Jeff & Diane Gwirtz

> Arithmetic is the manipulation of numbers. It's a basic part of much math,
> but nowhere near the entire thing. It's just the part that schools seem to
> focus on, at least until you get to graduate level.
>
Linda - What a great post on math. I think the above is what I'm
referring to when I say that dh and ds really "get" math and dd and I
don't. Both my daughter and I are great at computation - at plugging
numbers into formulas and that is what ps rewarded. Dh struggles
with his students all the time who say - if you can just give me the
formula, I can do it. Problem is - they can't figure out what
formula they need or why they need it. Ds sees the bigger picture.
He looks at it first, and then figures out what it all means. I
think a lot of unschoolers are like this because they haven't been
taught to rely on the formula or the memorized rules.

Diane from KS
jagwirtz@...

Michele Moss

>
> > OK, let me try again. Does unschooling teach a child to recognize
> > the mathematic symbols used in textbooks?
>
> Unschooling doesn't "teach" a child anything. They learn, which is
> different.
>
> But do unschoolers learn the mathematic symbols used in textbooks?
> Sure, if they have a reason to do so. If they want to be able to
> communicate math concepts, then yes, they'll need to learn standard
> notation, just like if they want to write to someone and have it
> understandable, they need to learn how to write in the language they
> speak. Same thing.
>
To comment on mathematical symbols to both of you, Sterling at only
3yo has demonstrated that he knows the math symbols on several
occasions. where he learned them from, i don't know. he's always
had a fascination with calculators and perhaps while playing with
them he's asked me "what's this" and i just answered him without
thinking about it. We've also played some math games on the
internet and maybe he's picked it up from reading outloud. a couple
months ago, we got the book "One guinea pig is not enough" from the
library. it's a really cute story that incorporates simple math
equations into the story. he read 1 + 1 as 1 plus 1. another cute
story "bunches and bunches of bunnies" is similiar but multipication.
he read 10 X 10 as 10 times 10. so yes, they do learn to recognize
the math symbols without a math textbook.

> > From the unschoolers I've known math
> > is mostly mental math - which is great - yet I don't see where
> > they experience the math sentence and different layouts of
> > mathematic problems on paper. I would think this could
> > potentially cause a problem at some point would it not?
>
> I think this is an interesting thing to think about.
>
I love the movie "Little Man Tate". and my question is, if a child
can do mental math, then why would we want to force them to put it
down on paper? I always envied people who could calculate simple
math in their heads faster than i could reach for the calculator or
paper and pencil. and when doing complex math mentally? whew!
these people deserve a medal in my opinion, not criticism of their
inadequacy cuz they can't put it on paper or rather "don't need" paper!

> All along. Time is a big math concept motivator, as is money. Body
> parts- two of some ten of some, why? Why are bodies mostly (but not
> totally) symmetrical? Why do some things fit together, others
> don't? Why do some stacks of things balance, others don't? Why is
> it that if you want to build a lego thing that is twice as tall and
> twice as wide and twice as long as the one you have, it takes 8
> times as many blocks? Why is it that two glasses can be different
> heights, but hold the same amount? Why isn't a taller one always
> "bigger"?
>
i love your examples! My son has been a big lego fan since his
first 6 piece set at age 7 months. he also loves his hotwheels where he
loves to experiment with velocity and what variables will change the
velocity of them - adding a steeper slope in the track, curves, etc.
and even if the slope is the same, why do some cars go faster than
others? what makes his bus which certainly is not very aerodynamic,
go faster than 90% of his cars and trucks? h-m-m-m.... i haven't
even figured that one out yet either but i'm sure he will figure it
out before me one of these days.



Michele Moss
Mom of Sterling Tyler age 3 yrs old
Parents of Spirited Kids Resource Web site:
http://www.icstech.net/~michele
Parents of Spirited Kids Discussion Group:
http://www.egroups.com/list/psk

[email protected]

In a message dated 99-09-05 20:52:08 EDT, you write:

<< > But do unschoolers learn the mathematic symbols used in textbooks?
> Sure, if they have a reason to do so. If they want to be able to
> communicate math concepts, then yes, they'll need to learn standard
> notation, just like if they want to write to someone and have it
> understandable, they need to learn how to write in the language they
> speak. Same thing. >>

Kristin, at 5 yo: "Mommy, what does that X mean, and that little line with
the dots on top and underneath?"

So, we did a little thing with pattern blocks and stuffed animals: "If each
of these 3 stuffed animals get 4 pattern blocks, then that's 12 blocks
altogether" - and, of course, in reverse for division.

She's a curious one, though. After we watched Camelot, (2 years later), we
spent days discussing why King Arthur had to let Guinevere die. She still
thought it was dumb <g>.

Laura

The O'Donnells

> I love the movie "Little Man Tate". and my question is, if a child
>can do mental math, then why would we want to force them to put it
>down on paper? I always envied people who could calculate simple
>math in their heads faster than i could reach for the calculator or
>paper and pencil. and when doing complex math mentally? whew!
>these people deserve a medal in my opinion, not criticism of their
>inadequacy cuz they can't put it on paper or rather "don't need" paper!

Hi all,

I've been gone a couple days (dh is only home on weekends, sigh) But,
wanted to point out that I am not trying to criticize anyone because they
can't put math sentences on paper. My thinking is that we need to know how
to communicate math problems on paper just as we do the English language.
If we work with others that need to know how we arrived at our math answers
and cannot communicate it in writing we could be somewhat hindered could we
not?


In His Service,

Laraine
praxis@...