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In a message dated 09/08/1999 8:42:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jhawthorne@... writes:

<<
It crosses my mind that there are many religious faiths in which submission
to
authority is a basic tenet of faith. I have wondered whether unschooling is
compatible with a faith which requires belief and reliance on a greater
authority.
It may be a difficult task to encourage freedom of thought and choice on the
one
hand and "unquestioning" obedience on the other.
>>
Interesting that this has just recently came up, because yesterday I had come
to the conclusion that it is very possible to be a Christian unschooler and in
fact, unschool faith and religious education. I have done no formal learning
with my dd (6) and she has a strong faith and a prayer life outside the one
that we share together. I believe that I have modeled my faith to my children
and like anything in our life that is important or interesting we have had
discussions about it. I have been delighted with this personal observation!
.
Kathy

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In a message dated 9/10/99 7:16:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Natrlmama@... writes:

<< I believe that I have modeled my faith to my children
and like anything in our life that is important or interesting we have had
discussions about it. I have been delighted with this personal observation!
>>

Same here. I view my relationship with God to be the perfect example of the
unschooling ideals. It's all about inspiration, freedom to explore, internal
motivation and ethics which are part of everything I do. As a Christian I'm
not bound by the status quo but to an eventual higher calling. Isn't that
what we are trying to help our kids to find by unschooling them?

LouisaM

Amy Aybar

<It crosses my mind that there are many religious faiths in which submission
to authority is a basic tenet of faith.>

I just don't think of my religion that way (Chrstianity). My religion is
about God's love and how he saved us from our sins. No conflict with
unschooling!!

Amy
Mom to Carlos (6) and Sasha (4)

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In a message dated 12/9/03 7:01:24 PM, marbleface@... writes:

<< But do you think religious people can be unschoolers? >>

Some I don't think can.

When a family's priorities include in the top five saving their children's
souls from hell, and obedience and discipline, I don't think they'll be able to
make natural learning work.

Some can. If they're interested in the uplifting messages of their religion
and in compassion and love, yes.

That's just my opinion, and people can say "I'm unschooling" just because
they don't care whether a kid does math first or reading, and they don't care if
the kid does the reading outside, or the math in the den instead of at the
kitchen table. That's some people's unschooling. It's not self-sustaining, and
it doesn't work the deep personal changes that (what I consider) "real"
unschooling does. I don't think flexibly scheduled structure is far enough removed
from structure.

Some people think structure is what separates them from the animals and makes
them more like God. If that's important to them, then it is, and they should
structure the heck out of everything within reach.

But they shouldn't do it on this list.

Sandra

Wife2Vegman

>
> In a message dated 12/9/03 7:01:24 PM,
> marbleface@... writes:
>
> << But do you think religious people can be
> unschoolers? >>
>

Were you directing this question just to Sandra (since
hers was the message you were responding to), or to
everyone?

Maybe the question should be can religion be
unschooled, and how?

I didn't used to be able to truly unschool because of
my religious legalism, although I thought I was.
While my children didn't have to do "school" for 6
hours a day like their friends, they did have a very
structured day with chore charts and bedtimes and
bookwork and such. I would build unit studies based
on their interests, and come up with activities and
books to read and field trips. And I could not
believe that math could be truly unschooled, so they
did have math workbooks they had to do. But if anyone
asked, I was an unschooler, especially compared to my
school-at-home friends.

Now unschooling means something much deeper to me,
and has allowed my religion to go to a deeper place as
well. Now it is all fused into the whole of my life.
My children are a part of it, and so they absorb it as
well.

I don't make them read their bibles or pray or go to
Sunday School, or even go to church if they don't want
to. But they see me doing these things, and hopefully
with sincerity and not out of a sense of duty, so ask
questions and we talk about it. The older two have
both gone in spurts where they will read their bibles
or offer to pray for someone who is ill or sad.

The older two usually want to go to church for the
social atmosphere where they can hang with their
friends, and the 5yo does have to go when we all go,
but he takes his toys or books and if he chooses I
stay out in the hallway with him where he can play
instead of go to class.

It took a lot of time to get to this place though.
Probably can go a lot farther, and will, by the end of
my lifetime.

Susan
wifetovegman


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I don't see why someone who believes in God and Jesus cannot unschool. I
personally have a very close prayerful relationship with God and so does my son,
but it was his choice not mine. My parents never forced me to be religious
either, it was my choice. Religion and spirituality will not work unless it is
a personal choice. How could someone think that they could force a belief
system on someone? Religion is the most personal thing there is, or at least
that is the way I have always seen it.

I have also always tried to expose him to all sides of political issues as
well. When we are in the car we listen to Rush Limbaugh some of the time and
our local Pacifica station some of the time. I don't think you can get more
extreme than both of those perspectives. lol The outcome right now is funny as
well, I prefer Pacifica and he prefers Rush. I think my son is way more
conservative than I am. In fact he has been known to refer to me as a Hippie. lol

I am new to unschooling, but now that I have written this I see that maybe I
am more of an unschooler than I thought a week ago. If I can allow my child
the choice about his relationship with God, then surly I can let him decide
when he wants to do Algebra. (Just a rambling thought. lol)

I hope this helps some of you who don't think you can be religious and
homeschool.

Laura M.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Watts

I am new to the group and new to unschooling, but this statement had me confused. My understanding of unschooling was it not the choice of when the child would do something, but instead of IF the child would decide it was something they wanted to do. Am I wrong in my thinking?

Michelle

lamoseley@... wrote:
If I can allow my child
the choice about his relationship with God, then surly I can let him decide
when he wants to do Algebra.

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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 12/10/03 8:40:35 AM, lamoseley@... writes:

<< I don't see why someone who believes in God and Jesus cannot unschool. >>

Nobody said they couldn't.

It's the religion that can get in the way.

<< Religion and spirituality will not work unless it is
a personal choice. How could someone think that they could force a belief
system on someone? >>

Is that a hypothetical question meaning you don't personally believe it
works? Or are you really in doubt that there are families which force belief
systems on their children?

(I could answer, but maybe you didn't really want an answer to "how could
someone think they could force...")

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>I am new to the group and new to unschooling, but this statement had me
>confused. My understanding of unschooling was it not the choice of when
>the child would do something, but instead of IF the child would decide
>it was something they wanted to do. Am I wrong in my thinking?

No. I was hoping the original poster actually meant if rather than when.
Then it would be unschooling.
Tia

J. Stauffer

>>>> Or are you really in doubt that there are families which force belief
> systems on their children?<<<<<
********************************************

We were watching a "Law and Order" rerun the other night. Parents had
divorced and Dad kidnapped the daughters and was caught many years later.
Girls swore up and down how much they loved their father and he swore how
much he loved them. During the course of the show, it became apparent that
the Dad never beat or threatened his children with violence....but that he
simply kept after them and kept after them from a very young age until they
no longer had the energy to argue and eventually came to believe that they
needed him to make all their decisions.

Dh and I sat there naming names of families in our local hs support group to
which this applied. It is disturbing to see it on television....It is
terrifying to see it in real life.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] unschooling and religion


>
> In a message dated 12/10/03 8:40:35 AM, lamoseley@... writes:
>
> << I don't see why someone who believes in God and Jesus cannot unschool.
>>
>
> Nobody said they couldn't.
>
> It's the religion that can get in the way.
>
> << Religion and spirituality will not work unless it is
> a personal choice. How could someone think that they could force a belief
> system on someone? >>
>
> Is that a hypothetical question meaning you don't personally believe it
> works?>
> (I could answer, but maybe you didn't really want an answer to "how could
> someone think they could force...")
>
> Sandra
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>

Tia Leschke

>
>We were watching a "Law and Order" rerun the other night. Parents had
>divorced and Dad kidnapped the daughters and was caught many years later.
>Girls swore up and down how much they loved their father and he swore how
>much he loved them. During the course of the show, it became apparent that
>the Dad never beat or threatened his children with violence....but that he
>simply kept after them and kept after them from a very young age until they
>no longer had the energy to argue and eventually came to believe that they
>needed him to make all their decisions.
>
>Dh and I sat there naming names of families in our local hs support group to
>which this applied. It is disturbing to see it on television....It is
>terrifying to see it in real life.

Describes my ex perfectly.
Tia

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(No. I was hoping the original poster actually meant if rather than when.
Then it would be unschooling.)

Sorry, should have said "if" rather than "when."

Laura M.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]