Tell it like it is.
Pam Hartley
----------
Oprah, but has done a lot of other really cool things.
Oprah calls Phil's style "Tell it like it is".
I remember one story of his of how he was REALLY bad as a marriage
counselor, because a couple would come in, each would talk for awhile, Dr.
Phil would say, "Okay, here's what you can do" and offer a reasonable
solution based on action.
The couples didn't like this. They wanted to spend years with Phil couching
things nicely and talking about their feelings instead of their actions.
I like it when people tell me like it is. If I disagree with them on that, I
am free to ignore their advice. NOBODY here is following anybody else home
and making sure they do as they're told.
Take or leave what you read, here or anywhere. I find advice that is NOT
tell it like it is very annoying to me personally. Sweet and wimpy just
doesn't do it for me. So what? I need to deal with that irritant on my own
-- I am still free to take the advice or leave it, nor is it up to me to
tell someone they should be more direct.
Pam
Pam
>From: [email protected]I'm a fan of Dr. Phil McGraw, who is most famous for his appearances on
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1508
>Date: Fri, Sep 28, 2001, 8:40 AM
>
> But if I said, "Well, the first thing you need to do is stop trying to
> make them eat vanilla." that has an entirely different tone. I think it's
> truth, but it doesn't allow the personal respect and freedom. And as the
> counselors say, it's about using more *I* statements and less *you*
> statements.
Oprah, but has done a lot of other really cool things.
Oprah calls Phil's style "Tell it like it is".
I remember one story of his of how he was REALLY bad as a marriage
counselor, because a couple would come in, each would talk for awhile, Dr.
Phil would say, "Okay, here's what you can do" and offer a reasonable
solution based on action.
The couples didn't like this. They wanted to spend years with Phil couching
things nicely and talking about their feelings instead of their actions.
I like it when people tell me like it is. If I disagree with them on that, I
am free to ignore their advice. NOBODY here is following anybody else home
and making sure they do as they're told.
Take or leave what you read, here or anywhere. I find advice that is NOT
tell it like it is very annoying to me personally. Sweet and wimpy just
doesn't do it for me. So what? I need to deal with that irritant on my own
-- I am still free to take the advice or leave it, nor is it up to me to
tell someone they should be more direct.
Pam
Pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/29/2001 7:46:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamhartley@... writes:
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamhartley@... writes:
> I'm a fan of Dr. Phil McGraw, who is most famous for his appearances onAnd I can't stand him. Just goes to show you! :)
> Oprah, but has done a lot of other really cool things.
>
>
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
Pam Hartley wrote:
people he is advising. She thinks that they are (sometimes) humiliated by the
advice and she thinks it's rude and wrong for him to give advice that way.
(But it's true that they asked for advice and consented to receive it
publicly.)
My theory about advice is that it's "better" to give people information and let
them draw their own conclusions. People tend to prefer conclusions that they
have reached in their own minds and tend to reject conclusions that seem pushed
at them, by-passing the personal mental processing stage. Now, admitedly,
people in my family are of the stubborn, nose-cutting-off-to-spite-face
persuasion. (Which may come from insecurity and fear of being dominated.) So
my sample may be non-representative of the population as a whole.
Betsy
> I'm a fan of Dr. Phil McGraw, who is most famous for his appearances onI really enjoy Doctor Phil, but my good friend feels aching empathy for the
> Oprah, but has done a lot of other really cool things.
>
> Oprah calls Phil's style "Tell it like it is".
>
> I remember one story of his of how he was REALLY bad as a marriage
> counselor, because a couple would come in, each would talk for awhile, Dr.
> Phil would say, "Okay, here's what you can do" and offer a reasonable
> solution based on action.
>
> The couples didn't like this. They wanted to spend years with Phil couching
> things nicely and talking about their feelings instead of their actions.
people he is advising. She thinks that they are (sometimes) humiliated by the
advice and she thinks it's rude and wrong for him to give advice that way.
(But it's true that they asked for advice and consented to receive it
publicly.)
My theory about advice is that it's "better" to give people information and let
them draw their own conclusions. People tend to prefer conclusions that they
have reached in their own minds and tend to reject conclusions that seem pushed
at them, by-passing the personal mental processing stage. Now, admitedly,
people in my family are of the stubborn, nose-cutting-off-to-spite-face
persuasion. (Which may come from insecurity and fear of being dominated.) So
my sample may be non-representative of the population as a whole.
Betsy
Elizabeth Hill
>Hi, Nance --
> > I'm a fan of Dr. Phil McGraw, who is most famous for his appearances on Oprah, but has done a lot of other really cool things.
> >
> >
> And I can't stand him. Just goes to show you! :)
>
> Nance
This is not personally aimed at you, but I got the idea when reading your
post.
I've been wondering if the difference in how people feel about
confrontation and blunt advice has to do with how much any person values
group harmony and feels pressure (or impulses) to accomodate others.
I'm sure that people vary on this characteristic and am not sure if it
is cultural (as in Japan) or genetic (coming from brain chemistry).
I know people vary in this quality. I suspect there are both cultural
and genetic components in how accomodating and harmonious people are
inclined to be. I'm one of the "to hell with harmony, I enjoy
disonnance and dissent because it stimulates my brain" people. (Well...
not at parties....) But I know that humans evolved to be tribal and to
bond and cooperate with each other in profound ways. So I know that
group harmony has a place, but it's just not something that I really
"get" on a gut level. "What would the neighbors think?" is not
something that I spend any time on.
(That last sentence does not mean that I think other people are wrong if
they consider what their neighbors think. Just different from me.)
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/4/2001 12:09:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
off the wagon and girls marry the guy nobody approves of, etc. Some of us
just have to go thru things and make mistakes and figure it out for ourselves
to learn. You can lead a horse to water and all that.
Then there is the rebellion factor -- just this AM I had a good example of
that in myself. DH had a perfectly fine suggestion about trimming a tree I
am battling in the backyard. "If you put the ladder here, then cut the
branches, they will fall that way and not hit this and it will work better."
I immediately balked!! "How dare he tell me how to trim a gosh darn tree??
I'm a grown woman. I think I know how to trim a tree after all. Harumph!"
Then I realized he was right.
But there was that immediate reaction to resist being told how to do
something.
Not always a bad thing but not always a good thing.
BTW, the tree is looking much smaller now -- about 1/2 done!
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
> My theory about advice is that it's "better" to give people information andI think this is true for a lot of people -- why diets fail and people fall
> let
> them draw their own conclusions. People tend to prefer conclusions that
> they
> have reached in their own minds and tend to reject conclusions that seem
> pushed
> at them, by-passing the personal mental processing stage.
off the wagon and girls marry the guy nobody approves of, etc. Some of us
just have to go thru things and make mistakes and figure it out for ourselves
to learn. You can lead a horse to water and all that.
Then there is the rebellion factor -- just this AM I had a good example of
that in myself. DH had a perfectly fine suggestion about trimming a tree I
am battling in the backyard. "If you put the ladder here, then cut the
branches, they will fall that way and not hit this and it will work better."
I immediately balked!! "How dare he tell me how to trim a gosh darn tree??
I'm a grown woman. I think I know how to trim a tree after all. Harumph!"
Then I realized he was right.
But there was that immediate reaction to resist being told how to do
something.
Not always a bad thing but not always a good thing.
BTW, the tree is looking much smaller now -- about 1/2 done!
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/4/2001 12:11:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
I agree that there do seem to be these different types of personalities.
Nature vs. nurture -- who the heck knows?
Good question though!!
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
> ....) But I know that humans evolved to be tribal and toYou non-confrontational person you! :)
> bond and cooperate with each other in profound ways. So I know that
> group harmony has a place, but it's just not something that I really
> "get" on a gut level. "What would the neighbors think?" is not
> something that I spend any time on.
>
> (That last sentence does not mean that I think other people are wrong if
> they consider what their neighbors think. Just different from me.)
>
> Betsy
>
I agree that there do seem to be these different types of personalities.
Nature vs. nurture -- who the heck knows?
Good question though!!
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Maybe there is a third type, which would be moi <g>
I'd be perfectly happy to live as a hermit, do not give a dead or alive
rat's patooty what other folks think, don't care one way or another about
group harmony but, as the kidlets inform, I become instant momma grizzly if
I see someone berating or unnecessarily "harming" another person in any way,
shape or form.
I mean, take Dr. Phil (please <g>) for example. He spends a few minutes
behind the scenes interviewing folks. Now, if you have ever been on
television or in front of a large group, particularly for the first time,
lots of folks suddenly find that it isn't quite what they expected. But he
doesn't seem to take this into consideration and back off or temper his
rampage to fit the individual.
I watched one poor woman literally squirm and turn beat red and the more she
tried to explain her own individual situation, the more he "attacked" her.
She was embarassed and frequently when embarassed, folks aren't as
articulate as they would be if they didn't know a million people would be
watching them.
At any rate, I just wanted to shake him and say, "Hey, slow down and treat
this woman with a little respect and get off your high horse." I mean, he
is supposedly a professional, so shouldn't he be able to discern the
difference between someone who can take his in your face style and someone
who can't and adjust accordingly???
There is "telling it like it is" and there is verbal abuse. he frequently
crosses the line, IMNSHO <g>
So, was I clear as mud again????
Lynda
I'd be perfectly happy to live as a hermit, do not give a dead or alive
rat's patooty what other folks think, don't care one way or another about
group harmony but, as the kidlets inform, I become instant momma grizzly if
I see someone berating or unnecessarily "harming" another person in any way,
shape or form.
I mean, take Dr. Phil (please <g>) for example. He spends a few minutes
behind the scenes interviewing folks. Now, if you have ever been on
television or in front of a large group, particularly for the first time,
lots of folks suddenly find that it isn't quite what they expected. But he
doesn't seem to take this into consideration and back off or temper his
rampage to fit the individual.
I watched one poor woman literally squirm and turn beat red and the more she
tried to explain her own individual situation, the more he "attacked" her.
She was embarassed and frequently when embarassed, folks aren't as
articulate as they would be if they didn't know a million people would be
watching them.
At any rate, I just wanted to shake him and say, "Hey, slow down and treat
this woman with a little respect and get off your high horse." I mean, he
is supposedly a professional, so shouldn't he be able to discern the
difference between someone who can take his in your face style and someone
who can't and adjust accordingly???
There is "telling it like it is" and there is verbal abuse. he frequently
crosses the line, IMNSHO <g>
So, was I clear as mud again????
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Elizabeth Hill <ecsamhill@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Tell it like it is.
> Hi, Nance --
>
> This is not personally aimed at you, but I got the idea when reading your
> post.
>
> I've been wondering if the difference in how people feel about
> confrontation and blunt advice has to do with how much any person values
> group harmony and feels pressure (or impulses) to accomodate others.
> I'm sure that people vary on this characteristic and am not sure if it
> is cultural (as in Japan) or genetic (coming from brain chemistry).
>
> I know people vary in this quality. I suspect there are both cultural
> and genetic components in how accomodating and harmonious people are
> inclined to be. I'm one of the "to hell with harmony, I enjoy
> disonnance and dissent because it stimulates my brain" people. (Well...
> not at parties....) But I know that humans evolved to be tribal and to
> bond and cooperate with each other in profound ways. So I know that
> group harmony has a place, but it's just not something that I really
> "get" on a gut level. "What would the neighbors think?" is not
> something that I spend any time on.
>
> (That last sentence does not mean that I think other people are wrong if
> they consider what their neighbors think. Just different from me.)
>
> Betsy
>
>
>
>
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>
Elizabeth Hill
Lynda wrote:
"assisting". I think his focus is on making very dramatic television. And
he's willing to ride roughshod over people's feelings to achieve that.
(Not that I think that's a GOOD thing.)
I think after watching for several weeks I became desensitized and stopped
identifying with the clients. Hmmmmm.
Betsy
> Maybe there is a third type, which would be moi <g><snip>
>
> <snip>
>
> I mean, take Dr. Phil (please <g>) for example.
>I think he isn't empathizing at all with the one or two people he is
>
> I watched one poor woman literally squirm and turn beat red and the more she
> tried to explain her own individual situation, the more he "attacked" her.
> She was embarassed and frequently when embarassed, folks aren't as
> articulate as they would be if they didn't know a million people would be
> watching them.
>
> At any rate, I just wanted to shake him and say, "Hey, slow down and treat
> this woman with a little respect and get off your high horse." I mean, he
> is supposedly a professional, so shouldn't he be able to discern the
> difference between someone who can take his in your face style and someone
> who can't and adjust accordingly???
>
> There is "telling it like it is" and there is verbal abuse. he frequently
> crosses the line, IMNSHO <g>
>
"assisting". I think his focus is on making very dramatic television. And
he's willing to ride roughshod over people's feelings to achieve that.
(Not that I think that's a GOOD thing.)
I think after watching for several weeks I became desensitized and stopped
identifying with the clients. Hmmmmm.
Betsy