patriotism and reality
[email protected]
<< I need to be proud of being an American---every day. I need to sing God
Bless America, I need to pledge allegiance to the flag from now until my
death I need to do these things. >>
Maybe not.
Maybe, it's starting to appear, once again this is the result of our
government's selfishness and callous treatment of other nations' people.
If there is any truth to what's below, then the terrorists knew something we
didn't know, which wouldn't surprise me.
The war in Vietnam was not our sympathy for poor locals, was it?
And was it to stop the advances of communism?
(Communism seems to stop it's own advances pretty well.)
Could EVERYTHING below be a hoax? Is it informational terrorism?
(Is any of it false?)
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Bless America, I need to pledge allegiance to the flag from now until my
death I need to do these things. >>
Maybe not.
Maybe, it's starting to appear, once again this is the result of our
government's selfishness and callous treatment of other nations' people.
If there is any truth to what's below, then the terrorists knew something we
didn't know, which wouldn't surprise me.
The war in Vietnam was not our sympathy for poor locals, was it?
And was it to stop the advances of communism?
(Communism seems to stop it's own advances pretty well.)
Could EVERYTHING below be a hoax? Is it informational terrorism?
(Is any of it false?)
>Subject: Fwd: [nmae] Foreign Press Reveals Afghanistan War "pre-planned"m
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:31:22
>>
>>*************************************************************
>>A compilation of disturbing facts, also reported by the highly respected
>>BBC.
>>
>>****************************************************************
>>
>>Foreign Press Reveals Colin Powell Negotiated Afghanistan War Months
>>Before
>>Suicide Air Attacks: Motive is Oil Profits for Multinational War Partners
>>
>>The BBC and an Indian news agency in separate stories, one month before
>>and one
>>shortly after the suicide air attack on America, have presented the most
>>horrendous picture to date regarding the true nature of the terror in NYC
>>and
>>elsewhere: Prior knowledge.
>>
>>Those backing President Bush's request for a coalition had better make
>>certain they are getting their fair share of the spoils of war, a war
>>arranged months before the suicide air attacks against the US. A pact for
>>war
>>against the TalSE Asia Oil Pipeline, which
>>cannot
>>take
>>place with growing political and religious upheaval in the region at the
>>hands
>>of the Taliban. Iran is thought to be a covert member to the pact. The
>>combat
>>was initially slated for mid October, which would seem to account for
>>warnings
>>that preparing for war will take time.
>>
>>The problem is that the ONLY logical pipeline route runs for nearly a
>>thousand miles along the Afghanistan border with Iran and Pakistan,
>>(largely so
>>close as to be visible from the border). This route would seem to provide
>>the
>>US with the bestt serving the same oil
>>fields
>>in northern Iran and points south, preventing China from obtaining a
>>defacto
>>monopoly holder on oil supplies for SE Asia. The Chinese began
>>negotiating that
>>project in 1997, causing a great deal of consternation for the Clinton
>>administration and major US oil companies who stood to gain little in the
>>project.
>>
>>However, the Taliban are fomenting both religious and political
>>instability in
>>the region between Iranian and Pakistani Shiites and Taliban Sunni Islamic
>>sects, with notable success. This unrest makes impractical the financial
>>investment and international cooperation required to construct the
>>pipeline.
>>
>>The solution was apparently to be death warrants for both the Taliban
>>leader
>>Mullah Mohammad Omar, and capitalistic terrorist Osama bin Laden, who had
>>apparently grown too profitable and too strong for his former CIA masters
>>to
>>control. Destruction of the Taliban was imperative, but political needs
>>would
>>not permit a simple solution.
>>
>>For Pakistan and India, long bitter rivals, to partner would require only
>>sufficient profits to make peace between them more palatable. However,
>>Pakistan required a significant motive beyond profits to risk internal
>>conflict due to its nation's divided religious and political landscape,
>>all
>>intertwined with allegiances to the Taliban. There needed to be an
>>extremely
>>irresistible reason for the nation's leadership to back/support military
>>action
>>against what their own citizens considered a virtual spiritual ally.
>>
>>In like manner, Iran required an irresistible reason to publicly support
>>with
>>vocal blessings American interests in any such action, and at the same
>>time,
>>needed a way to salve bitter wounds between the two countries which would
>>allow
>>future joint financial ventures.
>>
>>In similar manner, the United States needed a very powerful and
>>irresistible
>>reason to mobilize America into supporting such a war, a war which would
>>be
>>extremely difficult to prosecute, as the Soviet Union could testify of
>>first
>>hand, having found the Soviet-Afghanistan war to be their 'Vietnam.'
>>
>>The logical solution which would indeed provide irresistible reasons for
>>all
>>concerned, would now seem to be the horrific terror campaign against NYC
>>and
>>Washington DC.
>>
>>Separately, it seems, one of the terrorists was seen by Mossad agents to
>>have
>>consulted with Iraqi intelligence operatives prior to the attack, a matter
>>passed to CIA as a warning that perhaps Iraq and Afghanistan were
>>partnering.
>> US Intelligence confirms this event but claims it was not because the
>>terrorism was sponsored by Iraq, a matter not evident to Mossad, yet CIA
>>seems to know. Indeed, the conference was likely for the personal sale of
>>information regarding the truth of the coming attack, which in part
>>accounts for
>>Iraq's somewhat evenhanded statements on the disaster, as well as those of
>>Libya. Both nations would now seem to be jointly blackmailing US
>>intelligence
>>for a slice of the action and continued safety -- in exchange for kind
>>words and
>>a hands-off policy towards the looming military action.
>>
>>The attack comes in the wake of revelations by author James Bamford in his
>>book
>>Body of Evidence of a secret plan for US military intelligence
>>cooperatives to
>>commit acts of terrorism against American targets... blow up buildings,
>>shoot
>>down civilian airliners, blow up American war ships, and assassinate
>>American
>>citizens... for political gain. Operation Northwoods was signed off by
>>all five
>>Joint Chiefs of Staff under the Kennedy administration as a way to foment
>>public
>>support for a war against Cuba, who would be blamed for the terrorist
>>acts.
>>Rejected sternly by President Kennedy, which may have contributed to
>>reasons
>>behind his assassination, this Reichstag fire approach to political gain
>>may
>>have been the model for September 11, shifting the blame this time to the
>>Taliban homeland. What would make a more irresistible excuse for war?
>>
>>In light of these revelations, American media needs to decide if it will
>>continue to ignore truth and the principles of journalism for its
>>preferred
>>role
>>as Fourth Estate PR spokesperson of government. Will they tell America
>>these
>>facts or hide what the rest of the world already knows through news
>>agencies
>>which have no such loyalties?
>>
>>Will American politicians find themselves being asked by their
>>constituents if
>>they knew in advance of this death pact, and have the blood of innocents
>>on
>>their hands as coconspirators, or will they demand a full accounting of
>>the
>>facts before signing off on the blood lust boiling over as result of this
>>war
>>plot?
>>
>>For more information, please review the following news sources:
>>
>>This article was written by an Indian news agency months before the
>>attack:
>>
>>http://www.indiareacts.com/Story33.htm>http://www.indiareacts.com/Story33.ht
>>St
>>H. Michael Sweeney is a published author in the area of personal privacy
>>and
>>safety, and an expert on disinformation and an investigative writer
>>specializing
>>in crimes of the intelligence community. Mr. Sweeney is one of many
>>persons
>>preparing to educate America of the existence of these facts.
>>
>>"America will undoubtedly have its unstoppable war thanks to the Fourth
>>Estate, but at what price?" asks Mr. Sweeney. "Only those powerful men
>>who
>>know
>>the truth will profit, and every American will have paid for it with their
>>souls, others with their blood." He adds that "It is extremely ironic
>>that
>>this
>>plan comes so close on the heels of the release of the James Bond film,
>>The
>>World is Not Enough, which parallels many of the key elements of the
>>underlying
>>story."
>>
>>Here's a web site with an article from The Baltimore Sun on the book
>>mentioned above, BODY OF SECRETS
>>
>>http://www.infowars.com/Police_State/NSA.htm>http://www.infowars.com/Police_
>>http://www.indiareacts.com/Story33.htm
>>ate/NSA.htm
>>
>>What did the U.S. know before the WTC attack?
>>Here's a Partial Transcript of the Interview Alex Jones did with David
>>Schippers about the Government's Prior Knowledge.
>>
>>http://www.infowars.com/transcript_schippers.html>http://www.infowars.com/
>>transcript_schippers.html
>>
>>Miami Herald October 7, 2001:
>>Inmate Claims He Alerted FBI in 1997 to Shiek's Plan to Use Airplanes in
>>Attack
>>
>>http://www.miami.com/herald/content/news/local/dade/digdocs/086219.htm
>>
>>BBC: US Government Warned Other Governments about Afghan Invasion in July
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1550000/1550366.stm
>>
>>BBC radio report: In June US Had Plan In Place to Attack the Taliban
>>Before
>>Winter Interview with Pakinstani Foreign Secretary
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1550000/audio/_1550366_afghan01_arney.ram
>>
>>India Reacts.com: US Government Told Other Governments about Afghan
>>Invasion in
>>June
>>
>>Sandra
>>BBC: Interview with former British soldier "From a military perspective
>>Afghanistan is a really tough nut to crack"
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1550000/audio/_1550366_afghan00_yardley.ram
>>
>>New York Times: Did the FBI allow the 1993 WTC bombing to take place?
>>
>>http://www.infowars.com/saved pages/terrorists/The World Trade Towers
>>
>>Baltimore Sun: Way Back in 1962 the Pentagon Was Planning on Blowing up
>>Airlines, Sinking Ships and Bombing Washington. The Joint Chiefs of Staff
>>in
>>Documents Stated That Casualty Lists, Dead Americans, Would Be Helpful in
>>Newspapers for a Wave of Indignation.
>>
>>http://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.md.nsa24apr24.story
>>
>>CBS News: Bush Is Going to Give China Our Strategic Defense Initiative.
>>
>>http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,309326-412,00.shtml
>>
>>TV Pilot of New Show "The Lone Gunman" had a jet controlled by a madman
>>headed for NYC buildings.
>>
>>http://www.xfiles.stylicious.com/lonegunmen/1aeb79.php
>>---
>
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Cindy <crma@i...> wrote:
Those are strong words, Cindy. But very honest and thought provoking.
I think every American should be reevaluting their ideas on
patriotism, why they are participating in it, and what is their
message when they do.
I, too, have been uneasy seeing the mass surge of patriotism, flags
everywhere you look. I have purposely chosen to (once again) go
against the norm. We're practically the only one on in the
neighborhood without a flag billowing in the front yard, on our car,
on our person, etc. But I will step up to the challenge and argue
with anyone who says I am being un-American for my lack of supposed
patriotism. I am who I am first. I question things, even things "my"
government is doing. I don't think that is un-American. I think that
is being a true American - a free thinker.
Karin
> I am frightened by all the flag waving! And thequestions are. >
> implication that those of us who don't wave it are unAmerican. >
> I am not proud to be an American a lot of the time. >
> Blind, unquestioning jingoism is not the answer now. Hard
Those are strong words, Cindy. But very honest and thought provoking.
I think every American should be reevaluting their ideas on
patriotism, why they are participating in it, and what is their
message when they do.
I, too, have been uneasy seeing the mass surge of patriotism, flags
everywhere you look. I have purposely chosen to (once again) go
against the norm. We're practically the only one on in the
neighborhood without a flag billowing in the front yard, on our car,
on our person, etc. But I will step up to the challenge and argue
with anyone who says I am being un-American for my lack of supposed
patriotism. I am who I am first. I question things, even things "my"
government is doing. I don't think that is un-American. I think that
is being a true American - a free thinker.
Karin
jbpan
We are heading out the door and I just checked my email really quick on the
way out. Had to say to Sandra, wonderful!
Brynn~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
way out. Had to say to Sandra, wonderful!
Brynn~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> The fact that the anti-terrorism bill which just passed CongressI agree, very disturbing. And these little children, suffering our
> takes
> away so many of the rights enshrined in the Constitution makes me
> angry!
> And this new office of Homeland Security sounds like something the
> Nazis
> would do, not democracy loving Americans!
bombing campaign today, will be young men with guns and bombs of their
own tomorrow. What are we really doing?
Deb L
Lynda
Playing let's pretend we are our daddy? Playing politics! Check the
cabinet and see how many are recycled from Read My Lips' cabinet or
Ronnie's, etc.
The general rule of thumb is that a war boosts the economy. Ain't happening
this time, though is it!
Lynda
cabinet and see how many are recycled from Read My Lips' cabinet or
Ronnie's, etc.
The general rule of thumb is that a war boosts the economy. Ain't happening
this time, though is it!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <ddzimlew@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
> > The fact that the anti-terrorism bill which just passed Congress
> > takes
> > away so many of the rights enshrined in the Constitution makes me
> > angry!
> > And this new office of Homeland Security sounds like something the
> > Nazis
> > would do, not democracy loving Americans!
>
>
> I agree, very disturbing. And these little children, suffering our
> bombing campaign today, will be young men with guns and bombs of their
> own tomorrow. What are we really doing?
> Deb L
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
I have no problem believing that this person could be right. But it's a
little harder when he makes a statement referring to the Afghanistan border
with Iran and Pakistan. There's a border between Afghanistan and Iran on
one side of Afghanistan, which runs on down between Iran and Pakistan to
the ocean. And there's a border between Afghanistan and and Pakistan on
the other side of Afghanistan, which curves around and runs into the other
one at right angles. Maybe he means that one. Have you had a chance to
check out any of the listed web sites, Sandra? Any comments on them?
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
little harder when he makes a statement referring to the Afghanistan border
with Iran and Pakistan. There's a border between Afghanistan and Iran on
one side of Afghanistan, which runs on down between Iran and Pakistan to
the ocean. And there's a border between Afghanistan and and Pakistan on
the other side of Afghanistan, which curves around and runs into the other
one at right angles. Maybe he means that one. Have you had a chance to
check out any of the listed web sites, Sandra? Any comments on them?
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Teri Loftis
--
On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:50:45
SandraDodd wrote:
All things are not glorious in America but it's sure better than any other place on Earth. I will continue to sing it's praises whether it is true or not. And if it is true, isn;'t it my job to start the difference now?
I can't change what's happened but I can make an amends by eing better from now forward, not just during crisis mode.
Teri
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:50:45
SandraDodd wrote:
>Maybe not? Well, let's see who moves out of the country if this is true. Let's see who moves out of the country as a protest to this war. Who moved out of this country as a result of the Vietnam war?
><< I need to be proud of being an American---every day. I need to sing God
>Bless America, I need to pledge allegiance to the flag from now until my
>death I need to do these things. >>
>
>Maybe not.
>
All things are not glorious in America but it's sure better than any other place on Earth. I will continue to sing it's praises whether it is true or not. And if it is true, isn;'t it my job to start the difference now?
I can't change what's happened but I can make an amends by eing better from now forward, not just during crisis mode.
Teri
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
[email protected]
.> Have you had a
yet found the article, though I have found references to it. Has anyone
had better luck and can you tell me how?
Thanks,
Deb L
> chance toI have had no luck with the links. At the India reacts site, I haven't
> check out any of the listed web sites,
yet found the article, though I have found references to it. Has anyone
had better luck and can you tell me how?
Thanks,
Deb L
Tia Leschke
>I did.
>Maybe not? Well, let's see who moves out of the country if this is
>true. Let's see who moves out of the country as a protest to this
>war. Who moved out of this country as a result of the Vietnam war?
>All things are not glorious in America but it's sure better than any otherWe'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
>place on Earth.
> I will continue to sing it's praises whether it is true or not. And ifIt's always our job to improve our surroundings as best we can. I just
> it is true, isn;'t it my job to start the difference now?
don't think you can make something better by praising it whether it
deserves it or not. My country right or wrong. I think the attitude that
we were suppose to say that was one of the main things that drove me out of
my country of birth. "If you don't agree with the government, you must be
some kind of rotten commie and should move to Russia." One heard that kind
of thing a lot when I was in my teens.
>I can't change what's happened but I can make an amends by eing betterI certainly agree with you there.
>from now forward, not just during crisis mode.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Leslie
"Maybe not? Well, let's see who moves out of the country if this is true. Let's see who moves out of the country as a protest to this war."
Teri
People become attached to places for all kinds of reasons. Many people are stuck living under various governments who they may or may not agree with. Free speech and thought are what it means to be living in a democratic society no?
" Who moved out of this country as a result of the Vietnam war?"
Teri
I don't know the numbers, but there are very many conscientious objectors, draft dodgers and deserters, who left the US during the Viet Nam war, and now call Canada home. What if "they" made unschooling and home schooling etc...illegal. Would you be looking for a new place to live?
Leslie, citizen of the planet Earth
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Teri
People become attached to places for all kinds of reasons. Many people are stuck living under various governments who they may or may not agree with. Free speech and thought are what it means to be living in a democratic society no?
" Who moved out of this country as a result of the Vietnam war?"
Teri
I don't know the numbers, but there are very many conscientious objectors, draft dodgers and deserters, who left the US during the Viet Nam war, and now call Canada home. What if "they" made unschooling and home schooling etc...illegal. Would you be looking for a new place to live?
Leslie, citizen of the planet Earth
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
This country was founded on violence and it continues till today. Running
around singing its praises isn't going to make it better, just the reverse.
Now, more than ever, it is time to stand up and make this sorry excuse we
have for a government accountable in every way shape and form!
And, just a note, there are lots of people leaving and for countries that
are as good and some feel are actually better.
This country needs lots of work to be the best. For starters they (meaning
the idiots in DC) need to get their noses out of other countries businesses.
The current problem is the direct result of that interference in other's
business! Who do you think trained, supplied and financed the Taliban to
begin with? We are now reaping the results of interference in another
country's politics!
Lynda
around singing its praises isn't going to make it better, just the reverse.
Now, more than ever, it is time to stand up and make this sorry excuse we
have for a government accountable in every way shape and form!
And, just a note, there are lots of people leaving and for countries that
are as good and some feel are actually better.
This country needs lots of work to be the best. For starters they (meaning
the idiots in DC) need to get their noses out of other countries businesses.
The current problem is the direct result of that interference in other's
business! Who do you think trained, supplied and financed the Taliban to
begin with? We are now reaping the results of interference in another
country's politics!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Teri Loftis <itsmeeteri@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
> --
>
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:50:45
> SandraDodd wrote:
> >
> ><< I need to be proud of being an American---every day. I need to sing
God
> >Bless America, I need to pledge allegiance to the flag from now until my
> >death I need to do these things. >>
> >
> >Maybe not.
> >
>
> Maybe not? Well, let's see who moves out of the country if this is true.
Let's see who moves out of the country as a protest to this war. Who moved
out of this country as a result of the Vietnam war?
>
> All things are not glorious in America but it's sure better than any other
place on Earth. I will continue to sing it's praises whether it is true
or not. And if it is true, isn;'t it my job to start the difference now?
>
> I can't change what's happened but I can make an amends by eing better
from now forward, not just during crisis mode.
>
> Teri
>
>
> Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
> http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Teri Loftis
--
. What if "they" made unschooling and home schooling etc...illegal. Would you be looking for a new place to live?
If you all read the declaration of independence you will see that this is the America I love. It has gotten lost, we, as a country have forgotten what has made us great. That is the America I am proud to live in. That is the America I want to teach my kids to love. Think what al our forefathers fought for...we need to defend that.
We have so many freedoms versus other countries, these are the things I think of when I think of living somewhere else. We have taken for granted all our priveleges. I guess I mean for us to get back to the basics. Compare what we have to what other countries have. Then make America what you want.
Be glad that you can complain about our government. Be glad that you can pray to your own god. Celebrate what makes America great and change what you don't like.
Teri--red, white and blue
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
. What if "they" made unschooling and home schooling etc...illegal. Would you be looking for a new place to live?
>Great question! Got me thinking and that is what this board is about isn't it.
>Leslie, citizen of the planet Earth
>
If you all read the declaration of independence you will see that this is the America I love. It has gotten lost, we, as a country have forgotten what has made us great. That is the America I am proud to live in. That is the America I want to teach my kids to love. Think what al our forefathers fought for...we need to defend that.
We have so many freedoms versus other countries, these are the things I think of when I think of living somewhere else. We have taken for granted all our priveleges. I guess I mean for us to get back to the basics. Compare what we have to what other countries have. Then make America what you want.
Be glad that you can complain about our government. Be glad that you can pray to your own god. Celebrate what makes America great and change what you don't like.
Teri--red, white and blue
>Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
[email protected]
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Teri Loftis" <itsmeeteri@l...> wrote:
change what you don't like.
AMerica is no better or worse then them. The fact is I choose to live
here. . . if it were unbearable to me, I would move. It isn't. But it
is far from perfect just as most places are. I really cringe at all
the excess "patriotism" as well. . . we are no better than other
countries. .. in my opinion, a more appropriate slogan might be. .
God bless the Universe.. . or the world, or something that suggests
we value all life, not American life over others.
lovemary
>you can pray to your own god. Celebrate what makes America great and
> Be glad that you can complain about our government. Be glad that
change what you don't like.
>I think that there are lots of countries you can do this in. . .
> Teri--red, white and blue
AMerica is no better or worse then them. The fact is I choose to live
here. . . if it were unbearable to me, I would move. It isn't. But it
is far from perfect just as most places are. I really cringe at all
the excess "patriotism" as well. . . we are no better than other
countries. .. in my opinion, a more appropriate slogan might be. .
God bless the Universe.. . or the world, or something that suggests
we value all life, not American life over others.
lovemary
Leslie
...in my opinion, a more appropriate slogan might be. God bless the Universe.. . or the world, or something that suggests we value all life, not American life over others.
lovemary
You can say that again......!!!!
My heart is breaking for the mother who doesn't have what she needs to take care of her children, no matter where she lives on the planet.
Leslie
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lovemary
You can say that again......!!!!
My heart is breaking for the mother who doesn't have what she needs to take care of her children, no matter where she lives on the planet.
Leslie
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Lynda
If they get the other law pushed through behind closed doors, complaining
about the government will become illegal! As it is, the one they just
pushed through has more or less taken away all one's rights to privacy. It
no longer takes a "local" as in state judge to sign a search warrent or wire
tap warrent.
For those that think the "grandfather" clause is anything more than a big
pile of what a bull leaves behind, check your history books to see if any
law with a grandfather clause has ever lapses when it was suppose to be
grandfathered out! AND, contrary to all the hot air the politicians are
pushing out, all parts of that new law do NOT have a grandfather clause.
As to whomever blessing this country, I prefer to see signs that say to the
rest of the world "United We Stand." Personally I'm not to fond of all the
garbage through the centuries that has been done in the name of religion!
Lynda
about the government will become illegal! As it is, the one they just
pushed through has more or less taken away all one's rights to privacy. It
no longer takes a "local" as in state judge to sign a search warrent or wire
tap warrent.
For those that think the "grandfather" clause is anything more than a big
pile of what a bull leaves behind, check your history books to see if any
law with a grandfather clause has ever lapses when it was suppose to be
grandfathered out! AND, contrary to all the hot air the politicians are
pushing out, all parts of that new law do NOT have a grandfather clause.
As to whomever blessing this country, I prefer to see signs that say to the
rest of the world "United We Stand." Personally I'm not to fond of all the
garbage through the centuries that has been done in the name of religion!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <lite2yu@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: patriotism and reality
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Teri Loftis" <itsmeeteri@l...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Be glad that you can complain about our government. Be glad that
> you can pray to your own god. Celebrate what makes America great and
> change what you don't like.
> >
> > Teri--red, white and blue
>
> I think that there are lots of countries you can do this in. . .
> AMerica is no better or worse then them. The fact is I choose to live
> here. . . if it were unbearable to me, I would move. It isn't. But it
> is far from perfect just as most places are. I really cringe at all
> the excess "patriotism" as well. . . we are no better than other
> countries. .. in my opinion, a more appropriate slogan might be. .
> God bless the Universe.. . or the world, or something that suggests
> we value all life, not American life over others.
>
> lovemary
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
Well, they have told the media that they aren't going to give them
information except on a "need to know" basis which translates to "we are
going to sanitize the information before you get it" and "we are only going
to tell you what we want you to know."
For those that aren't old enough to remember the hysteria following the
McCarthy era, let me tell you a little about what happens. For example, my
grandfather was a union organizer and Communist. That meant that all of my
family on that side was on the Red List (that is what the CIA and Feebs
called the files they kept) which meant, for example, that my uncle couldn't
get his bar card to practice law. It also meant that all of us to this day
are still on that list. I happen to have several notation on my
file--Berkeley, Alcatraz, SLA and, horror of horrors, Indian! And, yes I
know the file is there because I was dating a high level DEA agent back in
the 80s and he was informed that knowing me could be detrimental to his
career and he was shown the file. Why, I had the audacity to go to school
with AND go to slumber parties at the home of Nancy Ling Perry who was a
real "evil doer" and became a member of the SLA! And, naughty, naughty, I
raised hell at some protests in Berkeley!
I got a call from him a couple of months ago to tell me that all those old
files were being dusted off because of the SLA trial in LaLa Land. I can
just image what is happening now with those files and the new ones they are
opening!
Which reminds me, any history buffs out there? Anyone else see the
similarities between Hitler and Dumbya? The same retoric about "evil" in
our midst???
Lynda
information except on a "need to know" basis which translates to "we are
going to sanitize the information before you get it" and "we are only going
to tell you what we want you to know."
For those that aren't old enough to remember the hysteria following the
McCarthy era, let me tell you a little about what happens. For example, my
grandfather was a union organizer and Communist. That meant that all of my
family on that side was on the Red List (that is what the CIA and Feebs
called the files they kept) which meant, for example, that my uncle couldn't
get his bar card to practice law. It also meant that all of us to this day
are still on that list. I happen to have several notation on my
file--Berkeley, Alcatraz, SLA and, horror of horrors, Indian! And, yes I
know the file is there because I was dating a high level DEA agent back in
the 80s and he was informed that knowing me could be detrimental to his
career and he was shown the file. Why, I had the audacity to go to school
with AND go to slumber parties at the home of Nancy Ling Perry who was a
real "evil doer" and became a member of the SLA! And, naughty, naughty, I
raised hell at some protests in Berkeley!
I got a call from him a couple of months ago to tell me that all those old
files were being dusted off because of the SLA trial in LaLa Land. I can
just image what is happening now with those files and the new ones they are
opening!
Which reminds me, any history buffs out there? Anyone else see the
similarities between Hitler and Dumbya? The same retoric about "evil" in
our midst???
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Cindy <crma@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
>
> Teri Loftis wrote:
> >
> > Be glad that you can complain about our government. Be glad that you
can pray to your own god. Celebrate what makes America great and change
what you don't like.
> >
> > Teri--red, white and blue
>
> That's what a lot of us are trying to do. But with the new anti-terrorism
> bill which was signed yesterday, I (and others too) wonder just how far
> our loss of civil liberties will go. I remember the 60s and the Nixon
> years where the FBI and the CIA did a lot of underhanded intimidating of
> protestors and others those in power labeled as enemies. Will this new
> "war" bring even worse? Will it be legal for anyone to protest the use of
> violence in this endeavor?
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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>
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/27/01 11:54:41 AM, leslie@... writes:
<< " Who moved out of this country as a result of the Vietnam war?" >>
How many moved straight to heaven or oblivion, do-not-pass-go, both American
and Vietnamese, so that our gasoline prices could stay low? (Or whatever the
dire reason was, about which the government wasn't being entirely up-front.)
-=-in my opinion, a more appropriate slogan might be. .
God bless the Universe.. . or the world, or something that suggests
we value all life, not American life over others. -=-
My sister has two big bumpers on her van which are untreated steel so theyr'e
basically chalkboards. She had written "God Bless America" on front and
"...and please, God, bless Afghanistan too" on the back.
After one trip through Espanola and another to Santa Fe, she washed off the
back because she was being razzed and complained to, and she didn't want any
harm to come to her van or herself.
That's not the way it should be.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< " Who moved out of this country as a result of the Vietnam war?" >>
How many moved straight to heaven or oblivion, do-not-pass-go, both American
and Vietnamese, so that our gasoline prices could stay low? (Or whatever the
dire reason was, about which the government wasn't being entirely up-front.)
-=-in my opinion, a more appropriate slogan might be. .
God bless the Universe.. . or the world, or something that suggests
we value all life, not American life over others. -=-
My sister has two big bumpers on her van which are untreated steel so theyr'e
basically chalkboards. She had written "God Bless America" on front and
"...and please, God, bless Afghanistan too" on the back.
After one trip through Espanola and another to Santa Fe, she washed off the
back because she was being razzed and complained to, and she didn't want any
harm to come to her van or herself.
That's not the way it should be.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
> Anyone else see theAbsolutely creepy.
> similarities between Hitler and Dumbya? The same retoric about
> "evil" in
> our midst???
Deb L
Lynda
Vietnam was a French colony. The war originally started because once again
we had to play the great rescuer and help our good buddies keep folks in
servitude. The politicians used the oil thing as an excuse.
Now, as to our need for cheap oil. BS!!! Pure unadulterated bs being fed
to the American taxpayer! The U.S. uses 56 billion gallons of diesel each
year. It takes 1 barrel of crude to make 10 gallons of diesel. We imported
140 million barrels of crude in 2000. Not withstanding the other things we
get from a barrel of crude, if we changed over to biodiesel, not only would
we come close to stopping our dependence on imported oil, we would reduce
diesel created polutants--sulfur by 100%, soot by 70%, carbon dioxide by
100% and nitrogen by 30%.
You don't have to do a thing to a diesel engine to use biodiesel. The
engines last longer and you get better mileage. Oh, and it would reduce
landfills and other waste disposal problems as you can reuse all the fry oil
that restaurants use!
We currently spend $5.7 billion on farm welfare. If all those fallow fields
were put to work growing soybeans and corn, we could cut the farm welfare in
half.
If the government got over its false paranoia about hemp, places such as the
reservations where little will grow could become self-sufficient as hemp
literally grows like a weed (hence the nickname for its cousin) anywhere.
AND, it burns even cleaner and produces better gas mileage than other
biodiesel fuels.
We have the means, but our government is in the pockets of folks that don't
want the price of gas to go down. Biodiesel at the most would cost $0.99 a
gallon once sufficient refineries were developed.
Now, the other thing they don't want the average taxpayer to know, you can
make biodiesel in your garage!
Lynda
we had to play the great rescuer and help our good buddies keep folks in
servitude. The politicians used the oil thing as an excuse.
Now, as to our need for cheap oil. BS!!! Pure unadulterated bs being fed
to the American taxpayer! The U.S. uses 56 billion gallons of diesel each
year. It takes 1 barrel of crude to make 10 gallons of diesel. We imported
140 million barrels of crude in 2000. Not withstanding the other things we
get from a barrel of crude, if we changed over to biodiesel, not only would
we come close to stopping our dependence on imported oil, we would reduce
diesel created polutants--sulfur by 100%, soot by 70%, carbon dioxide by
100% and nitrogen by 30%.
You don't have to do a thing to a diesel engine to use biodiesel. The
engines last longer and you get better mileage. Oh, and it would reduce
landfills and other waste disposal problems as you can reuse all the fry oil
that restaurants use!
We currently spend $5.7 billion on farm welfare. If all those fallow fields
were put to work growing soybeans and corn, we could cut the farm welfare in
half.
If the government got over its false paranoia about hemp, places such as the
reservations where little will grow could become self-sufficient as hemp
literally grows like a weed (hence the nickname for its cousin) anywhere.
AND, it burns even cleaner and produces better gas mileage than other
biodiesel fuels.
We have the means, but our government is in the pockets of folks that don't
want the price of gas to go down. Biodiesel at the most would cost $0.99 a
gallon once sufficient refineries were developed.
Now, the other thing they don't want the average taxpayer to know, you can
make biodiesel in your garage!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
> In a message dated 10/27/01 11:54:41 AM, leslie@... writes:
>
> << " Who moved out of this country as a result of the Vietnam war?" >>
>
> How many moved straight to heaven or oblivion, do-not-pass-go, both
American
> and Vietnamese, so that our gasoline prices could stay low? (Or whatever
the
> dire reason was, about which the government wasn't being entirely
up-front.)
>
> -=-in my opinion, a more appropriate slogan might be. .
> God bless the Universe.. . or the world, or something that suggests
> we value all life, not American life over others. -=-
>
> My sister has two big bumpers on her van which are untreated steel so
theyr'e
> basically chalkboards. She had written "God Bless America" on front and
> "...and please, God, bless Afghanistan too" on the back.
>
> After one trip through Espanola and another to Santa Fe, she washed off
the
> back because she was being razzed and complained to, and she didn't want
any
> harm to come to her van or herself.
>
> That's not the way it should be.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> "Everything counts."
> http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
> http://expage.com/SandraDodd
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
I wish it would really help. that contract is only generating about 1200
jobs in California where we lost 280,000 jobs in the space industry.
and, after watching 60 minutes and dateline tonight, well, not too
encouraging at all!
Lynda
jobs in California where we lost 280,000 jobs in the space industry.
and, after watching 60 minutes and dateline tonight, well, not too
encouraging at all!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Cindy <crma@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
>
> Lynda wrote:
> >
> > The general rule of thumb is that a war boosts the economy. Ain't
happening
> > this time, though is it!
> >
> Actually I think they are trying. I heard on a news report today that
> Lockheed Martin has been awarded a huge contract - one of the largest
> in history. The business reporter said that was very good news for
> the defense sector since Lockheed Martin will have to sub out some
> of the work.
>
> As I was driving today, I also recalled that one of yesterday's news
blurbs
> (I only do blurbs since I can't take any more than that!) was from either
> Cheney or Rumsfeld and that they didn't think it likely that they would
> actually be able to capture Bin Laden. Which after reading the forwarded
> article from Sandra seems to support some of that article's claims.
>
> Here are some other interesting bits I've just had time to read - it's
> about the election outcome last year :
>
> The NORC Florida Ballot Study
> http://democrats.com/view.cfm?id=4623
>
> Media Suppress the News That Bush Lost Election to Gore
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/0110/22/world/world14.html
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
Exactly. And it is really strange that Boeing lost the bid. The only bids
they ever lost in the past were for jobs they didn't want. Be interesting
to see those bids!
Lynda
they ever lost in the past were for jobs they didn't want. Be interesting
to see those bids!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Cindy <crma@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
>
> Lynda wrote:
> >
> > I wish it would really help. that contract is only generating about
1200
> > jobs in California where we lost 280,000 jobs in the space industry.
> >
>
> I saw something over the weekend that said the majority of the jobs
> would be at a Lockheed facility in Fort Worth, Texas. Interesting
> coincidence, isn't it??
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Elizabeth Hill
Lynda wrote:
the colonial French power in Vietnam.
I'm interested in knowing a bit more about what happened in this region during
WWII. (I have pretty good general knowledge about the war, but little relating
to this part of the world.) I know that if I put "Vietnam" and "World
War Two"
into a search engine, I'm going to get a zillion hits at superficial websites
that tell me brief information about both wars. (Both wars were in this
century and Vietnam was after WWII. That's not deeply enlightening.)
Anybody know a good way to search for this type of information without
drowning? I suppose narrowing down and looking at sites (or at books) that
focus on the history of Vietnam would be a good starting strategy.
I actually did study the Vietnam war a bit in 8th Grade Social Studies
(although I've forgotten a lot), but not going back to events that
happened 20
and 30 years prior to it that may have been relevant.
Betsy
> Vietnam was a French colony. The war originally started because once againI heard an interesting reference on NPR about US actions in WWII that supported
> we had to play the great rescuer and help our good buddies keep folks in
> servitude. The politicians used the oil thing as an excuse.
the colonial French power in Vietnam.
I'm interested in knowing a bit more about what happened in this region during
WWII. (I have pretty good general knowledge about the war, but little relating
to this part of the world.) I know that if I put "Vietnam" and "World
War Two"
into a search engine, I'm going to get a zillion hits at superficial websites
that tell me brief information about both wars. (Both wars were in this
century and Vietnam was after WWII. That's not deeply enlightening.)
Anybody know a good way to search for this type of information without
drowning? I suppose narrowing down and looking at sites (or at books) that
focus on the history of Vietnam would be a good starting strategy.
I actually did study the Vietnam war a bit in 8th Grade Social Studies
(although I've forgotten a lot), but not going back to events that
happened 20
and 30 years prior to it that may have been relevant.
Betsy
Pat Spelling
This is interesting. I am pretty patriotic but I don't necessarily believe
much of the hype from our government.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=101536
Pat S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
much of the hype from our government.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=101536
Pat S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
If you use goggle you can go to advanced search and put in specific words
that are linked together and all you get are sources that use your specific
request.
Lynda
that are linked together and all you get are sources that use your specific
request.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Elizabeth Hill <ecsamhill@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
>
> Lynda wrote:
>
> > Vietnam was a French colony. The war originally started because once
again
> > we had to play the great rescuer and help our good buddies keep folks in
> > servitude. The politicians used the oil thing as an excuse.
>
> I heard an interesting reference on NPR about US actions in WWII that
supported
> the colonial French power in Vietnam.
>
> I'm interested in knowing a bit more about what happened in this region
during
> WWII. (I have pretty good general knowledge about the war, but little
relating
> to this part of the world.) I know that if I put "Vietnam" and "World
> War Two"
> into a search engine, I'm going to get a zillion hits at superficial
websites
> that tell me brief information about both wars. (Both wars were in this
> century and Vietnam was after WWII. That's not deeply enlightening.)
>
> Anybody know a good way to search for this type of information without
> drowning? I suppose narrowing down and looking at sites (or at books)
that
> focus on the history of Vietnam would be a good starting strategy.
>
> I actually did study the Vietnam war a bit in 8th Grade Social Studies
> (although I've forgotten a lot), but not going back to events that
> happened 20
> and 30 years prior to it that may have been relevant.
>
> Betsy
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
>Gee, I wonder if I'm on it. My dad couldn't get the right security
>For those that aren't old enough to remember the hysteria following the
>McCarthy era, let me tell you a little about what happens. For example, my
>grandfather was a union organizer and Communist. That meant that all of my
>family on that side was on the Red List (that is what the CIA and Feebs
>called the files they kept) which meant, for example, that my uncle couldn't
>get his bar card to practice law. It also meant that all of us to this day
>are still on that list.
clearance from NASA for a job he was doing for them in the 60's. His
crime? He had gone to a Leadbelly concert way back when that was a
fundraiser for some left wing group. He was also on the board of directors
for the Berkeley food co-op. Pretty nasty stuff. <g>
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
>How about "history of Vietnam" +1940's?
>I'm interested in knowing a bit more about what happened in this region during
>WWII. (I have pretty good general knowledge about the war, but little
>relating
>to this part of the world.) I know that if I put "Vietnam" and "World
>War Two"
>into a search engine, I'm going to get a zillion hits at superficial websites
>that tell me brief information about both wars. (Both wars were in this
>century and Vietnam was after WWII. That's not deeply enlightening.)
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/01 12:37:27 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< My dad couldn't get the right security
clearance from NASA for a job he was doing for them in the 60's. His
crime? He had gone to a Leadbelly concert way back when that was a
fundraiser for some left wing group. He was also on the board of directors
for the Berkeley food co-op. Pretty nasty stuff. >>
That was crazy.
We met at the home of a schoolmate (who had moved in from NYC--suspicious all
on its own! <g>) to get her mom's advice about an underground newspaper at
school (more arts than politics, by far). Her mom was working on a newspaper
called El Grito del Norte, which turned out to be funded by or related to or
something, communists. So for having bee at a meeting at Tessa Konigsberg's
house (she later took her mom's name, Martinez, to blend in in Espanola
better), we got "files," and the school was warned to watch us.
It didn't take much in those cold-war days.
Tessa's family did go to Cuba every summer to pick coffee or cut cane or
something. And so we were consorting with the friends of the enemy.
Sandra
--------------------------------------------------------------
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< My dad couldn't get the right security
clearance from NASA for a job he was doing for them in the 60's. His
crime? He had gone to a Leadbelly concert way back when that was a
fundraiser for some left wing group. He was also on the board of directors
for the Berkeley food co-op. Pretty nasty stuff. >>
That was crazy.
We met at the home of a schoolmate (who had moved in from NYC--suspicious all
on its own! <g>) to get her mom's advice about an underground newspaper at
school (more arts than politics, by far). Her mom was working on a newspaper
called El Grito del Norte, which turned out to be funded by or related to or
something, communists. So for having bee at a meeting at Tessa Konigsberg's
house (she later took her mom's name, Martinez, to blend in in Espanola
better), we got "files," and the school was warned to watch us.
It didn't take much in those cold-war days.
Tessa's family did go to Cuba every summer to pick coffee or cut cane or
something. And so we were consorting with the friends of the enemy.
Sandra
--------------------------------------------------------------
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Lynda
99.9% chance. I mean, it was my stepdad's stepdad and I ended up on the
list when I was 5! AND, guess what, even under the Freedom of Information
Act they will tell you the lists/files don't exist. They will give you some
balooney run around! And now with the new law, well, here we go again.
Just call him George W. McCarthy!
Lynda
list when I was 5! AND, guess what, even under the Freedom of Information
Act they will tell you the lists/files don't exist. They will give you some
balooney run around! And now with the new law, well, here we go again.
Just call him George W. McCarthy!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
> >
> >For those that aren't old enough to remember the hysteria following the
> >McCarthy era, let me tell you a little about what happens. For example,
my
> >grandfather was a union organizer and Communist. That meant that all of
my
> >family on that side was on the Red List (that is what the CIA and Feebs
> >called the files they kept) which meant, for example, that my uncle
couldn't
> >get his bar card to practice law. It also meant that all of us to this
day
> >are still on that list.
>
> Gee, I wonder if I'm on it. My dad couldn't get the right security
> clearance from NASA for a job he was doing for them in the 60's. His
> crime? He had gone to a Leadbelly concert way back when that was a
> fundraiser for some left wing group. He was also on the board of
directors
> for the Berkeley food co-op. Pretty nasty stuff. <g>
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
> **************************************************************************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. -
Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
Lynda
Once on the lists you are on the lists for life!
The lists go beyond ridiculous! Hubby's father came here from Italy. In
Italy at the turn of the century everyone was a Fascist. It didn't mean a
thing "there." DH's father fought in WWII even though he didn't have to
(age and sole support of his mother), was discharged on a medical from
injuries. But they are still on the list because of the politics when they
came over.
Ex-hubby's family is on it because his grandmother's brother was Mafia.
I think it is time our government got a life, a real life!
Lynda
The lists go beyond ridiculous! Hubby's father came here from Italy. In
Italy at the turn of the century everyone was a Fascist. It didn't mean a
thing "there." DH's father fought in WWII even though he didn't have to
(age and sole support of his mother), was discharged on a medical from
injuries. But they are still on the list because of the politics when they
came over.
Ex-hubby's family is on it because his grandmother's brother was Mafia.
I think it is time our government got a life, a real life!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] patriotism and reality
>
> In a message dated 10/29/01 12:37:27 PM, leschke@... writes:
>
> << My dad couldn't get the right security
> clearance from NASA for a job he was doing for them in the 60's. His
> crime? He had gone to a Leadbelly concert way back when that was a
> fundraiser for some left wing group. He was also on the board of
directors
> for the Berkeley food co-op. Pretty nasty stuff. >>
>
> That was crazy.
>
> We met at the home of a schoolmate (who had moved in from NYC--suspicious
all
> on its own! <g>) to get her mom's advice about an underground newspaper at
> school (more arts than politics, by far). Her mom was working on a
newspaper
> called El Grito del Norte, which turned out to be funded by or related to
or
> something, communists. So for having bee at a meeting at Tessa
Konigsberg's
> house (she later took her mom's name, Martinez, to blend in in Espanola
> better), we got "files," and the school was warned to watch us.
>
> It didn't take much in those cold-war days.
>
> Tessa's family did go to Cuba every summer to pick coffee or cut cane or
> something. And so we were consorting with the friends of the enemy.
>
>
> Sandra
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sandra
>
> "Everything counts."
> http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
> http://expage.com/SandraDodd
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Vicki A. Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: patriotism and reality
> For those that think the "grandfather" clause is anything more than a big
> pile of what a bull leaves behind, check your history books to see if any
> law with a grandfather clause has ever lapses when it was suppose to be
> grandfathered out! AND, contrary to all the hot air the politicians are
> pushing out, all parts of that new law do NOT have a grandfather clause.
>
Don't you mean a "sunset" clause? "Grandfather" usually involves exceptions
to a new policy or new law based on already existing situations or grandfather
was allowed to own land, or keep livestock before area zoned,
or..................
vicki