Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Look! A NEW question :)
Alan & Brenda Leonard
I need some help. I've been visiting my parents who are only vaguely
supportive of homeschooling. Unfortunately, they each have almost 50 years
of public/parochial school education experience, and my Dad has a PhD in Ed
Psych, so even though *I* believe in unschooling, I often find myself on
shakey ground when defending my beliefs.
Their latest commentary is on how much Tim misses from school, particularly
in reading. My mother maintains that the discussion after the book is, in
many ways, more important than the book itself. Now, please don't think my
son reads in a vacuum; we discuss books frequently. I ask about books he's
read recently, and he can usually say something coherant on them. Sometimes
the conversation lasts 10 seconds, sometimes we're there for a lot longer.
Am I missing something here? I do realize that much of their problem with
homeschooling relates to problems with change. But I guess I just need some
reassurance that I'm doing the right thing by trusting my child to benefit
from the book, regardless of whether he sat in a class discussion on it or
we talked about it for a long time, or did follow-up activities related to
that book, or anything else! BTW, the child in question is 5, almost 6 now.
(somebody, please, say *something* good about unschooling; I need it!)
brenda
supportive of homeschooling. Unfortunately, they each have almost 50 years
of public/parochial school education experience, and my Dad has a PhD in Ed
Psych, so even though *I* believe in unschooling, I often find myself on
shakey ground when defending my beliefs.
Their latest commentary is on how much Tim misses from school, particularly
in reading. My mother maintains that the discussion after the book is, in
many ways, more important than the book itself. Now, please don't think my
son reads in a vacuum; we discuss books frequently. I ask about books he's
read recently, and he can usually say something coherant on them. Sometimes
the conversation lasts 10 seconds, sometimes we're there for a lot longer.
Am I missing something here? I do realize that much of their problem with
homeschooling relates to problems with change. But I guess I just need some
reassurance that I'm doing the right thing by trusting my child to benefit
from the book, regardless of whether he sat in a class discussion on it or
we talked about it for a long time, or did follow-up activities related to
that book, or anything else! BTW, the child in question is 5, almost 6 now.
(somebody, please, say *something* good about unschooling; I need it!)
brenda
[email protected]
Brenda --- Let me just say that school DISCUSSION of really great books was
very very very frequently enough to completely RUIN my enjoyment of those
books. She's wrong. Just wrong.
--pam
very very very frequently enough to completely RUIN my enjoyment of those
books. She's wrong. Just wrong.
--pam
[email protected]
The few books we read in class as a group sometimes had insipid discussions
afterwards. Often the teacher would tell us a couple of actually-cool
things. But the books I read on my own outside, not for a book report, not
for an assignment, were MUCH more rewarding to me because I chose them, I had
the power to read them twice, skip through, put down and forget, and so those
and only those I had read because I really just wanted to.
From the point of view of a teacher the discussions in a class are the best
part. From the point of view of someone who sees much to fault in the being
in the class in the first place, there's no sense.
IF you were in prison, there are things which would be the coolest thing of
the prison day. But if you're not in a prison, none of that trivia matters.
If you're sick in the hospital, something is going to seem relieving and
sweet which would be a total sicko irritation if you were healthy and at home.
But from the point of view of prison wardens and hospital nurses, they see
those things as kindnesses and special moments.
That's my take on it.
Sandra
afterwards. Often the teacher would tell us a couple of actually-cool
things. But the books I read on my own outside, not for a book report, not
for an assignment, were MUCH more rewarding to me because I chose them, I had
the power to read them twice, skip through, put down and forget, and so those
and only those I had read because I really just wanted to.
From the point of view of a teacher the discussions in a class are the best
part. From the point of view of someone who sees much to fault in the being
in the class in the first place, there's no sense.
IF you were in prison, there are things which would be the coolest thing of
the prison day. But if you're not in a prison, none of that trivia matters.
If you're sick in the hospital, something is going to seem relieving and
sweet which would be a total sicko irritation if you were healthy and at home.
But from the point of view of prison wardens and hospital nurses, they see
those things as kindnesses and special moments.
That's my take on it.
Sandra
[email protected]
Oh--one more thing you can do, especially since your child is young.
You can nod thoughtfully when they tell you things and say "I'll keep that in
mind for sure, and if this isn't working out, we can put him in school."
What are the odds of it not working? But you can reassure them truthfully
that if it does NOT work out, school's still right there, willing to take him.
That will calm them down and they won't be pressuring you moment to moment.
I said that lots of times when Kirby was little. It shushed a lot of
impending criticism. "If it doesn't work out, we'll put him in school."
Sandra
You can nod thoughtfully when they tell you things and say "I'll keep that in
mind for sure, and if this isn't working out, we can put him in school."
What are the odds of it not working? But you can reassure them truthfully
that if it does NOT work out, school's still right there, willing to take him.
That will calm them down and they won't be pressuring you moment to moment.
I said that lots of times when Kirby was little. It shushed a lot of
impending criticism. "If it doesn't work out, we'll put him in school."
Sandra
Cathy Hilde
Hi Brenda,
You will undoubtedly get better information from the "veteran" folks on the
list but I thought Id just throw out a thought of mine.
This is our first year homeschooling. My daughter (7 years old) attended
kindergarten last year. While I realize not all schools are the same, there
was nothing that even remotely resembled book discussion going on in those
classrooms. In fact in the four kindy classes at our school the teacher had
just enough time to read one story a day to the children. Discussion was
impossible because they had to quickly move on to the next subject, project
or hurry and line up for any number of activities that they were shuffled
back and forth from each day. The children did spend more time reading on
their own, but they were given these terribly boring basal, leveled reader
books "I see a crayon, I see a book, I see a desk........I see school". Not
much here to discuss. I think teachers are so preoccupied with getting
everyone up to a certain reading level they just can't afford the luxury of
reading to the children for exposure or pleasure. My son went through
second grade and the situation was somewhat similar except that teachers
did spend more time reading to the kids. But the book discussions were very
orchestrated and lead the children into an almost consensus. Not much
individual thought being considered. So, based on my experience your son is
missing NOTHING.
I watch my daughter who can pick what ever she wants to read, can spend as
much time as she likes in a book, can read it as many times as she likes.
Then she toddles off and digests what interested her the most which usually
takes the form of acting out the story with her dolls or beanie babies. She
rarely "discusses" a book with me. She apparently isn't interested in what
I think and prefers her own opinion.
Head down and one foot in front of the other!
Cathy
----------
From: Alan & Brenda Leonard[SMTP:abtleo@...]
Reply To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Look! A NEW question :)
<<File: ATT00009.htm>>
You will undoubtedly get better information from the "veteran" folks on the
list but I thought Id just throw out a thought of mine.
This is our first year homeschooling. My daughter (7 years old) attended
kindergarten last year. While I realize not all schools are the same, there
was nothing that even remotely resembled book discussion going on in those
classrooms. In fact in the four kindy classes at our school the teacher had
just enough time to read one story a day to the children. Discussion was
impossible because they had to quickly move on to the next subject, project
or hurry and line up for any number of activities that they were shuffled
back and forth from each day. The children did spend more time reading on
their own, but they were given these terribly boring basal, leveled reader
books "I see a crayon, I see a book, I see a desk........I see school". Not
much here to discuss. I think teachers are so preoccupied with getting
everyone up to a certain reading level they just can't afford the luxury of
reading to the children for exposure or pleasure. My son went through
second grade and the situation was somewhat similar except that teachers
did spend more time reading to the kids. But the book discussions were very
orchestrated and lead the children into an almost consensus. Not much
individual thought being considered. So, based on my experience your son is
missing NOTHING.
I watch my daughter who can pick what ever she wants to read, can spend as
much time as she likes in a book, can read it as many times as she likes.
Then she toddles off and digests what interested her the most which usually
takes the form of acting out the story with her dolls or beanie babies. She
rarely "discusses" a book with me. She apparently isn't interested in what
I think and prefers her own opinion.
Head down and one foot in front of the other!
Cathy
----------
From: Alan & Brenda Leonard[SMTP:abtleo@...]
Reply To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Look! A NEW question :)
<<File: ATT00009.htm>>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/9/2002 11:25:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Stop there. You don't have to say how you're going to use her good point.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I said that lots of times when Kirby was little. It shushed a lot ofOr - just say, "Yes, good point."
> impending criticism. "If it doesn't work out, we'll put him in school."
Stop there. You don't have to say how you're going to use her good point.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I won't join a book group because then I really have to read the book in
order to prepare for the discussion afterwards. I have to analyze each
characters actions, Why did they say this? What reasons do the have for
doing that? I have to come up wioth a few profound statements so I don't
appear unthinking.
I can't just enjoy the book, knowing that later I'll be "tested"
Book Clubs are just like those awful discussions in school, or even more
like an oral book report. Not fun.
Why would this be helpful to a young boy?
PS.
He's FIVE!! lol
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
order to prepare for the discussion afterwards. I have to analyze each
characters actions, Why did they say this? What reasons do the have for
doing that? I have to come up wioth a few profound statements so I don't
appear unthinking.
I can't just enjoy the book, knowing that later I'll be "tested"
Book Clubs are just like those awful discussions in school, or even more
like an oral book report. Not fun.
Why would this be helpful to a young boy?
PS.
He's FIVE!! lol
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@e...>
wrote:
discuss. I remember sitting in my parochial school classrooms as a
child and wondering why the he!! we needed to go over what we just
read out loud. I was bored nearly to death by it. When I was in
college, that changed. I had more to say and was more interested in
the various ways others interpreted the books. OOOHHH and maybe that
was part of the problem in school, we weren't discussing various
interpretations, we were discussing the "right" one from the teacher's
POV.
As for getting stuff from books, my girls are 17 and 14. They read a
LOT. They know a lot of stuff that I can't even begin to tell you
where they learned it except to say that it was probably in a book
somewhere!
Bridget
wrote:
> Am I missing something here? I do realize that much of theirproblem with
> homeschooling relates to problems with change. But I guess I justneed some
> reassurance that I'm doing the right thing by trusting my child tobenefit
> from the book, regardless of whether he sat in a class discussion onit or
> we talked about it for a long time, or did follow-up activitiesrelated to
> that book, or anything else! BTW, the child in question is 5,almost 6 now.
>it!)
> (somebody, please, say *something* good about unschooling; I need
>I think the discussion is only important if the reader wants to
> brenda
discuss. I remember sitting in my parochial school classrooms as a
child and wondering why the he!! we needed to go over what we just
read out loud. I was bored nearly to death by it. When I was in
college, that changed. I had more to say and was more interested in
the various ways others interpreted the books. OOOHHH and maybe that
was part of the problem in school, we weren't discussing various
interpretations, we were discussing the "right" one from the teacher's
POV.
As for getting stuff from books, my girls are 17 and 14. They read a
LOT. They know a lot of stuff that I can't even begin to tell you
where they learned it except to say that it was probably in a book
somewhere!
Bridget
Fetteroll
on 5/10/02 12:59 AM, Alan & Brenda Leonard at abtleo@... wrote:
everyone shares similar taste in books and meets once a week to discuss
their favorites. (And some libraries offer those. For older kids of course.
Most 5 yos wouldn't be interested! And if they aren't interested to do it on
their own, forcing it in school it's a sure fire way to ensure they don't
like reading.)
In PRACTICE it's nothing like that. And putting a child in school because
school *theoretically* could be a wonderful place to learn doesn't change
the fact that the vast majority of the time it's sitting through things you
have no interest in learning, or that are too hard, or too easy, or
seemingly have no relevance to the real world. And that's discounting all
the time spent doing nonacademic things!
I'm trying hard, but I can't remember a single book or author I was
introduced to in school that later became a favorite or was even remembered
fondly. There were stories or books I'd read on my own that were reinforced
in school (like having to read something else by the author.)
No, I remembered one. There was an excerpt from this really good translation
of Beowulf in our English Lit text. I wish I'd written the translator's name
down. Pretty sad commentary for 12 years.
I will definitely never read Mill on the Floss by George Eliot. (I "read" it
but eradicated it from my memory other than it was about an old guy and a
little girl and lots of meanness and sadness.) I even had a tough time
watching the Wishbone version of it.
I *might* have picked up that Shakespeare anachronistically included clocks
in Julius Caesar in school, but I'm not entirely certain I didn't read that
in Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare. The discussions were entirely about things
I didn't care to ask questions about (either before or after the
discussions) or about things that I eventually stumbled on on my own or
reinforced things I'd already picked up on my own.
A lot of educators, I think, have a very idealized vision of what actually
goes on in schools. They only see the programmed part of the environment:
what information is provided and how it's structured. They don't see the
teacher and kid factors. None of the great ideal programs work if the
teacher is going through the motions and/or the kids would rather be doing
something else.
And, yes, he will get things out of books all on his own. More importantly
he'll be getting the things that are meaningful to *him* not the things some
expert picked out that he's "supposed" to get out of them. Maybe he'll see
something that captures his imagination in a bug illustration in a book
that's "supposed" to impart information about trees. The tree stuff may pass
through, but the bug may make an important connection for him. But in school
-- though in *theory* the teacher should allow the discussion to go wherever
the children are interested in taking it -- in practice the discussion would
have to stay focused on what the books was "supposed" to be about because
the teacher has specific things she must check off as having covered.
Can you pass on articles and books about home and unschooling to them? Tell
them you'd be happy to talk about your theories on how very different
individualized learning is from mass education after they've done as much
research on the subject as you have.
Joyce
> My mother maintains that the discussion after the book is, inIn THEORY. In theory reading in school should be like a book club where
> many ways, more important than the book itself.
everyone shares similar taste in books and meets once a week to discuss
their favorites. (And some libraries offer those. For older kids of course.
Most 5 yos wouldn't be interested! And if they aren't interested to do it on
their own, forcing it in school it's a sure fire way to ensure they don't
like reading.)
In PRACTICE it's nothing like that. And putting a child in school because
school *theoretically* could be a wonderful place to learn doesn't change
the fact that the vast majority of the time it's sitting through things you
have no interest in learning, or that are too hard, or too easy, or
seemingly have no relevance to the real world. And that's discounting all
the time spent doing nonacademic things!
I'm trying hard, but I can't remember a single book or author I was
introduced to in school that later became a favorite or was even remembered
fondly. There were stories or books I'd read on my own that were reinforced
in school (like having to read something else by the author.)
No, I remembered one. There was an excerpt from this really good translation
of Beowulf in our English Lit text. I wish I'd written the translator's name
down. Pretty sad commentary for 12 years.
I will definitely never read Mill on the Floss by George Eliot. (I "read" it
but eradicated it from my memory other than it was about an old guy and a
little girl and lots of meanness and sadness.) I even had a tough time
watching the Wishbone version of it.
I *might* have picked up that Shakespeare anachronistically included clocks
in Julius Caesar in school, but I'm not entirely certain I didn't read that
in Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare. The discussions were entirely about things
I didn't care to ask questions about (either before or after the
discussions) or about things that I eventually stumbled on on my own or
reinforced things I'd already picked up on my own.
A lot of educators, I think, have a very idealized vision of what actually
goes on in schools. They only see the programmed part of the environment:
what information is provided and how it's structured. They don't see the
teacher and kid factors. None of the great ideal programs work if the
teacher is going through the motions and/or the kids would rather be doing
something else.
And, yes, he will get things out of books all on his own. More importantly
he'll be getting the things that are meaningful to *him* not the things some
expert picked out that he's "supposed" to get out of them. Maybe he'll see
something that captures his imagination in a bug illustration in a book
that's "supposed" to impart information about trees. The tree stuff may pass
through, but the bug may make an important connection for him. But in school
-- though in *theory* the teacher should allow the discussion to go wherever
the children are interested in taking it -- in practice the discussion would
have to stay focused on what the books was "supposed" to be about because
the teacher has specific things she must check off as having covered.
Can you pass on articles and books about home and unschooling to them? Tell
them you'd be happy to talk about your theories on how very different
individualized learning is from mass education after they've done as much
research on the subject as you have.
Joyce
Kinkade
<<A lot of educators, I think, have a very idealized vision of what actually goes on in schools. They only see the programmed part of the environment: what information is provided and how it's structured. They don't see the teacher and kid factors. None of the great ideal programs work if the teacher is going through the motions and/or the kids would rather be doing something else.>>
Ok, this is my take on this...
I have always thought that the ps system was failing our children. I remember when I was in ps and thinking it was a really stupid place to be, except for the friends I got to see every day. As for reading, I remember in 1st grade, we would split up in "groups" and we would read. We would take turns and read out loud. Then after we were done we would "talk" about the story we just read. The story was always so dumb.... Dick and Jane type. So discussions went something like... the teacher saying things about how Dick ran, Jane ran... yippee!!! Then when I got older, and I would see the worst student in the class, the one that always cut up, everyone knew he/she never got a good grade... they always proudly show off their F's. But amazingly the next year, they were in the next grade... how is that possible??? So, I figured, we didn't have to do anything to pass... and wasn't that the goal of the year? Get through this year, so we can be a number higher next year? humph
Well, now I am seeing an interesting situation. Here, in Florida, I assume it is similar in all states. But they (ps head people?) are trying to "improve" schools. In particular, in Duval county they grade the schools, they earn a letter grade, just like the students. If a school gets a bad grade 2 years in a row, parents can request that their child be moved to a better grade school. The teachers are rewarded when their school gets a good grade. How are they graded? Well, they prepare these students all year to pass 1 test. That's the test the grade comes from... Well, my husband is working for the ps system this year. He is not a Certified Teacher nor is he working toward getting one. He is teaching a class called Computer Technology, he is basically teaching the kids what they need to know to pass their Microsoft Certification exams. He has 1 student in his class. This student has not wanted to be there from the beginning of the year. He hates my husband, because my husband thinks he should "try" his best. Last grading period, this student didn't show up in even 1 class, this would mean he didn't do 1 assignment, therefore, no grade. He was at school, my husband would see him. So, when it came time to turn in students grades, my husband gave him an F. Well, the day after report cards came out, this students mother was in my husbands office, yelling at him. She wants the grade changed. Apparently this student is supposed to be in my husbands room, but has "independent study"... Well, after alot of discussion with the mother, vice principle, school guidance counselor, and such... the decision was made to ask my husband to "give" this student a passing grade. He was told that this student has a 1.8 gpa, and he's a senior, been there for 4 years and has been trouble the whole time, so he needs to go. This is what the ps system is really about. They need his gpa to be better so they look better. If they have students fail, they look bad. It counts against the schools stats. Parents might choose to put their child in a different school. Which means the school will get less funding... they receive funding based on the number of students in the school.
I guess, I don't hold much respect for the ps or teachers who claim that it is better. Any of them who claim it is, have either not been in the system long enough to know better, or are deceiving themselves. I know plenty of teachers, who tell me on a regular basis, that they respect me for my choice to homeschool my kids. Many of them know we are unschooling, and say the same things. They see what my kids are doing, and speak to my kids and they see that it works. My oldest daughter loves to read. She recently has fallen in love with CS Lewis, the Chronicles of Narnia. We had our teacher evaluation last week. The teacher looked over my portfolio, then talked with Ashley (my oldest daughter). They spoke about her books she's been reading. Ashley has quite a long list of books read this year. This teacher questioned whether she actually read them. So, she randomly asked her about them. Ashley told her about every one she was asked about clearly. (I was surprised, because I don't "drill" her about the books she reads) Then Ashley went on to tell her about CS Lewis, that he was homeschooled as well, and on and on. She told this teacher of other books he's written that she has yet to read. She knew where he was born, lots of information. All of which she learned on her own. After the discussion, the teacher asked me about it. She wanted to know if I "require" her to know about the authors. (She also read all of the Harry Potter books, and shared her knowledge of JK Rowling) I explained to her that I unschooled, and I require nothing of her. I told her that I simply provide what she wants to know as best as I can. Needless to say, our 1 hour evaluation, turned into nearly 3 hours of her wanting to know "how I did it". She told me both of my girls are considerably above grade level. (In FL they have to be on grade level). At the end of the evaluation, she told me she wished she could teach her students the way I teach my girls. She has a son herself, and even suggested she may consider leaving her job, to stay home and unschool him.
The point of this is, unschooling works. I hope this brings some encouragement to you. I think that if you give your parents time, they will see that it works. I agree that giving them answers like were suggested may work. I have been known to give family similar answers. Then recently when I was questioned by a family member I told them of this story. Then I simply told them, that I would not want my child in a learning environment that puts so little value on the student as this. They (ps) don't care one little bit about our children. Children grow best in families... not institutions.
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok, this is my take on this...
I have always thought that the ps system was failing our children. I remember when I was in ps and thinking it was a really stupid place to be, except for the friends I got to see every day. As for reading, I remember in 1st grade, we would split up in "groups" and we would read. We would take turns and read out loud. Then after we were done we would "talk" about the story we just read. The story was always so dumb.... Dick and Jane type. So discussions went something like... the teacher saying things about how Dick ran, Jane ran... yippee!!! Then when I got older, and I would see the worst student in the class, the one that always cut up, everyone knew he/she never got a good grade... they always proudly show off their F's. But amazingly the next year, they were in the next grade... how is that possible??? So, I figured, we didn't have to do anything to pass... and wasn't that the goal of the year? Get through this year, so we can be a number higher next year? humph
Well, now I am seeing an interesting situation. Here, in Florida, I assume it is similar in all states. But they (ps head people?) are trying to "improve" schools. In particular, in Duval county they grade the schools, they earn a letter grade, just like the students. If a school gets a bad grade 2 years in a row, parents can request that their child be moved to a better grade school. The teachers are rewarded when their school gets a good grade. How are they graded? Well, they prepare these students all year to pass 1 test. That's the test the grade comes from... Well, my husband is working for the ps system this year. He is not a Certified Teacher nor is he working toward getting one. He is teaching a class called Computer Technology, he is basically teaching the kids what they need to know to pass their Microsoft Certification exams. He has 1 student in his class. This student has not wanted to be there from the beginning of the year. He hates my husband, because my husband thinks he should "try" his best. Last grading period, this student didn't show up in even 1 class, this would mean he didn't do 1 assignment, therefore, no grade. He was at school, my husband would see him. So, when it came time to turn in students grades, my husband gave him an F. Well, the day after report cards came out, this students mother was in my husbands office, yelling at him. She wants the grade changed. Apparently this student is supposed to be in my husbands room, but has "independent study"... Well, after alot of discussion with the mother, vice principle, school guidance counselor, and such... the decision was made to ask my husband to "give" this student a passing grade. He was told that this student has a 1.8 gpa, and he's a senior, been there for 4 years and has been trouble the whole time, so he needs to go. This is what the ps system is really about. They need his gpa to be better so they look better. If they have students fail, they look bad. It counts against the schools stats. Parents might choose to put their child in a different school. Which means the school will get less funding... they receive funding based on the number of students in the school.
I guess, I don't hold much respect for the ps or teachers who claim that it is better. Any of them who claim it is, have either not been in the system long enough to know better, or are deceiving themselves. I know plenty of teachers, who tell me on a regular basis, that they respect me for my choice to homeschool my kids. Many of them know we are unschooling, and say the same things. They see what my kids are doing, and speak to my kids and they see that it works. My oldest daughter loves to read. She recently has fallen in love with CS Lewis, the Chronicles of Narnia. We had our teacher evaluation last week. The teacher looked over my portfolio, then talked with Ashley (my oldest daughter). They spoke about her books she's been reading. Ashley has quite a long list of books read this year. This teacher questioned whether she actually read them. So, she randomly asked her about them. Ashley told her about every one she was asked about clearly. (I was surprised, because I don't "drill" her about the books she reads) Then Ashley went on to tell her about CS Lewis, that he was homeschooled as well, and on and on. She told this teacher of other books he's written that she has yet to read. She knew where he was born, lots of information. All of which she learned on her own. After the discussion, the teacher asked me about it. She wanted to know if I "require" her to know about the authors. (She also read all of the Harry Potter books, and shared her knowledge of JK Rowling) I explained to her that I unschooled, and I require nothing of her. I told her that I simply provide what she wants to know as best as I can. Needless to say, our 1 hour evaluation, turned into nearly 3 hours of her wanting to know "how I did it". She told me both of my girls are considerably above grade level. (In FL they have to be on grade level). At the end of the evaluation, she told me she wished she could teach her students the way I teach my girls. She has a son herself, and even suggested she may consider leaving her job, to stay home and unschool him.
The point of this is, unschooling works. I hope this brings some encouragement to you. I think that if you give your parents time, they will see that it works. I agree that giving them answers like were suggested may work. I have been known to give family similar answers. Then recently when I was questioned by a family member I told them of this story. Then I simply told them, that I would not want my child in a learning environment that puts so little value on the student as this. They (ps) don't care one little bit about our children. Children grow best in families... not institutions.
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/10/02 2:25:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
weeks and unschooling since removing my 9yo daughter Megan from school in
February. My mother is supporting me, in her words, but she doesn't really
know my unschooling ways. I told her we are putting together units from
Megan's interests, which is not completely false. She has never really
supported me in most of my adult decisions. When I practiced "attachment
parenting" with my second child, I was blamed for creating a high-needs
child, when in reality the attachment style made life easier for coping with
her temperament. I wish i would have followed my instincts more with my
first, also a highly intense child, and I am finding this unschooling
incredible in terms of the bonding that is happening, like an extension of
attachment parenting. I thought it was just for babies! It makes up for the m
ore detached mothering of her as an infant. At any rate, I have Mom's
"support", she wants to help me with resources, but she wants to make sure I
am not ruining my daughter's education/life. From the beginning, I have told
her that my decision is reversible, and that I can put her back in school "if
it doesn't work out", knowing full well that it would be the absolute last
thing I would ever want to do. So now she is so concerned with scope and
sequence, she doesn't want Megan to "fall behind" if she ever wants to return
to school. She even tries to drill her on multiplication tables regularly, to
make sure we don't have any gaps. I must admit that I still have some
deschooling to do, I still have little panic attacks about making sure she is
wanting to learn all she "needs" to, and keep referring back to a scope book
that I have. Do I try to explain unschooling, knowing that I will meet much
skepticism, or just keep nodding? I would also appreciate any feedback or
online resources for creating our first portfolio for certified teacher
review. How do unschoolers (in Ohio or elsewhere) handle this? I have been
keeping a journal and keeping any evidence of topics covered just for my own
satisfaction, but I have worried how to put together something that's enough,
considering we have less than six months of homeschooling for this year.
Ang
SAHM to
Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> You can nod thoughtfully when they tell you things and say "I'll keep thatThis is my first time posting to the list, I have been reading for a few
> in
> mind for sure, and if this isn't working out, we can put him in school."
>
>
> What are the odds of it not working? But you can reassure them truthfully
> that if it does NOT work out, school's still right there, willing to take
> him.
>
> That will calm them down and they won't be pressuring you moment to moment.
>
> I said that lots of times when Kirby was little. It shushed a lot of
> impending criticism. "If it doesn't work out, we'll put him in school."
>
> Sandra>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
weeks and unschooling since removing my 9yo daughter Megan from school in
February. My mother is supporting me, in her words, but she doesn't really
know my unschooling ways. I told her we are putting together units from
Megan's interests, which is not completely false. She has never really
supported me in most of my adult decisions. When I practiced "attachment
parenting" with my second child, I was blamed for creating a high-needs
child, when in reality the attachment style made life easier for coping with
her temperament. I wish i would have followed my instincts more with my
first, also a highly intense child, and I am finding this unschooling
incredible in terms of the bonding that is happening, like an extension of
attachment parenting. I thought it was just for babies! It makes up for the m
ore detached mothering of her as an infant. At any rate, I have Mom's
"support", she wants to help me with resources, but she wants to make sure I
am not ruining my daughter's education/life. From the beginning, I have told
her that my decision is reversible, and that I can put her back in school "if
it doesn't work out", knowing full well that it would be the absolute last
thing I would ever want to do. So now she is so concerned with scope and
sequence, she doesn't want Megan to "fall behind" if she ever wants to return
to school. She even tries to drill her on multiplication tables regularly, to
make sure we don't have any gaps. I must admit that I still have some
deschooling to do, I still have little panic attacks about making sure she is
wanting to learn all she "needs" to, and keep referring back to a scope book
that I have. Do I try to explain unschooling, knowing that I will meet much
skepticism, or just keep nodding? I would also appreciate any feedback or
online resources for creating our first portfolio for certified teacher
review. How do unschoolers (in Ohio or elsewhere) handle this? I have been
keeping a journal and keeping any evidence of topics covered just for my own
satisfaction, but I have worried how to put together something that's enough,
considering we have less than six months of homeschooling for this year.
Ang
SAHM to
Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joan Wilson
Oh yes, that stimulating book discussion in the K or 1st grade. The one
where the kid wiggles and bugs every one around him/her while the teacher is
reading the book (you know the one that the teacher has to have a weekly
conference with their parents cause the teacher has to stop and talk to 50
times a day) - yeah that one -- anyway, that kid blurts out "It was dumb!".
My son is happy about missing those discussions. Other than that they would
go to the library and the librarian or a parent would read a pre-selected
book and then they would go find a book with the color dot in their reading
level.
At 5, a lot of children don't read on thier own.
Anyway - I like Sandra's suggestion that school is there if you ever need
it. Or you could smile and change the subject.
My son is now 11 and started reading (what he likes) about a year ago. He
was able to read at about 7 (in school) but they took the joy right out of
it by the age of 9.
Good luck,
Joan
Their latest commentary is on how much Tim misses from school,
particularly
in reading. My mother maintains that the discussion after the book is, in
many ways, more important than the book itself. we discuss books
frequently. I ask about books he's
read recently, and he can usually say something coherant on them.
Sometimes
the conversation lasts 10 seconds, sometimes we're there for a lot longer.
Am I missing something here? I do realize that much of their problem with
homeschooling relates to problems with change. But I guess I just need
some
reassurance that I'm doing the right thing by trusting my child to benefit
from the book, regardless of whether he sat in a class discussion on it or
we talked about it for a long time, or did follow-up activities related to
that book, or anything else! BTW, the child in question is 5, almost 6
now.
(somebody, please, say *something* good about unschooling; I need it!)
brenda
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Height: 4567 ft 01234567891011 in
Weight:
Sex: F M
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
where the kid wiggles and bugs every one around him/her while the teacher is
reading the book (you know the one that the teacher has to have a weekly
conference with their parents cause the teacher has to stop and talk to 50
times a day) - yeah that one -- anyway, that kid blurts out "It was dumb!".
My son is happy about missing those discussions. Other than that they would
go to the library and the librarian or a parent would read a pre-selected
book and then they would go find a book with the color dot in their reading
level.
At 5, a lot of children don't read on thier own.
Anyway - I like Sandra's suggestion that school is there if you ever need
it. Or you could smile and change the subject.
My son is now 11 and started reading (what he likes) about a year ago. He
was able to read at about 7 (in school) but they took the joy right out of
it by the age of 9.
Good luck,
Joan
Their latest commentary is on how much Tim misses from school,
particularly
in reading. My mother maintains that the discussion after the book is, in
many ways, more important than the book itself. we discuss books
frequently. I ask about books he's
read recently, and he can usually say something coherant on them.
Sometimes
the conversation lasts 10 seconds, sometimes we're there for a lot longer.
Am I missing something here? I do realize that much of their problem with
homeschooling relates to problems with change. But I guess I just need
some
reassurance that I'm doing the right thing by trusting my child to benefit
from the book, regardless of whether he sat in a class discussion on it or
we talked about it for a long time, or did follow-up activities related to
that book, or anything else! BTW, the child in question is 5, almost 6
now.
(somebody, please, say *something* good about unschooling; I need it!)
brenda
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Height: 4567 ft 01234567891011 in
Weight:
Sex: F M
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
Hi Ang,
I'm in OH too, near Akron to be specific.
My mom is a certified teacher and she does assessments. She will look
at anything that represents what level your child is on. She is
pretty laid back about the whole thing. And that's the key here in
Ohio . . . find an assessor who understands unschooling. I know of
three or four in this area. You could join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oh-homeschool
to find an assessor closer to you. The above is an inclusive Ohio
group, just tell them you are looking for an unschooling friendly
assessor in whatever area you are.
Jut out of curiousity, what other states have laws similar to our? We
have to either do a standardized test (and provide ONLY the composite
score) once a year or have a certified teached look at a portfolio of
work and declare the child sufficient. There's a third option of
anything agreed upon between the super and the parent but not many
people use that.
Bridget
I'm in OH too, near Akron to be specific.
My mom is a certified teacher and she does assessments. She will look
at anything that represents what level your child is on. She is
pretty laid back about the whole thing. And that's the key here in
Ohio . . . find an assessor who understands unschooling. I know of
three or four in this area. You could join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oh-homeschool
to find an assessor closer to you. The above is an inclusive Ohio
group, just tell them you are looking for an unschooling friendly
assessor in whatever area you are.
Jut out of curiousity, what other states have laws similar to our? We
have to either do a standardized test (and provide ONLY the composite
score) once a year or have a certified teached look at a portfolio of
work and declare the child sufficient. There's a third option of
anything agreed upon between the super and the parent but not many
people use that.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., megamom08@a... wrote:
I would also appreciate any
feedback or
> online resources for creating our first portfolio for certified
teacher
> review. How do unschoolers (in Ohio or elsewhere) handle this? I
have been
> keeping a journal and keeping any evidence of topics covered just
for my own
> satisfaction, but I have worried how to put together something
that's enough,
> considering we have less than six months of homeschooling for this
year.
>
>
> Ang
> SAHM to
> Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
> Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
> Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
>
>