm rereading "Math
>Power" -- what a GREAT book!!!!
or something like that.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/2002 8:11:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
leschke@... writes:
by Patricia Clark Kenschaft
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
> >Darn - I wasn't reading for the last few days - got too busy with some<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201772892/qid=1022040388/sr=1-18/ref=sr_1_18/102-8614325-8526502">Math Power : How to Help Your Child Love Math, Even If You Don't</A>
> other
> >stuff. I'll go back and figure out what this was about. I'm rereading
> "Math
> >Power" -- what a GREAT book!!!!
>
> Who is the author? Our library has one with that title by Robert Staunton
> or something like that.
by Patricia Clark Kenschaft
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]