Kolleen

Processing all the information about what is unschooling and what flavour
a list should hold and other such ideas that have come to pass I have
come to realize that its *sometimes* into a have and have-not situation.

When someone who has been unschooling for a long time says 'you're not an
unschooler because you use this or that control', its highly possible
their observation is correct.

Then, I stop and think about the ones that aren't so lucky. The ones that
don't have internal support, or even have internal 'abuse'. Should they
now not be able to unschool because they can't fit their life into all
the requirements?

I see some great posts from people and then I hear about their lifestyle
and realize why it might be easier for them to institute the actions in a
purely unschooling way.

But what about the ones that made some wrong choices in the past, and now
want to unschool. Shouldn't they be able to come here and say 'I'm
unschooling as most as I can' without being challanged as to there is no
such animal?

thoughts?


kolleen

joanna514

>
> I see some great posts from people and then I hear about their
lifestyle
> and realize why it might be easier for them to institute the
actions in a
> purely unschooling way.
>
> But what about the ones that made some wrong choices in the past,
and now
> want to unschool. Shouldn't they be able to come here and say 'I'm
> unschooling as most as I can' without being challanged as to there
is no
> such animal?
>
> thoughts?
>
>
> kolleen

I don't know kolleen. Good questions. We still have a couple of
issues we are working through at our house. Bedtime and chores being
consistently a challenge for me. That, to me, falls under the realm
of non coercive parenting.
Unschooling to me, is about the child controlling their own learning,
and the parent not deeming certain things more valuable, or less
worthy as a learning tool, or interests more or less worthy.
Bedtimes and chores are about controlling my own sanity! These
issues, for me, are about living in a house with 6 people and how we
all get along. It's not about my children choosing what they want
out of life.
I do have trouble with this one. Though, I know in my heart, a non
coercive approach in all parts of life, is the ideal, I'm not at this
point, capable of completely embracing it. I have made great strides
over the last 5 years. But, it's been a slow process.

And usually conversations like these help me get a little closer.

It took me a while to word this post. I kept challenging my own
thoughts, until it sounded mostly right.
Joanna

joanna514

>
> I see some great posts from people and then I hear about their
lifestyle
> and realize why it might be easier for them to institute the
actions in a
> purely unschooling way.
>
> But what about the ones that made some wrong choices in the past,
and now
> want to unschool. Shouldn't they be able to come here and say 'I'm
> unschooling as most as I can' without being challanged as to there
is no
> such animal?
>
> thoughts?
>
>
> kolleen

I don't know kolleen. Good questions. We still have a couple of
issues we are working through at our house. Bedtime and chores being
consistently a challenge for me. That, to me, falls under the realm
of non coercive parenting.
Unschooling to me, is about the child controlling their own learning,
and the parent not deeming certain things more valuable, or less
worthy as a learning tool, or interests more or less worthy.
Bedtimes and chores are about controlling my own sanity! These
issues, for me, are about living in a house with 6 people and how we
all get along. It's not about my children choosing what they want
out of life.
I do have trouble with this one. Though, I know in my heart, a non
coercive approach in all parts of life, is the ideal, I'm not at this
point, capable of completely embracing it. I have made great strides
over the last 5 years. But, it's been a slow process.

And usually conversations like these help me get a little closer.

It took me a while to word this post. I kept challenging my own
thoughts, until it sounded mostly right.
Joanna

Tia Leschke

>Then, I stop and think about the ones that aren't so lucky. The ones that
>don't have internal support, or even have internal 'abuse'. Should they
>now not be able to unschool because they can't fit their life into all
>the requirements?

Who would say that they can't unschool? Seems to me people have said
someone like that is not *yet* unschooling, or on the way toward
unschooling. Even if they're told they aren't unschooling, it doesn't mean
they never can. They're still doing a wonderful thing for their kids, and
there's always time to move in one direction or the other as they get their
bearings.

While I still don't believe that unschooling "doesn't work" for some kids,
I can easily see where it wouldn't work for some families. If the parents
are up tight about their kids getting "behind" and aren't able to overcome
that, or if they just can't stand the sight of their kids appearing to be
doing nothing, it isn't going to work. But it's the parents it isn't
working for, not the kids.


>I see some great posts from people and then I hear about their lifestyle
>and realize why it might be easier for them to institute the actions in a
>purely unschooling way.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.


>But what about the ones that made some wrong choices in the past, and now
>want to unschool. Shouldn't they be able to come here and say 'I'm
>unschooling as most as I can' without being challanged as to there is no
>such animal?

It's one thing to say, "I'm unschooling the best I can." I've been
there. That person knows that they haven't got it yet. It's something
else again to say, "I'm unschooling, even though I use a math program and
require some reading and writing every day." Those people get challenged,
and I think they should be. I don't have a problem with anyone wanting to
homeschool that way. I've even done it myself for a time. But I wasn't
unschooling when I did it that way, and neither are they.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Lynda

One of the problems with self-declared experts or those who must have
someone they can declare an expert is that inorder to keep the title, the
parameters of their expertise must be sharply defined.

In an area such as unschooling, quite frankly it is ridiculous to then apply
such a sharp and rigid definition without having a flexibility or gray area
to border it.

People don't come instantly to unschooling. It isn't something you buy in a
pouch that you tear open, pour in water and voila you have an unschooler.
MOST people come to it by degrees, some take baby steps and sometimes 2
steps forward and one step backward. Some never make the transition to 100%
unschooler. And some completely fall off the whole homeschooling wagon.

Personally I find all this paranoid protection of a term to be just a little
bit over the edge. If the term disappears tomorrow, who cares? If the term
gets "watered down," so what. It won't change what I am doing nor will it
stop me from doing it or change how I am doing "it." And it sure won't stop
me from encouraging others to, if nothing else, take that first step towards
freeing their children from the whole pigeon-holing mentality of the public
school system!

What I know for sure is that even getting part way there makes for a better
life for children! So keep those baby steps going!!!

Now here's my ponderings for the day--if this is all about child-led, why is
a name so important when 99.9% of the children this is suppose to be all
about couldn't give a dead rat's patooty what you call it or who toes the
line for the unschooling police?

Lynda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kolleen" <Kolleen@...>
To: "Unschooling.com" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 4:50 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] the haves, the havenots and unschooling by
definition


> Processing all the information about what is unschooling and what flavour
> a list should hold and other such ideas that have come to pass I have
> come to realize that its *sometimes* into a have and have-not situation.
>
> When someone who has been unschooling for a long time says 'you're not an
> unschooler because you use this or that control', its highly possible
> their observation is correct.
>
> Then, I stop and think about the ones that aren't so lucky. The ones that
> don't have internal support, or even have internal 'abuse'. Should they
> now not be able to unschool because they can't fit their life into all
> the requirements?
>
> I see some great posts from people and then I hear about their lifestyle
> and realize why it might be easier for them to institute the actions in a
> purely unschooling way.
>
> But what about the ones that made some wrong choices in the past, and now
> want to unschool. Shouldn't they be able to come here and say 'I'm
> unschooling as most as I can' without being challanged as to there is no
> such animal?
>
> thoughts?
>
>
> kolleen
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

joanna514

> Now here's my ponderings for the day--if this is all about child-
led, why is
> a name so important when 99.9% of the children this is suppose to
be all
> about couldn't give a dead rat's patooty what you call it or who
toes the
> line for the unschooling police?
>
> Lynda



How do you work towards something(taking baby steps, or leaping in
bounds), if there is no "ideal" you are working towards?
Some people here are obviously living a life very close to an ideal
that many can see vividly, and are trying to reach at whatever pace
is suiting their needs.
So that ideal has been given a name. I don't see a problem with that.
Obviously some do. Maybe those people are happy with where they are
and don't "see" an ideal.
I agree that those taking "baby steps" are doing MUCH better for
their children, than those locked into the ideas our society feeds us
about education. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep striving
to do better. And those who are doing better are a wonderful
resource.
I don't see anyone as an expert. I do see people who have a
brilliant philosophy, sharing their thoughts.
Joanna

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kolleen" <Kolleen@m...>
> To: "Unschooling.com" <Unschooling-dotcom@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 4:50 PM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] the haves, the havenots and
unschooling by
> definition
>
>
> > Processing all the information about what is unschooling and what
flavour
> > a list should hold and other such ideas that have come to pass I
have
> > come to realize that its *sometimes* into a have and have-not
situation.
> >
> > When someone who has been unschooling for a long time
says 'you're not an
> > unschooler because you use this or that control', its highly
possible
> > their observation is correct.
> >
> > Then, I stop and think about the ones that aren't so lucky. The
ones that
> > don't have internal support, or even have internal 'abuse'.
Should they
> > now not be able to unschool because they can't fit their life
into all
> > the requirements?
> >
> > I see some great posts from people and then I hear about their
lifestyle
> > and realize why it might be easier for them to institute the
actions in a
> > purely unschooling way.
> >
> > But what about the ones that made some wrong choices in the past,
and now
> > want to unschool. Shouldn't they be able to come here and say 'I'm
> > unschooling as most as I can' without being challanged as to
there is no
> > such animal?
> >
> > thoughts?
> >
> >
> > kolleen
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

Fetteroll

on 1/28/02 1:42 AM, Lynda at lurine@... wrote:

> If the term disappears tomorrow, who cares?

I care. And I can give you reasons why I care. The reasons aren't intended
to convince anyone that I'm right and someone else is wrong. The reasons are
an explanation of why I do what I do. Everyone has their own reasons for
doing what they do and feeling what they feel. I think we're each entitled
to act as we feel is best to achieve the goals *we* feel are important. One
of my goals is to help keep the definition of unschooling clear because it's
important *to me*. (Another is to help newbies who are in a quandry to see
the illusory barriers in their thinking set up by society that keeps them
from seeing the true nature of the problems they're facing.)

> If the term gets "watered down," so what.

*My* reasons for caring whether it gets watered down or not is that for
those *who do* want to let go entirely, there needs to be a clear goal to
reach.

Unless there are people -- and I don't mean everyone needs to do this -- but
people who do speak up and say "*This* is unschooling" and people who
believe with all their hearts that "*This* place has benefits that that
place doesn't have" and speak their minds on it, then many people who could
have gone farther had they only known will stop at their comfort level
believing there are no greater benefits.

It *seems* like just living unschooling and showing people unschooling will
let them understand unschooling without defining it. After all a child
unschools exactly like that. He follows the path that leads to *his* goal.
He isn't seeking out a path that leads to someone's definition of "Jimmy's
goal in life". He's setting his own goal and taking his own path.

But, though that may be the *method* of unschooling, the *philosophy* of
unschooling *isn't* whatever goal that a family decides suits their family
best. It *is* a very definite definible goal and helping people reach *that
particular* goal is different than helping them reach whatever goal they
feel comfortable with.

But just because I want to keep the definition of unschooling clear
*doesn't* mean I advocate jumping all over newbies who are unclear on the
concept and try to brow beat them into accepting my definition.

*How* somenoe handles statements they disagree with is an entirely separate
issue from *why* they do so. They may seem connected, but they *are*
separate.

Joyce


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