Re: crime stats
Julie Stauffer
<<Missing people are listed as "missing".....>>
While I take your word on what you are saying, as long as reporting of
violent crime procedures stay the same over a period of time, you should
still be able to notice a rise or fall in the number of reported crimes. I
most certainly agree that a percentage of crimes are not reported due to
procedures, but overall that percentage should stay fairly constant.
Julie
While I take your word on what you are saying, as long as reporting of
violent crime procedures stay the same over a period of time, you should
still be able to notice a rise or fall in the number of reported crimes. I
most certainly agree that a percentage of crimes are not reported due to
procedures, but overall that percentage should stay fairly constant.
Julie
Lynda
The feds have pushed to lower crime rates. They offer bonuses if a city
gets their rates down. Cities actively look for ways to under report crime
so that they get that money.
And anyone who has ever worked for the government can tell you that they
spend lots of time making statistics say whatever they want them to.
It is like Dumbya's speech on tv today. He now claims that he is reponsible
for the welfare reform act of 1996. He goes on to say that there are fewer
people living below the poverty level than before he took office.
Well, stats for last year won't be out until next year because all the IRS
numbers won't be in nor will the other reporting agencies numbers.
They can all say whatever they want but that doesn't make it true.
Lynda
gets their rates down. Cities actively look for ways to under report crime
so that they get that money.
And anyone who has ever worked for the government can tell you that they
spend lots of time making statistics say whatever they want them to.
It is like Dumbya's speech on tv today. He now claims that he is reponsible
for the welfare reform act of 1996. He goes on to say that there are fewer
people living below the poverty level than before he took office.
Well, stats for last year won't be out until next year because all the IRS
numbers won't be in nor will the other reporting agencies numbers.
They can all say whatever they want but that doesn't make it true.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:51 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: crime stats
> <<Missing people are listed as "missing".....>>
>
> While I take your word on what you are saying, as long as reporting of
> violent crime procedures stay the same over a period of time, you should
> still be able to notice a rise or fall in the number of reported crimes.
I
> most certainly agree that a percentage of crimes are not reported due to
> procedures, but overall that percentage should stay fairly constant.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
sharon childs
The thing of it is they change the *reporting* rules from time to time so
you never know what counts and what does not count. I think they should
either count it all or never change how they do it.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
you never know what counts and what does not count. I think they should
either count it all or never change how they do it.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:51 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: crime stats
> <<Missing people are listed as "missing".....>>
>
> While I take your word on what you are saying, as long as reporting of
> violent crime procedures stay the same over a period of time, you should
> still be able to notice a rise or fall in the number of reported crimes.
I
> most certainly agree that a percentage of crimes are not reported due to
> procedures, but overall that percentage should stay fairly constant.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
sharon childs
Thank you Lynda for being able to put into words what has been in my mind
but for some reason the right words have not been coming.
I can see everyday what is happening around me. I see nothing declining. I
do not live in fear because I do not hide my head in the sand as to what is
going on. I am not afraid to face life or what it may hold.
Above all is my faith in God.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
but for some reason the right words have not been coming.
I can see everyday what is happening around me. I see nothing declining. I
do not live in fear because I do not hide my head in the sand as to what is
going on. I am not afraid to face life or what it may hold.
Above all is my faith in God.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: crime stats
> The feds have pushed to lower crime rates. They offer bonuses if a city
> gets their rates down. Cities actively look for ways to under report
crime
> so that they get that money.
>
> And anyone who has ever worked for the government can tell you that they
> spend lots of time making statistics say whatever they want them to.
>
> It is like Dumbya's speech on tv today. He now claims that he is
reponsible
> for the welfare reform act of 1996. He goes on to say that there are
fewer
> people living below the poverty level than before he took office.
>
> Well, stats for last year won't be out until next year because all the IRS
> numbers won't be in nor will the other reporting agencies numbers.
>
> They can all say whatever they want but that doesn't make it true.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:51 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: crime stats
>
>
> > <<Missing people are listed as "missing".....>>
> >
> > While I take your word on what you are saying, as long as reporting of
> > violent crime procedures stay the same over a period of time, you should
> > still be able to notice a rise or fall in the number of reported crimes.
> I
> > most certainly agree that a percentage of crimes are not reported due to
> > procedures, but overall that percentage should stay fairly constant.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/2002 12:00:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
sugarcrafter@... writes:
years before and after 1994 are suspect (excuse the pun <G>). The changes had
to do with how they get the crime rates for the US as a whole. Each local
jurisdiction reports, based on the very detailed requirements of the uniform
reporting law. About 95 percent of local jurisdictions report. So - to get
the numbers for the country as a whole, they have to sort of fill in the gaps
- estimate the rates for those counties, for example, that don't report. They
do this based on information from other similar local areas. The methodology
used for this estimation was changed in 1994.
I think acts of terrorism are collected in a separate database by the Justice
Department.
Since the FBI crime statistics are really intended only to look at reported
crimes, there is another database which complements it by looking at crime
from the point of view of victims. I believe it is based on surveys which
attempt to get a sense of how many unreported crimes there are. This is
called something like the National Victims of Crime Survey?? (Sorry - it has
been a while since I studied these things.)
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sugarcrafter@... writes:
> The thing of it is they change the *reporting* rules from time to time soMy understanding is that there were changes made in 1994. So comparisons of
> you never know what counts and what does not count. I think they should
> either count it all or never change how they do it.
years before and after 1994 are suspect (excuse the pun <G>). The changes had
to do with how they get the crime rates for the US as a whole. Each local
jurisdiction reports, based on the very detailed requirements of the uniform
reporting law. About 95 percent of local jurisdictions report. So - to get
the numbers for the country as a whole, they have to sort of fill in the gaps
- estimate the rates for those counties, for example, that don't report. They
do this based on information from other similar local areas. The methodology
used for this estimation was changed in 1994.
I think acts of terrorism are collected in a separate database by the Justice
Department.
Since the FBI crime statistics are really intended only to look at reported
crimes, there is another database which complements it by looking at crime
from the point of view of victims. I believe it is based on surveys which
attempt to get a sense of how many unreported crimes there are. This is
called something like the National Victims of Crime Survey?? (Sorry - it has
been a while since I studied these things.)
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 4/19/02 12:19 AM, sharon childs at sugarcrafter@... wrote:
-- about how they're changing the reporting rules?
It's hard to have a discussion based on firmly held opinions. They tend to
end up as contests of who can persist the longest rather than who can
logically support their position the strongest. ;-)
Joyce
> The thing of it is they change the *reporting* rules from time to time soCan you give us something more specific -- websites are especially handy :-)
> you never know what counts and what does not count.
-- about how they're changing the reporting rules?
It's hard to have a discussion based on firmly held opinions. They tend to
end up as contests of who can persist the longest rather than who can
logically support their position the strongest. ;-)
Joyce
sharon childs
dI believe it has been posted by somebody else 2, 3 or 4 times during the
last few days. Sorry but I have small children and not as much time to sit
at this keyboard.
Somebody else has written about how they put the unsolved homicides*here*
and something else *there* etc.
Perhaps you could go to the archives and read back over the last few days?
They tend to
have not asked you to supply your proof to back up your theories or
opinions.
No matter what anybody writes about you just seem to keep throwing things
back. So I am wondering.....
What is with this?
Sharon
last few days. Sorry but I have small children and not as much time to sit
at this keyboard.
Somebody else has written about how they put the unsolved homicides*here*
and something else *there* etc.
Perhaps you could go to the archives and read back over the last few days?
They tend to
> end up as contests of who can persist the longest rather than who canAHH! Here we go with *opinions* again. I am not having a contest here. I
> logically support their position the strongest. ;-)
have not asked you to supply your proof to back up your theories or
opinions.
No matter what anybody writes about you just seem to keep throwing things
back. So I am wondering.....
What is with this?
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fetteroll" <fetteroll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: crime stats
> on 4/19/02 12:19 AM, sharon childs at sugarcrafter@... wrote:
>
> > The thing of it is they change the *reporting* rules from time to time
so
> > you never know what counts and what does not count.
>
> Can you give us something more specific -- websites are especially handy
:-)
> -- about how they're changing the reporting rules?
>
> It's hard to have a discussion based on firmly held opinions. They tend to
> end up as contests of who can persist the longest rather than who can
> logically support their position the strongest. ;-)
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
sharon childs
SORRY, forgot to sign that reply I just sent.
Sharon
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: <PSoroosh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: crime stats
> In a message dated 4/19/2002 12:00:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> sugarcrafter@... writes:
>
>
> > The thing of it is they change the *reporting* rules from time to time
so
> > you never know what counts and what does not count. I think they should
> > either count it all or never change how they do it.
>
> My understanding is that there were changes made in 1994. So comparisons
of
> years before and after 1994 are suspect (excuse the pun <G>). The changes
had
> to do with how they get the crime rates for the US as a whole. Each local
> jurisdiction reports, based on the very detailed requirements of the
uniform
> reporting law. About 95 percent of local jurisdictions report. So - to get
> the numbers for the country as a whole, they have to sort of fill in the
gaps
> - estimate the rates for those counties, for example, that don't report.
They
> do this based on information from other similar local areas. The
methodology
> used for this estimation was changed in 1994.
>
> I think acts of terrorism are collected in a separate database by the
Justice
> Department.
>
> Since the FBI crime statistics are really intended only to look at
reported
> crimes, there is another database which complements it by looking at crime
> from the point of view of victims. I believe it is based on surveys which
> attempt to get a sense of how many unreported crimes there are. This is
> called something like the National Victims of Crime Survey?? (Sorry - it
has
> been a while since I studied these things.)
>
> --pamS
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Fetteroll
on 4/19/02 11:17 AM, sharon childs at sugarcrafter@... wrote:
In discussions about unquantifiable things: which flowers are prettiest, who
makes the best pizza, I think opinions work well.
In discussions about quantifiable things like breastfeeding, learning, crime
to mention a few, I think opinions need to be examined and questioned and
supported and refuted or they are no more than just words.
If we were discussing learning and a teacher came on and said children
needed to be taught to read, should her opinion be accepted just because she
held it?
Many of us at one time held the opinion that school was the best place to
get an education. No matter how strongly we held that opinion, no matter how
strongly lots of people continue to hold it, what is that opinion worth in a
discussion of how children learn best? Unless it can be supported with logic
it isn't worth the electrons it's written with.
Some people don't enjoy debates. They can skip them. (If we remember to
change subject headers.)
Some people do enjoy debates. So the debates need to be here for them.
Some people enjoy "this is what worked for my family", days in the life,
suggestions and so forth. Those need to be here for them. And those who
don't like them, should skip them so others can enjoy them. If we try to
limit the list to just the types of things we need, then we limit it's
usefulness for other people.
I think *especially* on a list covering a topic that is cutting edge debate
is essential. It's one thing to believe unschooling can work. It's another
thing entirely to be able to support your claim against opposition. If
someone doesn't care about supporting their beliefs and just wants to hold
them, so be it. They can drop out and stick to the other discussions. But
for some people it's essential, personally or legislatively or
philosophically, to be able to defend their beliefs.
Debate is useful even when it isn't specifically about unschooling because
then it becomes about how to think critically, which is also unschooling.
Joyce
> AHH! Here we go with *opinions* again. I am not having a contest here. IAre you saying that you would prefer that we just trade opinions?
> have not asked you to supply your proof to back up your theories or
> opinions.
In discussions about unquantifiable things: which flowers are prettiest, who
makes the best pizza, I think opinions work well.
In discussions about quantifiable things like breastfeeding, learning, crime
to mention a few, I think opinions need to be examined and questioned and
supported and refuted or they are no more than just words.
If we were discussing learning and a teacher came on and said children
needed to be taught to read, should her opinion be accepted just because she
held it?
Many of us at one time held the opinion that school was the best place to
get an education. No matter how strongly we held that opinion, no matter how
strongly lots of people continue to hold it, what is that opinion worth in a
discussion of how children learn best? Unless it can be supported with logic
it isn't worth the electrons it's written with.
Some people don't enjoy debates. They can skip them. (If we remember to
change subject headers.)
Some people do enjoy debates. So the debates need to be here for them.
Some people enjoy "this is what worked for my family", days in the life,
suggestions and so forth. Those need to be here for them. And those who
don't like them, should skip them so others can enjoy them. If we try to
limit the list to just the types of things we need, then we limit it's
usefulness for other people.
I think *especially* on a list covering a topic that is cutting edge debate
is essential. It's one thing to believe unschooling can work. It's another
thing entirely to be able to support your claim against opposition. If
someone doesn't care about supporting their beliefs and just wants to hold
them, so be it. They can drop out and stick to the other discussions. But
for some people it's essential, personally or legislatively or
philosophically, to be able to defend their beliefs.
Debate is useful even when it isn't specifically about unschooling because
then it becomes about how to think critically, which is also unschooling.
Joyce
sharon childs
Okay I stand corrected and apologize. I was just getting the impression
that you were criticizing and finding fault with every post I was posting,
regardless of the subject.
Sorry for becoming defensive. Sorry also for not realizing you were the
list moderator and giving you the proper respect.
I will keep quiet if I can not give better facts.
Sharon
that you were criticizing and finding fault with every post I was posting,
regardless of the subject.
Sorry for becoming defensive. Sorry also for not realizing you were the
list moderator and giving you the proper respect.
I will keep quiet if I can not give better facts.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fetteroll" <fetteroll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: crime stats
> on 4/19/02 11:17 AM, sharon childs at sugarcrafter@... wrote:
>
> > AHH! Here we go with *opinions* again. I am not having a contest
here. I
> > have not asked you to supply your proof to back up your theories or
> > opinions.
>
> Are you saying that you would prefer that we just trade opinions?
>
> In discussions about unquantifiable things: which flowers are prettiest,
who
> makes the best pizza, I think opinions work well.
>
> In discussions about quantifiable things like breastfeeding, learning,
crime
> to mention a few, I think opinions need to be examined and questioned and
> supported and refuted or they are no more than just words.
>
> If we were discussing learning and a teacher came on and said children
> needed to be taught to read, should her opinion be accepted just because
she
> held it?
>
> Many of us at one time held the opinion that school was the best place to
> get an education. No matter how strongly we held that opinion, no matter
how
> strongly lots of people continue to hold it, what is that opinion worth in
a
> discussion of how children learn best? Unless it can be supported with
logic
> it isn't worth the electrons it's written with.
>
> Some people don't enjoy debates. They can skip them. (If we remember to
> change subject headers.)
>
> Some people do enjoy debates. So the debates need to be here for them.
>
> Some people enjoy "this is what worked for my family", days in the life,
> suggestions and so forth. Those need to be here for them. And those who
> don't like them, should skip them so others can enjoy them. If we try to
> limit the list to just the types of things we need, then we limit it's
> usefulness for other people.
>
> I think *especially* on a list covering a topic that is cutting edge
debate
> is essential. It's one thing to believe unschooling can work. It's another
> thing entirely to be able to support your claim against opposition. If
> someone doesn't care about supporting their beliefs and just wants to hold
> them, so be it. They can drop out and stick to the other discussions. But
> for some people it's essential, personally or legislatively or
> philosophically, to be able to defend their beliefs.
>
> Debate is useful even when it isn't specifically about unschooling because
> then it becomes about how to think critically, which is also unschooling.
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/2002 8:38:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sugarcrafter@... writes:
Kate Davis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sugarcrafter@... writes:
> Sorry also for not realizing you were thelol.
> list moderator and giving you the proper respect.
>
Kate Davis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]