Kolleen

>Ren wrote:
>If this is a closed society, where differing opinions are not
>welcome, then it should be a private board, not public.

Differing opinions will always have a opposite side :-) In a list of 600
or so people, I'm sure there's going to be dissention and
misundestandings.

I appreciate the differences of opinions even if I am in total
disagreement with them.


>I find posts with differing opinions, well stated, food for thought.
>I enjoy thought provoking conversation. Unfortunately it seems that
>isn't welcome in some people's eyes.

Its not welcome in some people's eyes whether its f2f, on the net, or on
the phone. I suppose its better to just ignore the one's that always
object to an issue as opposed to stop discussing differences.


>Which is why this list continues to have problems.
>When a list is regularly "outing" people that don't say exactly what
>you want to hear, that is a problem.

All lists that have 'cutting edge' ideals will have issues. Thats why the
'spiritual parenting' list I spoke of didn't have issues. Everyone
complimented eachother, gave hugs, love and blessing and THAT list had NO
substance.


>I wish I could understand what is so offensive about someone
>questioning the words you use.

I don't either when its used for clarification. Since geography and even
'family' uses words that mean one thing and another person processes that
word to mean another.
Language.. why can't we all just do a Vulcan mind meld and get our
thoughts out without the damn words!!! *smile*

>I don't remember saying anything
>dirogatory to the person I questioned. If I attacked a strongly held
>belief then it should be easy enough to explain it and stand your
>ground, right?

I missed the whole incident since I was busy on another listserv the last
few weeks with another issue (the scientific findings of the real Planet
X - and you should see the fur fly!).So I went on a digest here. I don't
always get a chance to read them and deleted a lot of them.

But from what I've read here the differing opinions are not that
different. Just some bad communication. I'd like to go back into the
archives, but reading Yahoo online is a torture for me, even with a
high-speed connection.

(For those that are into Astrology, Mercury is in retrgrade since the
15th or so of January and that means that communications is at a all time
low, or an all time high for miscommunications) Personally, I know
nothing of Astrology and dont' hold a beleif about it either way - just
passing on some info from people that are into it.

>If not, then we could discuss it and seek further understanding.
>Either way, there shouldn't be this ugliness shown to any dissenters.

I'm in total agreement. There's nothing like a great debate to either
solidfy your own view or knock it off its axis enough for one to take a
look at oneself.

Kinda like thinking things through out loud.

regards,
kolleen

Kolleen

>If you're going to quote someone, you really should go back and look to
>see if you've got it right.
>Mimi


This is so true and yet so debatable.

If it were years ago, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. BUT, then as
time passed on and people quoted me 'off the top of their head' it gave
me insight to how they were perceiving what I said.

Now when I read their words I see how I came across to that person. And
I've learned about myself, my moods and how sometimes I remove myself
emotionally so much that I come across so 'ugly' to people. Kind of like
a person does when filling out a Will - you don't think of the emotional
part of the death, just the things that need to be done.

Amazing how we all perceive words in our own ways. Its amazing our
children grow up in spite of us. *smile*

regards,
kolleen

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kolleen <Kolleen@m...> wrote:

>
> Amazing how we all perceive words in our own ways. Its amazing our
> children grow up in spite of us. *smile*
>
> regards,
> kolleen

YEs, words do mean different things to dofferent people. And writing
styles can have a big effect. Someone was discussing this on a
different list I'm on recently. Consensus was that those who tend to
speak in the active voice often come across and negative,
opinionated, rude, etc. because of their writing style.

But I think what amazes me most is when even after you say, "no that
is not what I meant" people still insist on characterizing you as if
their misstatement of your thoughts is accurate.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when they tell me I
misunderstood them.

Bridget

gruvystarchild

---
I should have looked it up. I wasn't quoting exactly, that's why I
put the disclaimer. I did realize I may have been reading something
into it that wasn't there.
I think the combination of people saying "get lost if you don't like
our board" gave me a feeling of ownership that I didn't feel was
right.
I'm sorry I attributed that entire view to Bridget.

Just to recapitulate, so this won't get out of hand. I questioned the
idea that an unschool child could "get behind" and that we'd help
them if they did.
I was jumped all over for even questioning the persons views.
In an unschool world, the idea of "getting behind" is nonexistant.
The person said she was not comparing her children to ps children,
nor imposing some false schedule on them.
That was a bit helpful to understand.
But then who are they being compared to if they can "get behind".
I thought it was worthy of questioning.
I still think it is.
And I am dumbfounded that questioning that premise would cause all of
this backlash.
Ren



In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kolleen <Kolleen@m...> wrote:
> >If you're going to quote someone, you really should go back and
look to
> >see if you've got it right.
> >Mimi
>
>
> This is so true and yet so debatable.
>
> If it were years ago, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. BUT, then
as
> time passed on and people quoted me 'off the top of their head' it
gave
> me insight to how they were perceiving what I said.
>
> Now when I read their words I see how I came across to that person.
And
> I've learned about myself, my moods and how sometimes I remove
myself
> emotionally so much that I come across so 'ugly' to people. Kind of
like
> a person does when filling out a Will - you don't think of the
emotional
> part of the death, just the things that need to be done.
>
> Amazing how we all perceive words in our own ways. Its amazing our
> children grow up in spite of us. *smile*
>
> regards,
> kolleen

Groundhoggirl

On Saturday, January 26, 2002, at 01:10 PM, Kolleen wrote:

>> If you're going to quote someone, you really should go back and look to
>> see if you've got it right.
>> Mimi
>
> ============
> This is so true and yet so debatable.
>
> If it were years ago, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. BUT, then as
> time passed on and people quoted me 'off the top of their head' it gave
> me insight to how they were perceiving what I said.

===============
Yes I definitely agree with you here. Even if a person miss-quotes you,
you can still get a good idea of how you are perceived by that person.
And, you can learn from this. But, this is only half of the equation.
==============================

> Now when I read their words I see how I came across to that person. And
> I've learned about myself, my moods and how sometimes I remove myself
> emotionally so much that I come across so 'ugly' to people.
=======================

Don't you also have to take into account the reader's experiences and
prejudices, not to mention their moods, etc. as they are reading what
you have written? There is no way that we can know all these things
about our audience, since there are so many different individuals.
Different people may react in different ways to a certain statement or
way of saying something based on their particular sensitivities at that
time. So, in the end, shouldn't we just try and communicate with each
other as clearly as possible and accept the words in front of us on the
screen for what they are?

So, if a person is ever going to quote me, I hope it is going to be
complete, correct and in the appropriate context.

=================
> Amazing how we all perceive words in our own ways. Its amazing our
> children grow up in spite of us. *smile*
=====================
Yes. This is precisely why I believe our actions are more powerful,
important, and lasting than our words.

Mimi
Who admits she is full of contradictions.
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cindy

Kolleen wrote:
>
> All lists that have 'cutting edge' ideals will have issues. Thats why the
> 'spiritual parenting' list I spoke of didn't have issues. Everyone
> complimented eachother, gave hugs, love and blessing and THAT list had NO
> substance.
>
I was on a homeschooling list that characterized itself as a kinder,
gentler place. It was if you were a member of the "in" group there.
But could they turn on those who were "other"! At that point
I saw some of the nastiest things posted on *any* homeschooling list!

--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

Sarah Carothers

On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:29:36 -0000, gruvystarchild wrote:
>But then who are they being compared to if they can
>"get behind".

Self appointed goals or ideals they wish to meet. The "get behind" in this case does not pertain to the typical scenario of a hsed kid being compared to a ps kid.
Both of my children are behind from THEIR point of view. Oldest would like to have already finished geometry yet she's just starting it. She talks about this as a disappointment all the time. She has a goal.. a schedule... an agenda and she's not met her own expectations. She is disappointed yet she is still moving forward. My role as her parent, is to point out that what she perceives as 'behind' isn't really behind at all if she considers that she's way ahead in other areas.
--
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 01/26/2002


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Leslie Moyer

+ Both of my children are behind from THEIR point of view.

Sarah, I used to know a grown-up (sorta--at least she's older <g>)
unschooler who said she *always* worried about this when she was young.
Because she *didn't* have any "yardstick" for comparison, she just always
felt she didn't know what she "should". She was only reassured when she was
able to help a friend through her school algebra class and knew the
answers....that was, when she had a "yardstick". No matter how much her
mother reassured her or talked with her about her fears, it didn't matter.
IN HER HEAD she worried. I think it's probably a common phenomenon....not
inevitable, probably, but common, I bet. I know one of my own teens has
struggled with this from time to time, too....which is the reason he chose
to do American School last year, I think. It is his "yardstick"....his
"proof" to himself that he knows "enough". Now my daughter....she could
care less! :-)

--Leslie Moyer

Leslie Moyer

+ -----Original Message-----
+ From: gruvystarchild [mailto:starsuncloud@...]
+ ---
+ I should have looked it up.

Yea--hindsight is 20/20. Hopefully we all live and learn from our mistakes.

--Leslie Moyer

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@c...>
wrote:

> But then who are they being compared to if they can "get behind".
> I thought it was worthy of questioning.
> I still think it is.
> And I am dumbfounded that questioning that premise would cause all
of
> this backlash.
> Ren

I think this is another reader response thing. I read the
phrase "getting behind" as "getting in a rut" or "getting frustrated
with themselves" not as some kind of comparison to national norms.

Bridget