sharon childs

Hello,
My name is Sharon and I am new to the list. I have been reading the posts
with much interest. I do have a question and I am asking this with a
sincere heart, no sarcasm or anything like that. I am educating my 10 year
old grand-daughter (or tryng to) and while I am very interested in this
unschooling method I am wondering how you fit reading and writing etc. into
the picture. My grand-daughter has learning disabilities (dyslexia) and
public schools were a nightmare, I will spare you the details about that but
at age 10 her reading is nowhere near what they would call "grade level".
Actually her and I don't do grades, except for exemption forms. Raising my
own children I hated how they grouped kids into grades and assembly lined
them through school.

I like the sounds of what you people are doing but I do want her reading and
writing so she can have the ability to learn on her own. Without starting
any controversies or anything I was wondering if any of you who have done
the unschooling thing for a while (years?) would kind of give me a brief
run-down of how you work these things into their educations without a
structured type program.

I would really love to find something that works for us. Homeschooling has
worked far better than formal schooling but this is not something we are
entirely happy about. Being told that it is time to sit and work in
workbooks is no better than the bell ringing at play time.

I am hoping it is not to late to teach this old dog a few new tricks.

Sharon

----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Not an unschooler =)


> In a message dated 4/13/02 6:01:21 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> lurine@... writes:
>
>
> >
> > Which reminds me, what is wrong with playing with dirt and rocks for
weeks
> > at a time? Kids with imagination build whole cities, dig caves, build
> > castles with the rocks, become interested in the flora and fauna around
> > them, bring far too many bugs in the house to find out what they are
(o.k.,
> > so I don't like bugs in my house <g>), climb trees, build tree houses,
kick
> > a ball, run, jump, try doing gymnastics, ride bicycles, roller blade,
ride
> > scooters, play Evil Knivel (loose two front teeth %-{ ), teach the dog
> > circus tricks, make mud pies, climb fences, try to walk a tight rope,
play
> > Robin Hood and sword fight, play with dolls, play with cars, try rubbing
two
> > sticks together to start a camp fire, collect rocks that are
> > different/pretty, play Army, make a rope swing, collect flowers (I'm
running
> > out of vases to put them in and the house smells soooo good, Spring is
> > here!), play house, skip rope and the list is endless. Just plain old
> > unbridled imagination and doesn't take parent coerced stimulus.
> >
>
> That's a lot more than just sticks and rocks.
>
> If they have rope and bikes and cars, roller blades, scooters, a dog,
trees,
> dolls and flowers, that does give them a lot of options. And I presume
the
> parents provided those things.
>
> I was never talking about "parent coerced stimulus" and I don't think
anyone
> here really thought that "providing opportunities and resources"
translates
> reasonabley to "parent coerced stimulus."
>
> If a family had no trees, flowers, bikes, cars, roller blades, scooters,
> dogs, dolls, and wouldn't let their kids play with rope or hammers, nails
and
> boards, I think that family would not be providing the optimal unschooling
> environment, and if a kid had a really boring back yard, a boring
> inside-of-house, and the parent wasn't offering to take him elsewhere,
they
> could do better.
>
> I think leaving children to their own devices works better when the kids
have
> lots of ideas, materials and support when they want it.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/13/02 9:49:43 PM, sugarcrafter@... writes:

<< I like the sounds of what you people are doing but I do want her reading
and
writing so she can have the ability to learn on her own. >>

She can learn lots before she can read. If you put reading ahead of learning
the other things, that could be really limiting.

There's an article by Carol Rice about her late-reading children. I know
these kids. One is a really great cook (vegan and vegetarian). One has
bicycle trophies galore. One is extremely knowledgeable about flight,
planes, aero-everything, and at 18 he was working full time at REI. I don't
know what the youngest's bragging-point is--I could ask my boys, but one's at
a birthday party and one's at a gaming shop.

The article first appeared in a New Mexico newsletter, but is also online at
http://www.unschooling.com/library/index.shtml

[email protected]

On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:49:45 -0700 "sharon childs"
<sugarcrafter@...> writes:
>I am educating my 10 year
> old grand-daughter (or tryng to) and while I am very interested in
> this unschooling method I am wondering how you fit reading and writing
> etc. into the picture.

They fit in right where they fit into life... we read and write when it's
useful and/or fun. My daughter reads a lot, a mishmash of novels and
comics. She rarely writes... sometimes she make her own comics, once she
wrote a "Dear Veronica" letter (Veronica from the Archies comics now has
her own advice column), often she adds things to grocery lists, and very
occasionally she'll wrote a poem or start a story. She isn't writing or
spelling at "grade level". She has, however, learned an awful lot of
other things.... and I know that someday she'll write well.

Does your granddaughter want to work on reading and writing? Actually, if
she were my child, I would worry most about helping her just recover from
school right now, help her try to feel safe in learning and growing and
being, and help her to feel good in her own skin.

And kudos for looking into unschooling, and for asking questions, and for
trying to do the best you can for your granddaughter. Your post just
sounded so loving and caring. I wish my daughter had a grandma like
you....

Dar

sharon childs

> Does your granddaughter want to work on reading and writing? Actually, if
> she were my child, I would worry most about helping her just recover from
> school right now, help her try to feel safe in learning and growing and
> being, and help her to feel good in her own skin.

She enjoys reading words, phrases, signs and easy things like that.
Actually her reading has improved in the last few weeks. She detests
writing ANYTHING and it is very very slow and difficult for her. Her
writing looks more like a first graders. Her math is about third grade level
probably. She is learning and progressing. It is very slow yet steady. I
do feel good about that.

She was not in public school very long. We tried it a couple of times but I
didn't like the way she was treated and she would dissolve into tears and/or
sobs as soon as she got home.

Her father sometimes is on her back and "threatens" public school if he
thinks she and I are not doing as much school work as he thinks we should.
Normally this happens when he has gotten static from an outsider about the
fact that she doesn't go to school. He is a single father so everybody
thinks he needs their advice.

Thanks for the replies.

Sharon



Sharon

Bonni Sollars

"Then other
times I wonder why I am so concerned, not everybody in the world has to
be a
great reader."
Sharon, that is absolutely the truth. My dad never learned to read more
than a road sign, and even that he had to ask his "co-pilot" to make
sure. Yet, he followed his passion for horses and became a very popular
and successful rancher. He had an accountant when he was single, then a
wife with money smarts, to pay his bills. My husband is not a very good
reader or writer, although he can do both. He still gets confused by a
lot of words. But he does well as a journeyman in the construction
field, and as a coach. His brother is illiterate, probably from being
beaten by his dad when he didn't do well in school. But my husband
apprenticed him in the trade, and now he is completely self-sufficient
and self employed and even has been foreman on a lot of jobs. The reason
my husband apprenticed him was because he was homeless after getting out
of jail. He was an alcoholic. Now he's been clean and sober for over
six years. I've worked for a lot of doctors who were terrible at writing
and spelling. There are organizations that specialize in helping people
with dyslexia learn to read. I'm sure you could find one in your area.
But I wouldn't do that for many years, since there is plenty of time for
her to develop other interests right now. Some people outgrow dyslexia.
Sometimes it is better to focus on strengths rather than on weaknesses.
No need to waste time wearing her out on reading. I'm thinking of a
workout. They say to work out the smaller, easier muscles first ,
because the biggest muscles make you tired, so do them last. My husband
and his siblings did not learn to read until late, and were always
humiliated for being behind everyone else. What would have happened if
they had been left on their own to learn? It couldn't have been any
worse than it was with all the humiliation and stress of being forced to
read in front of the class and coming home with bad grades. My husband
learned to read when he was seventeen and wanted to read the Bible. My
sister in law said that in junior high when they had to read in front of
the class, she would count how many paragraphs before they would get to
her turn to read out loud, and she would practice her paragraph over and
over so she memorized it before her turn. She didn't learn anything, she
just put all her focus on not being humiliated. Now, as an adult, she
writes the most beautiful poetry and can read books without a glitch. My
dad lied and had friends cheat for him so he graduated. Why not just let
him stay out of school and play with horses, which he did anyway by
skipping school. Everyone has weaknesses and strengths, and we should
focus on strengths in others. School means nothing. Passion means
everything. Grades mean nothing. Acceptance means everything. Okay I'm
done.
Bonni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lyonness

<<My grand-daughter has learning disabilities (dyslexia) and public schools
were a nightmare,>>>>>

I have first hand knowledge of this!!!!!! I think the single most important
thing is for your grandaughter to be aware that she has dyslexia, and
understand what it is, since it will be with her for life. The other thing
that is important is to remember that she will most likely read slower until
she gets used to sorting it out, if you push her she'll just not read.
Writting you usually have to double check to make sure it is all correct, I
don't on email tho, so you'll see many of my errors. My spell checker isn't
working, and i'm usually in a hurry when doing email anyway.

Bec,
Camano Island Homeschoolers,
Washington Unschoolers,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Washingtonunschoolers/


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sharon childs

> don't on email tho, so you'll see many of my errors. My spell checker
isn't
> working, and i'm usually in a hurry when doing email anyway.

LOL me too. Actually my spelling is pretty good, my fingers just won't
always behave!

Thing about the dyslexia is that her father has it also. When he was
growing up homeschooling or unschooling was only an option if you were
willing to spend time in jail. School was just someplace where he spent
time with his friends. He mentally dropped out before he was the age
Chaelene is now. He felt that he was stupid because everybody was finished
with their papers when he was only on about the second problem. It takes
him 10 to 15 minutes to read one type written page.

Even though you can discuss it with them and talk about it, it is still
difficult for them to understand just what you are talking about when it is
all they know. Chaelene actually sees the letters moving and changing
positions while she is looking at them. Some days she does pretty well and
other days she will look at a two letter word like "no" and think it says
"on". It gets worse with the bigger words. I hate to say it but sometimes
it is hard to be patient and I feel like I am going to scream. Then other
times I wonder why I am so concerned, not everybody in the world has to be a
great reader.

BTW. . .My baby chicks are outside now and life is much more pleasant.
Quieter and smells better too!!

Sharon

[email protected]

On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:12:43 -0700 "Lyonness" <Lyonness@...>
writes:
> I have first hand knowledge of this!!!!!! I think the single most
important
> thing is for your grandaughter to be aware that she has dyslexia, and
> understand what it is, since it will be with her for life.

My brother was disgnosed with dyslexia when he was 7, and carried the
label into his early twenties. Then he left the "system" and, without a
few years, became a proficient writer and reader, even reading for fun. I
think a lot of it was that he now needed those skills for real life, and
then enabled him to get through some of the blocks he'd put up, and learn
other ways. He says that he doesn't have a learning disability now, and I
agree.

I believe A. S. Neill said they'd never had a child who didn't become a
proficient reader at Summerhill.

> Writting you usually have to double check to make sure it is all
correct, I
> don't on email tho, so you'll see many of my errors. My spell checker
isn't
> working, and i'm usually in a hurry when doing email anyway.

If a child is writing something formal then I agree, as long as the child
wants your help. I think people often judge a writer based on grammar
and spelling. Even if a person's ideas have merit, if his writing is full
of errors they're often discounted. I sent an email today with an extra
comma (I edited the sentence and didn't erase it) and it's been bothering
me ever since I saw it come through.

Dar, the slightly obsessive :-)

Lynda

Have you read Holt's books? I never remember the titles but in one he
discusses moving letters.

I'm sure someone on the list knows which one I am talking about.

Talking about what was happening with dyxlexia really helped my eldest son.
Once he understood what it was, then he stopped beating himself up. I also
got him a list of famous folks that are dyslexic. I don't remember all of
them but President Ford and Cher were two of them. He liked the idea that
dyslexia wasn't something that limited who or what you could do or become.

Lynda

P.S. I know exactly what you mean about moving the chicks outside <g> The
sweet smell of no more chicks indoors <<bg>>
----- Original Message -----
From: "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] question on unschooling methods.


> > don't on email tho, so you'll see many of my errors. My spell checker
> isn't
> > working, and i'm usually in a hurry when doing email anyway.
>
> LOL me too. Actually my spelling is pretty good, my fingers just won't
> always behave!
>
> Thing about the dyslexia is that her father has it also. When he was
> growing up homeschooling or unschooling was only an option if you were
> willing to spend time in jail. School was just someplace where he spent
> time with his friends. He mentally dropped out before he was the age
> Chaelene is now. He felt that he was stupid because everybody was
finished
> with their papers when he was only on about the second problem. It takes
> him 10 to 15 minutes to read one type written page.
>
> Even though you can discuss it with them and talk about it, it is still
> difficult for them to understand just what you are talking about when it
is
> all they know. Chaelene actually sees the letters moving and changing
> positions while she is looking at them. Some days she does pretty well
and
> other days she will look at a two letter word like "no" and think it says
> "on". It gets worse with the bigger words. I hate to say it but
sometimes
> it is hard to be patient and I feel like I am going to scream. Then other
> times I wonder why I am so concerned, not everybody in the world has to be
a
> great reader.
>
> BTW. . .My baby chicks are outside now and life is much more pleasant.
> Quieter and smells better too!!
>
> Sharon
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

I'd suggest that if reading is going to be so difficult as it seems with
Chaelene (GREAT NAME, by the way), that you focus on making sure she knows
how to learn in other ways. I'd subscribe to books on tape!!! That would be
the most important thing - because she can learn so much from listening - you
don't want her reading disability to get in the way of her learning stuff
that she'd be interested in if she didn't have learning problems. If reading
will always be hard for her - then she needs to have adaptive skills -
listening to books on tape is a significant one. And I'd find ways to make
sure we had lots of time to go to museums where there are displays and
interactive stuff. And I'd do hands-on science stuff and have lots of art
supplies.

-pamS

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/13/02 11:05:17 PM, sugarcrafter@... writes:

<< She is learning and progressing. It is very slow yet steady. I
do feel good about that. >>

Often it's not steady but in bursts--not only homeschooling, but kids at
school will learn in bursts. It doesn't seem like bursts, because the
schooldays and vacations and report cards keep their steady rhythm without
regard for actual human factors.

<<Her father sometimes is on her back and "threatens" public school if he
thinks she and I are not doing as much school work as he thinks we should.
Normally this happens when he has gotten static from an outsider about the
fact that she doesn't go to school. >>>

If it were me, I would tell him he needs to educate himself about
homeschooling to the point that he can respond to those people with
confidence. Buy some back issues of Home Education Magazine, and maybe a
book or two (men tend to like Guterson's -Family Matters_), and he needs to
read them and maybe carry them around to show to people who criticize or
question.

Whether he reads them or not, it will get him off your back about it. It's
the "You're not qualified to judge" move, which sometimes goes "I'd be glad
to discuss it after you finish reading these books."

Sandra

rumpleteasermom

I think avery important thing too is to make sure she understands that
she HAS dyslexia and *not* that she IS dyslexic. I know it sounds
like a picky word thing but I think it is important to realize that a
child has a problem not is a problem. Important for them to realize
too.

Bridget


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Lyonness" <Lyonness@k...> wrote:
> <<My grand-daughter has learning disabilities (dyslexia) and public
schools
> were a nightmare,>>>>>
>
> I have first hand knowledge of this!!!!!! I think the single most
important
> thing is for your grandaughter to be aware that she has dyslexia,
and
> understand what it is, since it will be with her for life.

sharon childs

Even though I use the phrase "learning disability", I hate that phrase. It
seems to say "unable to learn". I don't feel children with dyslexia are
disabled from learning, I just feel they learn "differently" than the so
called "average". I want to be able to teach "differently"

Chaelene's father is 30 and also dyslexic. He can read but does not do it
for pleasure and only does it out of necessity. Once he learned to
understand it it was not so much of a problem for him either. Even though
he dropped out of school at 16, he later went back and got his ged then
finished a five year plumber apprenticeship. He now makes more money than
my children with college educations and nobody would ever know that school
had been a problem for him.

The thing that has improved Chaelene's reading the most was when my daughter
was here with a super ninetendo game. There was a game Chaelene loved to
play but you had to keep reading the instructions. I would help but she
kept wanting to play when others were too busy to help so she had to start
figuring the words for herself. I could not believe how rapidly her reading
began to improve. Just can't afford a super ninetendo though!! LOL

Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: <freeform@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] question on unschooling methods.


>
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:12:43 -0700 "Lyonness" <Lyonness@...>
> writes:
> > I have first hand knowledge of this!!!!!! I think the single most
> important
> > thing is for your grandaughter to be aware that she has dyslexia, and
> > understand what it is, since it will be with her for life.
>
> My brother was disgnosed with dyslexia when he was 7, and carried the
> label into his early twenties. Then he left the "system" and, without a
> few years, became a proficient writer and reader, even reading for fun. I
> think a lot of it was that he now needed those skills for real life, and
> then enabled him to get through some of the blocks he'd put up, and learn
> other ways. He says that he doesn't have a learning disability now, and I
> agree.
>
> I believe A. S. Neill said they'd never had a child who didn't become a
> proficient reader at Summerhill.
>
> > Writting you usually have to double check to make sure it is all
> correct, I
> > don't on email tho, so you'll see many of my errors. My spell checker
> isn't
> > working, and i'm usually in a hurry when doing email anyway.
>
> If a child is writing something formal then I agree, as long as the child
> wants your help. I think people often judge a writer based on grammar
> and spelling. Even if a person's ideas have merit, if his writing is full
> of errors they're often discounted. I sent an email today with an extra
> comma (I edited the sentence and didn't erase it) and it's been bothering
> me ever since I saw it come through.
>
> Dar, the slightly obsessive :-)
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

sharon childs

Thanks Pam, that is exactly what I am worried about. Reading is the key
that opens the door to other things. I had never thought of using the books
on tape but it is an excellent idea.

Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: <PSoroosh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] question on unschooling methods.


> I'd suggest that if reading is going to be so difficult as it seems with
> Chaelene (GREAT NAME, by the way), that you focus on making sure she knows
> how to learn in other ways. I'd subscribe to books on tape!!! That would
be
> the most important thing - because she can learn so much from listening -
you
> don't want her reading disability to get in the way of her learning stuff
> that she'd be interested in if she didn't have learning problems. If
reading
> will always be hard for her - then she needs to have adaptive skills -
> listening to books on tape is a significant one. And I'd find ways to make
> sure we had lots of time to go to museums where there are displays and
> interactive stuff. And I'd do hands-on science stuff and have lots of art
> supplies.
>
> -pamS
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

sharon childs

This letter is getting saved. Thanks for writing it.

Gee, Chaelene would probably be thrilled to just hang out with your dad.
She has horses too, it is her main love in life. She began riding in the
Jr. Rodeo here this year. Sometimes I wish there were a speaker out by the
stalls so I could hear what she says to them. LOL Especially if she is
upset with the family,,,she is out "chatting" with the horses.

BTW...I am an excellent reader now, but I also used to count the paragraphs
and spend the time practicing mine so I wouldn't make any mistakes. I
didn't learn anything but fear of humiliation. It was really a drag too
when the teacher would decide to change the order or something and I would
get a different paragraph!!

Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bonni Sollars" <BSOLLARS@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] question on unschooling methods.


> "Then other
> times I wonder why I am so concerned, not everybody in the world has to
> be a
> great reader."
> Sharon, that is absolutely the truth. My dad never learned to read more
> than a road sign, and even that he had to ask his "co-pilot" to make
> sure. Yet, he followed his passion for horses and became a very popular
> and successful rancher. He had an accountant when he was single, then a
> wife with money smarts, to pay his bills. My husband is not a very good
> reader or writer, although he can do both. He still gets confused by a
> lot of words. But he does well as a journeyman in the construction
> field, and as a coach. His brother is illiterate, probably from being
> beaten by his dad when he didn't do well in school. But my husband
> apprenticed him in the trade, and now he is completely self-sufficient
> and self employed and even has been foreman on a lot of jobs. The reason
> my husband apprenticed him was because he was homeless after getting out
> of jail. He was an alcoholic. Now he's been clean and sober for over
> six years. I've worked for a lot of doctors who were terrible at writing
> and spelling. There are organizations that specialize in helping people
> with dyslexia learn to read. I'm sure you could find one in your area.
> But I wouldn't do that for many years, since there is plenty of time for
> her to develop other interests right now. Some people outgrow dyslexia.
> Sometimes it is better to focus on strengths rather than on weaknesses.
> No need to waste time wearing her out on reading. I'm thinking of a
> workout. They say to work out the smaller, easier muscles first ,
> because the biggest muscles make you tired, so do them last. My husband
> and his siblings did not learn to read until late, and were always
> humiliated for being behind everyone else. What would have happened if
> they had been left on their own to learn? It couldn't have been any
> worse than it was with all the humiliation and stress of being forced to
> read in front of the class and coming home with bad grades. My husband
> learned to read when he was seventeen and wanted to read the Bible. My
> sister in law said that in junior high when they had to read in front of
> the class, she would count how many paragraphs before they would get to
> her turn to read out loud, and she would practice her paragraph over and
> over so she memorized it before her turn. She didn't learn anything, she
> just put all her focus on not being humiliated. Now, as an adult, she
> writes the most beautiful poetry and can read books without a glitch. My
> dad lied and had friends cheat for him so he graduated. Why not just let
> him stay out of school and play with horses, which he did anyway by
> skipping school. Everyone has weaknesses and strengths, and we should
> focus on strengths in others. School means nothing. Passion means
> everything. Grades mean nothing. Acceptance means everything. Okay I'm
> done.
> Bonni
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

sharon childs

>
> Whether he reads them or not, it will get him off your back about it.
It's
> the "You're not qualified to judge" move, which sometimes goes "I'd be
glad
> to discuss it after you finish reading these books."
>
> Sandra

Well, he is not into reading and that would go nowhere.

Unfortunately he is the parent and the one in authority. I am the
grandmother who lives in his home and cares for his children ( no mom). If
I tell him he is not qualified to judge he will simply tell me I am not in
the position of authority and he will take her and put her directly into
public school.

We do not have a "normal situation" here and all these things have to be
handled with great diplomacy and kid gloves.

I am in kind of a difficult situation. I can't rock the boat too hard or I
will rock mysef right out of it and where would that leave these two
children?

Sharon

sharon childs

Bridget that doesn't sound like a picky word thing, that does make very good
sense. I hate when people who are afflicted with leprosy are called
"lepers".

Sharon

----- Original Message -----
From: "rumpleteasermom" <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:13 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: question on unschooling methods.


> I think avery important thing too is to make sure she understands that
> she HAS dyslexia and *not* that she IS dyslexic. I know it sounds
> like a picky word thing but I think it is important to realize that a
> child has a problem not is a problem. Important for them to realize
> too.
>
> Bridget
>
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Lyonness" <Lyonness@k...> wrote:
> > <<My grand-daughter has learning disabilities (dyslexia) and public
> schools
> > were a nightmare,>>>>>
> >
> > I have first hand knowledge of this!!!!!! I think the single most
> important
> > thing is for your grandaughter to be aware that she has dyslexia,
> and
> > understand what it is, since it will be with her for life.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/14/02 12:00:37 PM, sugarcrafter@... writes:

<< Just can't afford a super ninetendo though!! LOL >>

Since it's two systems back, they're pretty cheap used! And the games can be
bought used, too.

My kids still use all four nintendo systems. It's like a museum. They
choose the games by the difficulty and interest factor, rather than the
graphics.

Sandra

Lyonness

How old is your brother now? it used to be they thought we just saw things
differently, now it is known that we think differently, and that isn't a bad
thing. I agree it isn't a learning disability, are just outside of the
norm. Their isn't anything wrong with it, but being aware that you are does
help. It helps you to know not to compare yourself to what the "norm" is,
how ever they got that anyway. While it is common knowledege that no 2
people are alike, we are insistant on everyone being the same.

<<<I think people often judge a writer based on grammar and spelling. >>>>>

They do, all the time! I've had people tell me that I'm down right stupid
because my grammar and spelling aren't good once they get to paper.

Bec,
Camano Island Homeschoolers,
Washington Unschoolers,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Washingtonunschoolers/


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[email protected]

<< BTW...I am an excellent reader now, but I also used to count the paragraphs
and spend the time practicing mine so I wouldn't make any mistakes. I
didn't learn anything but fear of humiliation. It was really a drag too
when the teacher would decide to change the order or something and I would
get a different paragraph!! >>

{{{Sharon}}}

That's sad. I would have traded you half of my reading.

I would read the whole article or chapter quickly and then be reading my own
book under the desk. If I were called upon, one of the kids near me would
casually put a finger on the right paragraph in her book, and I'd read my
paragraph.

I didn't know about kids counting passages. When I taught and we had
read-aloud opportunities like that (often screenplays in Scope magazine),
kids could read one or three paragraphs, as they wanted (more if they were
tiny), and then pass it on. Sometimes we passed it randomly around the room,
with them picking the next reader, and kids would indicate by waving or
looking expectant that they would like to read next. That way the kids who
didn't want to read didn't have to. I liked that better. And in reading
plays, those with the main parts (Juliet or Romeo, or whatever) would pass
off after ten minutes or so to someone who wanted to read but didn't have a
part. And the others could just follow along, or draw and listen, or read
their book under the desk!

Sandra, still finding things she did wrong as a teacher,
but sometimes remembering some things that weren't so wrong

Lyonness

<<<I'd subscribe to books on tape!!! That would be the most important
thing - because she can learn so much from listening >>>

First I think one has to figure out what kind of learner she is. It isn't
a reading disability, it doesn't only affect your reading and writting.
It's a whole different way of thinking and processing information. I hate
book on tape, my hubbys has them, I have to listen to the thing over and
over again to catch it all.

Bec,
Camano Island Homeschoolers,
Washington Unschoolers,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Washingtonunschoolers/


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

gruvystarchild

-
Hey Sharon,
I haven't read any other posts yet, so forgive me if someone already
mentioned this....
My ds just purchased a Nintendo 64 system from a local pawnshop. He
got two controllers, an adapter for our tv, two games, a memory card
and of course the system itself, all of it together was $50.00.
You can find used ones everywhere it seems. Try calling around to
some pawn shops, you might be able to afford one after all.
Ren

-- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@u...>
wrote:
> Even though I use the phrase "learning disability", I hate that
phrase. It
> seems to say "unable to learn". I don't feel children with
dyslexia are
> disabled from learning, I just feel they learn "differently" than
the so
> called "average". I want to be able to teach "differently"
>
> Chaelene's father is 30 and also dyslexic. He can read but does
not do it
> for pleasure and only does it out of necessity. Once he learned to
> understand it it was not so much of a problem for him either. Even
though
> he dropped out of school at 16, he later went back and got his ged
then
> finished a five year plumber apprenticeship. He now makes more
money than
> my children with college educations and nobody would ever know that
school
> had been a problem for him.
>
> The thing that has improved Chaelene's reading the most was when my
daughter
> was here with a super ninetendo game. There was a game Chaelene
loved to
> play but you had to keep reading the instructions. I would help
but she
> kept wanting to play when others were too busy to help so she had
to start
> figuring the words for herself. I could not believe how rapidly
her reading
> began to improve. Just can't afford a super ninetendo though!! LOL
>
> Sharon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <freeform@j...>
> To: <Unschooling-dotcom@y...>
> Cc: <Unschooling-dotcom@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 11:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] question on unschooling methods.
>
>
> >
> > On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:12:43 -0700 "Lyonness" <Lyonness@k...>
> > writes:
> > > I have first hand knowledge of this!!!!!! I think the single
most
> > important
> > > thing is for your grandaughter to be aware that she has
dyslexia, and
> > > understand what it is, since it will be with her for life.
> >
> > My brother was disgnosed with dyslexia when he was 7, and carried
the
> > label into his early twenties. Then he left the "system" and,
without a
> > few years, became a proficient writer and reader, even reading
for fun. I
> > think a lot of it was that he now needed those skills for real
life, and
> > then enabled him to get through some of the blocks he'd put up,
and learn
> > other ways. He says that he doesn't have a learning disability
now, and I
> > agree.
> >
> > I believe A. S. Neill said they'd never had a child who didn't
become a
> > proficient reader at Summerhill.
> >
> > > Writting you usually have to double check to make sure it is all
> > correct, I
> > > don't on email tho, so you'll see many of my errors. My spell
checker
> > isn't
> > > working, and i'm usually in a hurry when doing email anyway.
> >
> > If a child is writing something formal then I agree, as long as
the child
> > wants your help. I think people often judge a writer based on
grammar
> > and spelling. Even if a person's ideas have merit, if his writing
is full
> > of errors they're often discounted. I sent an email today with
an extra
> > comma (I edited the sentence and didn't erase it) and it's been
bothering
> > me ever since I saw it come through.
> >
> > Dar, the slightly obsessive :-)
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Unschooling-dotcom-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

sharon childs

The biggest problem wasn't actually the reading, it was being shy and being
afraid of being laughed at. Actually my grades were good but I was so
lacking in self esteem.

That was nearly a half a century ago though, LOL, I got over it. It is sad
for the kids today that still go through it though. Lack of self esteem I
believe is the very worst thing that can happen.

Sharon

> That's sad. I would have traded you half of my reading.
>
> I would read the whole article or chapter quickly and then be reading my
own
> book under the desk. If I were called upon, one of the kids near me would
> casually put a finger on the right paragraph in her book, and I'd read my
> paragraph.
>
> I didn't know about kids counting passages. When I taught and we had
> read-aloud opportunities like that (often screenplays in Scope magazine),
> kids could read one or three paragraphs, as they wanted (more if they were
> tiny), and then pass it on. Sometimes we passed it randomly around the
room,
> with them picking the next reader, and kids would indicate by waving or
> looking expectant that they would like to read next. That way the kids
who
> didn't want to read didn't have to. I liked that better. And in reading
> plays, those with the main parts (Juliet or Romeo, or whatever) would pass
> off after ten minutes or so to someone who wanted to read but didn't have
a
> part. And the others could just follow along, or draw and listen, or read
> their book under the desk!
>
> Sandra, still finding things she did wrong as a teacher,
> but sometimes remembering some things that weren't so wrong
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

sharon childs

Thank you for the wonderful idea. I never thought of calling a pawn shop
for anything,,,,keep watching the garage sale ads. If there is one thing we
have TONS of here in Nevada, it is pawn shops.

Sharon

----- Original Message -----
From: "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: question on unschooling methods.


> -
> Hey Sharon,
> I haven't read any other posts yet, so forgive me if someone already
> mentioned this....
> My ds just purchased a Nintendo 64 system from a local pawnshop. He
> got two controllers, an adapter for our tv, two games, a memory card
> and of course the system itself, all of it together was $50.00.
> You can find used ones everywhere it seems. Try calling around to
> some pawn shops, you might be able to afford one after all.
> Ren
>
> -- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@u...>
> wrote:
> > Even though I use the phrase "learning disability", I hate that
> phrase. It
> > seems to say "unable to learn". I don't feel children with
> dyslexia are
> > disabled from learning, I just feel they learn "differently" than
> the so
> > called "average". I want to be able to teach "differently"
> >
> > Chaelene's father is 30 and also dyslexic. He can read but does
> not do it
> > for pleasure and only does it out of necessity. Once he learned to
> > understand it it was not so much of a problem for him either. Even
> though
> > he dropped out of school at 16, he later went back and got his ged
> then
> > finished a five year plumber apprenticeship. He now makes more
> money than
> > my children with college educations and nobody would ever know that
> school
> > had been a problem for him.
> >
> > The thing that has improved Chaelene's reading the most was when my
> daughter
> > was here with a super ninetendo game. There was a game Chaelene
> loved to
> > play but you had to keep reading the instructions. I would help
> but she
> > kept wanting to play when others were too busy to help so she had
> to start
> > figuring the words for herself. I could not believe how rapidly
> her reading
> > began to improve. Just can't afford a super ninetendo though!! LOL
> >
> > Sharon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <freeform@j...>
> > To: <Unschooling-dotcom@y...>
> > Cc: <Unschooling-dotcom@y...>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 11:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] question on unschooling methods.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:12:43 -0700 "Lyonness" <Lyonness@k...>
> > > writes:
> > > > I have first hand knowledge of this!!!!!! I think the single
> most
> > > important
> > > > thing is for your grandaughter to be aware that she has
> dyslexia, and
> > > > understand what it is, since it will be with her for life.
> > >
> > > My brother was disgnosed with dyslexia when he was 7, and carried
> the
> > > label into his early twenties. Then he left the "system" and,
> without a
> > > few years, became a proficient writer and reader, even reading
> for fun. I
> > > think a lot of it was that he now needed those skills for real
> life, and
> > > then enabled him to get through some of the blocks he'd put up,
> and learn
> > > other ways. He says that he doesn't have a learning disability
> now, and I
> > > agree.
> > >
> > > I believe A. S. Neill said they'd never had a child who didn't
> become a
> > > proficient reader at Summerhill.
> > >
> > > > Writting you usually have to double check to make sure it is all
> > > correct, I
> > > > don't on email tho, so you'll see many of my errors. My spell
> checker
> > > isn't
> > > > working, and i'm usually in a hurry when doing email anyway.
> > >
> > > If a child is writing something formal then I agree, as long as
> the child
> > > wants your help. I think people often judge a writer based on
> grammar
> > > and spelling. Even if a person's ideas have merit, if his writing
> is full
> > > of errors they're often discounted. I sent an email today with
> an extra
> > > comma (I edited the sentence and didn't erase it) and it's been
> bothering
> > > me ever since I saw it come through.
> > >
> > > Dar, the slightly obsessive :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Unschooling-dotcom-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > > http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Tia Leschke

>Chaelene actually sees the letters moving and changing
>positions while she is looking at them. Some days she does pretty well and
>other days she will look at a two letter word like "no" and think it says
>"on". It gets worse with the bigger words. I hate to say it but sometimes
>it is hard to be patient and I feel like I am going to scream. Then other
>times I wonder why I am so concerned, not everybody in the world has to be a
>great reader.
It's good that you recognize that she might not ever be a great reader. It
isn't the most important thing in the world, though you want to do
everything you can to help them be as good at reading as they can be. You
might want to look into getting her tested for Irlen's Syndrome. Your
description of what happens with her sounds like it. Eye doctors and
special ed teachers never know anything about it, so even if she's been
through testing, it won't likely have been picked up. If they have it,
they get coloured plastic overlays in the colour that's right for them, and
it helps the letters stay still. The testing for that was about $100
Canadian, which would be about $75 US (I think) There's more testing that
can be done for coloured lenses (which are only rarely the same colour as
the overlays because of refraction.) My son has it, but not severe enough
that it was worth it to him to keep using the overlays. But I've heard of
other kids where it made all the difference. (I've heard of it helping
adults too. Might help your son.)
Try www.irlenclinic.com for info and a tester near you. There's also a
book by Helen Irlen. I forget the title, but I got it at our library.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Tia Leschke

>Thanks Pam, that is exactly what I am worried about. Reading is the key
>that opens the door to other things. I had never thought of using the books
>on tape but it is an excellent idea.

I spent hours reading to my non-reader. He didn't even like picking out
books, so I picked out stacks of books I thought he'd like at that
library. I'd read the blurb about each one, and then he'd pick. If I'd
read a chapter or two, and he didn't like it, we'd stop. That only
happened a couple of times over the years. I was able to introduce a lot
of "subjects" and ideas just by the fiction I chose. I certainly wouldn't
have insisted on choosing, but since he asked . . . <g>
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Bonni Sollars

Wow, Sharon, who would know my email reply to you could have touched on
things you could relate to so much? My dad had asthma, I get it too, and
so does my second son. My sister Jessica takes after my dad. From a
young age she was interested in the horses, and in pony club, a barrel
racing club. She went to thirteen years of school, and what did she do
but go to work at a dairy where she met the owner, now her husband.
They own a farm and have a baby. Before that, she raised goats and
calves and sold them and that supported my step-mom's farm after my dad
died. She still has horses. She actually got a scholarship for college,
but had no interest, since she just wanted to be a homemaker and take
care of animals. She has a real business sense with animals and knows
just how to fix 'em up when they're hurt or sick. For a while before she
got married she had a small business taking her petting zoo to kid's
parties and local community events. Now she takes care of her baby and
her ailing mother in law. I have never seen anyone who didn't complain
about their mother in law. She has such a good character. I really
admire her.
"The thing that has improved Chaelene's reading the most was when my
daughter
was here with a super ninetendo game."
That sounds just like an unschooler. Maybe you could ask your daughter
to give you that game after she is done with it. People are always
replacing things like that. Sometimes you can rent them from video game
places. They are also sold second hand for a significantly lower amount
than new ones.
Bonni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sharon childs

Thanks for the good ideas and for sharing about your family. I really
enjoyed reading it.

Your sister sounds like somebody who deserves to be admired. Chaelene would
love to know somebody like that and could probably learn anything that would
be within her interest realm. She wants to be a veterinarian!

Actually she sounds like somebody I could really learn from also.

Sharon
(experiencing 70 mph winds right now and not liking it. Hope my garden is
not history!!!)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bonni Sollars" <BSOLLARS@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] question on unschooling methods.


> Wow, Sharon, who would know my email reply to you could have touched on
> things you could relate to so much? My dad had asthma, I get it too, and
> so does my second son. My sister Jessica takes after my dad. From a
> young age she was interested in the horses, and in pony club, a barrel
> racing club. She went to thirteen years of school, and what did she do
> but go to work at a dairy where she met the owner, now her husband.
> They own a farm and have a baby. Before that, she raised goats and
> calves and sold them and that supported my step-mom's farm after my dad
> died. She still has horses. She actually got a scholarship for college,
> but had no interest, since she just wanted to be a homemaker and take
> care of animals. She has a real business sense with animals and knows
> just how to fix 'em up when they're hurt or sick. For a while before she
> got married she had a small business taking her petting zoo to kid's
> parties and local community events. Now she takes care of her baby and
> her ailing mother in law. I have never seen anyone who didn't complain
> about their mother in law. She has such a good character. I really
> admire her.
> "The thing that has improved Chaelene's reading the most was when my
> daughter
> was here with a super ninetendo game."
> That sounds just like an unschooler. Maybe you could ask your daughter
> to give you that game after she is done with it. People are always
> replacing things like that. Sometimes you can rent them from video game
> places. They are also sold second hand for a significantly lower amount
> than new ones.
> Bonni
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>