Dad wants to switch to more structured approach for late reader.
[email protected]
To all unschoolers who have let their children learn to read when
they were ready; How did you approach the writing issue? My oldest,
Ben, took off with his reading at age 11 1/2 without benefit of any
reading lessons, or formal "lessons" of any kind. Now he is 13 and
his Dad and I are concerned about his aversion to writing of any
kind. He will print his name, that's it! My husband thinks it's time
to require regular writing, math, etc....I don't want to do anything
which will increase his aversion to writing.
I have read lots in HEM and GWS about the late reader, always
including the encouragement "They will read, when they are ready!".
But I have not seen similar stuff on this issue of writing. Yes, once
they are reading, supposedly, they will start writing, but I would
like to hear from unschoolers who have been through this! When we
faced the reading hurdle we had lots of evidence to back up our faith
that Ben would read if we provided the right environment and plenty
of space. Does the same hold true in this case?
I would greatly appreciate hearing from any unschoolers, either
parents or those who personally went through this aversion to writing
themselves. I am hoping for encouragement to keep on this radical
unschooling path.
Joyce Schaeffer
they were ready; How did you approach the writing issue? My oldest,
Ben, took off with his reading at age 11 1/2 without benefit of any
reading lessons, or formal "lessons" of any kind. Now he is 13 and
his Dad and I are concerned about his aversion to writing of any
kind. He will print his name, that's it! My husband thinks it's time
to require regular writing, math, etc....I don't want to do anything
which will increase his aversion to writing.
I have read lots in HEM and GWS about the late reader, always
including the encouragement "They will read, when they are ready!".
But I have not seen similar stuff on this issue of writing. Yes, once
they are reading, supposedly, they will start writing, but I would
like to hear from unschoolers who have been through this! When we
faced the reading hurdle we had lots of evidence to back up our faith
that Ben would read if we provided the right environment and plenty
of space. Does the same hold true in this case?
I would greatly appreciate hearing from any unschoolers, either
parents or those who personally went through this aversion to writing
themselves. I am hoping for encouragement to keep on this radical
unschooling path.
Joyce Schaeffer
Tanya Barrera
I have asked them to do things like make a list for me of things we need to remember to do or to write the grocery list for me. When they are looking something up online I will tell them how to spell it but I get them to write it down. It's not much writing but it is the closest I've gone to making them write.
Tanya
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tanya
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/01 3:24:22 PM, joycer06234@... writes:
<< Now he is 13 and
his Dad and I are concerned about his aversion to writing of any
kind. He will print his name, that's it! >>
Does he type? Meaning, does he go online and use e-mail, chatrooms, etc?
That's how my kids learned to write. Not with a pencil.
I taught Jr. High English, kids 12-15. They don't want to write even if
they've had formal school up to that point. Very few will write for fun, and
usually then it's notes to friends.
I think your husband probably has unrealistic memories or wishful thinking
about what kids can/should write.
Just the other day Richard Prystowsky and I gave a talk on writing. You can
get a tape of it for $5 and postage from the company that made the tapes.
The address and all is at http://expage.com/HSCFollowUp, and there's a tiny
bit more about it at http://expage.com/sandrawriting
Richard teaches college writing. He did two other workshops on writing at
the same conference. For $15 you might buy your son's freedom back!!
<,But I have not seen similar stuff on this issue of writing. >>
Richard wants me to write a book with him. He seems very serious. The talk
went super well, and I think we said things a lot of those parents hadn't
heard.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< Now he is 13 and
his Dad and I are concerned about his aversion to writing of any
kind. He will print his name, that's it! >>
Does he type? Meaning, does he go online and use e-mail, chatrooms, etc?
That's how my kids learned to write. Not with a pencil.
I taught Jr. High English, kids 12-15. They don't want to write even if
they've had formal school up to that point. Very few will write for fun, and
usually then it's notes to friends.
I think your husband probably has unrealistic memories or wishful thinking
about what kids can/should write.
Just the other day Richard Prystowsky and I gave a talk on writing. You can
get a tape of it for $5 and postage from the company that made the tapes.
The address and all is at http://expage.com/HSCFollowUp, and there's a tiny
bit more about it at http://expage.com/sandrawriting
Richard teaches college writing. He did two other workshops on writing at
the same conference. For $15 you might buy your son's freedom back!!
<,But I have not seen similar stuff on this issue of writing. >>
Richard wants me to write a book with him. He seems very serious. The talk
went super well, and I think we said things a lot of those parents hadn't
heard.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Janet
>>He will print his name, that's it! My husband thinks it's timeanything
> to require regular writing, math, etc....I don't want to do
> which will increase his aversion to writing.>>I'll be waiting for the answers as well. Caroline is almost 7 and
today we were reading and she picked up a workbook. The page she
picked asked her to write some words. She started, then made some
sort of squiggle for an "s", then got mad that she couldn't make
an "s" (her writing is really, really bad but I don't comment on
it). I asked her if she would like to practice some things that
would help her, which she did for a few minutes, then lost interest
and went off to find her brother to play.
Of course, my family is kind of iffy on homeschooling (and
unschooling doesn't even compute with them) and I'm getting flak
because her writing is atrocious. (She sends them thank you notes,
etc). I'm not pushing her, either. She is very intellingent and can
speak well, has a great vocabulary and use of language, so I'm not
too concerned at this age yet. <g>
Janet, mom to Caroline, 6, and Thomas, almost 3! and potty trained,
day and night as of last week. WooHoo!!!
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/01 4:02:13 PM, jefhdvm@... writes:
<< I'm getting flak
because her writing is atrocious. (She sends them thank you notes,
etc). I'm not pushing her, either. >>
My kids have (Holly still does) drawn pictures for thank you notes, or we
send a photo of the kid with the thing, and a note from mom. The boys have
typed and printed and then just signed thank-yous.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< I'm getting flak
because her writing is atrocious. (She sends them thank you notes,
etc). I'm not pushing her, either. >>
My kids have (Holly still does) drawn pictures for thank you notes, or we
send a photo of the kid with the thing, and a note from mom. The boys have
typed and printed and then just signed thank-yous.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
*Because of school* most people confuse 'writing' with 'penmanship.'
R Meyers
I sat in on one of Richard's workshops and writing and the biggest thing I walked away with was that when the kids find something that speaks to them THAT is when they will write. At this age most kids don't have experiences to write about and even feelings seem abstract to them. So if you wait until there is something that really grabs him and it requires writing I think you'll be surprised at what he can do. With my son, who doesn't like to write except for names of parts on diagrams of robots he creates on paper he has begun getting more interested in entering contests so he has improved his writing through sending away to enter these contests......just a thought.
Rachel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Joyce,
I don't know about a 13 yo, but here's what I did when my boys were
younger.
I found them each an old briefcase and filled it with papers of all
kinds. Different colors, shapes, sizes, everything EXCEPT the
standard lined binder paper. I also included a selection of
envelopes, small notebooks, post cards, and sticky notes. I added
fun pens, pencils, and markers. A few sticker, too. NO coloring
pages or crayons.
We called these their 'writing cases' and we never went anywhere
without them -- store, car rides, dr appt, Grandma's, etc. I
encouraged notes, secret message writing to me and each other --
anything that involved writing. Spelling and/or grammar didn't count
unless they asked. (I'm a former English teacher and had to bite my
tongue many times to not stick my two cents worth in.) :)
By the way, copy stores were great with free note pads made from left
over paper. We started these when the boys were six and two. The
younger son (11 yo) still maintains one on his own. Both boths enjoy
writing.
Jan in Marysville
I don't know about a 13 yo, but here's what I did when my boys were
younger.
I found them each an old briefcase and filled it with papers of all
kinds. Different colors, shapes, sizes, everything EXCEPT the
standard lined binder paper. I also included a selection of
envelopes, small notebooks, post cards, and sticky notes. I added
fun pens, pencils, and markers. A few sticker, too. NO coloring
pages or crayons.
We called these their 'writing cases' and we never went anywhere
without them -- store, car rides, dr appt, Grandma's, etc. I
encouraged notes, secret message writing to me and each other --
anything that involved writing. Spelling and/or grammar didn't count
unless they asked. (I'm a former English teacher and had to bite my
tongue many times to not stick my two cents worth in.) :)
By the way, copy stores were great with free note pads made from left
over paper. We started these when the boys were six and two. The
younger son (11 yo) still maintains one on his own. Both boths enjoy
writing.
Jan in Marysville
[email protected]
If you are talking "penmanship", sorry I can't help. None of mine
enjoy handwriting.
In the long haul will they really need to write to have a full life?
For my kids yes because it is a passion. For others not necessarily.
My youngest (14) was a "late" reader. It has only been recently he
has taken to reading books, mostly non-fiction. He and his sister
(16) enjoy writing on-line at www.fanfiction.net - they take
characters i.e.: Star Wars, Dragon Ballz and make up stories and post
them to others. There was a young lady at the conference that
mention a poetry site that sounded cool, but I don't remember what it
was called. My oldest daughter (20) facilitates a writing group for
younger HSers and writes mostly non-fiction but reads mostly
fiction. My oldest son (22) reads mostly non fiction but writes
songs and poetry.
I have writers but I don't have mathematicians or scientists. I'm ok
with that, I have had panic times over the last 12 years but it all
seems to be turning out ok.
IMO Our job is to give them time and space to find their passion and
purpose.
Debbie
enjoy handwriting.
In the long haul will they really need to write to have a full life?
For my kids yes because it is a passion. For others not necessarily.
My youngest (14) was a "late" reader. It has only been recently he
has taken to reading books, mostly non-fiction. He and his sister
(16) enjoy writing on-line at www.fanfiction.net - they take
characters i.e.: Star Wars, Dragon Ballz and make up stories and post
them to others. There was a young lady at the conference that
mention a poetry site that sounded cool, but I don't remember what it
was called. My oldest daughter (20) facilitates a writing group for
younger HSers and writes mostly non-fiction but reads mostly
fiction. My oldest son (22) reads mostly non fiction but writes
songs and poetry.
I have writers but I don't have mathematicians or scientists. I'm ok
with that, I have had panic times over the last 12 years but it all
seems to be turning out ok.
IMO Our job is to give them time and space to find their passion and
purpose.
Debbie
[email protected]
On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:20:34 -0000 joycer06234@... writes:
reading fluently (i.e., reading short chapter books or the equivalent
independently). This was true for my daughter as well. I also know kids
who started writing before they read fluently at all, so obviously there
are many patterns, but the two-year gap seems common. I've never pushed
writing (or anything) and my daughter just spontaneously started writing
poems, interviewing people for a book she planned to write, making "To
Do" lists (which I never do)... it was another Really Cool Thing to watch
unfolding.
Daron
> To all unschoolers who have let their children learn to read whenA lot of kids I know have started writing about two years after they were
> they were ready; How did you approach the writing issue?
reading fluently (i.e., reading short chapter books or the equivalent
independently). This was true for my daughter as well. I also know kids
who started writing before they read fluently at all, so obviously there
are many patterns, but the two-year gap seems common. I've never pushed
writing (or anything) and my daughter just spontaneously started writing
poems, interviewing people for a book she planned to write, making "To
Do" lists (which I never do)... it was another Really Cool Thing to watch
unfolding.
Daron
Julie Stauffer
<<his aversion to writing>>
I do not have an older child so I am hesitant to respond but something just
happened in our family that might be relevant. My 8yo ds has an aversion to
reading. No matter what the word might be, he will say he can't read it,
except maybe "no" or "stop". My 4yo is asking to learn to read so I labeled
everything in the house (suggested by a thread on this board, thanks!!). I
asked 4yo Marsie is she wanted to play a treasure hunt and she did. So I
made a duplicate set of cards and we would tape those up behind the first
set of labels in a manner so that when you found the match to the card in
your hand, you look behind it and the card taped there would tell you where
to go next. Marsie played a couple of times but then wanted to go do
something else. The 8yo Zach became enthralled with the game (he loves
prizes, even if the prize is one of his cars that he already owns but we
have hidden). He knew almost all the words already, things like "cabinet",
"computer", "bulletin board". He didn't need to run around and match the
letters on the card to the ones on the labels. He simply read them and took
off at a dead run.
The point of this way too long post is that Zach could read, he often chose
not to read but he COULD read if push came to shove. He learned how even if
I didn't see it, even if I didn't know it was happening. My guess would be
writing would be similar.
Julie
I do not have an older child so I am hesitant to respond but something just
happened in our family that might be relevant. My 8yo ds has an aversion to
reading. No matter what the word might be, he will say he can't read it,
except maybe "no" or "stop". My 4yo is asking to learn to read so I labeled
everything in the house (suggested by a thread on this board, thanks!!). I
asked 4yo Marsie is she wanted to play a treasure hunt and she did. So I
made a duplicate set of cards and we would tape those up behind the first
set of labels in a manner so that when you found the match to the card in
your hand, you look behind it and the card taped there would tell you where
to go next. Marsie played a couple of times but then wanted to go do
something else. The 8yo Zach became enthralled with the game (he loves
prizes, even if the prize is one of his cars that he already owns but we
have hidden). He knew almost all the words already, things like "cabinet",
"computer", "bulletin board". He didn't need to run around and match the
letters on the card to the ones on the labels. He simply read them and took
off at a dead run.
The point of this way too long post is that Zach could read, he often chose
not to read but he COULD read if push came to shove. He learned how even if
I didn't see it, even if I didn't know it was happening. My guess would be
writing would be similar.
Julie