Julie Stauffer

<<I love it that she reads so much>>

Why?

Why is reading somehow inherently better than television? Or game boy? Or
baseball? Or shopping? Every activity has some value and television is
active (My 8yo is currently in a shoot out with the A-Team LOL) by engaging
us mentally, helping us to make connections.

Are you sure you mean to be on the unschooler list? So much "school work"
to do doesn't seem to jive with the philosophy. My kids also have chores.
We are part of a family and everybody contributes.

Julie

[email protected]

<< <<I love it that she reads so much>> >>

I would love it if one of my kids started reading more because there are
books I'd like to share discussions about.

Someday factors will probably change in the lives of my boys and they'll be
reading more. My husband didn't start reading a lot of literature (novels,
fantasy, whatever) until he was away from his parents' house. He can read
for hours without looking up or stopping for food.

But I love that my kids are learning, and I see them learning from hanging
out with their friends, from just thinking while they stack wood or put away
groceries, from making musical parody jokes with their sister in the car, etc.

Unschooling participants and readers on this list don't bother me. Answers
which go against unschooling bother me. It's not the people, it's the
information (if that can make sense). If "relaxed homeschoolers" read this
it might help them make the move to unschooling. But if schoolish answers
are left without comment, the value of the list to new unschoolers isn't as
high.

Note to anyone whose feelings are raw--I don't think anyone here is trying to
be critical of people or families, just of reasoning and justifications for
certain kinds of recommendations. We're/I'm trying to see what's behind
statements, and what's ahead if the statements are taken to their logical,
ultimate, behavioral ends.

If someone came and told me that my fireplace was a fire hazard if I didn't
get a chimney cleaner more often since I'm burning scrap wood and it's
gunkier, I would listen carefully and think about where I put that address.
I wouldn't be sitting there thinking "What she's really saying is that I'm
cheap and stupid and dumb and wrong."

What she's really saying is probably that while I've been happily running
around with my kids gathering scrap firewood I forgot to note how long it's
been since I called a chimneysweep, and that I really truly do NOT want to
burn my house down just because I'm a space case about schedules.

[And yes I DO need to call a chimney cleaner guy...]

Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

Bridget E Coffman

On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:54:42 -0500 "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
writes:
> <<I love it that she reads so much>>
>
> Why?
>
> Why is reading somehow inherently better than television? Or game
> boy? Or
> baseball? Or shopping?

There are thousands of reasons why Jenni's reading is better than
Wyndham's TV watching. Some of them have to do with health. Jenni will
read while walking. Some of them are developmental issues that would
take a long time to explain here but I'll hunt down the data if you are
interested. Some of the reasons have to do with content. Jenni is
getting way more from her books than Wyndham is from his TV. If he were
watching a better quality of TV it might not be as bad but even then the
other factors are still there. And then there is the fact that Wyndham
has some behavioral issues that are made worse by inactivity. That alone
would be enough to make me limit his viewing.
I will discourage Game Boy usage if the quantity is too high also. But
that again is a health issue. They need to get some physical activity.

Bridget

~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Lynda

Ya know, maybe it is in the air or something but this is the third or maybe
forth post in as many days telling folks that they are on the wrong list or
that what they are doing isn't really unschooling, etc.

I think the list needs to also remember that not everyone came instantly to
unschooling. Unschooling isn't instant coffee or tea that you drop in a
container and you get instant results from. It might be better to not snipe
at folks or tell them to go elsewhere because they aren't "real"
unschoolers. IMHO that is one sure fired way to send them running in the
opposite direction!I mean, like anything else, it can sometimes it takes
years for folks to get to the end of the journey. Little steps, etc. After
all one facet of unschooling is all about allowing the kidlets to be
individuals and to follow their own path, should this not also apply to the
adults and their journey to unschooling? If it were your kids would you
tell them they got it wrong and they should hang it up and go elsewhere?

Lynda

----- Original Message -----
From: Julie Stauffer <jnjstau@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1418


> <<I love it that she reads so much>>
>
> Why?
>
> Why is reading somehow inherently better than television? Or game boy?
Or
> baseball? Or shopping? Every activity has some value and television is
> active (My 8yo is currently in a shoot out with the A-Team LOL) by
engaging
> us mentally, helping us to make connections.
>
> Are you sure you mean to be on the unschooler list? So much "school work"
> to do doesn't seem to jive with the philosophy. My kids also have chores.
> We are part of a family and everybody contributes.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Bridget E Coffman

On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 18:56:24 -0700 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> After all one facet of unschooling is all about allowing the kidlets to
be
> individuals and to follow their own path, should this not also apply
to the
> adults and their journey to unschooling? If it were your kids would
you
> tell them they got it wrong and they should hang it up and go
elsewhere?
>
> Lynda
>

Thanks you Lynda.

I also suspect that there are those here who harbor a very narrow view of
unschooling. The impression I get is that they think I should sit back
and watch my kids do absolutely nothing because that's okay, they'll
learn anyway. Well, it isn't. I've been homeschooling for 6 years now.
This is our seventh year. There is no structure to our study but if I
don't set some rules and limits, Rachel will hole up in her room and let
her depression take her over despite the prozac and Wyndham is just
Wyndham and you have to meet him to understand.
If you have such a narrow view of unschooling that you cannot allow any
parental control at all, that makes you no better in my book than Mr.
Farris who takes the opposite view to the extreme.

Bridget


~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

[email protected]

<< Unschooling isn't instant coffee or tea that you drop in a
container and you get instant results from. It might be better to not snipe
at folks or tell them to go elsewhere because they aren't "real"
unschoolers. IMHO that is one sure fired way to send them running in the
opposite direction! >>

I agree, but there's the consideration that on a list this big if someone who
knows nothing about unschooling comes and reads lots of posts by people who
aren't really unschooling, they won't know the difference even after weeks of
reading.

It's hard to find a balance, and each person's making this up on the fly too.


Those who make a strong, hard, critical recommendation which is seen as
potentially harmful to people on this list (whether it's letting kids stay up
all night with dirty hair or whether it's making them learn anatomy because
they said they liked the veterinarian's office, or wanting help on how to get
them through Saxon Math with some comfort), someone is likely to ask them to
consider WHY they're doing what they're doing. (That someone might be me,
but it certainly isn't always me.)

If there is a list out there which is marked "unschooling" and on which
people are supported equally whether they're unschooling or not, we should
give people that address if they want to call themselves unschoolers but not
really understand what it is. There seem to be a lot of those people, and
really, if there's a "relaxed unschoolers" list which embraces unit studies
and "all but math and writing," we should let people have the sign-up info!

Sandra

Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/8/01 7:51:07 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:

<< The impression I get is that they think I should sit back
and watch my kids do absolutely nothing because that's okay, they'll
learn anyway. >>

You haven't gotten that impression from READING things on unschooling.com or
this list.

You're attacking a straw man with that, and you DID say you would read a
while before posting, and you started posting before you knew the tone of the
list.

<<There is no structure to our study but if I
don't set some rules and limits, Rachel will hole up in her room and let
her depression take her over despite the prozac and Wyndham is just
Wyndham and you have to meet him to understand. >>

If you haven't tried unschooling without structure (and structured
unschooling isn't), you don't really know what would happen if you did. You
have judged without trying (as you did this list).

<<If you have such a narrow view of unschooling that you cannot allow any
parental control at all, that makes you no better in my book than Mr.
Farris who takes the opposite view to the extreme.>>

You have a very judgmental book then!

How about read www.unschooling.com first and THEN tell us we're stupid?

Sandra

Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

Lynda

Bridget, don't go there with the Farris thing <g>

Lynda, who thinks Farris and Ezzo's parents should be the recipients of
retro-active bc!
----- Original Message -----
From: Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1418


>
>
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 18:56:24 -0700 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> > After all one facet of unschooling is all about allowing the kidlets to
> be
> > individuals and to follow their own path, should this not also apply
> to the
> > adults and their journey to unschooling? If it were your kids would
> you
> > tell them they got it wrong and they should hang it up and go
> elsewhere?
> >
> > Lynda
> >
>
> Thanks you Lynda.
>
> I also suspect that there are those here who harbor a very narrow view of
> unschooling. The impression I get is that they think I should sit back
> and watch my kids do absolutely nothing because that's okay, they'll
> learn anyway. Well, it isn't. I've been homeschooling for 6 years now.
> This is our seventh year. There is no structure to our study but if I
> don't set some rules and limits, Rachel will hole up in her room and let
> her depression take her over despite the prozac and Wyndham is just
> Wyndham and you have to meet him to understand.
> If you have such a narrow view of unschooling that you cannot allow any
> parental control at all, that makes you no better in my book than Mr.
> Farris who takes the opposite view to the extreme.
>
> Bridget
>
>
> ~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
> comes from morons?~~~~
> I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
> Some letter of that After-life to spell;
> And by and by my Soul returned to me,
> And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Helen Hegener

At 9:52 AM -0400 9/8/01, Bridget E Coffman wrote:
>I also suspect that there are those here who harbor a very narrow view of
>unschooling. The impression I get is that they think I should sit back
>and watch my kids do absolutely nothing because that's okay, they'll
>learn anyway. Well, it isn't.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record I don't think anyone
recommends anyone else sit back and watch their kids do absolutely
nothing. And what kid *would* do absolutely nothing, anyway? None
that I know. Kids are always busy doing stuff, even when they look
like they're not. Heck, I do some of my best work out by the garden,
laying in my swing chair, looking like I'm asleep. But I'm really
running over articles, columns, layout, trips to here and there, and
what color curtains I want in the bedroom! I'm learning which birds
like what plants, which direction the wind comes from at certain
times of the day, and how long I can lay there without being
disturbed, which is never as long as I'd like it to be... <g>

>If you have such a narrow view of unschooling that you cannot allow any
>parental control at all, that makes you no better in my book than Mr.
>Farris who takes the opposite view to the extreme.

Ah, parental control. One of my favorite topics. We control plenty of
what our kids do, isn't that our job as parents? We just don't
control what goes into their little heads, or when, in the same way
that schools do. But as much as I am able, I try to exert some
control over their lives, at least until it's clear to me that
they're ready and able to take over the controls themselves. Four of
our five have reached that point, but we've still got one who's our
responsibility day in and day out.

Helen

Helen Hegener

At 9:53 AM -0400 9/8/01, SandraDodd@... wrote:
>It's hard to find a balance, and each person's making this up on the fly too.

*** Absolutely! ***

<BWG>
Helen

Lynda

I don't think you give folks enough credit. I really think most folks are
just a bit brighter than that! Anyone who reads a post by someone who still
thinks in the ps or school at home mode will certainly immediately following
find a post where the offending posters are, in lots of instances,
immediately bashed for that thinking. In other instances they are
"corrected" but the impression is never left that the majority of
unschoolers do things that way or that it is "the" unschooling way.

I don't think the posts about schooling type things are going to give the
wrong impression or scare people off, IMHO the posts that follow those are
more likely to scare them off.

Rigid statements such as "this isn't the list for you" as a first response
could be more effectively handled and perhaps bring about a change, by have
you considered or a question of why they feel they must do things in such a
manner. Or stories of "once upon a time I also thought . . ." and continued
on to how a
change was made and the great results that were the result thereof. And, of
course, recommending unschooling.com but in such a way that it is a
positive, not a get out of here you don't belong kind of statement.

For moi, I'd rather spent a little time and maybe convert them than to send
them away thinking this list is all about radical unschoolers, and believe
you me it isn't about radical unschoolers, not by a far stretch, and that
unschoolers are all rude and that isn't something they'd want to have
anything to do with.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1418


>
> << Unschooling isn't instant coffee or tea that you drop in a
> container and you get instant results from. It might be better to not
snipe
> at folks or tell them to go elsewhere because they aren't "real"
> unschoolers. IMHO that is one sure fired way to send them running in the

> opposite direction! >>
>
> I agree, but there's the consideration that on a list this big if someone
who
> knows nothing about unschooling comes and reads lots of posts by people
who
> aren't really unschooling, they won't know the difference even after weeks
of
> reading.
>
> It's hard to find a balance, and each person's making this up on the fly
too.
>
>
> Those who make a strong, hard, critical recommendation which is seen as
> potentially harmful to people on this list (whether it's letting kids stay
up
> all night with dirty hair or whether it's making them learn anatomy
because
> they said they liked the veterinarian's office, or wanting help on how to
get
> them through Saxon Math with some comfort), someone is likely to ask them
to
> consider WHY they're doing what they're doing. (That someone might be me,
> but it certainly isn't always me.)
>
> If there is a list out there which is marked "unschooling" and on which
> people are supported equally whether they're unschooling or not, we should
> give people that address if they want to call themselves unschoolers but
not
> really understand what it is. There seem to be a lot of those people, and
> really, if there's a "relaxed unschoolers" list which embraces unit
studies
> and "all but math and writing," we should let people have the sign-up
info!
>
> Sandra
>
> Sandra
>
> "Everything counts."
> http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
> http://expage.com/SandraDodd
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Johanna SanInocencio

Ezzo?
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1418


> Bridget, don't go there with the Farris thing <g>
>
> Lynda, who thinks Farris and Ezzo's parents should be the recipients of
> retro-active bc!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 6:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1418
>
>
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 18:56:24 -0700 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> > > After all one facet of unschooling is all about allowing the kidlets
to
> > be
> > > individuals and to follow their own path, should this not also apply
> > to the
> > > adults and their journey to unschooling? If it were your kids would
> > you
> > > tell them they got it wrong and they should hang it up and go
> > elsewhere?
> > >
> > > Lynda
> > >
> >
> > Thanks you Lynda.
> >
> > I also suspect that there are those here who harbor a very narrow view
of
> > unschooling. The impression I get is that they think I should sit back
> > and watch my kids do absolutely nothing because that's okay, they'll
> > learn anyway. Well, it isn't. I've been homeschooling for 6 years now.
> > This is our seventh year. There is no structure to our study but if I
> > don't set some rules and limits, Rachel will hole up in her room and let
> > her depression take her over despite the prozac and Wyndham is just
> > Wyndham and you have to meet him to understand.
> > If you have such a narrow view of unschooling that you cannot allow any
> > parental control at all, that makes you no better in my book than Mr.
> > Farris who takes the opposite view to the extreme.
> >
> > Bridget
> >
> >
> > ~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
> > comes from morons?~~~~
> > I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
> > Some letter of that After-life to spell;
> > And by and by my Soul returned to me,
> > And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

<< Ezzo? >>

There's much MUCH more out there, but this might should be enough to satisfy
the curiosity and to avoid further time on this list.

"These professionals expressed disagreement with many of the childrearing
methods advocated by the Ezzos, and worry about the complete lack of credible
scientific foundation for the program.
Why has BABYWISE raised so many red flags for informed observers? Perhaps the
most hotly debated aspect of the program has to do with the Ezzos' views on
routines for young children. BABYWISE admonishes parents to establish a
regular schedule for infants immediately after birth; they propose that an
unscheduled baby will lead to an undisciplined and difficult child with
"metabolic chaos" (a term not found in any medical literature). In the
religious version of the manual, the Ezzos strongly suggest that it is God's
will that infants eat, sleep, and play on an externally imposed schedule.
They write that God is a "God of order." In fact, the subtitle of their
parenting curriculum is "Growing Kids God's Way." The book insists that
scheduling an infant will actually help his nervous system to "mature" more
quickly. In BABYWISE, the Ezzos advocate something they refer to as
"parent-directed feeding," in which infants, whether breast- or bottle-fed,
should be offered nourishment only every three hours or so as timed by the
parents. In earlier versions of the manual, parents were urged to wait at
least four hours between feedings. After vociferous outcry from the medical
community, the guidelines were modified. Still, according to BABYWISE,
"demand feeding," the method currently advocated for infants by all major
medical organizations, is a faddish and child-centered practice that can only
lead to unhappy babies and mothers. Both GFI infant-care manuals advise that
demand-fed infants often grow into children who steal, who will be unable to
handle real life, and who will "have difficulty with siblings and peers." Dr.
Robert Bucknam, the Denver-area pediatrician who co-authored BABYWISE with
the Ezzos, describes this alleged phenomenon: "As they get older," said
Bucknam, "every whine is an opportunity to feed. They become more demanding.
They become brats." Most child-health experts couldn't disagree more strongly
....

"In an interview with the Bradenton Herald (of Florida), Kearney discussed
the experiences she had working with a number of parents who were using the
Ezzo feeding program. In each case, babies were gaining weight slowly and
exhibiting signs of depression. Despite Kearney's professional advice to feed
the babies more often, these parents refused in accordance with the BABYWISE
schedule."

http://www.bestfed.com/katie/ezzos.htm

Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

Bridget E Coffman

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 10:29:12 -0700 Helen Hegener
<HEM-Editor@...> writes:
>
> Ah, parental control. One of my favorite topics. We control plenty of
> what our kids do, isn't that our job as parents? We just don't
> control what goes into their little heads, or when, in the same way
> that schools do. But as much as I am able, I try to exert some
> control over their lives, at least until it's clear to me that
> they're ready and able to take over the controls themselves. Four of
> our five have reached that point, but we've still got one who's our
> responsibility day in and day out.
>
> Helen
>

Yes, but from the minute I started posting here, I was told that because
I exert some control, I am not unschooling. So which is it? I said from
the start that the kids control what when and how, I only dictate that
something get done, not what it is to be. And those guidelines were set
up together, with their input.

Bridget


~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

[email protected]

There are a lot of Christians who have come out strongly against the Ezzos.
Just the name of the program gives me the creeps.
Teri


Co-author of Christian Unschooling; Raising Your Child in the Freedom of
Christ. Now available at Amazon.com! <A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1891400223/o/qid=993307267/sr=2-1

/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/002-0292323-9457613">Amazon.com: buying info: Christian
Unschooling : Growing Your Children in the F</A>

Check out our website at <A HREF="http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/">
Homeschooling - Christian Unschooling - Natural Learning</A>

Bridget E Coffman

You don't want to know.

He is a child rearing something or other, I don't really knwo his
qualifications. He pitches things like putting an infant on a blanket
and smacking it everytime it crawls off to teach it boundaries. It gets
worse from there.

Bridget

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 15:33:54 -0500 "Johanna SanInocencio"
<saninocencio@...> writes:
> Ezzo?
> Johanna
~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Bridget E Coffman

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 10:40:54 -0700 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> Rigid statements such as "this isn't the list for you" as a first
response
> could be more effectively handled and perhaps bring about a change, by
have
> you considered or a question of why they feel they must do things in
such a
> manner. Or stories of "once upon a time I also thought . . ." and
continued
> on to how a change was made and the great results that were the result
thereof.
> And, of course, recommending unschooling.com but in such a way that it
is a
> positive, not a get out of here you don't belong kind of statement.
> For moi, I'd rather spent a little time and maybe convert them than to
send
> them away thinking this list is all about radical unschoolers, and
believe
> you me it isn't about radical unschoolers, not by a far stretch, and>
that
> unschoolers are all rude and that isn't something they'd want to have
> anything to do with.
>
> Lynda


I have to say that if I weren't such an old-timer at the unschool thing,
or such a strong person, or so opinionated, I probably would have cut and
run by now. And for those who need some advice and you scare them away
by jumping all over the first innocuaous thing they said, that would be a
bad thing indeed.

Bridget

~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Bridget E Coffman

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 11:37:47 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> You're attacking a straw man with that, and you DID say you would
> read a
> while before posting, and you started posting before you knew the
> tone of the
> list.
>

My only posts to this point were either innocuous comments on video games
and TV or defense or explanation when those same comments got me told I
was dishonest, not uschooling and didn't belong here.
BTW - The two days are up.


> If you haven't tried unschooling without structure (and structured
> unschooling isn't), you don't really know what would happen if you
> did. You have judged without trying (as you did this list).
>

OK - ONE LAST TIME AND VERY SLOWLY

This is my seventh year of unschooling and this
is the first year my kids have asked for some
guidelines.


>
> How about read www.unschooling.com first and THEN tell us we're
> stupid?
>
> Sandra

I have not told you are stupid. I have not disagreed with your methods
of unschooling your children. I have merely commented on things that
happen in my family. And, when I went and read the stuff at
unschooling.com and forwarded what I found, I was STILL told that what I
am doing is not unschooling even though it matches exactly what I found
there.

Bridget


~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/8/01 8:40:22 PM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:

<< OK - ONE LAST TIME AND VERY SLOWLY

This is my seventh year of unschooling and this
is the first year my kids have asked for some
guidelines.
>>

First time you said "unschooling" on the hoe many years. Before you said
"homeschooling" (and I thought it was five years, but the posts have been
flying fast).

If you "accidently" unplug something and admit it, your credibility is harmed
in other ways as well.

<<You obviously have not met Wyndham. He is addicted to TV the way people
are addicted to gambling. It isn't that he has nothing else to do, it
isn't that he even likes what he watches. >>

And the suggestions of getting out and doing things much more interesting
than TV are as good with or without genetic predispositions.

<<And, when I went and read the stuff at
unschooling.com and forwarded what I found>>

Reading more there and posting less here might change your perspective and
mood. You really don't seem happy with this list at all.

<<Now, I have a challenge for you: Show me ONE place where I have insulted
anyone here.>>

My reading back through the list won't add to the body of useful suggestions
for unschoolers. Neither will the continuation of this conversation, I'm
afraid.

Sandra




Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

Sharon Rudd

Actually, Bridgett, you don't seem too happy, at all.

It seems you have had some very hard times and that
perhaps it is not all over with yet. Maybe if you ease
up a bit things will flow a little more smoothly.

If the TV really bothers you becuaswDS watching it
more than you like, you can unplug it, donate it to
charity, find other things you need to afford more....

Have you thought about turning on some music...let him
choose the music sometimes...MAKE the music...dance.

Perhaps you could as DS to accompany you somewhere in
such a way that he knows you really would like for him
to BE with you..around the block, to the grocery
store, library, zoo, dentist, friend's house, up a
tree, on the roof, swimming, camping (most folks don't
take TVs there, though some do). If you are still ill
a lot, take him with you to the doc or therapy or
whatever. Just ease him away WITH you.

What does he like second best to TV? I bet the listers
here would have some suggestions on how to make a
particular interest assessible and attractive. What do
YOU like? Do it in the same room close to him or the
TV until he gets curious, let him get involved
someway, too.

Sharon




--- SandraDodd@... wrote:

> Reading more there and posting less here might
> change your perspective and
> mood. You really don't seem happy with this list at
> all.
>
> Sandra
>


__________________________________________________
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Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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Bridget E Coffman

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 23:16:21 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
>
> If you "accidently" unplug something and admit it, your credibility
> is harmed in other ways as well.
>

You DO need to go back and look at what I said. Here it is so you don't
have to look it up:

"I don't know where this conversation started but here's my trick - I
reach behind the TV and loosen the co-ax connector just enough to make
the picture garbage. I'm the only one who can fix it and that's my
solution when my 9yo son gets into TV too much. I agree that asking them
to do something is not too much!"

Then when questioned about the dishonesty of it I said:

"It isn't that they don't know what I did to the TV . It is that they
can't fix it themselves (at least my youngest can't). And I only use it
as a last resort when the TV starts staying on continuously for days at a
time. My son occassionally 'forgets' that there is life away from the
TV. That's why I do it and he knows why."

So how exactly is my credibility harmed? They know what I do and why I
do it.

Bridget


~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Bridget E Coffman

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 23:16:21 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> First time you said "unschooling" on the hoe many years. Before you
said
> "homeschooling" (and I thought it was five years, but the posts have
been
> flying fast).
>

Nope, I went through my sent box. I said it three other times, once with
the actual number of years included and once with the words old-timer.

>
> And the suggestions of getting out and doing things much more
> interesting than TV are as good with or without genetic
predispositions.
>

Not an addictive personality yourself are you? Just suggesting that he
do something else would be greeted with, "yeah, that sounds like fun,
I'll do that after this next show." Then after that it is, "One more
show mom." every half hour. But left to his own devices the TV would be
on all day and he would do nothing else.

> <<And, when I went and read the stuff at
> unschooling.com and forwarded what I found>>
>
> Reading more there and posting less here might change your
> perspective and mood. You really don't seem happy with this list at
all.
>

I'm not unhappy with the list. I've seen some real potential from a few
people here. And I was pleasantly surprised to find Lynda here.

> <<Now, I have a challenge for you: Show me ONE place where I have
> insulted anyone here.>>
>
> My reading back through the list won't add to the body of useful
> suggestions for unschoolers. Neither will the continuation of this
> conversation, I'm afraid.
> Sandra
>
>
So, looking to see if what you think I said was actually what I said and
if you may possibly be misjudging me, is not worth your time. Too bad.
I hope you don't miss out on many friendships that way - judging people
too quickly and then being unwilling to take a look at what you have
decided about them.

Bridget


~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/9/2001 12:09:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:


> too quickly and then being unwilling to take a look at what you have
> decided about them.
>
> Bridget
>
>

In reading through these posts, it appears to me that there is a level of
defensiveness and a unwillingness to look within to see if there may indeed
be an opportunity to learn something. It seems that when one is constantly
trying to defend, explain, etc. themselves, there is a big clue. When I get
into situation myself, I realize it is time to take a step back and figure
out why "I" am getting so defensive on my own positions, for if in reality if
I am comfortable with what I am doing, there is no need to defend it. . . it
simply won't push my buttons. But if there is something for me to learn, I
will without a doubt, defend defend defend. The situations and people I
encounter that give me the most difficulty are there for me to learn
something, and undoubtedly they will come up over and over until I take the
time to look at it. . .
my opinions offered up for anyone's consideration who chooses it.

lovemary




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Johanna SanInocencio

Ok, I remember now. The name didn't ring a bell, probably because I had
dismissed the ideas presented as ridiculous and being a mom of six I also
thought they were cruel and inhumane. I do not believe Jesus ever intended
us to deny our humanity, and a regimented program such as this would surely
do so.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1418


>
> << Ezzo? >>
>
> There's much MUCH more out there, but this might should be enough to
satisfy
> the curiosity and to avoid further time on this list.
>
> "These professionals expressed disagreement with many of the childrearing
> methods advocated by the Ezzos, and worry about the complete lack of
credible
> scientific foundation for the program.
> Why has BABYWISE raised so many red flags for informed observers? Perhaps
the
> most hotly debated aspect of the program has to do with the Ezzos' views
on
> routines for young children. BABYWISE admonishes parents to establish a
> regular schedule for infants immediately after birth; they propose that an
> unscheduled baby will lead to an undisciplined and difficult child with
> "metabolic chaos" (a term not found in any medical literature). In the
> religious version of the manual, the Ezzos strongly suggest that it is
God's
> will that infants eat, sleep, and play on an externally imposed schedule.
> They write that God is a "God of order." In fact, the subtitle of their
> parenting curriculum is "Growing Kids God's Way." The book insists that
> scheduling an infant will actually help his nervous system to "mature"
more
> quickly. In BABYWISE, the Ezzos advocate something they refer to as
> "parent-directed feeding," in which infants, whether breast- or
bottle-fed,
> should be offered nourishment only every three hours or so as timed by the
> parents. In earlier versions of the manual, parents were urged to wait at
> least four hours between feedings. After vociferous outcry from the
medical
> community, the guidelines were modified. Still, according to BABYWISE,
> "demand feeding," the method currently advocated for infants by all major
> medical organizations, is a faddish and child-centered practice that can
only
> lead to unhappy babies and mothers. Both GFI infant-care manuals advise
that
> demand-fed infants often grow into children who steal, who will be unable
to
> handle real life, and who will "have difficulty with siblings and peers."
Dr.
> Robert Bucknam, the Denver-area pediatrician who co-authored BABYWISE with
> the Ezzos, describes this alleged phenomenon: "As they get older," said
> Bucknam, "every whine is an opportunity to feed. They become more
demanding.
> They become brats." Most child-health experts couldn't disagree more
strongly
> ....
>
> "In an interview with the Bradenton Herald (of Florida), Kearney discussed
> the experiences she had working with a number of parents who were using
the
> Ezzo feeding program. In each case, babies were gaining weight slowly and
> exhibiting signs of depression. Despite Kearney's professional advice to
feed
> the babies more often, these parents refused in accordance with the
BABYWISE
> schedule."
>
> http://www.bestfed.com/katie/ezzos.htm
>
> Sandra
>
> "Everything counts."
> http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
> http://expage.com/SandraDodd
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

Ezzo is a self-proclaimed expert on childrearing and one of the more
fanatical of the 3Rs. He's written books about how all children
should be raised under strickly controlled circumstances from the day
they are born. That includes scheduling feedings, scheduling
sleeping times, even scheduling when to change diapers! He believes
that infants should be "trained" to self at scheduled times.

Now, that is bad enough and followers have ended up with malnurioused
children. CPS, pediatricians and even the church he belonged to have
been after him because he isn't a doctor and has no credentials to be
spouting off about how to raise babies.

But, what really set me off are his speeches about sparing the rod
and spoiling the child. He advocates carrying a "rod" in the baby's
diaper bag! "Discipline must begin in the cradle."

Need I say more! The guy is absolutely disgusting!

Lynda

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Johanna SanInocencio"
<saninocencio@c...> wrote:
> Ezzo?
> Johanna