[email protected]

I wanted to ask the list how you are recording things in the preparation for
college in the future even if your children are young? Do you plan to think
about it later, or are you recording things now and planning a head. My son
is 12 and has an interest in being a video game designer...I bet all little
boys want to do that. But, I actually have called the college he likes that
has that degree and am going to be taking him there on an overnight 'field
trip' with his 4 year old younger brother. The drive is about 1-2 hours
away. I want to take him to some of the classes and meet some of the
students and teachers. I also want to meet with an admissions director who
has told me they have many homeschoolers. I think I should plan now on ways
that he can set himself apart from others and record them or some things that
are special. He may never go to college, but I feel I will explore things
like this with him now so he knows that he can get in if he wants to.

What do all of you think?

Mary OH

donabak

Hi Mary and other Group Members:

I have a 12 year old son who also thinks he will be a game designer.
I have set up a tour for him at a local company that designs and
sells video games. There he will be walked through the whole process
from the artists through to the marketers. He will get an idea of
what part of the video game design experience he likes. I think it is
really cool that they have agreed to let him see their set up.
Perhaps they are scouting for future talent. You can't start too soon
in a business like that.

This reminds me of something that is happening with my daughter and I
have been meaning to ask you all about it. My 7 year old dd has been
writing books and she asked me last summer if I thought that anyone
would buy them, as she wants to make her own money. I told her that
she could always try to sell them, but that she would need to make
lots of copies or we could do them up on the computer and have them
bound etc. She told me that she would like to do this (on the
computer).

She was frustrated with having to do the drawings and so I suggested
that maybe we could find an artist who would do the pictures. My
daughter has seemed fine with all of this telling me she just wants
to sell her books so she can make money. However, my husband tells me
that he thinks I am going overboard (and being materialistic when he
proposes I should be fostering our daughter's artistic nature.)

I have found an artist to do the drawings and I have had my daughter
explain exactly how she wants the characters in her book to look. The
artist and I are trading services, as he needs some help with
marketing himself and I have some experience with that.

I have also told my daughter that if she wanted to, we could find out
if the local humane society or SPCA will sell her books once they are
ready for printing. If they will, I want to start a publishing
company in my daughters name (run under our family's corporation as
my husband and I own a consulting business and the kids do work for
us) and self-publish her book.

The publishing company would eventually be my daughter's if she wants
to pursue writing as a career. (she has told us since kindergarten
that she wants to be an author and she is constantly writing books).
Her and I have talked about the publishing process and what an author
has to do: a. get a publisher to buy the book or b. self-publish. She
just keeps saying, "Do you really think people will buy my book? I
really want to make money."

Am I just providing the tools for her to learn something or, in your
opinion, am I going overboard? It is my impression that my daughter
may be more geared toward "sales" than she is "art". I encourage them
both.

E.g., my son above is heavily into drama and I support him by driving
him to his classes, attending his productions and fund raising for
the theatre (which was an expectation upon sign-up.) I do not tell
him where I think he should go with his acting or how long he should
pursue it etc. If it makes him happy, great! It sounds, even to me,
that I'm second-guessing myself.

Thanks for listening.

Dona Baker
Edmonton, Alberta

<My son is 12 and has an interest in being a video game designer...I
bet all little boys want to do that. But, I actually have called the
college he likes that has that degree and am going to be taking him
there on an overnight 'field trip' with his 4 year old younger
brother> Mary OH

rumpleteasermom

I don't think you are going overboard as long as you are not giving
you daughter unrealistic expectations. Getting published or
developing a good following for self-publishing is difficult. It can
be done but you have to really WANT to be doing it. If your dd just
wants to make money, there may be things she would like better. If
wants to WRITE, this is a very good thing.

It all boils down to what she wants.

Bridget



--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "donabak" <donabak@t...> wrote:

> The publishing company would eventually be my daughter's if she
wants
> to pursue writing as a career. (she has told us since kindergarten
> that she wants to be an author and she is constantly writing
books).
> Her and I have talked about the publishing process and what an
author
> has to do: a. get a publisher to buy the book or b. self-publish.
She
> just keeps saying, "Do you really think people will buy my book? I
> really want to make money."
>
> Am I just providing the tools for her to learn something or, in
your
> opinion, am I going overboard? It is my impression that my daughter
> may be more geared toward "sales" than she is "art". I encourage
them
> both.

Groundhoggirl

On Friday, January 25, 2002, at 10:00 AM, donabak wrote:

> Hi Mary and other Group Members:
>
> My 7 year old dd has been
> writing books and she asked me last summer if I thought that anyone
> would buy them, as she wants to make her own money. I told her that
> she could always try to sell them, but that she would need to make
> lots of copies or we could do them up on the computer and have them
> bound etc. She told me that she would like to do this (on the
> computer).
>
> She was frustrated with having to do the drawings and so I suggested
> that maybe we could find an artist who would do the pictures. My
> daughter has seemed fine with all of this telling me she just wants
> to sell her books so she can make money. However, my husband tells me
> that he thinks I am going overboard (and being materialistic when he
> proposes I should be fostering our daughter's artistic nature.)

===================
I don't think you're going overboard at all. I think it's wonderful you
are able to do all this for your daughter. IMHO you should go as far as
she's willing to go. Just follow her lead and do what you can do to
help her follow her interests. If her interest is in sales, I
personally, don't think there's anything wrong with that. Just by
helping her write these books, I'm sure you have been fostering her
artistic nature all along. Isn't writing an artistic venture?

Also, just because she wants to make money doesn't automatically mean
she is or will be materialistic. IMO, wanting to make money is not a
bad thing. A lot of good can be done with money. It can bring a lot of
happiness. It can certainly give her a sense of independence which, I
think, is a good thing and is one of the reasons why we unschool our two
boys.

Mimi
>
> I have found an artist to do the drawings and I have had my daughter
> explain exactly how she wants the characters in her book to look. The
> artist and I are trading services, as he needs some help with
> marketing himself and I have some experience with that.
>
> I have also told my daughter that if she wanted to, we could find out
> if the local humane society or SPCA will sell her books once they are
> ready for printing. If they will, I want to start a publishing
> company in my daughters name (run under our family's corporation as
> my husband and I own a consulting business and the kids do work for
> us) and self-publish her book.
>
> The publishing company would eventually be my daughter's if she wants
> to pursue writing as a career. (she has told us since kindergarten
> that she wants to be an author and she is constantly writing books).
> Her and I have talked about the publishing process and what an author
> has to do: a. get a publisher to buy the book or b. self-publish. She
> just keeps saying, "Do you really think people will buy my book? I
> really want to make money."
>
> Am I just providing the tools for her to learn something or, in your
> opinion, am I going overboard? It is my impression that my daughter
> may be more geared toward "sales" than she is "art". I encourage them
> both.
>
>
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>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

joanna514

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Unschoolingmommy@a... wrote:
> I wanted to ask the list how you are recording things in the
preparation for
> college in the future even if your children are young?***

I'm not planning on going back to college, but if I decide too, I'll
do what I need to do to get in. I sure don't want anyone pushing me
in that direction though.


**My son
> is 12 and has an interest in being a video game designer...I bet
all little
> boys want to do that. But, I actually have called the college he
likes that
> has that degree and am going to be taking him there on an
overnight 'field
> trip' with his 4 year old younger brother.***

This implies to me, that going to college, is very important to you,
or atleast you think your son can't become a video game designer
without it. I wonder what your son thinks.



**** I think I should plan now on ways
> that he can set himself apart from others and record them or some
things that
> are special. He may never go to college, but I feel I will explore
things
> like this with him now so he knows that he can get in if he wants
to.*****

He can get in if he wants too. If he has a real desire, he will get
in.
It sounds to me like you are pushing your agenda on to your child.
Has he requested to do any of this, or are you taking his passion,
and leading him in a direction you think is best, for him to achieve
his (your?) goals. I think you might be leaving him with an
impression of what is expected. If you have expectations, then you
are going in the right direction. If you want him to lead a life
that comes from his desires and motivation, I would suggest you
rethink it.
Joanna

>
> What do all of you think?
>
> Mary OH

Sarah Carothers

Mary in Ohio wrote:
>My son
>> is 12 and has an interest in being a video game
>designer...I bet
>all little
>> boys want to do that.  But, I actually have called the
>college he
>likes that
>> has that degree and am going to be taking him there on
>an
>overnight 'field
>> trip' with his 4 year old younger brother.***

My first reaction to your post is that he's awfully young to be going out college-scouting. Did he ask you to set this up? Or is this an extension to an interest he expressed and you felt it would be good/helpful to look into it further? Not knowing him, I can't say, but when I think of my own 11 yr old daughter, going to a college would be wayyyyyy over her comprehension level. Of course, each child is different. He may be much more mature than my 11 yr old.


<<I wanted to ask the list how you are recording things
in the
preparation for
> college in the future even if your children are
young?***>>>>.

I'm of the opinion that colleges won't care what your child did at any age under 16 or there abouts unless it was some *really special* something like winning a national geography bee and even then, I'm not so sure they'd care. My readings indicate that what colleges care about are SAT's, GPA's and references from people they consider 'in the know' such as teachers, coaches and the like.
My oldest is almost 16 and we aren't recording anything even though she does alot. When the time comes, which is a few years from now, we'll collect letters of recommendations, turn in the SAT scores and create some sort of overview of what she did as a teen.
--
Sarah Carothers, ihavabentley@... on 01/25/2002


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Leslie Moyer

+ My oldest is almost 16 and we aren't recording anything even
+ though she does alot. When the time comes, which is a few years
+ from now, we'll collect letters of recommendations,

Sarah, Cafi Cohen suggests starting to collect letters of recommendation
earlier--8th grade, I think. At first I thought I would feel weird asking
for a letter for college when my son is only 15, but after I thought about
it, it made sense. I don't know that I'd bother with this prior to high
school level unless, like you said, it is something extraordinary. I was
thinking that, for example, my son is very involved in Boy Scouts. I
envision his continued involvement, but who knows what could happen in the
future. If, for example, his Scout leader retires or moves....and I'd like
what he's writing to be fresh in his memory. A good time to ask for that
recommendation was when Matt was acting as the Senior Patrol Leader and was
really doing a lot in the troop. And, while I think Matt will still be
involved in the troop after he earns his Eagle rank, I doubt he'll be
involved indefinitely and I know his Scout Leader has mixed feelings about
"losing" kids as they get older. I'd like him to write about Matt now and
then if other things come up in the future that would make it better, I can
always ask for another letter later. Kids' interests and activities wax and
wane....I think it's a good idea to "strike while the iron's hot".

My kids volunteer at the library regularly and a couple other places on and
off. The librarian will remember them for a long time, I'm sure, but some
of the other "shorter" stint places might not....or management could change.

Now--despite this, I haven't done it yet!! :-) I still think it's a good
idea, though. Ha!

Speaking of Cafi Cohen....for those of you with teens or thinking ahead to
the college years, Cafi has a newer book out on the topic. Her older one
was more specifically about her own children, but this new one is a little
broader and, I think, easier-to-read. I like it. It's called
_Homeschoolers' College Admissions Handbook: Preparing 12- to 18-year-olds
for success in the college of their choice_. Prima Publishing. Published
2000.

--Leslie Moyer

Sarah Carothers

On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:25:41 -0600, Leslie Moyer wrote:
>
>Now--despite this, I haven't done it yet!!  :-)  I still
>think it's a good
>idea, though.  Ha!
>

Well, I'll eat my words.::choke:: I *do* ask people she volunteers for to write a letter relating the experience as it pertains to dd. Also, dd worked several years with her gymnastics teacher(began at the tender age of 11) and we have a letter each year that documents how she spent her time, how she had grown from year to year and all that stuff. It's not organized by any stretch... just letters kept in a notebook for later use. What I *don't* have documented that I feel I should have is her annual academic accomplishments (i.e. she completed Miquan math as a kid by herself, now it's Harold Jacobs Algebra and so forth). I guess when the time comes, I'll go through the bookshelves and find a way to compile her accomplishments with that as my base.
I need to read Cafie Cohen's site more but I always get sidetracked and never make it to the place I orig. intended to go :-)

--
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 01/25/2002


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Dear Sarah,

I agree that recording right now is not really important. I would be taking
him to see others who are interested in video design just so he could see it,
but not really to try to get him into the school right now or in the near
future...just following his interests.

Mary

Sarah Carothers

On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:40:21 EST, Unschoolingmommy@... wrote:
>
>just so he could see it,
>but not really to try to get him into the school right
>now or in the near
>future...just following his interests.
>
>Mary

If you could locate a business doing this, it might (??) be more enjoyable for him because those people would be past the 'requirements' (all the basics one has to take in college) and these people would be delving strictly into the gaming industry.
In Real Lives by Grace Lewelllyn, did you read the story about the teenager who had that same interest? You should find that book.. it was really interesting!
--
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 01/25/2002


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pat Cald...

Leslie wrote:
+Speaking of Cafi Cohen....for those of you with teens or thinking ahead +to
+the college years, Cafi has a newer book out on the topic. Her older one
+was more specifically about her own children, but this new one is a +little
+broader and, I think, easier-to-read. I like it. It's called
+_Homeschoolers' College Admissions Handbook: Preparing 12- to 18-year-+olds
+for success in the college of their choice_. Prima Publishing. +Published
+2000.

+--Leslie Moyer

I read the book. It really got me thinking about the type of college my dd would want to go to. She would just want to go to a place to get an education not enter a competition. It irks me to think these colleges want to be paid for their services and still they want us to jump through hoops to see who gets to pay them. I can understand if I were applying for a job, I would be competing with other qualified applicants and would need to show some credentials but that is a position where the employer is going to pay me. We will not be jumping through any hoops here. I will do the same type record keeping as I do for our state portfolio review.

Pat


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cindy

joanna514 wrote:
>
> **My son
> > is 12 and has an interest in being a video game designer...I bet
> all little
> > boys want to do that. But, I actually have called the college he
> likes that
> > has that degree and am going to be taking him there on an
> overnight 'field
> > trip' with his 4 year old younger brother.***
>
> This implies to me, that going to college, is very important to you,
> or atleast you think your son can't become a video game designer
> without it. I wonder what your son thinks.
>

Actually depending on where in the economic cycle one is, it can mean
that a person can't get started in that business without a degree.
Back in the good old days, all one needed was an interest, a willingness
to work long hours and an ability to learn. Now that it is more
established and games cost more money to produce, it isn't that
easy. Sometimes it isn't what our children think - it's what
market forces are. The video game business is *huge* as in billions
of dollars a year. The production of a game is almost as involved
as a Hollywood movie. One way to get started is to work as a
tester. I know the current game I'm playing could have used more
testing before release!<g>

The Game Developers Conference is in late March in Santa Clara, CA.
I don't know where you are located but it's a very big conference
on many different aspects of the gaming business. My DH will be
going.

--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

rumpleteasermom

Mary,
I don't think it sounds like you are pushing him.

I also think that as far as the expectations Joanna speaks of
here . . . well, society has expectations in general. My kids know
that many people expect them to go to college because that is 'what's
done'. They know their dad wants them to go to college and has
careers all picked out for them. They also know that I don't care
whether they get degrees or go to college at all. They know that the
decision is theirs. I think it is an important lesson to learn - -
the one about other people having expectations that you don't have to
live up to if you are moving in a different direction. I can't say
at what age mine learned that lesson but they are 14 and 16 now and
know it way down deep where it will stick.

Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "joanna514" <Wilkinson6@m...> wrote:
>
> He can get in if he wants too. If he has a real desire, he will
get
> in.
> It sounds to me like you are pushing your agenda on to your child.
> Has he requested to do any of this, or are you taking his passion,
> and leading him in a direction you think is best, for him to
achieve
> his (your?) goals. I think you might be leaving him with an
> impression of what is expected. If you have expectations, then you
> are going in the right direction. If you want him to lead a life
> that comes from his desires and motivation, I would suggest you
> rethink it.
> Joanna
>