Re: expectations for household work
[email protected]
something different:
as you all know all probably too well, running a household requires a lot of
work, and it may not be the kind of work that you are passionate about! how
have you chosen a standard for upkeep, divided the chores, and keep children
to task?
i find myself after the kids to do the basics even tho it seems there was a
time it was habit. i know my expectations are as they would be for another
adult which i constantly need to adjust for children. but i think my
expectations (when adjusted) are not too high for their ages... eg: my
almost 10yo dd is expected to make her bed, be dressed including hygeine, and
pickup assigned areas upstairs before coming down for breakfast (unless we
have all slept in, in which case we come and eat before pickup.) after
meals, everyone is expected to help put away the stuff from meals... and
then there are the other various and sundry other feeding of animals,
emptying dw, etc.
i may just be tired of the reminding, (we havent changed responsibilites for
over a year) it seems this time last year i was weary of the same thing now
that i recollect... i know that what is important to me (some semblance of
order and livability standards in the household) is not easily important to
them, and only becomes so with some sort of motivation. either they come to
embrace the same standards bc they see it is important to me or they want it
too (maybe they are older) or they are motivatied by an artificial end like a
reward or withdrawal of priveledge, etc.
kids are: dd almost 10, dd 7, ds 3, ds 14mos. as i type this i am reminded
that the little ones are unraveling much of the order, but if you have
7-8-9-10 yr olds, would you share what you do with them/ or thoughts on this?
erin
as you all know all probably too well, running a household requires a lot of
work, and it may not be the kind of work that you are passionate about! how
have you chosen a standard for upkeep, divided the chores, and keep children
to task?
i find myself after the kids to do the basics even tho it seems there was a
time it was habit. i know my expectations are as they would be for another
adult which i constantly need to adjust for children. but i think my
expectations (when adjusted) are not too high for their ages... eg: my
almost 10yo dd is expected to make her bed, be dressed including hygeine, and
pickup assigned areas upstairs before coming down for breakfast (unless we
have all slept in, in which case we come and eat before pickup.) after
meals, everyone is expected to help put away the stuff from meals... and
then there are the other various and sundry other feeding of animals,
emptying dw, etc.
i may just be tired of the reminding, (we havent changed responsibilites for
over a year) it seems this time last year i was weary of the same thing now
that i recollect... i know that what is important to me (some semblance of
order and livability standards in the household) is not easily important to
them, and only becomes so with some sort of motivation. either they come to
embrace the same standards bc they see it is important to me or they want it
too (maybe they are older) or they are motivatied by an artificial end like a
reward or withdrawal of priveledge, etc.
kids are: dd almost 10, dd 7, ds 3, ds 14mos. as i type this i am reminded
that the little ones are unraveling much of the order, but if you have
7-8-9-10 yr olds, would you share what you do with them/ or thoughts on this?
erin
Lisa Fuller
Have you sat down and talked with them about the standards of living? Do they
have input in the chores they do? Are you flexible? Why does the bed have to be
made (all you do is mess it up again:)? Chores and other aspects of housekeeping
should be a part of unschooling and should be treated in similar ways. Keeping
the house, and learning how to keep a house, are important skills. But, if kids
don't see a reason to do it or are not interested in it, why would they choose to
do it? How is learning to make your bed or clean the bathroom different from
learning to read or do math?
Lisa F.
MORELFAM@... wrote:
have input in the chores they do? Are you flexible? Why does the bed have to be
made (all you do is mess it up again:)? Chores and other aspects of housekeeping
should be a part of unschooling and should be treated in similar ways. Keeping
the house, and learning how to keep a house, are important skills. But, if kids
don't see a reason to do it or are not interested in it, why would they choose to
do it? How is learning to make your bed or clean the bathroom different from
learning to read or do math?
Lisa F.
MORELFAM@... wrote:
> From: MORELFAM@...
>
> something different:
> as you all know all probably too well, running a household requires a lot of
> work, and it may not be the kind of work that you are passionate about! how
> have you chosen a standard for upkeep, divided the chores, and keep children
> to task?
>
> i find myself after the kids to do the basics even tho it seems there was a
> time it was habit. i know my expectations are as they would be for another
> adult which i constantly need to adjust for children. but i think my
> expectations (when adjusted) are not too high for their ages... eg: my
> almost 10yo dd is expected to make her bed, be dressed including hygeine, and
> pickup assigned areas upstairs before coming down for breakfast (unless we
> have all slept in, in which case we come and eat before pickup.) after
> meals, everyone is expected to help put away the stuff from meals... and
> then there are the other various and sundry other feeding of animals,
> emptying dw, etc.
>
> i may just be tired of the reminding, (we havent changed responsibilites for
> over a year) it seems this time last year i was weary of the same thing now
> that i recollect... i know that what is important to me (some semblance of
> order and livability standards in the household) is not easily important to
> them, and only becomes so with some sort of motivation. either they come to
> embrace the same standards bc they see it is important to me or they want it
> too (maybe they are older) or they are motivatied by an artificial end like a
> reward or withdrawal of priveledge, etc.
>
> kids are: dd almost 10, dd 7, ds 3, ds 14mos. as i type this i am reminded
> that the little ones are unraveling much of the order, but if you have
> 7-8-9-10 yr olds, would you share what you do with them/ or thoughts on this?
>
>
> erin
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/25/99 4:26:31 PM, eifuller@... writes:
<< Keeping
the house, and learning how to keep a house, are important skills. But, if
kids
don't see a reason to do it or are not interested in it, why would they
choose to
do it? How is learning to make your bed or clean the bathroom different from
learning to read or do math?
Lisa F. >>
hi lisa! thnx for your thoughts! your quote above is exactly my point, and
the reason i wanted to ask an unschooling list how it is handled in your
households? bc as i said, i realize that kids wont choose to do it w/o some
sort of motivation... such as seeing the value in it for themselves, bc they
want to pls me, or something??? i still am wondering... also, talking with
them about it is booorrring to them... & i hesitate to bring it up now since
i am mulling over different attitudes about it...
<Chores and other aspects of housekeeping
should be a part of unschooling and should be treated in similar ways.> i am
a new enough unschooler to need examples here of how you mean. what have you
tried?
erin
<< Keeping
the house, and learning how to keep a house, are important skills. But, if
kids
don't see a reason to do it or are not interested in it, why would they
choose to
do it? How is learning to make your bed or clean the bathroom different from
learning to read or do math?
Lisa F. >>
hi lisa! thnx for your thoughts! your quote above is exactly my point, and
the reason i wanted to ask an unschooling list how it is handled in your
households? bc as i said, i realize that kids wont choose to do it w/o some
sort of motivation... such as seeing the value in it for themselves, bc they
want to pls me, or something??? i still am wondering... also, talking with
them about it is booorrring to them... & i hesitate to bring it up now since
i am mulling over different attitudes about it...
<Chores and other aspects of housekeeping
should be a part of unschooling and should be treated in similar ways.> i am
a new enough unschooler to need examples here of how you mean. what have you
tried?
erin
Lisa Fuller
First off, my kids are young (26 mos, 5 mos). Second, we don't call them chores:)
and we don't do them on a schedule or even very regularly. Beds don't have to be
made, toys don't have to be put away before we leave, etc. I also involve my
oldest in all the chores that are done. She sits at the sink when washing dishes
and 'helps' by rinsing or drying or handing dishes to me. When we clean the
bathroom, I scrub the tub and shes cleans the toilet with vinegar and baking soda
(it fizzes so its fun) and a brush. When I vaccuum she does also with her own
vaccuum and uses mine when I'm finished. This is just part of our day and is
never something that 'needs' to be done. If dd doesn't feel like participating,
then she doesn't (and the 'chore' won't necessarily get done either since we
usually start doing something else:), but this rarely happens (so far, remember
she's young:). Sometimes I don't feel like cleaning the bathroom when she wants
to, so we don't do it, or she does it by herself.
We also keep an open discussion about what we are doing. As adults, there are
things that have to be done. When I'm writing my lesson plans for class, or doing
research for a paper that's due, I talk with Fiona about why it has to be done
right then and why I can't play with her at the moment. More often than not,
though, I will still take a break and play for a few minutes before resuming my
work.
Our house is usually untidy. Fiona seems to reach a point where she needs to pick
up her toys and then will do it. Sometimes, dh or I reach that point first and do
it, while trying to involve her. We have the rule whoever notices it takes care
of it. We don't see any of it as a 'chore' though, just another thing to do
together. What we have found so far is that Fiona is taking on more and more
responsibility as we go. She is noticing when things are dirty and asks to clean
them or even starts on her own (ie the toilet, she could do that every day:) This
has also helped dh and I since we no longer say things like "well, I cooked so
its your turn to wash the dishes". Sometimes we don't even wash the dishes after
a meal and wait to do it the next day (or two or three days later if the mood
strikes). Not everyone can live this way, my mom hates it:) But as we have been
moving towards the unschooling way of thinking we have found that we continusly
evaluate things based on their importance in the moment, and more likely than not
washing dishes or cleaning the bathroom loses:)
Enjoy,
Lisa F.
MORELFAM@... wrote:
and we don't do them on a schedule or even very regularly. Beds don't have to be
made, toys don't have to be put away before we leave, etc. I also involve my
oldest in all the chores that are done. She sits at the sink when washing dishes
and 'helps' by rinsing or drying or handing dishes to me. When we clean the
bathroom, I scrub the tub and shes cleans the toilet with vinegar and baking soda
(it fizzes so its fun) and a brush. When I vaccuum she does also with her own
vaccuum and uses mine when I'm finished. This is just part of our day and is
never something that 'needs' to be done. If dd doesn't feel like participating,
then she doesn't (and the 'chore' won't necessarily get done either since we
usually start doing something else:), but this rarely happens (so far, remember
she's young:). Sometimes I don't feel like cleaning the bathroom when she wants
to, so we don't do it, or she does it by herself.
We also keep an open discussion about what we are doing. As adults, there are
things that have to be done. When I'm writing my lesson plans for class, or doing
research for a paper that's due, I talk with Fiona about why it has to be done
right then and why I can't play with her at the moment. More often than not,
though, I will still take a break and play for a few minutes before resuming my
work.
Our house is usually untidy. Fiona seems to reach a point where she needs to pick
up her toys and then will do it. Sometimes, dh or I reach that point first and do
it, while trying to involve her. We have the rule whoever notices it takes care
of it. We don't see any of it as a 'chore' though, just another thing to do
together. What we have found so far is that Fiona is taking on more and more
responsibility as we go. She is noticing when things are dirty and asks to clean
them or even starts on her own (ie the toilet, she could do that every day:) This
has also helped dh and I since we no longer say things like "well, I cooked so
its your turn to wash the dishes". Sometimes we don't even wash the dishes after
a meal and wait to do it the next day (or two or three days later if the mood
strikes). Not everyone can live this way, my mom hates it:) But as we have been
moving towards the unschooling way of thinking we have found that we continusly
evaluate things based on their importance in the moment, and more likely than not
washing dishes or cleaning the bathroom loses:)
Enjoy,
Lisa F.
MORELFAM@... wrote:
> From: MORELFAM@...
>
> In a message dated 8/25/99 4:26:31 PM, eifuller@... writes:
>
> << Keeping
> the house, and learning how to keep a house, are important skills. But, if
> kids
> don't see a reason to do it or are not interested in it, why would they
> choose to
> do it? How is learning to make your bed or clean the bathroom different from
> learning to read or do math?
>
> Lisa F. >>
>
> hi lisa! thnx for your thoughts! your quote above is exactly my point, and
> the reason i wanted to ask an unschooling list how it is handled in your
> households? bc as i said, i realize that kids wont choose to do it w/o some
> sort of motivation... such as seeing the value in it for themselves, bc they
> want to pls me, or something??? i still am wondering... also, talking with
> them about it is booorrring to them... & i hesitate to bring it up now since
> i am mulling over different attitudes about it...
>
> <Chores and other aspects of housekeeping
> should be a part of unschooling and should be treated in similar ways.> i am
> a new enough unschooler to need examples here of how you mean. what have you
> tried?
> erin
>
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> ONElist announces "FRIENDS & FAMILY!"
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[email protected]
In a message dated 08/27/1999 6:18:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MORELFAM@... writes:
<< thnx ........ bc ...... w/o ..... bc ....... pls ...... &........ >>
ROFLOL!!!! Erin, you definitely have an aptitude for abbreviations!!!!!
Have you ever considered a career writing classified ads????? Seriously, I
LOVE reading your posts and I hope you aren't upset by my joking!!
Sam
MORELFAM@... writes:
<< thnx ........ bc ...... w/o ..... bc ....... pls ...... &........ >>
ROFLOL!!!! Erin, you definitely have an aptitude for abbreviations!!!!!
Have you ever considered a career writing classified ads????? Seriously, I
LOVE reading your posts and I hope you aren't upset by my joking!!
Sam
[email protected]
Lisa,
thanks for going into such detail, it really helps to imagine others' ideas.
actually your handling of things sounds quite similar to the way we did it
here when ours were little. explaining and getting everyone's input has
always been a big part of our dynamics.
<we have found that we continuously
evaluate things based on their importance in the moment,>
this too is similar to the way i handle things. some nites the dishes dont
get done and i just do final check to see the perishables are all put away bc
i and everyone else just want to curl up together and choose to read or sleep!
it seems that once one gets into older and more children, there is more of a
need for "management" or overlying structure, though there can be CHOICES
within that. when we just had one and then two little ones, we didnt find a
desire or need for bedtimes, but later it worked out best to have them.
(LOOOVE them!) and when the olders were little, they followed and helped with
chores, learning as they went (much like yours!)-- but now have to be
responsible for doing some themselves bc it is important/helpful to the
household. also, another example is that we too didnt do things with much
regularity (or probably call them chores either!) then, but now find it is
really necc. unless we just want to be putting out fires.
i liked most what you said to someone else: (in your next post) <unschooling
is about choices.> i strive to communicate that to my older ones (9 & 7) bc
i dont want them to feel they have to do things without knowing why. i think
that is what caused me to become passive in so much of my learning and
activity in childhood-- i did not often feel that i had much control over how
things played out, so i discontinued caring and just went along... the 9 &
7yo's esp are very helpful, and they dont see it as too much work, i guess to
clarify, it is the timing thing that causes the reminding... i am ready for
it to be done, they are busy with other things. life goes on... :)
erin
thanks for going into such detail, it really helps to imagine others' ideas.
actually your handling of things sounds quite similar to the way we did it
here when ours were little. explaining and getting everyone's input has
always been a big part of our dynamics.
<we have found that we continuously
evaluate things based on their importance in the moment,>
this too is similar to the way i handle things. some nites the dishes dont
get done and i just do final check to see the perishables are all put away bc
i and everyone else just want to curl up together and choose to read or sleep!
it seems that once one gets into older and more children, there is more of a
need for "management" or overlying structure, though there can be CHOICES
within that. when we just had one and then two little ones, we didnt find a
desire or need for bedtimes, but later it worked out best to have them.
(LOOOVE them!) and when the olders were little, they followed and helped with
chores, learning as they went (much like yours!)-- but now have to be
responsible for doing some themselves bc it is important/helpful to the
household. also, another example is that we too didnt do things with much
regularity (or probably call them chores either!) then, but now find it is
really necc. unless we just want to be putting out fires.
i liked most what you said to someone else: (in your next post) <unschooling
is about choices.> i strive to communicate that to my older ones (9 & 7) bc
i dont want them to feel they have to do things without knowing why. i think
that is what caused me to become passive in so much of my learning and
activity in childhood-- i did not often feel that i had much control over how
things played out, so i discontinued caring and just went along... the 9 &
7yo's esp are very helpful, and they dont see it as too much work, i guess to
clarify, it is the timing thing that causes the reminding... i am ready for
it to be done, they are busy with other things. life goes on... :)
erin