Gender Roles and Unschooling
Jennifer Deets
My husband and I both work. He is a nurse and I am a professor. On the days he is at the hospital, I'm home and when I'm at the university, he's home. Occasionally we need to hire a babysitter for a few hours if a special meeting is called or something, but in general each of us has three days a week with the kids and one whole day (at least in theory) as a family. Sometimes it gets to be overwhelming, but the longer we do this, the less willing we would be to trade the beautiful time we have with our three children.
Part of why we unschool is to not just disrupt but to shatter the strong gender role socialization that occurs in schools and neighborhoods and on TV. When our oldest was 4, she turned to me and said, "Mommy, you're a teacher and daddy's a nurse, right?" I replied, "Yes." Then she looked at me straight in the eye and asked, "When I grow up can I be a nurse?" I told her that of course she could. Her reply? "I can?! You mean girls can be nurses?!"
I love this story! We really strive to share all household responsibilities -- cleaning, laundry, shopping, yard work, fixing up, going for medical appointments, and unschooling.
So, *finally* my reason for posting: how do the rest of you negotiate your family lives? Are gender roles a concern at all in your unschooling? Mostly moms are on these lists -- any dads or other men on this list who can respond from your point of view?
Thanks,
Jennifer
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Part of why we unschool is to not just disrupt but to shatter the strong gender role socialization that occurs in schools and neighborhoods and on TV. When our oldest was 4, she turned to me and said, "Mommy, you're a teacher and daddy's a nurse, right?" I replied, "Yes." Then she looked at me straight in the eye and asked, "When I grow up can I be a nurse?" I told her that of course she could. Her reply? "I can?! You mean girls can be nurses?!"
I love this story! We really strive to share all household responsibilities -- cleaning, laundry, shopping, yard work, fixing up, going for medical appointments, and unschooling.
So, *finally* my reason for posting: how do the rest of you negotiate your family lives? Are gender roles a concern at all in your unschooling? Mostly moms are on these lists -- any dads or other men on this list who can respond from your point of view?
Thanks,
Jennifer
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< "When I grow up can I be a nurse?" I told her that of course she could.
Her reply? "I can?! You mean girls can be nurses?!" >>
That's a good story!
My kids ask what I've done as jobs before. I've done administrative stuff,
teaching, and earlier-years restaurant (waitress, counter) stuff. Many of my
friends are childless, and the kids see all them go to work.
We have a family of close friends who live nearby. We've known them since
Kirby and their oldest girl (now 15 and 16) were babies, and we met in La
Leche League.
The parents assured us all they were going to raise their daughters with no
sexist biases. They did a good job of trying, and we were all cooperative as
could be. We had two more children, another boy for us, another girl for
them. We had another, a girl.
Frustratingly for them, their oldest, Lily, was VERY pink. While she would
play with boys' toys, she did it in a wimpy, girly way. Not from example,
but from personality. Meanwhile, Kirby was playing with dolls and all AND
boy toys, and they couldn't figure out what they were doing wrong.
All they were doing wrong was disregarding what the children wanted and
preferred and fantasized about. (And we lucked out with Kirby, in their eyes
<g>.)
When the oldest was five I found, at a thrift store, a sequined swim suit.
Not for swimming, I think, but like for a kid beauty pageant, or dance show.
It had an anchor with a ribbom around it, like an old sailor's tatoo, all
done in red, white and blue sequins, on a red and white swim suit. I
checked with her mom first, but I gave it to her and she LOVED it.
Nowadays Lily is not what anyone would consider girly. She wears practical
clothes, pursues "neutral" friends and activities, and her younger sister is
somewhat more feminine but neither is a squeally, make-up-wearing
shopping-girl at all.
Their parents are divorced, but live two blocks apart. The dad works at the
Harley Davidson shop (selling clothes and gifts) and the mom is living with a
woman; both of them work.
So that's the most extreme example I have in my close life. They tried hard
and the child still went through a decidedly girlie phase.
I think we've done pretty well with our kids. I wasn't willing to go to work
just to allow them to see their mom working, and my husband makes more money
as an engineer than I could make doing officework or teaching, although he's
willing to trade out (and might do a better job with the housekeeping if we
did, although we wouldn't be able to afford the house!).
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Her reply? "I can?! You mean girls can be nurses?!" >>
That's a good story!
My kids ask what I've done as jobs before. I've done administrative stuff,
teaching, and earlier-years restaurant (waitress, counter) stuff. Many of my
friends are childless, and the kids see all them go to work.
We have a family of close friends who live nearby. We've known them since
Kirby and their oldest girl (now 15 and 16) were babies, and we met in La
Leche League.
The parents assured us all they were going to raise their daughters with no
sexist biases. They did a good job of trying, and we were all cooperative as
could be. We had two more children, another boy for us, another girl for
them. We had another, a girl.
Frustratingly for them, their oldest, Lily, was VERY pink. While she would
play with boys' toys, she did it in a wimpy, girly way. Not from example,
but from personality. Meanwhile, Kirby was playing with dolls and all AND
boy toys, and they couldn't figure out what they were doing wrong.
All they were doing wrong was disregarding what the children wanted and
preferred and fantasized about. (And we lucked out with Kirby, in their eyes
<g>.)
When the oldest was five I found, at a thrift store, a sequined swim suit.
Not for swimming, I think, but like for a kid beauty pageant, or dance show.
It had an anchor with a ribbom around it, like an old sailor's tatoo, all
done in red, white and blue sequins, on a red and white swim suit. I
checked with her mom first, but I gave it to her and she LOVED it.
Nowadays Lily is not what anyone would consider girly. She wears practical
clothes, pursues "neutral" friends and activities, and her younger sister is
somewhat more feminine but neither is a squeally, make-up-wearing
shopping-girl at all.
Their parents are divorced, but live two blocks apart. The dad works at the
Harley Davidson shop (selling clothes and gifts) and the mom is living with a
woman; both of them work.
So that's the most extreme example I have in my close life. They tried hard
and the child still went through a decidedly girlie phase.
I think we've done pretty well with our kids. I wasn't willing to go to work
just to allow them to see their mom working, and my husband makes more money
as an engineer than I could make doing officework or teaching, although he's
willing to trade out (and might do a better job with the housekeeping if we
did, although we wouldn't be able to afford the house!).
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
I have one more gender role story.
Unschoolers used to meet at my house weekly.
One day six or seven of the four to six year olds were playing with Holly's
My Little Ponies in the den. They were making families, and houses, and some
had babies and some had two, and some had none, and they were working out the
relationships between different ponies. I passed through just as someone
said "They can't have a baby, they're both boys." And Holly said VERY
matter-of-factly, "They could adopt."
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Unschoolers used to meet at my house weekly.
One day six or seven of the four to six year olds were playing with Holly's
My Little Ponies in the den. They were making families, and houses, and some
had babies and some had two, and some had none, and they were working out the
relationships between different ponies. I passed through just as someone
said "They can't have a baby, they're both boys." And Holly said VERY
matter-of-factly, "They could adopt."
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
Gender roles are a concern for us. I have always stayed home with our
son while my husband has earned the income. In addition we live near
both Grandmothers, and a great Aunt who are all very traditional women.
Although my mom and her sister are complex characters, Jewish women with
very strong, domineering personalities, they both have old fashioned
ideas about gender.
Fortunately, by accident and by design, there are some positive examples
of gender equality in my son's life.
His doctor is a woman, our vet is a woman, a good friend -a burly, Harley
riding, ex-marine, ( man ) is a nurse. There are other family members
in non traditional occupations and a good female friend who is a heavy
equipment operator.
Even though I'm a "stay at home mom" I am not what you would call girly.
I have interests that are not exclusively female, and my husband is an
accomplished cook and can crochet like anything.
It all seems to be working. I have heard him question other people who
make sexist comments and have never noticed him making boy / girl
distinctions in regard to abilities or aspirations.
We also make a strong point of talking with him about sexist ( racist,
homophobic, whatever ) comments others make. We explore where these
beliefs come from and whether they're correct; how they're harmful and
how things might be made better.
He knows I am the one at home because his father makes more money in his
field than I would in mine, not because we are more suited to these roles
because of gender.
I still have worries though. It's everywhere isn't it? Women still get
thrilled over toilet bowl cleaners on TV and men still drive big trucks.
Saturday morning TV still has little girls with glittery, skinny, big
breasted Barbie and little boys with Tonka's.
Deb L
son while my husband has earned the income. In addition we live near
both Grandmothers, and a great Aunt who are all very traditional women.
Although my mom and her sister are complex characters, Jewish women with
very strong, domineering personalities, they both have old fashioned
ideas about gender.
Fortunately, by accident and by design, there are some positive examples
of gender equality in my son's life.
His doctor is a woman, our vet is a woman, a good friend -a burly, Harley
riding, ex-marine, ( man ) is a nurse. There are other family members
in non traditional occupations and a good female friend who is a heavy
equipment operator.
Even though I'm a "stay at home mom" I am not what you would call girly.
I have interests that are not exclusively female, and my husband is an
accomplished cook and can crochet like anything.
It all seems to be working. I have heard him question other people who
make sexist comments and have never noticed him making boy / girl
distinctions in regard to abilities or aspirations.
We also make a strong point of talking with him about sexist ( racist,
homophobic, whatever ) comments others make. We explore where these
beliefs come from and whether they're correct; how they're harmful and
how things might be made better.
He knows I am the one at home because his father makes more money in his
field than I would in mine, not because we are more suited to these roles
because of gender.
I still have worries though. It's everywhere isn't it? Women still get
thrilled over toilet bowl cleaners on TV and men still drive big trucks.
Saturday morning TV still has little girls with glittery, skinny, big
breasted Barbie and little boys with Tonka's.
Deb L
Teri Loftis
I also have a great gender role story. My friend had twins, a boy and a girl. She wanted to make sure that they both played with dolls and they both played with trucks...all that girl toy, boy toy, stuff was going to be eliminated in her house.
For their 4th birhtdays, she got them each a truck and each a doll. The kids both took their dolls to their rooms and the mom later wantered up to see how they were doing. The girl was burping, feeding, cuddling her baby and the little boy had his hangning out the window with a rope around its neck!
So, we have our traits, our genetics, our hormones. We also have personal preference.
Teri
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
For their 4th birhtdays, she got them each a truck and each a doll. The kids both took their dolls to their rooms and the mom later wantered up to see how they were doing. The girl was burping, feeding, cuddling her baby and the little boy had his hangning out the window with a rope around its neck!
So, we have our traits, our genetics, our hormones. We also have personal preference.
Teri
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
[email protected]
<< The girl was burping, feeding, cuddling her baby and the little boy had
his hangning out the window with a rope around its neck! >>
Now let's not read too much into this. We're not professional therapists.
HAAAAAHahaha. I tried not to laugh out loud because the teenaged boys (four,
today) were up until 3:30 playing something or other. Not dolls.
Kirby and Marty were glad to have a little sister come along. They each gave
her their anatomically-correct baby dolls ceremoniously and generously when
she was older (and I'm sure with some relief). Those dolls went for many
wagon rides and wheelbarrow rides and floated in the wading pool. They were
rarely dressed and cuddled except by me, their grandmother. <g>
Sandra
his hangning out the window with a rope around its neck! >>
Now let's not read too much into this. We're not professional therapists.
HAAAAAHahaha. I tried not to laugh out loud because the teenaged boys (four,
today) were up until 3:30 playing something or other. Not dolls.
Kirby and Marty were glad to have a little sister come along. They each gave
her their anatomically-correct baby dolls ceremoniously and generously when
she was older (and I'm sure with some relief). Those dolls went for many
wagon rides and wheelbarrow rides and floated in the wading pool. They were
rarely dressed and cuddled except by me, their grandmother. <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Teri Loftis" <itsmeeteri@l...> wrote:
Hope that doesn't read too much into how the little boy will act when
he is a father someday!
Karin
>The girl was burping, feeding, cuddling her baby and the little boyhad his hangning out the window with a rope around its neck!>
>Thanks for the funny story Teri. I laughed out loud at that one.
Hope that doesn't read too much into how the little boy will act when
he is a father someday!
Karin
Cleopatra Rojas
Hi All, Jacli here :)
loved your story :)
I have to say for us gender roles are not necessarily a
concern but there have
been bumpy moments. My husband comes from a family that
does believe in
very specific gender roles (men are the rulers and wage
earners and women
are the longsuffering house servants). I don't. I had
thought we had come a long way until
recently when my daughter said something about "yeah, but
he's a man. Men
aren't supposed to clean the house. Men do the working." I
almost passed out. I was like 'I'm sorry,
are you new here?!
So I guess we have more work to do :) I was in shock. But
I realized afterwards
that she has only known me as a stay at home Mommy. Mommy
who is the primary caregiver and is
always with her (remember I work from home) while Papa goes
out to work. Mommy
who does all the cooking and cleaning. I tried to explain
to her that Papa and I agreed
long ago that we would each do what needs doing when we can
do it. I do the cooking
because I'm here and in a position to do it - if I were
working outside the house and Papa
were home I'd expect him to do it, no big deal. I do the
cleaning because I want it done right.
We both work, right now Papa works out of the house but as
soon as it is feasible he'll be
working right at home, beside me. I do the majority of the
teaching but that is only because
I happen to be here. (and I have a *lot more patience, all
hail me :) I don't know how much
it helped her understand because she shot me one of those
"uh,huh" looks.
So, I thought we had taken care of the gender demon long
ago but I guess our womens studies
and her-story classes are not quite enough. Any
suggestions?
Thanks,Jacli
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
> From: "Jennifer Deets" <jdeets@...>you negotiate your
>So, *finally* my reason for posting: how do the rest of
>family lives? Are gender roles a concern at all in yourunschooling?
>Mostly moms are on these lists -- any dads or other men onthis list who
>can respond from your point of view?<Wow -those are pretty loaded questions - I love em. I also
loved your story :)
I have to say for us gender roles are not necessarily a
concern but there have
been bumpy moments. My husband comes from a family that
does believe in
very specific gender roles (men are the rulers and wage
earners and women
are the longsuffering house servants). I don't. I had
thought we had come a long way until
recently when my daughter said something about "yeah, but
he's a man. Men
aren't supposed to clean the house. Men do the working." I
almost passed out. I was like 'I'm sorry,
are you new here?!
So I guess we have more work to do :) I was in shock. But
I realized afterwards
that she has only known me as a stay at home Mommy. Mommy
who is the primary caregiver and is
always with her (remember I work from home) while Papa goes
out to work. Mommy
who does all the cooking and cleaning. I tried to explain
to her that Papa and I agreed
long ago that we would each do what needs doing when we can
do it. I do the cooking
because I'm here and in a position to do it - if I were
working outside the house and Papa
were home I'd expect him to do it, no big deal. I do the
cleaning because I want it done right.
We both work, right now Papa works out of the house but as
soon as it is feasible he'll be
working right at home, beside me. I do the majority of the
teaching but that is only because
I happen to be here. (and I have a *lot more patience, all
hail me :) I don't know how much
it helped her understand because she shot me one of those
"uh,huh" looks.
So, I thought we had taken care of the gender demon long
ago but I guess our womens studies
and her-story classes are not quite enough. Any
suggestions?
Thanks,Jacli
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 05:04:34 -0400professor..
>Subject: Gender Roles and Unschooling
>
>My husband and I both work. He is a nurse and I am a
> When our oldest was 4, she turned to me and said, "Mommy,you're a
>teacher and daddy's a nurse, right?" I replied, "Yes."Then she looked at
>me straight in the eye and asked, "When I grow up can I bea nurse?" I
>told her that of course she could. Her reply? "I can?! Youmean girls can
>be nurses?!" I love this story! <
>
>
>Thanks,
>Jennifer