To whom do children belong?
[email protected]
Sandra Dodd wrote:
not enough money in the world to get me to lie to kids and say "You can't
have this because it's bad for you" if I don't believe it. There's not
enough money to get me to control other people's kids arbitrarily just
because the parents would like to do it but they want to go and do something
else for a while.<<
This resonates for me because one of the hardest struggles I have had since
beginning homeschooling has been the sheer number of Homeschooling (not
unschooling) families who do it BECAUSE they want that control.
"I don't want my child exposed to THAT book." "My child must do THIS math,
learn these Bible verses, and do these jobs before he can play." "I took my
child out of school because I didn't want him to be exposed to THOSE kinds of
people." (As a lesbian family, I think we're THOSE kinds of people.)
I'm fascinated by the parents who say that the only one who should have any
say about their kids is the parents, because they belong to me. Children are
often referred to as if they were objects. This seems to be true (in my
experience) of Fundamentalist Christian Homeschoolers, especially.
My son does not belong to me, except in that we belong to each other out of
love. There are certainly times when I have made decisions for him based on
safety, and there are people I would not leave him with because it would not
be safe, emotionally or physically. I trust Julian to make good decisions.
(Unfortunately, there are others in world who we cannot trust. When Julian
was little I fought to keep his otherwise excellent father from allowing his
mother unsupervised time with Julian, because she had a history of physically
abusing her children.)
I do not believe our children belong to us. I believe it's wrong to control
them for our own reasons. We have many more responsibilities to them than
they have to us. In a right relationship, our children will treat us with
love and respect (because that is what they have learned and experienced),
but I don't believe they OWE us anything.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>If I took money to watch other people's kids then I'd negotiate. Butthere's
not enough money in the world to get me to lie to kids and say "You can't
have this because it's bad for you" if I don't believe it. There's not
enough money to get me to control other people's kids arbitrarily just
because the parents would like to do it but they want to go and do something
else for a while.<<
This resonates for me because one of the hardest struggles I have had since
beginning homeschooling has been the sheer number of Homeschooling (not
unschooling) families who do it BECAUSE they want that control.
"I don't want my child exposed to THAT book." "My child must do THIS math,
learn these Bible verses, and do these jobs before he can play." "I took my
child out of school because I didn't want him to be exposed to THOSE kinds of
people." (As a lesbian family, I think we're THOSE kinds of people.)
I'm fascinated by the parents who say that the only one who should have any
say about their kids is the parents, because they belong to me. Children are
often referred to as if they were objects. This seems to be true (in my
experience) of Fundamentalist Christian Homeschoolers, especially.
My son does not belong to me, except in that we belong to each other out of
love. There are certainly times when I have made decisions for him based on
safety, and there are people I would not leave him with because it would not
be safe, emotionally or physically. I trust Julian to make good decisions.
(Unfortunately, there are others in world who we cannot trust. When Julian
was little I fought to keep his otherwise excellent father from allowing his
mother unsupervised time with Julian, because she had a history of physically
abusing her children.)
I do not believe our children belong to us. I believe it's wrong to control
them for our own reasons. We have many more responsibilities to them than
they have to us. In a right relationship, our children will treat us with
love and respect (because that is what they have learned and experienced),
but I don't believe they OWE us anything.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alan Moorehead
<<This resonates for me because one of the hardest struggles I have had
since
beginning homeschooling has been the sheer number of Homeschooling (not
unschooling) families who do it BECAUSE they want that control.
"I don't want my child exposed to THAT book." "My child must do THIS
math,
learn these Bible verses, and do these jobs before he can play." "I took
my
child out of school because I didn't want him to be exposed to THOSE
kinds of
people." (As a lesbian family, I think we're THOSE kinds of people.)>>
Kathryn,
What you wrote above is precisely why I do not call our family a
homeschooling family. We are an UNSCHOOLING family. I do not want to
be confused with those type of people you described. So many parents
seem to be homeschooling for precisely the opposite reason why we are
unschooling.
Mimi
KathrynJB@... wrote:
since
beginning homeschooling has been the sheer number of Homeschooling (not
unschooling) families who do it BECAUSE they want that control.
"I don't want my child exposed to THAT book." "My child must do THIS
math,
learn these Bible verses, and do these jobs before he can play." "I took
my
child out of school because I didn't want him to be exposed to THOSE
kinds of
people." (As a lesbian family, I think we're THOSE kinds of people.)>>
Kathryn,
What you wrote above is precisely why I do not call our family a
homeschooling family. We are an UNSCHOOLING family. I do not want to
be confused with those type of people you described. So many parents
seem to be homeschooling for precisely the opposite reason why we are
unschooling.
Mimi
KathrynJB@... wrote:
> Sandra Dodd wrote:ADVERTISEMENT
> >>If I took money to watch other people's kids then I'd negotiate.
> But
> there's
> not enough money in the world to get me to lie to kids and say "You
> can't
> have this because it's bad for you" if I don't believe it. There's
> not
> enough money to get me to control other people's kids arbitrarily just
>
> because the parents would like to do it but they want to go and do
> something
> else for a while.<<
>
> This resonates for me because one of the hardest struggles I have had
> since
> beginning homeschooling has been the sheer number of Homeschooling
> (not
> unschooling) families who do it BECAUSE they want that control.
>
> "I don't want my child exposed to THAT book." "My child must do THIS
> math,
> learn these Bible verses, and do these jobs before he can play." "I
> took my
> child out of school because I didn't want him to be exposed to THOSE
> kinds of
> people." (As a lesbian family, I think we're THOSE kinds of people.)
>
> I'm fascinated by the parents who say that the only one who should
> have any
> say about their kids is the parents, because they belong to me.
> Children are
> often referred to as if they were objects. This seems to be true (in
> my
> experience) of Fundamentalist Christian Homeschoolers, especially.
>
> My son does not belong to me, except in that we belong to each other
> out of
> love. There are certainly times when I have made decisions for him
> based on
> safety, and there are people I would not leave him with because it
> would not
> be safe, emotionally or physically. I trust Julian to make good
> decisions.
> (Unfortunately, there are others in world who we cannot trust. When
> Julian
> was little I fought to keep his otherwise excellent father from
> allowing his
> mother unsupervised time with Julian, because she had a history of
> physically
> abusing her children.)
>
> I do not believe our children belong to us. I believe it's wrong to
> control
> them for our own reasons. We have many more responsibilities to them
> than
> they have to us. In a right relationship, our children will treat us
> with
> love and respect (because that is what they have learned and
> experienced),
> but I don't believe they OWE us anything.
>
> Kathryn
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[email protected]
> I do not believe our children belong to us. I believe it's wrong toI loved this Kathryn!
> control
> them for our own reasons. We have many more responsibilities to
> them than
> they have to us. In a right relationship, our children will treat us
> with
> love and respect (because that is what they have learned and
> experienced),
> but I don't believe they OWE us anything.
> Kathryn
Deb L
[email protected]
Those of us who are Christians also have a Biblical mandate to "train
up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not
depart from it". How can we "train up" a child, if we never require
anything of him?
Sheila
up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not
depart from it". How can we "train up" a child, if we never require
anything of him?
Sheila
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., ddzimlew@j... wrote:
>
> > I do not believe our children belong to us. I believe it's wrong
to
> > control
> > them for our own reasons. We have many more responsibilities to
> > them than
> > they have to us. In a right relationship, our children will treat
us
> > with
> > love and respect (because that is what they have learned and
> > experienced),
> > but I don't believe they OWE us anything.
> > Kathryn
>
> I loved this Kathryn!
> Deb L
[email protected]
<< How can we "train up" a child, if we never require
anything of him? >>
By talking to them about what you're doing and when and how and why.
By treating them like people instead of "children" (in the worst ownership
ways).
I'm guessing you're already hooked up with the Christian unschooling
site/community. Their explanations might be more to your liking.
Forcing people to do things is very often training them NOT to do it when
you're not there forcing them to do it. Behavior, reading, eating, anything.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
anything of him? >>
By talking to them about what you're doing and when and how and why.
By treating them like people instead of "children" (in the worst ownership
ways).
I'm guessing you're already hooked up with the Christian unschooling
site/community. Their explanations might be more to your liking.
Forcing people to do things is very often training them NOT to do it when
you're not there forcing them to do it. Behavior, reading, eating, anything.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Tia Leschke
At 03:14 PM 11/21/01 +0000, you wrote:
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
>Those of us who are Christians also have a Biblical mandate to "trainBy example. Works better anyway.
>up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not
>depart from it". How can we "train up" a child, if we never require
>anything of him?
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Lynda
Lead by example? ""Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of
the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in
purity" (1 Tim. 4:12).
Lynda
the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in
purity" (1 Tim. 4:12).
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <sheran@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:14 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: To whom do children belong?
> Those of us who are Christians also have a Biblical mandate to "train
> up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not
> depart from it". How can we "train up" a child, if we never require
> anything of him?
> Sheila
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., ddzimlew@j... wrote:
> >
> > > I do not believe our children belong to us. I believe it's wrong
> to
> > > control
> > > them for our own reasons. We have many more responsibilities to
> > > them than
> > > they have to us. In a right relationship, our children will treat
> us
> > > with
> > > love and respect (because that is what they have learned and
> > > experienced),
> > > but I don't believe they OWE us anything.
> > > Kathryn
> >
> > I loved this Kathryn!
> > Deb L
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Leslie
<By example. Works better anyway.
Tia>
Good point! I always have time to read your posts,short and sweet, and right on the money as usual.
Leslie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia>
Good point! I always have time to read your posts,short and sweet, and right on the money as usual.
Leslie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
At 06:35 PM 11/21/01 -0500, you wrote:
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
><By example. Works better anyway.Uh oh! Sounds like I'm getting a fan club. <g> Thanks Leslie.
>Tia>
>
>Good point! I always have time to read your posts,short and sweet, and
>right on the money as usual.
>Leslie
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
meghan anderson
Great Answer Tia! I like it and agree wholeheartedly!
Meghan
<<By example. Works better anyway.
Tia>>
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Meghan
<<By example. Works better anyway.
Tia>>
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