understanding unschooling better with or without community
[email protected]
to help people understand unschooling better
to build a sense of community
Those are the things we are charged to help do here on the unschooling-dotcom
list.
The first I totally can support, and have been doing this to the best of my
ability for years, in person, in writing, by phone (those whose numbers are
listed as local contacts know...), and online.
There is no one "community" of unschoolers, nor is there a national support
group for unschoolers, nor any of the things which are true of some other
subgroups within homeschooling.
A mailing list is a resource for information. If a sense of community
develops, that's a bonus. It can't be induced or forced. It is possible to
point out when people are compromising the chance of a sense of community
(and I might have this pointed out to me after this post, I know).
But for me, the two are nowhere near to equal in importance.
I've known some unschooling families who never went to any homeschooling
groups, didn't join any organizations whatsoever, don't go to playgroups or
park days and don't subscribe to magazines. Having discovered what
unschooling could be, they went out on their own without need for or desire
for a community of unschoolers, because they were in the community of the
real world, and had enough confidence to live there without "support."
There must be a million--literally a thousand thousand--places to go for
homeschooling information, good or bad. Local groups, newsletters, family
websites, sermons posted on the web, scheduled presentations of curriculum
sellers to local homeschooling groups, conferences, workshops, newspaper
articles, library resource folders, and there are Christian homeschooling
conference which can draw 5000 or more people at once.
The resources for unschoolers are very much slimmer and more limited, but
this list has been and can be a great source.
It's not my favorite, but it does have the potential to change lives for the
better. It has the potential to empower families to empower themselves.
Seekers don't need community as much as they need clarity and input.
When anyone is learning anything, there are better sources and worse ones.
Not every book on the Civil War is easy to understand and balanced. Not
every report of the holocaust is written by someone who really knows what
he's talking about and has something new and thoughtful to say about it. Not
all sets of directions can be followed successfully.
Regardless of all other factors, it would be good for newcomers to this or
any list to remember that some of the people who are offering opinions are
not, themselves, taking their own advice. Not all people who say "I've been
unschooling for ten years" would be considered to have been unschooling by
other observers. Or they might be counting from conception instead of from
school age (a debate we know well <g>). Some who say "unschooling has always
worked perfectly for our family" have had kids in and out of school (not a
great sin, but a factor to be considered).
And above all, nobody needs to depend on one source for all information.--not
one person, list, company, government summary, policy, nothing.
The way adults can learn is the way children can learn--by exposure, thought,
practice, more exposure, practice, new input, time to think, another pass at
the first exposure, etc.
One bad way to learn is to come and get one set of directions, go away and
follow them, and declare it all learned and over with. Unschooling doesn't
work that way.
You can't learn to write a bicycle in the absence of a bicycle, and you can't
learn what unschooling is or how it works without actually trying it, doing
it, getting feedback (from any and all involved), thinking, adjusting, and
living with it in your life.
So when you (anyone here or anywhere, newcomer, repeat-seeker, first or
second year, convert from Calvert, longterm unschooler) read ideas and
experiences, let them settle. Let them soak in. Try some out. Before you
decide with confidence that someone is your favorite writer, let some time
pass and see how the information looks in different lights. See whether the
writer is consistent, and really seems concerned with helping others.
Synthesize your own body of knowledge from the best parts of what you gather
by reading, observing, and experimentation.
The list can't be everything for anyone, but it can be something for everyone.
Anyone who uses it is responsible for his or her own use, and shouldn't
attack the first day or week out. (Thereafter you probably wouldn't want to,
anyway.) Bring your own good judgement and don't try to make it something it
isn't, or customize it for yourself.
Unschooling isn't so easy to understand. It's possible to paddle around in
it without really swimming. But if we keep adding useful information to the
pool of knowledge we're sharing, it will continue to be a resource for
earnest learners.
Sandra
to build a sense of community
Those are the things we are charged to help do here on the unschooling-dotcom
list.
The first I totally can support, and have been doing this to the best of my
ability for years, in person, in writing, by phone (those whose numbers are
listed as local contacts know...), and online.
There is no one "community" of unschoolers, nor is there a national support
group for unschoolers, nor any of the things which are true of some other
subgroups within homeschooling.
A mailing list is a resource for information. If a sense of community
develops, that's a bonus. It can't be induced or forced. It is possible to
point out when people are compromising the chance of a sense of community
(and I might have this pointed out to me after this post, I know).
But for me, the two are nowhere near to equal in importance.
I've known some unschooling families who never went to any homeschooling
groups, didn't join any organizations whatsoever, don't go to playgroups or
park days and don't subscribe to magazines. Having discovered what
unschooling could be, they went out on their own without need for or desire
for a community of unschoolers, because they were in the community of the
real world, and had enough confidence to live there without "support."
There must be a million--literally a thousand thousand--places to go for
homeschooling information, good or bad. Local groups, newsletters, family
websites, sermons posted on the web, scheduled presentations of curriculum
sellers to local homeschooling groups, conferences, workshops, newspaper
articles, library resource folders, and there are Christian homeschooling
conference which can draw 5000 or more people at once.
The resources for unschoolers are very much slimmer and more limited, but
this list has been and can be a great source.
It's not my favorite, but it does have the potential to change lives for the
better. It has the potential to empower families to empower themselves.
Seekers don't need community as much as they need clarity and input.
When anyone is learning anything, there are better sources and worse ones.
Not every book on the Civil War is easy to understand and balanced. Not
every report of the holocaust is written by someone who really knows what
he's talking about and has something new and thoughtful to say about it. Not
all sets of directions can be followed successfully.
Regardless of all other factors, it would be good for newcomers to this or
any list to remember that some of the people who are offering opinions are
not, themselves, taking their own advice. Not all people who say "I've been
unschooling for ten years" would be considered to have been unschooling by
other observers. Or they might be counting from conception instead of from
school age (a debate we know well <g>). Some who say "unschooling has always
worked perfectly for our family" have had kids in and out of school (not a
great sin, but a factor to be considered).
And above all, nobody needs to depend on one source for all information.--not
one person, list, company, government summary, policy, nothing.
The way adults can learn is the way children can learn--by exposure, thought,
practice, more exposure, practice, new input, time to think, another pass at
the first exposure, etc.
One bad way to learn is to come and get one set of directions, go away and
follow them, and declare it all learned and over with. Unschooling doesn't
work that way.
You can't learn to write a bicycle in the absence of a bicycle, and you can't
learn what unschooling is or how it works without actually trying it, doing
it, getting feedback (from any and all involved), thinking, adjusting, and
living with it in your life.
So when you (anyone here or anywhere, newcomer, repeat-seeker, first or
second year, convert from Calvert, longterm unschooler) read ideas and
experiences, let them settle. Let them soak in. Try some out. Before you
decide with confidence that someone is your favorite writer, let some time
pass and see how the information looks in different lights. See whether the
writer is consistent, and really seems concerned with helping others.
Synthesize your own body of knowledge from the best parts of what you gather
by reading, observing, and experimentation.
The list can't be everything for anyone, but it can be something for everyone.
Anyone who uses it is responsible for his or her own use, and shouldn't
attack the first day or week out. (Thereafter you probably wouldn't want to,
anyway.) Bring your own good judgement and don't try to make it something it
isn't, or customize it for yourself.
Unschooling isn't so easy to understand. It's possible to paddle around in
it without really swimming. But if we keep adding useful information to the
pool of knowledge we're sharing, it will continue to be a resource for
earnest learners.
Sandra
rumpleteasermom
>I'm not sure I can agree with this. I think having a sense of
> Seekers don't need community as much as they need clarity and input.
>
community is important for many people in anything they do. I also
think that when you are struggling with a specific problem it is
really easy to feel all alone if everyone you hear from is adamant
about telling you that it is not a problem for them. Sometimes, it is
just helpful to here from someone who has BTDT and know you are not
alone.
Some people find strength in individuality, some find it in community.
Bridget
Fetteroll
> Please do not directly communicate with me again.If someone contacts you (that's a general you) off list, and you don't want
them to, click on the email and then click Delete.
Or set your eamil program to filter any emails from their address to the
Trash so you don't even have to see it in your mail box. (You can ask on
list for help. (Informing us that you're trying to prevent someone on the
list from contacting you won't be a necessary part of the question.)
Or contact your internet provider to see what their criteria of spamming or
other harrassment is.
*Please* don't bring such exchanges to the list. It doesn't help anyone
understand more about unschooling.
We might be able argue this, but the freedom to email someone sounds like
freedom of speech to me. We should all be free to email whomever we want.
But just because someone emails you doesn't mean you need to read it.
DELETE IT.
Perhaps one of the more useful lessons in life is that we have very little
power to control what others do but we have a huge amount of power to
control what *we* do.
You have the tools. Learn to use them.
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
Fetteroll
Okay, here's what I was trying to get across by using the word community. I
was trying to avoid writing a whole sentence and thought the one word
community would convey what I meant but since words can mean different
things to different people ...
Gee, where have I heard that discussion before? ;-)
By community I mean create an atmosphere where the purpose of this list:
"to discuss unschooling in ways designed to help each other become
unschoolers or become better at unschooling"
can be carried out.
If in pursuit of the purpose we destroy the place that makes it possible to
carry it out (Helen could pull the plug!) or chase away so many people that
we're only talking to a handful, then we've lost the ability to pursue the
purpose.
So if it doesn't help someone understand more about unschooling, don't hit
send.
(Which probably covered the "community" part anyway. But I reserve the right
to change my mind later ;-)
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
was trying to avoid writing a whole sentence and thought the one word
community would convey what I meant but since words can mean different
things to different people ...
Gee, where have I heard that discussion before? ;-)
By community I mean create an atmosphere where the purpose of this list:
"to discuss unschooling in ways designed to help each other become
unschoolers or become better at unschooling"
can be carried out.
If in pursuit of the purpose we destroy the place that makes it possible to
carry it out (Helen could pull the plug!) or chase away so many people that
we're only talking to a handful, then we've lost the ability to pursue the
purpose.
So if it doesn't help someone understand more about unschooling, don't hit
send.
(Which probably covered the "community" part anyway. But I reserve the right
to change my mind later ;-)
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
Karin
>right
> So if it doesn't help someone understand more about unschooling, don't hit
> send.
>
> (Which probably covered the "community" part anyway. But I reserve the
> to change my mind later ;-)I really like seeing the sentence posted at the bottom of pamS's posts
>
> Joyce
> Unschooling-dotcom moderator
>
lately about the post intending to contribute.....
> pamSor
> This post is intended to contribute to us understanding unschooling better
> to building a sense of community.It really is a reminder that THAT is what we are here for and what I want to
read about, not about how one person feels about another person on the list,
etc.
I hope THIS post does not deter from building that community, but I just
felt the need to comment. :-)
Karin
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/23/2002 8:21:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
There are hundreds of people here, many who never say a word and we don't
even know they're here. What you meant by "community" sounds more like
creating an "environment" that is supportive and conducive to people asking
questions and getting a variety of answers as well as a place for unschoolers
to toss ideas around and bounce them off of each other. Community had more
connotations than that, to me.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> y community I mean create an atmosphere where the purpose of this list:I like this a lot more than just "creating a sense of community," Joyce.
>
> "to discuss unschooling in ways designed to help each other become
> unschoolers or become better at unschooling"
>
> can be carried out.
There are hundreds of people here, many who never say a word and we don't
even know they're here. What you meant by "community" sounds more like
creating an "environment" that is supportive and conducive to people asking
questions and getting a variety of answers as well as a place for unschoolers
to toss ideas around and bounce them off of each other. Community had more
connotations than that, to me.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 4/23/02 12:35 PM, PSoroosh@... at PSoroosh@... wrote:
supportive and conducive to people asking questions and getting a variety of
answers as well as a place for unschoolers to toss ideas around and bounce
them off of each other" for your tag line? <eg>
Joyce
> I like this a lot more than just "creating a sense of community," Joyce.So, how are you going to condense "creating an "environment" that is
supportive and conducive to people asking questions and getting a variety of
answers as well as a place for unschoolers to toss ideas around and bounce
them off of each other" for your tag line? <eg>
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/23/02 7:17:19 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:
<< Sometimes, it is
just helpful to here from someone who has BTDT and know you are not
alone. >>
That alone won't be enough if they want to unschool.
<< Sometimes, it is
just helpful to here from someone who has BTDT and know you are not
alone. >>
That alone won't be enough if they want to unschool.
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
disorder, it doesn't really help to only hear advice about how to
unschool a kid without it . . . especially when the advice doesn't
even begin to address the problems.
Bridget
ps - anyone dealing with OCD and/or anxiety disorders? How about
Tourette Syndrom? I have questions.
>Nope, not alone. But if you have a child obsessive-compulsive
> In a message dated 4/23/02 7:17:19 AM, rumpleteasermom@j... writes:
>
> << Sometimes, it is
> just helpful to here from someone who has BTDT and know you are not
> alone. >>
>
> That alone won't be enough if they want to unschool.
disorder, it doesn't really help to only hear advice about how to
unschool a kid without it . . . especially when the advice doesn't
even begin to address the problems.
Bridget
ps - anyone dealing with OCD and/or anxiety disorders? How about
Tourette Syndrom? I have questions.
Fetteroll
on 4/23/02 12:31 PM, Karin at curtkar@... wrote:
Now all we have to do is keep her posting a lot so people see it numerous
times a day. :-)
Joyce
> I really like seeing the sentence posted at the bottom of pamS's posts latelyMe too, I agree with you.
> about the post intending to contribute.....
>
>> pamS This post is intended to contribute to us understanding unschooling
>> better or to building a sense of community.
>
> It really is a reminder that THAT is what we are here for and what I want to
> read about, not about how one person feels about another person on the list,
> etc.
Now all we have to do is keep her posting a lot so people see it numerous
times a day. :-)
Joyce
zenmomma *
>>I really like seeing the sentence posted at the bottom of pamS's postsMe too, I agree with you.
>>lately....
Now all we have to do is keep her posting a lot so people see it numerous
times a day. :-)>>
Oohhh...I want PamS to post LOTS, just because she always has something
great to contribute. I get sooooo much from her take on things. :o)
Oh, and I like her tag line too. :o)
Life is good.
~Mary
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