Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] alarming generalizations (sorry, long)
[email protected]
Hi all, Jacli (Cleopatra) here :)
Just a quick note. As much as I enjoy and learn from every
digest on this list I
still felt a need to add this note. I am a dark skinned
Costa Rican with 7 sisters and brothers and my hubby one of
three and is from Northern Italian. Every time I read a
post about Irish or Italian families
yelling or Spanish/Mexican families having bad tempers I
cringe. It reminds me of
nasty comments made by teachers when I was little about
Mexicans being lazy
or assumptions by highschool boys about Spanish girls.
I do not believe that any person on this list wrote with
malicious intent but I do
believe that these kinds of generalizations hurt and
cripple. My parents were both
abusers. Physically, emotionally. Growing up in my house
was akin to growing up in
a battlefield. My father was vicious and my mother
mentally unstable. I never knew
what would set her off, every day, every night was a trip
through the minefields.
I remember once an aunt of mine happened by just after my
father had punched my 4 year
old brother's head into a wall (he had spilt milk on the
table). She sent my uncle into the room to take care of
him while she tended to my black eye and split lip. I
remember her breath on my face
while she told me it was not his fault, since their father
beat all of them. I also remember
thinking, no it is his fault.
My father and mother were abusers. Not because of past
connections or treatment or
even because of being Costa Rican. They were abusers
period. My father was a silent striker.
He didn't yell. He didn't raise his voice. Just his fist.
My husband has a gentle nature and a soft spoken way. His
family live in America now and are as different from mine
as night and day. They are extraordinarrily quiet and
jovial and gentle people.
I think we need always to remember that people are who they
are because of the choices they make and the environment
they make them in. I am a very quiet individual, so are
most of my brothers and sisters. Except for the ones who
are loud. Because that's just the way they are.
I don't usually share this much personal info (ever
actually) nor do I usually write long posts.
But I had to write and let folks know that at least one
person has been offended by the use of
these generalizations.
thanks for listening
Just a quick note. As much as I enjoy and learn from every
digest on this list I
still felt a need to add this note. I am a dark skinned
Costa Rican with 7 sisters and brothers and my hubby one of
three and is from Northern Italian. Every time I read a
post about Irish or Italian families
yelling or Spanish/Mexican families having bad tempers I
cringe. It reminds me of
nasty comments made by teachers when I was little about
Mexicans being lazy
or assumptions by highschool boys about Spanish girls.
I do not believe that any person on this list wrote with
malicious intent but I do
believe that these kinds of generalizations hurt and
cripple. My parents were both
abusers. Physically, emotionally. Growing up in my house
was akin to growing up in
a battlefield. My father was vicious and my mother
mentally unstable. I never knew
what would set her off, every day, every night was a trip
through the minefields.
I remember once an aunt of mine happened by just after my
father had punched my 4 year
old brother's head into a wall (he had spilt milk on the
table). She sent my uncle into the room to take care of
him while she tended to my black eye and split lip. I
remember her breath on my face
while she told me it was not his fault, since their father
beat all of them. I also remember
thinking, no it is his fault.
My father and mother were abusers. Not because of past
connections or treatment or
even because of being Costa Rican. They were abusers
period. My father was a silent striker.
He didn't yell. He didn't raise his voice. Just his fist.
My husband has a gentle nature and a soft spoken way. His
family live in America now and are as different from mine
as night and day. They are extraordinarrily quiet and
jovial and gentle people.
I think we need always to remember that people are who they
are because of the choices they make and the environment
they make them in. I am a very quiet individual, so are
most of my brothers and sisters. Except for the ones who
are loud. Because that's just the way they are.
I don't usually share this much personal info (ever
actually) nor do I usually write long posts.
But I had to write and let folks know that at least one
person has been offended by the use of
these generalizations.
thanks for listening
rumpleteasermom
I'm sorry that you were offended, but I'm not sure you understand what
Lynda was saying. She was not talking about abusive people. You get
that everywhere in every group. She was talking about the cultural
dfifferences that often cause people to misunderstand the intent of
others.
I grew up in a hot-headed Irish family. They could argue circles
around most other people I know. But no matter how much they
disagreed, they were still family, still loved one another and
harbored no grudges. There was no abuse, physical or verbal going on.
But to an outsider it sure could look like they all hated each other.
When I was in my late 20's I met a man who also had a similar
background. We did not agree on anything politically, but we loved to
talk to each other and discuss stuff - because we both understood
that it was no reflection on how we felt about each otehr. One
night, we sat in a Sokol Club bar for about four hours talking about
every political and social thing you can think of. When we got up to
leave, an older woman sitting at the bar said, "That was some
arguement!" and we replied in unison, "That was no argument, that was
a discussion!"
Anyway, I hope this helps you to understand where we are coming from
when we say some cultures are louder than others.
Bridget
Lynda was saying. She was not talking about abusive people. You get
that everywhere in every group. She was talking about the cultural
dfifferences that often cause people to misunderstand the intent of
others.
I grew up in a hot-headed Irish family. They could argue circles
around most other people I know. But no matter how much they
disagreed, they were still family, still loved one another and
harbored no grudges. There was no abuse, physical or verbal going on.
But to an outsider it sure could look like they all hated each other.
When I was in my late 20's I met a man who also had a similar
background. We did not agree on anything politically, but we loved to
talk to each other and discuss stuff - because we both understood
that it was no reflection on how we felt about each otehr. One
night, we sat in a Sokol Club bar for about four hours talking about
every political and social thing you can think of. When we got up to
leave, an older woman sitting at the bar said, "That was some
arguement!" and we replied in unison, "That was no argument, that was
a discussion!"
Anyway, I hope this helps you to understand where we are coming from
when we say some cultures are louder than others.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., cleopatra@1... wrote:
>
> I don't usually share this much personal info (ever
> actually) nor do I usually write long posts.
> But I had to write and let folks know that at least one
> person has been offended by the use of
> these generalizations.
>
> thanks for listening
zenmomma *
>>I think folks need to step away from their personal experiences whichPretty hard to do, don't you think? Our personal experiences make up a big
>>shadow what they read.>>
part of who we are, especially one's ethnicity. For me, it's always been a
rule of thumb to not make any generalizations based on race or ethnicity. I
tend to stay away from religion even. There are other ways to make a point,
no?
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Kara Bauer
She was talking about the cultural
dfifferences that often cause people to misunderstand the intent of
others.
I grew up in a hot-headed Irish family. They could argue circles
around most other people I know.>>
I have to agree here, my family is Greek and I can honestly say WE EAT! A LOT :) That's one things Greeks do is eat and dance, LOL
KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dfifferences that often cause people to misunderstand the intent of
others.
I grew up in a hot-headed Irish family. They could argue circles
around most other people I know.>>
I have to agree here, my family is Greek and I can honestly say WE EAT! A LOT :) That's one things Greeks do is eat and dance, LOL
KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
My husband's family is Presbyterian, and both sides are of (long ago)
Scottish and English background. One side came from Canada and Michigan
(that border area), and the other: Boston.
They are quiet, uptight, non-communicative and cheap.
Is it because they're Scottish? Presbyterian? Which comes first, the
chicken or the egg?
My husband used to think I was angry every time I disagreed or raised my
voice. I thought he was being mean when he didn't respond. We got over it.
The world is full of genetic and cultural realities. Unfortunately we are
trying to live in such a politically correct world that, like the Emperor's
New Clothes, it's considered courteous to say "OOOH! We're all the same.
How awful that some people see differences. They are wrong."
I really enjoy passing through an airport when I'm not in a hurry and trying
to guess from the people sitting at a gate where they're from or who they're
meeting. Or to just look at people getting out of a plane, without looking
at the sign at the desk identifying where they've come from. There are
clues in carriage, clothing, hair, make-up, even before you get to accent.
Once in northern California I spotted the to-New Mexico gate EASILY (which is
too easy, because I'm from there). The sad thing is I wasn't on my way to
New Mexico! LOL! But there were turban-wearing American Sikhs (the 3HO
organization), and older Hispanic guys with Pendleton shirts, jeans and
boots, and the rest weren't as distinctive, but still looked very much like
normal New Mexicans.
I've picked out Midwesterners because there are some faces and body-builds
that are SO Nebraska/Kansas/Missouri, and they wear two shirts a lot, the
guys. Flannel over something, or a patterned shirt over something.
California's easy sometimes; Texas REALLY easy (and sometimes embarrassing,
like when two 747's unloaded early in London years ago, one from Atlanta and
one from Dallas. Both planes were late, but the Atlanta flight folks were
quiet and polite, compared to the loud Texans who were talking right over and
through the locals like they were props. I was with the Texans, trying to be
invisible.
These are generalizations, but also observations of real life. Stereotypes
aren't made up from nothing. That's the embarrassing kernel of truth we have
to try to guard against. There IS a reality there. NOW what do we do? I
think saying we see the emperor's new clothes when we really don't is not the
best choice.
Sandra
Scottish and English background. One side came from Canada and Michigan
(that border area), and the other: Boston.
They are quiet, uptight, non-communicative and cheap.
Is it because they're Scottish? Presbyterian? Which comes first, the
chicken or the egg?
My husband used to think I was angry every time I disagreed or raised my
voice. I thought he was being mean when he didn't respond. We got over it.
The world is full of genetic and cultural realities. Unfortunately we are
trying to live in such a politically correct world that, like the Emperor's
New Clothes, it's considered courteous to say "OOOH! We're all the same.
How awful that some people see differences. They are wrong."
I really enjoy passing through an airport when I'm not in a hurry and trying
to guess from the people sitting at a gate where they're from or who they're
meeting. Or to just look at people getting out of a plane, without looking
at the sign at the desk identifying where they've come from. There are
clues in carriage, clothing, hair, make-up, even before you get to accent.
Once in northern California I spotted the to-New Mexico gate EASILY (which is
too easy, because I'm from there). The sad thing is I wasn't on my way to
New Mexico! LOL! But there were turban-wearing American Sikhs (the 3HO
organization), and older Hispanic guys with Pendleton shirts, jeans and
boots, and the rest weren't as distinctive, but still looked very much like
normal New Mexicans.
I've picked out Midwesterners because there are some faces and body-builds
that are SO Nebraska/Kansas/Missouri, and they wear two shirts a lot, the
guys. Flannel over something, or a patterned shirt over something.
California's easy sometimes; Texas REALLY easy (and sometimes embarrassing,
like when two 747's unloaded early in London years ago, one from Atlanta and
one from Dallas. Both planes were late, but the Atlanta flight folks were
quiet and polite, compared to the loud Texans who were talking right over and
through the locals like they were props. I was with the Texans, trying to be
invisible.
These are generalizations, but also observations of real life. Stereotypes
aren't made up from nothing. That's the embarrassing kernel of truth we have
to try to guard against. There IS a reality there. NOW what do we do? I
think saying we see the emperor's new clothes when we really don't is not the
best choice.
Sandra
rumpleteasermom
If you have any Greek recipes you'd like to share . . .
off-list is okay too!
Bridget
I love greek food, expecially Kalamata Olives, Feta Cheese and
Tiropita (spelling???)
off-list is okay too!
Bridget
I love greek food, expecially Kalamata Olives, Feta Cheese and
Tiropita (spelling???)
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Kara Bauer" <KaraBauer4@m...> wrote:
>
> I have to agree here, my family is Greek and I can honestly say WE
EAT! A LOT :) That's one things Greeks do is eat and dance, LOL
>
> KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
>
Helen Hegener
At 11:15 AM -0500 3/20/2002, SandraDodd@... wrote:
to find our oldest son, John. Anchorage had had the worst snowfall
since 1957 the night his plane was to take off - along with
lower-than-normal temperatures. The wings were re-icing faster than
the crews could get them de-iced, so after sitting on the runway for
four hours they cancelled the flight. The next day was confusing,
because we kept getting mixes messages from the airlines, his wife
(100 miles north of the airport), our other sons in Alaska (also 100
miles from where John was), and various other sources. Finally we
pinned down via the airline that he'd gotten on a particular plane,
but reports were mixed whether the plane had actually left Anchorage
or not. So we trucked back down to the airport and sat there in the
main terminal, which was as close as security would let us get,
watching planeloads of people coming through and trying to figure out
if any of them looked like Alaskans.
Saw a group of lobsters in bermuda shorts get off a flight from
Florida. Bright serapes and big sombreros tipped us to a flight from
Mexico. Leis and big floral prints = Hawaii. One flight was primarily
suits with briefcases - didn't look Alaskan at all. Another flight
included several families in colorful ethnic dresses - silks, mostly,
probably some Asian country. And then we started seeing what we'd
been watching for. Haggard, steely-eyed, unshaven, snowboots, parkas
- it was Alaskans, sure enough. And toward the end of the group came
John, wearing his fur-trimmed parka, oversize bunny boots, needed a
shave, really needed some sleep, but still smiling. Waved so long to
a couple of friends he'd made in the ordeal and gave us all big hugs.
Yeah, airports are interesting. Even more interesting these days
watching people trying to get through the security gates. One big
burly fellow raised a terrible ruckus when they told him he'd been
selected for a random search - he started yelling that he'd already
been through three "random" searches on that trip and as far as he
was concerned there was nothing "random" about it, that something
about him was raising their red flags, so why didn't they just quit
playing games and tell him what it was about him that they didn't
like? Pretty entertaining.
Helen
>I really enjoy passing through an airport when I'm not in a hurry and tryingThis is just what we were doing the other night at Sea-Tac - trying
>to guess from the people sitting at a gate where they're from or who they're
>meeting.
to find our oldest son, John. Anchorage had had the worst snowfall
since 1957 the night his plane was to take off - along with
lower-than-normal temperatures. The wings were re-icing faster than
the crews could get them de-iced, so after sitting on the runway for
four hours they cancelled the flight. The next day was confusing,
because we kept getting mixes messages from the airlines, his wife
(100 miles north of the airport), our other sons in Alaska (also 100
miles from where John was), and various other sources. Finally we
pinned down via the airline that he'd gotten on a particular plane,
but reports were mixed whether the plane had actually left Anchorage
or not. So we trucked back down to the airport and sat there in the
main terminal, which was as close as security would let us get,
watching planeloads of people coming through and trying to figure out
if any of them looked like Alaskans.
Saw a group of lobsters in bermuda shorts get off a flight from
Florida. Bright serapes and big sombreros tipped us to a flight from
Mexico. Leis and big floral prints = Hawaii. One flight was primarily
suits with briefcases - didn't look Alaskan at all. Another flight
included several families in colorful ethnic dresses - silks, mostly,
probably some Asian country. And then we started seeing what we'd
been watching for. Haggard, steely-eyed, unshaven, snowboots, parkas
- it was Alaskans, sure enough. And toward the end of the group came
John, wearing his fur-trimmed parka, oversize bunny boots, needed a
shave, really needed some sleep, but still smiling. Waved so long to
a couple of friends he'd made in the ordeal and gave us all big hugs.
Yeah, airports are interesting. Even more interesting these days
watching people trying to get through the security gates. One big
burly fellow raised a terrible ruckus when they told him he'd been
selected for a random search - he started yelling that he'd already
been through three "random" searches on that trip and as far as he
was concerned there was nothing "random" about it, that something
about him was raising their red flags, so why didn't they just quit
playing games and tell him what it was about him that they didn't
like? Pretty entertaining.
Helen
Lynda
Oh, one of our favorite restaurants was Greek at a winery set in a really
old refurbished hop kiln. %-{ it is too far away to visit now. So, you
said you were coming to cook dinner when?? And you will bring the
musicians!
Lynda
old refurbished hop kiln. %-{ it is too far away to visit now. So, you
said you were coming to cook dinner when?? And you will bring the
musicians!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kara Bauer" <KaraBauer4@...>
To: "Unschooling-dotcom" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: alarming generalizations (sorry, long)
> She was talking about the cultural
> dfifferences that often cause people to misunderstand the intent of
> others.
>
> I grew up in a hot-headed Irish family. They could argue circles
> around most other people I know.>>
>
> I have to agree here, my family is Greek and I can honestly say WE EAT! A
LOT :) That's one things Greeks do is eat and dance, LOL
>
> KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Kara Bauer
Oh, one of our favorite restaurants was Greek at a winery set in a really
old refurbished hop kiln. %-{ it is too far away to visit now. So, you
said you were coming to cook dinner when?? And you will bring the
musicians!>>
Funny thing, I don't like to cook ;) My Yia Ya (who actually is my great-grandmother) does a good deal of it and now my grandmother & grandfather.... one day, I may but heck I will bring the music :)
KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
old refurbished hop kiln. %-{ it is too far away to visit now. So, you
said you were coming to cook dinner when?? And you will bring the
musicians!>>
Funny thing, I don't like to cook ;) My Yia Ya (who actually is my great-grandmother) does a good deal of it and now my grandmother & grandfather.... one day, I may but heck I will bring the music :)
KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
The kidlets have decided to learn to make cheese. We have a cheese factory
locally that makes organic cheese and we have to make regular trips there
because they do free samples (for the kidlets) and extra sharp cheddar (that
would be for hubby). There is also a goat dairy that does absolutely to die
for Feta cheese! We haven't found a recipe for that yet but they have
collected several other recipes that they want to try when the weather warms
up a bit more. Seems you have to have a pretty constant temp or something.
Couldn't prove it by me but they've been reading up on it and that's what
they are waiting for.
Lynda
locally that makes organic cheese and we have to make regular trips there
because they do free samples (for the kidlets) and extra sharp cheddar (that
would be for hubby). There is also a goat dairy that does absolutely to die
for Feta cheese! We haven't found a recipe for that yet but they have
collected several other recipes that they want to try when the weather warms
up a bit more. Seems you have to have a pretty constant temp or something.
Couldn't prove it by me but they've been reading up on it and that's what
they are waiting for.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "rumpleteasermom" <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: alarming generalizations (sorry, long)
> If you have any Greek recipes you'd like to share . . .
>
> off-list is okay too!
>
> Bridget
> I love greek food, expecially Kalamata Olives, Feta Cheese and
> Tiropita (spelling???)
>
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Kara Bauer" <KaraBauer4@m...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have to agree here, my family is Greek and I can honestly say WE
> EAT! A LOT :) That's one things Greeks do is eat and dance, LOL
> >
> > KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
> http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>