Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Deeper Wound
[email protected]
<< Tribal warfare has been going on for two thousand years and has now been
magnified globally. >>
Where did he get that number?
How long have there been people on earth?
NATIONAL warfare has been going on more than two thousand years, and tribal
since way before.
<< And I asked myself, Why didn't I feel this way last week? >>
Because people who live with that feeling too long get used to it. If they
don't get used to it it makes them sick, or dead. Shock turns into other
things after a while. People can't physically live in a state of shock.
Deepak Chopra grew up Hindu, didn't he? It's a really peaceful religion.
There aren't many of those in the world. And it didn't save India from
England or from the religious wars there which spawned Pakistan (East and
West) and then Bangladesh. Their beliefs about their soul's immediate future
are much different from the beliefs of their own Moslem neighbors, and from
most Americans.
Less than two weeks before the attacks here, Keith and I had told our kids
about Japanese kamikaze fighters in WWII, and how their religious and
cultural beliefs allowed for suicide which our own culture declares sinful
and illegal, and soul-damning. Now we're up against another religion and
culture which also allows and sometimes glorifies self-immolation. We can't
change their history or their culture or what their religious leaders say.
We can't change what the Koran says.
We could lie down and be peaceful until we're all dead. We could die
wishfully hoping that our wishful hoping could avert millions of believers in
other religions. That's a lot of what religion is anyway---what were you
believing at the moment of your death? And then hoping it matters.
This isn't simple and can't be made simple by either warmongers, peaceniks,
nor anyone in between. it's just going to be something we have to get
through philosophically and practically without blaming other people's
thoughts for "causing" it. And I don't think Jerry Falwell's right that
commies, homosexuals, feminists and the American Civil Liberties Union caused
it either. (I'm sure I've left a couple of guilty parties off his list, but
he also cited the pursuit of health and wealth, so tofu eaters and
exercise-bikers helped cause it too, according to *that* "man of God.")
I'm not trying to be negative, I'm trying to be realistic. I'm trying to
turn the lights on in a place in which people seem to be hoping they can wish
away human instinct and manifest human nature.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
magnified globally. >>
Where did he get that number?
How long have there been people on earth?
NATIONAL warfare has been going on more than two thousand years, and tribal
since way before.
<< And I asked myself, Why didn't I feel this way last week? >>
Because people who live with that feeling too long get used to it. If they
don't get used to it it makes them sick, or dead. Shock turns into other
things after a while. People can't physically live in a state of shock.
Deepak Chopra grew up Hindu, didn't he? It's a really peaceful religion.
There aren't many of those in the world. And it didn't save India from
England or from the religious wars there which spawned Pakistan (East and
West) and then Bangladesh. Their beliefs about their soul's immediate future
are much different from the beliefs of their own Moslem neighbors, and from
most Americans.
Less than two weeks before the attacks here, Keith and I had told our kids
about Japanese kamikaze fighters in WWII, and how their religious and
cultural beliefs allowed for suicide which our own culture declares sinful
and illegal, and soul-damning. Now we're up against another religion and
culture which also allows and sometimes glorifies self-immolation. We can't
change their history or their culture or what their religious leaders say.
We can't change what the Koran says.
We could lie down and be peaceful until we're all dead. We could die
wishfully hoping that our wishful hoping could avert millions of believers in
other religions. That's a lot of what religion is anyway---what were you
believing at the moment of your death? And then hoping it matters.
This isn't simple and can't be made simple by either warmongers, peaceniks,
nor anyone in between. it's just going to be something we have to get
through philosophically and practically without blaming other people's
thoughts for "causing" it. And I don't think Jerry Falwell's right that
commies, homosexuals, feminists and the American Civil Liberties Union caused
it either. (I'm sure I've left a couple of guilty parties off his list, but
he also cited the pursuit of health and wealth, so tofu eaters and
exercise-bikers helped cause it too, according to *that* "man of God.")
I'm not trying to be negative, I'm trying to be realistic. I'm trying to
turn the lights on in a place in which people seem to be hoping they can wish
away human instinct and manifest human nature.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Sarah Carothers
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Deeper Wound
snip
<I'm trying to
turn the lights on in a place in which people seem to be hoping they can wish
away human instinct and manifest human nature.
Sandra
>>>>>>>>>
I don't think we need you to turn on any lights for us, Sandra. Please let people have their opinions and feelings without having to constantly criticize them or "correct" them.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< I don't think we need you to turn on any lights for us, Sandra. Please
let people have their opinions and feelings without having to constantly
criticize them or "correct" them. >>
Can I have and express an opinion too?
Opinions in people's houses all over the world are their private opinions,
but those expressed on discussion lists are open to discussion.
Sandra
let people have their opinions and feelings without having to constantly
criticize them or "correct" them. >>
Can I have and express an opinion too?
Opinions in people's houses all over the world are their private opinions,
but those expressed on discussion lists are open to discussion.
Sandra
[email protected]
Hinduism is the third largest organized religion in the world
accounting for approximately 15% --900 million-- of the people who
define themselves as being of a particular religion.
Christianity is first with 2 billion and Islam is second with 1.3
billion.
All religions present themselves as peaceful yet radical factions
within them have consistantly throughout history been the driving
force behind some of the worst atrocities perpetrated against mankind.
Even with large numbers, the "peaceful" religions or the members of
all religions which are all based on some premise of peace, have not
been successful in securing that peace.
Tery
accounting for approximately 15% --900 million-- of the people who
define themselves as being of a particular religion.
Christianity is first with 2 billion and Islam is second with 1.3
billion.
All religions present themselves as peaceful yet radical factions
within them have consistantly throughout history been the driving
force behind some of the worst atrocities perpetrated against mankind.
Even with large numbers, the "peaceful" religions or the members of
all religions which are all based on some premise of peace, have not
been successful in securing that peace.
Tery
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> Deepak Chopra grew up Hindu, didn't he? It's a really peaceful
religion.
> There aren't many of those in the world. >
> Sandra
>
> "Everything counts."
> http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
> http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Fetteroll
on 9/16/01 12:52 PM, "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...> wrote:
others' mouths that they wouldn't have put there themselves. Personally I
thought Sandra's comment was thought provoking. I hadn't looked at it in
that way before.
Opinions and feelings are as common as dirt.
Thinking is a whole lot rarer. (It's good brain exercise by the way.)
Challenging the logic and facts in someone's opinion doesn't take away their
right to hold onto it or express it. But encouraging an atmosphere that
allows opinions to be expressed without fear of challenge is suggesting
politeness is more important than thought and truthfulness.
Essentially telling someone who is not breaking the rules of the list to
shut up steps on their right to free expression. If anyone doesn't like the
way someone else on the list expresses themselves, they have the right to
click on delete.
Joyce
> I don't think we need you to turn on any lights for us, Sandra. Please letIt's usually safest if we speak only for ourselves, lest we put words in
> people have their opinions and feelings without having to constantly criticize
> them or "correct" them.
others' mouths that they wouldn't have put there themselves. Personally I
thought Sandra's comment was thought provoking. I hadn't looked at it in
that way before.
Opinions and feelings are as common as dirt.
Thinking is a whole lot rarer. (It's good brain exercise by the way.)
Challenging the logic and facts in someone's opinion doesn't take away their
right to hold onto it or express it. But encouraging an atmosphere that
allows opinions to be expressed without fear of challenge is suggesting
politeness is more important than thought and truthfulness.
Essentially telling someone who is not breaking the rules of the list to
shut up steps on their right to free expression. If anyone doesn't like the
way someone else on the list expresses themselves, they have the right to
click on delete.
Joyce
Sarah Carothers
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 6:15 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: The Deeper Wound
<<But encouraging an atmosphere that
allows opinions to be expressed without fear of challenge is suggesting
politeness is more important than thought and truthfulness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IMO politeness will promote more offering of opinions because people won't be worried about being attacked if they post something. This list has something like 500 members. Look at how many of those members regularly post. Do the numbers look a little bit skewed to you? Wonder why *the rest* of those members don't post....
<<<Essentially telling someone who is not breaking the rules of the list to
shut up steps on their right to free expression. If anyone doesn't like the
way someone else on the list expresses themselves, they have the right to
click on delete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It's just as bad as suggesting that they leave the list. But you're right... suggesting to use their delete key would be a much wiser thing to do than to suggest that this list isn't meant for them or is perhaps not what they're looking for.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
----------
of all members of all mailing lists everywhere do not post, or post
extremely rarely. Find me one list administrator anywhere who has a
discussion list numbering more than, oh, say, 50 or so who has more than 25%
(and that's probably very high) posting weekly or bi-weekly, I'd be
fascinated to talk to them.
Some subscribers don't even read the posts, or don't read them regularly.
I'm on two mailing lists right now that I haven't read in months -- I get
the digests and immediately delete. I keep them active simply because I'm
thinking I might want to start using them again "sometime" and it's easier
just to hit a delete key once a day than it is to unsubscribe and
resubscribe later. I deleted THIS list for months before I started reading
again. I was not sitting quaking in a corner fearful that the big meanies on
the list would stomp me, I was just busy with other things.
Some read sometimes or all the time but don't want to write. I am on a
couple of other lists where I read but almost never (like, once every few
months I'll pipe up with a paragraph) write. I am there simply to gather
information, not to chat. I don't participate for varying reasons: lack of
time, lack of knowledge, wanting to be under the radar for business reasons.
There are people who are afraid of any number of things including being
asked to think about their beliefs and yes, if they sit up publicly on a
list and speak, afraid to examine those beliefs. No one here is forced to
post, nor are they forced to respond to anything anyone writes. If Joe
Poster comes on tomorrow and says that his child is unschooling at a nice
Swiss Boarding School and 47 of us say, "WHAT?! That's not unschooling!" Joe
Poster is completely free to respond OR NOT.
I am on an extremely polite homeschooling list and it's excruciatingly
boring (the one I said recently I use for insomnia-control). It does not
promote more offering of opinions, it squelches opinions ruthlessly because
no one is allowed to disagree with anyone else. It is not my favorite list,
though it's useful for homeschooling legal news in my state.
It would be sad to me if something as vivid with possibilities as an
unschooling list became my new cure for insomnia. It would be even sadder if
the brave (and relatively) new word, unschooling, came to mean "whatever
anyone wants it to mean".
There are many fine terms out there to describe what some here are trying to
insist is unschooling: eclectic homeschooling, relaxed homeschooling, etc. I
join in the bafflement of those who have said they don't understand why
people who are patently NOT unschooling insist that they are. In my cynicism
I suspect that because unschooling seems avant garde and dangerous and edgy
the very name and idea of it attracts some.
I'm trying to eat less meat, but I'm not a vegetarian. I'm trying to be less
coercive with my children, but I'm not a TCS parent. I once kissed a girl,
but I don't go around claiming to be a lesbian to make myself seem more
interesting. I suppose I could. I could claim to be a lesbian who really
only likes to have sex with men, and fight to the end insisting that my
definition of "lesbian" is as valid as anyone else's. I wonder how most
members of a lesbian support list would react to my claims (after they
finished laughing at me)?
This list is in existence to support unschooling. As we can see from the
recent plethora of posts, such a goal isn't easy. Worthwhile things almost
never are.
Pam
>From: [email protected]In my considerable experience with internet mailing lists, the vast majority
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1484
>Date: Mon, Sep 17, 2001, 10:45 PM
>
> IMO politeness will promote more offering of opinions because people won't
> be worried about being attacked if they post something. This list has
> something like 500 members. Look at how many of those members regularly
> post. Do the numbers look a little bit skewed to you? Wonder why *the rest*
> of those members don't post....
of all members of all mailing lists everywhere do not post, or post
extremely rarely. Find me one list administrator anywhere who has a
discussion list numbering more than, oh, say, 50 or so who has more than 25%
(and that's probably very high) posting weekly or bi-weekly, I'd be
fascinated to talk to them.
Some subscribers don't even read the posts, or don't read them regularly.
I'm on two mailing lists right now that I haven't read in months -- I get
the digests and immediately delete. I keep them active simply because I'm
thinking I might want to start using them again "sometime" and it's easier
just to hit a delete key once a day than it is to unsubscribe and
resubscribe later. I deleted THIS list for months before I started reading
again. I was not sitting quaking in a corner fearful that the big meanies on
the list would stomp me, I was just busy with other things.
Some read sometimes or all the time but don't want to write. I am on a
couple of other lists where I read but almost never (like, once every few
months I'll pipe up with a paragraph) write. I am there simply to gather
information, not to chat. I don't participate for varying reasons: lack of
time, lack of knowledge, wanting to be under the radar for business reasons.
There are people who are afraid of any number of things including being
asked to think about their beliefs and yes, if they sit up publicly on a
list and speak, afraid to examine those beliefs. No one here is forced to
post, nor are they forced to respond to anything anyone writes. If Joe
Poster comes on tomorrow and says that his child is unschooling at a nice
Swiss Boarding School and 47 of us say, "WHAT?! That's not unschooling!" Joe
Poster is completely free to respond OR NOT.
I am on an extremely polite homeschooling list and it's excruciatingly
boring (the one I said recently I use for insomnia-control). It does not
promote more offering of opinions, it squelches opinions ruthlessly because
no one is allowed to disagree with anyone else. It is not my favorite list,
though it's useful for homeschooling legal news in my state.
It would be sad to me if something as vivid with possibilities as an
unschooling list became my new cure for insomnia. It would be even sadder if
the brave (and relatively) new word, unschooling, came to mean "whatever
anyone wants it to mean".
There are many fine terms out there to describe what some here are trying to
insist is unschooling: eclectic homeschooling, relaxed homeschooling, etc. I
join in the bafflement of those who have said they don't understand why
people who are patently NOT unschooling insist that they are. In my cynicism
I suspect that because unschooling seems avant garde and dangerous and edgy
the very name and idea of it attracts some.
I'm trying to eat less meat, but I'm not a vegetarian. I'm trying to be less
coercive with my children, but I'm not a TCS parent. I once kissed a girl,
but I don't go around claiming to be a lesbian to make myself seem more
interesting. I suppose I could. I could claim to be a lesbian who really
only likes to have sex with men, and fight to the end insisting that my
definition of "lesbian" is as valid as anyone else's. I wonder how most
members of a lesbian support list would react to my claims (after they
finished laughing at me)?
This list is in existence to support unschooling. As we can see from the
recent plethora of posts, such a goal isn't easy. Worthwhile things almost
never are.
Pam
Pam Hartley
----------
of all members of all mailing lists everywhere do not post, or post
extremely rarely. Find me one list administrator anywhere who has a
discussion list numbering more than, oh, say, 50 or so who has more than 25%
(and that's probably very high) posting weekly or bi-weekly, I'd be
fascinated to talk to them.
Some subscribers don't even read the posts, or don't read them regularly.
I'm on two mailing lists right now that I haven't read in months -- I get
the digests and immediately delete. I keep them active simply because I'm
thinking I might want to start using them again "sometime" and it's easier
just to hit a delete key once a day than it is to unsubscribe and
resubscribe later. I deleted THIS list for months before I started reading
again. I was not sitting quaking in a corner fearful that the big meanies on
the list would stomp me, I was just busy with other things.
Some read sometimes or all the time but don't want to write. I am on a
couple of other lists where I read but almost never (like, once every few
months I'll pipe up with a paragraph) write. I am there simply to gather
information, not to chat. I don't participate for varying reasons: lack of
time, lack of knowledge, wanting to be under the radar for business reasons.
There are people who are afraid of any number of things including being
asked to think about their beliefs and yes, if they sit up publicly on a
list and speak, afraid to examine those beliefs. No one here is forced to
post, nor are they forced to respond to anything anyone writes. If Joe
Poster comes on tomorrow and says that his child is unschooling at a nice
Swiss Boarding School and 47 of us say, "WHAT?! That's not unschooling!" Joe
Poster is completely free to respond OR NOT.
I am on an extremely polite homeschooling list and it's excruciatingly
boring (the one I said recently I use for insomnia-control). It does not
promote more offering of opinions, it squelches opinions ruthlessly because
no one is allowed to disagree with anyone else. It is not my favorite list,
though it's useful for homeschooling legal news in my state.
It would be sad to me if something as vivid with possibilities as an
unschooling list became my new cure for insomnia. It would be even sadder if
the brave (and relatively) new word, unschooling, came to mean "whatever
anyone wants it to mean".
There are many fine terms out there to describe what some here are trying to
insist is unschooling: eclectic homeschooling, relaxed homeschooling, etc. I
join in the bafflement of those who have said they don't understand why
people who are patently NOT unschooling insist that they are. In my cynicism
I suspect that because unschooling seems avant garde and dangerous and edgy
the very name and idea of it attracts some.
I'm trying to eat less meat, but I'm not a vegetarian. I'm trying to be less
coercive with my children, but I'm not a TCS parent. I once kissed a girl,
but I don't go around claiming to be a lesbian to make myself seem more
interesting. I suppose I could. I could claim to be a lesbian who really
only likes to have sex with men, and fight to the end insisting that my
definition of "lesbian" is as valid as anyone else's. I wonder how most
members of a lesbian support list would react to my claims (after they
finished laughing at me)?
This list is in existence to support unschooling. As we can see from the
recent plethora of posts, such a goal isn't easy. Worthwhile things almost
never are.
Pam
>From: [email protected]In my considerable experience with internet mailing lists, the vast majority
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1484
>Date: Mon, Sep 17, 2001, 10:45 PM
>
> IMO politeness will promote more offering of opinions because people won't
> be worried about being attacked if they post something. This list has
> something like 500 members. Look at how many of those members regularly
> post. Do the numbers look a little bit skewed to you? Wonder why *the rest*
> of those members don't post....
of all members of all mailing lists everywhere do not post, or post
extremely rarely. Find me one list administrator anywhere who has a
discussion list numbering more than, oh, say, 50 or so who has more than 25%
(and that's probably very high) posting weekly or bi-weekly, I'd be
fascinated to talk to them.
Some subscribers don't even read the posts, or don't read them regularly.
I'm on two mailing lists right now that I haven't read in months -- I get
the digests and immediately delete. I keep them active simply because I'm
thinking I might want to start using them again "sometime" and it's easier
just to hit a delete key once a day than it is to unsubscribe and
resubscribe later. I deleted THIS list for months before I started reading
again. I was not sitting quaking in a corner fearful that the big meanies on
the list would stomp me, I was just busy with other things.
Some read sometimes or all the time but don't want to write. I am on a
couple of other lists where I read but almost never (like, once every few
months I'll pipe up with a paragraph) write. I am there simply to gather
information, not to chat. I don't participate for varying reasons: lack of
time, lack of knowledge, wanting to be under the radar for business reasons.
There are people who are afraid of any number of things including being
asked to think about their beliefs and yes, if they sit up publicly on a
list and speak, afraid to examine those beliefs. No one here is forced to
post, nor are they forced to respond to anything anyone writes. If Joe
Poster comes on tomorrow and says that his child is unschooling at a nice
Swiss Boarding School and 47 of us say, "WHAT?! That's not unschooling!" Joe
Poster is completely free to respond OR NOT.
I am on an extremely polite homeschooling list and it's excruciatingly
boring (the one I said recently I use for insomnia-control). It does not
promote more offering of opinions, it squelches opinions ruthlessly because
no one is allowed to disagree with anyone else. It is not my favorite list,
though it's useful for homeschooling legal news in my state.
It would be sad to me if something as vivid with possibilities as an
unschooling list became my new cure for insomnia. It would be even sadder if
the brave (and relatively) new word, unschooling, came to mean "whatever
anyone wants it to mean".
There are many fine terms out there to describe what some here are trying to
insist is unschooling: eclectic homeschooling, relaxed homeschooling, etc. I
join in the bafflement of those who have said they don't understand why
people who are patently NOT unschooling insist that they are. In my cynicism
I suspect that because unschooling seems avant garde and dangerous and edgy
the very name and idea of it attracts some.
I'm trying to eat less meat, but I'm not a vegetarian. I'm trying to be less
coercive with my children, but I'm not a TCS parent. I once kissed a girl,
but I don't go around claiming to be a lesbian to make myself seem more
interesting. I suppose I could. I could claim to be a lesbian who really
only likes to have sex with men, and fight to the end insisting that my
definition of "lesbian" is as valid as anyone else's. I wonder how most
members of a lesbian support list would react to my claims (after they
finished laughing at me)?
This list is in existence to support unschooling. As we can see from the
recent plethora of posts, such a goal isn't easy. Worthwhile things almost
never are.
Pam
[email protected]
<< This list has something like 500 members. Look at how many of those
members regularly post. Do the numbers look a little bit skewed to you?
Wonder why *the rest* of those members don't post.... >>
Do the same kinds of stats on ANY group. Most people lurk. LOTS of people
read unschooling.com who never post, too.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
members regularly post. Do the numbers look a little bit skewed to you?
Wonder why *the rest* of those members don't post.... >>
Do the same kinds of stats on ANY group. Most people lurk. LOTS of people
read unschooling.com who never post, too.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Tia Leschke
>I think this ratio would hold for just about every list I've ever been
> IMO politeness will promote more offering of opinions because people
> won't be worried about being attacked if they post something. This list
> has something like 500 members. Look at how many of those members
> regularly post. Do the numbers look a little bit skewed to you? Wonder
> why *the rest* of those members don't post....
on. Some people just naturally jump in and take part (I'm one of those)
and others prefer to lurk.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/18/2001 8:08:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamhartley@... writes:
know I keep saying this but I just start falling on the floor sometimes
reading your stuff. :)
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamhartley@... writes:
> I once kissed a girl,Oh my god Pam. . . you are too much girl. . . I love your sense of humor!! I
> but I don't go around claiming to be a lesbian to make myself seem more
> interesting. I suppose I could. I could claim to be a lesbian who really
> only likes to have sex with men, and fight to the end insisting that my
> definition of "lesbian" is as valid as anyone else's. I wonder how most
> members of a lesbian support list would react to my claims (after they
> finished laughing at me)?
>
know I keep saying this but I just start falling on the floor sometimes
reading your stuff. :)
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> In a message dated 9/18/2001 8:08:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,LOL!
> pamhartley@... writes:
>
>
> > I once kissed a girl,
> > but I don't go around claiming to be a lesbian to make myself seem
> more
> > interesting. I suppose I could. I could claim to be a lesbian who
> really
> > only likes to have sex with men, and fight to the end insisting
> that my
> > definition of "lesbian" is as valid as anyone else's. I wonder how
> most
> > members of a lesbian support list would react to my claims (after
> they
> > finished laughing at me)?
As an emancipated minor at sixteen I moved from hickville to Portland,
OR. I met a wonderful friend, we hit it off right away and spent every
minute together. It was five
days before I realized we were DATING! Wow! I won't say I was a
sheltered child but certainly never encountered this in my little world.
Was that you, Pam?
( what are you doing later? )
Deb L
Alan Tait
> > IMO politeness will promote more offering of opinions becausepeople won't
> > be worried about being attacked if they post something. Thislist has
> > something like 500 members. Look at how many of those membersregularly
> > post. Do the numbers look a little bit skewed to you? Wonder why*the rest*
> > of those members don't post....majority
>
> In my considerable experience with internet mailing lists, the vast
> of all members of all mailing lists everywhere do not post, or postthan 25%
> extremely rarely. Find me one list administrator anywhere who has a
> discussion list numbering more than, oh, say, 50 or so who has more
> (and that's probably very high) posting weekly or bi-weekly, I'd beThat'll be me then
> fascinated to talk to them.
>
> Pam
I administer an HE list with just over 100 members where 38% of
members posted at least 10 times in the last month (this has pretty
consistently been the case since it started)
We can almost achieve the 25% (23% is the actual figure) from members
who post at least once per day on average.
Why ?
The reason is clear, this is a list specifically set up to provide
support with humour and without malice. It does that well and a true
community exists and continues to develop further each day.
Sometimes you just need to get away from all the people who seem so
determined to tell you what you think, how much smarter they are and
how foolish you are.
Where is this list ?
Not telling cos you'd only come and lurk and destroy my stats :-)
DFM
Tracy Oldfield
>Could also have summat to do with the fact that it was specifically
> That'll be me then
>
> I administer an HE list with just over 100 members where 38% of
> members posted at least 10 times in the last month (this has pretty
> consistently been the case since it started)
>
> We can almost achieve the 25% (23% is the actual figure) from members
> who post at least once per day on average.
>
> Why ?
>
> The reason is clear, this is a list specifically set up to provide
> support with humour and without malice. It does that well and a true
> community exists and continues to develop further each day.
>
> Sometimes you just need to get away from all the people who seem so
> determined to tell you what you think, how much smarter they are and
> how foolish you are.
>
> Where is this list ?
>
> Not telling cos you'd only come and lurk and destroy my stats :-)
>
> DFM
>
started (as I remember) among other thigns as somewhere where
people could 'me three' without having other folk complain about
irrelevant posts...
Tracy
Alan Tait
> > The reason is clear, this is a list specifically set up to provideYou're right
> > support with humour and without malice. It does that well and a true
> > community exists and continues to develop further each day.
> >
> > Sometimes you just need to get away from all the people who seem so
> > determined to tell you what you think, how much smarter they are and
> > how foolish you are.
> >
> > Where is this list ?
> >
> > Not telling cos you'd only come and lurk and destroy my stats :-)
>
> > DFM
>
> Could also have summat to do with the fact that it was specifically
> started (as I remember) among other thigns as somewhere where
> people could 'me three' without having other folk complain about
> irrelevant posts...
> Tracy
DFM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
Dear DFM
Sounds like you are one of those "determined" people
you mentioned in your post. That isn't what you
intended, or is it?
Sharon
.--- Alan Tait <alan_d_tait@...>
wrote:
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Sounds like you are one of those "determined" people
you mentioned in your post. That isn't what you
intended, or is it?
Sharon
.--- Alan Tait <alan_d_tait@...>
wrote:
> > > The reason is clear, this is a list__________________________________________________
> specifically set up to provide
> > > support with humour and without malice. It does
> that well and a true
> > > community exists and continues to develop
> further each day.
> > >
> > > Sometimes you just need to get away from all the
> people who seem so
> > > determined to tell you what you think, how much
> smarter they are and
> > > how foolish you are.
> > >
> > > Where is this list ?
> > >
> > > Not telling cos you'd only come and lurk and
> destroy my stats :-)
> >
> > > DFM
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Sharon Rudd
An apology to those who wrote off list asking for
directions. I wrote them out, made the diagrams and
now the scanner won't turn on. Can't find where it is
unplugged or what? DH will be home sometime, perhaps
he can find the glitch? Then I'll send em on. I'm
sorry.
Sharon
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directions. I wrote them out, made the diagrams and
now the scanner won't turn on. Can't find where it is
unplugged or what? DH will be home sometime, perhaps
he can find the glitch? Then I'll send em on. I'm
sorry.
Sharon
__________________________________________________
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[email protected]
Not to discourage Sharon from getting her diagrams up and available, but I
bet there are shoe diagrams and directions online. There's surely tons of
costuming stuff there.
I love homemade shoes. I haven't made any that weren't just cloth and
temporary (or baby shoes with rubberized bottoms and tie-tops to match SCA
costumes), but I have friends who make shoes, and I have a pair I bought
years ago from a travelling hippie shoemaker from Arizona. I have five pairs
by three different makers and LOVE them.
If you want to buy a homemade custom pair, check out this:
http://www.highfiber.com/~bohemond/
(He was my husband's squire before he was a knight in the SCA, and he rents
our old house, and he just got married five days ago and is on his honeymoon,
so give him two weeks.)
Here are some sites for shoemaking and there are more, but you should find
links in here! The first is a moccasin making kit place. Tandy leather used
to do moccasin kits too, and I bet the Leather factory has some.
www.appalachianleather.com/moc_kits.htm
www.costumes.org/pages/shoelinks.htm
www.artrans.com/rmsg/textiles/shoe.htm
moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/shoe.htm
www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts/leather.htm
Sandra
bet there are shoe diagrams and directions online. There's surely tons of
costuming stuff there.
I love homemade shoes. I haven't made any that weren't just cloth and
temporary (or baby shoes with rubberized bottoms and tie-tops to match SCA
costumes), but I have friends who make shoes, and I have a pair I bought
years ago from a travelling hippie shoemaker from Arizona. I have five pairs
by three different makers and LOVE them.
If you want to buy a homemade custom pair, check out this:
http://www.highfiber.com/~bohemond/
(He was my husband's squire before he was a knight in the SCA, and he rents
our old house, and he just got married five days ago and is on his honeymoon,
so give him two weeks.)
Here are some sites for shoemaking and there are more, but you should find
links in here! The first is a moccasin making kit place. Tandy leather used
to do moccasin kits too, and I bet the Leather factory has some.
www.appalachianleather.com/moc_kits.htm
www.costumes.org/pages/shoelinks.htm
www.artrans.com/rmsg/textiles/shoe.htm
moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/shoe.htm
www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts/leather.htm
Sandra
[email protected]
No problem, we'll just have to walk through snow with no shoes on, sniff.
Just kidding, I'm in no hurry whatsoever, just thought they'd be neat to try.
:-)
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just kidding, I'm in no hurry whatsoever, just thought they'd be neat to try.
:-)
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
Thanks Sandra..now the heat is off! Still haven't
found where the loose connection is.DS rearranged some
stuff. But will send on what I have, off list, when it
(?) gets plugged back in. Also they could check out
the rendevouz sites. Is the former squire the same
fellow that makes the corn pillows?
Sharon
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
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found where the loose connection is.DS rearranged some
stuff. But will send on what I have, off list, when it
(?) gets plugged back in. Also they could check out
the rendevouz sites. Is the former squire the same
fellow that makes the corn pillows?
Sharon
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
> Not to discourage Sharon from getting her diagrams__________________________________________________
> up and available, but I
> bet there are shoe diagrams and directions online.
> There's surely tons of
> costuming stuff there.
>
> I love homemade shoes. I haven't made any that
> weren't just cloth and
> temporary (or baby shoes with rubberized bottoms and
> tie-tops to match SCA
> costumes), but I have friends who make shoes, and I
> have a pair I bought
> years ago from a travelling hippie shoemaker from
> Arizona. I have five pairs
> by three different makers and LOVE them.
>
> If you want to buy a homemade custom pair, check out
> this:
> http://www.highfiber.com/~bohemond/
> (He was my husband's squire before he was a knight
> in the SCA, and he rents
> our old house, and he just got married five days ago
> and is on his honeymoon,
> so give him two weeks.)
>
> Here are some sites for shoemaking and there are
> more, but you should find
> links in here! The first is a moccasin making kit
> place. Tandy leather used
> to do moccasin kits too, and I bet the Leather
> factory has some.
>
> www.appalachianleather.com/moc_kits.htm
>
> www.costumes.org/pages/shoelinks.htm
>
> www.artrans.com/rmsg/textiles/shoe.htm
> moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/shoe.htm
> www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts/leather.htm
>
>
> Sandra
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/01 4:10:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
bearspawprint@... writes:
No, Bohemond makes boots.
Bela made corn pillows. <g>
Both are knights now. I still have a pair of boots and four corn-bags. <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bearspawprint@... writes:
> Is the former squire the sameYou remembered!
> fellow that makes the corn pillows?
>
No, Bohemond makes boots.
Bela made corn pillows. <g>
Both are knights now. I still have a pair of boots and four corn-bags. <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tracy Oldfield
> You're rightNow, now, dear, don't start spreading it here ;-)
>
> DFM
>
>
LOL
Tracy
Bridget E Coffman
No Sharon,
I think her point was that there is a better way to behave toward one an
other. Or that it is possible to disagree without calling the other
person dysfunctional. I too am on lists where this is quite evident. I
stick around here in the hopes things will settle down and maybe, just
maybe, people will start accepting what I and others say at face value or
at least not tearing every little sentence apart like they have been.
Bridget
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
I think her point was that there is a better way to behave toward one an
other. Or that it is possible to disagree without calling the other
person dysfunctional. I too am on lists where this is quite evident. I
stick around here in the hopes things will settle down and maybe, just
maybe, people will start accepting what I and others say at face value or
at least not tearing every little sentence apart like they have been.
Bridget
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:37:37 -0700 (PDT)OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00
> From: Sharon Rudd <bearspawprint@...>
> Subject: My list is better that yours wasThe Deeper Wound
>
> Dear DFM
> Sounds like you are one of those "determined" people
> you mentioned in your post. That isn't what you
> intended, or is it?
> Sharon
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
Alan Tait
> Dear DFMNot really, I was only trying to say that it is possible to have a list
> Sounds like you are one of those "determined" people
> you mentioned in your post.
where a high percentage post actively.
The list I run does have that, thanks to the members, not to me.
The one thing with is intrinsically different between that list and the
others I am on is the lack of conflict.
> That isn't what youWhy would it be ?
> intended, or is it?
> SharonAlan
Alan Tait
I agree with you totally Bridget.
You expressed it better than I too
DFM
(Who is not a 'she' btw but seeing as you understood what I meant I'll
forgive this once :-) )
-----Original Message-----
From: Bridget E Coffman [mailto:rumpleteasermom@...]
Sent: 27 September 2001 13:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] My list is better that yours wasThe
Deeper Wound
No Sharon,
I think her point was that there is a better way to behave toward one an
other. Or that it is possible to disagree without calling the other
person dysfunctional. I too am on lists where this is quite evident. I
stick around here in the hopes things will settle down and maybe, just
maybe, people will start accepting what I and others say at face value or
at least not tearing every little sentence apart like they have been.
Bridget
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You expressed it better than I too
DFM
(Who is not a 'she' btw but seeing as you understood what I meant I'll
forgive this once :-) )
-----Original Message-----
From: Bridget E Coffman [mailto:rumpleteasermom@...]
Sent: 27 September 2001 13:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] My list is better that yours wasThe
Deeper Wound
No Sharon,
I think her point was that there is a better way to behave toward one an
other. Or that it is possible to disagree without calling the other
person dysfunctional. I too am on lists where this is quite evident. I
stick around here in the hopes things will settle down and maybe, just
maybe, people will start accepting what I and others say at face value or
at least not tearing every little sentence apart like they have been.
Bridget
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:37:37 -0700 (PDT)OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00
> From: Sharon Rudd <bearspawprint@...>
> Subject: My list is better that yours wasThe Deeper Wound
>
> Dear DFM
> Sounds like you are one of those "determined" people
> you mentioned in your post. That isn't what you
> intended, or is it?
> Sharon
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Start here...
Height:
345678 ft 01234567891011in
Weight:
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Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
> Why would it be ?Dunno. That's why I asked. Wondered why you pointed
> Alan
out the qualities of this other list. My Grandmother
used to do that too, only it was my cousins rather
than another list. I didn't mind too much, but my
cousins did.
Still, I am glad that you meant your comparisons as a
peace making gesture.
Sharon
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Tracy Oldfield
On 27 Sep 2001, at 15:08, Sharon Rudd wrote:
and that they'd like to talk to the moderator of such a list.
Tracy
>It was also in answer to someone asking if there was such a list...
> > Why would it be ?
> > Alan
>
> Dunno. That's why I asked. Wondered why you pointed
> out the qualities of this other list. My Grandmother
> used to do that too, only it was my cousins rather
> than another list. I didn't mind too much, but my
> cousins did.
>
> Still, I am glad that you meant your comparisons as a
> peace making gesture.
> Sharon
>
and that they'd like to talk to the moderator of such a list.
Tracy
Alan Tait
>> Why would it be ?Sorry Sharon but I have no idea where you are going with this.
>> Alan
>
>Dunno. That's why I asked. Wondered why you pointed
>out the qualities of this other list. My Grandmother
>used to do that too, only it was my cousins rather
>than another list. I didn't mind too much, but my
>cousins did.
>Still, I am glad that you meant your comparisons as aI was simply offering to talk to the person who wanted to talk to someone
>peace making gesture.
>Sharon
who ran a list where a lot of members were active posters.
I decided to share my thoughts on why. You seem to have had a problem with
this which I neither expected nor understand.
I made a (facetious) comment about not telling this list where the other
list was. It was meant as a joke (which is consistent with the list I was
talking about :-)).
If anyone had actually asked I would have happily told them.
DFM
Alan Tait
Thanks Tracy, I was beginning to think I'd been unclear about this.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy Oldfield [mailto:tracy.oldfield@...]
Sent: 27 September 2001 23:27
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] My list is better that yours wasThe
Deeper Wound
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy Oldfield [mailto:tracy.oldfield@...]
Sent: 27 September 2001 23:27
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] My list is better that yours wasThe
Deeper Wound
On 27 Sep 2001, at 15:08, Sharon Rudd wrote:
>
> > Why would it be ?
> > Alan
>
> Dunno. That's why I asked. Wondered why you pointed
> out the qualities of this other list. My Grandmother
> used to do that too, only it was my cousins rather
> than another list. I didn't mind too much, but my
> cousins did.
>
> Still, I am glad that you meant your comparisons as a
> peace making gesture.
> Sharon
>
It was also in answer to someone asking if there was such a list...
and that they'd like to talk to the moderator of such a list.
Tracy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
Hi Alan....do you really want clarification? If not,
I'm ok with letting it go. If you really don't
understand the analaogy and want to, I'll ATTEMPT to
explain. Probably take an essay, and probably be
poorly executed. But it doesn't matter. Not a real
problem.
Sharon
--- Alan Tait <alan_d_tait@...>
wrote:
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I'm ok with letting it go. If you really don't
understand the analaogy and want to, I'll ATTEMPT to
explain. Probably take an essay, and probably be
poorly executed. But it doesn't matter. Not a real
problem.
Sharon
--- Alan Tait <alan_d_tait@...>
wrote:
> Sorry Sharon but I have no idea where you are going__________________________________________________
> with this.
> DFM
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