zenmomma *

>>If I make an ice cream cone and ask my 17 yo, "Here, do you want this?"
>>she will laugh and then stamp her feet and pretend to throw a little
>>tantrum and say, "NO NO NO" while grabbing for it. It is very funny and an
>>exact re-creation of what SHE really DID used to do when she was just
>>about 3.>>

Oh, Oh, Oh! Memory flooding in! Casey once had a HUGE tantrum (probably at
age 2 or 3) because we offered her chocolate pudding. I guess she thought it
looked gross and wouldn't believe our assertions to the contrary. We put a
spoonful in her mouth while she was open and screaming. She ate the rest of
the bowl. Too coersive? ;-)

Life is good.
~Mary





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rumpleteasermom

Wyndham once, threw up because we offered him a turtle! He didn't
know we meant chocolate/caramel/pecans. He thought we meant an
aquatic critter.

Bridget


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@h...> wrote:

> Oh, Oh, Oh! Memory flooding in! Casey once had a HUGE tantrum
(probably at
> age 2 or 3) because we offered her chocolate pudding. I guess she
thought it
> looked gross and wouldn't believe our assertions to the contrary. We
put a
> spoonful in her mouth while she was open and screaming. She ate the
rest of
> the bowl. Too coersive? ;-)
>
> Life is good.
> ~Mary
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
http://mobile.msn.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/02 5:21:24 PM, Katedavislawfirm@... writes:

<< Moreover, even if we did have ice cream
every day, I don't, personally, think it would be prudent to "allow" him to
have it every day. And I am comfortable with that decision. (And I cannot
even imagine what a judge in a child custody situation would do with this
fact pattern.) (No, wait, I can imagine what a judge would do, and I would
counsel a client to not give a child ice cream every day for breakfast,
unless a doctor said that same was necessary for health reasons.)
>>

The point you're missing is this: Making something freely available is not
the same as "giving" it to the child every day.

We do have ice cream, always. It gets gummy in the box. Because it's no big
deal, the kids only get it out when they actually have a desire for ice
cream, or it's hot and they have company, or they want to make a milk shake.
Because it is not a controlled substance, it is of less value to them than
bread is. If we run out of ice cream, nobody cares. If we run out of bread,
it's worth a trip to the store.

You seem to be suggesting I'm putting myself in legal danger by this. I know
you're wrong. The "prudent" thing is that I have for years provided them
with choices, and they have made some damned good ones.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 7:54:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> The point you're missing is this: Making something freely available is not
> the same as "giving" it to the child every day.
>

I am quite sure you are not speaking to me, as I have not missed that
"point."

Kate Davis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 7:54:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> We do have ice cream, always. It gets gummy in the box. Because it's no
> big
> deal, the kids only get it out when they actually have a desire for ice
> cream, or it's hot and they have company, or they want to make a milk
> shake.
> Because it is not a controlled substance, it is of less value to them than
> bread is. If we run out of ice cream, nobody cares. If we run out of
> bread,
> it's worth a trip to the store.
>

"Julian, do you want ice cream?"

"Yeah."

"Well, do we have it?"

"Yeah."

"Well, where is it?"

"Just give me some you booger-nose butt-hole stick."

Something, somewhere, is not right with the world.

And so I will go and get him the ice cream he so desires.

Kate Davis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Hill

**Inasmuch as TCS has to do with a parent's choice of
parenting styles, this decision is one that I, as a parent must make. I

choose against TCS. And, if I were 3, I am sure that the TCS people
would
applaud me for that decision. **

Good insight, Kate! A little humor and reason help make a dull topic
more bearable for me. Thanks!

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/02 6:05:51 PM, Katedavislawfirm@... writes:

<< "Julian, do you want ice cream?"

"Yeah."

"Well, do we have it?"

"Yeah."

"Well, where is it?"

"Just give me some you booger-nose butt-hole stick."

Something, somewhere, is not right with the world. >>

IS this of the world? Your world?

I wouldn't offer ice cream if I didn't know if there was any.
I wouldn't offer ice cream to another human at rest unless I was about to
have some, or they were guests and it had been a while since I had offered
refreshments.

What was your scenario intended to represent?

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 10:01:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> IS this of the world? Your world?
>
> I wouldn't offer ice cream if I didn't know if there was any.

I knew there was ice cream. I just did not know if it was in the inside
freezer or the outside one. It turned out to be in the outside one. I
helped him to locate it, and to put it into a bowl.

> I wouldn't offer ice cream to another human at rest unless I was about to
> have some, or they were guests and it had been a while since I had offered
> refreshments.

Well, that's you. I offered it to him because it was on my mind, and because
I know he likes it. I happen to not like ice cream. If I waited to offer it
to him until I was going to have some, he'd have to wait a really, really
long time.

>
> What was your scenario intended to represent?

A non-hypothetical situation.

Kate Davis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma *

>>We were not talking about ice cream. We were talking
about Ben and Sue, and Ben was hitting Sue with a baseball bat.>>

Ummm...*I* was talking about ice cream, nothing else. That other guy was
spouting off about TCS. I asked you specifically about your statement
regarding ice cream, tantrums and 3 years olds. It's okay if you don't want
to talk about it, really. But I'm NOT the TCS guy. Really.

Life is good.
~Mary





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[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 10:39:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
zenmomma@... writes:


> >>We were not talking about ice cream. We were talking
> about Ben and Sue, and Ben was hitting Sue with a baseball bat.>>
>
> Ummm...*I* was talking about ice cream, nothing else. That other guy was
> spouting off about TCS. I asked you specifically about your statement
> regarding ice cream, tantrums and 3 years olds. It's okay if you don't want
>
> to talk about it, really. But I'm NOT the TCS guy. Really.
>
> Life is good.
> ~Mary
>

Okay, just so everyone here knows (not that anyone cares, but just to be
*open* about this):

It is now 10:46 P.M. in the Davis household. Julian has already had a bowl
of ice cream (as described in the booger-nose stick-pole post earlier, which
was, sadly, *not* hypothetical).

He now wants aNOTHer bowl of ice cream.

Okay, so NOW I am talking about ice cream.

It is 10:48. (I say this to him, aloud, and he asks "That's why you're gonna
get me some?" and I say to him "No. That's why I'm not.")

He is now sitting on my lap, ice-cream deprived, watching me type, watching
the words form on the screen, and sounding them out.

I do not think that MY decision to refuse to get my son some ice cream at
10:51 at night is such a bad thing.

Am I wrong? (Or am I just lazy?) (Or tired?)

Kate Davis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/02 8:15:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Nothing would be the problem with him having ice cream everyday, except
that
we don't have ice cream every day. Moreover, even if we did have ice cream
every day, I don't, personally, think it would be prudent to "allow" him to
have it every day. And I am comfortable with that decision. >>

Of course you're comfortable with that decision. It was yours to make.

On the other hand, children can feel a huge loss of control over their world
when we make choices like this for them.
Some of us that also feel TCS is totally absurd, DO give our children free
choice over food (among other things).
And the more I step back and give them this free reign, the more I see what a
wonderful way it is to live. My children are aware of what their bodies need.
I've had ice cream in the freezer for an entire week...which in previous
times was unheard of. It would have been eaten in a night, because I was
controlling it's use.
Take away the control and the forbidden object becomes common place, no need
to binge, it will always be available.
My children will choose carrots as quickly as ice cream now. So I know this
works, I know that I don't need to say "no" to ice cream anymore.
Ren

zenmomma *

>>Nothing would be the problem with him having ice cream everyday, except
>>that we don't have ice cream every day.>>

Don't have it in the house? We don't either. Some times it runs out.
Sometimes nobody wants any so I don't pick it up at the store. Or do you
mean you have it, but just don't eat it everyday? And as a policy, health
reasons/nutition/whatever, don't allow the kids access to it everyday
either?

>>Moreover, even if we did have ice cream every day, I don't, personally,
>>think it would be prudent to "allow" him to have it every day.>>

So it's not really about whether it's in the house? It's more about your
firmly held beliefs about nutrition and such then, right? This is not a
criticism, it's me trying to make sure I'm hearing you right.

What I'm wondering, then, is if you think the act of giving your son free
choice each and every morning will then absolutely lead to him making bad
nutrition choices. I ask because many of us here used to have those beliefs.
Someone asked us similar questions, which caused us to reexamine those
beliefs. Some of us even allowed very non-standard (by Parenting magazines)
choices in our young children. Much to our delight, our kids made good
choices even when they weren't forced on them.

You're free to disregard this whole thread and think I'm nuts BTW. I'm not
criticizing you or your family or your choices. I'm just asking some "what
if..." and "what do you think would happen if.." questions.

>>And I am comfortable with that decision.>>

Comfortable talking about it too? Other people might be getting some benefit
from our discussion too. I'd like to keep going :o)

>>(No, wait, I can imagine what a judge would do, and I would counsel a
>>client to not give a child ice cream every day for breakfast, unless a
>>doctor said that same was necessary for health reasons.)>>

I never said to *give* a child ice cream for breakfast every morning. I
merely questioned the need to deny it if asked for. I suggested the idea
that even very young children will tend to make healthy choices when given
the free choice and looked at over a period of time longer than one meal.

>>Also, no, I never said that he threw a tantrum as a result of being
ice-cream-deprived.>>

You said:>> My son (I'll call him "Ben") would just LOVE if I just *advised*
him that he ought not scream and yell just because I won't let him eat ice
cream for breakfast. (Well, at least, not every day.)>>

I guess I got it wrong then. I thought this meant that you won't let your
son choose to eat ice cream for breakfast except on those occassions where
you say yes, have had this discussion with him in the past, and have seen
him yell and scream as a result.

>>And, no, that is not what this thread was about.>>

I CHANGED the thread Kate. That's why it's now called ice cream for
breakfast. I'm not interested in how a TCS person would handle ice cream. I
was just asking you about a comment you made.

>>>Cool! :o) Then let's keep on with this part of the discussion.

Okay. Cool!>>

I keep trying to. But you seem to think I'm a crazed, malicious TCS advocate
and worthy of shushing. Or worse.:-(

Life is good.
~Mary







_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/02 9:13:38 PM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< >>(No, wait, I can imagine what a judge would do, and I would counsel a
>>client to not give a child ice cream every day for breakfast, unless a
>>doctor said that same was necessary for health reasons.)>>

<<I never said to *give* a child ice cream for breakfast every morning. I
merely questioned the need to deny it if asked for. >>

Anyone want to guess the number of times one of my "free-range" children has
had ice cream for breakfast?

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 11:07:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:


> Of course you're comfortable with that decision. It was yours to make.
>
> On the other hand, children can feel a huge loss of control over their
> world
> when we make choices like this for them.
> Some of us that also feel TCS is totally absurd, DO give our children free
> choice over food (among other things).
> And the more I step back and give them this free reign, the more I see what
> a
> wonderful way it is to live. My children are aware of what their bodies
> need.
> I've had ice cream in the freezer for an entire week...which in previous
> times was unheard of. It would have been eaten in a night, because I was
> controlling it's use.
> Take away the control and the forbidden object becomes common place, no
> need
> to binge, it will always be available.
> My children will choose carrots as quickly as ice cream now. So I know this
>
> works, I know that I don't need to say "no" to ice cream anymore.
> Ren
>

My son, at 11:20 p.m., is on his fourth bowl of ice cream.

Maybe the servings are too small.

Yet, I am always reminded of my friend, Linda, who was caught smoking when we
were 14, and whose father thought he would "teach her a lesson" and made her
smoke a whole carton of cigarettes without stopping. She became a chain
smoker and died of lung cancer when she was 26.

Maybe the servings aren't too small.

Then again, maybe ice cream isn't lethal.

Then again, maybe it is.

AAAAAAaaaaaaarghh!!!

Kate Davis, who is thinking that maybe she should just go to sleep and let
someone else (Julian?) run the household.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma *

>>"Just give me some you booger-nose butt-hole stick.">>

Where did this come from, how does it relate to anything and why the
hostility? Geez. Who EVER said their kid acted like that?

I'm sorry, but you are missing the point.

Life is good.
~Mary


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[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 11:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
zenmomma@... writes:


> >>Nothing would be the problem with him having ice cream everyday, except
> >>that we don't have ice cream every day.>>
>
> Don't have it in the house? We don't either. Some times it runs out.
> Sometimes nobody wants any so I don't pick it up at the store. Or do you
> mean you have it, but just don't eat it everyday? And as a policy, health
> reasons/nutition/whatever, don't allow the kids access to it everyday
> either?
>
I meant that we do not, physically, always have it in the house.
Unfortunately, we happened to have it in the house on this night, which, as
chance would have it, is an unschooling ice cream night, much to my chagrin.


> >>Moreover, even if we did have ice cream every day, I don't, personally,
> >>think it would be prudent to "allow" him to have it every day.>>
>
> So it's not really about whether it's in the house? It's more about your
> firmly held beliefs about nutrition and such then, right? This is not a
> criticism, it's me trying to make sure I'm hearing you right.

No, it's really about both. Or so I thought. We are now on bowl number five
(and the servings are getting larger with each bowlful). He didn't want to
eat a "real" dinner, and so I didn't "make" him. He is very happy right now,
eating his FIFTH BOWL OF ICE CREAM. I, on the other hand, am not "happy."
Intrigued, yes. Curious, certainly. Happy? Not on your life.

> What I'm wondering, then, is if you think the act of giving your son free
> choice each and every morning will then absolutely lead to him making bad
> nutrition choices. I ask because many of us here used to have those
> beliefs.
> Someone asked us similar questions, which caused us to reexamine those
> beliefs. Some of us even allowed very non-standard (by Parenting magazines)
>
> choices in our young children. Much to our delight, our kids made good
> choices even when they weren't forced on them.

Yeah, well, maybe tomorrow he'll want five bowls of spinach. (That's a joke.
I don't think spinach is a good thing in high doses -- too much vitamin K
for our family's blood condition.)

> You're free to disregard this whole thread and think I'm nuts BTW. I'm not
> criticizing you or your family or your choices. I'm just asking some "what
> if..." and "what do you think would happen if.." questions.

Well, now I know "what would happen if . . . ." I would be sitting up at
11:33 p.m. describing to people who might or might not care, what it is like
to sit next to a 3 year old little boy eating his fifth bowl of ice cream . .
. .

OH MY GOODNESS -- he just looked at me, burped, and said "I don't want any
more ice cream."

Now he wants a bath.

> >>And I am comfortable with that decision.>>
>
> Comfortable talking about it too? Other people might be getting some
> benefit
> from our discussion too. I'd like to keep going :o)

Me too. But Julian wants a bath.

> >>Also, no, I never said that he threw a tantrum as a result of being
> ice-cream-deprived.>>
>
> You said:>> My son (I'll call him "Ben") would just LOVE if I just
> *advised*
> him that he ought not scream and yell just because I won't let him eat ice
> cream for breakfast. (Well, at least, not every day.)>>
>
> I guess I got it wrong then. I thought this meant that you won't let your
> son choose to eat ice cream for breakfast except on those occasions where
> you say yes, have had this discussion with him in the past, and have seen
> him yell and scream as a result.

My son just yells and screams. He thinks it's fun. And funny. I have been
cursed with a child much like myself. (And, no, I don't really think I've
been "cursed," and yes, I really very much love and appreciate my son, who is
wonderfully ice-cream scented right now.)

> >>And, no, that is not what this thread was about.>>
>
> I CHANGED the thread Kate. That's why it's now called ice cream for
> breakfast. I'm not interested in how a TCS person would handle ice cream. I
>
> was just asking you about a comment you made.

Oh.

>
> >>>Cool! :o) Then let's keep on with this part of the discussion.
>
> Okay. Cool!>>
>
> I keep trying to. But you seem to think I'm a crazed, malicious TCS
> advocate
> and worthy of shushing. Or worse.:-(

I don't think that at all. I think I'm the crazed lunatic who's willing to
sit up reading threads on unschooling.com until all hours of the night and
allowing my child to eat five bowls of ice cream and DESCRIBING the
experience! You? Crazed? Uh-uh. Me? Mebbe.

Kate Davis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 11:24:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
zenmomma@... writes:


> >>"Just give me some you booger-nose butt-hole stick.">>
>
> Where did this come from, how does it relate to anything and why the
> hostility? Geez. Who EVER said their kid acted like that?
>
> I'm sorry, but you are missing the point.
>

No. I'm not missing the point. This is exactly what my son said to me,
verbatim, realtime.

Kate Davis, who is less concerned about ice cream than she is about where her
son picked up the phrase "booger-nose butt-hole stick" and why he thinks it
is okay to call his mother that


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/02 9:25:15 PM, Katedavislawfirm@... writes:

<<
My son, at 11:20 p.m., is on his fourth bowl of ice cream.

Maybe the servings are too small.
>>

Maybe because it's unusual he's eating as much as he can possibly get because
he thinks the limitations will be reinstated.

When people loosen a longstanding TV limit, or video game limit, kids binge
BIGTIME because (from accounts from the parents and kids, and from general
knowledge of human behavior) they think it's a temporary lapse of the rules.
It's a one-time special. It's a festival. They don't REALLY believe their
parents are not going to stick the restrictions right back on.

It's not until they honestly believe and trust and experience that they can
leave that ice cream there and it will still be there in a couple of days, or
a week, that they can calmly choose to leave it there.

<<Kate Davis, who is thinking that maybe she should just go to sleep and let
someone else (Julian?) run the household.>>

If the household decisions are put on a philosophical basis rather than a set
of rules, nobody has to actively "run it."

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 4:54:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> You seem to be suggesting I'm putting myself in legal danger by this. I
> know
> you're wrong. The "prudent" thing is that I have for years provided them
> with choices, and they have made some damned good ones.

The idea that it would be held against us in a custody battle is a give-away
that Kate is equating making ice cream freely available to eat for breakfast
every day and the kid CHOOSING to do so. If anybody asked my kids, what do
you eat for breakfast, they'd say they eat all kinds of things - a very very
wide variety of foods. But, we also always have ice cream available. I don't
think my kids ever eat ice cream for breakfast and, yes, ice cream goes gummy
in the freezer because it isn't all consumed just because it can be.

So - induct away <G>. All that it proves is that it is possible, of course,
to have unlimited sweets and have kids who don't gorge themselves on them.
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 5:05:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Katedavislawfirm@... writes:


> "Julian, do you want ice cream?"
>
> "Yeah."
>
> "Well, do we have it?"
>
> "Yeah."
>
> "Well, where is it?"
>
> "Just give me some you booger-nose butt-hole stick."
>
> Something, somewhere, is not right with the world.
>
> And so I will go and get him the ice cream he so desires.

What? I don't get it - supposed to be a joke? Or is he really talking
something like this? Or you're being sarcastic to make a point?

--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 8:24:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Katedavislawfirm@... writes:


> My son, at 11:20 p.m., is on his fourth bowl of ice cream.
>
> Maybe the servings are too small.
>
> Yet, I am always reminded of my friend, Linda, who was caught smoking when
> we
> were 14, and whose father thought he would "teach her a lesson" and made
> her
> smoke a whole carton of cigarettes without stopping. She became a chain
> smoker and died of lung cancer when she was 26.

I think that we often underestimate how much plain old fear rules our
behavior.

Ice cream isn't addictive, Kate. Relax.

Your kiddo is obviously bright. He's performing an experiment (on you, I
bet).

I bet he's very very perservering, too, and he might run this experiment for
quite a while. It won't hurt him to eat lots of ice cream every day for days
or weeks.

--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2002 8:37:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Katedavislawfirm@... writes:


> No, it's really about both. Or so I thought. We are now on bowl number
> five
> (and the servings are getting larger with each bowlful). He didn't want to
>
> eat a "real" dinner, and so I didn't "make" him. He is very happy right
> now,
> eating his FIFTH BOWL OF ICE CREAM. I, on the other hand, am not "happy."
>
> Intrigued, yes. Curious, certainly. Happy? Not on your life.

It sounds like he might eat it (this time) until he throws up. Maybe you want
to be prepared for that?

--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:

>
> You seem to be suggesting I'm putting myself in legal danger by
this.

You'd be surprised at what can put you in legal danger of loosing your
kids. About 5 years ago, someone turned us in to CPS. The person
said I only let Wyndham eat lettuce - mind you, this was a kid in the
90th percentile for height and weight for his age. I still had to
deal with pushy social workers who came out and frightened my kids.
Of course, I dealt by not letting them in my house and then firing off
a letter to their boss explaining that if someone couldn't
differential between my son and our Iguana (who does only eat lettuce
for the most part) it shouldn't be my problem and maybe they should
not take anonymous reports from people who are apparently insane. I
also intimated that I would consider further pursuit of the matter
harassment and would consider taking legal action. I got a real nice
letter back saying sorry for the inconvenience.
Much later we found out who had turned us in and ironically her son
was taken away from her by CPS a year or so later.

But if you think you can do things outside the norms of 'accepted
society' and not be in danger of legal problems, think again. As
irrational as it seems, CPS seems to consider different to be bad. At
least that's how it can be around here.

Bridget

[email protected]

I do not think that MY decision to refuse to get my son some ice cream at
10:51 at night is such a bad thing.

Am I wrong? (Or am I just lazy?) (Or tired?)

Kate Davis


I'd like to ask a question before I give my opinion.
WHY did you not get him Ice Cream? What does the time have to do with it?
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/30/2002 8:21:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ElissaJC@... writes:


> I'd like to ask a question before I give my opinion.
> WHY did you not get him Ice Cream? What does the time have to do with it?
>

As it turns out (and as you have probably already determined) I did get him
ice cream after all.

And, for the record, for anyone who's keeping track, he ate ice cream for
breakfast this morning, too.

Kate Davis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Where did this come from, how does it relate to anything and why the
hostility? Geez. Who EVER said their kid acted like that?

I think Kate said her son said that.
~Elissa Cleaveland, who probably would have laughed really hard if my son
said that. It's a very creative insult.
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

[email protected]

. He is very happy right now,
eating his FIFTH BOWL OF ICE CREAM. I, on the other hand, am not "happy."
Intrigued, yes. Curious, certainly. Happy? Not on your life.

Hi Kate,
another question.
What are you afraid this will do? The likelyhood of him continuing to eat
bowls and bowls of Ice Cream every day is small. From what I have seen and
heard, he may do that again to make sure you really aren't going to say no
next time and once he trusts that you don't think of Ice Cream as some thing
extra ordinary, something to be given out according to Mom's desires, he
won't NEED to eat so much ice cream.

~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

[email protected]

> I'd like to ask a question before I give my opinion.
> WHY did you not get him Ice Cream? What does the time have to do with it?
>

As it turns out (and as you have probably already determined) I did get him
ice cream after all.

I did. LOTS of Ice Cream!LOL
BUt I am still curious. WHy was your first response NO? When I said no It
was for the simple reason that everyone knows that one doesn't eat ice cream
so late.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/30/02 3:35:23 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<<
When people loosen a longstanding TV limit, or video game limit, kids binge
BIGTIME because (from accounts from the parents and kids, and from general
knowledge of human behavior) they think it's a temporary lapse of the rules.

It's a one-time special. It's a festival. They don't REALLY believe their
parents are not going to stick the restrictions right back on. >>

I can attest to the truth of this statement!!
The food I'm seeing a lot more self regulation with these days, and funny
thing, I see NO bingeing behavior in the 5y.o. that has never had much
control over her diet.
Her brothers have had the control lifted just over a year ago, and they're
slowly getting better.
We just got cable after not having it for years and years, and the oldest is
still bingeing after a week.
I think if we'd had decent tv prior to this it wouldn't be such a big deal
for him, but...
we had NO tv for 6 months, then crappy reception for another year.
So with the cable there is suddenly this whole world of opportunity he didn't
have.
It's very hard to see him in there day after day. But I know it's going to
become just another option, just like food, just like the computer, just like
everything else in their lives.
Ren

rumpleteasermom

Can we pleeeeaaassseee stop talking about ice cream? Now all I want
for lunch is a big bowl of chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream!!!!


Bridget