Kathy

Someone recently posted about feeling that many new or seemingly
moderate ideas are attacked as not being "pure" unschooling. Another
responded that since this is an unschooling list, that is to be
expected.

I say that unschooling is about freedom to do what works and to explore
new ideas. Unschooling is the opposite of adhering to any rigid
philosophy, even a supposed definition of "pure" unschooling. It's just
an oxymoron! Like "jumbo shrimp" or "honest politician".

So please don't anyone use the defense that they're just trying to
preserve the core or purity of the inherently diverse experience of
unschooling. Remember that many of us parents are unschooling ourselves
about the whole thing. Many of us have been in the system ourselves for
so long, that it takes a while to de-school, relax, and have fun. So
don't grade us on our progress please.

Kathy B.
One for all, and all for one.

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/30/2001 12:26:51 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
laurawilder82@... writes:


> Remember that many of us parents are unschooling ourselves
>

Well said.

Nance


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I like you Kathy!

Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------


Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no
one to blame.
- Erica Jong


On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:25:13 -0000 "Kathy" <laurawilder82@...>
writes:
> Someone recently posted about feeling that many new or seemingly
> moderate ideas are attacked as not being "pure" unschooling. Another
>
> responded that since this is an unschooling list, that is to be
> expected.
>
> I say that unschooling is about freedom to do what works and to
> explore
> new ideas. Unschooling is the opposite of adhering to any rigid
> philosophy, even a supposed definition of "pure" unschooling. It's
> just
> an oxymoron! Like "jumbo shrimp" or "honest politician".
>
> So please don't anyone use the defense that they're just trying to
> preserve the core or purity of the inherently diverse experience of
> unschooling. Remember that many of us parents are unschooling
> ourselves
> about the whole thing. Many of us have been in the system ourselves
> for
> so long, that it takes a while to de-school, relax, and have fun. So
>
> don't grade us on our progress please.
>
> Kathy B.
> One for all, and all for one.
>

[email protected]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:25:13 -0000 "Kathy" <laurawilder82@...>
writes:
> I say that unschooling is about freedom to do what works and to
explore
> new ideas.

I agree with your definition, with one small change:

I say that unschooling is about (children having) freedom to do what
works and to explore new ideas.


Dar
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Kathy

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:25:13 -0000 "Kathy" <laurawilder82@y...>
> writes:
> > I say that unschooling is about freedom to do what works and to
> explore
> > new ideas.
>
> I agree with your definition, with one small change:
>
> I say that unschooling is about (children having) freedom to do what
> works and to explore new ideas.
>
>
> Dar


Why would you limit the definition to children? We learn our entire
lives if we want to.

Kathy B.

[email protected]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:11:50 -0000 "Kathy" <laurawilder82@...>
writes:
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:25:13 -0000 "Kathy" <laurawilder82@y...>
writes:
> > > I say that unschooling is about freedom to do what works and to
explore
> > > new ideas.
> >
> > I agree with your definition, with one small change:
> >
> > I say that unschooling is about (children having) freedom to do
what
> > works and to explore new ideas.
> >
>
>
> Why would you limit the definition to children? We learn our entire
> lives if we want to.

Oh, I agree. My point is that I don't think unschooling is the freedom
for parents to do what they believe will works children.

Dar
________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:11:50 -0000 "Kathy" <laurawilder82@y...>
> writes:
> > --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:25:13 -0000 "Kathy" <laurawilder82@y...>
> writes:
> > > > I say that unschooling is about freedom to do what works and to
> explore
> > > > new ideas.
> > >
> > > I agree with your definition, with one small change:
> > >
> > > I say that unschooling is about (children having) freedom to do
> what
> > > works and to explore new ideas.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Why would you limit the definition to children? We learn our entire
> > lives if we want to.
>
> Oh, I agree. My point is that I don't think unschooling is the freedom
> for parents to do what they believe will works children.
>
> Dar


But isn't that exactly what you are doing? You are doing what you
believe works best fo your children. Even no planned "interference" is
still a plan. It is the freedom of parents that is also so essential.
Freedom from state control, freedom from social pressures to conform.
We are doing the unschooling, even if we do nothing, that is stil doing
something. Does that make any sense?

Kathy B.

Fetteroll

on 11/30/01 7:25 AM, Kathy at laurawilder82@... wrote:

> Unschooling is the opposite of adhering to any rigid
> philosophy, even a supposed definition of "pure" unschooling. It's just
> an oxymoron! Like "jumbo shrimp" or "honest politician".

No, unschooling isn't free form homeschooling. It isn't just absence of
curriculum. It's helping a child learn what he wants to learn, trusting that
what he wants to learn is what he needs.

There are many things that will help kids learn, but that doesn't make those
things unschooling. There are fun ways for a parent to imposing knowledge
that kids aren't asking for but that doesn't make that technique
unschooling.

If we must support any path that people find useful when it isn't
unschooling then there isn't much point in calling this an unschooling list.

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2001 13:39:39 -0000 Kathy B. writes:
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:

> > Oh, I agree. My point is that I don't think unschooling is the
freedom
> > for parents to do what they believe will works children.
> >
> > Dar
>
>
> But isn't that exactly what you are doing? You are doing what you
> believe works best fo your children. Even no planned "interference" is
> still a plan. It is the freedom of parents that is also so essential.
> Freedom from state control, freedom from social pressures to conform.
> We are doing the unschooling, even if we do nothing, that is stil doing

> something. Does that make any sense?
>
I'm having a deja vu moment, since I had this same discussion here a
month ago. This is a catch 22 situation the way you have it set up.

Actually, now that I think about it, being free should be the null
hypothesis, and things a parent would actually *do* would necessarily
interfere with that freedom... so the only decision is not to interfere,
and since I also chose not to interfere with the learning process of a
billion other children in the world, it's not really an issue.

The other thing is that I'm doing what I think works best *for all
children*. I think that when parents start saying that sure,
non-interference is fine for some kids, but *mine* needs this bribery or
coercion or whatever to learn... that's a sign that they're no longer
unschooling. There are no exceptions to freedom.

Dar
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Kathy

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:
> on 11/30/01 7:25 AM, Kathy at laurawilder82@y... wrote:
>
> > Unschooling is the opposite of adhering to any rigid
> > philosophy, even a supposed definition of "pure" unschooling. It's just
> > an oxymoron! Like "jumbo shrimp" or "honest politician".
>
> No, unschooling isn't free form homeschooling. It isn't just absence of
> curriculum. It's helping a child learn what he wants to learn, trusting that
> what he wants to learn is what he needs.
>
> There are many things that will help kids learn, but that doesn't make those
> things unschooling. There are fun ways for a parent to imposing knowledge
> that kids aren't asking for but that doesn't make that technique
> unschooling.
>
> If we must support any path that people find useful when it isn't
> unschooling then there isn't much point in calling this an unschooling list.
>
> Joyce
>
>

Actually I never meant that it was all about curricula or lack thereof.
I mean that unschooling is more like child lead learning (or adult self
led for us on ourselves) instead of any method or
dogma. If my kid chooses to do a project (that I'm working on for my
own interest) with me sometimes, that is unschooling too. If she wants
to read her choice of book that is unschooling. I mean that alot of
things that she chooses
can be unschooling even (gasp) a workbook or something once in a while.
Unschooling is my not judging her progress or testing or output. I
never said that unschooling was about a parent
imposing any knowledge or using any specific technique. But you might
admit that even the act of our answering our kid's questions will
reveal our bias on the topic. I mean the kind of
hidden bias, like if we think it's important to know or not. Maybe I
cannot phrase that correctly right now. We demonstrate our values in
how we live our lives. The kids will be affected by
that no matter what we say otherwise. As long as we don't judge them, I
think that can be unschooling.

The freedom I am talking about includes you. You don't have to support
any path someone takes. You are not there in their real life to know if
it works or not.

Do you have some really different definition of "pure" unschooling that
you would say is carved in stone and will work for every family at
every point in their lives? Some magic path the list
should follow? I don't. I don't think that's possible in the context of
what I believe unschooling to be.

Kathy B.

Tia Leschke

>
>
>So please don't anyone use the defense that they're just trying to
>preserve the core or purity of the inherently diverse experience of
>unschooling. Remember that many of us parents are unschooling ourselves
>about the whole thing. Many of us have been in the system ourselves for
>so long, that it takes a while to de-school, relax, and have fun. So
>don't grade us on our progress please.

I think a lot of us are on the road to unschooling. I know I am still,
even though I started out totally committed to the concept. But there *is*
a goal out there, and it's to trust our kids to make their own educational
decisions, with our help and support.

I think that it's fine to not be all the way there, but I don't think it's
fine to enlarge the definition of unschooling to include the things we do
that aren't unschooling. I don't beat myself up for panicking and
insisting that my son work on phonics when he was 12, but I don't call that
unschooling either. If he had *asked* for help with his reading, and I had
worked with him on phonics for as long as *he* felt it useful, then that
would have been unschooling.
Tia

Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy