Wondering through the threads
[email protected]
I've been noticing a lot of references to "average schooled x graders" here
lately and I'm wondering if folks are basing those assessments on real kids
they know, or if, as it seems to me, they're basing them on curriculum lists
or other ideas of what kids are "supposed" to be learning in schools.
I know now and have known over the years a heck of a lot of kids from almost
every conceivable educational setting. Unschooled kids, all their lives
homeschooled kids, schooled then homeschooled kids, public schooled kids in
many different cities and different levels of funding, privately schooled
kids, in and out of school kids. From my own experience, I think a lot of
people here are overestimating the abilities of the average schooled kid at
most ages.
Deborah in IL
lately and I'm wondering if folks are basing those assessments on real kids
they know, or if, as it seems to me, they're basing them on curriculum lists
or other ideas of what kids are "supposed" to be learning in schools.
I know now and have known over the years a heck of a lot of kids from almost
every conceivable educational setting. Unschooled kids, all their lives
homeschooled kids, schooled then homeschooled kids, public schooled kids in
many different cities and different levels of funding, privately schooled
kids, in and out of school kids. From my own experience, I think a lot of
people here are overestimating the abilities of the average schooled kid at
most ages.
Deborah in IL
Diane
I wonder, too, when I read that the "average" first or second grader is reading.
To me, first and second grade readers are not "reading."
:-) Diane
DACunefare@... wrote:
To me, first and second grade readers are not "reading."
:-) Diane
DACunefare@... wrote:
> I've been noticing a lot of references to "average schooled x graders" here
> lately and I'm wondering if folks are basing those assessments on real kids
> they know, or if, as it seems to me, they're basing them on curriculum lists
> or other ideas of what kids are "supposed" to be learning in schools.
>
> I know now and have known over the years a heck of a lot of kids from almost
> every conceivable educational setting. Unschooled kids, all their lives
> homeschooled kids, schooled then homeschooled kids, public schooled kids in
> many different cities and different levels of funding, privately schooled
> kids, in and out of school kids. From my own experience, I think a lot of
> people here are overestimating the abilities of the average schooled kid at
> most ages.
>
> Deborah in IL
Diane
This did not come out looking like what I was thinking when I wrote it. By "first
and second grade readers" I meant the books, not the kids.
:-) Diane
Diane wrote:
and second grade readers" I meant the books, not the kids.
:-) Diane
Diane wrote:
> I wonder, too, when I read that the "average" first or second grader is reading.
> To me, first and second grade readers are not "reading."
>
> :-) Diane
[email protected]
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:01:23 EST DACunefare@... writes:
the schools where I taught. There were differences, yes, but most of the
schools I worked at were whatever the designation is when you get a
certain percentage of kids getting free lunch.... one was a school for
homeless kids, one was in a nice area, but 20% of the kids were LEP
Dar
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> I've been noticing a lot of references to "average schooled x graders"here
> lately and I'm wondering if folks are basing those assessments on realkids
> they know, or if, as it seems to me, they're basing them on curriculumlists
> or other ideas of what kids are "supposed" to be learning in schools.I was once a public school teacher, so I usually base it on what I saw in
the schools where I taught. There were differences, yes, but most of the
schools I worked at were whatever the designation is when you get a
certain percentage of kids getting free lunch.... one was a school for
homeless kids, one was in a nice area, but 20% of the kids were LEP
>kid at
> From my own experience, I think a lot of
> people here are overestimating the abilities of the average schooled
> most ages.What specifically do you mean?
Dar
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Lynda
You do know that "they" (whom ever they is <g>) have dumbed down books? If
you buy a book published in the 90s and look at the RL and then buy the same
book with an original publishing date of say 1970 or before, the RL will not
be the same. That book that was originally published as being an RL of 3.5
to 4 will now be a RL of 5.3.
Lynda
you buy a book published in the 90s and look at the RL and then buy the same
book with an original publishing date of say 1970 or before, the RL will not
be the same. That book that was originally published as being an RL of 3.5
to 4 will now be a RL of 5.3.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane <cen46624@...>
> This did not come out looking like what I was thinking when I wrote it. By
"first
> and second grade readers" I meant the books, not the kids.
>
> :-) Diane
Tia Leschke
>We're with a public program, which means we have an online teacher
>I know now and have known over the years a heck of a lot of kids from almost
>every conceivable educational setting. Unschooled kids, all their lives
>homeschooled kids, schooled then homeschooled kids, public schooled kids in
>many different cities and different levels of funding, privately schooled
>kids, in and out of school kids. From my own experience, I think a lot of
>people here are overestimating the abilities of the average schooled kid at
>most ages.
available to help us if we want it. I asked ours once how many kids in the
average grade 4 class would be right at grade level in all subjects. His
answer was none of them. They would all be ahead or behind the curriculum
in at least one or two subjects. This teacher spent a lot of years in
regular classrooms before joining the distance ed program.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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Tia Leschke
At 10:09 PM 09/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
of grade one reading the Little House books. Others weren't even close to
reading independently.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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>I wonder, too, when I read that the "average" first or second grader isI worked in a school library at one time, and we had some kids at the end
>reading.
>To me, first and second grade readers are not "reading."
of grade one reading the Little House books. Others weren't even close to
reading independently.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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Tia Leschke
At 10:33 PM 09/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
reading.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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>This did not come out looking like what I was thinking when I wrote it. ByAh, I see. I think readers in general are so bad that they aren't really
>"first
>and second grade readers" I meant the books, not the kids.
reading.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
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Helen Hegener
At 11:20 PM -0800 12/9/01, Lynda wrote:
included the following:
When I went to Seattle to pick Mark up after Thanksgiving I found
some terrific old books in a little out of the way antique store! One
classic item is "How to Organize, Classify and Teach a Country
School," by W.M. Welch, A.M., published in 1886. Check this out, from
page 11:
"As soon as you have secured a school and made your contract, next
learn all you can in a general way of the district in which you are
to teach. Find out what you can of the character of the neighborhood,
the customs, religion, etc. of the people, and the peculiarities of
the different families. Find out who the leading families are, and
engage your boarding place with on of the best families, of course."
And this: "Visit your patrons, one and all. It will take a little of
your time, but you will more than save it in the long run. Get the
favorable opinion and friendly regard of your patrons once, and you
sow good words for yourself in every household. There is no better
way to secure parents' cooperation. Next, get a list of all the young
people of school age in your district from the sub-director and see
how many of them you can interest in school work. If you can get them
all to attend school during the winter term, you do a grand work. Do
not hesitate to try to have some attend who have not been to school
in a long time, or who are 'sowing wild oats,' etc. Get them into
your school and do all you can for them."
Fascinating little book - I also found a first edition (1916) copy of
Robert Service's "Rhymes of a Red Cross Man," which has some of my
favorites from Service, and several others, like "Star, The Story of
an Indian Pony," (copyright 1922 but this edition is from 1946). This
book includes a foreword from Lt. Gen. Nelson A. Miles: "Let
reservations be reasonable in size and subject to special rule and
government until the Indians are fitted to obey the ordinary laws of
the country which have been made to control educated and intelligent
white people." Zowie. Talk about an attitude, eh?
I need to scoot, getting ready to hit the dusty trail north, but
wanted to share that...
Helen
>You do know that "they" (whom ever they is <g>) have dumbed down books?That reminds me... I sent my sister a note this morning which
included the following:
When I went to Seattle to pick Mark up after Thanksgiving I found
some terrific old books in a little out of the way antique store! One
classic item is "How to Organize, Classify and Teach a Country
School," by W.M. Welch, A.M., published in 1886. Check this out, from
page 11:
"As soon as you have secured a school and made your contract, next
learn all you can in a general way of the district in which you are
to teach. Find out what you can of the character of the neighborhood,
the customs, religion, etc. of the people, and the peculiarities of
the different families. Find out who the leading families are, and
engage your boarding place with on of the best families, of course."
And this: "Visit your patrons, one and all. It will take a little of
your time, but you will more than save it in the long run. Get the
favorable opinion and friendly regard of your patrons once, and you
sow good words for yourself in every household. There is no better
way to secure parents' cooperation. Next, get a list of all the young
people of school age in your district from the sub-director and see
how many of them you can interest in school work. If you can get them
all to attend school during the winter term, you do a grand work. Do
not hesitate to try to have some attend who have not been to school
in a long time, or who are 'sowing wild oats,' etc. Get them into
your school and do all you can for them."
Fascinating little book - I also found a first edition (1916) copy of
Robert Service's "Rhymes of a Red Cross Man," which has some of my
favorites from Service, and several others, like "Star, The Story of
an Indian Pony," (copyright 1922 but this edition is from 1946). This
book includes a foreword from Lt. Gen. Nelson A. Miles: "Let
reservations be reasonable in size and subject to special rule and
government until the Indians are fitted to obey the ordinary laws of
the country which have been made to control educated and intelligent
white people." Zowie. Talk about an attitude, eh?
I need to scoot, getting ready to hit the dusty trail north, but
wanted to share that...
Helen
Lynda
Oh, I love old books! I have a first edition Louisa May Alcott (Under the
Lilacs) and a couple of other neat little books I found in garage sales and
one in a barn sale.
Lynda
Lilacs) and a couple of other neat little books I found in garage sales and
one in a barn sale.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:17 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Old books
> At 11:20 PM -0800 12/9/01, Lynda wrote:
> >You do know that "they" (whom ever they is <g>) have dumbed down books?
>
> That reminds me... I sent my sister a note this morning which
> included the following:
>
> When I went to Seattle to pick Mark up after Thanksgiving I found
> some terrific old books in a little out of the way antique store! One
> classic item is "How to Organize, Classify and Teach a Country
> School," by W.M. Welch, A.M., published in 1886. Check this out, from
> page 11:
>
> "As soon as you have secured a school and made your contract, next
> learn all you can in a general way of the district in which you are
> to teach. Find out what you can of the character of the neighborhood,
> the customs, religion, etc. of the people, and the peculiarities of
> the different families. Find out who the leading families are, and
> engage your boarding place with on of the best families, of course."
>
> And this: "Visit your patrons, one and all. It will take a little of
> your time, but you will more than save it in the long run. Get the
> favorable opinion and friendly regard of your patrons once, and you
> sow good words for yourself in every household. There is no better
> way to secure parents' cooperation. Next, get a list of all the young
> people of school age in your district from the sub-director and see
> how many of them you can interest in school work. If you can get them
> all to attend school during the winter term, you do a grand work. Do
> not hesitate to try to have some attend who have not been to school
> in a long time, or who are 'sowing wild oats,' etc. Get them into
> your school and do all you can for them."
>
> Fascinating little book - I also found a first edition (1916) copy of
> Robert Service's "Rhymes of a Red Cross Man," which has some of my
> favorites from Service, and several others, like "Star, The Story of
> an Indian Pony," (copyright 1922 but this edition is from 1946). This
> book includes a foreword from Lt. Gen. Nelson A. Miles: "Let
> reservations be reasonable in size and subject to special rule and
> government until the Indians are fitted to obey the ordinary laws of
> the country which have been made to control educated and intelligent
> white people." Zowie. Talk about an attitude, eh?
>
> I need to scoot, getting ready to hit the dusty trail north, but
> wanted to share that...
>
> Helen
>
>
>
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Carol Gilliam
I found a 1938 edition of The Yearling by Marjorie Kinnen Rqwlings. 4.00 at
an antique store.
Carol in NC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
an antique store.
Carol in NC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Helen Hegener
>It's actually spelled Lorna Doone in the original book. I have a very old andAh, this is one of my passions, too. I have hundreds of old books,
>tattered copy, part of my old book collection. This copy is from 1914 and is
>signed on the front page to Olga Rickert from Edith W. as a Christmas gift.
>It's by R.D. Blackmore and is titled "A Romance of Exmoor"
>Embarassingly enough, I have not yet read it. Hey, I'm a Bibliophilia and own
>many books I have yet to read.....not enough time in a day.....sigh.
and while I haven't nearly read them all (too little time, too many
books), I keep looking for them and lugging more home with me every
chance I get. I find a lot of good old books in my travels, and often
the inscriptions are as interesting as the books themselves. My
favorite is a large book of very romantic poetry published in the
1860's, which was apparently given to a girl by a fellow who wrote a
very poetic note along the lines of "Read every poem in this volume
and then double the feeling and then double it again and that still
won't come close to my feelings for you..."
So romantic - I've always wondered about those people, what happened
to them, did they live happily ever after?
Helen
zenmomma *
>>Ah, this is one of my passions, too. I have hundreds of old books,and while I haven't nearly read them all (too little time, too many
books), I keep looking for them and lugging more home with me every
chance I get. I find a lot of good old books in my travels, and often
the inscriptions are as interesting as the books themselves.>>
We too have many, many old books that we lug from state to state. <g> Many
were inherited and lots of them are actually too fragile for us to read. So
if a title interests us enough to read, we get it from the library.
One of my favorite inscriptions was to my father-in-law in 1937. It said
"with all great wishes for a long and adventurous life." He would have been
about 9 or 10 at the time and the book is Mysterious Island by Jules Verne.
My fil is a quiet man with gentle pastimes. I often wonder if he feels he's
had his adventures. I like to think that in his own way he has.
I also just found a book of Rudyard Kipling poetry with a 1928 Chrristmas
stamp inside. The owner is a Geo. Morris. My grandfather's name was Walter
Morris. I wonder how many generations this one goes back? Time to ask Dad,
the geneologist.
Life is good.
~Mary
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