math experience
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/02 9:23:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
How do you help someone else learn something that you are not very good at?
Do you trade with somebody? >>
Trade what? My kids don't do lessons so what would we trade? Time with
another family?
No, don't let math phobia scare you...(no pun intended), we are surrounded by
math, they can't ignore it.
At least, not if you're surrounding them with life and opportunities.
Now I can see where my math phobia could limit our opportunities, so I'm
brushing up on some math skills for myself. I must say, I wasn't as dumb as I
thought.
So making yourself aware and comfortable is not a bad idea.
But Math surrounds us, everyday, everywhere.
My 8y.o. ds has no preconcieved notions about Math being hard, so he adds
huge numbers without stress, multiplies (even though he doesn't know that's
what it is) counts his money perfectly and smiles the whole time.
He doesn't know I hate math. He doens't know it was hard for many of us.
It's just part of his life.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<<
How do you help someone else learn something that you are not very good at?
Do you trade with somebody? >>
Trade what? My kids don't do lessons so what would we trade? Time with
another family?
No, don't let math phobia scare you...(no pun intended), we are surrounded by
math, they can't ignore it.
At least, not if you're surrounding them with life and opportunities.
Now I can see where my math phobia could limit our opportunities, so I'm
brushing up on some math skills for myself. I must say, I wasn't as dumb as I
thought.
So making yourself aware and comfortable is not a bad idea.
But Math surrounds us, everyday, everywhere.
My 8y.o. ds has no preconcieved notions about Math being hard, so he adds
huge numbers without stress, multiplies (even though he doesn't know that's
what it is) counts his money perfectly and smiles the whole time.
He doesn't know I hate math. He doens't know it was hard for many of us.
It's just part of his life.
Ren
sharon childs
I didn't mean trade kids, I meant maybe someone helps teach yours math and
you help them with science. If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
to you. Some of us do help them do lessons, some children enjoy the
workbooks and things of that sort. Chaelene just finished one on telling
time and enjoyed every page.
I don't expect that everybody here is doing the exact same things with their
unschooling or anything else. So if you can't relate to what I am saying or
asking,,,I can surely relate to that.
Sharon
you help them with science. If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
to you. Some of us do help them do lessons, some children enjoy the
workbooks and things of that sort. Chaelene just finished one on telling
time and enjoyed every page.
I don't expect that everybody here is doing the exact same things with their
unschooling or anything else. So if you can't relate to what I am saying or
asking,,,I can surely relate to that.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: <starsuncloud@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:04 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
> In a message dated 4/19/02 9:23:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> <<
> How do you help someone else learn something that you are not very good
at?
> Do you trade with somebody? >>
>
> Trade what? My kids don't do lessons so what would we trade? Time with
> another family?
> No, don't let math phobia scare you...(no pun intended), we are surrounded
by
> math, they can't ignore it.
> At least, not if you're surrounding them with life and opportunities.
> Now I can see where my math phobia could limit our opportunities, so I'm
> brushing up on some math skills for myself. I must say, I wasn't as dumb
as I
> thought.
> So making yourself aware and comfortable is not a bad idea.
> But Math surrounds us, everyday, everywhere.
> My 8y.o. ds has no preconcieved notions about Math being hard, so he adds
> huge numbers without stress, multiplies (even though he doesn't know
that's
> what it is) counts his money perfectly and smiles the whole time.
> He doesn't know I hate math. He doens't know it was hard for many of us.
> It's just part of his life.
> Ren
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
<< If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
to you. >>
But if you come to "unschooling-dotcom" and ask for ideas about how to trade
lessons, you're quite likely to get suggestions that lessons are not only
unnecessary, but can be detrimental.
<<Some of us do help them do lessons, some children enjoy the
workbooks and things of that sort. Chaelene just finished one on telling
time and enjoyed every page.
"doing lessons"?
Sandra
to you. >>
But if you come to "unschooling-dotcom" and ask for ideas about how to trade
lessons, you're quite likely to get suggestions that lessons are not only
unnecessary, but can be detrimental.
<<Some of us do help them do lessons, some children enjoy the
workbooks and things of that sort. Chaelene just finished one on telling
time and enjoyed every page.
>>If she's having sufficient fun, why don't you consider it playing instead of
"doing lessons"?
Sandra
Kate
Look out
here we go again..
Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her daughter does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what she calls it...
Kate
here we go again..
Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her daughter does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what she calls it...
Kate
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
<< If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
to you. >>
But if you come to "unschooling-dotcom" and ask for ideas about how to trade
lessons, you're quite likely to get suggestions that lessons are not only
unnecessary, but can be detrimental.
<<Some of us do help them do lessons, some children enjoy the
workbooks and things of that sort. Chaelene just finished one on telling
time and enjoyed every page.
>>
If she's having sufficient fun, why don't you consider it playing instead of
"doing lessons"?
Sandra
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[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/02 5:42:55 PM, kate_odriscoll@... writes:
<< Look out
here we go again.. >>
Do you mean "here we go discussing unschooling again"?
We'll do that as long as the list lasts!
I doubt you mean to suggest that doing lessons and discussing how to trade
doing lessons with another family is a good topic for the unschooling list,
or a topic on which someone will get teaching-oriented advice.
<<Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her daughter
does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what she
calls it...>>
I think it matters on an unschooling list.
If people say<< If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
to you. >>
or
"If your kids go to school every day, then it doesn't apply to you"
or
"If your kids are committed to doing ABeka, this it doesn't apply to you,"
then I bet someone is going to say something about unschooling.
And I don't think "Look out
here we go again.." would be a useful comment when they do.
Sandra
<< Look out
here we go again.. >>
Do you mean "here we go discussing unschooling again"?
We'll do that as long as the list lasts!
I doubt you mean to suggest that doing lessons and discussing how to trade
doing lessons with another family is a good topic for the unschooling list,
or a topic on which someone will get teaching-oriented advice.
<<Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her daughter
does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what she
calls it...>>
I think it matters on an unschooling list.
If people say<< If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
to you. >>
or
"If your kids go to school every day, then it doesn't apply to you"
or
"If your kids are committed to doing ABeka, this it doesn't apply to you,"
then I bet someone is going to say something about unschooling.
And I don't think "Look out
here we go again.." would be a useful comment when they do.
Sandra
gruvystarchild
>'I don't expect that everybody here is doing the exact same things
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <starsuncloud@c...>
> To: <Unschooling-dotcom@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:04 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
>
>
with their
unschooling or anything else. So if you can't relate to what I am
saying or
asking,,,I can surely relate to that'
Of course we aren't doing the same things, but we are interested in
supporting and discussing what unschooling is and is not.
Lessons are not unschooling, unless the child actually wanted
it....but kids that are unschooled see the whole world as learning
and don't typically see lessons as the best way to get info. they
need.
As you journey along, you will see that they can actually impede the
learning process.
Now if lessons is how you do things, that is totally your
business...I won't disparage that. And trading lessons with another
family may be what you're looking for.
But in an unschooling context, this isn't necessary.
Ren
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Unschooling-dotcom-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >
> >
gruvystarchild
"Look out
here we go again..
Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her
daughter
does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what
she calls
it..."
Then what is the purpose of having an unschooling support list if we
are just going to say "hurray for you" to anyone coming here?
I think we need to remember that this is an unschooing support and
discussion list. Otherwise let's just invite a bunch of ps'ers,
teachers, whomever and say "yay for everyone".
When something flies in the face of unschooling it needs to be
pointed out.
Not because anyone is saying that they shouldn't do things their way,
but some things aren't conducive to unschooling and thank GOODNESS
people were willing to point those things out to me!!!
If a person doesn't want to hear how their ideas do/do not help with
joyful unschooling they can ignore the advice given.
It's detrimental to this list to act like anything we do as parents
or homeschoolers is just fine and have all of us stick our heads in
the sand and not respond with ideas and advice when something smacks
of school mentality.
Ren
here we go again..
Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her
daughter
does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what
she calls
it..."
Then what is the purpose of having an unschooling support list if we
are just going to say "hurray for you" to anyone coming here?
I think we need to remember that this is an unschooing support and
discussion list. Otherwise let's just invite a bunch of ps'ers,
teachers, whomever and say "yay for everyone".
When something flies in the face of unschooling it needs to be
pointed out.
Not because anyone is saying that they shouldn't do things their way,
but some things aren't conducive to unschooling and thank GOODNESS
people were willing to point those things out to me!!!
If a person doesn't want to hear how their ideas do/do not help with
joyful unschooling they can ignore the advice given.
It's detrimental to this list to act like anything we do as parents
or homeschoolers is just fine and have all of us stick our heads in
the sand and not respond with ideas and advice when something smacks
of school mentality.
Ren
Kate
Alright then how about these comments as being useful...
<<Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her daughter
does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what she
calls it...>>
If people say<< If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
to you. >>
or
"If your kids go to school every day, then it doesn't apply to you"
or
"If your kids are committed to doing ABeka, this it doesn't apply to you,"
Kate
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Do you mean "here we go discussing >unschooling again"?I meant here we go again, instead of giving her answers to her actual question, we get to hear once again the definitions of 'un-schooling' instead of offering actual suggestions about how to go about what she was asking.
>We'll do that as long as the list lasts!
>I doubt you mean to suggest that doing >lessons and discussing how to tradeI would not suggest such a thing, nor would I suggest to anyone that anything they ask about is not a good topic, because all questions are valid, except those left unasked. Life is learning, and we dont find out the answers until we ask the questions, ofcourse my response directly to her would have been a bit more constructive, such as explaining to her how we go about learning math in my unschooling household, not criticizing her choice to ask a question on this list.
>doing lessons with another family is a good >topic for the unschooling list,
>or a topic on which someone will get >teaching-oriented advice.
<<Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her daughter
does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what she
calls it...>>
>I think it matters on an unschooling list.Her household doesnt live on this list, and frankly I dont choose my words to 'fit' anyone elses ideas or use words that others think are more appropriate.
If people say<< If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
to you. >>
or
"If your kids go to school every day, then it doesn't apply to you"
or
"If your kids are committed to doing ABeka, this it doesn't apply to you,"
>then I bet someone is going to say >Ofcourse, and suggesting ways in which math is more naturally learned as opposed to lessons is a wonderful response. Not exactly what was done tho was it? I believe her statement was meant to say just that, if my question doesnt apply to how YOU choose to unschool then no response is necessary. Ofcourse there will always have to be these lil comments wont there?
>something about unschooling.
>And I don't think "Look outNo its more useful to pick apart why they chose to call it a lesson, when in fact it was an actual lesson book she was learning from. My comment was intended to do just exactly what it obviously did. Now if we are done snipping, can we get back to the discussion?
>here we go again.." would be a useful >comment when they do.
>Sandra
Kate
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kate
Does anyone actually KNOW if this child asked for this lesson book or not? or is it just a typical practice to jump the second this word lesson is 'spoken'?
Obviously whatever I have to say on this issue is going to get feathers ruffled, I have accepted this, or I wouldn't still be here. There is some fantastic information, for the most part. I am saddened however to see the degradation of topics, when a person comes up with a question about how to get a 'lesson' across, I would be the first person to give examples of how we learn in our home without the need for lessons or workbooks, and also plenty of examples where my children choose to use them, ask for them when we are in a bookstore, and guess what folks .. I don't say to them "ohhh heaven forbid NOOOOOOO we are unschoolers, its a horrible thing to learn from a workbook or lesson book....bite your tongue child" I happily purchase the book for them and let them mess around with it if they wish.
No one has a clue if this was the situation or not, just alot of assumptions, and the usual high horse comments and criticisms. That is what I was referring to.
And this is the last I have to say on the subject.
Kate
Obviously whatever I have to say on this issue is going to get feathers ruffled, I have accepted this, or I wouldn't still be here. There is some fantastic information, for the most part. I am saddened however to see the degradation of topics, when a person comes up with a question about how to get a 'lesson' across, I would be the first person to give examples of how we learn in our home without the need for lessons or workbooks, and also plenty of examples where my children choose to use them, ask for them when we are in a bookstore, and guess what folks .. I don't say to them "ohhh heaven forbid NOOOOOOO we are unschoolers, its a horrible thing to learn from a workbook or lesson book....bite your tongue child" I happily purchase the book for them and let them mess around with it if they wish.
No one has a clue if this was the situation or not, just alot of assumptions, and the usual high horse comments and criticisms. That is what I was referring to.
And this is the last I have to say on the subject.
Kate
----- Original Message -----
From: gruvystarchild
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:12 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
"Look out
here we go again..
Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her
daughter
does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what
she calls
it..."
Then what is the purpose of having an unschooling support list if we
are just going to say "hurray for you" to anyone coming here?
I think we need to remember that this is an unschooing support and
discussion list. Otherwise let's just invite a bunch of ps'ers,
teachers, whomever and say "yay for everyone".
When something flies in the face of unschooling it needs to be
pointed out.
Not because anyone is saying that they shouldn't do things their way,
but some things aren't conducive to unschooling and thank GOODNESS
people were willing to point those things out to me!!!
If a person doesn't want to hear how their ideas do/do not help with
joyful unschooling they can ignore the advice given.
It's detrimental to this list to act like anything we do as parents
or homeschoolers is just fine and have all of us stick our heads in
the sand and not respond with ideas and advice when something smacks
of school mentality.
Ren
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~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
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http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Perhaps she is taking the first steps to unschooling. Perhaps with
encouragement they will come all the way over the bridge to unschooling.
Perhaps answering those kinds of questions with support, explanations and
encouragement instead of "you aren't an unschooler, good-bye" might bring
them a step closer. Perhaps an explanation of deschooling for both parent
and child would have been more helpful.
Perhaps, just perhaps we could all just let the one liners go and not feel
like we have to start the whole defend a particular definition of
unschooling AGAIN.
IF one reads the posts from Sharon from the beginning to the most current
(not necessary those that have appeared lately since Yahoo is off and
running arse backwards again!), you would see what I see, big steps from the
original posts which were very hser-ish to more and more seeing the benefits
of unschooling.
Lynda
encouragement they will come all the way over the bridge to unschooling.
Perhaps answering those kinds of questions with support, explanations and
encouragement instead of "you aren't an unschooler, good-bye" might bring
them a step closer. Perhaps an explanation of deschooling for both parent
and child would have been more helpful.
Perhaps, just perhaps we could all just let the one liners go and not feel
like we have to start the whole defend a particular definition of
unschooling AGAIN.
IF one reads the posts from Sharon from the beginning to the most current
(not necessary those that have appeared lately since Yahoo is off and
running arse backwards again!), you would see what I see, big steps from the
original posts which were very hser-ish to more and more seeing the benefits
of unschooling.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:12 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
> "Look out
> here we go again..
> Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her
> daughter
> does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what
> she calls
> it..."
>
> Then what is the purpose of having an unschooling support list if we
> are just going to say "hurray for you" to anyone coming here?
> I think we need to remember that this is an unschooing support and
> discussion list. Otherwise let's just invite a bunch of ps'ers,
> teachers, whomever and say "yay for everyone".
> When something flies in the face of unschooling it needs to be
> pointed out.
> Not because anyone is saying that they shouldn't do things their way,
> but some things aren't conducive to unschooling and thank GOODNESS
> people were willing to point those things out to me!!!
> If a person doesn't want to hear how their ideas do/do not help with
> joyful unschooling they can ignore the advice given.
> It's detrimental to this list to act like anything we do as parents
> or homeschoolers is just fine and have all of us stick our heads in
> the sand and not respond with ideas and advice when something smacks
> of school mentality.
> Ren
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
Just in case anybody remembers, until about a week ago, I kept workbooks out
of reach of my children, believing they were too young to reach for them and
not "destroy" them.
After a considerable amount of angst and self-reflection, I put them on the
accessible bookshelf.
My daughter (2) scribbles in them whenever she likes. And I don't mind it
anymore!
My son (3) actually works in them in the manner in which he is "supposed" to.
And I don't mind that either!
I think I am experiencing an "unschooling breakthrough."
(I have also just stopped listening to what I think the children "need" to
participate in, and started listening to what the "want" to participate in.)
Loving letting go,
Kate Davis
In a message dated 4/20/2002 7:34:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
of reach of my children, believing they were too young to reach for them and
not "destroy" them.
After a considerable amount of angst and self-reflection, I put them on the
accessible bookshelf.
My daughter (2) scribbles in them whenever she likes. And I don't mind it
anymore!
My son (3) actually works in them in the manner in which he is "supposed" to.
And I don't mind that either!
I think I am experiencing an "unschooling breakthrough."
(I have also just stopped listening to what I think the children "need" to
participate in, and started listening to what the "want" to participate in.)
Loving letting go,
Kate Davis
In a message dated 4/20/2002 7:34:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> << If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
> to you. >>
>
> But if you come to "unschooling-dotcom" and ask for ideas about how to
> trade
> lessons, you're quite likely to get suggestions that lessons are not only
> unnecessary, but can be detrimental.
>
> <<Some of us do help them do lessons, some children enjoy the
> workbooks and things of that sort. Chaelene just finished one on telling
> time and enjoyed every page.
> >>
>
> If she's having sufficient fun, why don't you consider it playing instead
> of
> "doing lessons"?
>
> Sandra
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/02 6:28:32 PM, kate_odriscoll@... writes:
<< I meant here we go again, instead of giving her answers to her actual
question, we get to hear once again the definitions of 'un-schooling'
instead of offering actual suggestions about how to go about what she was
asking. >>
This is not a good place to get suggestions about how to go about trading
teaching-duties with other schooling families.
<< Ofcourse there will always have to be these lil comments wont there?>>
Like "look out
here we go again?"
No, we don't need those "lil comments," but the definition of unschooling
needs to come up LOTS and lots, and not be criticized when it does.
<<My comment was intended to do just exactly what it obviously did.>>
Please explain what your comment was intended to do and what it "obviously"
did, if it's important to you.
Sandra
<< I meant here we go again, instead of giving her answers to her actual
question, we get to hear once again the definitions of 'un-schooling'
instead of offering actual suggestions about how to go about what she was
asking. >>
This is not a good place to get suggestions about how to go about trading
teaching-duties with other schooling families.
<< Ofcourse there will always have to be these lil comments wont there?>>
Like "look out
here we go again?"
No, we don't need those "lil comments," but the definition of unschooling
needs to come up LOTS and lots, and not be criticized when it does.
<<My comment was intended to do just exactly what it obviously did.>>
Please explain what your comment was intended to do and what it "obviously"
did, if it's important to you.
Sandra
Jon and Rue Kream
Yay!!!!! Congratulations! I hope you continue to enjoy the ride. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/02 6:33:32 PM, kate_odriscoll@... writes:
<< I would be the first person to give examples of how we learn in our home
without the need for lessons or workbooks >>
Go for it!
<< I don't say to them "ohhh heaven forbid NOOOOOOO we are unschoolers, its a
horrible thing to learn from a workbook or lesson book....bite your tongue
child" I happily purchase the book for them and let them mess around with it
if they wish.>>
Letting them mess around with it is not what was being discussed, it seemed.
It was "doing lessons."
<<No one has a clue if this was the situation or not, just alot of
assumptions, and the usual high horse comments and criticisms. >>
Having read all of the posters writings here up to that point, I felt I had
more than just assumptions.
"High horse comments" is an insult, and not productive. Please discuss
unschooling and not other people.
Sandra
<< I would be the first person to give examples of how we learn in our home
without the need for lessons or workbooks >>
Go for it!
<< I don't say to them "ohhh heaven forbid NOOOOOOO we are unschoolers, its a
horrible thing to learn from a workbook or lesson book....bite your tongue
child" I happily purchase the book for them and let them mess around with it
if they wish.>>
Letting them mess around with it is not what was being discussed, it seemed.
It was "doing lessons."
<<No one has a clue if this was the situation or not, just alot of
assumptions, and the usual high horse comments and criticisms. >>
Having read all of the posters writings here up to that point, I felt I had
more than just assumptions.
"High horse comments" is an insult, and not productive. Please discuss
unschooling and not other people.
Sandra
Bonni Sollars
[My 8y.o. ds has no preconcieved notions about Math being hard, so he
adds
huge numbers without stress, multiplies (even though he doesn't know
that's
what it is) counts his money perfectly and smiles the whole time.]
[Give opportunity, give materials...they can't stop learning.]
Thanks Ren,for the math-material suggestions. I'm going to look into
getting some of these things, if only just for my friends' kids who come
over. Your son sounds just like my daughter, who used to hate math
before unschooling. Unschooling is awesome!
Bonni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
adds
huge numbers without stress, multiplies (even though he doesn't know
that's
what it is) counts his money perfectly and smiles the whole time.]
[Give opportunity, give materials...they can't stop learning.]
Thanks Ren,for the math-material suggestions. I'm going to look into
getting some of these things, if only just for my friends' kids who come
over. Your son sounds just like my daughter, who used to hate math
before unschooling. Unschooling is awesome!
Bonni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Camille Bauer
Loving letting go,>>
That's great! :)
CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's great! :)
CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharon childs
Do I have to do this somebody elses way, or can I do it my way?
Not everybody necessarily has the same goals. I thought that was one of the
big reasons for unschooling.
You said <<, unless the child actually wanted
Perhaps I should say..."No Chaelene, you can not do workbooks, that would
look like formal education and that is a no no no, then we would not be
unschoolers and that would not be good". Better you wait for the right
thing to come along.
????????????????
Sharon
Not everybody necessarily has the same goals. I thought that was one of the
big reasons for unschooling.
You said <<, unless the child actually wanted
> it.>>I said....."she enjoys doing workbooks".
Perhaps I should say..."No Chaelene, you can not do workbooks, that would
look like formal education and that is a no no no, then we would not be
unschoolers and that would not be good". Better you wait for the right
thing to come along.
????????????????
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:03 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: math experience
>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <starsuncloud@c...>
> > To: <Unschooling-dotcom@y...>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:04 AM
> > Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
> >
> >
>
> 'I don't expect that everybody here is doing the exact same things
> with their
> unschooling or anything else. So if you can't relate to what I am
> saying or
> asking,,,I can surely relate to that'
>
> Of course we aren't doing the same things, but we are interested in
> supporting and discussing what unschooling is and is not.
> Lessons are not unschooling, unless the child actually wanted
> it....but kids that are unschooled see the whole world as learning
> and don't typically see lessons as the best way to get info. they
> need.
> As you journey along, you will see that they can actually impede the
> learning process.
> Now if lessons is how you do things, that is totally your
> business...I won't disparage that. And trading lessons with another
> family may be what you're looking for.
> But in an unschooling context, this isn't necessary.
> Ren
> > >
> > > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject
> line! ~~~
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Unschooling-dotcom-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > > http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
sharon childs
----- Original Message -----
From: "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:12 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
> "Look out
> here we go again..
> Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her
> daughter
> does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what
> she calls
> it..."
>
> Then what is the purpose of having an unschooling support list if we
> are just going to say "hurray for you" to anyone coming here?
> I think we need to remember that this is an unschooing support and
> discussion list. Otherwise let's just invite a bunch of ps'ers,
> teachers, whomever and say "yay for everyone".
> When something flies in the face of unschooling it needs to be
> pointed out.
> Not because anyone is saying that they shouldn't do things their way,
> but some things aren't conducive to unschooling and thank GOODNESS
> people were willing to point those things out to me!!!
> If a person doesn't want to hear how their ideas do/do not help with
> joyful unschooling they can ignore the advice given.
> It's detrimental to this list to act like anything we do as parents
> or homeschoolers is just fine and have all of us stick our heads in
> the sand and not respond with ideas and advice when something smacks
> of school mentality.
> Ren
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
sharon childs
> It's detrimental to this list to act like anything we do as parentsI am sorry you think my methods are incorrect and unacceptable and that you
> or homeschoolers is just fine and have all of us stick our heads in
> the sand and not respond with ideas and advice when something smacks
> of school mentality.
think my posts are detrimental to the list. I really wish I cared that I do
not have your approval but try as I might, I just don't care. You do it
your way, I will do it mine. I will not pass judgement on you or whether or
not you have the right to be here. If you want to pass that judgement on
me, go for it. I still don't care.
Sharon
sharon childs
> If she's having sufficient fun, why don't you consider it playinginstead of
> "doing lessons"?Whatever!! Does that change it or does it just make it easier for YOU to
>
> Sandra
deal with? The words education, lessons, classroom etc., have been in my
world for nearly decades. I am not going to *avoid* those words just
because you have problems dealing with them. That is all they are is words.
Why do you try to read so much in them that is not there? Does this have
to be so impossible?
You want to discuss detrimental to the list? I wish you would give that
some thought. I have not been trying to discourage anybody or put down
anything anybody is doing. You, however seem to feel that it is your way or
the highway.
Sharon
sharon childs
My entire reason for saying "If this does not apply to you" was so that if
someone disagreed with my choice of words (as has happened sooo many times
here) then hopefully they would just delete it, instead of jumping down my
throat. As the list moderator instructed me to do.
We see how that went though. Can't seem to win for losing around here.
Sharon
someone disagreed with my choice of words (as has happened sooo many times
here) then hopefully they would just delete it, instead of jumping down my
throat. As the list moderator instructed me to do.
We see how that went though. Can't seem to win for losing around here.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kate" <kate_odriscoll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
> Alright then how about these comments as being useful...
>
>
> >Do you mean "here we go discussing >unschooling again"?
> >We'll do that as long as the list lasts!
>
> I meant here we go again, instead of giving her answers to her actual
question, we get to hear once again the definitions of 'un-schooling'
instead of offering actual suggestions about how to go about what she was
asking.
>
> >I doubt you mean to suggest that doing >lessons and discussing how to
trade
> >doing lessons with another family is a good >topic for the unschooling
list,
> >or a topic on which someone will get >teaching-oriented advice.
>
> I would not suggest such a thing, nor would I suggest to anyone that
anything they ask about is not a good topic, because all questions are
valid, except those left unasked. Life is learning, and we dont find out
the answers until we ask the questions, ofcourse my response directly to her
would have been a bit more constructive, such as explaining to her how we go
about learning math in my unschooling household, not criticizing her choice
to ask a question on this list.
>
> <<Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her
daughter
> does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what she
> calls it...>>
>
> >I think it matters on an unschooling list.
>
> Her household doesnt live on this list, and frankly I dont choose my words
to 'fit' anyone elses ideas or use words that others think are more
appropriate.
>
> If people say<< If you don't do lessons, then it does not apply
> to you. >>
> or
> "If your kids go to school every day, then it doesn't apply to you"
> or
> "If your kids are committed to doing ABeka, this it doesn't apply to you,"
>
> >then I bet someone is going to say >
> >something about unschooling.
>
> Ofcourse, and suggesting ways in which math is more naturally learned as
opposed to lessons is a wonderful response. Not exactly what was done tho
was it? I believe her statement was meant to say just that, if my question
doesnt apply to how YOU choose to unschool then no response is necessary.
Ofcourse there will always have to be these lil comments wont there?
>
> >And I don't think "Look out
> >here we go again.." would be a useful >comment when they do.
>
> >Sandra
>
> No its more useful to pick apart why they chose to call it a lesson, when
in fact it was an actual lesson book she was learning from. My comment was
intended to do just exactly what it obviously did. Now if we are done
snipping, can we get back to the discussion?
>
> Kate
>
>
>
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> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
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> [email protected]
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>
>
sharon childs
What I said was that Chaelene enjoys doing workbooks sometimes because she
says they are like puzzles or games. I have only gotten her the fun ones
with the stickers and different activities included.
I use words like *lessons*, *education* and things of that sort simply
because I have not "learned" new words that fit more neatly into what I am
doing now.
I have had enough posts come to me from people who are positive that the one
or two negatives are certainly not worth my concern.
Sharon
says they are like puzzles or games. I have only gotten her the fun ones
with the stickers and different activities included.
I use words like *lessons*, *education* and things of that sort simply
because I have not "learned" new words that fit more neatly into what I am
doing now.
I have had enough posts come to me from people who are positive that the one
or two negatives are certainly not worth my concern.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kate" <kate_odriscoll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
> Does anyone actually KNOW if this child asked for this lesson book or not?
or is it just a typical practice to jump the second this word lesson is
'spoken'?
>
>
> Obviously whatever I have to say on this issue is going to get feathers
ruffled, I have accepted this, or I wouldn't still be here. There is some
fantastic information, for the most part. I am saddened however to see the
degradation of topics, when a person comes up with a question about how to
get a 'lesson' across, I would be the first person to give examples of how
we learn in our home without the need for lessons or workbooks, and also
plenty of examples where my children choose to use them, ask for them when
we are in a bookstore, and guess what folks .. I don't say to them "ohhh
heaven forbid NOOOOOOO we are unschoolers, its a horrible thing to learn
from a workbook or lesson book....bite your tongue child" I happily
purchase the book for them and let them mess around with it if they wish.
>
> No one has a clue if this was the situation or not, just alot of
assumptions, and the usual high horse comments and criticisms. That is what
I was referring to.
>
> And this is the last I have to say on the subject.
>
> Kate
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gruvystarchild
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:12 PM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
>
>
> "Look out
> here we go again..
> Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her
> daughter
> does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what
> she calls
> it..."
>
> Then what is the purpose of having an unschooling support list if we
> are just going to say "hurray for you" to anyone coming here?
> I think we need to remember that this is an unschooing support and
> discussion list. Otherwise let's just invite a bunch of ps'ers,
> teachers, whomever and say "yay for everyone".
> When something flies in the face of unschooling it needs to be
> pointed out.
> Not because anyone is saying that they shouldn't do things their way,
> but some things aren't conducive to unschooling and thank GOODNESS
> people were willing to point those things out to me!!!
> If a person doesn't want to hear how their ideas do/do not help with
> joyful unschooling they can ignore the advice given.
> It's detrimental to this list to act like anything we do as parents
> or homeschoolers is just fine and have all of us stick our heads in
> the sand and not respond with ideas and advice when something smacks
> of school mentality.
> Ren
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
gruvystarchild
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@u...>
wrote:
think my posts are detrimental to the listI am sorry you think my
methods are incorrect and unacceptable and that you
think my posts are detrimental to the list"
Where on earth did I say anything about your posts being detrimental?
I said, it is detrimental to this list for us to ignore comments that
are in direct conflict with unschooling ideas and not say
something!!!!
Do whatever you choose in your home. That's not my business.
But when you bring information to an UNSCHOOLING support list I WILL
give input about unschooling.
If you don't want input on unschooling (no, not ps, not
homeschooling, UNSCHOOLING) then don't read my posts....you might
have to delete a whole lot of other posts too.
Ren
wrote:
>and that you
> > I am sorry you think my methods are incorrect and unacceptable
think my posts are detrimental to the listI am sorry you think my
methods are incorrect and unacceptable and that you
think my posts are detrimental to the list"
Where on earth did I say anything about your posts being detrimental?
I said, it is detrimental to this list for us to ignore comments that
are in direct conflict with unschooling ideas and not say
something!!!!
Do whatever you choose in your home. That's not my business.
But when you bring information to an UNSCHOOLING support list I WILL
give input about unschooling.
If you don't want input on unschooling (no, not ps, not
homeschooling, UNSCHOOLING) then don't read my posts....you might
have to delete a whole lot of other posts too.
Ren
gruvystarchild
i
or two negatives are certainly not worth my concern."
By your responses it seems you are concerned.
I don't understand why it is taken as negativity when someone
question why you would want to "trade lessons". You cited specific
subject matters and asked if it was a good idea to trade with another
parent.
My advice was that this line of thought may be impeding a bubbly,
joyful unschooling method.
I did not tell you to do it my way...I was answering in support of
unschooling which is not exactly lesson oriented.
It's not just your wording of thoughts (which is all we have to go on
by the way) it was the idea itself being discussed.
Why do you take that as negativity?
I am not telling you how to do anything. If you are happy, your
children are happy....great!
But you came to an unschooling list and asked if you should trade
lessons with another parent.
I did not say "put away the workbooks"....they are a valid option for
anyone that is interested. Just as TV, games, books and the entire
world are options.
Why are my words getting so twisted?
What do you want from this list?
Did you want me to say "YES, trade lessons in math for lessons in
history with another parent"?
Because if that's what you're looking for, I can't help you.
If you're truly interested in hearing what has worked for other
families that have been unschooling, I'm happy to help.
I am truly curious what kind of answer would have been deemed
appropriate.
Ren
> >that the one
> >
> >I have had enough posts come to me from people who are positive
or two negatives are certainly not worth my concern."
By your responses it seems you are concerned.
I don't understand why it is taken as negativity when someone
question why you would want to "trade lessons". You cited specific
subject matters and asked if it was a good idea to trade with another
parent.
My advice was that this line of thought may be impeding a bubbly,
joyful unschooling method.
I did not tell you to do it my way...I was answering in support of
unschooling which is not exactly lesson oriented.
It's not just your wording of thoughts (which is all we have to go on
by the way) it was the idea itself being discussed.
Why do you take that as negativity?
I am not telling you how to do anything. If you are happy, your
children are happy....great!
But you came to an unschooling list and asked if you should trade
lessons with another parent.
I did not say "put away the workbooks"....they are a valid option for
anyone that is interested. Just as TV, games, books and the entire
world are options.
Why are my words getting so twisted?
What do you want from this list?
Did you want me to say "YES, trade lessons in math for lessons in
history with another parent"?
Because if that's what you're looking for, I can't help you.
If you're truly interested in hearing what has worked for other
families that have been unschooling, I'm happy to help.
I am truly curious what kind of answer would have been deemed
appropriate.
Ren
> >Service.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >line! ~~~
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Unschooling-dotcom-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >
> >
sharon childs
I know it has been big changes for me. I have learned lots and am trying to
learn lots more. Some things I don't understand yet or don't quite
understand how or why they might work but thanks to all the helpful and
patient people on this list I have learned very much. I know there are many
many silent lurkers out there who are learning just as much and just as fast
as me.
So to all of them,,,,,"We are so cool huh?!"
And to all you helpful and patient unschoolers I say ......Thank you, thank
you.
Sharon
learn lots more. Some things I don't understand yet or don't quite
understand how or why they might work but thanks to all the helpful and
patient people on this list I have learned very much. I know there are many
many silent lurkers out there who are learning just as much and just as fast
as me.
So to all of them,,,,,"We are so cool huh?!"
And to all you helpful and patient unschoolers I say ......Thank you, thank
you.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
> Perhaps she is taking the first steps to unschooling. Perhaps with
> encouragement they will come all the way over the bridge to unschooling.
> Perhaps answering those kinds of questions with support, explanations and
> encouragement instead of "you aren't an unschooler, good-bye" might bring
> them a step closer. Perhaps an explanation of deschooling for both parent
> and child would have been more helpful.
>
> Perhaps, just perhaps we could all just let the one liners go and not feel
> like we have to start the whole defend a particular definition of
> unschooling AGAIN.
>
> IF one reads the posts from Sharon from the beginning to the most current
> (not necessary those that have appeared lately since Yahoo is off and
> running arse backwards again!), you would see what I see, big steps from
the
> original posts which were very hser-ish to more and more seeing the
benefits
> of unschooling.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:12 PM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
>
>
> > "Look out
> > here we go again..
> > Perhaps she is quite happy with how she is doing this. Perhaps her
> > daughter
> > does enjoy it, and perhaps it doesnt matter one way or the other what
> > she calls
> > it..."
> >
> > Then what is the purpose of having an unschooling support list if we
> > are just going to say "hurray for you" to anyone coming here?
> > I think we need to remember that this is an unschooing support and
> > discussion list. Otherwise let's just invite a bunch of ps'ers,
> > teachers, whomever and say "yay for everyone".
> > When something flies in the face of unschooling it needs to be
> > pointed out.
> > Not because anyone is saying that they shouldn't do things their way,
> > but some things aren't conducive to unschooling and thank GOODNESS
> > people were willing to point those things out to me!!!
> > If a person doesn't want to hear how their ideas do/do not help with
> > joyful unschooling they can ignore the advice given.
> > It's detrimental to this list to act like anything we do as parents
> > or homeschoolers is just fine and have all of us stick our heads in
> > the sand and not respond with ideas and advice when something smacks
> > of school mentality.
> > Ren
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
sharon childs
Sandra,
Attacking other peoples posts and comments is in no way productive to this
list. Do you hold a position that I am not aware of on this list that makes
it necessary for you to decide who has the right to say what and what is or
is not allowed to be said?
I would not ask except that it was my post you picked apart right down to
the point of actually stating whether or not I even had the right to post
it.
I think this is quite detrimental.
Sharon
Attacking other peoples posts and comments is in no way productive to this
list. Do you hold a position that I am not aware of on this list that makes
it necessary for you to decide who has the right to say what and what is or
is not allowed to be said?
I would not ask except that it was my post you picked apart right down to
the point of actually stating whether or not I even had the right to post
it.
I think this is quite detrimental.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] math experience
>
> In a message dated 4/20/02 6:33:32 PM, kate_odriscoll@... writes:
>
> << I would be the first person to give examples of how we learn in our
home
> without the need for lessons or workbooks >>
>
> Go for it!
>
> << I don't say to them "ohhh heaven forbid NOOOOOOO we are unschoolers,
its a
> horrible thing to learn from a workbook or lesson book....bite your tongue
> child" I happily purchase the book for them and let them mess around with
it
> if they wish.>>
>
> Letting them mess around with it is not what was being discussed, it
seemed.
> It was "doing lessons."
>
> <<No one has a clue if this was the situation or not, just alot of
> assumptions, and the usual high horse comments and criticisms. >>
>
> Having read all of the posters writings here up to that point, I felt I
had
> more than just assumptions.
>
> "High horse comments" is an insult, and not productive. Please discuss
> unschooling and not other people.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/02 10:15:23 PM, sugarcrafter@... writes:
<< Whatever!! Does that change it or does it just make it easier for YOU to
deal with? >>
Until the parent/teacher/facilitator's understanding of the differences
develops, school is still there.
It makes it easier to see and understand and feel and trust the difference if
you change terminology to match philosophy.
If in cases of "I taught him..." I change my thinking and speaking to "He
learned..." than the focus is on my child. And very often he learned without
a bit of input from me. He had input from someone, maybe, but the important
thing is "He learned."
<<I am not going to *avoid* those words just
because you have problems dealing with them. >>
It's not about anyone else here. If I had never been born or if I was still
teaching public school and had never had children, the fact that words DO
have power and they DO shape thought would still be true.
Sandra
<< Whatever!! Does that change it or does it just make it easier for YOU to
deal with? >>
Until the parent/teacher/facilitator's understanding of the differences
develops, school is still there.
It makes it easier to see and understand and feel and trust the difference if
you change terminology to match philosophy.
If in cases of "I taught him..." I change my thinking and speaking to "He
learned..." than the focus is on my child. And very often he learned without
a bit of input from me. He had input from someone, maybe, but the important
thing is "He learned."
<<I am not going to *avoid* those words just
because you have problems dealing with them. >>
It's not about anyone else here. If I had never been born or if I was still
teaching public school and had never had children, the fact that words DO
have power and they DO shape thought would still be true.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/02 11:10:46 PM, sugarcrafter@... writes:
<< I would not ask except that it was my post you picked apart right down to
the point of actually stating whether or not I even had the right to post
it. >>
I don't believe that was true at all. I was suggesting that criticizing
unschooling responses was not good for the list.
You can ask any kinds of questions, but you can't special-order the answer
you want and expect unschooling answers to fade into the background.
Sandra
<< I would not ask except that it was my post you picked apart right down to
the point of actually stating whether or not I even had the right to post
it. >>
I don't believe that was true at all. I was suggesting that criticizing
unschooling responses was not good for the list.
You can ask any kinds of questions, but you can't special-order the answer
you want and expect unschooling answers to fade into the background.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/2002 4:43:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
kate_odriscoll@... writes:
doing a math workbook (my youngest does this - she sits up all NIGHT doing
math workbooks sometimes)? Then we call it "playing" when the kid is doing a
puzzle or playing a board game? They just aren't that different IF the kid is
having a good time. It is like distinguishing between doing vocabulary lesson
worksheets and a good crossword puzzle. If either one is fun and the kid
wants to do it and initiates it or jumps on the idea, then what's the
difference? Why call one a lesson and the other play?
I think it is just because we often still think of things that look like
school as "lessons" and things that look like what most kids do after school,
on weekends, and during vacations as "play."
One of the major points of unschooling is not separating learning into
"lessons" versus "play."
--pam
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kate_odriscoll@... writes:
> <<Some of us do help them do lessons, some children enjoy theIts a good question -- why do we call it "lessons" if the kid is having fun
> workbooks and things of that sort. Chaelene just finished one on telling
> time and enjoyed every page.
> >>
>
> If she's having sufficient fun, why don't you consider it playing instead
> of
> "doing lessons"?
doing a math workbook (my youngest does this - she sits up all NIGHT doing
math workbooks sometimes)? Then we call it "playing" when the kid is doing a
puzzle or playing a board game? They just aren't that different IF the kid is
having a good time. It is like distinguishing between doing vocabulary lesson
worksheets and a good crossword puzzle. If either one is fun and the kid
wants to do it and initiates it or jumps on the idea, then what's the
difference? Why call one a lesson and the other play?
I think it is just because we often still think of things that look like
school as "lessons" and things that look like what most kids do after school,
on weekends, and during vacations as "play."
One of the major points of unschooling is not separating learning into
"lessons" versus "play."
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/2002 5:28:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
kate_odriscoll@... writes:
- it is going to come up over and over because that is what the list is
about.
side of beef that they should not remind me that eating beef is not
vegetarian? They should just help me find what I want?
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kate_odriscoll@... writes:
> >Do you mean "here we go discussing >unschooling again"?It meant we're going to discuss what unschooling is as long as the list lasts
> >We'll do that as long as the list lasts!
>
- it is going to come up over and over because that is what the list is
about.
> I meant here we go again, instead of giving her answers to her actualSo - you're saying that if I go to the vegetarian lists and ask how to buy a
> question, we get to hear once again the definitions of 'un-schooling'
> instead of offering actual suggestions about how to go about what she was
> asking.
side of beef that they should not remind me that eating beef is not
vegetarian? They should just help me find what I want?
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]