hitting
vivrh
After reading back my original posts I would have to agree that I have HIT my children. I dont think that it was a violent or abusive thing that I did but again hitting is hitting. It is a very infrequent thing to happen in our family but it is definitely hitting.
As much as I enjoy getting all of these emails I must go. I am signing off for the night. Have a wonderful evening all! See you tomorrow!
God bless
Vivian
Mom to three Happy little Monkeys
Austin 10/31/93 Sarah 8/28/95 Emmalee 8/15/00
And loving wife to Randy
**If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-Anatole France***
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As much as I enjoy getting all of these emails I must go. I am signing off for the night. Have a wonderful evening all! See you tomorrow!
God bless
Vivian
Mom to three Happy little Monkeys
Austin 10/31/93 Sarah 8/28/95 Emmalee 8/15/00
And loving wife to Randy
**If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-Anatole France***
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/02 7:30:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Hitting: First, remind them when they first get up that there is no
hitting allowed, because it's not nice to hurt people. Then throughout the
day, like every hour or two, wander through or look up and ask, are you both
remembering to be nice and not hit? This gives lots of reminders, with the
focus being on acting nice to others. We have a reward system set up. I give
my boys a foam heart cutout whenever they go an hour or two without the
undesirable behavior, and they have a list of things they can choose from to
trade their hearts in to do. >>
This sounds like an awful lot of work for the Mom, and not enough self
control from the children.
Parental involvement from moment to moment is necessary with children that
are having a problem with this, but that doesn't mean constant monitoring of
behavior. They'll never learn the control from within from the above
mentioned methods.
And I do not like rewarding kids with stars, hearts or other false methods of
control.
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
I really, really like Sandra's suggestions on this.
I have really worked with my two middle children on how to handle things with
words.
When one of them starts a fight, I step in and start dialoguing with them
about how they could say it different to avoid future hurts.
It is slow going, but I just heard Trevor yell "Sierra come pick up your crap
of my floor" in a not very nice voice. She said "you are trying to start a
fight" and he answered "please come pick up the stuff you left in here". Wow!
They are listening to each other's signals. They are being analytical (even
at five) and while I don't believe we'll never have another fight, I do see
skills blossoming without flase rewards or constant monitoring.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< Hitting: First, remind them when they first get up that there is no
hitting allowed, because it's not nice to hurt people. Then throughout the
day, like every hour or two, wander through or look up and ask, are you both
remembering to be nice and not hit? This gives lots of reminders, with the
focus being on acting nice to others. We have a reward system set up. I give
my boys a foam heart cutout whenever they go an hour or two without the
undesirable behavior, and they have a list of things they can choose from to
trade their hearts in to do. >>
This sounds like an awful lot of work for the Mom, and not enough self
control from the children.
Parental involvement from moment to moment is necessary with children that
are having a problem with this, but that doesn't mean constant monitoring of
behavior. They'll never learn the control from within from the above
mentioned methods.
And I do not like rewarding kids with stars, hearts or other false methods of
control.
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
I really, really like Sandra's suggestions on this.
I have really worked with my two middle children on how to handle things with
words.
When one of them starts a fight, I step in and start dialoguing with them
about how they could say it different to avoid future hurts.
It is slow going, but I just heard Trevor yell "Sierra come pick up your crap
of my floor" in a not very nice voice. She said "you are trying to start a
fight" and he answered "please come pick up the stuff you left in here". Wow!
They are listening to each other's signals. They are being analytical (even
at five) and while I don't believe we'll never have another fight, I do see
skills blossoming without flase rewards or constant monitoring.
Ren
[email protected]
<< First, remind them when they first get up that there is no
hitting allowed, because it's not nice to hurt people. >>
If when I woke up my husband said "Now today is not going to be like
yesterday," it would NOT put the morning in a good light!
Let yesterday be yesterday and let today be new!
Saw it yesterday, so it's fresh in my mind:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/HEM154.98/154.98_clmn_unschl.html
Unschooling
Morning
At your house it will be morning again within 24 hours, but it could be
morning in your heart any second.
Somewhere in the world it is morning every moment. Somewhere, light is
dawning. Some people, and I'm one of them, believe that any portal to the
universe leads to the whole universe, and if that's true we should be able to
get to everything in the whole wide world (and beyond) without much effort
from something as small as, say, the definition of a word. How about
"morning" and its particulars, daybreak, dawn and sunrise?
Every day the sun comes up (unless you're in the Arctic or Antarctic, in
which cases your sun-mileage may vary). Every day is a new opportunity.
People say that all the time: "It's the dawning of a new day." If you just
let those thoughts and truths go by, you're missing something important that
happens 365 days a year (sometimes with a bonus round). Don't miss important
things like opportunities for renewal and change. At your house it will be
morning again within 24 hours, but it could be morning in your heart any
second.
"The morning of the world," someone might say, meaning just as the world was
new and bright. From this we and our children can talk about and learn about
poetry and figurative speech. "The morning of his life..." when likening a
lifetime to a day, with its own first light, eventual afternoon, and
twilight. These are common references. "In Queen Victoria's day..."
At our wedding my friends and relatives all sang "Morning Has Broken," and
it was the morning of our lives together. Later that day we had three
children. Well, later meaning over the next six and a half years. Sometimes
time passes slowly, and sometimes it speeds by, and there is a lesson in
focus, and in flow, and in biochemistry.
Some people collect bugs, or rocks, or videotapes. It's cheaper and easier
to collect words. If you have a name which is a noun, like "Lynn" or "Holly"
or "Gill" you've probably developed an ear for hearing it and an eye for
seeing it in various contexts and have probably looked it up in dictionaries
and name books to see how old it is. This can be done with morning and joy
and tree and wind. I should have put quotation marks on those, "morning" and
"joy" and so forth, to show that I mean the word morning, not the
thing-in-the-sky morning. Now we're talking about punctuation, the
mechanics of writing, and the branch of philosophy called ontology, about
what "being" is-is the word "morning" part of morning itself? Is morning
inside my head? Where does a "real" morning end and just talking and thinking
about morning start? Can you pretend morning?
You can spend $20 on a Mensa-approved plastic puzzle, or a book of mind-
bending questions, or you can just look out the window, name things, and
think. You can play with a dictionary, ask each other odd questions, and look
up the answers. It's the thinking that counts, the idea-getting, the
biochemical ping when the light of a new concept dawns in your mind.
When people begin homeschooling, that's a big bright morning, but you can
have as many mornings as you need. If you want to change the way you're being
or thinking, just do it. Don't wait for another year, another month, another
day. Good morning!
© 1998 Sandra Dodd
hitting allowed, because it's not nice to hurt people. >>
If when I woke up my husband said "Now today is not going to be like
yesterday," it would NOT put the morning in a good light!
Let yesterday be yesterday and let today be new!
Saw it yesterday, so it's fresh in my mind:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/HEM154.98/154.98_clmn_unschl.html
Unschooling
Morning
At your house it will be morning again within 24 hours, but it could be
morning in your heart any second.
Somewhere in the world it is morning every moment. Somewhere, light is
dawning. Some people, and I'm one of them, believe that any portal to the
universe leads to the whole universe, and if that's true we should be able to
get to everything in the whole wide world (and beyond) without much effort
from something as small as, say, the definition of a word. How about
"morning" and its particulars, daybreak, dawn and sunrise?
Every day the sun comes up (unless you're in the Arctic or Antarctic, in
which cases your sun-mileage may vary). Every day is a new opportunity.
People say that all the time: "It's the dawning of a new day." If you just
let those thoughts and truths go by, you're missing something important that
happens 365 days a year (sometimes with a bonus round). Don't miss important
things like opportunities for renewal and change. At your house it will be
morning again within 24 hours, but it could be morning in your heart any
second.
"The morning of the world," someone might say, meaning just as the world was
new and bright. From this we and our children can talk about and learn about
poetry and figurative speech. "The morning of his life..." when likening a
lifetime to a day, with its own first light, eventual afternoon, and
twilight. These are common references. "In Queen Victoria's day..."
At our wedding my friends and relatives all sang "Morning Has Broken," and
it was the morning of our lives together. Later that day we had three
children. Well, later meaning over the next six and a half years. Sometimes
time passes slowly, and sometimes it speeds by, and there is a lesson in
focus, and in flow, and in biochemistry.
Some people collect bugs, or rocks, or videotapes. It's cheaper and easier
to collect words. If you have a name which is a noun, like "Lynn" or "Holly"
or "Gill" you've probably developed an ear for hearing it and an eye for
seeing it in various contexts and have probably looked it up in dictionaries
and name books to see how old it is. This can be done with morning and joy
and tree and wind. I should have put quotation marks on those, "morning" and
"joy" and so forth, to show that I mean the word morning, not the
thing-in-the-sky morning. Now we're talking about punctuation, the
mechanics of writing, and the branch of philosophy called ontology, about
what "being" is-is the word "morning" part of morning itself? Is morning
inside my head? Where does a "real" morning end and just talking and thinking
about morning start? Can you pretend morning?
You can spend $20 on a Mensa-approved plastic puzzle, or a book of mind-
bending questions, or you can just look out the window, name things, and
think. You can play with a dictionary, ask each other odd questions, and look
up the answers. It's the thinking that counts, the idea-getting, the
biochemical ping when the light of a new concept dawns in your mind.
When people begin homeschooling, that's a big bright morning, but you can
have as many mornings as you need. If you want to change the way you're being
or thinking, just do it. Don't wait for another year, another month, another
day. Good morning!
© 1998 Sandra Dodd
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/02 8:37:29 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< They are being analytical (even
at five) and while I don't believe we'll never have another fight, I do see
skills blossoming without flase rewards or constant monitoring.
Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is often way more
important than "what" to do.
Sandra
<< They are being analytical (even
at five) and while I don't believe we'll never have another fight, I do see
skills blossoming without flase rewards or constant monitoring.
>>I agree.
Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is often way more
important than "what" to do.
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
I'm just wondering if anyone else wonders this?
How is giving the hearts any different from paying a child to do something? Sandra, I'm not trying to be a bitch or anything but I was reading the unschooling boards and read about the boy who wouldn't shower. You suggested to pay him a dollar. I don't understand the difference between the two?
Maybe its situational or different circumstances? I don't know. I'm probably missing something, but can you expound on that? I'm guessing the Kohn book might explain this?
I really am trying to understand this new way of thinking about things.
Thanks, Kelli
starsuncloud@... wrote:In a message dated 10/1/02 7:30:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Hitting: First, remind them when they first get up that there is no
hitting allowed, because it's not nice to hurt people. Then throughout the
day, like every hour or two, wander through or look up and ask, are you both
remembering to be nice and not hit? This gives lots of reminders, with the
focus being on acting nice to others. We have a reward system set up. I give
my boys a foam heart cutout whenever they go an hour or two without the
undesirable behavior, and they have a list of things they can choose from to
trade their hearts in to do. >>
This sounds like an awful lot of work for the Mom, and not enough self
control from the children.
Parental involvement from moment to moment is necessary with children that
are having a problem with this, but that doesn't mean constant monitoring of
behavior. They'll never learn the control from within from the above
mentioned methods.
And I do not like rewarding kids with stars, hearts or other false methods of
control.
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
I really, really like Sandra's suggestions on this.
I have really worked with my two middle children on how to handle things with
words.
When one of them starts a fight, I step in and start dialoguing with them
about how they could say it different to avoid future hurts.
It is slow going, but I just heard Trevor yell "Sierra come pick up your crap
of my floor" in a not very nice voice. She said "you are trying to start a
fight" and he answered "please come pick up the stuff you left in here". Wow!
They are listening to each other's signals. They are being analytical (even
at five) and while I don't believe we'll never have another fight, I do see
skills blossoming without flase rewards or constant monitoring.
Ren
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How is giving the hearts any different from paying a child to do something? Sandra, I'm not trying to be a bitch or anything but I was reading the unschooling boards and read about the boy who wouldn't shower. You suggested to pay him a dollar. I don't understand the difference between the two?
Maybe its situational or different circumstances? I don't know. I'm probably missing something, but can you expound on that? I'm guessing the Kohn book might explain this?
I really am trying to understand this new way of thinking about things.
Thanks, Kelli
starsuncloud@... wrote:In a message dated 10/1/02 7:30:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Hitting: First, remind them when they first get up that there is no
hitting allowed, because it's not nice to hurt people. Then throughout the
day, like every hour or two, wander through or look up and ask, are you both
remembering to be nice and not hit? This gives lots of reminders, with the
focus being on acting nice to others. We have a reward system set up. I give
my boys a foam heart cutout whenever they go an hour or two without the
undesirable behavior, and they have a list of things they can choose from to
trade their hearts in to do. >>
This sounds like an awful lot of work for the Mom, and not enough self
control from the children.
Parental involvement from moment to moment is necessary with children that
are having a problem with this, but that doesn't mean constant monitoring of
behavior. They'll never learn the control from within from the above
mentioned methods.
And I do not like rewarding kids with stars, hearts or other false methods of
control.
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
I really, really like Sandra's suggestions on this.
I have really worked with my two middle children on how to handle things with
words.
When one of them starts a fight, I step in and start dialoguing with them
about how they could say it different to avoid future hurts.
It is slow going, but I just heard Trevor yell "Sierra come pick up your crap
of my floor" in a not very nice voice. She said "you are trying to start a
fight" and he answered "please come pick up the stuff you left in here". Wow!
They are listening to each other's signals. They are being analytical (even
at five) and while I don't believe we'll never have another fight, I do see
skills blossoming without flase rewards or constant monitoring.
Ren
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/02 9:37:48 AM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I'm just wondering if anyone else wonders this?
How is giving the hearts any different from paying a child to do something?
Kohn, although there his book sits in my den right now. <G>
Why give hearts for privileges, though? Why not just thank the kids for
being sweet?
My main recommendation about money has been when a parent is tempted to
hire a tutor (for what amount? Often big bucks), that they just split the
difference with the kid, and ask him to learn the stuff on his own for money
instead of paying a teacher by the hour to try again to get him to understand
something.
<<I was reading the unschooling boards and read about the boy who wouldn't
shower. You suggested to pay him a dollar. >>
I was brainstorming about what might help. If he would take a shower for
money, then he would take a shower. If the shower wasn't worth a dollar to
the mom, then she should just quit complaining about the smell.
People will spend $80 an hour on marriage counselling who won't just go out
to dinner and a movie. It's dumb sometimes, how people are about money.
Money is as real as food or a clean towel or a place to sit. Do we deprive
our kids of clean clothes? Clean bedding? That costs money to buy and to
wash.
Some people treat money like a separate and magical substance. I don't.
Of course people should WANT to take a shower, or just take one on the
slightest suggestion of being due one. But if a kid is depressed or
resistent and needs impetus, and he's fourteen years old, use cash! Once he
gets used to the comfort he won't say "Where's my dollar? I'm 19 and I took
a shower." He won't ask his future wife to pay him to shower, I'm sure.
Sandra
<< I'm just wondering if anyone else wonders this?
How is giving the hearts any different from paying a child to do something?
>>I'm not the one who said I wouldn't give hearts or who recommended Alfie
Kohn, although there his book sits in my den right now. <G>
Why give hearts for privileges, though? Why not just thank the kids for
being sweet?
My main recommendation about money has been when a parent is tempted to
hire a tutor (for what amount? Often big bucks), that they just split the
difference with the kid, and ask him to learn the stuff on his own for money
instead of paying a teacher by the hour to try again to get him to understand
something.
<<I was reading the unschooling boards and read about the boy who wouldn't
shower. You suggested to pay him a dollar. >>
I was brainstorming about what might help. If he would take a shower for
money, then he would take a shower. If the shower wasn't worth a dollar to
the mom, then she should just quit complaining about the smell.
People will spend $80 an hour on marriage counselling who won't just go out
to dinner and a movie. It's dumb sometimes, how people are about money.
Money is as real as food or a clean towel or a place to sit. Do we deprive
our kids of clean clothes? Clean bedding? That costs money to buy and to
wash.
Some people treat money like a separate and magical substance. I don't.
Of course people should WANT to take a shower, or just take one on the
slightest suggestion of being due one. But if a kid is depressed or
resistent and needs impetus, and he's fourteen years old, use cash! Once he
gets used to the comfort he won't say "Where's my dollar? I'm 19 and I took
a shower." He won't ask his future wife to pay him to shower, I'm sure.
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
Thanks Sandra, Sorry, I ran some different ideas from different people together and then it got all confusing in writing. (See I did it again, too many words!)
Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 10/1/02 9:37:48 AM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I'm just wondering if anyone else wonders this?
How is giving the hearts any different from paying a child to do something?
Kohn, although there his book sits in my den right now. <G>
Why give hearts for privileges, though? Why not just thank the kids for
being sweet?
My main recommendation about money has been when a parent is tempted to
hire a tutor (for what amount? Often big bucks), that they just split the
difference with the kid, and ask him to learn the stuff on his own for money
instead of paying a teacher by the hour to try again to get him to understand
something.
<<I was reading the unschooling boards and read about the boy who wouldn't
shower. You suggested to pay him a dollar. >>
I was brainstorming about what might help. If he would take a shower for
money, then he would take a shower. If the shower wasn't worth a dollar to
the mom, then she should just quit complaining about the smell.
People will spend $80 an hour on marriage counselling who won't just go out
to dinner and a movie. It's dumb sometimes, how people are about money.
Money is as real as food or a clean towel or a place to sit. Do we deprive
our kids of clean clothes? Clean bedding? That costs money to buy and to
wash.
Some people treat money like a separate and magical substance. I don't.
Of course people should WANT to take a shower, or just take one on the
slightest suggestion of being due one. But if a kid is depressed or
resistent and needs impetus, and he's fourteen years old, use cash! Once he
gets used to the comfort he won't say "Where's my dollar? I'm 19 and I took
a shower." He won't ask his future wife to pay him to shower, I'm sure.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 10/1/02 9:37:48 AM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I'm just wondering if anyone else wonders this?
How is giving the hearts any different from paying a child to do something?
>>I'm not the one who said I wouldn't give hearts or who recommended Alfie
Kohn, although there his book sits in my den right now. <G>
Why give hearts for privileges, though? Why not just thank the kids for
being sweet?
My main recommendation about money has been when a parent is tempted to
hire a tutor (for what amount? Often big bucks), that they just split the
difference with the kid, and ask him to learn the stuff on his own for money
instead of paying a teacher by the hour to try again to get him to understand
something.
<<I was reading the unschooling boards and read about the boy who wouldn't
shower. You suggested to pay him a dollar. >>
I was brainstorming about what might help. If he would take a shower for
money, then he would take a shower. If the shower wasn't worth a dollar to
the mom, then she should just quit complaining about the smell.
People will spend $80 an hour on marriage counselling who won't just go out
to dinner and a movie. It's dumb sometimes, how people are about money.
Money is as real as food or a clean towel or a place to sit. Do we deprive
our kids of clean clothes? Clean bedding? That costs money to buy and to
wash.
Some people treat money like a separate and magical substance. I don't.
Of course people should WANT to take a shower, or just take one on the
slightest suggestion of being due one. But if a kid is depressed or
resistent and needs impetus, and he's fourteen years old, use cash! Once he
gets used to the comfort he won't say "Where's my dollar? I'm 19 and I took
a shower." He won't ask his future wife to pay him to shower, I'm sure.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Very true! But a husband (hopefully) has a longer-term and less selective memory than a 7yr old. My boys told me their biggest problem was that they forgot they weren't supposed to hit. A nice cheerful reminder of what is expected worked wonders and kept everyone happy. They thanked me many times for reminding them, so that they did not forget and end up in trouble or hurt.
Myranda
If when I woke up my husband said "Now today is not going to be like
yesterday," it would NOT put the morning in a good light!
^From Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
If when I woke up my husband said "Now today is not going to be like
yesterday," it would NOT put the morning in a good light!
^From Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Most kids want to do good, but not all. My 7 yr old has undiagnosed ODD - he wants and thrives on creating conflict and hurting others. He has to be given constant reasons to not do so.
Myranda
I agree.
Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is often way more
important than "what" to do.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
I agree.
Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is often way more
important than "what" to do.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
I chose foam hearts because a heart stands for love, they can actually be held and kept as a reminder (vs. using sticker charts, etc) and because a thank you is not enough for my son to be willing to do something. For my son to be willing to do something that goes against what he wants to do, he has to have something that makes it worth his while. Not hitting because it hurts the other person doesn't work, because hurting someone else IS his goal. He knows he's being mean, he knows that person won't want to play with him anymore, but he does not care - he wants what he wants, no matter what. I realize that most kids are not like this, just thought our method might work for others.
Myranda
Why give hearts for privileges, though? Why not just thank the kids for
being sweet?
^From Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Why give hearts for privileges, though? Why not just thank the kids for
being sweet?
^From Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: starsuncloud@...<<This sounds like an awful lot of work for the Mom, and not enough self
control from the children.
Parental involvement from moment to moment is necessary with children that
are having a problem with this, but that doesn't mean constant monitoring of
behavior. They'll never learn the control from within from the above
mentioned methods.
And I do not like rewarding kids with stars, hearts or other false methods
of
control.
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
I really, really like Sandra's suggestions on this.>>
Oh my God I'm am totally agreeing with Ren! <BG> I too had a problem with my
Joseph and Sierra fighting. They are 13 months apart and sometimes went at
it like pro's. I did what Sandra suggested and it's been maybe 2 weeks?? but
there is a definite difference in our house between the two of them. Some of
it does come from age too as I see Sierra doing things that Joseph did a
while ago and doesn't do anymore. Just being more considerate from I guess a
kind of maturity, for lack of a better word. I'm sure it all goes around
with what we've been doing and how they've been addressed.
And I have never been one to like the whole reward thing and Alfie just
reinforced what I had always thought anyway. Good book even if you believe
it already. Kind of gave me the whys instead of the just I don'ts.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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In a message dated 10/1/02 1:23:21 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< I see Sierra doing things that Joseph did a
while ago and doesn't do anymore. Just being more considerate from I guess a
kind of maturity, for lack of a better word. >>
Hey, that IS the word!! <bwg>
I know those of you with toddlers are hoping for them to GET BIG, but I have
big kids, and I would love to have one of them be three for a day or two, or
an hour, or a minute.
And now I cried. They're all not even in the house right now. Kirby's at
work, Marty's helping an adult friend of mine unload a truck (for money and
lunch!) and Holly's off riding bikes with another homeschooler.
I'm going to go read a magazine and feel sorry for myself and wish I had some
little kids to come wake me up from a nap.
Sandra
<< I see Sierra doing things that Joseph did a
while ago and doesn't do anymore. Just being more considerate from I guess a
kind of maturity, for lack of a better word. >>
Hey, that IS the word!! <bwg>
I know those of you with toddlers are hoping for them to GET BIG, but I have
big kids, and I would love to have one of them be three for a day or two, or
an hour, or a minute.
And now I cried. They're all not even in the house right now. Kirby's at
work, Marty's helping an adult friend of mine unload a truck (for money and
lunch!) and Holly's off riding bikes with another homeschooler.
I'm going to go read a magazine and feel sorry for myself and wish I had some
little kids to come wake me up from a nap.
Sandra
Myranda
I must be missing some e-mails, I never got the originals for a lot of these. I have read this book, it sounds like wonderful ideas, but none of them worked for my 7yo.
These kinds of things are based on the assumption that children basically WANT to do what is right and WANT to make parents, siblings, and others happy. My son does not. He WANTS to cause turmoil, problems, and WANTS to hurt others. He gets worse as he gets older with this, not better. That is what ODD does. Not fun to live with.
Myranda
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
Oh my God I'm am totally agreeing with Ren! <BG> I too had a problem with my
Joseph and Sierra fighting. They are 13 months apart and sometimes went at
it like pro's. I did what Sandra suggested and it's been maybe 2 weeks?? but
there is a definite difference in our house between the two of them. Some of
it does come from age too as I see Sierra doing things that Joseph did a
while ago and doesn't do anymore. Just being more considerate from I guess a
kind of maturity, for lack of a better word. I'm sure it all goes around
with what we've been doing and how they've been addressed.
And I have never been one to like the whole reward thing and Alfie just
reinforced what I had always thought anyway. Good book even if you believe
it already. Kind of gave me the whys instead of the just I don'ts.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
These kinds of things are based on the assumption that children basically WANT to do what is right and WANT to make parents, siblings, and others happy. My son does not. He WANTS to cause turmoil, problems, and WANTS to hurt others. He gets worse as he gets older with this, not better. That is what ODD does. Not fun to live with.
Myranda
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
Oh my God I'm am totally agreeing with Ren! <BG> I too had a problem with my
Joseph and Sierra fighting. They are 13 months apart and sometimes went at
it like pro's. I did what Sandra suggested and it's been maybe 2 weeks?? but
there is a definite difference in our house between the two of them. Some of
it does come from age too as I see Sierra doing things that Joseph did a
while ago and doesn't do anymore. Just being more considerate from I guess a
kind of maturity, for lack of a better word. I'm sure it all goes around
with what we've been doing and how they've been addressed.
And I have never been one to like the whole reward thing and Alfie just
reinforced what I had always thought anyway. Good book even if you believe
it already. Kind of gave me the whys instead of the just I don'ts.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:52:23 -0400 "Myranda" <myrandab@...>
writes:
disabilities), more than half of my kids were diagnosed ODD. The first
few weeks were hell, because they were all working to create turmoil and
mayhem. Slowly, though, we all got to know each other. We formed
relationships. When they kicked me or spit at me, I held them so they
couldn't attack any more. When they helped me out I was honestly
grateful. They learned to be competent, and feel competent. I worked to
create an environment where they felt safe and good about themselves, and
they responded by trusting me. It was really cool..
Of course, it was a school, so the principal kept coming and trying to
get me to do other stuff, so we did "points" but that wasn't what
mattered. She also pushed me to get them all "mainstreaming", which they
weren't ready for. And I have a pretty high tolerance for being sworn at,
but it all did pass...
Dar
writes:
> These kinds of things are based on the assumption that childrenWhen I was a teacher (special day class for kids with emotional
> basically WANT to do what is right and WANT to make parents,
> siblings, and others happy. My son does not. He WANTS to cause
> turmoil, problems, and WANTS to hurt others. He gets worse as he
> gets older with this, not better. That is what ODD does. Not fun to
> live with.
disabilities), more than half of my kids were diagnosed ODD. The first
few weeks were hell, because they were all working to create turmoil and
mayhem. Slowly, though, we all got to know each other. We formed
relationships. When they kicked me or spit at me, I held them so they
couldn't attack any more. When they helped me out I was honestly
grateful. They learned to be competent, and feel competent. I worked to
create an environment where they felt safe and good about themselves, and
they responded by trusting me. It was really cool..
Of course, it was a school, so the principal kept coming and trying to
get me to do other stuff, so we did "points" but that wasn't what
mattered. She also pushed me to get them all "mainstreaming", which they
weren't ready for. And I have a pretty high tolerance for being sworn at,
but it all did pass...
Dar
April
Sandra,
I was just thinking these kinds of thoughts! It doesn't seem like it's been that long when I was the mom of young kids looking up to families that had teens and thinking 'wow, they're so together and have such great kids', sheesh, I blink a couple of times and now families with young kids are looking at me that way!!! I can have a complete conversation with dh, I can read chapters at a time in a book without being interrupted, nobody needs help getting dressed or making lunch, I hardly ever get woken at night (though the girls had a friend stay over last night I had woke up to giggles a few times). They really don't stay little long do they?! But what fun they are as big kids!!
~April
Homeschooling Mom to: Kate-16, Lisa-13, Karl-11, and Ben-7
Facilitator to REACH-Auburn Hills, an inclusive Homeschool Group in Auburn Hills, MI
I was just thinking these kinds of thoughts! It doesn't seem like it's been that long when I was the mom of young kids looking up to families that had teens and thinking 'wow, they're so together and have such great kids', sheesh, I blink a couple of times and now families with young kids are looking at me that way!!! I can have a complete conversation with dh, I can read chapters at a time in a book without being interrupted, nobody needs help getting dressed or making lunch, I hardly ever get woken at night (though the girls had a friend stay over last night I had woke up to giggles a few times). They really don't stay little long do they?! But what fun they are as big kids!!
~April
Homeschooling Mom to: Kate-16, Lisa-13, Karl-11, and Ben-7
Facilitator to REACH-Auburn Hills, an inclusive Homeschool Group in Auburn Hills, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] hitting
In a message dated 10/1/02 1:23:21 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< I see Sierra doing things that Joseph did a
while ago and doesn't do anymore. Just being more considerate from I guess a
kind of maturity, for lack of a better word. >>
Hey, that IS the word!! <bwg>
I know those of you with toddlers are hoping for them to GET BIG, but I have
big kids, and I would love to have one of them be three for a day or two, or
an hour, or a minute.
And now I cried. They're all not even in the house right now. Kirby's at
work, Marty's helping an adult friend of mine unload a truck (for money and
lunch!) and Holly's off riding bikes with another homeschooler.
I'm going to go read a magazine and feel sorry for myself and wish I had some
little kids to come wake me up from a nap.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Ah, I finally got this post! These things are coming in weird order. You're right, for most kids, I suppose. As I said in previous posts, though, my son has to have this. Before we started this, I had to literally watch him every second he was in the room with his brother, or little brother was always getting bumps, bruises, cuts, and worse. Much less work this way, and his self-control has improved in other areas since we started this.
Myranda
From: Kelli Traaseth
This sounds like an awful lot of work for the Mom, and not enough self
control from the children.
Parental involvement from moment to moment is necessary with children that
are having a problem with this, but that doesn't mean constant monitoring of
behavior. They'll never learn the control from within from the above
mentioned methods.
And I do not like rewarding kids with stars, hearts or other false methods of
control.
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
I really, really like Sandra's suggestions on this.
I have really worked with my two middle children on how to handle things with
words.
When one of them starts a fight, I step in and start dialoguing with them
about how they could say it different to avoid future hurts.
It is slow going, but I just heard Trevor yell "Sierra come pick up your crap
of my floor" in a not very nice voice. She said "you are trying to start a
fight" and he answered "please come pick up the stuff you left in here". Wow!
They are listening to each other's signals. They are being analytical (even
at five) and while I don't believe we'll never have another fight, I do see
skills blossoming without flase rewards or constant monitoring.
Ren
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---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
From: Kelli Traaseth
This sounds like an awful lot of work for the Mom, and not enough self
control from the children.
Parental involvement from moment to moment is necessary with children that
are having a problem with this, but that doesn't mean constant monitoring of
behavior. They'll never learn the control from within from the above
mentioned methods.
And I do not like rewarding kids with stars, hearts or other false methods of
control.
Read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.
I really, really like Sandra's suggestions on this.
I have really worked with my two middle children on how to handle things with
words.
When one of them starts a fight, I step in and start dialoguing with them
about how they could say it different to avoid future hurts.
It is slow going, but I just heard Trevor yell "Sierra come pick up your crap
of my floor" in a not very nice voice. She said "you are trying to start a
fight" and he answered "please come pick up the stuff you left in here". Wow!
They are listening to each other's signals. They are being analytical (even
at five) and while I don't believe we'll never have another fight, I do see
skills blossoming without flase rewards or constant monitoring.
Ren
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---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
That's great! I can't leave Brett with teachers - they kick him out and call me to come get him. He's never been in school, but I've signed him up for classes like art, music, swimming lessons, etc. No one was willing to work with him. I "personally" get very little problems from him now, but he is very agressive towards his younger brother and my husband.
Myranda
When I was a teacher (special day class for kids with emotional
disabilities), more than half of my kids were diagnosed ODD. The first
few weeks were hell, because they were all working to create turmoil and
mayhem. Slowly, though, we all got to know each other. We formed
relationships. When they kicked me or spit at me, I held them so they
couldn't attack any more. When they helped me out I was honestly
grateful. They learned to be competent, and feel competent. I worked to
create an environment where they felt safe and good about themselves, and
they responded by trusting me. It was really cool..
Of course, it was a school, so the principal kept coming and trying to
get me to do other stuff, so we did "points" but that wasn't what
mattered. She also pushed me to get them all "mainstreaming", which they
weren't ready for. And I have a pretty high tolerance for being sworn at,
but it all did pass...
Dar
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
When I was a teacher (special day class for kids with emotional
disabilities), more than half of my kids were diagnosed ODD. The first
few weeks were hell, because they were all working to create turmoil and
mayhem. Slowly, though, we all got to know each other. We formed
relationships. When they kicked me or spit at me, I held them so they
couldn't attack any more. When they helped me out I was honestly
grateful. They learned to be competent, and feel competent. I worked to
create an environment where they felt safe and good about themselves, and
they responded by trusting me. It was really cool..
Of course, it was a school, so the principal kept coming and trying to
get me to do other stuff, so we did "points" but that wasn't what
mattered. She also pushed me to get them all "mainstreaming", which they
weren't ready for. And I have a pretty high tolerance for being sworn at,
but it all did pass...
Dar
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
That's great! I can't leave Brett with teachers - they kick him out and call me to come get him. He's never been in school, but I've signed him up for classes like art, music, swimming lessons, etc. No one was willing to work with him. I "personally" get very little problems from him now, but he is very agressive towards his younger brother and my husband.
Myranda
When I was a teacher (special day class for kids with emotional
disabilities), more than half of my kids were diagnosed ODD. The first
few weeks were hell, because they were all working to create turmoil and
mayhem. Slowly, though, we all got to know each other. We formed
relationships. When they kicked me or spit at me, I held them so they
couldn't attack any more. When they helped me out I was honestly
grateful. They learned to be competent, and feel competent. I worked to
create an environment where they felt safe and good about themselves, and
they responded by trusting me. It was really cool..
Of course, it was a school, so the principal kept coming and trying to
get me to do other stuff, so we did "points" but that wasn't what
mattered. She also pushed me to get them all "mainstreaming", which they
weren't ready for. And I have a pretty high tolerance for being sworn at,
but it all did pass...
Dar
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
When I was a teacher (special day class for kids with emotional
disabilities), more than half of my kids were diagnosed ODD. The first
few weeks were hell, because they were all working to create turmoil and
mayhem. Slowly, though, we all got to know each other. We formed
relationships. When they kicked me or spit at me, I held them so they
couldn't attack any more. When they helped me out I was honestly
grateful. They learned to be competent, and feel competent. I worked to
create an environment where they felt safe and good about themselves, and
they responded by trusting me. It was really cool..
Of course, it was a school, so the principal kept coming and trying to
get me to do other stuff, so we did "points" but that wasn't what
mattered. She also pushed me to get them all "mainstreaming", which they
weren't ready for. And I have a pretty high tolerance for being sworn at,
but it all did pass...
Dar
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: "Myranda" <myrandab@...><<Most kids want to do good, but not all. My 7 yr old has undiagnosed ODD -
he wants and thrives on creating conflict and hurting others. He has to be
given constant reasons to not do so.>>
Myranda, what is ODD?
Mary B
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Myranda
Oppositional Defiance Disorder
Myranda, what is ODD?
Mary B
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda, what is ODD?
Mary B
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Mary Bianco
From: SandraDodd@...
<<I know those of you with toddlers are hoping for them to GET BIG, but I
have big kids, and I would love to have one of them be three for a day or
two, or an hour, or a minute.
And now I cried. They're all not even in the house right now. Kirby's at
work, Marty's helping an adult friend of mine unload a truck (for money and
lunch!) and Holly's off riding bikes with another homeschooler.
I'm going to go read a magazine and feel sorry for myself and wish I had
some
little kids to come wake me up from a nap.>>
Man Sandra, are you psychic or what??? Scary if you ask me.
Last night I was thinking and not sleeping like I should have been but it
was like every other night I have. I was going to post sometime today and
ask if those of you who have older kids ever miss the days when they were
little. Does it bother you that the kids are growing up and not needing like
they do when they are young? Do you ever think about it all or is it just a
natural progression with just the good memories and no sad feelings?
I really would love to have another baby. My husband is the practical one
this time around (will wonders never cease?) and reminds me that we have
already out grown the house of 2 years. Plus I'm getting up there in age and
I had a hard time and almost lost Alyssa. Things that don't bother me but
really bother my husband. He's the one that almost didn't make it through!!!
My 'baby' will be 2 in a couple of weeks and it's on my mind that although
she's 'only' two, she's already two!!!! I can't imagine not having a little
one around.
My husband and our oldest have a little joke between the two of them.
Whenever I talk about the kids growing up, they both say that soon they'll
be all off to college. Then they say they better stop cause mom will start
crying soon!!!!
I guess you answered my question but it wasn't what I wanted to hear.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
<<I know those of you with toddlers are hoping for them to GET BIG, but I
have big kids, and I would love to have one of them be three for a day or
two, or an hour, or a minute.
And now I cried. They're all not even in the house right now. Kirby's at
work, Marty's helping an adult friend of mine unload a truck (for money and
lunch!) and Holly's off riding bikes with another homeschooler.
I'm going to go read a magazine and feel sorry for myself and wish I had
some
little kids to come wake me up from a nap.>>
Man Sandra, are you psychic or what??? Scary if you ask me.
Last night I was thinking and not sleeping like I should have been but it
was like every other night I have. I was going to post sometime today and
ask if those of you who have older kids ever miss the days when they were
little. Does it bother you that the kids are growing up and not needing like
they do when they are young? Do you ever think about it all or is it just a
natural progression with just the good memories and no sad feelings?
I really would love to have another baby. My husband is the practical one
this time around (will wonders never cease?) and reminds me that we have
already out grown the house of 2 years. Plus I'm getting up there in age and
I had a hard time and almost lost Alyssa. Things that don't bother me but
really bother my husband. He's the one that almost didn't make it through!!!
My 'baby' will be 2 in a couple of weeks and it's on my mind that although
she's 'only' two, she's already two!!!! I can't imagine not having a little
one around.
My husband and our oldest have a little joke between the two of them.
Whenever I talk about the kids growing up, they both say that soon they'll
be all off to college. Then they say they better stop cause mom will start
crying soon!!!!
I guess you answered my question but it wasn't what I wanted to hear.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Liz Reid and Errol Strelnikoff
> Oppositional Defiance DisorderTell me this is a joke?
> Myranda, what is ODD?
>
> Mary B
Liz
Stephanie Elms
>Thank you for saying this! My mom and dh seem to think that looking
> Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is
> often way more
> important than "what" to do.
at the why is making excuses for the behavior. That you have a
consequence applied consistently for the behavior. But if you don't know
why a kid is doing it, then how can you get him to stop? Especially when
I have found that things that work for one why will not work for another
(e.g., if Jason is hitting because he is being bugged, I need to handle
it differently then if he is hitting for attention).
Stephanie E.
[email protected]
<< > Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is
Ah! Knowing why the kid is hitting is important too, but you can't always
know (and they don't always know).
I was thinking that explaining/discussing with kids why hitting is to be
avoided is more important than telling them not to hit. Because the "why"
includes more things than hitting. And it can be generalized, by them, to
other situations which are verbal or physical or involve food, or... If it's
about consideration, and peace and safety...
Helping them learn that they can figure out what the "rules" are without
having so many rules helps us as adults remember it too, I think. Learning
to use good judgment and basing decisions on principles instead of just
checking some memorized list of prohibitions makes life richer and more
thoughtful for everybody.
I don't feel I'm experessing myself very well, but I'm really sleepy, so I
should let Marty have the computer back, kiss Holly good night and crawl into
a warm dark place. Sounds great!
Sandra
> often way moreThat was me. I'm quoting myself to clarify.
> important than "what" to do. >>
Ah! Knowing why the kid is hitting is important too, but you can't always
know (and they don't always know).
I was thinking that explaining/discussing with kids why hitting is to be
avoided is more important than telling them not to hit. Because the "why"
includes more things than hitting. And it can be generalized, by them, to
other situations which are verbal or physical or involve food, or... If it's
about consideration, and peace and safety...
Helping them learn that they can figure out what the "rules" are without
having so many rules helps us as adults remember it too, I think. Learning
to use good judgment and basing decisions on principles instead of just
checking some memorized list of prohibitions makes life richer and more
thoughtful for everybody.
I don't feel I'm experessing myself very well, but I'm really sleepy, so I
should let Marty have the computer back, kiss Holly good night and crawl into
a warm dark place. Sounds great!
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/02 10:47:57 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:
<< > Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is
*yawn*
writes:
<< > Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is
> often way morenot experessing myself OR expressing myself OR spelling/typing very well.
> important than "what" to do. >>
*yawn*
Lisa M. C. Bentley
> > Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do isThis reminds me of the overusage of pain killing drugs. My mother, for
> > often way more
> > important than "what" to do.
>
> Thank you for saying this! My mom and dh seem to think that looking
> at the why is making excuses for the behavior. That you have a
> consequence applied consistently for the behavior. But if you don't know
> why a kid is doing it, then how can you get him to stop? Especially when
> I have found that things that work for one why will not work for another
> (e.g., if Jason is hitting because he is being bugged, I need to handle
> it differently then if he is hitting for attention).
example, can't live without at least 4 Extra Strength Tylenol and one
shot of Imitrex (migraine shot) a day (and this is just what she admits
to). She has no idea whatsoever what is causing her pain, she just
masks it. Over and over and over again. When I lived with her, I
learned to mask all my aches and pains with Tylenol, too. Now that I am
an adult, I have learned to figure out what is causing the pain, fix it,
and miraculously the pain goes away and I don't need _any_ sort of pain
killing drug to ease my woes. :) We've been raised in a "one pill
cures all" society. There are even commercials touting this and most
doctors agree to it. Mask the symptoms of what ails you and you can
continue your day as if nothing was ever wrong with your body. Ugh.
It's the same thinking of spank the kid if he hits, but don't bother to
ask them why they hit.
-Lisa
Mica
How can we be sure what a child's "why" is? I'm thinking particularly
when it comes to the need for attention or jealousy or other motivations
that are difficult for an individual to realise within themselves?
The question comes up for me in situations where I try to respond
thoughtfully to my children's behaviour while my husband and extended
family want to stick to judgemental black/white wrong/right assessments.
I'll ask the kids why they did whatever (eg hitting/ whining/
resisting/ ignoring/ disobeying) and brainstorm for myself how the
child's view of things might be, and I'm told similar to Stephanie -
that I'm making excuses, or letting the kids "rule the roost".
Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
when it comes to the need for attention or jealousy or other motivations
that are difficult for an individual to realise within themselves?
The question comes up for me in situations where I try to respond
thoughtfully to my children's behaviour while my husband and extended
family want to stick to judgemental black/white wrong/right assessments.
I'll ask the kids why they did whatever (eg hitting/ whining/
resisting/ ignoring/ disobeying) and brainstorm for myself how the
child's view of things might be, and I'm told similar to Stephanie -
that I'm making excuses, or letting the kids "rule the roost".
Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
> -----Original Message-----know
> From: Stephanie Elms [mailto:stephanie.elms@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 2:47 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] hitting
>
> >
> > Kids are bright and they want to be good. "Why" to do is
> > often way more
> > important than "what" to do.
>
> Thank you for saying this! My mom and dh seem to think that looking
> at the why is making excuses for the behavior. That you have a
> consequence applied consistently for the behavior. But if you don't
> why a kid is doing it, then how can you get him to stop? Especiallywhen
> I have found that things that work for one why will not work foranother
> (e.g., if Jason is hitting because he is being bugged, I need tohandle
> it differently then if he is hitting for attention).email
>
> Stephanie E.
>
>
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>
Myranda
A joke? I wish. Why would you ask?
Myranda
Tell me this is a joke?
Liz
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Tell me this is a joke?
Liz
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 16:41 10/2/02 +1000, Mica wrote:
something, but I'm not sure that's entirely the point. I can remember my
folks angrily asking me for the reasons behind my misbehavior when I was
little, and all I could come up with was, "I don't know." And, I didn't
know. But, maybe I did or could have known. Maybe without the pressure of
having to justify my actions under duress and the threat of getting the
"belt," I could have learned more about myself in the process. But, would
it have been good enough to appease my angry mom and dad? Probably
not. So why even bother?
I think when we help our kids brainstorm to find their reasons, we are
helping them understand and trust themselves (and us) better, not for our
sake but for theirs! I *still* don't understand why I do what I do
sometimes. And that's because (I think) I was taught that my reasons
didn't matter. I think my son (almost 8 y.o.) may have a better grip on
his reasons because he has not had to justify himself to me. (Pardon the
muddled rambling here. I'm not sure I'm making any sense at all!)
that the kindness we show our children when they are small is an investment
we make in the care of our grandchildren. So, while your husband and
extended family may not get it at all, your children are getting an
excellent education in parenting.
I think it also may help to remember that we cannot control anyone else;
the only person we have any control over at all is ourselves. The valuable
gift you are giving to your children is your demonstration of compassion
towards others. I would bet that they are not missing it, either.
I really don't know if this makes any sense at all; I'm sitting here in my
pajamas working the "graveyard shift." I hope this helps a little, though.
Love,
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>How can we be sure what a child's "why" is? I'm thinking particularly*We* parents may not be able to sure about the reasons a child does
>when it comes to the need for attention or jealousy or other motivations
>that are difficult for an individual to realise within themselves?
something, but I'm not sure that's entirely the point. I can remember my
folks angrily asking me for the reasons behind my misbehavior when I was
little, and all I could come up with was, "I don't know." And, I didn't
know. But, maybe I did or could have known. Maybe without the pressure of
having to justify my actions under duress and the threat of getting the
"belt," I could have learned more about myself in the process. But, would
it have been good enough to appease my angry mom and dad? Probably
not. So why even bother?
I think when we help our kids brainstorm to find their reasons, we are
helping them understand and trust themselves (and us) better, not for our
sake but for theirs! I *still* don't understand why I do what I do
sometimes. And that's because (I think) I was taught that my reasons
didn't matter. I think my son (almost 8 y.o.) may have a better grip on
his reasons because he has not had to justify himself to me. (Pardon the
muddled rambling here. I'm not sure I'm making any sense at all!)
>The question comes up for me in situations where I try to respondWhen my son was very small someone mentioned to me (or perhaps I read it)
>thoughtfully to my children's behaviour while my husband and extended
>family want to stick to judgemental black/white wrong/right assessments.
>I'll ask the kids why they did whatever (eg hitting/ whining/
>resisting/ ignoring/ disobeying) and brainstorm for myself how the
>child's view of things might be, and I'm told similar to Stephanie -
>that I'm making excuses, or letting the kids "rule the roost".
that the kindness we show our children when they are small is an investment
we make in the care of our grandchildren. So, while your husband and
extended family may not get it at all, your children are getting an
excellent education in parenting.
I think it also may help to remember that we cannot control anyone else;
the only person we have any control over at all is ourselves. The valuable
gift you are giving to your children is your demonstration of compassion
towards others. I would bet that they are not missing it, either.
I really don't know if this makes any sense at all; I'm sitting here in my
pajamas working the "graveyard shift." I hope this helps a little, though.
Love,
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephanie Elms
> How can we be sure what a child's "why" is? I'm thinking particularlyI don't actually ask *him* why (because I think that you are right...they often
> when it comes to the need for attention or jealousy or other
> motivations
> that are difficult for an individual to realize within themselves?
don't know). I observe things and will make comments like, you seem really upset
or Kyle is really bugging you (being fully open to him saying no you are wrong).
I use my guess at the why more for keeping my calm. It is much easier for me to
deal with a kid who is tired, who is ticked at his brother, who needs more
attention then to deal with a kid who is "disrespectful" (my dh's big hot button),
"mean" or "bad". Just because I understand (or think that I understand) the why
does not mean that I let the behavior continue...it does give me more info to
use in handling the problem though.
Stephanie E.