Hello... (newbie note)
Sterling
Hello all,
I just joined this group and thought I should introduce myself...
My name is Elizabeth and I'm a mother of three, ages 11, 9, and 2
1/2. My 9 year old daughter is currently living with her dad in
California, but the two boys both live with me near London, England.
The 11 year old is now in his second (non-consecutive) year of
homeschooling. The littlest can't quite be said to be "homeschooling"
until he is "school age" I suppose, but he is definitely learning
lots... that being the thing kids do and all. ;)
My situation is probably a lot different from most in one key way --
I am not a full-time stay at home mom, and neither is my partner. The
little one goes to a childminder every morning plus two afternoons a
week and the oldest often comes with me to the office or out to
meetings. I do have the luxury of being able to get most of my work
done anywhere (since I'm building Web site software and such), so at
the moment I work from home three days a week.
The first year of homeschooling was frought with myriad fights over
the time it took Noe to get work done. That boy has an amazing way of
making a simple task turn into a two hour long chore and it grates on
me like nothing you can imagine. Last year Noe went back to a regular
school -- a very good one, mind you, where he was quite happy and
everything -- but he still managed to nearly flunk all of his
academic subjects. I could listen to him talk for hours about
everything he was learning, but he simply didn't turn assignments in,
and could not make the grade. This year I realized that there was
going to be no education at all if it wasn't a self-guided one. He
has to want to learn what he's learning, there has to be a purpose to
it in HIS mind, and then I have to get out of the way and let him get
to it.
At the moment there are a few things that are paramount in his eleven
year old brain: 1) Warhammer 4000 games (a role playing game with
miniatures and things) 2) Sci-Fi fantasy stories/movies/art and his
own inventions based on same and 3) his personal quest to be
financially independent by the age of 12 (one month away). While none
of these seem very sensible or realistic to me (though I do love the
sci-fi!), I've been looking for ways to use them as hooks to get him
to learn subjects that he needs. I've used the role playing games as
a way to get him to study history and write about it -- to make new
scenarios. I've used his desire to create sci-fi type "inventions" of
his own to teach him math (by way of mechanical drawing to design
things) and science (by way of the details he needs to create a
theoretically functioning "invention"). And I've finally decided to
let him loose with his entrepreneur's bug and have hooked him up with
Young First Tuesday so that he can start a business of his own(which,
by the way, he has been bugging me about since he was 6!).
I'm nervous as all get out... I'm afraid he won't learn things
quickly enough. I'm afraid he won't be able to keep up with others
when (if?) he goes back to school or when he goes to university. I'm
worried sick that he will forever find ways to make a ten minute math
assignment take 3 hours. And so, here I am to learn from all of you
very wonderful and confident (or at least more experienced?)
homeschooling parents. :)
- elizabeth
I just joined this group and thought I should introduce myself...
My name is Elizabeth and I'm a mother of three, ages 11, 9, and 2
1/2. My 9 year old daughter is currently living with her dad in
California, but the two boys both live with me near London, England.
The 11 year old is now in his second (non-consecutive) year of
homeschooling. The littlest can't quite be said to be "homeschooling"
until he is "school age" I suppose, but he is definitely learning
lots... that being the thing kids do and all. ;)
My situation is probably a lot different from most in one key way --
I am not a full-time stay at home mom, and neither is my partner. The
little one goes to a childminder every morning plus two afternoons a
week and the oldest often comes with me to the office or out to
meetings. I do have the luxury of being able to get most of my work
done anywhere (since I'm building Web site software and such), so at
the moment I work from home three days a week.
The first year of homeschooling was frought with myriad fights over
the time it took Noe to get work done. That boy has an amazing way of
making a simple task turn into a two hour long chore and it grates on
me like nothing you can imagine. Last year Noe went back to a regular
school -- a very good one, mind you, where he was quite happy and
everything -- but he still managed to nearly flunk all of his
academic subjects. I could listen to him talk for hours about
everything he was learning, but he simply didn't turn assignments in,
and could not make the grade. This year I realized that there was
going to be no education at all if it wasn't a self-guided one. He
has to want to learn what he's learning, there has to be a purpose to
it in HIS mind, and then I have to get out of the way and let him get
to it.
At the moment there are a few things that are paramount in his eleven
year old brain: 1) Warhammer 4000 games (a role playing game with
miniatures and things) 2) Sci-Fi fantasy stories/movies/art and his
own inventions based on same and 3) his personal quest to be
financially independent by the age of 12 (one month away). While none
of these seem very sensible or realistic to me (though I do love the
sci-fi!), I've been looking for ways to use them as hooks to get him
to learn subjects that he needs. I've used the role playing games as
a way to get him to study history and write about it -- to make new
scenarios. I've used his desire to create sci-fi type "inventions" of
his own to teach him math (by way of mechanical drawing to design
things) and science (by way of the details he needs to create a
theoretically functioning "invention"). And I've finally decided to
let him loose with his entrepreneur's bug and have hooked him up with
Young First Tuesday so that he can start a business of his own(which,
by the way, he has been bugging me about since he was 6!).
I'm nervous as all get out... I'm afraid he won't learn things
quickly enough. I'm afraid he won't be able to keep up with others
when (if?) he goes back to school or when he goes to university. I'm
worried sick that he will forever find ways to make a ten minute math
assignment take 3 hours. And so, here I am to learn from all of you
very wonderful and confident (or at least more experienced?)
homeschooling parents. :)
- elizabeth
[email protected]
]
<< . I'm
worried sick that he will forever find ways to make a ten minute math
assignment take 3 hours. >>
There ARE no ten minute math assignments in the real world.
If he's not in school let him be OUT of school, away from school, and let
school be out of and away from him.
In the real world if it takes him a second or an hour to figure something out
it doesn't matter. If he's always an hour guy, he just needs not to count
out change, or work where the cash register tells him what to give back and
spits the coins out.
I wouldn't worry about how long it's taking him to do arithmetic, but I
*would* stop giving him math assignments.
Please read some or all of www.unschooling.com as soon as you can!
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< . I'm
worried sick that he will forever find ways to make a ten minute math
assignment take 3 hours. >>
There ARE no ten minute math assignments in the real world.
If he's not in school let him be OUT of school, away from school, and let
school be out of and away from him.
In the real world if it takes him a second or an hour to figure something out
it doesn't matter. If he's always an hour guy, he just needs not to count
out change, or work where the cash register tells him what to give back and
spits the coins out.
I wouldn't worry about how long it's taking him to do arithmetic, but I
*would* stop giving him math assignments.
Please read some or all of www.unschooling.com as soon as you can!
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Elizabeth Sterling Wall
At 18:05 10/08/2001 -0400, you wrote:
you need to be able to do something in a given amount of time. There are
many times when the ability to focus even through a period devoid of
motivation is vital for success. While it is most important for my son to
learn the concepts in general so that he can do them, I believe that it is
also important for him to be able to function within the structure that
society provides when necessary. I think that it's about balance, not extremes.
"Well, if he doesn't learn enough to fit into corporate culture or be an
independent business owner, he can take a minimum wage job at Burger King."
Burger jockeying may be wonderfully honest work, but it sure makes it a lot
more difficult to scrape the money together to raise a family. I've been
poor. I don't want my kids to have to be poor for lack of the tools to
support themselves better.
unschooling was... I find an eclectic path is beneficial. Unschooling is
one piece in that.
- elizabeth
"What we need are more people who specialize in the impossible."
-- Theodore Roethke, poet
>There ARE no ten minute math assignments in the real world.I disagree with this. There are many times in the real world when
>If he's not in school let him be OUT of school, away from school, and let
>school be out of and away from him.
>
>In the real world if it takes him a second or an hour to figure something out
>it doesn't matter.
you need to be able to do something in a given amount of time. There are
many times when the ability to focus even through a period devoid of
motivation is vital for success. While it is most important for my son to
learn the concepts in general so that he can do them, I believe that it is
also important for him to be able to function within the structure that
society provides when necessary. I think that it's about balance, not extremes.
> If he's always an hour guy, he just needs not to countOuch. I don't like that idea at all. That's basically saying,
>out change, or work where the cash register tells him what to give back and
>spits the coins out.
"Well, if he doesn't learn enough to fit into corporate culture or be an
independent business owner, he can take a minimum wage job at Burger King."
Burger jockeying may be wonderfully honest work, but it sure makes it a lot
more difficult to scrape the money together to raise a family. I've been
poor. I don't want my kids to have to be poor for lack of the tools to
support themselves better.
>Please read some or all of www.unschooling.com as soon as you can!I wouldn't have been on this list if I didn't know what
unschooling was... I find an eclectic path is beneficial. Unschooling is
one piece in that.
- elizabeth
"What we need are more people who specialize in the impossible."
-- Theodore Roethke, poet
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/11/01 4:58:44 PM, elizabeth@... writes:
<< Ouch. I don't like that idea at all. That's basically saying,
"Well, if he doesn't learn enough to fit into corporate culture or be an
independent business owner, he can take a minimum wage job at Burger King."
learn to do ANY "assignments." My children's experience shows otherwise.
-=-I don't want my kids to have to be poor for lack of the tools to
support themselves better.
-=-
For some reason you have them out of school. For some reason you're on the
unschooling list.
For some reason you don't trust them to learn math.
-=-I find an eclectic path is beneficial. Unschooling is
one piece in that.-=-
I disagree that unschooling is a subset of eclectic homeschooling.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< Ouch. I don't like that idea at all. That's basically saying,
"Well, if he doesn't learn enough to fit into corporate culture or be an
independent business owner, he can take a minimum wage job at Burger King."
>>You seemed to be suggesting that without math assignments he would never
learn to do ANY "assignments." My children's experience shows otherwise.
-=-I don't want my kids to have to be poor for lack of the tools to
support themselves better.
-=-
For some reason you have them out of school. For some reason you're on the
unschooling list.
For some reason you don't trust them to learn math.
-=-I find an eclectic path is beneficial. Unschooling is
one piece in that.-=-
I disagree that unschooling is a subset of eclectic homeschooling.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Elizabeth Sterling Wall
At 19:11 11/08/2001 -0400, you wrote:
math assignments = math assignments -- or rather, math assignments =
preparation for math exams, which Noe needs in order to get the
qualifications that *he* wants so that he can be an engineer.
unschooling is a subset of eclectic homeschooling in general. Eclectic
homeschooling simply means the use of different methods together. I find
that an eclectic approach is good in our household and unschooling is one
of the methods that makes up the whole of our eclectic environment.
- elizabeth
"What we need are more people who specialize in the impossible."
-- Theodore Roethke, poet
>You seemed to be suggesting that without math assignments he would neverThe issue wasn't math assignments = all assignments, but rather
>learn to do ANY "assignments." My children's experience shows otherwise.
math assignments = math assignments -- or rather, math assignments =
preparation for math exams, which Noe needs in order to get the
qualifications that *he* wants so that he can be an engineer.
>-=-I find an eclectic path is beneficial. Unschooling isI apologize for the misunderstanding here. I am not saying that
>one piece in that.-=-
>
>I disagree that unschooling is a subset of eclectic homeschooling.
unschooling is a subset of eclectic homeschooling in general. Eclectic
homeschooling simply means the use of different methods together. I find
that an eclectic approach is good in our household and unschooling is one
of the methods that makes up the whole of our eclectic environment.
- elizabeth
"What we need are more people who specialize in the impossible."
-- Theodore Roethke, poet
[email protected]
On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:21:59 +0100 Elizabeth Sterling Wall
<elizabeth@...> writes:
vegetarian approach with some bites and a carnivorous approach with
others. It doesn't work that way. Both unschoolers and vegetarians are
defined, in large part, by what they do not do.
Daron
<elizabeth@...> writes:
> I apologize for the misunderstanding here. I am not saying thatfind
> unschooling is a subset of eclectic homeschooling in general. Eclectic
> homeschooling simply means the use of different methods together. I
> that an eclectic approach is good in our household and unschooling isone
> of the methods that makes up the whole of our eclectic environment.I think that would be like saying that as an omnivore, you use a
vegetarian approach with some bites and a carnivorous approach with
others. It doesn't work that way. Both unschoolers and vegetarians are
defined, in large part, by what they do not do.
Daron
Carrie Troy
<<I think that would be like saying that as an omnivore, you use a
vegetarian approach with some bites and a carnivorous approach with
others. It doesn't work that way. Both unschoolers and vegetarians are
defined, in large part, by what they do not do. >>
I believe that being largely an unschooler doesn't mean you can't slip a
little bookwork/study/drills in when you feel the need. I really don't
think that that detracts from the unschooling way at all. There can be
hard-core devoted unschoolers, and at the same time people who go by the
unschooling philosophy yet still take an eclectic approach at times. It
doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach.
Carrie, mom to
Seth, 11
Austin, 9
Kyson, 4
Aidan, 2.5
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vegetarian approach with some bites and a carnivorous approach with
others. It doesn't work that way. Both unschoolers and vegetarians are
defined, in large part, by what they do not do. >>
I believe that being largely an unschooler doesn't mean you can't slip a
little bookwork/study/drills in when you feel the need. I really don't
think that that detracts from the unschooling way at all. There can be
hard-core devoted unschoolers, and at the same time people who go by the
unschooling philosophy yet still take an eclectic approach at times. It
doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach.
Carrie, mom to
Seth, 11
Austin, 9
Kyson, 4
Aidan, 2.5
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Just wanted to mention, I love your children's names!
Laura, mom to
Cagney, 15
Kimberlee 14
Candice, 11
Savannah, 8
Brandon 2 (almost 2.5)
Laura, mom to
Cagney, 15
Kimberlee 14
Candice, 11
Savannah, 8
Brandon 2 (almost 2.5)
> Carrie, mom to
> Seth, 11
> Austin, 9
> Kyson, 4
> Aidan, 2.5
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/11/01 6:52:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, TCA1120@...
writes:
<<
I believe that being largely an unschooler doesn't mean you can't slip a
little bookwork/study/drills in when you feel the need. I really don't
think that that detracts from the unschooling way at all. There can be
hard-core devoted unschoolers, and at the same time people who go by the
unschooling philosophy yet still take an eclectic approach at times. It
doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach. >>
I would think it would just be called eclectic or relaxed which is perfectly
fine
also. I think it also depends on what you mean by "slip in". For instance I
purchased some colorful little workbooks for my kids and tossed them
on the table. When the kids came home from a day in the water with
dad they were all over them, wanting to know who's is who's. Next thing
I know my oldest is bored (which I figured she would be), but the two
younger ones are eating them up. Turns out I could only help one at a
time so older sister helped the youngest <g>. Nice little benefit. I do
not assign. I do not tell them they have to do it ever. I suppose at some
point in life if they can't make exact change I might say, hey you know
this is something I think is going to be very important to you you might
really want to try learning this. I might even say it more than once. But
I think its the child's choice. And I think the child will most often choose
knowledge. (ps my kids have learned about money using money that
was just an example). The workbooks were just something different
that I thought they would find amusing, like a puzzle or maze book.
Kathy
writes:
<<
I believe that being largely an unschooler doesn't mean you can't slip a
little bookwork/study/drills in when you feel the need. I really don't
think that that detracts from the unschooling way at all. There can be
hard-core devoted unschoolers, and at the same time people who go by the
unschooling philosophy yet still take an eclectic approach at times. It
doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach. >>
I would think it would just be called eclectic or relaxed which is perfectly
fine
also. I think it also depends on what you mean by "slip in". For instance I
purchased some colorful little workbooks for my kids and tossed them
on the table. When the kids came home from a day in the water with
dad they were all over them, wanting to know who's is who's. Next thing
I know my oldest is bored (which I figured she would be), but the two
younger ones are eating them up. Turns out I could only help one at a
time so older sister helped the youngest <g>. Nice little benefit. I do
not assign. I do not tell them they have to do it ever. I suppose at some
point in life if they can't make exact change I might say, hey you know
this is something I think is going to be very important to you you might
really want to try learning this. I might even say it more than once. But
I think its the child's choice. And I think the child will most often choose
knowledge. (ps my kids have learned about money using money that
was just an example). The workbooks were just something different
that I thought they would find amusing, like a puzzle or maze book.
Kathy
Saga
We are purchasing a curriculum even though we are unschooling for a similar
approach - my son needs some structure or else he is not controllable, and
he loves to sit down with me and figure out problems, color, do workbooks,
etc. I think a curriculum was an easy way for me to have things he may be
interested in on hand and also a way for me to get new ideas on what to do
with him when he definitely is needing guidance...
Now let me explain something though, my son is only 2 1/2 but is doing
Kindergarten work - he eats up anything we throw at him and is quite bright.
And we have some behavioral issues that is from a combination of his age
(terrible 2s!), him being gifted (he is incredibly intense), and his
need/desire to do things that are out of his capability in some way (ex: his
fine motor coordination is that of a 3 year olds, not of a kindergartener,
so he gets frustrated VERY easily on a lot of things). He is, at least at
this age, a child who needs some structure, a predictable rhythm throughout
the day, and lots of cuddles and assurance or else he literally breaksdown
and bounces off the walls, screams and hits and throws and cannot control
his own actions, so this is something that works best for our situation.
I usually wait for him to initiate anything, unless I see him getting a
little out of control and needing help focus, then I direct him to
something.
I would not, however, insist on him learning anything. If he gets bored or
doesn't like something, I simply offer other alternatives or let him think
of something else he'd like to do.
But he is often jumping up and down asking if we can have "worksheet time" -
it is what he enjoys, at least for fifteen - thirty minutes at a time a few
times a day.
And I follow his interests. If he's asking a lot aout garbage trucks or how
our car's engine works we run to the library or get online and see what we
can find, and incorporate that into our "structure" :)
-Kristi
-----Original Message-----
From: Natrlmama@... [mailto:Natrlmama@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 8:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling math vs eclectic
teaching/learning methods
In a message dated 8/11/01 6:52:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
TCA1120@...
writes:
<<
I believe that being largely an unschooler doesn't mean you can't slip a
little bookwork/study/drills in when you feel the need. I really don't
think that that detracts from the unschooling way at all. There can be
hard-core devoted unschoolers, and at the same time people who go by the
unschooling philosophy yet still take an eclectic approach at times. It
doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach. >>
I would think it would just be called eclectic or relaxed which is perfectly
fine
also. I think it also depends on what you mean by "slip in". For instance I
purchased some colorful little workbooks for my kids and tossed them
on the table. When the kids came home from a day in the water with
dad they were all over them, wanting to know who's is who's. Next thing
I know my oldest is bored (which I figured she would be), but the two
younger ones are eating them up. Turns out I could only help one at a
time so older sister helped the youngest <g>. Nice little benefit. I do
not assign. I do not tell them they have to do it ever. I suppose at some
point in life if they can't make exact change I might say, hey you know
this is something I think is going to be very important to you you might
really want to try learning this. I might even say it more than once. But
I think its the child's choice. And I think the child will most often
choose
knowledge. (ps my kids have learned about money using money that
was just an example). The workbooks were just something different
that I thought they would find amusing, like a puzzle or maze book.
Kathy
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
approach - my son needs some structure or else he is not controllable, and
he loves to sit down with me and figure out problems, color, do workbooks,
etc. I think a curriculum was an easy way for me to have things he may be
interested in on hand and also a way for me to get new ideas on what to do
with him when he definitely is needing guidance...
Now let me explain something though, my son is only 2 1/2 but is doing
Kindergarten work - he eats up anything we throw at him and is quite bright.
And we have some behavioral issues that is from a combination of his age
(terrible 2s!), him being gifted (he is incredibly intense), and his
need/desire to do things that are out of his capability in some way (ex: his
fine motor coordination is that of a 3 year olds, not of a kindergartener,
so he gets frustrated VERY easily on a lot of things). He is, at least at
this age, a child who needs some structure, a predictable rhythm throughout
the day, and lots of cuddles and assurance or else he literally breaksdown
and bounces off the walls, screams and hits and throws and cannot control
his own actions, so this is something that works best for our situation.
I usually wait for him to initiate anything, unless I see him getting a
little out of control and needing help focus, then I direct him to
something.
I would not, however, insist on him learning anything. If he gets bored or
doesn't like something, I simply offer other alternatives or let him think
of something else he'd like to do.
But he is often jumping up and down asking if we can have "worksheet time" -
it is what he enjoys, at least for fifteen - thirty minutes at a time a few
times a day.
And I follow his interests. If he's asking a lot aout garbage trucks or how
our car's engine works we run to the library or get online and see what we
can find, and incorporate that into our "structure" :)
-Kristi
-----Original Message-----
From: Natrlmama@... [mailto:Natrlmama@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 8:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling math vs eclectic
teaching/learning methods
In a message dated 8/11/01 6:52:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
TCA1120@...
writes:
<<
I believe that being largely an unschooler doesn't mean you can't slip a
little bookwork/study/drills in when you feel the need. I really don't
think that that detracts from the unschooling way at all. There can be
hard-core devoted unschoolers, and at the same time people who go by the
unschooling philosophy yet still take an eclectic approach at times. It
doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach. >>
I would think it would just be called eclectic or relaxed which is perfectly
fine
also. I think it also depends on what you mean by "slip in". For instance I
purchased some colorful little workbooks for my kids and tossed them
on the table. When the kids came home from a day in the water with
dad they were all over them, wanting to know who's is who's. Next thing
I know my oldest is bored (which I figured she would be), but the two
younger ones are eating them up. Turns out I could only help one at a
time so older sister helped the youngest <g>. Nice little benefit. I do
not assign. I do not tell them they have to do it ever. I suppose at some
point in life if they can't make exact change I might say, hey you know
this is something I think is going to be very important to you you might
really want to try learning this. I might even say it more than once. But
I think its the child's choice. And I think the child will most often
choose
knowledge. (ps my kids have learned about money using money that
was just an example). The workbooks were just something different
that I thought they would find amusing, like a puzzle or maze book.
Kathy
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[email protected]
By assigning math worksheets/problem sets/textbook pages, enforcing their
completion, and lamenting his tardiness and lack of interest, you set math
apart from all the other things you don't assign and enforce. You set it
apart as something too tedious to learn from real life uses, or something
boring and uninteresting. Mathematics is way too interesting and exciting a
pursuit for me to destroy the joy of it by forcing it in unsuitable ways on
unwilling children.
Unschooling is about who owns the learning. As long as you're assigning the
task, it isn't unschooling, whether you're assigning math worksheets or
staring at the clouds time.
Deborah in IL
Life, the Universe, and Everything
completion, and lamenting his tardiness and lack of interest, you set math
apart from all the other things you don't assign and enforce. You set it
apart as something too tedious to learn from real life uses, or something
boring and uninteresting. Mathematics is way too interesting and exciting a
pursuit for me to destroy the joy of it by forcing it in unsuitable ways on
unwilling children.
Unschooling is about who owns the learning. As long as you're assigning the
task, it isn't unschooling, whether you're assigning math worksheets or
staring at the clouds time.
Deborah in IL
Life, the Universe, and Everything
[email protected]
Carrie, I love what you said about all or nothing. This is my first year unscooling and to me it is the ability to choose what I think is neccessary at that time. I am obviously no expert, but I have found a very real sence of self in the last few months, when it first occured to me that the most wonderful things in life do not come from textbooks and fire drills. All of the pros kept flowing with few doubts at all. I found all that I need to know on the message boards at unschooling.com and here in my mail box. Oh, the fact that my hubbie loves the idea too really helps. So all of that aside, I love most the idea that I CAN drill and "test" and give "assignments" I CAN also deside what to drill and how. I have quickly learned how to "test" for knowledge and if they are "getting" it. I have also seen how they love to apply what they have learned in the "real world". They don't need to do it on paper or sitting down or even be in a quiet room. Once they think they ha!
ve got it, I let go try it out.(ie. grocery shopping, going on ther own throught the store, reading signs and lables, finding all of the things on the list, counting all the way. They feel so grown up and they act so grown up too. They seeped the reward from searnig things that are boring in text books and run through quickly and catered only to one style of learning...the rarest kind. I like to teach them and they (usually) like learning. As soon as they get bored or aare too frustrated, then that lesson is over, and what to do next. I ask them all day over and over, questions about what they did learn. They get it down eventually. I must say that in the last 3 months of (mostly summer break) my dd has moved up 2 "reading levels" i don't really care much, but her teacher tried for 9 months and couldn't do it. it sort of proves me right, YK?
This has gotten way too long, but I am so excited about my new found adventure
I will go with that
chavva
mother to
ashley nicole 7
Jessica Lorrain 4
Seth daniel almost 2
Carrie Troy <TCA1120@...> wrote:
hava little love
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ve got it, I let go try it out.(ie. grocery shopping, going on ther own throught the store, reading signs and lables, finding all of the things on the list, counting all the way. They feel so grown up and they act so grown up too. They seeped the reward from searnig things that are boring in text books and run through quickly and catered only to one style of learning...the rarest kind. I like to teach them and they (usually) like learning. As soon as they get bored or aare too frustrated, then that lesson is over, and what to do next. I ask them all day over and over, questions about what they did learn. They get it down eventually. I must say that in the last 3 months of (mostly summer break) my dd has moved up 2 "reading levels" i don't really care much, but her teacher tried for 9 months and couldn't do it. it sort of proves me right, YK?
This has gotten way too long, but I am so excited about my new found adventure
I will go with that
chavva
mother to
ashley nicole 7
Jessica Lorrain 4
Seth daniel almost 2
Carrie Troy <TCA1120@...> wrote:
><<I think that would be like saying that as an omnivore, you use a--
>vegetarian approach with some bites and a carnivorous approach with
>others. It doesn't work that way. Both unschoolers and vegetarians are
>defined, in large part, by what they do not do. >>
>
>I believe that being largely an unschooler doesn't mean you can't slip a
>little bookwork/study/drills in when you feel the need. I really don't
>think that that detracts from the unschooling way at all. There can be
>hard-core devoted unschoolers, and at the same time people who go by the
>unschooling philosophy yet still take an eclectic approach at times. It
>doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach.
>
>Carrie, mom to
>Seth, 11
>Austin, 9
>Kyson, 4
>Aidan, 2.5
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
hava little love
__________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]
You also set apart the other subjects by Not assigning them. "Math must be so important because mom assigns it when she lets me learn to read, learn about science, and do PE all on my own. Therefore grammar isn't all that important to learn."
If the child is choosing when and where to do math, reading, playing, then no one subject gains more importance than another.
Joy in NM <-- new to the list.
By assigning math ... you set math
apart from all the other things you don't assign and enforce.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If the child is choosing when and where to do math, reading, playing, then no one subject gains more importance than another.
Joy in NM <-- new to the list.
By assigning math ... you set math
apart from all the other things you don't assign and enforce.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/11/01 10:17:55 PM, mom@... writes:
<< He is, at least at
this age, a child who needs some structure, a predictable rhythm throughout
the day, and lots of cuddles and assurance or else he literally breaksdown
and bounces off the walls, screams and hits and throws and cannot control
his own actions, >>
Does he get enough running, climbing, jumping, singing, yelling, throwing and
pounding? A three year old boy's agression isn't likely to be satisfied by
worksheets.
If you haven't already looked into Howard Gardner's _Frames of Mind,_ I think
it would be full of great ideas for your situation.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< He is, at least at
this age, a child who needs some structure, a predictable rhythm throughout
the day, and lots of cuddles and assurance or else he literally breaksdown
and bounces off the walls, screams and hits and throws and cannot control
his own actions, >>
Does he get enough running, climbing, jumping, singing, yelling, throwing and
pounding? A three year old boy's agression isn't likely to be satisfied by
worksheets.
If you haven't already looked into Howard Gardner's _Frames of Mind,_ I think
it would be full of great ideas for your situation.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/11/01 7:52:19 PM, TCA1120@... writes:
<< I believe that being largely an unschooler...>>
I'm glad you said "largely..." instead of just "being an unschooler."
I like the vegetarian analogy. There are a lot of people who say "We are
largely vegetarian" or "we rarely eat meat" but it isn't a religion for them.
Total vegetarians are probably sorry for them that they're not getting the
maximum benefit, and wish they wouldn't say "vegetarian" just because they
only eat chicken and fish but avoid pork and beef.
<<I am more than justified calling
myself an unschooler even though I occasionally (I don't know, once a
week, twice a week?) ask my kids to fill out a math sheet whenever they
feel like it. >>
You are acting like an unschooler all but in that thing.
But inside you there must be other doubts and scheduling situations, I'm
thinking. If you really believed children could and would learn all the
things they need, then you would not think to assign with a deadline a math
worksheet.
I'm not justifying my calling myself an unschooler. I'm not being anything
else.
<<I can't be an unschooler???>>
SURE you can be! As soon as you understand how assigning math can harm your
children's learning it their own way and with joy, you'll be one step closer
to being an unschooler instead of just justifying calling yourself an
unschooler.
Each of my kids has figured out his or her own way to do arithmetic as it
came along, and in their heads. If you said "Do you know your times tables?"
you would get cow looks, but Kirby explained simply and quickly to some other
kids at the gaming shop last month how to multiply by 18 in your head, and
they got it and were glad.
School doesn'tids have figured out 6% (sales tax) in their heads since they
started getting allowance. It's easy. Doing it the written-out school way
is NOT easy. They can figure tax, but the wouldn't be able to do that
worksheet right now. Someday, maybe. Someday, because they understand in
their gut what 6% means, and 30% (the discount Kirby's employment earns them
all at the gaming shop), they'll be able to plug those numbers into the
equation and see easily how to figure out 19.7 percent.
But if they had had to learn the formula first, if I had TAUGHT them 6% in a
decimals way, or in a fractions-equation way, they would probably think they
did not know, nor were they smart enough to know, how to do that.
If someone wants to be an engineer, it will probably be because math is easy
for him, because his mind and soul are full of patterns and causes and
effects. So is all of nature. So is all of every day. Setting math
worksheets in the midst of all that will break up more patterns than it will
create. And it will break up the pattern of his building his own, personal,
cool, workable model of the universe inside himself.
None of your kids are old enough to being studying engineering, but they're
all old enough for you to dampen their joy and to cause them to think math
isn't as fun as other things are.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< I believe that being largely an unschooler...>>
I'm glad you said "largely..." instead of just "being an unschooler."
I like the vegetarian analogy. There are a lot of people who say "We are
largely vegetarian" or "we rarely eat meat" but it isn't a religion for them.
Total vegetarians are probably sorry for them that they're not getting the
maximum benefit, and wish they wouldn't say "vegetarian" just because they
only eat chicken and fish but avoid pork and beef.
<<I am more than justified calling
myself an unschooler even though I occasionally (I don't know, once a
week, twice a week?) ask my kids to fill out a math sheet whenever they
feel like it. >>
You are acting like an unschooler all but in that thing.
But inside you there must be other doubts and scheduling situations, I'm
thinking. If you really believed children could and would learn all the
things they need, then you would not think to assign with a deadline a math
worksheet.
I'm not justifying my calling myself an unschooler. I'm not being anything
else.
<<I can't be an unschooler???>>
SURE you can be! As soon as you understand how assigning math can harm your
children's learning it their own way and with joy, you'll be one step closer
to being an unschooler instead of just justifying calling yourself an
unschooler.
Each of my kids has figured out his or her own way to do arithmetic as it
came along, and in their heads. If you said "Do you know your times tables?"
you would get cow looks, but Kirby explained simply and quickly to some other
kids at the gaming shop last month how to multiply by 18 in your head, and
they got it and were glad.
School doesn'tids have figured out 6% (sales tax) in their heads since they
started getting allowance. It's easy. Doing it the written-out school way
is NOT easy. They can figure tax, but the wouldn't be able to do that
worksheet right now. Someday, maybe. Someday, because they understand in
their gut what 6% means, and 30% (the discount Kirby's employment earns them
all at the gaming shop), they'll be able to plug those numbers into the
equation and see easily how to figure out 19.7 percent.
But if they had had to learn the formula first, if I had TAUGHT them 6% in a
decimals way, or in a fractions-equation way, they would probably think they
did not know, nor were they smart enough to know, how to do that.
If someone wants to be an engineer, it will probably be because math is easy
for him, because his mind and soul are full of patterns and causes and
effects. So is all of nature. So is all of every day. Setting math
worksheets in the midst of all that will break up more patterns than it will
create. And it will break up the pattern of his building his own, personal,
cool, workable model of the universe inside himself.
None of your kids are old enough to being studying engineering, but they're
all old enough for you to dampen their joy and to cause them to think math
isn't as fun as other things are.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/12/01 12:15:09 AM, chavvajo@... writes:
<< I ask them all day over and over, questions about what they did learn.
They get it down eventually.>>
They'd have more time to learn without the questions, though.
I'm serious. You can tell without asking. Asking perpetuates the
object/field division.
<<I must say that in the last 3 months of (mostly summer break) my dd has
moved up 2 "reading levels" i don't really care much,...>>
Are you sure? Are you going to quit being aware of reading levels soon?
<<... but her teacher tried for 9 months and couldn't do it. it sort of
proves me right, YK? >>
It might only prove she wasn't ready during those nine months and became
ready while you were "teaching" her (if you were).
First year is full of awareness of what they would have been doing in school,
and while that probably never can go away totally, it can be stored in the
background with other school considerations (like what grade they would be
in, and how long til the end of the semester, and other constructs which
don't exist in nature).
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< I ask them all day over and over, questions about what they did learn.
They get it down eventually.>>
They'd have more time to learn without the questions, though.
I'm serious. You can tell without asking. Asking perpetuates the
object/field division.
<<I must say that in the last 3 months of (mostly summer break) my dd has
moved up 2 "reading levels" i don't really care much,...>>
Are you sure? Are you going to quit being aware of reading levels soon?
<<... but her teacher tried for 9 months and couldn't do it. it sort of
proves me right, YK? >>
It might only prove she wasn't ready during those nine months and became
ready while you were "teaching" her (if you were).
First year is full of awareness of what they would have been doing in school,
and while that probably never can go away totally, it can be stored in the
background with other school considerations (like what grade they would be
in, and how long til the end of the semester, and other constructs which
don't exist in nature).
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Saga
Does he get enough running, climbing, jumping, singing, yelling, throwing
and
pounding? A three year old boy's agression isn't likely to be satisfied by
worksheets.
If you haven't already looked into Howard Gardner's _Frames of Mind,_ I
think
it would be full of great ideas for your situation.
I will look into that book, thank you. He does get a lot of rough play
though. Wrestling with daddy, running and climbing at the park (daily),
crashing cars at home, dancing to music daily (until he collapses from
exhaustion! LOL), stuff like that. His meltdowns aren't really forms of
aggression, I don't think. I just don't think he knows how to get himself
back under control after he starts going downhill. That and he would, 80%
of the time, prefer to sit and read than play actively. He takes after his
father :)
From my pediatrician and my research on his situation I followed the advice
of giving him things to do, to sit down with him and let him figure things
out, create things, read, etc, give him the extra stimulation he needs. And
as for his intensity, that will always be there. That extra sensitivity to
anything, and he just needs guidance on how to ground himself and come back
after something sets him off, and hopefully he'll learn as he grows to
control himself better. Now I just hold him a lot, as he screams and kicks,
until the wave wears out and he is finally calm and thankful I was there to
hold him through a scary situation.
-Kristi
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
and
pounding? A three year old boy's agression isn't likely to be satisfied by
worksheets.
If you haven't already looked into Howard Gardner's _Frames of Mind,_ I
think
it would be full of great ideas for your situation.
I will look into that book, thank you. He does get a lot of rough play
though. Wrestling with daddy, running and climbing at the park (daily),
crashing cars at home, dancing to music daily (until he collapses from
exhaustion! LOL), stuff like that. His meltdowns aren't really forms of
aggression, I don't think. I just don't think he knows how to get himself
back under control after he starts going downhill. That and he would, 80%
of the time, prefer to sit and read than play actively. He takes after his
father :)
From my pediatrician and my research on his situation I followed the advice
of giving him things to do, to sit down with him and let him figure things
out, create things, read, etc, give him the extra stimulation he needs. And
as for his intensity, that will always be there. That extra sensitivity to
anything, and he just needs guidance on how to ground himself and come back
after something sets him off, and hopefully he'll learn as he grows to
control himself better. Now I just hold him a lot, as he screams and kicks,
until the wave wears out and he is finally calm and thankful I was there to
hold him through a scary situation.
-Kristi
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/12/01 9:18:28 AM, mom@... writes:
<< That extra sensitivity to
anything, and he just needs guidance on how to ground himself and come back
after something sets him off, and hopefully he'll learn as he grows to
control himself better. >>
My oldest is that way, and we taught him early on (maybe not as early as
three, though) to breathe deeply, hold it, let it out, breathe deeply... (and
that's often as much as it takes--two really deep breaths.
My kids will say to each other and to me sometimes "breathe."
Stubbed toe? "Breathe."
Dropped a bowl of food and it's splattered all over the floor and cabinets
and refrigerator? "Breathe."
Some things cause/create the breathing which bring the oxygen to settle the
biochemical storm. Laughing. Singing. For some kids, maybe just sitting
still, or having mom hold them and breathe slowly herself.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< That extra sensitivity to
anything, and he just needs guidance on how to ground himself and come back
after something sets him off, and hopefully he'll learn as he grows to
control himself better. >>
My oldest is that way, and we taught him early on (maybe not as early as
three, though) to breathe deeply, hold it, let it out, breathe deeply... (and
that's often as much as it takes--two really deep breaths.
My kids will say to each other and to me sometimes "breathe."
Stubbed toe? "Breathe."
Dropped a bowl of food and it's splattered all over the floor and cabinets
and refrigerator? "Breathe."
Some things cause/create the breathing which bring the oxygen to settle the
biochemical storm. Laughing. Singing. For some kids, maybe just sitting
still, or having mom hold them and breathe slowly herself.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
jefferson academy
How do unschoolers in states that require testing
handle that? Our state doesn't require any - but I'm
new to homeschooling and very new to this idea of
unschooling and worry that now will be the time some
sort of national (or even state) test will become
required. And from what I understand it is not
uncommon for many children to not reach readiness for
certain skills in the time frame demanded by pubic
schools. (For example reading by 6 or 7 years old -
or doing long division by 8 or 9 years old) What
happens then?
(By the way I believe public schooling killed much
talent in my first three children. All started school
as (poor spellers but) very talented authors. All won
awards for stories they wrote in first and second
grade - yet by 4th grade they hated anything to do
with writing - refused to read - and got failing or
near failing grades in Language Arts!)
Thanks in advance for anything you can tell me about
this testing scenario that will put my mind at ease!
Michele
__________________________________________________
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Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
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handle that? Our state doesn't require any - but I'm
new to homeschooling and very new to this idea of
unschooling and worry that now will be the time some
sort of national (or even state) test will become
required. And from what I understand it is not
uncommon for many children to not reach readiness for
certain skills in the time frame demanded by pubic
schools. (For example reading by 6 or 7 years old -
or doing long division by 8 or 9 years old) What
happens then?
(By the way I believe public schooling killed much
talent in my first three children. All started school
as (poor spellers but) very talented authors. All won
awards for stories they wrote in first and second
grade - yet by 4th grade they hated anything to do
with writing - refused to read - and got failing or
near failing grades in Language Arts!)
Thanks in advance for anything you can tell me about
this testing scenario that will put my mind at ease!
Michele
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
[email protected]
Of the states that do require testing, only a few check the scores and I
think only a couple have any provision for doing anything about low scores.
If a nationwide standardized test comes along some unschoolers will score
low. More will score high. Even more, I bet, will ditch out altogether and
be sick/out of town/absent.
Sandra
think only a couple have any provision for doing anything about low scores.
If a nationwide standardized test comes along some unschoolers will score
low. More will score high. Even more, I bet, will ditch out altogether and
be sick/out of town/absent.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 08/12/2001 4:16:02 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
jeffersonacademy@... writes:
Holy hell, that's what!
The testers can take their number 2 pencils and . . . well, you get the idea.
As for what others do in other states, I don't know.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jeffersonacademy@... writes:
> How do unschoolers in states that require testingWhat happens then? What happens then??!!
> handle that? Our state doesn't require any - but I'm
> new to homeschooling and very new to this idea of
> unschooling and worry that now will be the time some
> sort of national (or even state) test will become
> required. And from what I understand it is not
> uncommon for many children to not reach readiness for
> certain skills in the time frame demanded by pubic
> schools. (For example reading by 6 or 7 years old -
> or doing long division by 8 or 9 years old) What
> happens then?
>
Holy hell, that's what!
The testers can take their number 2 pencils and . . . well, you get the idea.
As for what others do in other states, I don't know.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A
NC does require testing. I tested my son for the first time last year.
He is 8...I got the kindergardentest, administered it myself (took about 20 min)
and sent it back. When the "results" came I through them in the file so that if
anyone ever asked to see them I would have them. I have no idea what it said. I
don't care either.
It was quite an eye-opener though....(giving the test I mean) There was so much
room for misunderstanding. I can just see how useless those things are.
So, that's what I do....for what it's worth. :)
Ann
He is 8...I got the kindergardentest, administered it myself (took about 20 min)
and sent it back. When the "results" came I through them in the file so that if
anyone ever asked to see them I would have them. I have no idea what it said. I
don't care either.
It was quite an eye-opener though....(giving the test I mean) There was so much
room for misunderstanding. I can just see how useless those things are.
So, that's what I do....for what it's worth. :)
Ann
>
>
> > How do unschoolers in states that require testing
> > handle that?