Unschooling or not?
Helen Hegener
At 1:54 AM +0000 3/12/2002, [email protected] wrote:
whatever" could very well be unschooling just as much as anything
else. We're about as rabidly unschoolish as you can get, but there
are all kinds of things we require our kids to do. None of them
relate to education in the traditional sense of the word, but when
one doesn't separate learning from life, as we don't, where does one
draw the line?
Just a little food for thought, since this list's been so quiet. <g>
Helen
> It's important to remember that I don't know WHAT you do, I can onlyInteresting, but put me in the camp that says "requiring them to do
>respond to what you wrote.. When you say "I require them to....do X" That is
>in my and many other unschoolers opinions, not part of unschooling.
whatever" could very well be unschooling just as much as anything
else. We're about as rabidly unschoolish as you can get, but there
are all kinds of things we require our kids to do. None of them
relate to education in the traditional sense of the word, but when
one doesn't separate learning from life, as we don't, where does one
draw the line?
Just a little food for thought, since this list's been so quiet. <g>
Helen
Buttons
We are unschoolers and in our home there is a lot that is "required".
Regular bathing and changing of the undies (Eeew), feeding the animals,
picking up after yourself, not eating too much junk, and so on and so on.
To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have rules is simply
ludicrous. We're all different and if that works for you that's great! That
would not work for us. If we didn't have rules at our home we'd be living
in a filthy, piled up with junk to the ceiling home with no clean clothes
or dishes, no healthy food, and dead animals. That's not much of an
incentive for a change here, eh?
I wonder about the unlimited tv viewing though, is it hours and hours daily
because that's how your post came across to me. Are you watching it with
them and talking about what they're seeing?
This is JMHO and it works for me and mine - I do not allow unlmited tv for
the same reason I wouldn't drop a child at a strip bar. Not only are some
of the shows nasty but some commercials are also, I'm not sure which are
worse! Don't get me wrong, we watch some tv but there is a limit to how
much and what is watched. Playing, reading, writing or staring at the wall
is preferable.
If I have to do away with all rules to be a "real" unschooler well, so be
it, it's just a label and I'm not big on labels anyway :-D
I don't use the label "unschooler" anyway unless I'm around other
homeschoolers so they know what "style" of homeschooling we do. The general
public doesn't really have a clue what it means, and some homeschoolers
don't either. The label I normally use is "home educator", which everyone
seems to understand, I am at home educating the next generation with my
words and actions. I dislike using "homeschool" because we do not "school
at home" but that's just my idiosyncrasy. I don't judge others who use that
label, knowing it's just a general label that lumps us all together - the
school at homers, the unschoolers and everyone in between.
It's our actions that show who we are, not our labels, wouldn't you agree?
Buttons
--------
Regular bathing and changing of the undies (Eeew), feeding the animals,
picking up after yourself, not eating too much junk, and so on and so on.
To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have rules is simply
ludicrous. We're all different and if that works for you that's great! That
would not work for us. If we didn't have rules at our home we'd be living
in a filthy, piled up with junk to the ceiling home with no clean clothes
or dishes, no healthy food, and dead animals. That's not much of an
incentive for a change here, eh?
I wonder about the unlimited tv viewing though, is it hours and hours daily
because that's how your post came across to me. Are you watching it with
them and talking about what they're seeing?
This is JMHO and it works for me and mine - I do not allow unlmited tv for
the same reason I wouldn't drop a child at a strip bar. Not only are some
of the shows nasty but some commercials are also, I'm not sure which are
worse! Don't get me wrong, we watch some tv but there is a limit to how
much and what is watched. Playing, reading, writing or staring at the wall
is preferable.
If I have to do away with all rules to be a "real" unschooler well, so be
it, it's just a label and I'm not big on labels anyway :-D
I don't use the label "unschooler" anyway unless I'm around other
homeschoolers so they know what "style" of homeschooling we do. The general
public doesn't really have a clue what it means, and some homeschoolers
don't either. The label I normally use is "home educator", which everyone
seems to understand, I am at home educating the next generation with my
words and actions. I dislike using "homeschool" because we do not "school
at home" but that's just my idiosyncrasy. I don't judge others who use that
label, knowing it's just a general label that lumps us all together - the
school at homers, the unschoolers and everyone in between.
It's our actions that show who we are, not our labels, wouldn't you agree?
Buttons
--------
> At 1:54 AM +0000 3/12/2002, [email protected] wrote:That is
> > It's important to remember that I don't know WHAT you do, I can only
> >respond to what you wrote.. When you say "I require them to....do X"
> >in my and many other unschoolers opinions, not part of unschooling.
>
> Interesting, but put me in the camp that says "requiring them to do
> whatever" could very well be unschooling just as much as anything
> else. We're about as rabidly unschoolish as you can get, but there
> are all kinds of things we require our kids to do. None of them
> relate to education in the traditional sense of the word, but when
> one doesn't separate learning from life, as we don't, where does one
> draw the line?
>
> Just a little food for thought, since this list's been so quiet. <g>
>
> Helen
>
>
>
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rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., <ElissaJC@c...> wrote:
all unschoolers must live totally unruled lives is ludacrous.
Bridget
> <<We are unschoolers and in our home there is a lot that is"required".
> Regular bathing and changing of the undies (Eeew), feeding theanimals,
> picking up after yourself, not eating too much junk, and so on andso on.
> To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have rules is simplyShe did NOT say that you were ludacrous. She said that to imply that
> ludicrous.>>
> ****My beliefs are NOT ludicrous. That was mean.
all unschoolers must live totally unruled lives is ludacrous.
Bridget
[email protected]
<<We are unschoolers and in our home there is a lot that is "required".
Regular bathing and changing of the undies (Eeew), feeding the animals,
picking up after yourself, not eating too much junk, and so on and so on.
To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have rules is simply
ludicrous.>>
****My beliefs are NOT ludicrous. That was mean.
My kids change their underwear because when they don't they get rashes. My
kids don't eat too much junk because I don't buy just junk, I buy a mixture
of foods. A few junk items that they can eat mostly when they want. By
mostly I mean if thye are getting something out of the cabinet adn it is 5
minutes before dinner I remind them that I have made a big meal and they
might want to put their food on the table so they can eat it WITH thier
meal. I think most adults would admit to sticking a cookie or similar item
in their mouth 'cause they are so hungry before dinner. To me it's the same
thing.
<<We're all different and if that works for you that's great! >>
****I was sharing what works for me.
<<That would not work for us. If we didn't have rules at our home we'd be
living
in a filthy, piled up with junk to the ceiling home with no clean clothes
or dishes, no healthy food, and dead animals. That's not much of an
incentive for a change here, eh?>>
***Have you tried it? Or are you assuming?
Do you really believe that if you didn't have rules, your pets would starve
to death? Isn't caring about another living being ENOUGH of an incentive?
Isn't hunger enough of an incentive to buy groceries? Isn't knowledge of
good nutrition and a desire to be healthy enough incentive? I feel sad when
people say that they would just do nothing without rules.
<<I wonder about the unlimited tv viewing though, is it hours and hours
daily
because that's how your post came across to me. Are you watching it with
them and talking about what they're seeing?>>
***I'm not sure who you're asking becuse it's easy to forget exactly who
said what since we have no visuals of each other but I am going to answer
how WE handle this. Just because TV is unlimited doesn't mean our lives
revolve around it. some days we do have the TV on alot, some days we don't.
When I get tired of hearing the noise of TV I get involved with the kids, I
get out the paints, I get the sidewalk chalks and we go outside (note to
self: hit Target for chalks, Spiring is almost here!!) I play a board game
with them, we play Hide and go seek. But if I am answering emails, reading
unschooling.com, cooking something that requires concentration, or painting
my toenails, I can't always expect my kids to think of ideas that will tear
them away from Rugrats. basically, in thinking, they tend to watch TV when i
am not paying attention.
Sometimes we do watch together, DH more than me. I tend to sit with teh kids
and watch the shows that some would think inappropriate. For example, I
watch Will & Grace with my daughter because the underlying theme of the show
is human sexuality, hetero and homosexual. I want the definitions of terms
to come from me, not for her to sit and wonder. I watch COPS with the kids
and we talk about hte peoples choices on the show. (I love Cops!!!!)
<<This is JMHO and it works for me and mine - I do not allow unlmited tv for
the same reason I wouldn't drop a child at a strip bar. Not only are some
of the shows nasty but some commercials are also, I'm not sure which are
worse! Don't get me wrong, we watch some tv but there is a limit to how
much and what is watched. >>
I believe that TV broadens horizons and I trust that my kids will watch teh
shows that they are ready for. Emily doesn't watch alot of videos on MTV
which I agree can be "nasty" (I take it you mean sexually explicit?) but she
doesn't need to. Nickelodeon does TONS of videos that are aimed at the
Tweens adn teens. Emily tends to not watch the news, she'll peek in here and
there but I think it gets a little intense (especially now) so she tunes it
out. Kids will not watch something that makes them uncomfortable unless
forced to. Would you? You probably would change the channel. I trust my
children to do the same.
<<Playing, reading, writing or staring at the wall
is preferable.>>
****Why? What if that's not what they want to do at the moment? If your
child painted all day to the exclusion of all else, would this be bad? What
if that is their "thing"?
<<If I have to do away with all rules to be a "real" unschooler well, so be
it,>>
I have rules,
No doing drugs and drinking under age of majority, I am not going to jail
for you.
No stealing
No lying
more stuff like that. When I say Rules, I mean teh typical rules of the
house stuff like, It's Johhny's job to do the dishes every night and if he
doesn't there is a punishnment. If I ask for help with something (asking
not requiring) and I don't get the help, it will take me longer to get it
done and we may miss out on going somewhere fun. I do remind them of that,
"We have to be at Debra's house at noon, could someone empty the dishwasher
becasue I won't have enough time before we need to leave" They can say no,
but if we don't get there until 12:30 and the mini-van caravan has already
left for the field trip, we're out of luck. That's a natural consequence.
(Here's an aside: I was at the park the otehr day and there was a big school
group. the teacher said to a boy who was baout 5 feet out of line, Johnny,
get back in line. If you can't stay in line, you won't come to the park next
time. That's a natural consequence." My thought: NO!, that's a punishment. A
natural consequence would be Johnny seperates from the group, gets lost and
is scared and alone.)
<<it's just a label and I'm not big on labels anyway :-D
I don't use the label "unschooler" anyway unless I'm around other
homeschoolers so they know what "style" of homeschooling we do. >>
I don't homeschool. i don't school. I didn't pick the label unschooler, it
was given to me as a way of explaining what I and many others do.
<<The general
public doesn't really have a clue what it means, and some homeschoolers
don't either.>>
That's why I use it to anyone I meet.(except my Aunt who is a second grade
teacher, she will never understand and I don't choose to get into it with
her.) . I want people to understand it, I want it to become the norm. or at
the very least a well known and respected option in education. If I don't
use it and don't continually explain it, how will that happen?
<< The label I normally use is "home educator", which everyone
seems to understand, I am at home educating the next generation with my
words and actions. I dislike using "homeschool" because we do not "school
at home" but that's just my idiosyncrasy. I don't judge others who use that
label, knowing it's just a general label that lumps us all together - the
school at homers, the unschoolers and everyone in between.
It's our actions that show who we are, not our labels, wouldn't you agree?>>
Absolutely!!
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
Regular bathing and changing of the undies (Eeew), feeding the animals,
picking up after yourself, not eating too much junk, and so on and so on.
To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have rules is simply
ludicrous.>>
****My beliefs are NOT ludicrous. That was mean.
My kids change their underwear because when they don't they get rashes. My
kids don't eat too much junk because I don't buy just junk, I buy a mixture
of foods. A few junk items that they can eat mostly when they want. By
mostly I mean if thye are getting something out of the cabinet adn it is 5
minutes before dinner I remind them that I have made a big meal and they
might want to put their food on the table so they can eat it WITH thier
meal. I think most adults would admit to sticking a cookie or similar item
in their mouth 'cause they are so hungry before dinner. To me it's the same
thing.
<<We're all different and if that works for you that's great! >>
****I was sharing what works for me.
<<That would not work for us. If we didn't have rules at our home we'd be
living
in a filthy, piled up with junk to the ceiling home with no clean clothes
or dishes, no healthy food, and dead animals. That's not much of an
incentive for a change here, eh?>>
***Have you tried it? Or are you assuming?
Do you really believe that if you didn't have rules, your pets would starve
to death? Isn't caring about another living being ENOUGH of an incentive?
Isn't hunger enough of an incentive to buy groceries? Isn't knowledge of
good nutrition and a desire to be healthy enough incentive? I feel sad when
people say that they would just do nothing without rules.
<<I wonder about the unlimited tv viewing though, is it hours and hours
daily
because that's how your post came across to me. Are you watching it with
them and talking about what they're seeing?>>
***I'm not sure who you're asking becuse it's easy to forget exactly who
said what since we have no visuals of each other but I am going to answer
how WE handle this. Just because TV is unlimited doesn't mean our lives
revolve around it. some days we do have the TV on alot, some days we don't.
When I get tired of hearing the noise of TV I get involved with the kids, I
get out the paints, I get the sidewalk chalks and we go outside (note to
self: hit Target for chalks, Spiring is almost here!!) I play a board game
with them, we play Hide and go seek. But if I am answering emails, reading
unschooling.com, cooking something that requires concentration, or painting
my toenails, I can't always expect my kids to think of ideas that will tear
them away from Rugrats. basically, in thinking, they tend to watch TV when i
am not paying attention.
Sometimes we do watch together, DH more than me. I tend to sit with teh kids
and watch the shows that some would think inappropriate. For example, I
watch Will & Grace with my daughter because the underlying theme of the show
is human sexuality, hetero and homosexual. I want the definitions of terms
to come from me, not for her to sit and wonder. I watch COPS with the kids
and we talk about hte peoples choices on the show. (I love Cops!!!!)
<<This is JMHO and it works for me and mine - I do not allow unlmited tv for
the same reason I wouldn't drop a child at a strip bar. Not only are some
of the shows nasty but some commercials are also, I'm not sure which are
worse! Don't get me wrong, we watch some tv but there is a limit to how
much and what is watched. >>
I believe that TV broadens horizons and I trust that my kids will watch teh
shows that they are ready for. Emily doesn't watch alot of videos on MTV
which I agree can be "nasty" (I take it you mean sexually explicit?) but she
doesn't need to. Nickelodeon does TONS of videos that are aimed at the
Tweens adn teens. Emily tends to not watch the news, she'll peek in here and
there but I think it gets a little intense (especially now) so she tunes it
out. Kids will not watch something that makes them uncomfortable unless
forced to. Would you? You probably would change the channel. I trust my
children to do the same.
<<Playing, reading, writing or staring at the wall
is preferable.>>
****Why? What if that's not what they want to do at the moment? If your
child painted all day to the exclusion of all else, would this be bad? What
if that is their "thing"?
<<If I have to do away with all rules to be a "real" unschooler well, so be
it,>>
I have rules,
No doing drugs and drinking under age of majority, I am not going to jail
for you.
No stealing
No lying
more stuff like that. When I say Rules, I mean teh typical rules of the
house stuff like, It's Johhny's job to do the dishes every night and if he
doesn't there is a punishnment. If I ask for help with something (asking
not requiring) and I don't get the help, it will take me longer to get it
done and we may miss out on going somewhere fun. I do remind them of that,
"We have to be at Debra's house at noon, could someone empty the dishwasher
becasue I won't have enough time before we need to leave" They can say no,
but if we don't get there until 12:30 and the mini-van caravan has already
left for the field trip, we're out of luck. That's a natural consequence.
(Here's an aside: I was at the park the otehr day and there was a big school
group. the teacher said to a boy who was baout 5 feet out of line, Johnny,
get back in line. If you can't stay in line, you won't come to the park next
time. That's a natural consequence." My thought: NO!, that's a punishment. A
natural consequence would be Johnny seperates from the group, gets lost and
is scared and alone.)
<<it's just a label and I'm not big on labels anyway :-D
I don't use the label "unschooler" anyway unless I'm around other
homeschoolers so they know what "style" of homeschooling we do. >>
I don't homeschool. i don't school. I didn't pick the label unschooler, it
was given to me as a way of explaining what I and many others do.
<<The general
public doesn't really have a clue what it means, and some homeschoolers
don't either.>>
That's why I use it to anyone I meet.(except my Aunt who is a second grade
teacher, she will never understand and I don't choose to get into it with
her.) . I want people to understand it, I want it to become the norm. or at
the very least a well known and respected option in education. If I don't
use it and don't continually explain it, how will that happen?
<< The label I normally use is "home educator", which everyone
seems to understand, I am at home educating the next generation with my
words and actions. I dislike using "homeschool" because we do not "school
at home" but that's just my idiosyncrasy. I don't judge others who use that
label, knowing it's just a general label that lumps us all together - the
school at homers, the unschoolers and everyone in between.
It's our actions that show who we are, not our labels, wouldn't you agree?>>
Absolutely!!
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
[email protected]
I think that I am trying to get away from words such as require, rules, must
do, need to know. Maybe there are others here attempting the same. I know
that my perception of life has changed dramatically in the past few years,
my view of children has changed and I try to use words that reflect my trust
in their ability to make correct decisions, and I don't think those words
reflect trust.
Helen,
When you say, "There are all kinds of things we require our children to do"
What do you mean?
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
do, need to know. Maybe there are others here attempting the same. I know
that my perception of life has changed dramatically in the past few years,
my view of children has changed and I try to use words that reflect my trust
in their ability to make correct decisions, and I don't think those words
reflect trust.
Helen,
When you say, "There are all kinds of things we require our children to do"
What do you mean?
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
[email protected]
To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have rules is simply
I know. Please reread my statement, I didn't say that.
<<She said that to imply that
all unschoolers must live totally unruled lives is ludacrous.>>
I never said that. I said IN MY OPINION rules don't go along with
unschooling.
I think we are all adult enough to know that people here are expressing
opinions. I don't think we need to preface each post or statement with
"IMHO" or something similar. This list is a discussion of opinions, isn't
it?
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
> ludicrous.>><<She did NOT say that you were ludacrous.>>
> ****My beliefs are NOT ludicrous. That was mean.
I know. Please reread my statement, I didn't say that.
<<She said that to imply that
all unschoolers must live totally unruled lives is ludacrous.>>
I never said that. I said IN MY OPINION rules don't go along with
unschooling.
I think we are all adult enough to know that people here are expressing
opinions. I don't think we need to preface each post or statement with
"IMHO" or something similar. This list is a discussion of opinions, isn't
it?
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
vivrh
Thank you Karin for your explanation of how your family unschools.
I guess for us, unschooling has meant freedom. We choose, the kids and I, how much we want to study a topic we are interested in and we have the freedom to just live our lives if that is what feels good that day or week or month. The main thing is either way we are learning. I was PS schooled and so I fall back to that occasionally. I am learning another way. But it is slow going and Unschooling has been such a joy to us. I love it. I cannot see us doing it any other way unless the kids want something different later on.
God bless
Vivian
Mom to three Happy little Monkeys
Austin 10/31/93 Sarah 8/28/95 Emmalee 8/15/00
And loving wife to Randy
**If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-Anatole France***
I guess for us, unschooling has meant freedom. We choose, the kids and I, how much we want to study a topic we are interested in and we have the freedom to just live our lives if that is what feels good that day or week or month. The main thing is either way we are learning. I was PS schooled and so I fall back to that occasionally. I am learning another way. But it is slow going and Unschooling has been such a joy to us. I love it. I cannot see us doing it any other way unless the kids want something different later on.
God bless
Vivian
Mom to three Happy little Monkeys
Austin 10/31/93 Sarah 8/28/95 Emmalee 8/15/00
And loving wife to Randy
**If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-Anatole France***
----- Original Message -----
From: Karin
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Unschooling or not?
I too do not like labels of "real" unschooling or not. To me what matters most is having a desired pleasant, respectful, loving relationship with my kids. I do whatever I have to do to attain that desired relationship. I find that whenever I assert my "control" over my kids, I damage that relationship. I try (KEY word!) to treat my kids as I would an adult. I always try and think in those terms.
This applies to every issue that comes up in our everyday lives. From bathing, to watching TV or playing on the computer, to eating food, cleaning, chores, personal hygiene, etc.
Examples:
bathing - they do not have a set bathing schedule. They take showers or baths when they feel like it. If they are particularly dirty, I will suggest that they do shower. I tell them how it's nice to look clean for others, it's important to stay clean for health reasons, and they do admit to feeling better after they take a shower and I remind them how nice that feeling is. I help them learn why it's important to bath regularly. This also applies to teeth-brushing, which they also know there is a consequence of getting cavities and also bad breath if they don't stay on top of cleaning their teeth.
TV - They watch a moderate amount of tv most days. Yes, I'll admit, it's usually when I'm on the computer. <g> But, I don't tell my husband when or when not to watch tv. I certainly would be offended if anyone dictated my tv viewing. I want my kids to learn how to handle tv viewing on their own terms. They enjoy certain shows. They usually watch Nick the most. They DON'T watch all day. It just gets too boring after a while. Then we do other things like read books, go shopping or to the library or think of some other outings. My boys love playing legos, and chess and other games. Sometimes we will get out paints or do some other crafty project. We also enjoy doing outside projects, like right now we are attempting to landscape our backyard with bricks borders and walkways and also eventually put grass in. We also enjoy gardening.
Computer - The first thing my boys do when they get up in the morning is play their gameboys. They play the various Pokemon games for gameboys and are very challenged by these games. These games are very detailed and complex and I can see a lot of learning go on just by watching them. They enjoy battling each other by hooking their gameboys together. They also each have their own PC's in their room with a variety of games they like to play. Age of Empires, LegoRacers, Roller Coaster Tycoon and Flight Simulator are some of their favorites. Again, they play these for a while but certainly not all day.
I could go on and on about the various things that we do in our house. But the overall factor is that I have severely stopped the absolute "you will do this because I said so" control that I used to assert over my kids. This is the main difference of "before" and "after" we started unschooling. I have to say that once I let go of MY CONTROL over these issues, they have gradually balanced themselves. And I am so proud of the way that I see this balance happening.
I would never presume to say that *I* am unschooling the RIGHT way and someone else is doing it the WRONG way. All I can say is what I know has worked for our family. While I was homeschooling my kids for the previous 5 years, we were just so miserable. I was constantly in fights and battles of will with my kids. There was crying and frustration and a general ME against THEM atmosphere. Well, since unschooling, it's not that way anymore. Now, its just US all together, enjoying learning and experiencing life and all it has to offer. And I'm so thankful that I stumbled across unschooling.com and the message I got there was to let go of the control aspect of parenting and replace it with respect, and that is what I have done, and THEY WERE RIGHT! It has worked and I am seeing improved family life as time goes by.
I'm not good at debating with others or proving my point, or writing my thoughts in an eloquent way. But I'm trying my best to convey my profound happiness in unschooling, and they way that I define unschooling for US. And I love being here and reading all your various thoughts and opinions about unschooling. :o)
Best wishes,
Karin
mom to Ben (10) and Jonathan (9)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kolleen
This discussion was brought up at another list recently (again). I don't
know where the definition changed from the original coiner of the term,
or why. But I do know that there is no clear cut definition that
determines one to be an unschooler or not. And if someone wants to hone a
description based on their beleifs, they should coin a new term and stop
picking on the ones that follow the loose description of the orignial
work.
Personally, I'm a radical unschooler and to most, I am an unparent (I
only butt in when it comes to health or safety issues).
BUT there are parents here that get lambasted for not adhering to a
certain policy on unschoolling, when in fact, there isn't one.
regards,
kolleen
http://www.homeschool.com/advisors/sheffer/default.asp#faq
Q: What is unschooling?
A: When the writer John Holt first used the word unschooling over twenty
years ago, he was simply using it as a synonym for what we now call
homeschooling -- that is, children learning at home rather than in
school. Back in those early days, there was no one word to describe the
phenomenon of children learning at home, and people spoke about it with a
variety of words and phrases.
Over time, the word unschooling has come to be associated with the
approach to homeschooling that John Holt wrote about: homeschooling
without following a packaged curriculum, homeschooling that follows the
child's interests, homeschooling with an emphasis on real-life activities
rather than worksheets, homeschooling in a way that doesn't make rigid
distinctions between schoolwork and the rest of life.
At Growing Without Schooling magazine, we don't see unschooling as a
rigidly defined concept or approach. It's certainly not something you
have to think of as a package. Our advice to anyone reading these
questions is that you don't have to think in terms of "being unschoolers"
or "doing unschooling." If any of the approaches described here appeal to
you, then by all means take the time to find out more, and adapt what you
read about so that it fits your family.
"People take different roads seeking
fulfillment and happiness. Just
because they're not on your road
doesn't mean they've gotten lost."
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
know where the definition changed from the original coiner of the term,
or why. But I do know that there is no clear cut definition that
determines one to be an unschooler or not. And if someone wants to hone a
description based on their beleifs, they should coin a new term and stop
picking on the ones that follow the loose description of the orignial
work.
Personally, I'm a radical unschooler and to most, I am an unparent (I
only butt in when it comes to health or safety issues).
BUT there are parents here that get lambasted for not adhering to a
certain policy on unschoolling, when in fact, there isn't one.
regards,
kolleen
http://www.homeschool.com/advisors/sheffer/default.asp#faq
Q: What is unschooling?
A: When the writer John Holt first used the word unschooling over twenty
years ago, he was simply using it as a synonym for what we now call
homeschooling -- that is, children learning at home rather than in
school. Back in those early days, there was no one word to describe the
phenomenon of children learning at home, and people spoke about it with a
variety of words and phrases.
Over time, the word unschooling has come to be associated with the
approach to homeschooling that John Holt wrote about: homeschooling
without following a packaged curriculum, homeschooling that follows the
child's interests, homeschooling with an emphasis on real-life activities
rather than worksheets, homeschooling in a way that doesn't make rigid
distinctions between schoolwork and the rest of life.
At Growing Without Schooling magazine, we don't see unschooling as a
rigidly defined concept or approach. It's certainly not something you
have to think of as a package. Our advice to anyone reading these
questions is that you don't have to think in terms of "being unschoolers"
or "doing unschooling." If any of the approaches described here appeal to
you, then by all means take the time to find out more, and adapt what you
read about so that it fits your family.
"People take different roads seeking
fulfillment and happiness. Just
because they're not on your road
doesn't mean they've gotten lost."
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
[email protected]
Karin said:
I could go on and on about the various things that we do in our house. But
the overall factor is that I have severely stopped the absolute "you will do
this because I said so" control that I used to assert over my kids. This is
the main difference of "before" and "after" we started unschooling. I have
to say that once I let go of MY CONTROL over these issues, they have
gradually balanced themselves. And I am so proud of the way that I see this
balance happening>>
****I think this is what has made our lives balance so well also. That is
why I like to say, this is what works. Try it, and it may work for you. Try
it and it may I say. LOL
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
I could go on and on about the various things that we do in our house. But
the overall factor is that I have severely stopped the absolute "you will do
this because I said so" control that I used to assert over my kids. This is
the main difference of "before" and "after" we started unschooling. I have
to say that once I let go of MY CONTROL over these issues, they have
gradually balanced themselves. And I am so proud of the way that I see this
balance happening>>
****I think this is what has made our lives balance so well also. That is
why I like to say, this is what works. Try it, and it may work for you. Try
it and it may I say. LOL
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
[email protected]
Kolleen said:
And if someone wants to hone a
description based on their beleifs, they should coin a new term and stop
picking on the ones that follow the loose description of the orignial
work.
The desc
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
And if someone wants to hone a
description based on their beleifs, they should coin a new term and stop
picking on the ones that follow the loose description of the orignial
work.
The desc
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
Karin
I too do not like labels of "real" unschooling or not. To me what matters most is having a desired pleasant, respectful, loving relationship with my kids. I do whatever I have to do to attain that desired relationship. I find that whenever I assert my "control" over my kids, I damage that relationship. I try (KEY word!) to treat my kids as I would an adult. I always try and think in those terms.
This applies to every issue that comes up in our everyday lives. From bathing, to watching TV or playing on the computer, to eating food, cleaning, chores, personal hygiene, etc.
Examples:
bathing - they do not have a set bathing schedule. They take showers or baths when they feel like it. If they are particularly dirty, I will suggest that they do shower. I tell them how it's nice to look clean for others, it's important to stay clean for health reasons, and they do admit to feeling better after they take a shower and I remind them how nice that feeling is. I help them learn why it's important to bath regularly. This also applies to teeth-brushing, which they also know there is a consequence of getting cavities and also bad breath if they don't stay on top of cleaning their teeth.
TV - They watch a moderate amount of tv most days. Yes, I'll admit, it's usually when I'm on the computer. <g> But, I don't tell my husband when or when not to watch tv. I certainly would be offended if anyone dictated my tv viewing. I want my kids to learn how to handle tv viewing on their own terms. They enjoy certain shows. They usually watch Nick the most. They DON'T watch all day. It just gets too boring after a while. Then we do other things like read books, go shopping or to the library or think of some other outings. My boys love playing legos, and chess and other games. Sometimes we will get out paints or do some other crafty project. We also enjoy doing outside projects, like right now we are attempting to landscape our backyard with bricks borders and walkways and also eventually put grass in. We also enjoy gardening.
Computer - The first thing my boys do when they get up in the morning is play their gameboys. They play the various Pokemon games for gameboys and are very challenged by these games. These games are very detailed and complex and I can see a lot of learning go on just by watching them. They enjoy battling each other by hooking their gameboys together. They also each have their own PC's in their room with a variety of games they like to play. Age of Empires, LegoRacers, Roller Coaster Tycoon and Flight Simulator are some of their favorites. Again, they play these for a while but certainly not all day.
I could go on and on about the various things that we do in our house. But the overall factor is that I have severely stopped the absolute "you will do this because I said so" control that I used to assert over my kids. This is the main difference of "before" and "after" we started unschooling. I have to say that once I let go of MY CONTROL over these issues, they have gradually balanced themselves. And I am so proud of the way that I see this balance happening.
I would never presume to say that *I* am unschooling the RIGHT way and someone else is doing it the WRONG way. All I can say is what I know has worked for our family. While I was homeschooling my kids for the previous 5 years, we were just so miserable. I was constantly in fights and battles of will with my kids. There was crying and frustration and a general ME against THEM atmosphere. Well, since unschooling, it's not that way anymore. Now, its just US all together, enjoying learning and experiencing life and all it has to offer. And I'm so thankful that I stumbled across unschooling.com and the message I got there was to let go of the control aspect of parenting and replace it with respect, and that is what I have done, and THEY WERE RIGHT! It has worked and I am seeing improved family life as time goes by.
I'm not good at debating with others or proving my point, or writing my thoughts in an eloquent way. But I'm trying my best to convey my profound happiness in unschooling, and they way that I define unschooling for US. And I love being here and reading all your various thoughts and opinions about unschooling. :o)
Best wishes,
Karin
mom to Ben (10) and Jonathan (9)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This applies to every issue that comes up in our everyday lives. From bathing, to watching TV or playing on the computer, to eating food, cleaning, chores, personal hygiene, etc.
Examples:
bathing - they do not have a set bathing schedule. They take showers or baths when they feel like it. If they are particularly dirty, I will suggest that they do shower. I tell them how it's nice to look clean for others, it's important to stay clean for health reasons, and they do admit to feeling better after they take a shower and I remind them how nice that feeling is. I help them learn why it's important to bath regularly. This also applies to teeth-brushing, which they also know there is a consequence of getting cavities and also bad breath if they don't stay on top of cleaning their teeth.
TV - They watch a moderate amount of tv most days. Yes, I'll admit, it's usually when I'm on the computer. <g> But, I don't tell my husband when or when not to watch tv. I certainly would be offended if anyone dictated my tv viewing. I want my kids to learn how to handle tv viewing on their own terms. They enjoy certain shows. They usually watch Nick the most. They DON'T watch all day. It just gets too boring after a while. Then we do other things like read books, go shopping or to the library or think of some other outings. My boys love playing legos, and chess and other games. Sometimes we will get out paints or do some other crafty project. We also enjoy doing outside projects, like right now we are attempting to landscape our backyard with bricks borders and walkways and also eventually put grass in. We also enjoy gardening.
Computer - The first thing my boys do when they get up in the morning is play their gameboys. They play the various Pokemon games for gameboys and are very challenged by these games. These games are very detailed and complex and I can see a lot of learning go on just by watching them. They enjoy battling each other by hooking their gameboys together. They also each have their own PC's in their room with a variety of games they like to play. Age of Empires, LegoRacers, Roller Coaster Tycoon and Flight Simulator are some of their favorites. Again, they play these for a while but certainly not all day.
I could go on and on about the various things that we do in our house. But the overall factor is that I have severely stopped the absolute "you will do this because I said so" control that I used to assert over my kids. This is the main difference of "before" and "after" we started unschooling. I have to say that once I let go of MY CONTROL over these issues, they have gradually balanced themselves. And I am so proud of the way that I see this balance happening.
I would never presume to say that *I* am unschooling the RIGHT way and someone else is doing it the WRONG way. All I can say is what I know has worked for our family. While I was homeschooling my kids for the previous 5 years, we were just so miserable. I was constantly in fights and battles of will with my kids. There was crying and frustration and a general ME against THEM atmosphere. Well, since unschooling, it's not that way anymore. Now, its just US all together, enjoying learning and experiencing life and all it has to offer. And I'm so thankful that I stumbled across unschooling.com and the message I got there was to let go of the control aspect of parenting and replace it with respect, and that is what I have done, and THEY WERE RIGHT! It has worked and I am seeing improved family life as time goes by.
I'm not good at debating with others or proving my point, or writing my thoughts in an eloquent way. But I'm trying my best to convey my profound happiness in unschooling, and they way that I define unschooling for US. And I love being here and reading all your various thoughts and opinions about unschooling. :o)
Best wishes,
Karin
mom to Ben (10) and Jonathan (9)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<I don't
know where the definition changed from the original coiner of the term,
or why. But I do know that there is no clear cut definition that
determines one to be an unschooler or not.>>
I don't agree with this statement. An original definition does not always
apply as time goes on. I believe that an unschooler DOES NOT, require
school work, use a math curriculum in order to learn what is "needed", have
an idea of grade x means one learns about turtles in science, breaks down
life into subject matter when not required to for reporting purposes, or
believes that all children should learn how to read by x age. I believe that
those examples are clear cut. I think it is possible to define it to an
extent, and beyond that, debate is healthy and productive to learning.
<<And if someone wants to hone a
description based on their beleifs, they should coin a new term and stop
picking on the ones that follow the loose description of the orignial
work.>>
So I should stop questioning? I should stop learning?
I should stop stating my beliefs? I can't stop picking on others becasue I
am not picking on them.
A new term. Hmmm.There are many terms that are used for this. Child led
learning, Natural learning, Interest led, Delight driven etc. etc.etc.
Unschooling seems to be the word in common usage so that is what I use.
After all, I can't just decide to call a banana a gliglybop and have people
get an idea of what I'm referring to.
<<BUT there are parents here that get lambasted for not adhering to a
certain policy on unschoolling, when in fact, there isn't one.>>
Well, then why are we here? Aren't we here to talk about what unschooling
means to us? What we do all day, what our children do? Because my perception
of unschooling is narrower than another's idea of unschooling, I shouldn't
discuss or point out a way that is different because I may hurt someones
feelings? I don't believe everyone should think like I do, that would be a
very boring world with no differing opinions. Just consider what I have to
say, and treat me as if maybe, just maybe I could be talking with my heart
and offering a different viewpoint. Like I said before, give others the
benefit of the doubt.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
know where the definition changed from the original coiner of the term,
or why. But I do know that there is no clear cut definition that
determines one to be an unschooler or not.>>
I don't agree with this statement. An original definition does not always
apply as time goes on. I believe that an unschooler DOES NOT, require
school work, use a math curriculum in order to learn what is "needed", have
an idea of grade x means one learns about turtles in science, breaks down
life into subject matter when not required to for reporting purposes, or
believes that all children should learn how to read by x age. I believe that
those examples are clear cut. I think it is possible to define it to an
extent, and beyond that, debate is healthy and productive to learning.
<<And if someone wants to hone a
description based on their beleifs, they should coin a new term and stop
picking on the ones that follow the loose description of the orignial
work.>>
So I should stop questioning? I should stop learning?
I should stop stating my beliefs? I can't stop picking on others becasue I
am not picking on them.
A new term. Hmmm.There are many terms that are used for this. Child led
learning, Natural learning, Interest led, Delight driven etc. etc.etc.
Unschooling seems to be the word in common usage so that is what I use.
After all, I can't just decide to call a banana a gliglybop and have people
get an idea of what I'm referring to.
<<BUT there are parents here that get lambasted for not adhering to a
certain policy on unschoolling, when in fact, there isn't one.>>
Well, then why are we here? Aren't we here to talk about what unschooling
means to us? What we do all day, what our children do? Because my perception
of unschooling is narrower than another's idea of unschooling, I shouldn't
discuss or point out a way that is different because I may hurt someones
feelings? I don't believe everyone should think like I do, that would be a
very boring world with no differing opinions. Just consider what I have to
say, and treat me as if maybe, just maybe I could be talking with my heart
and offering a different viewpoint. Like I said before, give others the
benefit of the doubt.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
[email protected]
ROFLMAO!
You are really funny, Karin.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
You are really funny, Karin.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
Tia Leschke
>You're not good at it? I think you've just done a wonderful job of it.
>I'm not good at debating with others or proving my point, or writing my
>thoughts in an eloquent way. But I'm trying my best to convey my profound
>happiness in unschooling, and they way that I define unschooling for US.
>And I love being here and reading all your various thoughts and opinions
>about unschooling. :o)
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Kara Bauer
Maybe there are others here attempting the same. I know
that my perception of life has changed dramatically in the past few years,
my view of children has changed and I try to use words that reflect my trust
in their ability to make correct decisions, and I don't think those words
reflect trust.>>
Hi, I'm just jumping in here... I just read, never respond... After reading the last post you wrote, and then this one I had to! I'm Kara, with 2 boys :) Yes Elissa, we are one of them who is trying to unschool life as well (if that makes any sense)... basically *to me* if I can trust that my kids are smart/capable/etc enough to learn on their own, they are also smart/capable enough to go to bed when they are tired, eat when they are hungry, etc.
Anyway, there are others (or at least just me) out there,
KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that my perception of life has changed dramatically in the past few years,
my view of children has changed and I try to use words that reflect my trust
in their ability to make correct decisions, and I don't think those words
reflect trust.>>
Hi, I'm just jumping in here... I just read, never respond... After reading the last post you wrote, and then this one I had to! I'm Kara, with 2 boys :) Yes Elissa, we are one of them who is trying to unschool life as well (if that makes any sense)... basically *to me* if I can trust that my kids are smart/capable/etc enough to learn on their own, they are also smart/capable enough to go to bed when they are tired, eat when they are hungry, etc.
Anyway, there are others (or at least just me) out there,
KaraGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Linda Wooliever
right now it sounds like a lesson in symantics!
8-)
just trying to be funny, sorry...
--- ElissaJC@... wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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8-)
just trying to be funny, sorry...
--- ElissaJC@... wrote:
> To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have__________________________________________________
> rules is simply
> > ludicrous.>>
> > ****My beliefs are NOT ludicrous. That was mean.
>
>
> <<She did NOT say that you were ludacrous.>>
> I know. Please reread my statement, I didn't say
> that.
> <<She said that to imply that
> all unschoolers must live totally unruled lives is
> ludacrous.>>
> I never said that. I said IN MY OPINION rules don't
> go along with
> unschooling.
> I think we are all adult enough to know that people
> here are expressing
> opinions. I don't think we need to preface each post
> or statement with
> "IMHO" or something similar. This list is a
> discussion of opinions, isn't
> it?
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern
> methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of
> inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
Karin
ElissaJC@... wrote:
Karin said:
I could go on and on about the various things that we do in our house. But
the overall factor is that I have severely stopped the absolute "you will do
this because I said so" control that I used to assert over my kids. This is
the main difference of "before" and "after" we started unschooling. I have
to say that once I let go of MY CONTROL over these issues, they have
gradually balanced themselves. And I am so proud of the way that I see this
balance happening>>
****I think this is what has made our lives balance so well also. That is
why I like to say, this is what works. Try it, and it may work for you. Try
it and it may I say. LOL >>>>>>
Try it and it may work I say.
I say try it and it may.
This works for us it may for you.
Your family can be happy too!
Try it and it may.
You'll be happy every day.
(LOL! LOL! A little Dr. Seuss-type poem inspired by Elissa!)
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin said:
I could go on and on about the various things that we do in our house. But
the overall factor is that I have severely stopped the absolute "you will do
this because I said so" control that I used to assert over my kids. This is
the main difference of "before" and "after" we started unschooling. I have
to say that once I let go of MY CONTROL over these issues, they have
gradually balanced themselves. And I am so proud of the way that I see this
balance happening>>
****I think this is what has made our lives balance so well also. That is
why I like to say, this is what works. Try it, and it may work for you. Try
it and it may I say. LOL >>>>>>
Try it and it may work I say.
I say try it and it may.
This works for us it may for you.
Your family can be happy too!
Try it and it may.
You'll be happy every day.
(LOL! LOL! A little Dr. Seuss-type poem inspired by Elissa!)
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/12/2002 2:43:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
KaraBauer4@... writes:
<< Yes Elissa, we are one of them who is trying to unschool life as well (if
that makes any sense)... basically *to me* if I can trust that my kids are
smart/capable/etc enough to learn on their own, they are also smart/capable
enough to go to bed when they are tired, eat when they are hungry, etc. >>
Kara and Ellissa, you both remind me of one of my favorite Holt quotes:
"All I am saying in this book can be summed up in two words: Trust Children.
Nothing could be more simple, or more difficult. Difficult because to trust
children we must first learn to trust ourselves, and most of us were taught
as children that we could not be trusted."
-John Holt, in "How Children Learn"
... and, concerning the debates the topic of unschooling engenders:
Paradigms are difficult to perceive. They are also so deeply internalized
that many of their components remain out of awareness. This situation can be
put to use in discovering them: argumentation and ferment within disciplines
often occurs, so to speak, at the "fault line" between paradigms. Yet,
because a paradigm so deeply creates "reality," people feel challenged by its
discussion and often experience surprise, disbelief, resistance, or
defensiveness.
Claire Monod Cassidy, article; Unraveling the Ball of string: Reality,
Paradigms, and the study of alternative medicine. in Advances, vol 10, #1,
1994
Ahh, other people's words ... :)
Laura
KaraBauer4@... writes:
<< Yes Elissa, we are one of them who is trying to unschool life as well (if
that makes any sense)... basically *to me* if I can trust that my kids are
smart/capable/etc enough to learn on their own, they are also smart/capable
enough to go to bed when they are tired, eat when they are hungry, etc. >>
Kara and Ellissa, you both remind me of one of my favorite Holt quotes:
"All I am saying in this book can be summed up in two words: Trust Children.
Nothing could be more simple, or more difficult. Difficult because to trust
children we must first learn to trust ourselves, and most of us were taught
as children that we could not be trusted."
-John Holt, in "How Children Learn"
... and, concerning the debates the topic of unschooling engenders:
Paradigms are difficult to perceive. They are also so deeply internalized
that many of their components remain out of awareness. This situation can be
put to use in discovering them: argumentation and ferment within disciplines
often occurs, so to speak, at the "fault line" between paradigms. Yet,
because a paradigm so deeply creates "reality," people feel challenged by its
discussion and often experience surprise, disbelief, resistance, or
defensiveness.
Claire Monod Cassidy, article; Unraveling the Ball of string: Reality,
Paradigms, and the study of alternative medicine. in Advances, vol 10, #1,
1994
Ahh, other people's words ... :)
Laura
Buttons
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElissaJC@...>
>****My beliefs are NOT ludicrous. That was mean
Did I say "your beliefs" were ludicrous? No, and I was not being "mean" so
get your panties out of a twist LOL. I was referring to the blanket
statement (see copy below) made previously.
~"When you say "I require them to....do X" That is in my and many other
unschoolers opinions, not part of unschooling."~
That's a pretty broad statement and even one you admit to doing - you
"require" that your children not do drugs, drink, lie or steal. We all have
expectations or requirements or rules or whatever you want to call them!
Dialect varies, since we're from different states and even different
countries perhaps you could be a bit more understanding and give the
benefit of doubt to others?
> ****I was sharing what works for me.
And I also. Like I said before, if it works for you - great, your way would
not work for us. I'm just stating my opinions which happen to differ from
yours. I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are, but who is to determine
what is the "right" definition of unschooling? It means something different
to different people. There is no one way to homeschool, unschool - the
cookie cutter method is PSing, not HSing
> ***Have you tried it? Or are you assuming?
I know my family, you obviously do not LOL
:-) You see, I'm the one who has to spend time picking up and cleaning
when they do not pick/clean up after themselves. It's much more fun when
everyone pitches in because we not only work together but there's more time
to play together. I do no want to be a martyr mom spending her day cleaning
while the family entertains themselves with tv and such. I prefer we all do
our part so we all have time to pursue our interests.
> Do you really believe that if you didn't have rules, your pets would
starve
> to death? Isn't caring about another living being ENOUGH of an incentive?
> Isn't hunger enough of an incentive to buy groceries? Isn't knowledge of
> good nutrition and a desire to be healthy enough incentive? I feel sad
when
> people say that they would just do nothing without rules.
See, again, you do not know my family :-) I will try to address your
questions in order:
While I am a big animal lover no one else here is, some people are just not
animal lovers. They do not hate animals, just are very indifferent. So yes,
the animals literally would starve if I did not remind or do it myself.
Yes, caring is enough for me but no, it is not for the rest of the family.
Knowledge of good nutrition does not mean they will purchase/eat good
things, I've seen what my DH brings home when he shops LOL So yes, hunger
is incentive to shop but no, knowledge is not enough for them to purchase
food that is good for them.
Don't feel sad for us. We enjoy living life and the time we get to spend
together and alone. That's why we educate at home instead of PS :-)
> <<Playing, reading, writing or staring at the wall
> is preferable.>>
> ****Why? What if that's not what they want to do at the moment? If your
> child painted all day to the exclusion of all else, would this be bad?
What
> if that is their "thing"?
This quote was snipped a little short.
In answer to your "why?" do we prefer all those things over tv watching,
well I don't know, that is just our taste and lifestyle. Why do you have
the preferences you have? (rhetorical question). We're just not big tv
watchers so it was never used as a babysitter and it never became a habit
to be broken.
We are who we are. We (your family and mine) are different, that's life. I
suppose we're weird in your eyes because we prefer to do things (games,
play music, walk, talk etc), read something interesting or write to a
friend/relative (on paper or e-mail) rather than watching tv. Oh well
(shrug), to each his/her own. Like I said before - pretty much anything
else, even staring at the wall, is preferable to us over tv watching. I
don't know why you'd have a problem with our tv viewing, or lack thereof.
As for painting all day, why would that be bad? We do what we enjoy and if
that's painting all day, week or month then so be it.
I'm not sure by the way you phrased it if you're asking what if tv was the
"thing" or if it's painting that's the thing or what you're trying to get
across so I'll just assume that you're asking *what* the "thing" is here
LOL. At the moment the "thing" is an off brand "Sim City" type computer
game, that is better liked than Sim City (which I like more), and playing
the guitar.
> more stuff like that. When I say Rules, I mean teh typical rules of the
> house stuff like, It's Johhny's job to do the dishes every night and if
he
> doesn't there is a punishnment. If I ask for help with something (asking
> not requiring) and I don't get the help, it will take me longer to get it
> done and we may miss out on going somewhere fun. I do remind them of
that,
> "We have to be at Debra's house at noon, could someone empty the
dishwasher
> becasue I won't have enough time before we need to leave" They can say
no,
> but if we don't get there until 12:30 and the mini-van caravan has
already
> left for the field trip, we're out of luck. That's a natural consequence.
I agree and disagree with some points.
I agree with the "natural consequence" of if I have to do more work we
don't have the time for as much fun as we would have.
I disagree with putting others in the position of being put out because of
something going on in our family, such as your "dishes/Debra" story.
Since I'm an organized person at heart I don't wait until before an event
to get "have to" things done so it's not something that we've dealt with in
our family. But, due to other families who use this form of consequence
and/or punishment it has affected us to some extent. When they cancel it's
very frustrating and when it's repetitive it's downright discourteous. The
natural consequence is that people no longer make plans with them :-)
Seeing that you had so many questions I hope this makes my first post a bit
more clear for you Elissa. Now you know me and mine just a tiny bit better!
Buttons :-)
-----------
Lynda
I would think this would be, more or less, the "official" answer.
Lynda
=====
Q: What is unschooling?
A: When the writer John Holt first used the word unschooling over
twenty years ago, he was simply using it as a synonym for what we
now call homeschooling -- that is, children learning at home rather
than in school. Back in those early days, there was no one word to
describe the phenomenon of children learning at home, and people
spoke about it with a variety of words and phrases.
Over time, the word unschooling has come to be associated with the
approach to homeschooling that John Holt wrote about: homeschooling
without following a packaged curriculum, homeschooling that follows
the child's interests, homeschooling with an emphasis on real-life
activities rather than worksheets, homeschooling in a way that doesn't
make rigid distinctions between schoolwork and the rest of life.
At Growing Without Schooling magazine, we don't see unschooling as a
rigidly defined concept or approach. It's certainly not something you have
to think of as a package. Our advice to anyone reading these questions
is that you don't have to think in terms of "being unschoolers" or "doing
unschooling." If any of the approaches described here appeal to you,
then by all means take the time to find out more, and adapt what you
read about so that it fits your family.
Lynda
=====
Q: What is unschooling?
A: When the writer John Holt first used the word unschooling over
twenty years ago, he was simply using it as a synonym for what we
now call homeschooling -- that is, children learning at home rather
than in school. Back in those early days, there was no one word to
describe the phenomenon of children learning at home, and people
spoke about it with a variety of words and phrases.
Over time, the word unschooling has come to be associated with the
approach to homeschooling that John Holt wrote about: homeschooling
without following a packaged curriculum, homeschooling that follows
the child's interests, homeschooling with an emphasis on real-life
activities rather than worksheets, homeschooling in a way that doesn't
make rigid distinctions between schoolwork and the rest of life.
At Growing Without Schooling magazine, we don't see unschooling as a
rigidly defined concept or approach. It's certainly not something you have
to think of as a package. Our advice to anyone reading these questions
is that you don't have to think in terms of "being unschoolers" or "doing
unschooling." If any of the approaches described here appeal to you,
then by all means take the time to find out more, and adapt what you
read about so that it fits your family.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Buttons" <buttonsr@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Unschooling or not?
> We are unschoolers and in our home there is a lot that is "required".
> Regular bathing and changing of the undies (Eeew), feeding the animals,
> picking up after yourself, not eating too much junk, and so on and so on.
> To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have rules is simply
> ludicrous. We're all different and if that works for you that's great!
That
> would not work for us. If we didn't have rules at our home we'd be living
> in a filthy, piled up with junk to the ceiling home with no clean clothes
> or dishes, no healthy food, and dead animals. That's not much of an
> incentive for a change here, eh?
>
> I wonder about the unlimited tv viewing though, is it hours and hours
daily
> because that's how your post came across to me. Are you watching it with
> them and talking about what they're seeing?
> This is JMHO and it works for me and mine - I do not allow unlmited tv for
> the same reason I wouldn't drop a child at a strip bar. Not only are some
> of the shows nasty but some commercials are also, I'm not sure which are
> worse! Don't get me wrong, we watch some tv but there is a limit to how
> much and what is watched. Playing, reading, writing or staring at the wall
> is preferable.
>
> If I have to do away with all rules to be a "real" unschooler well, so be
> it, it's just a label and I'm not big on labels anyway :-D
> I don't use the label "unschooler" anyway unless I'm around other
> homeschoolers so they know what "style" of homeschooling we do. The
general
> public doesn't really have a clue what it means, and some homeschoolers
> don't either. The label I normally use is "home educator", which everyone
> seems to understand, I am at home educating the next generation with my
> words and actions. I dislike using "homeschool" because we do not "school
> at home" but that's just my idiosyncrasy. I don't judge others who use
that
> label, knowing it's just a general label that lumps us all together - the
> school at homers, the unschoolers and everyone in between.
> It's our actions that show who we are, not our labels, wouldn't you agree?
>
> Buttons
> --------
>
> > At 1:54 AM +0000 3/12/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> > > It's important to remember that I don't know WHAT you do, I can only
> > >respond to what you wrote.. When you say "I require them to....do X"
> That is
> > >in my and many other unschoolers opinions, not part of unschooling.
> >
> > Interesting, but put me in the camp that says "requiring them to do
> > whatever" could very well be unschooling just as much as anything
> > else. We're about as rabidly unschoolish as you can get, but there
> > are all kinds of things we require our kids to do. None of them
> > relate to education in the traditional sense of the word, but when
> > one doesn't separate learning from life, as we don't, where does one
> > draw the line?
> >
> > Just a little food for thought, since this list's been so quiet. <g>
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Karin
>I'm not good at debating with others or proving my point, or writing myYou're not good at it? I think you've just done a wonderful job of it.
>thoughts in an eloquent way. But I'm trying my best to convey my profound
>happiness in unschooling, and they way that I define unschooling for US.
>And I love being here and reading all your various thoughts and opinions
>about unschooling. :o)
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island >>>>>>
Well, garsh, thanks! :-)
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Then exactly what did you mean because it wasn't just Bridget that seems to
have misunderstood what you wrote. I thought maybe it was me, so I asked
hubby and some other folks and everyone read it as you telling the poster
that she was mean. How else could it have been meant. Seems clear, "your"
beliefs are not ludicrous, therefore you are saying that her statement was
about your beliefs, therefore it was mean.
Lynda
have misunderstood what you wrote. I thought maybe it was me, so I asked
hubby and some other folks and everyone read it as you telling the poster
that she was mean. How else could it have been meant. Seems clear, "your"
beliefs are not ludicrous, therefore you are saying that her statement was
about your beliefs, therefore it was mean.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElissaJC@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Unschooling or not?
> To say to be a "true" unschooler you can not have rules is simply
> > ludicrous.>>
> > ****My beliefs are NOT ludicrous. That was mean.
>
>
> <<She did NOT say that you were ludacrous.>>
> I know. Please reread my statement, I didn't say that.
> <<She said that to imply that
> all unschoolers must live totally unruled lives is ludacrous.>>
> I never said that. I said IN MY OPINION rules don't go along with
> unschooling.
> I think we are all adult enough to know that people here are expressing
> opinions. I don't think we need to preface each post or statement with
> "IMHO" or something similar. This list is a discussion of opinions, isn't
> it?
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
>I'm not trying to pick on you here, but I'm wondering why the rest of the
>While I am a big animal lover no one else here is, some people are just not
>animal lovers. They do not hate animals, just are very indifferent. So yes,
>the animals literally would starve if I did not remind or do it myself.
>Yes, caring is enough for me but no, it is not for the rest of the family.
family is expected to look after the animals when it's you who wants
them. In our family, I'm the one who wanted the dog, so I'm the one who
looks after him. For several years, my son enjoyed entering chickens and
eggs in the Fall Fair, so he was (relatively) happy to look after
them. When that interest grew old for him, I didn't mind taking over. (We
would have had them anyway.) I do ask him to do one small job every day,
and I often ask him to help me out with other stuff. Considering that he's
14 <g> he's pretty good about it.
>This quote was snipped a little short.This is another one that I wondered about. I don't remember the original
>In answer to your "why?" do we prefer all those things over tv watching,
>well I don't know, that is just our taste and lifestyle. Why do you have
>the preferences you have? (rhetorical question). We're just not big tv
>watchers so it was never used as a babysitter and it never became a habit
>to be broken.
post, so I don't know whether you said you limited TV for your kids or
not. But if you do, then who is it that prefers other things to TV
watching, you and dh or all of you?
This TV thing keeps coming up, and I think it's important. I've always
been a TV hater. I'd live really happily without it. We didn't have cable
for years, and dh and son went next door to the in-laws to watch. I
thought it was great not having to listen to it. So I really understand
where you're coming from if you don't like TV much.
I had tried to limit TV for my son, but the availability of TV next door,
with grandparents who weren't willing to enforce any rules about it, made
that impossible. (And dh wasn't any help. He likes watching so much, he
moved his office over there, so he could watch while he did his
paperwork.) I finally realized that not having to listen to the TV wasn't
worth having no real family life, so we recently got a TV and cable. All
that just to say I'm not a TV fan.
But discussions on this list got me thinking about the whole TV issue, and
I had already come to the point where I felt that my son was obviously
getting something from TV. I even started to realize how much he learns
from the TV, and he doesn't watch much stuff that's overtly
educational. He's not a book-learner and probably never will be. The TV
certainly isn't taking him away from books. And it's not taking him away
from physical activity. He's always majored in P.E. <g> He uses the
computer a lot, spends time with friends and family, builds things, works
for his dad sometimes, and generally lives a pretty well-balanced life
without the TV limits I would have liked to impose on him.
I also understand that there are some kids (I'd guess very few) who really
can't tear themselves away from the tube, no matter what. (My
granddaughter *might* even be one of them. I'm not yet convinced.) I can
agree that these kids probably need help with it. But I hate to see that
as the first suggestion people get when they are concerned about the TV
issue.
It's kind of like a new mother having breastfeeding problems and being told
first off that some women just aren't able to nurse their babies. Now I
know it happens, but it's very rare if women are given correct advice about
breastfeeding. I think it helps that new mother a lot more to help her go
through all the possibilities as to what's causing the problem before even
putting the idea into her mind that she might not be successful. The same
with the TV issue. I'd love to see the people who are concerned about
their kids' TV watching given all the kinds of suggestions I've seen here
from time to time for helping their kids stay balanced, before they get
told that some kids just have to have it regulated. Of course if the
parent has already tried all those things, she might be really relieved to
know that her kid might be one of those who requires help in limiting TV,
but it doesn't make sense to me to start there.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Lynda
You talk in absolutes and then ask that folks not judge you. You don't
offer suggestions about how you do it. Frequently you "tell" others they
aren't doing it right or they can't be unschooling because they aren't doing
it "your" way or the "right" way.
And your "I should stop questions, I should stop learning" is non-responsive
to the statement about definitions. Questioning and learning have nothing
to do with demanding that everyone accept the definition as currently set
down by certain parties as being THE definition of "real" unschooling.
Lynda
offer suggestions about how you do it. Frequently you "tell" others they
aren't doing it right or they can't be unschooling because they aren't doing
it "your" way or the "right" way.
And your "I should stop questions, I should stop learning" is non-responsive
to the statement about definitions. Questioning and learning have nothing
to do with demanding that everyone accept the definition as currently set
down by certain parties as being THE definition of "real" unschooling.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElissaJC@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Unschooling or not?
> <<I don't
> know where the definition changed from the original coiner of the term,
> or why. But I do know that there is no clear cut definition that
> determines one to be an unschooler or not.>>
> I don't agree with this statement. An original definition does not always
> apply as time goes on. I believe that an unschooler DOES NOT, require
> school work, use a math curriculum in order to learn what is "needed",
have
> an idea of grade x means one learns about turtles in science, breaks down
> life into subject matter when not required to for reporting purposes, or
> believes that all children should learn how to read by x age. I believe
that
> those examples are clear cut. I think it is possible to define it to an
> extent, and beyond that, debate is healthy and productive to learning.
> <<And if someone wants to hone a
> description based on their beleifs, they should coin a new term and stop
> picking on the ones that follow the loose description of the orignial
> work.>>
> So I should stop questioning? I should stop learning?
> I should stop stating my beliefs? I can't stop picking on others becasue I
> am not picking on them.
> A new term. Hmmm.There are many terms that are used for this. Child led
> learning, Natural learning, Interest led, Delight driven etc. etc.etc.
> Unschooling seems to be the word in common usage so that is what I use.
> After all, I can't just decide to call a banana a gliglybop and have
people
> get an idea of what I'm referring to.
> <<BUT there are parents here that get lambasted for not adhering to a
> certain policy on unschoolling, when in fact, there isn't one.>>
> Well, then why are we here? Aren't we here to talk about what unschooling
> means to us? What we do all day, what our children do? Because my
perception
> of unschooling is narrower than another's idea of unschooling, I shouldn't
> discuss or point out a way that is different because I may hurt someones
> feelings? I don't believe everyone should think like I do, that would be a
> very boring world with no differing opinions. Just consider what I have to
> say, and treat me as if maybe, just maybe I could be talking with my heart
> and offering a different viewpoint. Like I said before, give others the
> benefit of the doubt.
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Buttons
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> I'm not trying to pick on you here, but I'm wondering why the rest of the
> family is expected to look after the animals when it's you who wants
> them. (snipped)
No one said *I* wanted them (other than *my* dog which I've had for 14yrs
whom *I* feed and water). That was the deal when we got them, "They are not
mine and I will not be responsible for them, are you SURE about this?" "Oh,
yes!"
:-) I understand you don't know the whole situation and are just going on
assumptions. I don't feel picked on, you had a somewhat valid question. I
am curious though why, if you were unsure, you didn't ask who's animals
they were instead of assuming they were mine - an animal lover who gladly
looks after her own pet?
> This is another one that I wondered about. I don't remember the original
> post, so I don't know whether you said you limited TV for your kids or
> not. But if you do, then who is it that prefers other things to TV
> watching, you and dh or all of you?
Like I've said before - tv is not a big part of our lives so tv viewing is
very limited. We do have certain shows we like to watch but if there's
something better to do, and there usually is, we miss them.
I respond to a message on the list about parents who require things of
their children are not real unschoolers and it turns into the great debate
over tv. So why should our family be watching more tv, are you undercover
network executives trying to drum up viewers? LOL Is business really that
bad? (chuckle)
> This TV thing keeps coming up, and I think it's important. I've always
> been a TV hater. I'd live really happily without it. We didn't have
cable
> for years, and dh and son went next door to the in-laws to watch. I
> thought it was great not having to listen to it. So I really understand
> where you're coming from if you don't like TV much.
Just because tv isn't high on our list of priorities doesn't mean we hate
tv. If I hated it I wouldn't have it in my home. As for cable, the only
time I had it was for about 6 months when I had a roommate who ordered it.
Recently we had DirecTV from Sept '01 to Jan '02 so DH could get NFL Sunday
ticket. Everyone said "oh, wait til Jan you won't be able to get rid of
it", were they ever wrong! LOL Five channels are more than enough for us!
> I had tried to limit TV for my son, but the availability of TV next door,
> with grandparents who weren't willing to enforce any rules about it, made
> that impossible. (And dh wasn't any help. He likes watching so much, he
> moved his office over there, so he could watch while he did his
> paperwork.) I finally realized that not having to listen to the TV
wasn't
> worth having no real family life, so we recently got a TV and cable. All
> that just to say I'm not a TV fan.
>
> But discussions on this list got me thinking about the whole TV issue,
and
> I had already come to the point where I felt that my son was obviously
> getting something from TV. I even started to realize how much he learns
> from the TV, and he doesn't watch much stuff that's overtly
> educational. He's not a book-learner and probably never will be. The TV
> certainly isn't taking him away from books. And it's not taking him away
> from physical activity. He's always majored in P.E. <g> He uses the
> computer a lot, spends time with friends and family, builds things, works
> for his dad sometimes, and generally lives a pretty well-balanced life
> without the TV limits I would have liked to impose on him.
>
> I also understand that there are some kids (I'd guess very few) who
really
> can't tear themselves away from the tube, no matter what. (My
> granddaughter *might* even be one of them. I'm not yet convinced.) I
can
> agree that these kids probably need help with it. But I hate to see that
> as the first suggestion people get when they are concerned about the TV
> issue.
>
> It's kind of like a new mother having breastfeeding problems and being
told
> first off that some women just aren't able to nurse their babies. Now I
> know it happens, but it's very rare if women are given correct advice
about
> breastfeeding. I think it helps that new mother a lot more to help her
go
> through all the possibilities as to what's causing the problem before
even
> putting the idea into her mind that she might not be successful. The
same
> with the TV issue. I'd love to see the people who are concerned about
> their kids' TV watching given all the kinds of suggestions I've seen here
> from time to time for helping their kids stay balanced, before they get
> told that some kids just have to have it regulated. Of course if the
> parent has already tried all those things, she might be really relieved
to
> know that her kid might be one of those who requires help in limiting TV,
> but it doesn't make sense to me to start there.
> Tia
Although not very good netiquette I left the last four paragraphs intact.
Is this directed at me? I'm the only one you quoted.
I don't have any suggestions for you, especially now that it is a habit. It
has never been a common thing for us so I'm totally no help, we've never
been in the same boat. Maybe someone else here can help you if you'd like
suggestions? I'm not all that clear you're even asking for suggestions. You
start by sounding like you're defending (to whom I'm not sure) your son's
tv watching, then switch to chastising someone who has given advice that
didn't work or you didn't like (unsure which), and then switch to wanting
suggestions. I'm very sorry, try as I might I am unable to understand
clearly what it is you want. Perhaps it's too early in the morning and I'm
just missing your point.
As for your family/inlaw situation, I can't help with that either, I don't
get in the middle of family differences. DH and I are very lucky, though it
was no accident, that we have basically the same views on parenting,
child-rearing, and home life. Life is much more calm in our household than
some we know. I wish everyone could have that.
One suggestion (not a mandate) for any future children you have: spend lots
of time with them playing games, taking walks, reading together snuggled up
and leave the tv off if you dislike it so much. If they never get used to
it then it doesn't become a habit but rather another piece of furniture
that is used occasionally.
FTR I have never said to anyone that children who watch tv need help with
tearing themselves away from it or even that parents must regulate tv.
I've never told anyone what their family should or should not do regarding
tv. I would never presume to tell anyone how to rear their children, and I
would expect the same respect back. I do like asking questions, I'm
naturally curious, and I do like to help whenever I can.
You said that tv viewing is not taking your son away from books but for us
it would because we are all avid readers. This is just one difference
between in our families goes to show that what works for one family doesn't
work for another.
Good luck on your unschooling quest!
Buttons
PS
Defending our choices as parents is not why I am on an "unschooling" list.
I do enough of that with everyone else, an unschooling group should be for
support and sharing ideas but that's JMHO.
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Tia Leschke <leschke@i...> wrote:
should be concerned. BUT - dont start by limiting TV by force. The
first step sould be distraction. Get lots of trucks and toys and
games and play with him, to distract him. If that is not enough, talk
to him about it. >
Bridget
>really
> I also understand that there are some kids (I'd guess very few) who
> can't tear themselves away from the tube, no matter what. (MyI can
> granddaughter *might* even be one of them. I'm not yet convinced.)
> agree that these kids probably need help with it. But I hate to seethat
> as the first suggestion people get when they are concerned about theTV
> issue.But Tia, that was NOT what I said. Here is part of the first post:
> Tia
>>> I have very strong (and unpopular here) opinions about the TVissue. I think if you see a change in behaviour for the worse you
should be concerned. BUT - dont start by limiting TV by force. The
first step sould be distraction. Get lots of trucks and toys and
games and play with him, to distract him. If that is not enough, talk
to him about it. >
Bridget
rumpleteasermom
Buttons,
You would have to spend about three hours reading the archives to
understand and it probably is not worth it. TV is a hot button here.
That coupled with the fact that occassionally, someone will misread
something because they have a preconceived notion of what a particular
poster thinks, causes this to flare occassionally.
Bridget
ps - Are you a button collector?
You would have to spend about three hours reading the archives to
understand and it probably is not worth it. TV is a hot button here.
That coupled with the fact that occassionally, someone will misread
something because they have a preconceived notion of what a particular
poster thinks, causes this to flare occassionally.
Bridget
ps - Are you a button collector?
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Buttons" <buttonsr@n...> wrote:
I'm not all that clear you're even asking for
suggestions. You
> start by sounding like you're defending (to whom I'm not sure) your
son's
> tv watching, then switch to chastising someone who has given advice
that
> didn't work or you didn't like (unsure which), and then switch to
wanting
> suggestions. I'm very sorry, try as I might I am unable to
understand
> clearly what it is you want. Perhaps it's too early in the morning
and I'm
> just missing your point.
> Buttons
>
Buttons
From: rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]
To: <[email protected]
> ps - Are you a button collector?No :-) Buttons is my name.
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Buttons" <buttonsr@n...> wrote:
I thought it might be a screen name chosen because you collect.
Bridget
> From: rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@j...>Really? like on your birth certificate and everything? Cool!!
> To: <Unschooling-dotcom@y...
>
> > ps - Are you a button collector?
>
> No :-) Buttons is my name.
I thought it might be a screen name chosen because you collect.
Bridget
Tia Leschke
>Sorry Bridget. I should have pointed out that you did that this time. I
>But Tia, that was NOT what I said. Here is part of the first post:
>
> >>> I have very strong (and unpopular here) opinions about the TV
>issue. I think if you see a change in behaviour for the worse you
>should be concerned. BUT - dont start by limiting TV by force. The
>first step sould be distraction. Get lots of trucks and toys and
>games and play with him, to distract him. If that is not enough, talk
>to him about it. >
was talking about the debate in general, but you're right, I should have
cited that post as what I consider the better way to approach it. Comes
from reading too many emails right in a row. (That's my excuse, and I'm
sticking to it.)
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island