Re: Changing others' minds was: Returning to public school
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/22/99 4:59:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MORELFAM@...
writes:
She has a 3+-year-old girl and when she turns 4 she'll "graduate" from her
co-op daycare (she's only there part of one day a week - either my BIL or SIL
is home all the other times). So now they're starting to think of
pre-school. They know I work in homeschooling and that we'll be unschooling
our children, though they don't have a clear idea yet of what unschooling
means. Anyway, previously whenever homeschooling came up they both always
said, oh, we could never do that and made positive comments about ps.
Yesterday, for the first time, I my SIL said, "I hate school." I was amazed.
I think as it gets closer to really sending her daughter she's having more
negative thoughts about it. We all talked about it for awhile yesterday.
Actually, DH did most of the talking. He's much more into trying to convince
them than I am. (I think it would be great for them to unschool but I think
they need to feel ready, not be pushed.) Anyway, most of their arguments
were pretty feeble, things like, "How would she learn a foreign language?"
Eventually, it came down to what I think is the real reason for my SIL - she
feels like she would be giving up her life and she doesn't want to do that.
She's tired of being home with her daughter a lot and wants time where she
isn't there. Much to my surprise, my BIL suggested that they could share -
he being there two days and she the other two and both for three. I was
amazed. But she didn't really respond to that suggestion.
At this point they plan to put her into ps and "see what happens." They're
pretty protective, so I wonder how it will fall out. Unfortunately, not
having children yet, they can't be dazzled by our children's awesome success
as unschoolers. ;-)
Elizabeth
writes:
> but isharing
> remind myself that i cannot change them til they are fed up with their
> situation/ ready for change. then they will be asking... each of us
>most
> with others who are interested and drawn to our style will share in the
>On this note, I just had an interesting conversation with my SIL yesterday.
> natural way. people are more impressed with our actions than our words,
> right?
She has a 3+-year-old girl and when she turns 4 she'll "graduate" from her
co-op daycare (she's only there part of one day a week - either my BIL or SIL
is home all the other times). So now they're starting to think of
pre-school. They know I work in homeschooling and that we'll be unschooling
our children, though they don't have a clear idea yet of what unschooling
means. Anyway, previously whenever homeschooling came up they both always
said, oh, we could never do that and made positive comments about ps.
Yesterday, for the first time, I my SIL said, "I hate school." I was amazed.
I think as it gets closer to really sending her daughter she's having more
negative thoughts about it. We all talked about it for awhile yesterday.
Actually, DH did most of the talking. He's much more into trying to convince
them than I am. (I think it would be great for them to unschool but I think
they need to feel ready, not be pushed.) Anyway, most of their arguments
were pretty feeble, things like, "How would she learn a foreign language?"
Eventually, it came down to what I think is the real reason for my SIL - she
feels like she would be giving up her life and she doesn't want to do that.
She's tired of being home with her daughter a lot and wants time where she
isn't there. Much to my surprise, my BIL suggested that they could share -
he being there two days and she the other two and both for three. I was
amazed. But she didn't really respond to that suggestion.
At this point they plan to put her into ps and "see what happens." They're
pretty protective, so I wonder how it will fall out. Unfortunately, not
having children yet, they can't be dazzled by our children's awesome success
as unschoolers. ;-)
Elizabeth
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/99 2:29:14 PM, Evalsquid@... writes:
<< they can't be dazzled by our children's awesome success
as unschoolers. ;-)
not the same as others who have been there-- having their own. your story
was a great example of those things that happen to us all the time. i tend
to agonize later on whether i should've said more, etc... thus the
encouragement to just keep on and let others be responsible for asking their
questions. each one teach one and good things will spread...
erin
<< they can't be dazzled by our children's awesome success
as unschoolers. ;-)
>>love this! its so true, no? if they are impressed it is in distanced way,
not the same as others who have been there-- having their own. your story
was a great example of those things that happen to us all the time. i tend
to agonize later on whether i should've said more, etc... thus the
encouragement to just keep on and let others be responsible for asking their
questions. each one teach one and good things will spread...
erin
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/99 2:29:18 PM EST, Evalsquid@... writes:
<< Eventually, it came down to what I think is the real reason for my SIL -
she
feels like she would be giving up her life and she doesn't want to do that.
WAS a mother. I've had a similar discussion with my sis-in-laws and it
shocked me that some people feel it's their right to be able to "unload"
their children on the schools. I truly hope that I will instill in my
children a sense of duty when it comes to family and move away from the
selfishness that seems so prevalent today (even if it is disguised as
financial need. You know," I need to send the kids to school so I can work").
Blessings. Lori in TX
<< Eventually, it came down to what I think is the real reason for my SIL -
she
feels like she would be giving up her life and she doesn't want to do that.
>>I wonder what makes that a consideration for some? I always felt that my life
WAS a mother. I've had a similar discussion with my sis-in-laws and it
shocked me that some people feel it's their right to be able to "unload"
their children on the schools. I truly hope that I will instill in my
children a sense of duty when it comes to family and move away from the
selfishness that seems so prevalent today (even if it is disguised as
financial need. You know," I need to send the kids to school so I can work").
Blessings. Lori in TX
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/99 3:13:57 PM !!!First Boot!!!, RRAINENJ@...
writes:
<< From: RRAINENJ@...
In a message dated 8/23/99 2:29:18 PM EST, Evalsquid@... writes:
<< Eventually, it came down to what I think is the real reason for my SIL -
she
feels like she would be giving up her life and she doesn't want to do that.
life
WAS a mother. I've had a similar discussion with my sis-in-laws and it
shocked me that some people feel it's their right to be able to "unload"
their children on the schools. I truly hope that I will instill in my
children a sense of duty when it comes to family and move away from the
selfishness that seems so prevalent today (even if it is disguised as
financial need. You know," I need to send the kids to school so I can work").
Blessings. Lori in TX
like seeing it used as a wedge between mothers who are all probably just
trying to do their best -- as they perceive it and as they are able. I'm not
trying to attack you personally Lori, or anyone else who agrees with you, I
just think it is unnecessary to perpetuate this divisive issue between
mothers.
Nance
writes:
<< From: RRAINENJ@...
In a message dated 8/23/99 2:29:18 PM EST, Evalsquid@... writes:
<< Eventually, it came down to what I think is the real reason for my SIL -
she
feels like she would be giving up her life and she doesn't want to do that.
>>I wonder what makes that a consideration for some? I always felt that my
life
WAS a mother. I've had a similar discussion with my sis-in-laws and it
shocked me that some people feel it's their right to be able to "unload"
their children on the schools. I truly hope that I will instill in my
children a sense of duty when it comes to family and move away from the
selfishness that seems so prevalent today (even if it is disguised as
financial need. You know," I need to send the kids to school so I can work").
Blessings. Lori in TX
>>As much as I love being a SAHM, I would not force it on anyone else and don't
like seeing it used as a wedge between mothers who are all probably just
trying to do their best -- as they perceive it and as they are able. I'm not
trying to attack you personally Lori, or anyone else who agrees with you, I
just think it is unnecessary to perpetuate this divisive issue between
mothers.
Nance
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/99 7:59:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RRAINENJ@...
writes:
disguise it. She knows they could work it out. She admits that it's
selfish. And they have pretty much avoided day-care, which is good (and much
more than some people I know have done).
One argument that I've heard is the notion that mothers think their children
(especially daughters) will have a better concept of them (the mother) and
women in general if they're in a career instead of a SAHM. When I was
discussing this with a friend of mine (who is SAH but doesn't HS) she laughed
and said her daughter has a friend whose mother is some important business
woman and hence is always gone on business trips, etc. This woman's daughter
has no real concept of what her mother does, she just hates that she's gone
so much. When my friend asked her daughter if she would like her to work,
her daughter said, "Well, it would be neat if you worked at a pizza place so
you could bring home pizza for dinner every night."
;-);-);-);-)
I think as adults it's easy to forget what the world is like through a
child's eyes and what's important to them.
Elizabeth
writes:
> I wonder what makes that a consideration for some? I always felt that mylife
>work").
> WAS a mother. I've had a similar discussion with my sis-in-laws and it
> shocked me that some people feel it's their right to be able to "unload"
> their children on the schools. I truly hope that I will instill in my
> children a sense of duty when it comes to family and move away from the
> selfishness that seems so prevalent today (even if it is disguised as
> financial need. You know," I need to send the kids to school so I can
>I think it's interesting too. To give my SIL some credit, she doesn't try to
disguise it. She knows they could work it out. She admits that it's
selfish. And they have pretty much avoided day-care, which is good (and much
more than some people I know have done).
One argument that I've heard is the notion that mothers think their children
(especially daughters) will have a better concept of them (the mother) and
women in general if they're in a career instead of a SAHM. When I was
discussing this with a friend of mine (who is SAH but doesn't HS) she laughed
and said her daughter has a friend whose mother is some important business
woman and hence is always gone on business trips, etc. This woman's daughter
has no real concept of what her mother does, she just hates that she's gone
so much. When my friend asked her daughter if she would like her to work,
her daughter said, "Well, it would be neat if you worked at a pizza place so
you could bring home pizza for dinner every night."
;-);-);-);-)
I think as adults it's easy to forget what the world is like through a
child's eyes and what's important to them.
Elizabeth
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/99 9:26:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Marbleface@... writes:
it. In fact, I rarely argue with anyone about anything (except DH of
course). When they ask questions about HS or US I answer and I tell them
some of the philosophy behind it. I think my SIL is a good mother, even if
she does some things differently than I would.
Elizabeth
Marbleface@... writes:
> As much as I love being a SAHM, I would not force it on anyone else anddon't
>I
> like seeing it used as a wedge between mothers who are all probably just
> trying to do their best -- as they perceive it and as they are able. I'm
> not
> trying to attack you personally Lori, or anyone else who agrees with you,
> just think it is unnecessary to perpetuate this divisive issue betweenJust to be clear on my post (and my feelings) I never argue with my SIL about
> mothers.
it. In fact, I rarely argue with anyone about anything (except DH of
course). When they ask questions about HS or US I answer and I tell them
some of the philosophy behind it. I think my SIL is a good mother, even if
she does some things differently than I would.
Elizabeth
[email protected]
I was just wondering at what point did our feelings towards mothering change?
It is a fairly recent thing, I feel. Just voicing what I see, certainly not
to upset anyone!
Blessings, Lori in TX
It is a fairly recent thing, I feel. Just voicing what I see, certainly not
to upset anyone!
Blessings, Lori in TX
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/25/99 6:45:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RRAINENJ@...
writes:
thing. I think the rich have always had nannies, nurses, tutors,
governesses, etc. I think what's changed is economics. More people can
afford to have others care for their children, so more people do.
Were there, statistically, more SAHMs in, say, the 50s? Almost definitely.
Did that mean they were happy there or that they were good mothers? I don't
think so. I prefer things now when women have more of a choice as to whether
they will be working moms or SAHMs. I've heard too many stories about angry,
bitter women addicted to alcohol/valium/whatever who were physically with
their children but had no good relationship with them whatsoever. I guess I
just don't see this as better than school or day care. A SAHM who chooses to
do so is great. One who doesn't, well, that makes me uncomfortable. (And
I'm not saying you have to be a born SAHM - you can look at it as a necessary
sacrifice and still be great at it. But it still has to be a choice.)
I guess I'm saying that choosing to do the right thing is much better than
being forced to do the right thing. And that choosing to do the "wrong" or
"lesser" thing is also better than being forced to do the "right" thing.
That's partly why I'm attracted to unschooling in the first place.
Elizabeth
writes:
> I was just wondering at what point did our feelings towards motheringchange?
>not
> It is a fairly recent thing, I feel. Just voicing what I see, certainly
> to upset anyone!I don't have statistics or anything, but I'm not so sure it is a recent
thing. I think the rich have always had nannies, nurses, tutors,
governesses, etc. I think what's changed is economics. More people can
afford to have others care for their children, so more people do.
Were there, statistically, more SAHMs in, say, the 50s? Almost definitely.
Did that mean they were happy there or that they were good mothers? I don't
think so. I prefer things now when women have more of a choice as to whether
they will be working moms or SAHMs. I've heard too many stories about angry,
bitter women addicted to alcohol/valium/whatever who were physically with
their children but had no good relationship with them whatsoever. I guess I
just don't see this as better than school or day care. A SAHM who chooses to
do so is great. One who doesn't, well, that makes me uncomfortable. (And
I'm not saying you have to be a born SAHM - you can look at it as a necessary
sacrifice and still be great at it. But it still has to be a choice.)
I guess I'm saying that choosing to do the right thing is much better than
being forced to do the right thing. And that choosing to do the "wrong" or
"lesser" thing is also better than being forced to do the "right" thing.
That's partly why I'm attracted to unschooling in the first place.
Elizabeth
mrstar
<<<I was just wondering at what point did our feelings towards mothering
change?
It is a fairly recent thing, I feel. Just voicing what I see, certainly not
to upset anyone!
Blessings, Lori in TX>>>
Our feelings, as a nation, toward motherhood changed when our feelings about
what 'family' 'husband' and 'wife' mean changed. The whole women's
suffrage movement and subsequently the women's liberation movement came
about because somewhere along the line people a) stopped believing what the
Bible had to say about families and the role of men and women; b) women
started viewing their roles as inferior (even though they had the better end
of the deal imho). I am sure plenty of people won't agree with me but I do
believe that God had the roles of men and women perfectly laid out and only
our own selfishness has changed those roles. The change in our attitude
toward mothering isn't new, it was a long time coming, it has just reached a
point now that it is unrecognizable in comparison to it's original form.
Mary in Idaho (having invested in flame retardant clothes and prepared for
the onslaught)
change?
It is a fairly recent thing, I feel. Just voicing what I see, certainly not
to upset anyone!
Blessings, Lori in TX>>>
Our feelings, as a nation, toward motherhood changed when our feelings about
what 'family' 'husband' and 'wife' mean changed. The whole women's
suffrage movement and subsequently the women's liberation movement came
about because somewhere along the line people a) stopped believing what the
Bible had to say about families and the role of men and women; b) women
started viewing their roles as inferior (even though they had the better end
of the deal imho). I am sure plenty of people won't agree with me but I do
believe that God had the roles of men and women perfectly laid out and only
our own selfishness has changed those roles. The change in our attitude
toward mothering isn't new, it was a long time coming, it has just reached a
point now that it is unrecognizable in comparison to it's original form.
Mary in Idaho (having invested in flame retardant clothes and prepared for
the onslaught)