[email protected]

I tend to agree with Kolleen too. It's just that we seem to define
things a little differently. And here's the biggest thing right now;
Where do you draw the line between physical problems, emotional problems
and academic ones? How frustrated does one need to be before she tries
to find out if there is an underlying condition like dyslexia causing
some of the problems?

My daughter is on Prozac at 16. I'm not happy about it and I hope she
learns to cope without it but it really is what she needs right now -
unless you think it is okay for her to sleep 17 hours a day and sit
absolutely still for most of the other 7 and not care what's happening
around her (and no that is NOT an exaggeration). But I still have people
telling me about how often prozac is overprescribed.

And we are right back to where we started when I joined this list - - The
only people who can judge what really needs to be done and when something
really is a problem are those who are living with it. You can't tell me
what I HAVE to do to make my son happy, I can't tell you what to do for
yours, we can only offer to share what happened to us and hope that it
may be helpful to others, who have to judge that for themselves.

Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no
one to blame.
- Erica Jong

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:30:17 -0600 groundhoggirl
<groundhoggirl@...> writes:
> I tend to agree with Kolleen. I believe unschooling is a way of life.

> Now, of course, I definitely believe that there should be intervention
> when it comes physical problems, otherwise both my kids would be dead.

> I tend to think the same about emotional problems. But with regardto
> "academics", that's totally different, and I'm having a hard time
trying
> to find the words to explain what I'm feeling. I think that what I
want
> to say is that if unschooling had it's own language, the word
"academic"
> might not even exist. With regard to academics, I believe that
> unschooling is all about accepting people for exactly what they are and

> not try to change them to fit some kind of norm that society has
> created. So, therefore, IMHO, within the lifestyle of unschooling,
> problems with academics don't exist. Who is to determine what is a
> problem and what is not a problem anyway?
>
> Mimi
>

Kolleen

>Bridge writes:
>My daughter is on Prozac at 16. I'm not happy about it and I hope she
>learns to cope without it but it really is what she needs right now -
>unless you think it is okay for her to sleep 17 hours a day and sit
>absolutely still for most of the other 7 and not care what's happening
>around her (and no that is NOT an exaggeration). But I still have people
>telling me about how often prozac is overprescribed.

Kolleen

>>Bridget writes:
>>My daughter is on Prozac at 16. I'm not happy about it and I hope she
>>learns to cope without it but it really is what she needs right now -
>>unless you think it is okay for her to sleep 17 hours a day and sit
>>absolutely still for most of the other 7 and not care what's happening
>>around her (and no that is NOT an exaggeration). But I still have people
>>telling me about how often prozac is overprescribed.

Bridget, I had meant to respond to this and when I closed it to take care
of some stuff here, my email client sent it for me (how nice). Hence the
reason I sent it with nothing.


This must be a difficult situation for you and your family. I don't think
you are exaggerating.

Yes, prozac is overprescribed. It shouldn't have been developed at all.
But what does one do when the normal conventions of the Western world
dictate necessities for medications like that.

In a perfect world, there would be no poisons that alter our normal state
of being. There would be no vaccinations, no environmental issues. We
would give birth to children that only need GOOD air, food, water and
love to become a healthy adult.

We don't live in a perfect world. The violent acts that are put upon our
bodies, just by existing on an earth that suffers as much as its
inhabitants, are nearly impossible to avoid.

If I went into detail of the low-level virii and bacteria in our water
systems alone, it would take it so off-list that I dare not get specific.

We all are aware of the inescapability of dioxins, hormone-disrupters and
the breakdown of immune systems on a cellular level.

The need for 'band-aids' was borne out of a breakdown in humanity. In the
way we have allowed civilization to progress. Everything from education,
to pregnacy being treated as a disease, to substance that is passed off
as food (GMO, pesticides etc.)

Embracing unschooling as a lifestyle is a small part of turning the world
around. Hopefully, it will happen before the earth gives up on us. (I
have faith)

Until then, there will be 'medical' interventions that wouldn't happen if
we had ample opportunity to give our children the *true* substances their
bodies need.

Warm wishes,
Kolleen

Fetteroll

on 11/30/01 10:41 PM, Kolleen at Kolleen@... wrote:

> In a perfect world, there would be no poisons that alter our normal state
> of being. There would be no vaccinations, no environmental issues. We
> would give birth to children that only need GOOD air, food, water and
> love to become a healthy adult.

Biology isn't perfect either. And I think perfect and natural are mutually
exclusive. In a *natural* world -- which is the one evolution has shaped us
to live in -- those who aren't biologically fit, die.

Though it would be nice to be able to blame the ills of the body on external
chemistry, I think it does a great diservice to those who have genetically
different chemistry to assume they could be better if they'd just eat better
and avoid unnatural chemicals. (There's plenty of natural chemicals that are
poisonous too.)

In fact it's because biology isn't perfect that we're here at all. It's the
small chance genetic changes -- many neutral, many bad, a few good -- that
allow a species to exploit the environment in new ways. The bad changes die
off and the good gain an advantage in reproduction.

It's possible in a more "natural" society, many of the people who have
problems adapting to modern society would thrive. It's possible that many of
the people who adapt very well to modern society would be ill suited and
considered crazy.

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kolleen <Kolleen@m...> wrote:

>
> Until then, there will be 'medical' interventions that wouldn't
happen if
> we had ample opportunity to give our children the *true* substances
their
> bodies need.
>
> Warm wishes,
> Kolleen

Thanks for your kind words about Rachel. I've BTDT with anti-
depressents in the past. My problem is that if there is a rare and
unusual side-effect, I'm the rare and unusual person who gets it -
especially where neorological drugs are concerned. She seems to
tolerate them better than I but I am still trying to help her
understand how I survive without them. I avoid chemicals as much as
I can. Lowering exposure to cleaners, perfumes, additives, food
coloring, etc. helps me immensely. Knowing what foods set off what
reaction helps a lot too but takes a long tome to sort out.

Having been sick enough to be on handfuls of pills daily (post MI) I
now rebel against any extras. My doctor and I disagree on my
philosophy that the barest minimum of meds to keep me breathing is
the way to go. I don't NEED two accolate a day for 9 months out of
the year, I NEED them for the other 3. SHe wants me to take them all
the time, I refuse.

And just to tie this back to unschooling, I think that the "everyone
needs to be doing the same things at the same times" attitude is a
definite contribitung factor in overprescribing drugs. If you can't
cope with life at all or are desperately unhappy, it is time to
explore the options - including drugs - BUT If you are just having
trouble doing the stuff someone else thinks you should do, then you
need to explore life instead.

Bridget

Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:
> on 11/30/01 10:41 PM, Kolleen at Kolleen@m... wrote:
> >
> Biology isn't perfect either. And I think perfect and natural are
mutually
> exclusive. In a *natural* world -- which is the one evolution has
shaped us
> to live in -- those who aren't biologically fit, die.
>

Funny thing is I agree with this too. I think we have gone to far in
altering our environment but I also think that nature plays a part in
our problems too. But we all need to learn to take what we need to
feel good and leave the rest. The problem is with those who want to
say, "Well this worked for me, if it doesn't work for you, you must
be doing it wrong." instead of just offering up suggestions of what
might or might not work.

Bridget - who need 5 mgs of Coumadin a day but would not recommend it
for you!

Kolleen

>Joyce writes:
>Biology isn't perfect either. And I think perfect and natural are mutually
>exclusive. In a *natural* world -- which is the one evolution has shaped us
>to live in -- those who aren't biologically fit, die.

Biology in its unadulterated form is going to be as perfect as necessary.
Including natural selection in which those that aren't fit to survive,
won't.

>
>Though it would be nice to be able to blame the ills of the body on external
>chemistry, I think it does a great diservice to those who have genetically
>different chemistry to assume they could be better if they'd just eat better
>and avoid unnatural chemicals. (There's plenty of natural chemicals that are
>poisonous too.)

Just as 'unschooling' wasn't even conceived of at some point in society
(with the exception of a few) its hard to imagine that genetically
different chemistry can't be altered.
Finding available information on people like Dr. Schimmel(Vegatest before
Occidental Institute bought out his Vegatest and altered its purpose) and
other such modern day pioneers, is as difficult as it was to find a book
on today as the Family Bed was 75 years ago.

Me, I'm just a person. I haven't done anything that alters the future of
education or of medicine. BUT I have been lucky enough to have met many
who have, simply by being related to one of the pioneers.

The toxic information that sits on the RNA/DNA can be altered. Can be
repaired. Or rather it can be given what it needs to repair itself.

That information is on there for many reasons. And like I said in the
past we simply cannot just eat right anymore to balance our bodies. We as
a planet have become too many generations of such toxicitys to do that
anymore.

There was a few books that best explained it in english. I lent them out
(of course) and haven't been able to track them down, even on the
internet. One of them called 'Hidden Killers' about the low level virii
that is the root of a good number of neurological disorders and disease.
The other explained the non-invasive medicine that would hopefully be the
future '21st Century Medicine'.

Will the truth of how the body can cure itself, when given what it needs
on a cellular level ever surface to mainstream? It all depends on how our
future unfolds in regards to corporate ownership of the earth and its
inhabitants.

>
>In fact it's because biology isn't perfect that we're here at all. It's the
>small chance genetic changes -- many neutral, many bad, a few good -- that
>allow a species to exploit the environment in new ways. The bad changes die
>off and the good gain an advantage in reproduction.
>
>It's possible in a more "natural" society, many of the people who have
>problems adapting to modern society would thrive. It's possible that many of
>the people who adapt very well to modern society would be ill suited and
>considered crazy.
>

I'm not sure what you are saying in the above. I think its a situation
where so much of what I've learned and seen cannot be summed up in just a
few sentences.

And, of course, it goes against the core of what we all learned as far as
Medicine.

But after seeing people walk who were doomed to death, after seeing small
miracles like 'slow' children show light and laughter for the first time,
I'm barely scraping the surface of the neurological advances here...
after seeing it, I can beleive it.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT on this. Hence my feeble attempts at trying to explain
a science that just might be our future. I say might because it goes
against everything that is already in place. And what we would do with
all those people in the medical field (non-emergency) if they became
obsolete overnight. I'm a cynic when it comes to fighting the AMA, the
CDC or the big pharmaceutical companys.

How do you explain to a person who had gone to school for 12 years that
MOST, not all, of what they learned was wrong? How do you tell them that
unseen influences matter? Something that can't be studied under a
microscope actually exists? Making a book such as 'The Dancing WuLi
Masters, a laymans guide to quantum physics' required reading ISN'T going
to happen anytime soon.

My point is that thinking outside the norm like pioneers before us in
other fields, can hopefully allow those that do engage in this research
to continue.


FWIW, None of this research is done stateside. None of the people I
mentioned were treated stateside. Too many lobbyists in Washington.

Joyce, I'm not here to debate issues with you that I generally stay quiet
about. Unfortunately, learning, moods, abilitys, education, health all
seem to come together and sometimes become hard to distingush.

With regard and respect to differing opinions,
Kolleen