Karen Matlock

Julie and Sheila: Fascinating discussion!

Julie: are there any websites (in the absence of meeting you irl!) you could
direct me to about your beliefs? I've sometimes wanted to get a red-letter
New Testament and then ignore everything in black and white! And I'd really
like to challenge Paul's writings...

Sheila: By "controlling," I'm sure people are thinking of many of the hsers
I know; strict discipline, not watching TV or movies, controlling how their
kids (and themselves) dress, act, talk, etc. They're conforming to a fairly
rigid set of external rules. It's not how I interpret the Bible, but it is
how I was raised. I'm gradually recovering, but it's a long road. You sound
like you've got it under control (no pun intended!) For various reasons, I'm
not able to be out of the fundamentalist influence as much as you are and I
have to deal with both worlds. I try to let the kids experience the world
without the filters I was raised with, though.

Here's an interesting article I found on the subject:
http://www.midnightbeach.com/hs/UniFrame.html?JumpBar="FAQ's.j.html"&Main="/
hs/can-a-christian-be-an-unschooler.htm" c&p if it doesn't wrap.



_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Helen Hegener

Hello list friends,

We finally got the Jan/Feb issue out the door to the printer, and
it's another terrific one. It's a good feeling to have all these many
parts and pieces - articles, columns, photos, ads, letters, etc. come
together into a nice, cohesive whole. Still just amazes me how we
keep managing to pull it off after almost 20 years at this - and we
still get just as big a kick out of wrapping up an issue as we did
back in 1984! <g>

Nice to see this list didn't implode. <eg> Also nice to see Sandra's
new list become such a warm, friendly community so quickly. I did get
one serious off-list grumble from someone who asked how I could let
such an awful thing happen. Geez. I dunno. Didn't much seem like it
was any of my business...

Had an interesting encounter yesterday while getting my brakes fixed
down at the local tire shop. Met a friend there waiting for his truck
to be fixed, we chatted a while, and then someone the friend knew
(but I didn't) stopped by to chat while her tires were being changed.
My friend introduced me as "editor of that national homeschooling
magazine" (most people in this small community know of us and HEM),
and then mentioned to me that his friend had homeschooled her kids
for a few years, but now they were back in the local alternative
school. The reaction from the poor lady was what was so interesting -
she started detailing why she *had* to put her kids in school
(because she needed to take a job), how much they were enjoying the
alternative school, but *of course* it would never be as wonderful as
homeschooling had been, etc., etc., etc. By the time she wound down
and my friend changed the subject I was beginning to wonder if I'd
unconsciously frowned at the word 'school' or something to invoke
such a defensive reaction.

Not the first time this has happened, of course. Just the most
recent. I'm sure many of you have run into this odd phenomenon of
people reacting as though homeschooling were something they felt
guilty about if they weren't doing it. I hadn't given the whole thing
much thought until yesterday, but this lady's intensity has been
making me wonder whether or not it's a good thing that homeschooling
is perceived as so... I dunno... wholesome? Unimpeachable? (Where's
that damn thesaurus when I need it? <g>)

On the one hand I think it's great that homeschooling has such a warm
fuzzy rep, but on the other hand I worry about this attitude
backfiring, people going overboard to justify their decision NOT to
homeschool, and weighing in even more heavily on the school - even
alternative school - side of the issue.

Still rolling that whole idea over in my head, but wanted to share it
here for whatever it's worth - and for whatever feedback/additional
fodder it stimulates. <eg>

Helen

Sarah Carothers

Hi Helen,
you wrote:
On the one hand I think it's great that homeschooling has such a warm
fuzzy rep, but on the other hand I worry about this attitude
backfiring, people going overboard to justify their decision NOT to
homeschool, and weighing in even more heavily on the school - even
alternative school - side of the issue.

Still rolling that whole idea over in my head, but wanted to share it
here for whatever it's worth - and for whatever feedback/additional
fodder it stimulates. <eg>

Helen


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
I've had similiar responses. I get the feeling that some people are angry with me/hsers and they have the impression that we believe we're holier than thou (not!)... that's what I fear they think. So, rather than weighing in more heavily on school, my worry is that they'll continue to search for something negative about us until they succeed. Now, there's plenty of negative stuff in my household.. we're far from perfect. But what I find these people doing irritates me... "oh, well, your dd is so good at gymnastics because she can practice it all day. If she had to go to school, she wouldn't be any better than my little Suzie-Q." @@
I don't seek this competition but I'm forever experiencing it with public school moms.
oh shoot... I'm not saying this very clearly.
Sarah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

Helen wrote:
> On the one hand I think it's great that homeschooling has such a
warm
> fuzzy rep, but on the other hand I worry about this attitude
> backfiring, people going overboard to justify their decision NOT to
> homeschool, and weighing in even more heavily on the school - even
> alternative school - side of the issue.
>
> Still rolling that whole idea over in my head, but wanted to share
it
> here for whatever it's worth - and for whatever feedback/additional
> fodder it stimulates. <eg>
>
> Helen

Oddly, I've never once had a public school family react this way to
me. I get lots of questions about how we do it and why we do it, but
I have never once had anyone feel the need to justify their decision
not to hs to me. I guess I just don't make people feel defensive. I
do often get whole life stories and info that I would just as soon
not know about people . . . there are days I feel like I must
have 'Therapist' tatooed on my head. I'm not one, but people sure do
open up to me in strange places!

Bridget

Bridget

Leslie

.....I guess I just don't make people feel defensive.
Bridget

Bridget.....


Bridget your too much. I don't read your posts as a rule but "rumpleteasemom" caught me off guard this morning <BG>
No, I'm sure you don't make people feel defensive.

....I do often get whole life stories and info that I would just as soon not know about people.....
I must have 'Therapist' tatooed on my head.

I guess you have a knack for bringing out the best in people!
Just tell them that you don't give a shit and I'm sure they'll cut their story short. Maybe your definitions of "defensiveness" and "therapist" need to be revised along with a few others you seem to misinterpret.

Leslie who couldn't resist temptatation on this unseasonably warm day for Toronto in December!!! almost 60f or 15c



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

All I can say is that my words have an effect here that they don't
have ANYWHERE else, including my other groups on-line.
And I'm not lying or misinterpreting when I say that NEVER has any
parent felt the need to defend his/her choice to send kidlets to
school in conversation with me. If it is happening to you
frequently, maybe it is really something in YOUR attitude that brings
it out. Gee, I wonder what it could be???

Bridget


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Leslie" <leslie@j...> wrote:
> .....I guess I just don't make people feel defensive.
> Bridget
>
> Bridget.....
>
>
> Bridget your too much. I don't read your posts as a rule
but "rumpleteasemom" caught me off guard this morning <BG>
> No, I'm sure you don't make people feel defensive.
>
> ....I do often get whole life stories and info that I would just as
soon not know about people.....
> I must have 'Therapist' tatooed on my head.
>
> I guess you have a knack for bringing out the best in people!
> Just tell them that you don't give a shit and I'm sure they'll cut
their story short. Maybe your definitions of "defensiveness"
and "therapist" need to be revised along with a few others you seem
to misinterpret.
>
> Leslie who couldn't resist temptatation on this unseasonably warm
day for Toronto in December!!! almost 60f or 15c
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sarah Carothers

Bridget,
I have this happen to me all the *time*! Parents seem to have this guilty look on their faces and say something to the effect of
a. I could never homeschool
b. My! How can you stand to be around your kids all the time? I'd go crazy!
c. oh. My neighbor does that. (and then abruptly walks away).

I believe this happens because, if you look at their responses, it shows
a. they think I have some abilitiy that they don't
b. they never should've had kids???
c. they live near somebody they don't especially like??? <g> (I won't expound on this one!)
Sarah


From: rumpleteasermom
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:51 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Checking back in <g>


All I can say is that my words have an effect here that they don't
have ANYWHERE else, including my other groups on-line.
And I'm not lying or misinterpreting when I say that NEVER has any
parent felt the need to defend his/her choice to send kidlets to
school in conversation with me. If it is happening to you
frequently, maybe it is really something in YOUR attitude that brings
it out. Gee, I wonder what it could be???

Bridget




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

I'm not sure I would consider any of those responses 'defensive'.
Although I can see how our responses to them (at least the first two)
could turn them defensive quite easily.

> a. I could never homeschool
Answer to pull out defensiveness: "Oh sure you could if you really
cared about your kids"
My answer: "Everyone has to find their own way, but you should
consider all the options. Let me know if you ever want more info."


> b. My! How can you stand to be around your kids all the time? I'd
go crazy!
Answer to pull out defensiveness: "Why? Don't you like them?"
My answers: "You know, we went through a period of adjustment too.
It was hard at first because we had gotten so used to being apart,
but we wouldn't change it back now for anything!"

I've heard other hsers say actually use those first answers and
elicit a defensive reaction. And I think they really didn't realize
the effect they had.

Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...>
wrote:
> Bridget,
> I have this happen to me all the *time*! Parents seem to have this
guilty look on their faces and say something to the effect of
> a. I could never homeschool
> b. My! How can you stand to be around your kids all the time? I'd
go crazy!
> c. oh. My neighbor does that. (and then abruptly walks away).
>
> I believe this happens because, if you look at their responses, it
shows
> a. they think I have some abilitiy that they don't
> b. they never should've had kids???
> c. they live near somebody they don't especially like??? <g> (I
won't expound on this one!)
> Sarah
>

>

groundhoggirl

Hi Bridget,

I tend to receive defensive reactions as well, although I would never
give responses such as those you gave below. Those are downright rude.
I think it must be my personality. I am very committed to unschooling.
It all seems so obvious to me. And, sometimes I have trouble
understanding how others don't take to it. My problem is that I get
very excited and I go on and on and on about how it works and how cool
it is. Lots of times I turn people off. I can see that. A friend of
mine, who understands me very well, once told me that I come on like a
freight train. I just need to learn how to relax. I am working on that
and, in the meantime, I try very hard to avoid talking about unschooling
to people who are not familiar with it. I have noticed I have the same
effect on people when I talk about other subjects I feel strongly about.

Mimi


On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 11:21 AM, rumpleteasermom wrote:

> I'm not sure I would consider any of those responses 'defensive'.
> Although I can see how our responses to them (at least the first two)
> could turn them defensive quite easily.
>
>> a. I could never homeschool
> Answer to pull out defensiveness: "Oh sure you could if you really
> cared about your kids"
> My answer: "Everyone has to find their own way, but you should
> consider all the options. Let me know if you ever want more info."
>
>
>> b. My! How can you stand to be around your kids all the time? I'd
> go crazy!
> Answer to pull out defensiveness: "Why? Don't you like them?"
> My answers: "You know, we went through a period of adjustment too.
> It was hard at first because we had gotten so used to being apart,
> but we wouldn't change it back now for anything!"
>
> I've heard other hsers say actually use those first answers and
> elicit a defensive reaction. And I think they really didn't realize
> the effect they had.
>
> Bridget
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...>
> wrote:
>> Bridget,
>> I have this happen to me all the *time*! Parents seem to have this
> guilty look on their faces and say something to the effect of
>> a. I could never homeschool
>> b. My! How can you stand to be around your kids all the time? I'd
> go crazy!
>> c. oh. My neighbor does that. (and then abruptly walks away).
>>
>> I believe this happens because, if you look at their responses, it
> shows
>> a. they think I have some abilitiy that they don't
>> b. they never should've had kids???
>> c. they live near somebody they don't especially like??? <g> (I
> won't expound on this one!)
>> Sarah
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Sarah Carothers

FWIW, Bridget, my responses to the questions were not included in my post. I speculated on why people respond in this way (and my speculations have nothing to do with how I actually answer these people).
I wrote: >> I believe this happens because, if you look at their responses, it
> shows
>> a. they think I have some abilitiy that they don't
>> b. they never should've had kids???
>> c. they live near somebody they don't especially like??? <g> (I
> won't expound on this one!)

Point a: I've had people ask if I have a degree in education because they are under the assumption that you have to have this in order to homeschool. I've had people honestly doubt their ability to homeschool because they don't have a college degree.
Point b: My experiences have included people who say they can't stand to be around their kids and how can I possibly stand to be around mine all the time. The responses have been as extreme as parents saying they hate holidays because it means the kids will be home.
Point c: A lot of people in my neck of the woods have only been around people homeschooling for religious reasons. Often, these homeschoolers have a unique way of living (I'm really trying not to step on toes here) and others find this way of living ... unusual and *in some instances*, almost cult-like. These are the times I was referring to when people just walk away.. they view these hsing families are freaky.
Sarah

----- Original Message -----
From: groundhoggirl
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Checking back in <g>


Hi Bridget,

I tend to receive defensive reactions as well, although I would never
give responses such as those you gave below. Those are downright rude.
I think it must be my personality. I am very committed to unschooling.
It all seems so obvious to me. And, sometimes I have trouble
understanding how others don't take to it. My problem is that I get
very excited and I go on and on and on about how it works and how cool
it is. Lots of times I turn people off. I can see that. A friend of
mine, who understands me very well, once told me that I come on like a
freight train. I just need to learn how to relax. I am working on that
and, in the meantime, I try very hard to avoid talking about unschooling
to people who are not familiar with it. I have noticed I have the same
effect on people when I talk about other subjects I feel strongly about.

Mimi


On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 11:21 AM, rumpleteasermom wrote:

> I'm not sure I would consider any of those responses 'defensive'.
> Although I can see how our responses to them (at least the first two)
> could turn them defensive quite easily.
>
>> a. I could never homeschool
> Answer to pull out defensiveness: "Oh sure you could if you really
> cared about your kids"
> My answer: "Everyone has to find their own way, but you should
> consider all the options. Let me know if you ever want more info."
>
>
>> b. My! How can you stand to be around your kids all the time? I'd
> go crazy!
> Answer to pull out defensiveness: "Why? Don't you like them?"
> My answers: "You know, we went through a period of adjustment too.
> It was hard at first because we had gotten so used to being apart,
> but we wouldn't change it back now for anything!"
>
> I've heard other hsers say actually use those first answers and
> elicit a defensive reaction. And I think they really didn't realize
> the effect they had.
>
> Bridget
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...>
> wrote:
>> Bridget,
>> I have this happen to me all the *time*! Parents seem to have this
> guilty look on their faces and say something to the effect of
>> a. I could never homeschool
>> b. My! How can you stand to be around your kids all the time? I'd
> go crazy!
>> c. oh. My neighbor does that. (and then abruptly walks away).
>>
>> I believe this happens because, if you look at their responses, it
> shows
>> a. they think I have some abilitiy that they don't
>> b. they never should've had kids???
>> c. they live near somebody they don't especially like??? <g> (I
> won't expound on this one!)
>> Sarah
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Leslie

.....All I can say is that my words have an effect here that they don't have ANYWHERE else, including my other groups on-line.....Bridget


Then I'm not the only one that notices? Where do you get your stamina? I wouldn't last a day with the kind of abuse you get from most of the members on this list? <bg>

Leslie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...>
wrote:
> FWIW, Bridget, my responses to the questions were not included in
my post. I speculated on why people respond in this way (and my
speculations have nothing to do with how I actually answer these
people).

Sarah, I'm sorry. You misunderstood, I'm not saying those were
things I thought YOU (singular specific) said, only that I have heard
others say thing like that and elicit very defensive responses.

Bridget

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Leslie" <leslie@j...> wrote:
> .....All I can say is that my words have an effect here that they
don't have ANYWHERE else, including my other groups on-
line.....Bridget
>
>
> Then I'm not the only one that notices? Where do you get your
stamina? I wouldn't last a day with the kind of abuse you get from
most of the members on this list? <bg>
>
> Leslie
>
>

What can I say, I guess I'm just a willful! Or perhaps stubborn and
persistent is more accurate.

Bridget

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/5/01 9:48:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
groundhoggirl@... writes:

<< A friend of
mine, who understands me very well, once told me that I come on like a
freight train. I just need to learn how to relax. I am working on that
and, in the meantime, I try very hard to avoid talking about unschooling
to people who are not familiar with it. I have noticed I have the same
effect on people when I talk about other subjects I feel strongly about.
>>

Always leaving them wanting more....really... that is what I do. My
answers tend to be short and simple. And I come across as happy
and competent with our life choices. Talk with a big smile on your
face. Throws them off all the time <g>

Kathy

groundhoggirl

On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 01:53 PM, Natrlmama@... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/5/01 9:48:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> groundhoggirl@... writes:
>
> << A friend of
> mine, who understands me very well, once told me that I come on like a
> freight train. I just need to learn how to relax. I am working on
> that
> and, in the meantime, I try very hard to avoid talking about
> unschooling
> to people who are not familiar with it. I have noticed I have the same
> effect on people when I talk about other subjects I feel strongly
> about.
>>>
>
> Always leaving them wanting more....really... that is what I do. My
> answers tend to be short and simple. And I come across as happy
> and competent with our life choices. Talk with a big smile on your
> face. Throws them off all the time <g>
>
> Kathy
>

> Good approach, Kathy. I'll try that next time. Thanks for the advice.

Mimi
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>