Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1554
Wendy Silver
I am no expert on Israel, but I think part of the reason that the US
supported an Israeli state after World War Two, was because of the
extermination policies, the loss of all assets, land, families,etc. A
teeny, tiny fraction of land that used to be a larger Israel was supported
by the US at the begging of some guy, Jake somebody??
I am not advocating if it was right or not, but there is an interesting
history at www.csmoniter.com It appears at the top right hand corner.
supported an Israeli state after World War Two, was because of the
extermination policies, the loss of all assets, land, families,etc. A
teeny, tiny fraction of land that used to be a larger Israel was supported
by the US at the begging of some guy, Jake somebody??
I am not advocating if it was right or not, but there is an interesting
history at www.csmoniter.com It appears at the top right hand corner.
Wendy Silver
Well Bridget,
I guess I am a contradiction on such topics, because I cannot make sense
out of them. On one hand, I understand the outrage and urge to protest
(having done it myself on more trivial issues), on the other, I think many
people are more into the energetic high of protesting itself; lose sight of
the problem and self serving motives take over-maybe not intentionally.
I do wonder why many protests begin on college campuses in the US. It has
crossed my mind that this is not coincidental, but an intentional target by
whoever.
Maybe I am way off, but lots of protests don't even involve students. Are
there laws that make college campuses a better forum than city hall? Do
people just mature and use other means? Are 18 to 25 year olds more intuned
to the world. I really don't know.
I just get nauseated by all of the romanticized versions of the sixties, a
cool time of peace and love, yea right. Some of the biggest names in "peace"
were violent. All of the books, movies, and TV shows that explain how
Eisenhower got us in the war,then Nixon prolonged it, totally glossing over
Kennedy committing thousands of troops and Johnson profiting.
Wendy
I guess I am a contradiction on such topics, because I cannot make sense
out of them. On one hand, I understand the outrage and urge to protest
(having done it myself on more trivial issues), on the other, I think many
people are more into the energetic high of protesting itself; lose sight of
the problem and self serving motives take over-maybe not intentionally.
I do wonder why many protests begin on college campuses in the US. It has
crossed my mind that this is not coincidental, but an intentional target by
whoever.
Maybe I am way off, but lots of protests don't even involve students. Are
there laws that make college campuses a better forum than city hall? Do
people just mature and use other means? Are 18 to 25 year olds more intuned
to the world. I really don't know.
I just get nauseated by all of the romanticized versions of the sixties, a
cool time of peace and love, yea right. Some of the biggest names in "peace"
were violent. All of the books, movies, and TV shows that explain how
Eisenhower got us in the war,then Nixon prolonged it, totally glossing over
Kennedy committing thousands of troops and Johnson profiting.
Wendy
[email protected]
**Could we please cut this thread and get back to the reason we all here and
the one subject we can mostly all agree on, Unschooling!**
Start a new thread. Don't read what annoys you. Start talking about what
you're interested in, get other folks interested with you.
This is the essence of unschooling, for adults and kids too. Don't tell
people they shouldn't be interested in something because you aren't, don't
expect them to do and say exactly what you are interested in doing and
saying. If you want to learn about something, do it. If you want to show
people something wonderful, do it. If you want to stop listening and go read
a book, do it. Don't drag your kids off from what they're interested in to do
what you think is important, and don't shush adults either.
It IS a free country. The framers of our constitution established free speech
as a right PRECISELY for situations like this, so that no one need ever fear
criticizing their government, it's actions, or it's policies. If it truly is
the greatest nation on earth that is a huge reason why.
I'm interested in hearing everything folks have to say on all sides of this,
except I'd like to ask the shushers to please, go ahead and talk about
something else but allow the rest of these folks to talk in peace here
without trying to shut them up. Their opinions can't hurt you or our country.
Thanks.
Deborah
the one subject we can mostly all agree on, Unschooling!**
Start a new thread. Don't read what annoys you. Start talking about what
you're interested in, get other folks interested with you.
This is the essence of unschooling, for adults and kids too. Don't tell
people they shouldn't be interested in something because you aren't, don't
expect them to do and say exactly what you are interested in doing and
saying. If you want to learn about something, do it. If you want to show
people something wonderful, do it. If you want to stop listening and go read
a book, do it. Don't drag your kids off from what they're interested in to do
what you think is important, and don't shush adults either.
It IS a free country. The framers of our constitution established free speech
as a right PRECISELY for situations like this, so that no one need ever fear
criticizing their government, it's actions, or it's policies. If it truly is
the greatest nation on earth that is a huge reason why.
I'm interested in hearing everything folks have to say on all sides of this,
except I'd like to ask the shushers to please, go ahead and talk about
something else but allow the rest of these folks to talk in peace here
without trying to shut them up. Their opinions can't hurt you or our country.
Thanks.
Deborah
Wendy Silver
Interesting reading about Patty Hearst. Never heard that story. Can you give
me more details? city names and time frames. etc.? I would like to read more
on this, and I would like to see if the files are police files are still
closed. Not that I doubt your word, but I like to research things for
myself.
Also, I had two siblings at Kent during the riots, and cousins. My cousins
were townies, so felt more secure with the National Guard presence. My
sister didn't think that they needed to be there, but disliked many of the
protesters hanging out, because they were leaving trash everywhere,and
showed no respect for nature. (I don't mean everyone, but the actions of
some left the impression).
It is still unknown who started shooting. Also, some of the protesters were
armed with feces, cement dixie cups, pipe bombs, and one of the shooting
victims, not a student, has razors taped to her body. I just always wondered
why non violent protesters would be so prepared.
Wendy
me more details? city names and time frames. etc.? I would like to read more
on this, and I would like to see if the files are police files are still
closed. Not that I doubt your word, but I like to research things for
myself.
Also, I had two siblings at Kent during the riots, and cousins. My cousins
were townies, so felt more secure with the National Guard presence. My
sister didn't think that they needed to be there, but disliked many of the
protesters hanging out, because they were leaving trash everywhere,and
showed no respect for nature. (I don't mean everyone, but the actions of
some left the impression).
It is still unknown who started shooting. Also, some of the protesters were
armed with feces, cement dixie cups, pipe bombs, and one of the shooting
victims, not a student, has razors taped to her body. I just always wondered
why non violent protesters would be so prepared.
Wendy
Wendy Silver
Bridget writes:
you mean to say, not, "I don't understand you." as in the "are you
crazy?" connotation it carries when worded that way.
Ya know, I think the crazy thing could probably best explain it.
you mean to say, not, "I don't understand you." as in the "are you
crazy?" connotation it carries when worded that way.
Ya know, I think the crazy thing could probably best explain it.
Wendy Silver
who do you think is ASKING for propaganda?
Well, many of the couple of people that I have sold flag pins too,
expressed a yearning for propaganda which really struck me as a different
from the USA's past. I saw some show heard a show, read, bad recall, but
people were discussing that we needed to put a face on the terror. I found
the entire discussion bazaar.
who do think is ASKING for propaganda?
Well, many of the couple of people that I have sold flag pins too,
expressed a yearning for propaganda which really struck me as a different
from the USA's past. I saw some show heard a show, read, bad recall, but
people were discussing that we needed to put a face on the terror. I found
the entire discussion bazaar.
who do think is ASKING for propaganda?
Wendy Silver
I have read all of the Bush basing information before, but not from
credible sources, comparable to the Rush Limbaugh, Pat Roberson extremist
style of news.
Sorry, if there was a point other than to cause human injury, I missed it.
Wendy
credible sources, comparable to the Rush Limbaugh, Pat Roberson extremist
style of news.
Sorry, if there was a point other than to cause human injury, I missed it.
Wendy
Lynda
The cities were Berkeley, SF, Oakland, various other Bay Area cities and LA.
I already had a high level DEA agent look in the Berkeley police files and
the files no longer exist. You can find references to the "unrest" and
"near riots" in the local newspapers but the only references you will hear
about Patty are all sugar coated, sanitized and portray her as a victim.
You have to understand that her father owned the newspapers and a large
portion of the real estate in California at the time. He donated large sums
of money to the university. He employed a large % of the population in one
way or another in the Bay Area. If he wanted it sanitized or removed, it
was done!
You can probably find references to Nancy Ling Perry that will verify that
she was a resident of Santa Rosa, California. That her parents owned a
furniture store in Santa Rosa. That she was an honor student at Montgomery
High School and graduated in the Class of '65. I can scan yearbook
pictures, but that only proves I have the yearbooks.
The problem is you won't find the truth unless you find others that were
there. That is what a cover up is all about. The official voice says
"blah, blah, blah" and that is what is kept everywhere and they make the big
noise so that the general public won't believe the individual who was
actually there.
Where did you get your info on what protestors had at Kent State? All of
the government agencies even admit that the shooting didn't start from the
protestors. And, all the stuff they were suppose to be carrying sounds like
government propaganda to excuse their actions.
Lynda
I already had a high level DEA agent look in the Berkeley police files and
the files no longer exist. You can find references to the "unrest" and
"near riots" in the local newspapers but the only references you will hear
about Patty are all sugar coated, sanitized and portray her as a victim.
You have to understand that her father owned the newspapers and a large
portion of the real estate in California at the time. He donated large sums
of money to the university. He employed a large % of the population in one
way or another in the Bay Area. If he wanted it sanitized or removed, it
was done!
You can probably find references to Nancy Ling Perry that will verify that
she was a resident of Santa Rosa, California. That her parents owned a
furniture store in Santa Rosa. That she was an honor student at Montgomery
High School and graduated in the Class of '65. I can scan yearbook
pictures, but that only proves I have the yearbooks.
The problem is you won't find the truth unless you find others that were
there. That is what a cover up is all about. The official voice says
"blah, blah, blah" and that is what is kept everywhere and they make the big
noise so that the general public won't believe the individual who was
actually there.
Where did you get your info on what protestors had at Kent State? All of
the government agencies even admit that the shooting didn't start from the
protestors. And, all the stuff they were suppose to be carrying sounds like
government propaganda to excuse their actions.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Wendy Silver <wew99@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1554
> Interesting reading about Patty Hearst. Never heard that story. Can you
give
> me more details? city names and time frames. etc.? I would like to read
more
> on this, and I would like to see if the files are police files are still
> closed. Not that I doubt your word, but I like to research things for
> myself.
> Also, I had two siblings at Kent during the riots, and cousins. My cousins
> were townies, so felt more secure with the National Guard presence. My
> sister didn't think that they needed to be there, but disliked many of the
> protesters hanging out, because they were leaving trash everywhere,and
> showed no respect for nature. (I don't mean everyone, but the actions of
> some left the impression).
> It is still unknown who started shooting. Also, some of the protesters
were
> armed with feces, cement dixie cups, pipe bombs, and one of the shooting
> victims, not a student, has razors taped to her body. I just always
wondered
> why non violent protesters would be so prepared.
> Wendy
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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>
>
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>
>
Tia Leschke
I just noticed the ad at the bottom of one this group's posts. Just spray
it on and wife off. Hmm.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
it on and wife off. Hmm.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/30/01 2:34:22 PM, wew99@... writes:
<< Do
people just mature and use other means? Are 18 to 25 year olds more intuned
to the world. I really don't know.>>
They're fresh, optimistic and fascinated with their new role as adults.
They don't have to go to work or take care of kids yet, so they have more
time to philosophize and get involved in political action. Sometimes
immature political action, but they have the time and the energy.
<<I just get nauseated by all of the romanticized versions of the sixties, a
cool time of peace and love, yea right. Some of the biggest names in "peace"
were violent. >>
Well...
It wasn't a democratic movement with elected officials, the counter-culture.
There were lots of peace'n'love types who never gave a rat's ass about
politics, and lots of political activists who went on to become lawyers and
yuppies and never gave a mouse's patoot about peace or love. There were
conservative, religious, short-haired republicans the same age as they all
were too. There were long-haired Jesus freaks. There were barefooted
folksingers and biker-booted rock'n'roll singers. What's to be nauseated
about?
Sandra
of the barefooted folksinging non-political faction for the most part
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< Do
people just mature and use other means? Are 18 to 25 year olds more intuned
to the world. I really don't know.>>
They're fresh, optimistic and fascinated with their new role as adults.
They don't have to go to work or take care of kids yet, so they have more
time to philosophize and get involved in political action. Sometimes
immature political action, but they have the time and the energy.
<<I just get nauseated by all of the romanticized versions of the sixties, a
cool time of peace and love, yea right. Some of the biggest names in "peace"
were violent. >>
Well...
It wasn't a democratic movement with elected officials, the counter-culture.
There were lots of peace'n'love types who never gave a rat's ass about
politics, and lots of political activists who went on to become lawyers and
yuppies and never gave a mouse's patoot about peace or love. There were
conservative, religious, short-haired republicans the same age as they all
were too. There were long-haired Jesus freaks. There were barefooted
folksingers and biker-booted rock'n'roll singers. What's to be nauseated
about?
Sandra
of the barefooted folksinging non-political faction for the most part
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Tia Leschke
>Sounds like we were growing up pretty close together at the same time. If
>
>You can probably find references to Nancy Ling Perry that will verify that
>she was a resident of Santa Rosa, California. That her parents owned a
>furniture store in Santa Rosa. That she was an honor student at Montgomery
>High School and graduated in the Class of '65. I can scan yearbook
>pictures, but that only proves I have the yearbooks.
I had graduated, instead of becoming an unschooler, I would have graduated
from Berkeley High in '66.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Lynda
Ya know I find it very interesting that when FACTS are brought up about
Dumbya it is bashing and that folks can call people like Rush credible.
The facts are that Dumbya's college records are sealed. That is a fact, not
bashing. The facts are that he was AWOL, that is not bashing. The facts
are that he was arrested THREE times, not once, that is not bashing. The
facts are that he ran his oil business into the ground and to near
bankruptsy and then was rescued by one of daddy's friends, not bashing. The
facts are that while governor of Texas he let $34 million in aide for poor
children be lost because he and he alone failed to sign the forms, not
bashing. The facts are that while he was governor he put into effect the
religious run social services programs and that discrimination was rampant
and the state is being sued, that isn't bashing.
The list is long but I still haven't heard anything back about what good he
has done since he was in office. If you can find any, I'd really like to
see it because I sure can't find anything!
And what kind of nonsense was your last sentence "if there was a point other
than to cause human injury."
Lynda
Dumbya it is bashing and that folks can call people like Rush credible.
The facts are that Dumbya's college records are sealed. That is a fact, not
bashing. The facts are that he was AWOL, that is not bashing. The facts
are that he was arrested THREE times, not once, that is not bashing. The
facts are that he ran his oil business into the ground and to near
bankruptsy and then was rescued by one of daddy's friends, not bashing. The
facts are that while governor of Texas he let $34 million in aide for poor
children be lost because he and he alone failed to sign the forms, not
bashing. The facts are that while he was governor he put into effect the
religious run social services programs and that discrimination was rampant
and the state is being sued, that isn't bashing.
The list is long but I still haven't heard anything back about what good he
has done since he was in office. If you can find any, I'd really like to
see it because I sure can't find anything!
And what kind of nonsense was your last sentence "if there was a point other
than to cause human injury."
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Wendy Silver <wew99@...>
>
> I have read all of the Bush basing information before, but not from
> credible sources, comparable to the Rush Limbaugh, Pat Roberson extremist
> style of news.
> Sorry, if there was a point other than to cause human injury, I missed it.
> Wendy
Lynda
Granddaddy put up most of the money to build the campus to begin with.
Mommy was on the Regents. And if they didn't build the buildings, then
mommy ran the fund raising to get them built.
Lynda
Mommy was on the Regents. And if they didn't build the buildings, then
mommy ran the fund raising to get them built.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Cindy <crma@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1554
>
>
> Lynda wrote:
> >
> > You have to understand that her father owned the newspapers and a large
> > portion of the real estate in California at the time. He donated large
sums
> > of money to the university. He employed a large % of the population in
one
> > way or another in the Bay Area. If he wanted it sanitized or removed,
it
> > was done!
> >
> Wasn't Patty's mother on the Board of Regents for UC at that time too?
> The Hearsts have big money and big influence in northern CA - aren't
> there at least two Hearst buildings on the Berkeley campus? The only
> one I can remember is the women's gym that Julia Morgan designed.
>
> > Where did you get your info on what protestors had at Kent State? All
of
> > the government agencies even admit that the shooting didn't start from
the
> > protestors. And, all the stuff they were suppose to be carrying sounds
like
> > government propaganda to excuse their actions.
> >
> I'd like to know what the source is for the Kent State statements.
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
Elizabeth Hill
Lynda wrote:
after the kidnapping event that at least hinted of her involvement in radical
causes. They didn't flat out say that she had herself kidnapped, but they
didn't rule it out, either.
The stuff I remember was pretty general, and didn't quote her friends, but
maybe at least one reporter caught a whiff of it. (Talked to someone off the
record, perhaps, or received third hand gossip.)
It would be fairly easy, for the person who wanted sources, to dig up
microfilmed Chronicles from that time period and see that there were at least
questions about the authenticity of the kidnapping.
Betsy
> The cities were Berkeley, SF, Oakland, various other Bay Area cities and LA.I recall articles in the S.F. Chronicle, written in the first couple of weeks
> I already had a high level DEA agent look in the Berkeley police files and
> the files no longer exist. You can find references to the "unrest" and
> "near riots" in the local newspapers but the only references you will hear
> about Patty are all sugar coated, sanitized and portray her as a victim.
after the kidnapping event that at least hinted of her involvement in radical
causes. They didn't flat out say that she had herself kidnapped, but they
didn't rule it out, either.
The stuff I remember was pretty general, and didn't quote her friends, but
maybe at least one reporter caught a whiff of it. (Talked to someone off the
record, perhaps, or received third hand gossip.)
It would be fairly easy, for the person who wanted sources, to dig up
microfilmed Chronicles from that time period and see that there were at least
questions about the authenticity of the kidnapping.
Betsy
Tia Leschke
At 06:52 PM 10/30/01 -0800, you wrote:
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>I just noticed the ad at the bottom of one this group's posts. Just sprayHm. I left the whole ad in my post as a reference, but it's not here.....sigh.
>it on and wife off. Hmm.
>Tia
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Lynda
Did you hang around People's Park at all? Maybe we bumped into each other
and didn't know it. Small world, huh!
I lived in the Bay Area until 8th grade. Went to Portala, El Portal,
Nystrom and a couple of other little grammar schools I have forgotten the
names of.
We took the kidlets down to the Bay Area a couple of years ago so they could
see all the places I remember growing up. We saved and saved and even spent
a night at the Claremont. Drove past all the old fun places, took them to
Fairyland, Jack London Square, Lake Merit, Tildon Park and then had dinner
at the Cliff House.
What was really weird was when we drove past the first grammar school I went
to, Nystrom. When I went there it was in the middle of the projects and was
the largest grammar school in the U.S. Now it looks like something out of a
made for television movie with the the whole thing fenced in. I thought
we'd see armed guards any minute!
Lynda
and didn't know it. Small world, huh!
I lived in the Bay Area until 8th grade. Went to Portala, El Portal,
Nystrom and a couple of other little grammar schools I have forgotten the
names of.
We took the kidlets down to the Bay Area a couple of years ago so they could
see all the places I remember growing up. We saved and saved and even spent
a night at the Claremont. Drove past all the old fun places, took them to
Fairyland, Jack London Square, Lake Merit, Tildon Park and then had dinner
at the Cliff House.
What was really weird was when we drove past the first grammar school I went
to, Nystrom. When I went there it was in the middle of the projects and was
the largest grammar school in the U.S. Now it looks like something out of a
made for television movie with the the whole thing fenced in. I thought
we'd see armed guards any minute!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1554
>
> >
> >
> >You can probably find references to Nancy Ling Perry that will verify
that
> >she was a resident of Santa Rosa, California. That her parents owned a
> >furniture store in Santa Rosa. That she was an honor student at
Montgomery
> >High School and graduated in the Class of '65. I can scan yearbook
> >pictures, but that only proves I have the yearbooks.
>
> Sounds like we were growing up pretty close together at the same time. If
> I had graduated, instead of becoming an unschooler, I would have graduated
> from Berkeley High in '66.
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
> **************************************************************************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. -
Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
LisaBugg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Hill" <ecsamhill@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1554
>
>
> Lynda wrote:
>
> > The cities were Berkeley, SF, Oakland, various other Bay Area cities and
LA.
> > I already had a high level DEA agent look in the Berkeley police files
and
> > the files no longer exist. You can find references to the "unrest" and
> > "near riots" in the local newspapers but the only references you will
hear
> > about Patty are all sugar coated, sanitized and portray her as a victim.
This is not how I remember the case. I remember watching a number of shows
with my Dad where she was portrayed as a rebellious, deliquent, spoiled,
rich, white kid.
>
>