[Unschooling-dotcom] College degrees
Pat Cald...
Elana mentioned something about student loans. Now that puts another twist to the thread. A degree is one thing but racking up high student loans for the darned thing is not a good idea unless you are talking about something like medical school where you have no other choice. I was listening to something on NPR the other day and they were talking about there being a problem with people on Medicaid not being able to get dental care. They said dentists would not take a patient that could only pay what Medicaid offered because of the $200,000 worth of student loans on top of the money it costs to set up a practice. That is ridiculous!
Pat
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: elana weisberg
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:41 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] gel candles
Hi there,
Not wanting to sound like my older, more confident, can handle it all older
sister.....Please check the stories "shared" by co-workers, friends and yes,
even e-list friends. www.truthorfiction.com is an excellent free place to
check the story prior to posting it or forwarding it to friends. I
unfortunately, have often been the person forwarding the story on our of
concern for family, friends etc. The gel candle, it is on there, please
check it out for yourselves.
As for the college degree...my dh has bachelors, masters and CPA, he is
unemployed since November. The degrees mean nothing when searching for a job
to keep our home and putting food on the table. The best we have going for
us right now is my doggy boarding business and his "experience" 17 years of
hard work will pay off, whereas we just paid off his student loans three
years ago. just a thought.
Elana Weisberg
hs ashley 13, jason (RAD) 11, chloe 10 and Gavrielle 3 1/2
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:03:49 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:
the reader if they *really* want to enter this field and caution
repeatedly how darned costly it is just to become a doctor. With
HMO's and all that stuff, no telling how it's going to end up but the
atmosphere is definitely changing. I've read that doctors are leaving
the field because of the costs (insurance cost for a surgeon are well
over $50,0000 a year!)
So it continues... individuals suffer and the big corporation giants
continue to prosper.
:(
--
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 01/23/2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I was listening toyes, but true. Every medical book I've look at starts off by asking
>something on NPR the other day and they were talking
>about there being a problem with people on Medicaid
>not being able to get dental care. They said
>dentists would not take a patient that could only
>pay what Medicaid offered because of the $200,000
>worth of student loans on top of the money it costs
>to set up a practice. That is ridiculous!
>Pat
the reader if they *really* want to enter this field and caution
repeatedly how darned costly it is just to become a doctor. With
HMO's and all that stuff, no telling how it's going to end up but the
atmosphere is definitely changing. I've read that doctors are leaving
the field because of the costs (insurance cost for a surgeon are well
over $50,0000 a year!)
So it continues... individuals suffer and the big corporation giants
continue to prosper.
:(
--
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 01/23/2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pat Cald...
From: Sarah Carothers
+yes, but true. Every medical book I've look at starts off by asking
+the reader if they *really* want to enter this field and caution
+repeatedly how darned costly it is just to become a doctor. With
+HMO's and all that stuff, no telling how it's going to end up but the
+atmosphere is definitely changing. I've read that doctors are leaving
+the field because of the costs (insurance cost for a surgeon are well
+over $50,0000 a year!)
+So it continues... individuals suffer and the big corporation giants
+continue to prosper.
+:(
$50,0000 - that's and interesting number. Did you mean $50,000 or $500,000?
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
+yes, but true. Every medical book I've look at starts off by asking
+the reader if they *really* want to enter this field and caution
+repeatedly how darned costly it is just to become a doctor. With
+HMO's and all that stuff, no telling how it's going to end up but the
+atmosphere is definitely changing. I've read that doctors are leaving
+the field because of the costs (insurance cost for a surgeon are well
+over $50,0000 a year!)
+So it continues... individuals suffer and the big corporation giants
+continue to prosper.
+:(
$50,0000 - that's and interesting number. Did you mean $50,000 or $500,000?
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
50,000. I'm trying to locate the book that had that specific
information so I can give you an exact figure but suffice to say, it
was a ridiculously high number.
--
Sarah Carothers, ihavabentley@... on 01/23/2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
information so I can give you an exact figure but suffice to say, it
was a ridiculously high number.
--
Sarah Carothers, ihavabentley@... on 01/23/2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Moyer
+ Sarah Carothers, ihavabentley@... on 01/23/2002
"Ihavabentley"????? I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!! :-)
--Leslie
"Ihavabentley"????? I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!! :-)
--Leslie
Lynda
Alrighty, flame proof suit on here <g> How about if we started cutting the
price for our students to go to medical school instead of giving folks from
other countries a FREE medical school education! Yes, FREE!
Also, one way out of the high expense is to work in a rural community and
have your loans "forgiven." Unfortunately, the "average" U.S. medical
student doesn't want to "work for free [they are paid but not very much] for
a bunch of poor people" and that is a quote from one student that was
interviewed!
There are rural communites that are advertising for doctors. They are
willing to pay the insurance, set them up in practice and even take on some
of their student loan burden! NO ONE is applying!
Now, as to dentists. It doesn't cost them anything near as much as a doc
unless they are going into orthodontic surgery speciality! Further, they
actually charge more than medical doctors and their insurance rates are
lower.
Quite honestly and unfortunately, I think a lot of doctors and dentists are
just plain greedy!
Lynda
price for our students to go to medical school instead of giving folks from
other countries a FREE medical school education! Yes, FREE!
Also, one way out of the high expense is to work in a rural community and
have your loans "forgiven." Unfortunately, the "average" U.S. medical
student doesn't want to "work for free [they are paid but not very much] for
a bunch of poor people" and that is a quote from one student that was
interviewed!
There are rural communites that are advertising for doctors. They are
willing to pay the insurance, set them up in practice and even take on some
of their student loan burden! NO ONE is applying!
Now, as to dentists. It doesn't cost them anything near as much as a doc
unless they are going into orthodontic surgery speciality! Further, they
actually charge more than medical doctors and their insurance rates are
lower.
Quite honestly and unfortunately, I think a lot of doctors and dentists are
just plain greedy!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] College degrees
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:03:49 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:
> >I was listening to
> >something on NPR the other day and they were talking
> >about there being a problem with people on Medicaid
> >not being able to get dental care. They said
> >dentists would not take a patient that could only
> >pay what Medicaid offered because of the $200,000
> >worth of student loans on top of the money it costs
> >to set up a practice. That is ridiculous!
> >Pat
>
> yes, but true. Every medical book I've look at starts off by asking
> the reader if they *really* want to enter this field and caution
> repeatedly how darned costly it is just to become a doctor. With
> HMO's and all that stuff, no telling how it's going to end up but the
> atmosphere is definitely changing. I've read that doctors are leaving
> the field because of the costs (insurance cost for a surgeon are well
> over $50,0000 a year!)
> So it continues... individuals suffer and the big corporation giants
> continue to prosper.
> :(
> --
> Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 01/23/2002
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
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>
>
Fetteroll
on 1/24/02 1:53 AM, Lynda at lurine@... wrote:
from particular countries? All medical schools?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> How about if we started cutting theCould you site a source for this? All foreign medical students? Some? Those
> price for our students to go to medical school instead of giving folks from
> other countries a FREE medical school education! Yes, FREE!
from particular countries? All medical schools?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lorraine Goods
> on 1/24/02 1:53 AM, Lynda at lurine@... wrote:To my understanding, it is mostly the foreign governments who pay for
>
> > How about if we started cutting the
> > price for our students to go to medical school instead of giving folks from
> > other countries a FREE medical school education! Yes, FREE!
their citizens' education. A student from Germany, for example, can go to
university for a very low cost and their gov't will pay the cost of
tuition no matter where they go to school, even if that student attends
school in the US. I could be wrong, though.
Best,
Lynn
Sarah Carothers
On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:15:31 -0600, Leslie Moyer wrote:
that was fantastic although we're still poor as hell). I desperately
needed a new car as I have hauled the two kids and Golden around in a
tiny Suzuki Sidekick for YEARS and when it was time to get groceries,
I had to leave everybody at home just to squeeze the bags in the car!
So, with the raise, I asked for a car... a bigger car (new or used..
who cared). "no." "no,no,no".
I had *been* looking at dogs all along so out of sheer frustration, I
decided I'd go ahead and purchase that dog I couldn't afford (a
havanese) and while I was at it, I'd name him the most expensive car
I could find......a Bentley.
That's the story :-).
--
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 01/24/2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
><g> It all started when my dh got a raise of nearly $20,000 (for us,
>"Ihavabentley"????? I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!! :-)
>--Leslie
>
that was fantastic although we're still poor as hell). I desperately
needed a new car as I have hauled the two kids and Golden around in a
tiny Suzuki Sidekick for YEARS and when it was time to get groceries,
I had to leave everybody at home just to squeeze the bags in the car!
So, with the raise, I asked for a car... a bigger car (new or used..
who cared). "no." "no,no,no".
I had *been* looking at dogs all along so out of sheer frustration, I
decided I'd go ahead and purchase that dog I couldn't afford (a
havanese) and while I was at it, I'd name him the most expensive car
I could find......a Bentley.
That's the story :-).
--
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 01/24/2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Moyer
+ How about if we started cutting the price for our
+ students to go to medical school instead of giving
+ folks from other countries a FREE medical school
+ education! Yes, FREE!
We have hosted several foreign exchange students. One of them, a boy from
Macedonia, lived with us for high school and then came back outside the
exchange program and lived with us for two years of college. He started at
a community college and after getting an Associate's Degree last spring,
started at the University of Oklahoma this fall. We love him and he's a
terrific young man...and very smart.
He paid for his first year at Community College, but during that next year
one of his honors professors was really impressed by him and asked him if he
could APPLY FOR A SCHOLARSHIP ON HIS BEHALF. He didn't have to do a
thing--the professor filled it all out and all he did was sign his name.
He got that Regents Scholarship that paid for his last year at community
college and full tuition, books, and quite a few living expenses for his
next 3 years at the U. of OK. He'll be able to finish his bachelor's degree
and one year of his master's degree on that scholarship.
And before he'd finished one semester at OU, he got an internship (through
the university, but at a private company) and they've already asked him to
stay on until he graduates....at which time he's hoping/planning that they
will pay for his master's program. (His degree will be in business or
finance.)
Now.....this guy is a *wonderful* guy--part of our family--and has *all* it
takes to be very successful in life. But it does still bug me just a bit
that he's getting all this money for college when he or his parents haven't
paid a penny in state or federal taxes. (His earning are tax-exempt...at
least they were last year.) Here I am worried (when I think about it!)
about how I'm going to pay for college for my 3 and he's going to college
for free.
I can look at the flip side, too.....Macedonia is a struggling economy in
the midst of a very unstable region. Helping this young man now may make a
difference to their economy--and ours--in the future. And, no matter where
he's from, he is a deserving young man and will give back much to society.
Still....
I also place foreign exchange students, so I've worked with dozens over the
last few years. I can tell you that almost *EVERYWHERE* (but particularly
in poorer countries), they have a misconception that they can come to the US
and get a free college education. It's really not true. I have seen
several kids who *did* get a free education, but it really is *not* easy.
The kids who come are often (not always) outstanding kids, so sometimes they
can get scholarships for particular things they're good at. But WAY more
often they find that it's just not that easy. Unfortunately, one story
about a kid like our Macedonian exchange student really makes the rounds
"back home" and the story grows with each telling. :-)
Probably a dozen of his friends came here the same year he did intending to
go to college in the US. Two of them are still here, but neither of them
was able to get any money at all for college. The others gave up when they
found out that college wasn't free and/or they were too homesick to stay.
One friend still has delusions that he's going to work for Bill Gates and
"get rich quick". :-)
Pat, I place German students all the time and I don't think its true that
their country will pay for them to go to college here....at least I've never
heard of it and don't personally know any German exchange students who went
to college here. Their country won't even pay for all of them to go to
college--in fact, in most other countries college is free only to the very
few "smartest" kids and quite expensive for the rest.
I would love to write about the Macedonian public school system for you all.
I will later today or tomorrow. It's very interesting and an improvement in
many ways to what we have here. More later on that!
Leslie Moyer
+ students to go to medical school instead of giving
+ folks from other countries a FREE medical school
+ education! Yes, FREE!
We have hosted several foreign exchange students. One of them, a boy from
Macedonia, lived with us for high school and then came back outside the
exchange program and lived with us for two years of college. He started at
a community college and after getting an Associate's Degree last spring,
started at the University of Oklahoma this fall. We love him and he's a
terrific young man...and very smart.
He paid for his first year at Community College, but during that next year
one of his honors professors was really impressed by him and asked him if he
could APPLY FOR A SCHOLARSHIP ON HIS BEHALF. He didn't have to do a
thing--the professor filled it all out and all he did was sign his name.
He got that Regents Scholarship that paid for his last year at community
college and full tuition, books, and quite a few living expenses for his
next 3 years at the U. of OK. He'll be able to finish his bachelor's degree
and one year of his master's degree on that scholarship.
And before he'd finished one semester at OU, he got an internship (through
the university, but at a private company) and they've already asked him to
stay on until he graduates....at which time he's hoping/planning that they
will pay for his master's program. (His degree will be in business or
finance.)
Now.....this guy is a *wonderful* guy--part of our family--and has *all* it
takes to be very successful in life. But it does still bug me just a bit
that he's getting all this money for college when he or his parents haven't
paid a penny in state or federal taxes. (His earning are tax-exempt...at
least they were last year.) Here I am worried (when I think about it!)
about how I'm going to pay for college for my 3 and he's going to college
for free.
I can look at the flip side, too.....Macedonia is a struggling economy in
the midst of a very unstable region. Helping this young man now may make a
difference to their economy--and ours--in the future. And, no matter where
he's from, he is a deserving young man and will give back much to society.
Still....
I also place foreign exchange students, so I've worked with dozens over the
last few years. I can tell you that almost *EVERYWHERE* (but particularly
in poorer countries), they have a misconception that they can come to the US
and get a free college education. It's really not true. I have seen
several kids who *did* get a free education, but it really is *not* easy.
The kids who come are often (not always) outstanding kids, so sometimes they
can get scholarships for particular things they're good at. But WAY more
often they find that it's just not that easy. Unfortunately, one story
about a kid like our Macedonian exchange student really makes the rounds
"back home" and the story grows with each telling. :-)
Probably a dozen of his friends came here the same year he did intending to
go to college in the US. Two of them are still here, but neither of them
was able to get any money at all for college. The others gave up when they
found out that college wasn't free and/or they were too homesick to stay.
One friend still has delusions that he's going to work for Bill Gates and
"get rich quick". :-)
Pat, I place German students all the time and I don't think its true that
their country will pay for them to go to college here....at least I've never
heard of it and don't personally know any German exchange students who went
to college here. Their country won't even pay for all of them to go to
college--in fact, in most other countries college is free only to the very
few "smartest" kids and quite expensive for the rest.
I would love to write about the Macedonian public school system for you all.
I will later today or tomorrow. It's very interesting and an improvement in
many ways to what we have here. More later on that!
Leslie Moyer
Cindy
Leslie Moyer wrote:
pay for a student's education with the understanding that they
will return to their country and help. The understanding was
just that - and so many would stay here so they could get
money rather than helping out. I think a lot of those
loopholes have been closed now.
I know when I was a student at UC Santa Cruz, there was a concern
about sending so many application packages overseas. It cost a
lot of money (>$10) and the state was paying that cost. I don't
know what solution was used or if it's still the same now.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>Sometimes their government or ours or some combination will
> + How about if we started cutting the price for our
> + students to go to medical school instead of giving
> + folks from other countries a FREE medical school
> + education! Yes, FREE!
>
pay for a student's education with the understanding that they
will return to their country and help. The understanding was
just that - and so many would stay here so they could get
money rather than helping out. I think a lot of those
loopholes have been closed now.
I know when I was a student at UC Santa Cruz, there was a concern
about sending so many application packages overseas. It cost a
lot of money (>$10) and the state was paying that cost. I don't
know what solution was used or if it's still the same now.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
Leslie Moyer
+ -----Original Message-----
+ From: Cindy [mailto:crma@...]
+
+ Leslie Moyer wrote:
+ >
+ > + How about if we started cutting the price for our
+ > + students to go to medical school instead of giving
+ > + folks from other countries a FREE medical school
+ > + education! Yes, FREE!
Minor correction....that was Lynda who wrote that, not me.
--Leslie Moyer
+ From: Cindy [mailto:crma@...]
+
+ Leslie Moyer wrote:
+ >
+ > + How about if we started cutting the price for our
+ > + students to go to medical school instead of giving
+ > + folks from other countries a FREE medical school
+ > + education! Yes, FREE!
Minor correction....that was Lynda who wrote that, not me.
--Leslie Moyer
Cindy
Leslie Moyer wrote:
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>Sorry about that!
> Minor correction....that was Lynda who wrote that, not me.
>
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
adair
I've been swamped getting my daughter enrolled at the local communist
college and not able to keep up with the mail, so excuse me if I repeat
anything...yes even my own messages. Guess I had better review them
My daughter left a couple of weeks ago, at 16. Yesterday she began her
first art class at the college, and how wonderful it was that the people
worked with us. They allowed her into a class for art majors and
matriculated students. These people bent over backwards.
There are some programs, one is called "The Ability to Benefit Program,"
for people who really need their child to have a HS diploma...they can go
to HS and college AT THE SAME TIME. I don't have the information, yet, on
that, frankly, I'm kind of hoping she doesn't look back at HS and just
applies for the GED once she reaches the required 24 (or 25) college
credits. Her plan at this time is to go to art school, and according tot
he college catalogue and their program for her specialty, she needs
precious little of what high school has.
In any case, I am very pleased with how wonderful the people up there have
been. It's been a rough few months with the depression and resulting
chaos, but being free of school has changed her outlook a great deal.
.+'*'+.+'*'+.
. adair@...
*'+. .+'*
*
college and not able to keep up with the mail, so excuse me if I repeat
anything...yes even my own messages. Guess I had better review them
My daughter left a couple of weeks ago, at 16. Yesterday she began her
first art class at the college, and how wonderful it was that the people
worked with us. They allowed her into a class for art majors and
matriculated students. These people bent over backwards.
There are some programs, one is called "The Ability to Benefit Program,"
for people who really need their child to have a HS diploma...they can go
to HS and college AT THE SAME TIME. I don't have the information, yet, on
that, frankly, I'm kind of hoping she doesn't look back at HS and just
applies for the GED once she reaches the required 24 (or 25) college
credits. Her plan at this time is to go to art school, and according tot
he college catalogue and their program for her specialty, she needs
precious little of what high school has.
In any case, I am very pleased with how wonderful the people up there have
been. It's been a rough few months with the depression and resulting
chaos, but being free of school has changed her outlook a great deal.
.+'*'+.+'*'+.
. adair@...
*'+. .+'*
*
Groundhoggirl
On Saturday, January 26, 2002, at 11:23 AM, adair wrote:
Wow! I didn't know there were any communist colleges in this country!
Mimi
>=============
>
> I've been swamped getting my daughter enrolled at the local communist
> college....
Wow! I didn't know there were any communist colleges in this country!
Mimi
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
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> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>