unschooling special needs
Lisa Wilson
Hi folks. I am unschooling my daughter age 4 yrs. She has so called 'special
educational needs' but in my opinion this label only matters if they are in
school. I was pretty confident in my philosophy with the fact that because
of her differences she needs less teaching/structure not more - my instinct
tells me that I really need to flow with her in what ever she is into and
let her develop at her own pace. Everyone I speak to about it though
(family, health professionals) are advising me that because of her 'sen' she
needs more structure and needs to be pushed more. Perhaps I should have
mentioned that she has 'developmental delay' or 'learning difficulties'
which ever you want to call it. Trouble is that we were already involved
with the pre-school teaching service for sen before we decided to unschool.
We recently put her in a nursery and was happy to leave her there for a few
more months as she likes it so much - it consisted of 2 hrs 3 times a week
of 'free play'. Thing is now the pre-school teaching service have got
involved and have come up with a plan to try and 'tame her impulsiveness'
and get her to 'follow routine' and 'follow instructions' and to curb her
'obsessive play with one object'. Now I'm not worried enough to take her out
at the moment, I'll see how it goes, because knowing her as I do, she just
will not comply with their little schemes! I have very little support and
having a 7 mth old baby I welcome a couple of hours to catch up with myself.
(Does that sound selfish?) Does anyone unschool their special kids? I could
really use some assurance that I'm going in the right direction, any
anecdotes that unschooling is the best way to bring out their true
potential. I have a feeling that the more they try to tame her the wilder
she'll get. I guess I'll be taking her out of nursery sooner rather than
later.
Thoughts on my ramblings?
Liese
educational needs' but in my opinion this label only matters if they are in
school. I was pretty confident in my philosophy with the fact that because
of her differences she needs less teaching/structure not more - my instinct
tells me that I really need to flow with her in what ever she is into and
let her develop at her own pace. Everyone I speak to about it though
(family, health professionals) are advising me that because of her 'sen' she
needs more structure and needs to be pushed more. Perhaps I should have
mentioned that she has 'developmental delay' or 'learning difficulties'
which ever you want to call it. Trouble is that we were already involved
with the pre-school teaching service for sen before we decided to unschool.
We recently put her in a nursery and was happy to leave her there for a few
more months as she likes it so much - it consisted of 2 hrs 3 times a week
of 'free play'. Thing is now the pre-school teaching service have got
involved and have come up with a plan to try and 'tame her impulsiveness'
and get her to 'follow routine' and 'follow instructions' and to curb her
'obsessive play with one object'. Now I'm not worried enough to take her out
at the moment, I'll see how it goes, because knowing her as I do, she just
will not comply with their little schemes! I have very little support and
having a 7 mth old baby I welcome a couple of hours to catch up with myself.
(Does that sound selfish?) Does anyone unschool their special kids? I could
really use some assurance that I'm going in the right direction, any
anecdotes that unschooling is the best way to bring out their true
potential. I have a feeling that the more they try to tame her the wilder
she'll get. I guess I'll be taking her out of nursery sooner rather than
later.
Thoughts on my ramblings?
Liese
[email protected]
find out all you can about your childs special needs. sound like you already
have instincts on how information is learned.
I would suggest if you have insurance to have some testing done privately,
and never rely on schools testing. Please beware that the special needs
in children can change before you know it, and then....you are stuck
trying to find help. I suggest to do it now with people you trust and are
willing to work with.
I am going through this myself. hindsight is always better.
Linda
have instincts on how information is learned.
I would suggest if you have insurance to have some testing done privately,
and never rely on schools testing. Please beware that the special needs
in children can change before you know it, and then....you are stuck
trying to find help. I suggest to do it now with people you trust and are
willing to work with.
I am going through this myself. hindsight is always better.
Linda
Tia Leschke
>Now I'm not worried enough to take her outNot to me. For the rest of your question, I can't offer any advice other
>at the moment, I'll see how it goes, because knowing her as I do, she just
>will not comply with their little schemes! I have very little support and
>having a 7 mth old baby I welcome a couple of hours to catch up with myself.
>(Does that sound selfish?)
than you're probably right to go with your instincts.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/01 4:38:46 AM, Ziggy.hindson@... writes:
<< I have a feeling that the more they try to tame her the wilder
she'll get. I guess I'll be taking her out of nursery sooner rather than
later. >>
Today could be better than later. She's building memories even at this
moment, and if they're giving her the message that she's not right and good
and normal and desirable, it will all have to be unlearned (if possible).
I'd get her out now if she were mine.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< I have a feeling that the more they try to tame her the wilder
she'll get. I guess I'll be taking her out of nursery sooner rather than
later. >>
Today could be better than later. She's building memories even at this
moment, and if they're giving her the message that she's not right and good
and normal and desirable, it will all have to be unlearned (if possible).
I'd get her out now if she were mine.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Lisa Wilson
Thankyou Sandra, I appreciate it.
Liese
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: 09 November 2001 18:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling special needs
In a message dated 11/9/01 4:38:46 AM, Ziggy.hindson@... writes:
<< I have a feeling that the more they try to tame her the wilder
she'll get. I guess I'll be taking her out of nursery sooner rather than
later. >>
Today could be better than later. She's building memories even at this
moment, and if they're giving her the message that she's not right and
good
and normal and desirable, it will all have to be unlearned (if possible).
I'd get her out now if she were mine.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Liese
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: 09 November 2001 18:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling special needs
In a message dated 11/9/01 4:38:46 AM, Ziggy.hindson@... writes:
<< I have a feeling that the more they try to tame her the wilder
she'll get. I guess I'll be taking her out of nursery sooner rather than
later. >>
Today could be better than later. She's building memories even at this
moment, and if they're giving her the message that she's not right and
good
and normal and desirable, it will all have to be unlearned (if possible).
I'd get her out now if she were mine.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Also, once she's labelled, they might try to insist that it's "in her best
>
>Today could be better than later. She's building memories even at this
>moment, and if they're giving her the message that she's not right and good
>and normal and desirable, it will all have to be unlearned (if possible).
>I'd get her out now if she were mine.
interest" to continue with their program. I don't know where you live or
what CPS is like there, but sometimes they get on their high horses and
insist that various labelled kids are better off in special programs and
that parents are neglecting their kids if they refuse. I'm not trying to
scare you so much as to make you wary. It might not even be a problem at
all where you live.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Allison Crilly
Hi Liese, sorry it took so long for me to respond, I'm a little behind in my mail.
I just started hsing my 8 year old son, took him out of school at the beginning of October (I also homeschooled him at 4, wish now that I hadn't put him back in school!) He has Tourette Syndrome and Sensory Integration Dysfunction, plus has been dx'd with a number of co-morbids to these conditions. Since taking him home, none of this has much effect on his daily life. He can discover his body at his own pace (SID can cause "developmental delays" but for my son, and I suspect for many kids, this has meant wildly fluctuating developmental progress, instead of an actual, falling behind delay. I strongly suspect now that most "delays" where not caused by neural damage, are simply a slower rate of progress, not an absence of progress.) His fine and gross motor skills have leaped ahead in only one month, because he doesn't have to spend most of his time at a desk or standing in line. He needs a huge amount of physical exploration time, and pretty intense physical exploration at that (wrestling, swinging and spinning for hours, throwing himself on the ground, in OT speak this is "vestibular and proprioceptive stimulation.") His "social defecits" are not nearly as glaring to me at home as they seemed to be to the school staff as well. He has opportunities to interact in more natural ways with people of different ages, and I now suspect that some of the social problems he's had came simply from trying to interact in a situation where nothing that he had learned up to then applied anymore, as well as the school staff attempts to keep children completely dependent on adults to resolve conflict (it was like a mantra in the school, "tell the other child you don't like that, if they don't listen, get an adult", teaching children that if at first you don't succeed, give up and get somebody more competent than yourself.)
The greatest gift of being at home is being able to redifine our family (I also have TS) as quirky, rather than neurologically disordered. TS is a genetic disorder, and in my opinion, there are as many positives as negatives involved with having it, TSer's tend to be very funny, creative, anarchic, and I think the best thing that could happen to both of us is not to have to pretend to be "normal" anymore.
I don't know what things are like in the States. I got the distinct impression that my son's school was quite happy to get rid of us. He wasn't labelled as "developmentally delayed" though. I don't know if the school will give you a hard time, but I would suggest not going any further with elementary school after pre-K. In my experience, once a child has been "identified" as needing service, they will stay on the special ed list, no matter how much progress they make, and staff will look far harder at that child for any sign of deviance from the norm, than they would with a neuro-typical student.
I'm a member of an HS group for parents of special needs kids (mostly kids with diagnosed neurological disorders) through Yahoo groups, called HS-plus. There are several parents on the list with dev. delayed children.
Hope this helps,
Allison
I just started hsing my 8 year old son, took him out of school at the beginning of October (I also homeschooled him at 4, wish now that I hadn't put him back in school!) He has Tourette Syndrome and Sensory Integration Dysfunction, plus has been dx'd with a number of co-morbids to these conditions. Since taking him home, none of this has much effect on his daily life. He can discover his body at his own pace (SID can cause "developmental delays" but for my son, and I suspect for many kids, this has meant wildly fluctuating developmental progress, instead of an actual, falling behind delay. I strongly suspect now that most "delays" where not caused by neural damage, are simply a slower rate of progress, not an absence of progress.) His fine and gross motor skills have leaped ahead in only one month, because he doesn't have to spend most of his time at a desk or standing in line. He needs a huge amount of physical exploration time, and pretty intense physical exploration at that (wrestling, swinging and spinning for hours, throwing himself on the ground, in OT speak this is "vestibular and proprioceptive stimulation.") His "social defecits" are not nearly as glaring to me at home as they seemed to be to the school staff as well. He has opportunities to interact in more natural ways with people of different ages, and I now suspect that some of the social problems he's had came simply from trying to interact in a situation where nothing that he had learned up to then applied anymore, as well as the school staff attempts to keep children completely dependent on adults to resolve conflict (it was like a mantra in the school, "tell the other child you don't like that, if they don't listen, get an adult", teaching children that if at first you don't succeed, give up and get somebody more competent than yourself.)
The greatest gift of being at home is being able to redifine our family (I also have TS) as quirky, rather than neurologically disordered. TS is a genetic disorder, and in my opinion, there are as many positives as negatives involved with having it, TSer's tend to be very funny, creative, anarchic, and I think the best thing that could happen to both of us is not to have to pretend to be "normal" anymore.
I don't know what things are like in the States. I got the distinct impression that my son's school was quite happy to get rid of us. He wasn't labelled as "developmentally delayed" though. I don't know if the school will give you a hard time, but I would suggest not going any further with elementary school after pre-K. In my experience, once a child has been "identified" as needing service, they will stay on the special ed list, no matter how much progress they make, and staff will look far harder at that child for any sign of deviance from the norm, than they would with a neuro-typical student.
I'm a member of an HS group for parents of special needs kids (mostly kids with diagnosed neurological disorders) through Yahoo groups, called HS-plus. There are several parents on the list with dev. delayed children.
Hope this helps,
Allison
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Wilson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 5:40 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling special needs
Hi folks. I am unschooling my daughter age 4 yrs. She has so called 'special
educational needs' but in my opinion this label only matters if they are in
school. I was pretty confident in my philosophy with the fact that because
of her differences she needs less teaching/structure not more - my instinct
tells me that I really need to flow with her in what ever she is into and
let her develop at her own pace. Everyone I speak to about it though
(family, health professionals) are advising me that because of her 'sen' she
needs more structure and needs to be pushed more. Perhaps I should have
mentioned that she has 'developmental delay' or 'learning difficulties'
which ever you want to call it. Trouble is that we were already involved
with the pre-school teaching service for sen before we decided to unschool.
We recently put her in a nursery and was happy to leave her there for a few
more months as she likes it so much - it consisted of 2 hrs 3 times a week
of 'free play'. Thing is now the pre-school teaching service have got
involved and have come up with a plan to try and 'tame her impulsiveness'
and get her to 'follow routine' and 'follow instructions' and to curb her
'obsessive play with one object'. Now I'm not worried enough to take her out
at the moment, I'll see how it goes, because knowing her as I do, she just
will not comply with their little schemes! I have very little support and
having a 7 mth old baby I welcome a couple of hours to catch up with myself.
(Does that sound selfish?) Does anyone unschool their special kids? I could
really use some assurance that I'm going in the right direction, any
anecdotes that unschooling is the best way to bring out their true
potential. I have a feeling that the more they try to tame her the wilder
she'll get. I guess I'll be taking her out of nursery sooner rather than
later.
Thoughts on my ramblings?
Liese
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> as well as the school staff attempts to keep children completely dependentWhy is that a problem?
> on adults to resolve conflict (it was like a mantra in the school, "tell
> the other child you don't like that, if they don't listen, get an adult",
> teaching children that if at first you don't succeed, give up and get
> somebody more competent than yourself.)
>
It's WAY better than telling the kids to solve it on their own, at school OR
at home.
It's the way it is in real life, too. If you ask your neighbor nicely to
change something and he tells you to get screwed, you should call another
adult (city someone, policeman, mediator, somebody), rather than just throw
dog shit in his yard (or whatever other hostile-neighbor activity).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/01 10:26:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
it in a bag, light it on fire, and put it on their porch. This is a fun
family activity....saw it on Martha Stewart. 'Course she used homemade
designer bags....
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> . If you ask your neighbor nicely toLol. No, throwing dog shit in the yard is a bad idea, you're supposed to put
> change something and he tells you to get screwed, you should call another
> adult (city someone, policeman, mediator, somebody), rather than just throw
> dog shit in his yard (or whatever other hostile-neighbor activity).
>
> Sandra
>
it in a bag, light it on fire, and put it on their porch. This is a fun
family activity....saw it on Martha Stewart. 'Course she used homemade
designer bags....
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tami Labig-Duquette
LMAO, I saw that episode too!
Indiana Tami
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Networking for Central Indiana unschoolers :)
http://communities.msn.com/ChildLedLearninginIndiana
Children Leading the Way!
http://[email protected]
http://[email protected]
----Original Message Follows----
From: brendaclaspell@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling special needs
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:05:41 EST
In a message dated 11/15/01 10:26:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
it in a bag, light it on fire, and put it on their porch. This is a fun
family activity....saw it on Martha Stewart. 'Course she used homemade
designer bags....
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Indiana Tami
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Networking for Central Indiana unschoolers :)
http://communities.msn.com/ChildLedLearninginIndiana
Children Leading the Way!
http://[email protected]
http://[email protected]
----Original Message Follows----
From: brendaclaspell@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling special needs
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:05:41 EST
In a message dated 11/15/01 10:26:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> . If you ask your neighbor nicely tothrow
> change something and he tells you to get screwed, you should call another
> adult (city someone, policeman, mediator, somebody), rather than just
> dog shit in his yard (or whatever other hostile-neighbor activity).Lol. No, throwing dog shit in the yard is a bad idea, you're supposed to put
>
> Sandra
>
it in a bag, light it on fire, and put it on their porch. This is a fun
family activity....saw it on Martha Stewart. 'Course she used homemade
designer bags....
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Allison Crilly
If you had read the entire post, instead of simply looking for something to disagree with, maybe you would have the answer to your own question.
It was a problem for me, how about that. It was a problem that staff told my son not to try to solve any problem on his own.
The problem is that, in your pleasant analogy, the next logical step was not throwing dog shit, but trying to find a different way to approach the problem with the neighbor, before calling the police, mediator, etc. The problem was telling kids that they are not to try to solve problems on their own, period. They were told "say no, don't do anything else, don't try to reason, don't try to conciliate, don't try to compromise, just say no then walk away."
Like I said, if you had bothered to read the post, you would have seen that.
Allison
It was a problem for me, how about that. It was a problem that staff told my son not to try to solve any problem on his own.
The problem is that, in your pleasant analogy, the next logical step was not throwing dog shit, but trying to find a different way to approach the problem with the neighbor, before calling the police, mediator, etc. The problem was telling kids that they are not to try to solve problems on their own, period. They were told "say no, don't do anything else, don't try to reason, don't try to conciliate, don't try to compromise, just say no then walk away."
Like I said, if you had bothered to read the post, you would have seen that.
Allison
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling special needs
> as well as the school staff attempts to keep children completely dependent
> on adults to resolve conflict (it was like a mantra in the school, "tell
> the other child you don't like that, if they don't listen, get an adult",
> teaching children that if at first you don't succeed, give up and get
> somebody more competent than yourself.)
>
Why is that a problem?
It's WAY better than telling the kids to solve it on their own, at school OR
at home.
It's the way it is in real life, too. If you ask your neighbor nicely to
change something and he tells you to get screwed, you should call another
adult (city someone, policeman, mediator, somebody), rather than just throw
dog shit in his yard (or whatever other hostile-neighbor activity).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/16/01 9:52:55 AM Mountain Standard Time,
AllisonC@... writes:
Kids too often resort to violence and insult and destruction of property.
Parents will sue. Or, worst case, kids get hurt or killed. Children aren't
at school to have to deal with bullies on their own. If you think that's
what school's for, maybe you could find a neighborhood bully for your
homeschooled child to practice on.
I have always told my kids, who have never been to school, first try talking
about it. If that doesn't help, get a grownup. Hitting is the last resort,
NEVER before getting the intervention of an adult or older child.
I know there are other families that tell their children to defend themselves
and their property physically and the parents will back them up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AllisonC@... writes:
> Like I said, if you had bothered to read the post, you would have seen that.I read every word.
>
Kids too often resort to violence and insult and destruction of property.
Parents will sue. Or, worst case, kids get hurt or killed. Children aren't
at school to have to deal with bullies on their own. If you think that's
what school's for, maybe you could find a neighborhood bully for your
homeschooled child to practice on.
I have always told my kids, who have never been to school, first try talking
about it. If that doesn't help, get a grownup. Hitting is the last resort,
NEVER before getting the intervention of an adult or older child.
I know there are other families that tell their children to defend themselves
and their property physically and the parents will back them up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Allison Crilly
I'll be taking the advice of others and just ignoring you from now on, because you are way more interested in proving a point than in having a discussion. You have completely missed what I was saying. I was talking about ANY dispute, at all, not physical disputes (children at this school are not allowed to touch, not even to hug or hold hands. Children get time outs for holding hands. Does this sound normal or ok? I don't think it sounds normal to any reasonable person.)
Allison
Allison
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling special needs
In a message dated 11/16/01 9:52:55 AM Mountain Standard Time,
AllisonC@... writes:
> Like I said, if you had bothered to read the post, you would have seen that.
>
I read every word.
Kids too often resort to violence and insult and destruction of property.
Parents will sue. Or, worst case, kids get hurt or killed. Children aren't
at school to have to deal with bullies on their own. If you think that's
what school's for, maybe you could find a neighborhood bully for your
homeschooled child to practice on.
I have always told my kids, who have never been to school, first try talking
about it. If that doesn't help, get a grownup. Hitting is the last resort,
NEVER before getting the intervention of an adult or older child.
I know there are other families that tell their children to defend themselves
and their property physically and the parents will back them up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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