Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
Kolleen
[snip]
even babies just starting to eat, will always go for foods that *their*
bodies need - they were careful to mention that the children were
presented a variety of wholesome foods - and reiterated NO JUNK.
Children should be allowed to pick their own foods from the start. Which
includes nursing at will for however long a session or however long in
years that that child feels compelled to do so.
Its not natural when those choices include addicting and 'druglike' foods
such as refined sugar.
I'd like to defer to some of Daniel Greenbergs advice from his Child
Rearing book. (Greenberg was co-founder of Sudbury Valley School - as
unschooling as you can get in a school - no teachers and classes on
student initiation only)
"In order to allow childrend the free choice they require in their diet,
the home environment has to have enough variety to make up whatever
deficiencies the children's feedback mechanism forces them to notice and
repair."
He also makes a purposeful note of again making sure the environment is
monitored carefully for poisons. Not just medicines, but foodstuffs.
And I quote:
"This applies particularly to things like sugar, which is the most common
poison used in our culture... Like its relative, alcohol, sugar is
addictive and creates an ever growing need in the system for more and
more, to the point where the system is no longer able to keeps itself
alive. I suspect that initially a child's intake of sugar and alcohol
will mimic that of his parents, but I'm not sure; at any rate, the
problem of regulating or eliminating these and other poisons is one that
cannot be ignored."
Again quoting from a previous chapter:
"It has been demonstrated repeatedly that purified sugar - not all sweet
tasting food, no honey or molasses or many other such sweets, but pure
sugar - if given freely along with other foods to healthy animals or
people, will pre-empt nutritional foods, and the animals will often
continue to eat it until they die of malnutrition. There is something
about sugar that apparently throws the natural balance off completely."
I hope this clears up any confusion one might have in a household with
free-range moppets *grin* Just offer the best of the best and let their
bodies decide.
Regards,
Kolleen
>I understand your concerns in this area, my oldest (now 10yo)....well,[snip]
>all my youngsters seem to have a sweet tooth. I mostly try to work on this
>by example. And I think it's important to share information about how
>sugar/any refined carbohydrate is digested.....what it does in your body,
>especially how it can cause a spike followed by a sharp drop in blood sugar
>(which in turn gives afalse sensation of hunger). Beyond trying to help
>them be aware of the effects of suger on thier body and explaining....I'd
>let them be in food choices. And offer lots of choices.
>SusanWhen Mothering Magazine did a great article (years back) on how children,
even babies just starting to eat, will always go for foods that *their*
bodies need - they were careful to mention that the children were
presented a variety of wholesome foods - and reiterated NO JUNK.
Children should be allowed to pick their own foods from the start. Which
includes nursing at will for however long a session or however long in
years that that child feels compelled to do so.
Its not natural when those choices include addicting and 'druglike' foods
such as refined sugar.
I'd like to defer to some of Daniel Greenbergs advice from his Child
Rearing book. (Greenberg was co-founder of Sudbury Valley School - as
unschooling as you can get in a school - no teachers and classes on
student initiation only)
"In order to allow childrend the free choice they require in their diet,
the home environment has to have enough variety to make up whatever
deficiencies the children's feedback mechanism forces them to notice and
repair."
He also makes a purposeful note of again making sure the environment is
monitored carefully for poisons. Not just medicines, but foodstuffs.
And I quote:
"This applies particularly to things like sugar, which is the most common
poison used in our culture... Like its relative, alcohol, sugar is
addictive and creates an ever growing need in the system for more and
more, to the point where the system is no longer able to keeps itself
alive. I suspect that initially a child's intake of sugar and alcohol
will mimic that of his parents, but I'm not sure; at any rate, the
problem of regulating or eliminating these and other poisons is one that
cannot be ignored."
Again quoting from a previous chapter:
"It has been demonstrated repeatedly that purified sugar - not all sweet
tasting food, no honey or molasses or many other such sweets, but pure
sugar - if given freely along with other foods to healthy animals or
people, will pre-empt nutritional foods, and the animals will often
continue to eat it until they die of malnutrition. There is something
about sugar that apparently throws the natural balance off completely."
I hope this clears up any confusion one might have in a household with
free-range moppets *grin* Just offer the best of the best and let their
bodies decide.
Regards,
Kolleen
Pat Cald...
So Kolleen, is your house sugar free? What sweets do you mean when you say sweets yes.
Pat
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Kolleen
To: Unschooling.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
[snip]
>I understand your concerns in this area, my oldest (now 10yo)....well,
>all my youngsters seem to have a sweet tooth. I mostly try to work on this
>by example. And I think it's important to share information about how
>sugar/any refined carbohydrate is digested.....what it does in your body,
>especially how it can cause a spike followed by a sharp drop in blood sugar
>(which in turn gives afalse sensation of hunger). Beyond trying to help
>them be aware of the effects of suger on thier body and explaining....I'd
>let them be in food choices. And offer lots of choices.
[snip]
>Susan
When Mothering Magazine did a great article (years back) on how children,
even babies just starting to eat, will always go for foods that *their*
bodies need - they were careful to mention that the children were
presented a variety of wholesome foods - and reiterated NO JUNK.
Children should be allowed to pick their own foods from the start. Which
includes nursing at will for however long a session or however long in
years that that child feels compelled to do so.
Its not natural when those choices include addicting and 'druglike' foods
such as refined sugar.
I'd like to defer to some of Daniel Greenbergs advice from his Child
Rearing book. (Greenberg was co-founder of Sudbury Valley School - as
unschooling as you can get in a school - no teachers and classes on
student initiation only)
"In order to allow childrend the free choice they require in their diet,
the home environment has to have enough variety to make up whatever
deficiencies the children's feedback mechanism forces them to notice and
repair."
He also makes a purposeful note of again making sure the environment is
monitored carefully for poisons. Not just medicines, but foodstuffs.
And I quote:
"This applies particularly to things like sugar, which is the most common
poison used in our culture... Like its relative, alcohol, sugar is
addictive and creates an ever growing need in the system for more and
more, to the point where the system is no longer able to keeps itself
alive. I suspect that initially a child's intake of sugar and alcohol
will mimic that of his parents, but I'm not sure; at any rate, the
problem of regulating or eliminating these and other poisons is one that
cannot be ignored."
Again quoting from a previous chapter:
"It has been demonstrated repeatedly that purified sugar - not all sweet
tasting food, no honey or molasses or many other such sweets, but pure
sugar - if given freely along with other foods to healthy animals or
people, will pre-empt nutritional foods, and the animals will often
continue to eat it until they die of malnutrition. There is something
about sugar that apparently throws the natural balance off completely."
I hope this clears up any confusion one might have in a household with
free-range moppets *grin* Just offer the best of the best and let their
bodies decide.
Regards,
Kolleen
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kolleen
>So Kolleen, is your house sugar free? What sweets do you mean when youYes, my house is processed sugar-free.
>say sweets yes.
>
>Pat
There's something called 'Sundrops' which are dead ringers for M&Ms.
We have cookies (some flavoured with organic cane juice, some with fruit
juice)
Ice cream is organic cane juice sweetened or honey sweetened.
I remember making whipped cream for the kid's first b'day cake with
organic heavy cream and maple syrup.
Peelu is the gum I buy that is sweetened with malt sugars (I think, I
don't have a pack on me to look it up).
Lollipops with malt sugar or honey. And Jellybeans with malt sugar or
fruit juice.
Jellos and puddings are also available.
And there's a great line of honey sweetened cereals available now.
On *rare* occasion when we're away or out and about, my son wants 'bubble
gum', since the Peelu is minty and he thinks is too spicy. So then, and
only then, we buy Bazooka. Yes, Bazooka. It has refinded sugar BUT it
doesn't have a lot of the other crap that a lot of gums have. And it
doesn't have aspartme (sp) which is deadlier than refinded sugar.
Keeping these treats in my purse, or in a goodie backpack that we drag
around, is a great way to keep outside influences from making my son feel
slighted.
TV advertisements does make it hard on me. BUT, luckily the health food
community has come FAR from the 'wheatgrass only' days and now we can get
some yogurt squeezies (Stonyfield) and some ice pops and *almost*
everything else that is marketed towards children sans the junky
chemicals.
I have no problems when he goes into the goodie drawer (the ex-big-bread
drawer) and takes what he wants.
regards,
kolleen
Lynda
Well, if nothing else in the world will convert folks to organic, it is
organic heavy cream whipped with organic maple syrup!
Folks really don't know what whipped cream is anymore.
I challenge y'all to read the label on that can of RediWhip or even the
carton of "Joe's Local Dairy" whipping cream.
Then buy a carton of organic/no BGH/no other garbage, pure heavy cream and
whip it. You'll be hooked for life!
Lynda
organic heavy cream whipped with organic maple syrup!
Folks really don't know what whipped cream is anymore.
I challenge y'all to read the label on that can of RediWhip or even the
carton of "Joe's Local Dairy" whipping cream.
Then buy a carton of organic/no BGH/no other garbage, pure heavy cream and
whip it. You'll be hooked for life!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kolleen" <Kolleen@...>
To: "Unschooling.com" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
> >So Kolleen, is your house sugar free? What sweets do you mean when you
> >say sweets yes.
> >
> >Pat
>
>
> Yes, my house is processed sugar-free.
>
> There's something called 'Sundrops' which are dead ringers for M&Ms.
>
> We have cookies (some flavoured with organic cane juice, some with fruit
> juice)
>
> Ice cream is organic cane juice sweetened or honey sweetened.
>
> I remember making whipped cream for the kid's first b'day cake with
> organic heavy cream and maple syrup.
>
> Peelu is the gum I buy that is sweetened with malt sugars (I think, I
> don't have a pack on me to look it up).
>
> Lollipops with malt sugar or honey. And Jellybeans with malt sugar or
> fruit juice.
>
> Jellos and puddings are also available.
>
> And there's a great line of honey sweetened cereals available now.
>
> On *rare* occasion when we're away or out and about, my son wants 'bubble
> gum', since the Peelu is minty and he thinks is too spicy. So then, and
> only then, we buy Bazooka. Yes, Bazooka. It has refinded sugar BUT it
> doesn't have a lot of the other crap that a lot of gums have. And it
> doesn't have aspartme (sp) which is deadlier than refinded sugar.
>
> Keeping these treats in my purse, or in a goodie backpack that we drag
> around, is a great way to keep outside influences from making my son feel
> slighted.
>
> TV advertisements does make it hard on me. BUT, luckily the health food
> community has come FAR from the 'wheatgrass only' days and now we can get
> some yogurt squeezies (Stonyfield) and some ice pops and *almost*
> everything else that is marketed towards children sans the junky
> chemicals.
>
> I have no problems when he goes into the goodie drawer (the ex-big-bread
> drawer) and takes what he wants.
>
> regards,
> kolleen
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Alan Moorehead
I buy "Horizon" organic heavy whipping cream. It's out of this world!!!
Mimi
Mimi
On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:18 AM, Lynda wrote:
> Well, if nothing else in the world will convert folks to organic, it is
> organic heavy cream whipped with organic maple syrup!
>
> Folks really don't know what whipped cream is anymore.
>
> I challenge y'all to read the label on that can of RediWhip or even the
> carton of "Joe's Local Dairy" whipping cream.
>
> Then buy a carton of organic/no BGH/no other garbage, pure heavy cream
> and
> whip it. You'll be hooked for life!
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kolleen" <Kolleen@...>
> To: "Unschooling.com" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 3:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
>
>
>>> So Kolleen, is your house sugar free? What sweets do you mean when
>>> you
>>> say sweets yes.
>>>
>>> Pat
>>
>>
>> Yes, my house is processed sugar-free.
>>
>> There's something called 'Sundrops' which are dead ringers for M&Ms.
>>
>> We have cookies (some flavoured with organic cane juice, some with
>> fruit
>> juice)
>>
>> Ice cream is organic cane juice sweetened or honey sweetened.
>>
>> I remember making whipped cream for the kid's first b'day cake with
>> organic heavy cream and maple syrup.
>>
>> Peelu is the gum I buy that is sweetened with malt sugars (I think, I
>> don't have a pack on me to look it up).
>>
>> Lollipops with malt sugar or honey. And Jellybeans with malt sugar or
>> fruit juice.
>>
>> Jellos and puddings are also available.
>>
>> And there's a great line of honey sweetened cereals available now.
>>
>> On *rare* occasion when we're away or out and about, my son wants
>> 'bubble
>> gum', since the Peelu is minty and he thinks is too spicy. So then, and
>> only then, we buy Bazooka. Yes, Bazooka. It has refinded sugar BUT it
>> doesn't have a lot of the other crap that a lot of gums have. And it
>> doesn't have aspartme (sp) which is deadlier than refinded sugar.
>>
>> Keeping these treats in my purse, or in a goodie backpack that we drag
>> around, is a great way to keep outside influences from making my son
>> feel
>> slighted.
>>
>> TV advertisements does make it hard on me. BUT, luckily the health food
>> community has come FAR from the 'wheatgrass only' days and now we can
>> get
>> some yogurt squeezies (Stonyfield) and some ice pops and *almost*
>> everything else that is marketed towards children sans the junky
>> chemicals.
>>
>> I have no problems when he goes into the goodie drawer (the
>> ex-big-bread
>> drawer) and takes what he wants.
>>
>> regards,
>> kolleen
>>
>>
>> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>>
>> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
>> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
debbie jones
Since I'm just starting my path down the food sensitivity route, and believe milk and milk products are causing a large problem of ADD symptoms to my son, what would you recommend to use as substitutes for milk, ice cream, cheese in macaroni and cheese, etc? My son is feeling very deprived right now without his milk. He went from having milk problems as a baby to over the years and adding the milk back into his diet (after soy), thinking he was ok. He was our biggest milk drinker in the family. I have since decided that he may indeed still have problems and milk is probably it. It's only been about a week, and I can't tell yet, and wonder at what point I will be able to tell if it's helping. I haven't given him the Adderall in the last week and wonder if I can give him the medication and still do an elimination diet at the same time?
Debbie
Alan Moorehead <groundhoggirl@...> wrote: I buy "Horizon" organic heavy whipping cream. It's out of this world!!!
Mimi
Debbie
Alan Moorehead <groundhoggirl@...> wrote: I buy "Horizon" organic heavy whipping cream. It's out of this world!!!
Mimi
On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:18 AM, Lynda wrote:
> Well, if nothing else in the world will convert folks to organic, it is
> organic heavy cream whipped with organic maple syrup!
>
> Folks really don't know what whipped cream is anymore.
>
> I challenge y'all to read the label on that can of RediWhip or even the
> carton of "Joe's Local Dairy" whipping cream.
>
> Then buy a carton of organic/no BGH/no other garbage, pure heavy cream
> and
> whip it. You'll be hooked for life!
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kolleen" <Kolleen@...>
> To: "Unschooling.com" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 3:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
>
>
>>> So Kolleen, is your house sugar free? What sweets do you mean when
>>> you
>>> say sweets yes.
>>>
>>> Pat
>>
>>
>> Yes, my house is processed sugar-free.
>>
>> There's something called 'Sundrops' which are dead ringers for M&Ms.
>>
>> We have cookies (some flavoured with organic cane juice, some with
>> fruit
>> juice)
>>
>> Ice cream is organic cane juice sweetened or honey sweetened.
>>
>> I remember making whipped cream for the kid's first b'day cake with
>> organic heavy cream and maple syrup.
>>
>> Peelu is the gum I buy that is sweetened with malt sugars (I think, I
>> don't have a pack on me to look it up).
>>
>> Lollipops with malt sugar or honey. And Jellybeans with malt sugar or
>> fruit juice.
>>
>> Jellos and puddings are also available.
>>
>> And there's a great line of honey sweetened cereals available now.
>>
>> On *rare* occasion when we're away or out and about, my son wants
>> 'bubble
>> gum', since the Peelu is minty and he thinks is too spicy. So then, and
>> only then, we buy Bazooka. Yes, Bazooka. It has refinded sugar BUT it
>> doesn't have a lot of the other crap that a lot of gums have. And it
>> doesn't have aspartme (sp) which is deadlier than refinded sugar.
>>
>> Keeping these treats in my purse, or in a goodie backpack that we drag
>> around, is a great way to keep outside influences from making my son
>> feel
>> slighted.
>>
>> TV advertisements does make it hard on me. BUT, luckily the health food
>> community has come FAR from the 'wheatgrass only' days and now we can
>> get
>> some yogurt squeezies (Stonyfield) and some ice pops and *almost*
>> everything else that is marketed towards children sans the junky
>> chemicals.
>>
>> I have no problems when he goes into the goodie drawer (the
>> ex-big-bread
>> drawer) and takes what he wants.
>>
>> regards,
>> kolleen
>>
>>
>> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>>
>> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
>> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
Favorite milk substitutes here:
For Ice Cream - Tofutti. We've also tried Rice Dream and a few
others but Tofutti is the only one she likes.
For Cheese - She doesn't like any of the good subs - she tolerates
artificial american slices which are chemical laden and have a
minimal milk content. I liked the almond based cheese subs - but
then I'm not the one who can't eat real cheese.
Mac & Cheese and other such - Check around. We have a couple natural
food stores that sell substitutes.
Jenni too was our biggest milk drinker. We discovered her problem
because I was a bad mom and ran out of milk - twice - when she was
3. Some of her symptoms cleared up immediately. Some others took
longer. But those quick ones tipped us off. She gets the classic
intoerance symptoms and then she gets rashes, wheezes and headaches.
Bridget
For Ice Cream - Tofutti. We've also tried Rice Dream and a few
others but Tofutti is the only one she likes.
For Cheese - She doesn't like any of the good subs - she tolerates
artificial american slices which are chemical laden and have a
minimal milk content. I liked the almond based cheese subs - but
then I'm not the one who can't eat real cheese.
Mac & Cheese and other such - Check around. We have a couple natural
food stores that sell substitutes.
Jenni too was our biggest milk drinker. We discovered her problem
because I was a bad mom and ran out of milk - twice - when she was
3. Some of her symptoms cleared up immediately. Some others took
longer. But those quick ones tipped us off. She gets the classic
intoerance symptoms and then she gets rashes, wheezes and headaches.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., debbie jones <dljones0@y...> wrote:
>
> Since I'm just starting my path down the food sensitivity route,
and believe milk and milk products are causing a large problem of ADD
symptoms to my son, what would you recommend to use as substitutes
for milk, ice cream, cheese in macaroni and cheese, etc? My son is
feeling very deprived right now without his milk. He went from having
milk problems as a baby to over the years and adding the milk back
into his diet (after soy), thinking he was ok. He was our biggest
milk drinker in the family. I have since decided that he may indeed
still have problems and milk is probably it. It's only been about a
week, and I can't tell yet, and wonder at what point I will be able
to tell if it's helping. I haven't given him the Adderall in the last
week and wonder if I can give him the medication and still do an
elimination diet at the same time?
> Debbie
debbie jones
Thanks. I'll try those. I'm not sure how far I'll get. My son at 14 isn't much interested in going without the things he loves, he says, but I have insisted that we at least try to eliminate them for a while to see what is causing this. I don't know if these food senitivities could actually cause him to lose focus and the ADD symptoms he has, but I'm willing to find out. It could be better than drugging him.
Debbie
rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@...> wrote: Favorite milk substitutes here:
For Ice Cream - Tofutti. We've also tried Rice Dream and a few
others but Tofutti is the only one she likes.
For Cheese - She doesn't like any of the good subs - she tolerates
artificial american slices which are chemical laden and have a
minimal milk content. I liked the almond based cheese subs - but
then I'm not the one who can't eat real cheese.
Mac & Cheese and other such - Check around. We have a couple natural
food stores that sell substitutes.
Jenni too was our biggest milk drinker. We discovered her problem
because I was a bad mom and ran out of milk - twice - when she was
3. Some of her symptoms cleared up immediately. Some others took
longer. But those quick ones tipped us off. She gets the classic
intoerance symptoms and then she gets rashes, wheezes and headaches.
Bridget
Debbie
rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@...> wrote: Favorite milk substitutes here:
For Ice Cream - Tofutti. We've also tried Rice Dream and a few
others but Tofutti is the only one she likes.
For Cheese - She doesn't like any of the good subs - she tolerates
artificial american slices which are chemical laden and have a
minimal milk content. I liked the almond based cheese subs - but
then I'm not the one who can't eat real cheese.
Mac & Cheese and other such - Check around. We have a couple natural
food stores that sell substitutes.
Jenni too was our biggest milk drinker. We discovered her problem
because I was a bad mom and ran out of milk - twice - when she was
3. Some of her symptoms cleared up immediately. Some others took
longer. But those quick ones tipped us off. She gets the classic
intoerance symptoms and then she gets rashes, wheezes and headaches.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., debbie jones <dljones0@y...> wrote:
>
> Since I'm just starting my path down the food sensitivity route,
and believe milk and milk products are causing a large problem of ADD
symptoms to my son, what would you recommend to use as substitutes
for milk, ice cream, cheese in macaroni and cheese, etc? My son is
feeling very deprived right now without his milk. He went from having
milk problems as a baby to over the years and adding the milk back
into his diet (after soy), thinking he was ok. He was our biggest
milk drinker in the family. I have since decided that he may indeed
still have problems and milk is probably it. It's only been about a
week, and I can't tell yet, and wonder at what point I will be able
to tell if it's helping. I haven't given him the Adderall in the last
week and wonder if I can give him the medication and still do an
elimination diet at the same time?
> Debbie
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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rumpleteasermom
This is just a suggestion so do with it what you will . . .
try organic milk instead of eliminating entirely.
and experiment with eliminating other chemical additives too.
See my previous post about Wyndham's allergies. His symptoms can
look like ADD at times too. Of course when we don't eliminate the
offending substance it progresses to rashes and asthma within hours.
Bridget
try organic milk instead of eliminating entirely.
and experiment with eliminating other chemical additives too.
See my previous post about Wyndham's allergies. His symptoms can
look like ADD at times too. Of course when we don't eliminate the
offending substance it progresses to rashes and asthma within hours.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., debbie jones <dljones0@y...> wrote:
>
> Thanks. I'll try those. I'm not sure how far I'll get. My son at
14 isn't much interested in going without the things he loves, he
says, but I have insisted that we at least try to eliminate them for
a while to see what is causing this. I don't know if these food
senitivities could actually cause him to lose focus and the ADD
symptoms he has, but I'm willing to find out. It could be better than
drugging him.
> Debbie
Lynda
One of the reasons for not using refined sugar is how they are refined.
Bone char (charcoal) and/or pressure lead filters are used. "pure" cane
sugar simply refers to only cane, not beet sugar being used. refined sugars
are far from "pure."
Quite a few vegetarians only use beet sugars because the bone char is used
in cane sugars.
Here's one link that explains the process http://www.sucrose.com/lref.html
This site explains the process for getting the bone char which is not
something I want in my food source
http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj97mar/973sugar.htm and is another reason we
only buy the kosher "jello" that have no geletin in them!
If you are going to use sugar, buy the organic raw sugars. They are not
chemically processed.
Lynda
Bone char (charcoal) and/or pressure lead filters are used. "pure" cane
sugar simply refers to only cane, not beet sugar being used. refined sugars
are far from "pure."
Quite a few vegetarians only use beet sugars because the bone char is used
in cane sugars.
Here's one link that explains the process http://www.sucrose.com/lref.html
This site explains the process for getting the bone char which is not
something I want in my food source
http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj97mar/973sugar.htm and is another reason we
only buy the kosher "jello" that have no geletin in them!
If you are going to use sugar, buy the organic raw sugars. They are not
chemically processed.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "debbie jones" <dljones0@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
>
> Since I'm just starting my path down the food sensitivity route, and
believe milk and milk products are causing a large problem of ADD symptoms
to my son, what would you recommend to use as substitutes for milk, ice
cream, cheese in macaroni and cheese, etc? My son is feeling very deprived
right now without his milk. He went from having milk problems as a baby to
over the years and adding the milk back into his diet (after soy), thinking
he was ok. He was our biggest milk drinker in the family. I have since
decided that he may indeed still have problems and milk is probably it. It's
only been about a week, and I can't tell yet, and wonder at what point I
will be able to tell if it's helping. I haven't given him the Adderall in
the last week and wonder if I can give him the medication and still do an
elimination diet at the same time?
> Debbie
> Alan Moorehead <groundhoggirl@...> wrote: I buy "Horizon"
organic heavy whipping cream. It's out of this world!!!
>
> Mimi
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:18 AM, Lynda wrote:
>
> > Well, if nothing else in the world will convert folks to organic, it is
> > organic heavy cream whipped with organic maple syrup!
> >
> > Folks really don't know what whipped cream is anymore.
> >
> > I challenge y'all to read the label on that can of RediWhip or even the
> > carton of "Joe's Local Dairy" whipping cream.
> >
> > Then buy a carton of organic/no BGH/no other garbage, pure heavy cream
> > and
> > whip it. You'll be hooked for life!
> >
> > Lynda
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kolleen" <Kolleen@...>
> > To: "Unschooling.com" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 3:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
> >
> >
> >>> So Kolleen, is your house sugar free? What sweets do you mean when
> >>> you
> >>> say sweets yes.
> >>>
> >>> Pat
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, my house is processed sugar-free.
> >>
> >> There's something called 'Sundrops' which are dead ringers for M&Ms.
> >>
> >> We have cookies (some flavoured with organic cane juice, some with
> >> fruit
> >> juice)
> >>
> >> Ice cream is organic cane juice sweetened or honey sweetened.
> >>
> >> I remember making whipped cream for the kid's first b'day cake with
> >> organic heavy cream and maple syrup.
> >>
> >> Peelu is the gum I buy that is sweetened with malt sugars (I think, I
> >> don't have a pack on me to look it up).
> >>
> >> Lollipops with malt sugar or honey. And Jellybeans with malt sugar or
> >> fruit juice.
> >>
> >> Jellos and puddings are also available.
> >>
> >> And there's a great line of honey sweetened cereals available now.
> >>
> >> On *rare* occasion when we're away or out and about, my son wants
> >> 'bubble
> >> gum', since the Peelu is minty and he thinks is too spicy. So then, and
> >> only then, we buy Bazooka. Yes, Bazooka. It has refinded sugar BUT it
> >> doesn't have a lot of the other crap that a lot of gums have. And it
> >> doesn't have aspartme (sp) which is deadlier than refinded sugar.
> >>
> >> Keeping these treats in my purse, or in a goodie backpack that we drag
> >> around, is a great way to keep outside influences from making my son
> >> feel
> >> slighted.
> >>
> >> TV advertisements does make it hard on me. BUT, luckily the health food
> >> community has come FAR from the 'wheatgrass only' days and now we can
> >> get
> >> some yogurt squeezies (Stonyfield) and some ice pops and *almost*
> >> everything else that is marketed towards children sans the junky
> >> chemicals.
> >>
> >> I have no problems when he goes into the goodie drawer (the
> >> ex-big-bread
> >> drawer) and takes what he wants.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> kolleen
> >>
> >>
> >> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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debbie jones
Bridget,
I bought the Tofutti the other day and my son loved it! And the Rice Dream milk is very good! I like it much better than the Westsoy. The Silk brand is pretty good too.
Debbie
rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@...> wrote: Favorite milk substitutes here:
For Ice Cream - Tofutti. We've also tried Rice Dream and a few
others but Tofutti is the only one she likes.
For Cheese - She doesn't like any of the good subs - she tolerates
artificial american slices which are chemical laden and have a
minimal milk content. I liked the almond based cheese subs - but
then I'm not the one who can't eat real cheese.
Mac & Cheese and other such - Check around. We have a couple natural
food stores that sell substitutes.
Jenni too was our biggest milk drinker. We discovered her problem
because I was a bad mom and ran out of milk - twice - when she was
3. Some of her symptoms cleared up immediately. Some others took
longer. But those quick ones tipped us off. She gets the classic
intoerance symptoms and then she gets rashes, wheezes and headaches.
Bridget
I bought the Tofutti the other day and my son loved it! And the Rice Dream milk is very good! I like it much better than the Westsoy. The Silk brand is pretty good too.
Debbie
rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@...> wrote: Favorite milk substitutes here:
For Ice Cream - Tofutti. We've also tried Rice Dream and a few
others but Tofutti is the only one she likes.
For Cheese - She doesn't like any of the good subs - she tolerates
artificial american slices which are chemical laden and have a
minimal milk content. I liked the almond based cheese subs - but
then I'm not the one who can't eat real cheese.
Mac & Cheese and other such - Check around. We have a couple natural
food stores that sell substitutes.
Jenni too was our biggest milk drinker. We discovered her problem
because I was a bad mom and ran out of milk - twice - when she was
3. Some of her symptoms cleared up immediately. Some others took
longer. But those quick ones tipped us off. She gets the classic
intoerance symptoms and then she gets rashes, wheezes and headaches.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., debbie jones <dljones0@y...> wrote:
>
> Since I'm just starting my path down the food sensitivity route,
and believe milk and milk products are causing a large problem of ADD
symptoms to my son, what would you recommend to use as substitutes
for milk, ice cream, cheese in macaroni and cheese, etc? My son is
feeling very deprived right now without his milk. He went from having
milk problems as a baby to over the years and adding the milk back
into his diet (after soy), thinking he was ok. He was our biggest
milk drinker in the family. I have since decided that he may indeed
still have problems and milk is probably it. It's only been about a
week, and I can't tell yet, and wonder at what point I will be able
to tell if it's helping. I haven't given him the Adderall in the last
week and wonder if I can give him the medication and still do an
elimination diet at the same time?
> Debbie
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pat Cald...
After giving my children the freedom to decide their own bedtime a few days ago, I am beginning to miss my few hours of quiet time. This is very hard. How does everyone else get a moments piece?
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brynn
Pat,
Although letting kids decide their own bedtime etc, works for some people,
it does NOT work for us. We went that route for some time, also allowing the
kids to get for themselves, mainly our son as he is older, but the day he
came to me and told me that he missed some things that he really liked and
it made him sad that I didn't do some things for him like I used to. He was
completely understanding about taking care of more things for himself, but
this was actually making him sad. There were little comforts that my mother
did for me when I was very young, but then she stopped doing and I took
these things as she didn't care. I really understood what he was saying. Our
children decide a lot of things for themselves, but not everything.
About the bedtime-like I said, although letting kids choose their own
bedtime works for some, it doesn't work for us. Our daughter just falls
apart when she gets too tired, and it turns evenings into chaos. There is
something to be said in our house for a calming evening regime. Our son
would love to stay up until 3:00 am or later if he could, has fought sleep
ever since he left the womb :-). When he would stay up late, he would still
wake up at 8:00 am! He could stay up until 1:30 am and he would still wake
before 8am. Sometimes earlier. This would work for a day, but then we would
ALL suffer because he would turn into such an ornery little bugger that it
wasn't just effecting him, it was effecting all of us. A friend of mine
comments often about how hard it is to have a later schedule as her kids
will end up sleeping until almost noon, and in our neck of the woods
(Pacific Northwest), up beyond that 38th parallel, it's dark by 4:00 pm and
when their day should be half done, it's already basically over. I believe
they have changed the bedtime hour, but I know it was hard for her. I can
see how, when our son is a little older, staying up later and little more
regularly might happen, and sometimes the kids stay up later than usual.
Last night they stayed up until 11:45 watching a movie, but the night before
they were zonked by 8:30.
I guess I'm just old fashioned in the belief that although your children can
lead their own interests, and learning in so many ways, there is a level of
guidance that they not only need, but can really thrive on and take comfort
in.
Also, being as though our kids go to sleep in our bed, dh puts them in their
beds when we go to sleep but one or both usually end up back in our bed by
morning, our time alone is extremely limited. I have come to realize that if
mom isn't doing for mom a little bit, everyone will end up feeling it. I
need some quiet time now and then in the evening, and I cherish when I get
it.
Good luck to you, and like I said before, this is what works for US, I know
there are so many of you that keep all different hours, so please don't
flame me for stating what works for us.
Take care and blessings,
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Although letting kids decide their own bedtime etc, works for some people,
it does NOT work for us. We went that route for some time, also allowing the
kids to get for themselves, mainly our son as he is older, but the day he
came to me and told me that he missed some things that he really liked and
it made him sad that I didn't do some things for him like I used to. He was
completely understanding about taking care of more things for himself, but
this was actually making him sad. There were little comforts that my mother
did for me when I was very young, but then she stopped doing and I took
these things as she didn't care. I really understood what he was saying. Our
children decide a lot of things for themselves, but not everything.
About the bedtime-like I said, although letting kids choose their own
bedtime works for some, it doesn't work for us. Our daughter just falls
apart when she gets too tired, and it turns evenings into chaos. There is
something to be said in our house for a calming evening regime. Our son
would love to stay up until 3:00 am or later if he could, has fought sleep
ever since he left the womb :-). When he would stay up late, he would still
wake up at 8:00 am! He could stay up until 1:30 am and he would still wake
before 8am. Sometimes earlier. This would work for a day, but then we would
ALL suffer because he would turn into such an ornery little bugger that it
wasn't just effecting him, it was effecting all of us. A friend of mine
comments often about how hard it is to have a later schedule as her kids
will end up sleeping until almost noon, and in our neck of the woods
(Pacific Northwest), up beyond that 38th parallel, it's dark by 4:00 pm and
when their day should be half done, it's already basically over. I believe
they have changed the bedtime hour, but I know it was hard for her. I can
see how, when our son is a little older, staying up later and little more
regularly might happen, and sometimes the kids stay up later than usual.
Last night they stayed up until 11:45 watching a movie, but the night before
they were zonked by 8:30.
I guess I'm just old fashioned in the belief that although your children can
lead their own interests, and learning in so many ways, there is a level of
guidance that they not only need, but can really thrive on and take comfort
in.
Also, being as though our kids go to sleep in our bed, dh puts them in their
beds when we go to sleep but one or both usually end up back in our bed by
morning, our time alone is extremely limited. I have come to realize that if
mom isn't doing for mom a little bit, everyone will end up feeling it. I
need some quiet time now and then in the evening, and I cherish when I get
it.
Good luck to you, and like I said before, this is what works for US, I know
there are so many of you that keep all different hours, so please don't
flame me for stating what works for us.
Take care and blessings,
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
<like I said before, this is what works for US, I know
there are so many of you that keep all different hours, so please don't
flame me for stating what works for us.
Take care and blessings,
Brynn
it is in stark contrast to what you have described.
There are 4 of us in this household. DH works from 7pm to 7am so when he
comes home in the morning, he sleeps until about 1:00 in the afternoon.
DD age 15 wakes up about noon or 1:00pm. She does stuff around home until
dance classes start which is, on average 6 pm and doesn't end until about
9:30 (depending on the day). She stays up until 2:30 or 3:30 every single
night. She's a teen, don't cha know and that equates to a lot of time with
her online friends so her hours do not conflict with anyone elses' sleep
times because she's doing something that is quiet.
Youngest dd, age 11 keeps more of a time schedule like mine... bed about
midnight and up about 9. I *do* have to ask her to qive me some time to
myself almost daily because she would otherwise bring *every* craft project,
every book, every whatever into my room and want to involve me with it. The
more I try to push her away, the clingier she gets so I have to usually do
something with her and *then* point out that it is now time for *me* to do
blah blah blah (hang out here :-)). Then, she feels like she's had my
undivided attention and is fine about going off to do something on her own.
I have to recognize that each of us has our own inner clocks and times
that are our peak times. For us, it's all different but we have learned to
honor those times for ourselves without bothering the next guy.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
there are so many of you that keep all different hours, so please don't
flame me for stating what works for us.
Take care and blessings,
Brynn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.I'm not going to flame you! but I cam going to state what works for us since
it is in stark contrast to what you have described.
There are 4 of us in this household. DH works from 7pm to 7am so when he
comes home in the morning, he sleeps until about 1:00 in the afternoon.
DD age 15 wakes up about noon or 1:00pm. She does stuff around home until
dance classes start which is, on average 6 pm and doesn't end until about
9:30 (depending on the day). She stays up until 2:30 or 3:30 every single
night. She's a teen, don't cha know and that equates to a lot of time with
her online friends so her hours do not conflict with anyone elses' sleep
times because she's doing something that is quiet.
Youngest dd, age 11 keeps more of a time schedule like mine... bed about
midnight and up about 9. I *do* have to ask her to qive me some time to
myself almost daily because she would otherwise bring *every* craft project,
every book, every whatever into my room and want to involve me with it. The
more I try to push her away, the clingier she gets so I have to usually do
something with her and *then* point out that it is now time for *me* to do
blah blah blah (hang out here :-)). Then, she feels like she's had my
undivided attention and is fine about going off to do something on her own.
I have to recognize that each of us has our own inner clocks and times
that are our peak times. For us, it's all different but we have learned to
honor those times for ourselves without bothering the next guy.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>After giving my children the freedom to decide their own bedtime a fewI fought my son's wanting to stay up later than me when he hit his
>days ago, I am beginning to miss my few hours of quiet time. This is very
>hard. How does everyone else get a moments piece?
teens. I finally gave up and started going to bed earlier and getting up
earlier. The bonus is that my writing goes better because I'm fresh.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Shyrley
"Pat Cald..." wrote:
quiet time. I also take the dog out and leave them here. They rarely
watch TV in the evening so while they are about, I get intermittent
peace.
It is true that it is hard but you gradually adjust.
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> After giving my children the freedom to decide their own bedtime aMy brood often goes and plays on the computer so that is when I snatch
> few days ago, I am beginning to miss my few hours of quiet time. This
> is very hard. How does everyone else get a moments piece?
>
> Pat
>
>
quiet time. I also take the dog out and leave them here. They rarely
watch TV in the evening so while they are about, I get intermittent
peace.
It is true that it is hard but you gradually adjust.
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
Brynn,
I think it is important to realize that every family is different.
For many, no bed times works, for other it does not. Some start out
with bedtimes and gradually do away with them. There is a whole
spectrum of variety.
If what you are doing is working for you and EVERYONE is happy with
the situation, then stick with it.
We have no set bedtimes but Wyndham occassionally gets into a cycle
of staying up later and later. We encourage hime to switch back
subtly. Rachel is 16 and chooses when to sleep. I only intervene if
she is sleeping more than 12 hours a day and then it is merely to
point it out so she can figure out what's out of whack. Jenni is 14,
goes to bed when she wants and gets up when she wants and sleeps what
many consider to be "normal" hours. She's the ONLY one I never talk
to about sleeping not because she sleeps normal hours but because she
is consistent and healthy.
As for the issue of alone time for parents, ours are old enough that
we can just say it flat out when we want to be left alone for a
while. But when they were littler, we had an open door all the
time. Sure it cut down on our privacy and limited things for us, but
the kids always came first. They are only little for a few years.
Bridget
I think it is important to realize that every family is different.
For many, no bed times works, for other it does not. Some start out
with bedtimes and gradually do away with them. There is a whole
spectrum of variety.
If what you are doing is working for you and EVERYONE is happy with
the situation, then stick with it.
We have no set bedtimes but Wyndham occassionally gets into a cycle
of staying up later and later. We encourage hime to switch back
subtly. Rachel is 16 and chooses when to sleep. I only intervene if
she is sleeping more than 12 hours a day and then it is merely to
point it out so she can figure out what's out of whack. Jenni is 14,
goes to bed when she wants and gets up when she wants and sleeps what
many consider to be "normal" hours. She's the ONLY one I never talk
to about sleeping not because she sleeps normal hours but because she
is consistent and healthy.
As for the issue of alone time for parents, ours are old enough that
we can just say it flat out when we want to be left alone for a
while. But when they were littler, we had an open door all the
time. Sure it cut down on our privacy and limited things for us, but
the kids always came first. They are only little for a few years.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Brynn" <jb.pan@v...> wrote:
>
> I guess I'm just old fashioned in the belief that although your
children can
> lead their own interests, and learning in so many ways, there is a
level of
> guidance that they not only need, but can really thrive on and take
comfort
> in.
>
> Also, being as though our kids go to sleep in our bed, dh puts them
in their
> beds when we go to sleep but one or both usually end up back in our
bed by
> morning, our time alone is extremely limited. I have come to
realize that if
> mom isn't doing for mom a little bit, everyone will end up feeling
it. I
> need some quiet time now and then in the evening, and I cherish
when I get
> it.
>
> Good luck to you, and like I said before, this is what works for
US, I know
> there are so many of you that keep all different hours, so please
don't
> flame me for stating what works for us.
>
> Take care and blessings,
> Brynn
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/8/2002 10:29:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
Bridget,
What a sweet mother you are. It is true they grow too fast. And, it *is*
essential to get creative in those 'limited private times' you mention above.
We have a nest full of little ones still. It is all too important to see to
it that those private 'needs' are met (my husband wouldn't have it any other
WAY!). After the kids are grown it's back to 'just the two of you'. :)
~ Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
> But when they were littler, we had an open door all the---------------------------------------------------
> time. Sure it cut down on our privacy and limited things for us, but
> the kids always came first. They are only little for a few years.
>
> Bridget
>
Bridget,
What a sweet mother you are. It is true they grow too fast. And, it *is*
essential to get creative in those 'limited private times' you mention above.
We have a nest full of little ones still. It is all too important to see to
it that those private 'needs' are met (my husband wouldn't have it any other
WAY!). After the kids are grown it's back to 'just the two of you'. :)
~ Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Moyer
Pat,
Looks like it's about evenly divided so far on "get used to it, find quiet
time elsewhere" and "respect goes both ways". I'm weighing in on the
"respect goes both ways" side. (I've also noted a difference in the
responses based on the ages of the children--I think this is key....any
child who isn't old enough to be left alone unsupervised would require
different choices than a teen, for example.)
I don't care at all what time my kids go to SLEEP, but they are required to
respect the needs of others in our family. Their Dad has to get up early in
the morning and go to work to support our family...he needs his sleep. They
can stay awake as long as they want as long as they're not disturbing
others. My 3 kids have different sleep needs from each other, too, so that
the one who likes to stay up late has to turn his stereo off (or use
headphones) when the others with bedrooms near him want to go to sleep. And
there are times when my husband and I want to watch a movie that isn't
appropriate for them and we'll ask them to find something else to do. It's
not a problem--there are plenty of "something elses" that they'd rather do
than watch a movie....and I respect similar needs of theirs.
From the time my kids were quite little (I suppose it happened about the
time they moved out of our family bed and into their own rooms), I told them
it was "quiet time" (as opposed to "bed time"). They could find something
quiet to do in their rooms or they could choose to turn the lights off and
go to sleep. It has also been influenced a LOT by the floor plan of the
houses we've lived in and the ages of my children. Also, (Sarah--another
thing we have in common) my husband worked shift-work for a couple of years
and during this time, the "quiet hours" were different but the common theme
was respect for the needs of others. "Sleep" is a *vital* need.
And on another thread....
I think it was you, Pat, who asked the other day about "what if they have to
get up early in the morning" and also about having time for breakfast. We
had an interesting discussion about this just a couple months ago. "If they
have to get up early" has never been an issue for us. Since we never really
*had* a bedtime, the kids have accepted their responsibility for their sleep
needs very well. So if I remind them at night that they have an early
morning, they will take the initiative and get to sleep at a decent hour.
(I suspect after a "testing" period, your kids will make the same
responsible choices, too.)
The "eat" thing was a problem from time to time, though. Probably because
I'm overweight and have "food issues" myself! One morning we were headed to
a ballet performance and before we left the house I told the kids to eat
some sort of quick protein because the ballet wasn't over until 2:00 and we
wouldn't eat lunch until then. One of them didn't eat anything and we
argued about it in the car. He reminded me that if HE didn't eat, then it
was HE who paid the consequences and that didn't have anything to do with
me. I replied that as long as it didn't make him grouchy or sick (his blood
sugar was flaky from time to time as he was going through a teen growth
spurt then), then that was true, but that I was his Mom and I worried about
things like that--it was my job. We talked at length about DHS and parents
who don't feed their kids and what parental responsibility entailed.
Anyway--very long discussion ensued where he told me that he was old enough
to manage his eating habits on his own....to which we agreed that meant even
preparing dinners and lunches. He *is* a responsible young man and I
realized then that he WAS capable of these decisions.
It was a discovery of freedom for both of us. He was free to manage his own
diet and I was free from feeling like it was my responsibility.
I read somewhere that when considering these sorts of parenting decisions,
it helps to ask yourself if you would set these same rules for another
adult--your spouse or sibling, maybe. In the above scenario, if I was going
to the ballet with my husband, I might also remind him that we'd need to eat
a late lunch (as I am generally assumed to be the "scheduler" in the family,
he wouldn't necessarily know this), but I would never presume to TELL him
what he should eat. I'm not of the belief that *every* parental decision
would be equal to a decision you would make for another adult, but it *does*
help me to clarify where those lines are for me.
My lifelong-unschooler son helped me remember that the keys to this
parenting journey are *communication* and *flexibility*. I set some
boundaries; he challenged them; I listened to his arguments; he listened to
mine; we refined the boundaries to better suit both of us.
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
Looks like it's about evenly divided so far on "get used to it, find quiet
time elsewhere" and "respect goes both ways". I'm weighing in on the
"respect goes both ways" side. (I've also noted a difference in the
responses based on the ages of the children--I think this is key....any
child who isn't old enough to be left alone unsupervised would require
different choices than a teen, for example.)
I don't care at all what time my kids go to SLEEP, but they are required to
respect the needs of others in our family. Their Dad has to get up early in
the morning and go to work to support our family...he needs his sleep. They
can stay awake as long as they want as long as they're not disturbing
others. My 3 kids have different sleep needs from each other, too, so that
the one who likes to stay up late has to turn his stereo off (or use
headphones) when the others with bedrooms near him want to go to sleep. And
there are times when my husband and I want to watch a movie that isn't
appropriate for them and we'll ask them to find something else to do. It's
not a problem--there are plenty of "something elses" that they'd rather do
than watch a movie....and I respect similar needs of theirs.
From the time my kids were quite little (I suppose it happened about the
time they moved out of our family bed and into their own rooms), I told them
it was "quiet time" (as opposed to "bed time"). They could find something
quiet to do in their rooms or they could choose to turn the lights off and
go to sleep. It has also been influenced a LOT by the floor plan of the
houses we've lived in and the ages of my children. Also, (Sarah--another
thing we have in common) my husband worked shift-work for a couple of years
and during this time, the "quiet hours" were different but the common theme
was respect for the needs of others. "Sleep" is a *vital* need.
And on another thread....
I think it was you, Pat, who asked the other day about "what if they have to
get up early in the morning" and also about having time for breakfast. We
had an interesting discussion about this just a couple months ago. "If they
have to get up early" has never been an issue for us. Since we never really
*had* a bedtime, the kids have accepted their responsibility for their sleep
needs very well. So if I remind them at night that they have an early
morning, they will take the initiative and get to sleep at a decent hour.
(I suspect after a "testing" period, your kids will make the same
responsible choices, too.)
The "eat" thing was a problem from time to time, though. Probably because
I'm overweight and have "food issues" myself! One morning we were headed to
a ballet performance and before we left the house I told the kids to eat
some sort of quick protein because the ballet wasn't over until 2:00 and we
wouldn't eat lunch until then. One of them didn't eat anything and we
argued about it in the car. He reminded me that if HE didn't eat, then it
was HE who paid the consequences and that didn't have anything to do with
me. I replied that as long as it didn't make him grouchy or sick (his blood
sugar was flaky from time to time as he was going through a teen growth
spurt then), then that was true, but that I was his Mom and I worried about
things like that--it was my job. We talked at length about DHS and parents
who don't feed their kids and what parental responsibility entailed.
Anyway--very long discussion ensued where he told me that he was old enough
to manage his eating habits on his own....to which we agreed that meant even
preparing dinners and lunches. He *is* a responsible young man and I
realized then that he WAS capable of these decisions.
It was a discovery of freedom for both of us. He was free to manage his own
diet and I was free from feeling like it was my responsibility.
I read somewhere that when considering these sorts of parenting decisions,
it helps to ask yourself if you would set these same rules for another
adult--your spouse or sibling, maybe. In the above scenario, if I was going
to the ballet with my husband, I might also remind him that we'd need to eat
a late lunch (as I am generally assumed to be the "scheduler" in the family,
he wouldn't necessarily know this), but I would never presume to TELL him
what he should eat. I'm not of the belief that *every* parental decision
would be equal to a decision you would make for another adult, but it *does*
help me to clarify where those lines are for me.
My lifelong-unschooler son helped me remember that the keys to this
parenting journey are *communication* and *flexibility*. I set some
boundaries; he challenged them; I listened to his arguments; he listened to
mine; we refined the boundaries to better suit both of us.
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
Sarah Carothers
Leslie wrote:
<My lifelong-unschooler son helped me remember that the keys to this
parenting journey are *communication* and *flexibility*. >
and might I add respect.
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<My lifelong-unschooler son helped me remember that the keys to this
parenting journey are *communication* and *flexibility*. >
and might I add respect.
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Groundhoggirl
On Tuesday, January 8, 2002, at 10:29 AM, Sarah Carothers wrote:
in life is to be HAPPY!
Mimi
> Leslie wrote:I would like to add: remembering that one of the most important things
> <My lifelong-unschooler son helped me remember that the keys to this
> parenting journey are *communication* and *flexibility*. >
>
> and might I add respect.
>
> Sarah Carothers
>
in life is to be HAPPY!
Mimi
Leslie Moyer
+ Leslie wrote:
+
+ <My lifelong-unschooler son helped me remember that the keys to this
+
+ parenting journey are *communication* and *flexibility*. >
+
Sarah added:
+ and might I add respect.
+
That's so funny! After I wrote that I hopped in the shower and was thinking
about what I wrote and decided that I needed to add a p.s. of "respect"!
Here I am soaking wet in a towel and I come back to see that Sarah has taken
care of it for me! :-)
Leslie Moyer
+
+ <My lifelong-unschooler son helped me remember that the keys to this
+
+ parenting journey are *communication* and *flexibility*. >
+
Sarah added:
+ and might I add respect.
+
That's so funny! After I wrote that I hopped in the shower and was thinking
about what I wrote and decided that I needed to add a p.s. of "respect"!
Here I am soaking wet in a towel and I come back to see that Sarah has taken
care of it for me! :-)
Leslie Moyer
Sarah Carothers
Leslie wrote while dripping all over keyboard:
<That's so funny! After I wrote that I hopped in the shower and was
thinking
about what I wrote and decided that I needed to add a p.s. of "respect"!
Here I am soaking wet in a towel and I come back to see that Sarah has taken
care of it for me! :-)
Leslie Moyer
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<That's so funny! After I wrote that I hopped in the shower and was
thinking
about what I wrote and decided that I needed to add a p.s. of "respect"!
Here I am soaking wet in a towel and I come back to see that Sarah has taken
care of it for me! :-)
Leslie Moyer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Great minds, Leslie :-)
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brynn
I agree Leslie and Mimi. Flexibility. For example, last night the kids were
up laaaate doing science experiments on the front porch, creating a lava
flowing cardboard volcano in the front herb garden by the front steps and ds
was hunting worms for his turtle during this time as well. Flexibility! Some
nights it's earlier to bed than others. Being flexible is so important.
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
up laaaate doing science experiments on the front porch, creating a lava
flowing cardboard volcano in the front herb garden by the front steps and ds
was hunting worms for his turtle during this time as well. Flexibility! Some
nights it's earlier to bed than others. Being flexible is so important.
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pat Cald...
Brynn,
How old are your kids? Mine are 10 and 12. Eventhough I got more down time at night, the night time routine was not really working for us. It was a continuous battle. I figured this was a true sign that something needed to change. I think if things are going smoothly and kids see certain limits as comforting as opposed to controlling then there is no reason to change. I think there are always signs if you just stop and look for them. I'm going to give it a little more time. I probably just need to get used to the difference. I am a person who likes routines and can be a little inflexible. It is probably good for me to work on this part of my personality.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How old are your kids? Mine are 10 and 12. Eventhough I got more down time at night, the night time routine was not really working for us. It was a continuous battle. I figured this was a true sign that something needed to change. I think if things are going smoothly and kids see certain limits as comforting as opposed to controlling then there is no reason to change. I think there are always signs if you just stop and look for them. I'm going to give it a little more time. I probably just need to get used to the difference. I am a person who likes routines and can be a little inflexible. It is probably good for me to work on this part of my personality.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lorraine Goods
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Brynn wrote:
then it is hell for all of us, all day. Also, my husband and I are still
very romantic w/each other and we like to have the evenings to ourselves.
Our son has his own bed but crawls into ours in the middle of the night
whenever he feels like it. We have him in bed by 8pm and he listens to
stories on tape until he falls asleep, usually after about 1/2 hour.
Unless it's been a particularly active day, and then he goes to sleep
pretty much instantly. It works for us.
Best,
Lynn
> Good luck to you, and like I said before, this is what works for US, I knowMy kid is the same way. If he goes to bed late he still gets up early and
> there are so many of you that keep all different hours, so please don't
> flame me for stating what works for us.
then it is hell for all of us, all day. Also, my husband and I are still
very romantic w/each other and we like to have the evenings to ourselves.
Our son has his own bed but crawls into ours in the middle of the night
whenever he feels like it. We have him in bed by 8pm and he listens to
stories on tape until he falls asleep, usually after about 1/2 hour.
Unless it's been a particularly active day, and then he goes to sleep
pretty much instantly. It works for us.
Best,
Lynn
Sarah Carothers
Pat wrote:
<I think there are always signs if you just stop and look for them. >
::standing and cheering::: ABSOLUTELY! GO PAT!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<I think there are always signs if you just stop and look for them. >
::standing and cheering::: ABSOLUTELY! GO PAT!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brynn
Pat,
My kids are 11 and 6 1/2. I can SO relate with the night time thing being a
battle. There have been SO many nights that my husband and I have looked at
each other, after trying to get the kids to sleep at some ridiculous time,
say 8:30 or something and just said "what the heck is wrong with us". It was
like we were putting unnecessary stress on ourselves. In the summer our
schedule totally changes. We are usually out in the garden or playing, or
drumming by the fire until at least 9:30. The nights that we aren't may be
one of those nights that the kids go to bed early. When I say that a regimen
in the evening can be important, I am not talking about every single night.
I used to obsess like that, but not anymore. What I am basically talking
about it just quieting down. I know a woman that has put her son to bed at
7:30 every single night. I, for the life of me, do not understand that, and
my children would NEVER have that. I had to toss a lot of routines out the
window when we started homeschooling. That was about six years ago. I went
from one extreme, perfectly clean house, nice schedule, DINNER TIME, (yes, I
said dinner time), to either turning into a raging lunatic or just accepting
that our home is WELL USED and lived in, and loved. I can't remember when
the last time was I vacuumed two days in a row!
As far as routine, we have a few things that are routine. Stories before
bed(whether bed is at 9:00 or 11:30), quiet time for our son, etc.. I agree
on what you said about if things are going smoothly and certain limits are
okay with the kids as opposed to them feeling controlled, then there is no
reason to change. I think one of THE most important thing I have ever
learned during our homeschooling life is that our life always changes. There
may be a few months where we are basically hibernating and staying home a
lot, then-next thing you know, we are running all over the place several
times/week for different activities.
My husband and I were talking after we ate dinner last night, that it would
be possible to have quiet time to yourself even if the kids were up in a
larger house than ours (an most are larger than ours :-) ) Our house is
quite small. Our son is 11, and I can see how when he is a little older his
demands and needs will be so different. I don't know what that is going to
bring, and it may bring me saying "go to sleep when you feel like you need
to" just as you are trying out. Things just change. When we find that things
we are trying to make happen are being met with a lot of resistance, we sit
back and re-evaluate what we are trying to do.
I'm rambling on and on here and I've got to be out the door for a homeschool
meeting in 30 minutes and I have about 3 hours worth of things to do.
Take care!
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My kids are 11 and 6 1/2. I can SO relate with the night time thing being a
battle. There have been SO many nights that my husband and I have looked at
each other, after trying to get the kids to sleep at some ridiculous time,
say 8:30 or something and just said "what the heck is wrong with us". It was
like we were putting unnecessary stress on ourselves. In the summer our
schedule totally changes. We are usually out in the garden or playing, or
drumming by the fire until at least 9:30. The nights that we aren't may be
one of those nights that the kids go to bed early. When I say that a regimen
in the evening can be important, I am not talking about every single night.
I used to obsess like that, but not anymore. What I am basically talking
about it just quieting down. I know a woman that has put her son to bed at
7:30 every single night. I, for the life of me, do not understand that, and
my children would NEVER have that. I had to toss a lot of routines out the
window when we started homeschooling. That was about six years ago. I went
from one extreme, perfectly clean house, nice schedule, DINNER TIME, (yes, I
said dinner time), to either turning into a raging lunatic or just accepting
that our home is WELL USED and lived in, and loved. I can't remember when
the last time was I vacuumed two days in a row!
As far as routine, we have a few things that are routine. Stories before
bed(whether bed is at 9:00 or 11:30), quiet time for our son, etc.. I agree
on what you said about if things are going smoothly and certain limits are
okay with the kids as opposed to them feeling controlled, then there is no
reason to change. I think one of THE most important thing I have ever
learned during our homeschooling life is that our life always changes. There
may be a few months where we are basically hibernating and staying home a
lot, then-next thing you know, we are running all over the place several
times/week for different activities.
My husband and I were talking after we ate dinner last night, that it would
be possible to have quiet time to yourself even if the kids were up in a
larger house than ours (an most are larger than ours :-) ) Our house is
quite small. Our son is 11, and I can see how when he is a little older his
demands and needs will be so different. I don't know what that is going to
bring, and it may bring me saying "go to sleep when you feel like you need
to" just as you are trying out. Things just change. When we find that things
we are trying to make happen are being met with a lot of resistance, we sit
back and re-evaluate what we are trying to do.
I'm rambling on and on here and I've got to be out the door for a homeschool
meeting in 30 minutes and I have about 3 hours worth of things to do.
Take care!
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Moyer
+ I can't remember when
+ the last time was I vacuumed two days in a row!
I can't remember the last time I vacuumed two MONTHS in a row!!!!!!!!!! No,
my house isn't a huge pit---I'm actually rather a clean freak when it comes
to clutter or filth, but I don't consider a vacuumed carpet a priority. In
addition, my kids do virtually all the vacuuming as they make virtually all
the floor mess. I don't believe, however, that I've ever in my life
vacuumed two days in a row. :-)
Leslie
+ the last time was I vacuumed two days in a row!
I can't remember the last time I vacuumed two MONTHS in a row!!!!!!!!!! No,
my house isn't a huge pit---I'm actually rather a clean freak when it comes
to clutter or filth, but I don't consider a vacuumed carpet a priority. In
addition, my kids do virtually all the vacuuming as they make virtually all
the floor mess. I don't believe, however, that I've ever in my life
vacuumed two days in a row. :-)
Leslie
Brynn
Leslie,
I used to vacuum twice a day! That's what I mean by being obsessive and
learning flexibility! That was back in about '94 though. I've come a long
way!
I do need to get better about following through with making the kids pick up
things they've got out before I start really feeling like Cinderella and get
angry.
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I used to vacuum twice a day! That's what I mean by being obsessive and
learning flexibility! That was back in about '94 though. I've come a long
way!
I do need to get better about following through with making the kids pick up
things they've got out before I start really feeling like Cinderella and get
angry.
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]