Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Santa and unschooling
Kolleen
>Something I've been wondering.Hi Karin,
>How does Santa fit in with unschooling?
>How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
>What age, if any, should this belief stop?
>
>My kids do believe in Santa. They are 8 & 10.
>I am beginning to squirm.
>I would love to hear how other's have handled this, and still managed to
>maintain some dignity for their kids.
>I'm beginning to wonder if we have handled this the wrong way.
>My thinking has changed a lot since we've started unschooling, including
>my thoughts about Santa.
>
>Karin
In our family, we never told the kid that Santa was real. We always
talked about the 'spirit of Santa' and I always read him the great
newspaper editorial 'Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus' each year. It
goes along with the spirit of Santa, which I beleive exists.
We also talk about the toymaker (St. Nick?) that used to fix toys and
give them out. Actually, I'm butchering this story - my son's father
tells it better. Its a true story.
Although, when my son and I lived in a great NY upstate town, Ithaca, we
wandered over to the Commons area one saturday afternoon. He was three
years old at the time.
There was Santa walking around. He looked at me and said 'See mom, I TOLD
you Santa was real' and he walked over to him, they sat down and they had
a great conversation. My son asked him what kind of year he was having,
where were the reindeer etc. Then he helped Santa hand out candy canes
for some time and they parted.
Now that he's 5, other parents get pretty mad at me when he tells their
kids 'there is no santa, the parents PAY for the gifts.. so don't forget
to thank your parents!'.
I feel okay that I never lied to him. And yes, we do talk about the
magical aspects of people who believe in something with the heart.
merry and happy to one and all,
kolleen
Helen Hegener
At 9:43 PM -0700 12/18/01, Karin wrote:
I do myself.
Perhaps it's time to share a favorite old classic. My kids especially
loved it because my mother's name is Virginia, and they liked to
imagine that she might have asked the question answered by Francis P.
Church over 100 years ago:
http://www.barricksinsurance.com/virginia.html
Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus
Editorial printed in the New York Sun in 1897.
We take pleasure in answering thus prominently the communication
below, expressing at the same time our great gratification that its
faithful author is numbered among the friends of The Sun:
Dear Editor---
I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no
Santa Claus. Papa says, "If you see it in The Sun, it's so." Please
tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?
Virginia O'Hanlon
Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by
the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they
see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by
their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or
children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere
insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world
about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the
whole of truth and knowledge.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love
and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and
give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would
be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as
if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then,
no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should
have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with
which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies.
You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on
Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa
Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus,
but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real
things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see.
Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but
that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or
imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.
You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside,
but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest
man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever
lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push
aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory
beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is
nothing else real and abiding.
No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand
years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will
continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>How many here have kids who believe in Santa?I have five kids, ages 15 through 28, who still believe in Santa, as
>What age, if any, should this belief stop?
I do myself.
Perhaps it's time to share a favorite old classic. My kids especially
loved it because my mother's name is Virginia, and they liked to
imagine that she might have asked the question answered by Francis P.
Church over 100 years ago:
http://www.barricksinsurance.com/virginia.html
Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus
Editorial printed in the New York Sun in 1897.
We take pleasure in answering thus prominently the communication
below, expressing at the same time our great gratification that its
faithful author is numbered among the friends of The Sun:
Dear Editor---
I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no
Santa Claus. Papa says, "If you see it in The Sun, it's so." Please
tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?
Virginia O'Hanlon
Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by
the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they
see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by
their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or
children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere
insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world
about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the
whole of truth and knowledge.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love
and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and
give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would
be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as
if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then,
no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should
have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with
which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies.
You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on
Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa
Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus,
but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real
things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see.
Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but
that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or
imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.
You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside,
but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest
man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever
lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push
aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory
beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is
nothing else real and abiding.
No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand
years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will
continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karin
Something I've been wondering.
How does Santa fit in with unschooling?
How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
What age, if any, should this belief stop?
My kids do believe in Santa. They are 8 & 10.
I am beginning to squirm.
I would love to hear how other's have handled this, and still managed to maintain some dignity for their kids.
I'm beginning to wonder if we have handled this the wrong way.
My thinking has changed a lot since we've started unschooling, including my thoughts about Santa.
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How does Santa fit in with unschooling?
How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
What age, if any, should this belief stop?
My kids do believe in Santa. They are 8 & 10.
I am beginning to squirm.
I would love to hear how other's have handled this, and still managed to maintain some dignity for their kids.
I'm beginning to wonder if we have handled this the wrong way.
My thinking has changed a lot since we've started unschooling, including my thoughts about Santa.
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
Thanks for sharing that story Helen. I've never even heard of it before. I've been hiding out in the back woods, I guess.
Maybe I'll share it with my kids, too.
Karin
becoming a believer
Maybe I'll share it with my kids, too.
Karin
becoming a believer
On Tuesday, December 18, Helen wrote:
>I have five kids, ages 15 through 28, who still believe in Santa, as
>I do myself.
>Perhaps it's time to share a favorite old classic. My kids especially
>loved it because my mother's name is Virginia, and they liked to
>imagine that she might have asked the question answered by Francis P.
>Church over 100 years ago:
http://www.barricksinsurance.com/virginia.html
>Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
Mine figured it out on their own. My youngest just this past year
apparently. He told his big sisters that he knew there was no Santa
but that he didn't want to tell me because he didn't want to spoil my
fun.
Bridget
apparently. He told his big sisters that he knew there was no Santa
but that he didn't want to tell me because he didn't want to spoil my
fun.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Karin" <curtkar@h...> wrote:
> Something I've been wondering.
> How does Santa fit in with unschooling?
> How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
> What age, if any, should this belief stop?
>
> My kids do believe in Santa. They are 8 & 10.
> I am beginning to squirm.
> I would love to hear how other's have handled this, and still
managed to maintain some dignity for their kids.
> I'm beginning to wonder if we have handled this the wrong way.
> My thinking has changed a lot since we've started unschooling,
including my thoughts about Santa.
>
> Karin
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
A great book om Santa is "The Polar Experss". My husband has taught me a lot
about allowing children the magic of Christmas and the spirit of it. I used
to think it was lying. . . now his excitement has enthused all of us with the
spirit of Christmas.
lovemary
I cannot judge my own path and SELF, having the knowledge that I have chosen
to come here to experience these specific issues and grow, learn, and
Remember Who I Am.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
about allowing children the magic of Christmas and the spirit of it. I used
to think it was lying. . . now his excitement has enthused all of us with the
spirit of Christmas.
lovemary
I cannot judge my own path and SELF, having the knowledge that I have chosen
to come here to experience these specific issues and grow, learn, and
Remember Who I Am.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbmatlock
Emily (5 yo) cuddled up two nights ago and sweetly asked if Santa was
real. I shot a look at dh and ds, who shrugged, so I told her our
take, how Santa was the spirit of giving, not a physical person,
yadda yadda. Sean went through the same rite of passage at 7, so now
we are all cheerfully back to believing!
Anybody else always cry at the last scene in Miracle on 34th St?
Karen
real. I shot a look at dh and ds, who shrugged, so I told her our
take, how Santa was the spirit of giving, not a physical person,
yadda yadda. Sean went through the same rite of passage at 7, so now
we are all cheerfully back to believing!
Anybody else always cry at the last scene in Miracle on 34th St?
Karen
Lynda
YES! We are working on our second video. We wore the first one out!
Lynda
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: kbmatlock <kbmatlock@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:06 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Santa and unschooling
> Emily (5 yo) cuddled up two nights ago and sweetly asked if Santa was
> real. I shot a look at dh and ds, who shrugged, so I told her our
> take, how Santa was the spirit of giving, not a physical person,
> yadda yadda. Sean went through the same rite of passage at 7, so now
> we are all cheerfully back to believing!
>
> Anybody else always cry at the last scene in Miracle on 34th St?
>
> Karen
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
Karin
Thanks to all of you responding about Santa. I love reading all your opinions and personal feelings regarding kids and believing.
One of the reasons I'm getting a little uneasy is because as the boys get older, their list gets more elaborate and expensive!
Here is an example of my kids Christmas list word for word:
Dear Santa,
Here is my Christmas list:
40 gb hardrive
2 sticks 256 mg of ram
Computer Case with motherboard with pentium 1 ghz processor
CD burner
a 5 1/4" & 3 1/2" built in floppy drive
a 3D graphics card with 10 mega bytes
10 packs of Harry Potter cards
a camera
a mini-video camera
razor scooter
This is my 8yo list.
I told them that was a very tall order for Santa and ds would be lucky to get one or two items on his list.
This is getting out of hand! <g>
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of the reasons I'm getting a little uneasy is because as the boys get older, their list gets more elaborate and expensive!
Here is an example of my kids Christmas list word for word:
Dear Santa,
Here is my Christmas list:
40 gb hardrive
2 sticks 256 mg of ram
Computer Case with motherboard with pentium 1 ghz processor
CD burner
a 5 1/4" & 3 1/2" built in floppy drive
a 3D graphics card with 10 mega bytes
10 packs of Harry Potter cards
a camera
a mini-video camera
razor scooter
This is my 8yo list.
I told them that was a very tall order for Santa and ds would be lucky to get one or two items on his list.
This is getting out of hand! <g>
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elsa Haas
Our son (at two and a half) is already starting to get, from total
strangers, the routine that goes, "Are you a good boy? Because Santa's
coming, you know. If you're good, he's going to bring you lots of toys."
I refuse to give anybody this power over him - or let them give us (his
parents) this power. When people ask whether he's a "good boy" (in Christmas
season or out), I say, "Yes, he's good. All children are good. There are no
bad children." This usually throws 'em for a loop.
It's even worse in Spain, where I lived for nine years, only there it's, "If
you're good, los Reyes (the Kings, sort of what we know as the Three Wise
Men) will bring you gifts."
I want our son to know it's us who buy him gifts, from the start. He can
believe in Santa the same way he believes he is a fireman battling a fire
when he puts a toy helmet on his head and waves around a toy snake. I don't
think that ruins the magic.
I've always wondered what people think little kids in families where the
parents can't afford toys or are too drunk to remember it's Christmas must
think, when they don't get any toys. These kids must suspect they've been
bad, right? What do the good kids in the middle class families think of the
poor kids who get fewer toys than they do? What do the ones who get toys
think of the Jewish, Muslim, etc., kids who don't get a visit from Santa?
Why do people believe kids have to be bribed into being good? Is that really
being good, anyway? Isn't it being a kind of mercenary?
On a related note, it eats me up inside to hear people sending their kids
off to school, or leaving them at the babysitter's, with the good old
all-purpose admonition, "Be good, now." It's kind of a useless thing to say,
isn't it? Awfully vague. I prefer specifics.
Elsa Haas
-----Original Message-----
From: Karin [mailto:curtkar@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Santa and unschooling
Something I've been wondering.
How does Santa fit in with unschooling?
How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
What age, if any, should this belief stop?
My kids do believe in Santa. They are 8 & 10.
I am beginning to squirm.
I would love to hear how other's have handled this, and still managed to
maintain some dignity for their kids.
I'm beginning to wonder if we have handled this the wrong way.
My thinking has changed a lot since we've started unschooling, including
my thoughts about Santa.
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
strangers, the routine that goes, "Are you a good boy? Because Santa's
coming, you know. If you're good, he's going to bring you lots of toys."
I refuse to give anybody this power over him - or let them give us (his
parents) this power. When people ask whether he's a "good boy" (in Christmas
season or out), I say, "Yes, he's good. All children are good. There are no
bad children." This usually throws 'em for a loop.
It's even worse in Spain, where I lived for nine years, only there it's, "If
you're good, los Reyes (the Kings, sort of what we know as the Three Wise
Men) will bring you gifts."
I want our son to know it's us who buy him gifts, from the start. He can
believe in Santa the same way he believes he is a fireman battling a fire
when he puts a toy helmet on his head and waves around a toy snake. I don't
think that ruins the magic.
I've always wondered what people think little kids in families where the
parents can't afford toys or are too drunk to remember it's Christmas must
think, when they don't get any toys. These kids must suspect they've been
bad, right? What do the good kids in the middle class families think of the
poor kids who get fewer toys than they do? What do the ones who get toys
think of the Jewish, Muslim, etc., kids who don't get a visit from Santa?
Why do people believe kids have to be bribed into being good? Is that really
being good, anyway? Isn't it being a kind of mercenary?
On a related note, it eats me up inside to hear people sending their kids
off to school, or leaving them at the babysitter's, with the good old
all-purpose admonition, "Be good, now." It's kind of a useless thing to say,
isn't it? Awfully vague. I prefer specifics.
Elsa Haas
-----Original Message-----
From: Karin [mailto:curtkar@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Santa and unschooling
Something I've been wondering.
How does Santa fit in with unschooling?
How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
What age, if any, should this belief stop?
My kids do believe in Santa. They are 8 & 10.
I am beginning to squirm.
I would love to hear how other's have handled this, and still managed to
maintain some dignity for their kids.
I'm beginning to wonder if we have handled this the wrong way.
My thinking has changed a lot since we've started unschooling, including
my thoughts about Santa.
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elsa Haas
Anybody who has had experience with breast cancer or can recommend some good
web sites, books or groups, please contact me off-list.
Elsa Haas
ElsaHaas@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
web sites, books or groups, please contact me off-list.
Elsa Haas
ElsaHaas@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
My all time favorite Christmas Book is Santa's Twin by Dean Koontz.
And if you like it, I recommend Mr. Murder which is where the
beginnings of it came from.
Bridget
And if you like it, I recommend Mr. Murder which is where the
beginnings of it came from.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., lite2yu@a... wrote:
> A great book om Santa is "The Polar Experss". My husband has taught
me a lot
> about allowing children the magic of Christmas and the spirit of
it. I used
> to think it was lying. . . now his excitement has enthused all of
us with the
> spirit of Christmas.
>
rumpleteasermom
I have the opposite problem. My kids all know money is very tight
right now. They won't ask for anything!
Bridget
right now. They won't ask for anything!
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Karin" <curtkar@h...> wrote:
> Thanks to all of you responding about Santa. I love reading all
your opinions and personal feelings regarding kids and believing.
> One of the reasons I'm getting a little uneasy is because as the
boys get older, their list gets more elaborate and expensive!
> Here is an example of my kids Christmas list word for word:
> > Karin
>
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "rumpleteasermom"
<rumpleteasermom@j...> wrote:
Sorry for not thinking to ay that the first time!
Bridget
<rumpleteasermom@j...> wrote:
> My all time favorite Christmas Book is Santa's Twin by DeanKoontz.
> And if you like it, I recommend Mr. Murder which is where theSanta's Twin is a good read for kidlets but Mr. Murder is NOT!
> beginnings of it came from.
>
> Bridget
>
Sorry for not thinking to ay that the first time!
Bridget
Diane
When my son was a baby, we were around a group who would ask at the nursery
(where he and I often were), "Was he/she *good*?" when they picked up their
children. I started right then telling him "You're always, ALWAYS a good boy."
From there I progressed to "I always ALWAYS love you." and then a description of
WHEN I love him--I love you when you're mad, I love you when you're happy, I
love you when I'm grumpy, etc. outlining the good and bad feelings and
happenings we've had in our day.
:-) Diane
Elsa Haas wrote:
(where he and I often were), "Was he/she *good*?" when they picked up their
children. I started right then telling him "You're always, ALWAYS a good boy."
From there I progressed to "I always ALWAYS love you." and then a description of
WHEN I love him--I love you when you're mad, I love you when you're happy, I
love you when I'm grumpy, etc. outlining the good and bad feelings and
happenings we've had in our day.
:-) Diane
Elsa Haas wrote:
> Our son (at two and a half) is already starting to get, from total
> strangers, the routine that goes, "Are you a good boy? Because Santa's
> coming, you know. If you're good, he's going to bring you lots of toys."
Donna B
Hi..
My 13 yr old knows the truth, and my 11 yr old just told me this year that he does, too. (I think he might have probably known last year, too, but didn't want to ruin it for me. <G>) My 6 yr old still wholeheartedly believes in Santa, and I'm SO glad. To me, Santa is a spirit of the season (though not to replace our Christian views on the real reason for Christmas) and 'being Santa' is something they enjoy every year.
We didn't tell our older kids about Santa's mythical status until they asked -- if they were happy believing, it was fine with us. I don't believe that they are harmed by us 'lying' to them (and I use that word lightly, as I've seen it referred to that lately by a few offline who don't think we should tell kids about Santa) nor do I think that they need to grow up as fast as many kids do anymore.
When the 6 yo questions, we'll talk. The older two don't want to blow it for her, and when she asks, we'll be sure she doesn't blow it for our toddler either. It's a temporary thing, and I look forward to it each year :)
D
My 13 yr old knows the truth, and my 11 yr old just told me this year that he does, too. (I think he might have probably known last year, too, but didn't want to ruin it for me. <G>) My 6 yr old still wholeheartedly believes in Santa, and I'm SO glad. To me, Santa is a spirit of the season (though not to replace our Christian views on the real reason for Christmas) and 'being Santa' is something they enjoy every year.
We didn't tell our older kids about Santa's mythical status until they asked -- if they were happy believing, it was fine with us. I don't believe that they are harmed by us 'lying' to them (and I use that word lightly, as I've seen it referred to that lately by a few offline who don't think we should tell kids about Santa) nor do I think that they need to grow up as fast as many kids do anymore.
When the 6 yo questions, we'll talk. The older two don't want to blow it for her, and when she asks, we'll be sure she doesn't blow it for our toddler either. It's a temporary thing, and I look forward to it each year :)
D
----- Original Message -----
From: Karin
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:43 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Santa and unschooling
Something I've been wondering.
How does Santa fit in with unschooling?
How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
What age, if any, should this belief stop?
My kids do believe in Santa. They are 8 & 10.
I am beginning to squirm.
I would love to hear how other's have handled this, and still managed to maintain some dignity for their kids.
I'm beginning to wonder if we have handled this the wrong way.
My thinking has changed a lot since we've started unschooling, including my thoughts about Santa.
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Donna B
Helen, thank you for sharing this!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Helen Hegener
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:41 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus
At 9:43 PM -0700 12/18/01, Karin wrote:
>How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
>What age, if any, should this belief stop?
I have five kids, ages 15 through 28, who still believe in Santa, as
I do myself.
Perhaps it's time to share a favorite old classic. My kids especially
loved it because my mother's name is Virginia, and they liked to
imagine that she might have asked the question answered by Francis P.
Church over 100 years ago:
http://www.barricksinsurance.com/virginia.html
Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus
Editorial printed in the New York Sun in 1897.
We take pleasure in answering thus prominently the communication
below, expressing at the same time our great gratification that its
faithful author is numbered among the friends of The Sun:
Dear Editor---
I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no
Santa Claus. Papa says, "If you see it in The Sun, it's so." Please
tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?
Virginia O'Hanlon
Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by
the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they
see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by
their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or
children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere
insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world
about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the
whole of truth and knowledge.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love
and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and
give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would
be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as
if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then,
no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should
have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with
which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies.
You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on
Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa
Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus,
but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real
things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see.
Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but
that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or
imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.
You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside,
but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest
man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever
lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push
aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory
beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is
nothing else real and abiding.
No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand
years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will
continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
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Donna B
LOL -- the few times I've left my kids with a sitter, I've said "Be good." Why not? Kids aren't 'bad,' but they can do bad things -- I'd prefer they not do a bad (bad, wrong, etc...semantics) thing while not in the company of their parent, where we can deal with it the way we feel appropriate. I don't feel I'm defining their personality in any way when I ask that they behave appropriately -- I'd bet this is the same way many others mean it when they say it. I have older kids though, (as well as young ones) so I think it might make a difference when you're saying it to someone who actually knows more about what is right and wrong, as opposed to a small child who doesn't.
----- Original Message -----
From: Elsa Haas
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Santa and unschooling
Our son (at two and a half) is already starting to get, from total
strangers, the routine that goes, "Are you a good boy? Because Santa's
coming, you know. If you're good, he's going to bring you lots of toys."
I refuse to give anybody this power over him - or let them give us (his
parents) this power. When people ask whether he's a "good boy" (in Christmas
season or out), I say, "Yes, he's good. All children are good. There are no
bad children." This usually throws 'em for a loop.
It's even worse in Spain, where I lived for nine years, only there it's, "If
you're good, los Reyes (the Kings, sort of what we know as the Three Wise
Men) will bring you gifts."
I want our son to know it's us who buy him gifts, from the start. He can
believe in Santa the same way he believes he is a fireman battling a fire
when he puts a toy helmet on his head and waves around a toy snake. I don't
think that ruins the magic.
I've always wondered what people think little kids in families where the
parents can't afford toys or are too drunk to remember it's Christmas must
think, when they don't get any toys. These kids must suspect they've been
bad, right? What do the good kids in the middle class families think of the
poor kids who get fewer toys than they do? What do the ones who get toys
think of the Jewish, Muslim, etc., kids who don't get a visit from Santa?
Why do people believe kids have to be bribed into being good? Is that really
being good, anyway? Isn't it being a kind of mercenary?
On a related note, it eats me up inside to hear people sending their kids
off to school, or leaving them at the babysitter's, with the good old
all-purpose admonition, "Be good, now." It's kind of a useless thing to say,
isn't it? Awfully vague. I prefer specifics.
Elsa Haas
-----Original Message-----
From: Karin [mailto:curtkar@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Santa and unschooling
Something I've been wondering.
How does Santa fit in with unschooling?
How many here have kids who believe in Santa?
What age, if any, should this belief stop?
My kids do believe in Santa. They are 8 & 10.
I am beginning to squirm.
I would love to hear how other's have handled this, and still managed to
maintain some dignity for their kids.
I'm beginning to wonder if we have handled this the wrong way.
My thinking has changed a lot since we've started unschooling, including
my thoughts about Santa.
Karin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Lynda
Hip, hip, hooray!!! You go Brian!!!!! Another "un" grown up!!!! I love
all the "imaginary" things out there that I can enjoy and sometimes hide
behind. I like to
"play" Santa. How could I play Santa if everyone runs around saying Santa
doesn't exist??? We find families to help every year. We don't want their
thanks, so we send everything from "Santa." We do it because we enjoy it.
This year we adopted 3 elders and a family of 4. How sad if they didn't
believe in Santa! Hey, bet they do now <g>
If Santa and anonymous giving are what its all about, then I'm not going to
play <g>
Lynda
all the "imaginary" things out there that I can enjoy and sometimes hide
behind. I like to
"play" Santa. How could I play Santa if everyone runs around saying Santa
doesn't exist??? We find families to help every year. We don't want their
thanks, so we send everything from "Santa." We do it because we enjoy it.
This year we adopted 3 elders and a family of 4. How sad if they didn't
believe in Santa! Hey, bet they do now <g>
If Santa and anonymous giving are what its all about, then I'm not going to
play <g>
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <lite2yu@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:33 PM
Subject: Fwd: [Unschooling-dotcom] Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus
> My husband sent this to me today, after I sent him one of the Santa posts.
He
> and I went a few rounds on this when we first met. . . I have come to see
> his side of it. He asked me if it was too harsh. . .I said, you are
> passionate about it. . . nothing harsh about that. . . anyway, here it is.
>
> <<<<
> Every year there seems to be a debate on whether/when to tell children
that
> Santa Clause does not exist. What an asinine debate. For those who are to
> small minded not to see Santa Clause as he is, you deserve not to believe.
> Belief in Santa is a right that all children, of any age, have. How dare
> any of you try to tell me that there is no Santa. I'm 32 years old and
have
> known Santa since I was 6 months old. I was one of those lucky children to
> have his picture in the paper sitting on Santa's lap. I defended him
> throughout my junior/senior high school years when my other friends fell
by
> the wayside. And yes, he still visits my house every December. Santa
> Clause is more than a man in a red suit. He is the spirit of Christmas. He
> is giving to children everywhere, without ever asking anything in return.
> He is joy. He is charity. He is love. He is Christmas!!!! Those of you
> who deny his existence, deny Christmas exists as anything other than any
> other day. You deny that Christmas is special and unique. If you feel that
> way about Christmas, you have my pity. As for myself, I look forward to
> Santa's visit next Monday night/Tuesday morning. Have a happy holiday
> season.
> Bryan Ellis
> CWT/Pack n' Go Travel
> 1-800-WEPACKNGO (937-2256)
> 610-363-1566-
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
Sarah Carothers
Yes, that's a great movie. My favorite, though is the Muppet
Christmas Special, when Fozzie Bear invites all his buddies to his
mother's house for xmas. Meanwhile, his *mother* has plans of going
on a Hawaiian vacation :-) and is caught by the band of merrymakers
just as she was leaving her house. It's hilarious Muppet humor
complete with Ms. Piggie, Gonzo, Swedish Chef, The Turkey... ALL of
the lovable characters.
ah, memories..... anybody else miss Jim Henson? :(
Sarah
Christmas Special, when Fozzie Bear invites all his buddies to his
mother's house for xmas. Meanwhile, his *mother* has plans of going
on a Hawaiian vacation :-) and is caught by the band of merrymakers
just as she was leaving her house. It's hilarious Muppet humor
complete with Ms. Piggie, Gonzo, Swedish Chef, The Turkey... ALL of
the lovable characters.
ah, memories..... anybody else miss Jim Henson? :(
Sarah
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:38:07 -0800, Lynda wrote:
> YES! We are working on our second video. We wore the first one
>out!
>
>Lynda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]