Dick, Jane, Spot and Puff Guilty of Situational Ethics and Character Decay
[email protected]
I received this yesterday from a friend's friend. Although she lives in
Albuquerque, we've never met! <g> She's close friends with a family I know
well in Bonfield, Ontario. I find that really amusing, but I'm glad to be
one of her e-mail pals, and she's a really great writer.
I asked her permission to send this to this list, and she wrote <<Share all
you want. I knew you are a home schooler who doesn't want to marry off her 12
year old to a patriarch. That is why I e-mailed you. >>
All below this line is by Sharon Karpinski, of Albuquerque, who's not a
homeschooler but who is a fine writer and home-philosopher of the highest
nature <bwg>:
--------------------------------------------
Last week I found six Elsie Dinsmore books at a store off Central Avenue. I
immediately bought all that weren't duplicates to mine even though I paid
$1. apiece for the last ones I laid hands on (in Washburn, Wisconsin 15
years ago) and these had escalated to $14. "You were lucky to get so
many," the bookstore owner said. " These just came in. They are very
popular. They just fly off the shelves once I put them on my mailing
lists."
I was amazed since, for many years, I was the only person I knew who was
intimately acquainted with Elsie---or even acquainted at all. My
grandmother, a huge fan in her youth (we are now back to around 1906) had
read every single Elsie book as a child. Since no one in my family ever
threw out a book, I'd read several a good fifty years after they'd gone out
of print. Curiosity piqued, I went to the Net to find 2,110 entries for
Elsie. I discovered, to my horror, that Elsie is being pushed by Christian
Fundamentalists as achild,
exemplifies the idea that character counts in the face of tribulation. The
books accurately picture 19th century life." It turns out that the
Fundamentalist press has even reprinted the first four Elsie books. The
first is now titled Elsie, the Endless Wait (this is when she is pilloried
by her cousins while longing for her absent father). There is even a line
of Elsie dolls illustrating pertinent moments in the stories.
A bit of literary background: The Elsie Dinsmore series, written by Martha
Finlay) was quite possibly the first set of "girls" books. The Dodd Company
(before Meade came along) published the first story in 1868. This antedates
even Little Women though Louisa was a far better writer. In their day,
which lasted about fifty years, Elsie sold hugely. There were eventually
perhaps twenty five or thirty books and the story was terminated only
because Finlay died.
Despite the fact that I dote on Elsie, I am horrified that defenseless
Christian children are being assigned this book because---for those of you
that are not Elsie fans---Elsie is NOT Nancy Drew in a hoopskirt . A brief
summary:
Elsie is a Southern heiress who came to be because her father and mother
fell in love and eloped when he was seventeen and she was fifteen. Elsie's
mother died in childbirth at 16. Her father Horace, horrified, took off for
Europe leaving Elsie to be raised by Mrs. Murray, a Scotch-Presyterian
housekeeper and Chloe, Elsie's beloved black Mammie, who adores all white
folk but particularly adores Elsie. When Mrs. Murray kicks the bucket,
Elsie is sent to live with her paternal Grandfather and his second wife, a
social climber with a passel of awful children, most notably Enna, who
abuses Elsie daily. The story opens as Horace arrives home from Europe when
Elsie is eight. He cannot stand the sight of her, because she looks exactly
like his dead wife, and he cannot stand listening to her either, because
she is a devout Christian who won't play secular songs on Sunday or wear
new clothes to church because they would take her mind off worship in God's
house. Elsie falls off piano benches, passes into brain fever and suffers
other horrors too numerous to mention until such a time as she convinces
her father to be saved too. Now mind you, all of the above is not a world
that I embrace but although narrowly righteous, it's not deviant. What IS
horrifying about the assignment of these books to unknowing children is
that the following elements ALSO figure in Elsie's perennial saga:
1. Elsie owns three hundred slaves in her own name and, in book four, buys
several more. She always calls them "my people" as in," my possessions."
2. All the black people in the book (with the exception of Chloe's "unruly
buck husband" who is sold away from her) love the Massa and give thanks
practically daily for their servitude. Chloe's husband, in his old age,
sees the light of God and becomes a willing slave once more.
3. Elsie's relationship with her father is most peculiar, involving as it
does many mouth-to-mouth kisses and caresses. She strokes him regularly and
speaks of her adoration. He returns it. Every day she sits on his lap as he
instructs her. This goes on until she is fifteen or so. She does nothing
without his permission, because to obey one's parents is absolute filial
duty, even unto her 25th year.
4. After a brief interlude with a fortune hunter in Book 3 (a man that
Horace quickly dispatches to the state pen), Elsie marries her father's
best friend, who is 20 years older than she is and whom she has known since
she was eight.
It is for reasons 3 and 4 that I, while in high school, wrote an essay
called "Elsie Dinsmore Meets Sigmund Freud."
5. Elsie is not an inclusive Christian. In books one and two she is
threatened with convent school. She knows this is the end for her because
what the priests and nuns do in those places is unspeakable. Mrs. Murray,
her old housekeeper, told her all about it. At the very least she will be
locked away and tortured until she converts. Papists are condemned in
several of the following books too.
6. Anti-semitism crops up in Book 5, "Elsie's Children."
7. The KKK is a force for good, Cousin Enna becomes a Confederate spy and
the Dinsmore darkies (all of whom speak perfect Jim Crow and Zip Coon)
resist freedom, lingering into the 1890's as "servants" whose wages are
never mentioned.
8.Not to misrepresent things: Elsie is a model slaveowner. She forbids
flogging, substituting loss of privileges and imprisonment on bread and
water as punishments for failure to work. She lectures her New England
overseer about how one must allow for the indolent nature of the black folk
and arranges the services of a chaplain for "her people." Her children are
unfailingly thoughtful to their slave playmates, teaching them that when
they go to heaven, they will turn white like their masters.
9. Did I mention that Elsie, besides being a bigot, is an insufferable
prig? She suffers nervous prostrations and is given to dialogue like,
"Are you vexed with me, Papa?" Following this line, she frequently kneels
at his feet. Later, when she is a woman, Elsie says "Unhand me this
instant, sir!" and the like. Naturally, she is utterly beautiful and
worshipped by all.
I love Elsie---the way I love to study poisonous reptiles. As a role model
OR as history OR as as example of good English composition, Elsie is a
disaster. That she is now being touted as a Christian example to malleable
children indicates what the Fundamentalist Right may be all about, a
strange world of racial privilege, religious intolerance and child
marriage.
Our current president is supported by the religious right who consider him
one of their own. I worry. sk
Albuquerque, we've never met! <g> She's close friends with a family I know
well in Bonfield, Ontario. I find that really amusing, but I'm glad to be
one of her e-mail pals, and she's a really great writer.
I asked her permission to send this to this list, and she wrote <<Share all
you want. I knew you are a home schooler who doesn't want to marry off her 12
year old to a patriarch. That is why I e-mailed you. >>
All below this line is by Sharon Karpinski, of Albuquerque, who's not a
homeschooler but who is a fine writer and home-philosopher of the highest
nature <bwg>:
--------------------------------------------
Last week I found six Elsie Dinsmore books at a store off Central Avenue. I
immediately bought all that weren't duplicates to mine even though I paid
$1. apiece for the last ones I laid hands on (in Washburn, Wisconsin 15
years ago) and these had escalated to $14. "You were lucky to get so
many," the bookstore owner said. " These just came in. They are very
popular. They just fly off the shelves once I put them on my mailing
lists."
I was amazed since, for many years, I was the only person I knew who was
intimately acquainted with Elsie---or even acquainted at all. My
grandmother, a huge fan in her youth (we are now back to around 1906) had
read every single Elsie book as a child. Since no one in my family ever
threw out a book, I'd read several a good fifty years after they'd gone out
of print. Curiosity piqued, I went to the Net to find 2,110 entries for
Elsie. I discovered, to my horror, that Elsie is being pushed by Christian
Fundamentalists as achild,
exemplifies the idea that character counts in the face of tribulation. The
books accurately picture 19th century life." It turns out that the
Fundamentalist press has even reprinted the first four Elsie books. The
first is now titled Elsie, the Endless Wait (this is when she is pilloried
by her cousins while longing for her absent father). There is even a line
of Elsie dolls illustrating pertinent moments in the stories.
A bit of literary background: The Elsie Dinsmore series, written by Martha
Finlay) was quite possibly the first set of "girls" books. The Dodd Company
(before Meade came along) published the first story in 1868. This antedates
even Little Women though Louisa was a far better writer. In their day,
which lasted about fifty years, Elsie sold hugely. There were eventually
perhaps twenty five or thirty books and the story was terminated only
because Finlay died.
Despite the fact that I dote on Elsie, I am horrified that defenseless
Christian children are being assigned this book because---for those of you
that are not Elsie fans---Elsie is NOT Nancy Drew in a hoopskirt . A brief
summary:
Elsie is a Southern heiress who came to be because her father and mother
fell in love and eloped when he was seventeen and she was fifteen. Elsie's
mother died in childbirth at 16. Her father Horace, horrified, took off for
Europe leaving Elsie to be raised by Mrs. Murray, a Scotch-Presyterian
housekeeper and Chloe, Elsie's beloved black Mammie, who adores all white
folk but particularly adores Elsie. When Mrs. Murray kicks the bucket,
Elsie is sent to live with her paternal Grandfather and his second wife, a
social climber with a passel of awful children, most notably Enna, who
abuses Elsie daily. The story opens as Horace arrives home from Europe when
Elsie is eight. He cannot stand the sight of her, because she looks exactly
like his dead wife, and he cannot stand listening to her either, because
she is a devout Christian who won't play secular songs on Sunday or wear
new clothes to church because they would take her mind off worship in God's
house. Elsie falls off piano benches, passes into brain fever and suffers
other horrors too numerous to mention until such a time as she convinces
her father to be saved too. Now mind you, all of the above is not a world
that I embrace but although narrowly righteous, it's not deviant. What IS
horrifying about the assignment of these books to unknowing children is
that the following elements ALSO figure in Elsie's perennial saga:
1. Elsie owns three hundred slaves in her own name and, in book four, buys
several more. She always calls them "my people" as in," my possessions."
2. All the black people in the book (with the exception of Chloe's "unruly
buck husband" who is sold away from her) love the Massa and give thanks
practically daily for their servitude. Chloe's husband, in his old age,
sees the light of God and becomes a willing slave once more.
3. Elsie's relationship with her father is most peculiar, involving as it
does many mouth-to-mouth kisses and caresses. She strokes him regularly and
speaks of her adoration. He returns it. Every day she sits on his lap as he
instructs her. This goes on until she is fifteen or so. She does nothing
without his permission, because to obey one's parents is absolute filial
duty, even unto her 25th year.
4. After a brief interlude with a fortune hunter in Book 3 (a man that
Horace quickly dispatches to the state pen), Elsie marries her father's
best friend, who is 20 years older than she is and whom she has known since
she was eight.
It is for reasons 3 and 4 that I, while in high school, wrote an essay
called "Elsie Dinsmore Meets Sigmund Freud."
5. Elsie is not an inclusive Christian. In books one and two she is
threatened with convent school. She knows this is the end for her because
what the priests and nuns do in those places is unspeakable. Mrs. Murray,
her old housekeeper, told her all about it. At the very least she will be
locked away and tortured until she converts. Papists are condemned in
several of the following books too.
6. Anti-semitism crops up in Book 5, "Elsie's Children."
7. The KKK is a force for good, Cousin Enna becomes a Confederate spy and
the Dinsmore darkies (all of whom speak perfect Jim Crow and Zip Coon)
resist freedom, lingering into the 1890's as "servants" whose wages are
never mentioned.
8.Not to misrepresent things: Elsie is a model slaveowner. She forbids
flogging, substituting loss of privileges and imprisonment on bread and
water as punishments for failure to work. She lectures her New England
overseer about how one must allow for the indolent nature of the black folk
and arranges the services of a chaplain for "her people." Her children are
unfailingly thoughtful to their slave playmates, teaching them that when
they go to heaven, they will turn white like their masters.
9. Did I mention that Elsie, besides being a bigot, is an insufferable
prig? She suffers nervous prostrations and is given to dialogue like,
"Are you vexed with me, Papa?" Following this line, she frequently kneels
at his feet. Later, when she is a woman, Elsie says "Unhand me this
instant, sir!" and the like. Naturally, she is utterly beautiful and
worshipped by all.
I love Elsie---the way I love to study poisonous reptiles. As a role model
OR as history OR as as example of good English composition, Elsie is a
disaster. That she is now being touted as a Christian example to malleable
children indicates what the Fundamentalist Right may be all about, a
strange world of racial privilege, religious intolerance and child
marriage.
Our current president is supported by the religious right who consider him
one of their own. I worry. sk
kate mcdaniel
While I appreciate the history lesson, to say that all Christians are
embracing this book and enforcing it on their children is a bit of a
stretch. If you want to share propaganda regarding the Religious Right and
the current President of the United States is this the appropriate place to
do so??
I would be interested to know where the information came from that the
"Religious Right" were forcing this book,"Elsie" on malleable children. Is
this something the writer has observed first hand? Has she really
researched her information? Talked with parents that are using this material
to see in what manner the book is used for?
I personally have never heard of the Elsie books till this post. I am a
Christian. I support the current President of the United States. I am not
forcing my children to read "Elsie" books or to practice any of the
questionable behaviors that the writer has listed.
Kate
embracing this book and enforcing it on their children is a bit of a
stretch. If you want to share propaganda regarding the Religious Right and
the current President of the United States is this the appropriate place to
do so??
I would be interested to know where the information came from that the
"Religious Right" were forcing this book,"Elsie" on malleable children. Is
this something the writer has observed first hand? Has she really
researched her information? Talked with parents that are using this material
to see in what manner the book is used for?
I personally have never heard of the Elsie books till this post. I am a
Christian. I support the current President of the United States. I am not
forcing my children to read "Elsie" books or to practice any of the
questionable behaviors that the writer has listed.
Kate
On Wed, 23 May 2001 09:26:52 EDT, [email protected] wrote:
> I received this yesterday from a friend's friend. Although she lives in
> Albuquerque, we've never met! <g> She's close friends with a family I
know
> well in Bonfield, Ontario. I find that really amusing, but I'm glad to
be
> one of her e-mail pals, and she's a really great writer.
>
> I asked her permission to send this to this list, and she wrote <<Share
all
> you want. I knew you are a home schooler who doesn't want to marry off
her 12
> year old to a patriarch. That is why I e-mailed you. >>
>
> All below this line is by Sharon Karpinski, of Albuquerque, who's not a
> homeschooler but who is a fine writer and home-philosopher of the highest
> nature <bwg>:
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Last week I found six Elsie Dinsmore books at a store off Central Avenue.
I
>
> immediately bought all that weren't duplicates to mine even though I paid
>
> $1. apiece for the last ones I laid hands on (in Washburn, Wisconsin 15
>
> years ago) and these had escalated to $14. "You were lucky to get so
>
> many," the bookstore owner said. " These just came in. They are very
>
> popular. They just fly off the shelves once I put them on my mailing
>
> lists."
>
>
> I was amazed since, for many years, I was the only person I knew who was
>
> intimately acquainted with Elsie---or even acquainted at all. My
>
> grandmother, a huge fan in her youth (we are now back to around 1906)
had
>
> read every single Elsie book as a child. Since no one in my family ever
>
> threw out a book, I'd read several a good fifty years after they'd gone
out
>
> of print. Curiosity piqued, I went to the Net to find 2,110 entries for
>
> Elsie. I discovered, to my horror, that Elsie is being pushed by
Christian
>
> Fundamentalists as achild,
>
> exemplifies the idea that character counts in the face of tribulation.
The
>
> books accurately picture 19th century life." It turns out that the
>
> Fundamentalist press has even reprinted the first four Elsie books. The
>
> first is now titled Elsie, the Endless Wait (this is when she is
pilloried
>
> by her cousins while longing for her absent father). There is even a line
>
> of Elsie dolls illustrating pertinent moments in the stories.
>
>
> A bit of literary background: The Elsie Dinsmore series, written by
Martha
>
> Finlay) was quite possibly the first set of "girls" books. The Dodd
Company
>
> (before Meade came along) published the first story in 1868. This
antedates
>
> even Little Women though Louisa was a far better writer. In their day,
>
> which lasted about fifty years, Elsie sold hugely. There were eventually
>
> perhaps twenty five or thirty books and the story was terminated only
>
> because Finlay died.
>
>
> Despite the fact that I dote on Elsie, I am horrified that defenseless
>
> Christian children are being assigned this book because---for those of
you
>
> that are not Elsie fans---Elsie is NOT Nancy Drew in a hoopskirt . A
brief
>
> summary:
>
>
> Elsie is a Southern heiress who came to be because her father and mother
>
> fell in love and eloped when he was seventeen and she was fifteen.
Elsie's
>
> mother died in childbirth at 16. Her father Horace, horrified, took off
for
>
> Europe leaving Elsie to be raised by Mrs. Murray, a Scotch-Presyterian
>
> housekeeper and Chloe, Elsie's beloved black Mammie, who adores all white
>
> folk but particularly adores Elsie. When Mrs. Murray kicks the bucket,
>
> Elsie is sent to live with her paternal Grandfather and his second wife,
a
>
> social climber with a passel of awful children, most notably Enna, who
>
> abuses Elsie daily. The story opens as Horace arrives home from Europe
when
>
> Elsie is eight. He cannot stand the sight of her, because she looks
exactly
>
> like his dead wife, and he cannot stand listening to her either, because
>
> she is a devout Christian who won't play secular songs on Sunday or wear
>
> new clothes to church because they would take her mind off worship in
God's
>
> house. Elsie falls off piano benches, passes into brain fever and suffers
>
> other horrors too numerous to mention until such a time as she convinces
>
> her father to be saved too. Now mind you, all of the above is not a world
>
> that I embrace but although narrowly righteous, it's not deviant. What
IS
>
> horrifying about the assignment of these books to unknowing children is
>
> that the following elements ALSO figure in Elsie's perennial saga:
>
>
> 1. Elsie owns three hundred slaves in her own name and, in book four,
buys
>
> several more. She always calls them "my people" as in," my possessions."
>
>
> 2. All the black people in the book (with the exception of Chloe's
"unruly
>
> buck husband" who is sold away from her) love the Massa and give thanks
>
> practically daily for their servitude. Chloe's husband, in his old age,
>
> sees the light of God and becomes a willing slave once more.
>
>
> 3. Elsie's relationship with her father is most peculiar, involving as it
>
> does many mouth-to-mouth kisses and caresses. She strokes him regularly
and
>
> speaks of her adoration. He returns it. Every day she sits on his lap as
he
>
> instructs her. This goes on until she is fifteen or so. She does nothing
>
> without his permission, because to obey one's parents is absolute filial
>
> duty, even unto her 25th year.
>
>
> 4. After a brief interlude with a fortune hunter in Book 3 (a man that
>
> Horace quickly dispatches to the state pen), Elsie marries her father's
>
> best friend, who is 20 years older than she is and whom she has known
since
>
> she was eight.
>
>
> It is for reasons 3 and 4 that I, while in high school, wrote an essay
>
> called "Elsie Dinsmore Meets Sigmund Freud."
>
>
> 5. Elsie is not an inclusive Christian. In books one and two she is
>
> threatened with convent school. She knows this is the end for her because
>
> what the priests and nuns do in those places is unspeakable. Mrs. Murray,
>
> her old housekeeper, told her all about it. At the very least she will be
>
> locked away and tortured until she converts. Papists are condemned in
>
> several of the following books too.
>
>
> 6. Anti-semitism crops up in Book 5, "Elsie's Children."
>
>
> 7. The KKK is a force for good, Cousin Enna becomes a Confederate spy and
>
> the Dinsmore darkies (all of whom speak perfect Jim Crow and Zip Coon)
>
> resist freedom, lingering into the 1890's as "servants" whose wages are
>
> never mentioned.
>
>
> 8.Not to misrepresent things: Elsie is a model slaveowner. She forbids
>
> flogging, substituting loss of privileges and imprisonment on bread and
>
> water as punishments for failure to work. She lectures her New England
>
> overseer about how one must allow for the indolent nature of the black
folk
>
> and arranges the services of a chaplain for "her people." Her children
are
>
> unfailingly thoughtful to their slave playmates, teaching them that when
>
> they go to heaven, they will turn white like their masters.
>
>
> 9. Did I mention that Elsie, besides being a bigot, is an insufferable
>
> prig? She suffers nervous prostrations and is given to dialogue like,
>
> "Are you vexed with me, Papa?" Following this line, she frequently
kneels
>
> at his feet. Later, when she is a woman, Elsie says "Unhand me this
>
> instant, sir!" and the like. Naturally, she is utterly beautiful and
>
> worshipped by all.
>
>
> I love Elsie---the way I love to study poisonous reptiles. As a role
model
>
> OR as history OR as as example of good English composition, Elsie is a
>
> disaster. That she is now being touted as a Christian example to
malleable
>
> children indicates what the Fundamentalist Right may be all about, a
>
> strange world of racial privilege, religious intolerance and child
>
> marriage.
>
>
> Our current president is supported by the religious right who consider
him
>
> one of their own. I worry. sk
>
>
_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
[email protected]
I had commented on this list earlier about sexism in literature from the
1950's.
If the books are listed on ANY reading lists sold to or used by
homeschoolers, her comments are valid. A homeschooler on a list like this
once said her family used no books written past the 19th century (referring
to children's literature) because they wanted to instill 19th century values
in their children.
I don't think anyone said "all Christians," but there are truly many who are
of that bent. Little House on the Prairie has a curriculum to go with it.
There are (or used to be, I don't know if the programs are still in use)
Christian families who use a different curriculum for girls and boys. Same
company, a female curriculum for homeschoolrs, and another for males. It is
very Christian-oriented (if it's still there). The girls' was called Pearl
of Great Price, I think.
Because to outsiders all homeschoolers share the same general reputation and
are painted with the same social and statistical brushes, I think more
homeschoolers should know about the range of belief and practice which is out
there. If it hurts us to know, it hurts us (and others) more NOT to know, if
we end up in conversations where we are informed by people who aren't even
homeschooling about things which turn out to be true.
I don't personally like to be blindsided. I like to say, "Yes, I know..."
and have a response thought out. Sometimes it's just "Not all homeschoolers
are that way." But if I say "I'm a homeschooler, and I don't do that" it
doesn't change the fact that other homeschoolers do [whatever it is].
Sandra
1950's.
If the books are listed on ANY reading lists sold to or used by
homeschoolers, her comments are valid. A homeschooler on a list like this
once said her family used no books written past the 19th century (referring
to children's literature) because they wanted to instill 19th century values
in their children.
I don't think anyone said "all Christians," but there are truly many who are
of that bent. Little House on the Prairie has a curriculum to go with it.
There are (or used to be, I don't know if the programs are still in use)
Christian families who use a different curriculum for girls and boys. Same
company, a female curriculum for homeschoolrs, and another for males. It is
very Christian-oriented (if it's still there). The girls' was called Pearl
of Great Price, I think.
Because to outsiders all homeschoolers share the same general reputation and
are painted with the same social and statistical brushes, I think more
homeschoolers should know about the range of belief and practice which is out
there. If it hurts us to know, it hurts us (and others) more NOT to know, if
we end up in conversations where we are informed by people who aren't even
homeschooling about things which turn out to be true.
I don't personally like to be blindsided. I like to say, "Yes, I know..."
and have a response thought out. Sometimes it's just "Not all homeschoolers
are that way." But if I say "I'm a homeschooler, and I don't do that" it
doesn't change the fact that other homeschoolers do [whatever it is].
Sandra
Johanna
very interesting post Sandra. I had recently heard of the Elsie Dinsmore books through a fundamentalist christian catalog I get. I have never read one and now I will have to just to see what she is talking about. I love old books, but read them with the understanding of the context they come from. A small child may not have the maturity to do so, and I can see how a lot of prejudices could be assimilated by imitating a heroine like Elsie. I am a christian who is often disgusted with how easily some christians blindly follow others opinions and never question things out for themselves.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 8:26 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Dick, Jane, Spot and Puff Guilty of Situational Ethics and Character Decay
I received this yesterday from a friend's friend. Although she lives in
Albuquerque, we've never met! <g> She's close friends with a family I know
well in Bonfield, Ontario. I find that really amusing, but I'm glad to be
one of her e-mail pals, and she's a really great writer.
I asked her permission to send this to this list, and she wrote <<Share all
you want. I knew you are a home schooler who doesn't want to marry off her 12
year old to a patriarch. That is why I e-mailed you. >>
All below this line is by Sharon Karpinski, of Albuquerque, who's not a
homeschooler but who is a fine writer and home-philosopher of the highest
nature <bwg>:
--------------------------------------------
Last week I found six Elsie Dinsmore books at a store off Central Avenue. I
immediately bought all that weren't duplicates to mine even though I paid
$1. apiece for the last ones I laid hands on (in Washburn, Wisconsin 15
years ago) and these had escalated to $14. "You were lucky to get so
many," the bookstore owner said. " These just came in. They are very
popular. They just fly off the shelves once I put them on my mailing
lists."
I was amazed since, for many years, I was the only person I knew who was
intimately acquainted with Elsie---or even acquainted at all. My
grandmother, a huge fan in her youth (we are now back to around 1906) had
read every single Elsie book as a child. Since no one in my family ever
threw out a book, I'd read several a good fifty years after they'd gone out
of print. Curiosity piqued, I went to the Net to find 2,110 entries for
Elsie. I discovered, to my horror, that Elsie is being pushed by Christian
Fundamentalists as achild,
exemplifies the idea that character counts in the face of tribulation. The
books accurately picture 19th century life." It turns out that the
Fundamentalist press has even reprinted the first four Elsie books. The
first is now titled Elsie, the Endless Wait (this is when she is pilloried
by her cousins while longing for her absent father). There is even a line
of Elsie dolls illustrating pertinent moments in the stories.
A bit of literary background: The Elsie Dinsmore series, written by Martha
Finlay) was quite possibly the first set of "girls" books. The Dodd Company
(before Meade came along) published the first story in 1868. This antedates
even Little Women though Louisa was a far better writer. In their day,
which lasted about fifty years, Elsie sold hugely. There were eventually
perhaps twenty five or thirty books and the story was terminated only
because Finlay died.
Despite the fact that I dote on Elsie, I am horrified that defenseless
Christian children are being assigned this book because---for those of you
that are not Elsie fans---Elsie is NOT Nancy Drew in a hoopskirt . A brief
summary:
Elsie is a Southern heiress who came to be because her father and mother
fell in love and eloped when he was seventeen and she was fifteen. Elsie's
mother died in childbirth at 16. Her father Horace, horrified, took off for
Europe leaving Elsie to be raised by Mrs. Murray, a Scotch-Presyterian
housekeeper and Chloe, Elsie's beloved black Mammie, who adores all white
folk but particularly adores Elsie. When Mrs. Murray kicks the bucket,
Elsie is sent to live with her paternal Grandfather and his second wife, a
social climber with a passel of awful children, most notably Enna, who
abuses Elsie daily. The story opens as Horace arrives home from Europe when
Elsie is eight. He cannot stand the sight of her, because she looks exactly
like his dead wife, and he cannot stand listening to her either, because
she is a devout Christian who won't play secular songs on Sunday or wear
new clothes to church because they would take her mind off worship in God's
house. Elsie falls off piano benches, passes into brain fever and suffers
other horrors too numerous to mention until such a time as she convinces
her father to be saved too. Now mind you, all of the above is not a world
that I embrace but although narrowly righteous, it's not deviant. What IS
horrifying about the assignment of these books to unknowing children is
that the following elements ALSO figure in Elsie's perennial saga:
1. Elsie owns three hundred slaves in her own name and, in book four, buys
several more. She always calls them "my people" as in," my possessions."
2. All the black people in the book (with the exception of Chloe's "unruly
buck husband" who is sold away from her) love the Massa and give thanks
practically daily for their servitude. Chloe's husband, in his old age,
sees the light of God and becomes a willing slave once more.
3. Elsie's relationship with her father is most peculiar, involving as it
does many mouth-to-mouth kisses and caresses. She strokes him regularly and
speaks of her adoration. He returns it. Every day she sits on his lap as he
instructs her. This goes on until she is fifteen or so. She does nothing
without his permission, because to obey one's parents is absolute filial
duty, even unto her 25th year.
4. After a brief interlude with a fortune hunter in Book 3 (a man that
Horace quickly dispatches to the state pen), Elsie marries her father's
best friend, who is 20 years older than she is and whom she has known since
she was eight.
It is for reasons 3 and 4 that I, while in high school, wrote an essay
called "Elsie Dinsmore Meets Sigmund Freud."
5. Elsie is not an inclusive Christian. In books one and two she is
threatened with convent school. She knows this is the end for her because
what the priests and nuns do in those places is unspeakable. Mrs. Murray,
her old housekeeper, told her all about it. At the very least she will be
locked away and tortured until she converts. Papists are condemned in
several of the following books too.
6. Anti-semitism crops up in Book 5, "Elsie's Children."
7. The KKK is a force for good, Cousin Enna becomes a Confederate spy and
the Dinsmore darkies (all of whom speak perfect Jim Crow and Zip Coon)
resist freedom, lingering into the 1890's as "servants" whose wages are
never mentioned.
8.Not to misrepresent things: Elsie is a model slaveowner. She forbids
flogging, substituting loss of privileges and imprisonment on bread and
water as punishments for failure to work. She lectures her New England
overseer about how one must allow for the indolent nature of the black folk
and arranges the services of a chaplain for "her people." Her children are
unfailingly thoughtful to their slave playmates, teaching them that when
they go to heaven, they will turn white like their masters.
9. Did I mention that Elsie, besides being a bigot, is an insufferable
prig? She suffers nervous prostrations and is given to dialogue like,
"Are you vexed with me, Papa?" Following this line, she frequently kneels
at his feet. Later, when she is a woman, Elsie says "Unhand me this
instant, sir!" and the like. Naturally, she is utterly beautiful and
worshipped by all.
I love Elsie---the way I love to study poisonous reptiles. As a role model
OR as history OR as as example of good English composition, Elsie is a
disaster. That she is now being touted as a Christian example to malleable
children indicates what the Fundamentalist Right may be all about, a
strange world of racial privilege, religious intolerance and child
marriage.
Our current president is supported by the religious right who consider him
one of their own. I worry. sk
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Say you love them
with a DOMAIN NAME!
www.
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
There's a site with several chapters in and I guess they'll be adding others
http://www.hshangout.com/elsie.html
and an excerpt from the first page:
"I have been over and over it," replied the little girl in a tone of
despondency, "and still there are two figures that will not come right."
"How do you know they are not right, little puss?" shaking her curls as he
spoke.
"Oh! please, Arthur, don't pull my hair. I have the answer—that's the way I
know."
"Well, then, why don't you just set the figures down. I would."
"Oh! no, indeed; that would not be honest."
"Pooh! nonsense! nobody would be the wiser, nor the poorer."
"No, but it would be just like telling a lie. But I can never get it right
while you are bothering me so," said Elsie, laying her slate aside in
despair. Then taking out her geography, she began studying most diligently.
But Arthur continued his persecutions tickling her, pulling her hair,
twitching the book out of her band, and talking almost incessantly, making
remarks, and asking questions; till at last Elsie said, as if just ready to
cry,
"Indeed, Arthur, if you don't let me alone, I shall never be able to get my
lessons."
"Go away then; take your book out on the veranda, and learn your lessons
there," said Louise. "I'll call you when Miss Day comes."
"Oh! no, Louise, I cannot do that, because it would be disobedience," replied
Elsie, taking out her writing materials.
Arthur stood over her criticising every letter she made, and finally jogged
her elbow in such a way as to cause her to drop all the ink in her pen upon
the paper, making quite a large blot.
"Oh!" cried the little girl, bursting into tears, "now I shall lose my ride,
for Miss Day will not let me go; and I was so anxious to see all those
beautiful flowers." Arthur, who was really not very vicious, felt some
compunction when he saw the mischief he had done.
http://www.hshangout.com/elsie.html
and an excerpt from the first page:
"I have been over and over it," replied the little girl in a tone of
despondency, "and still there are two figures that will not come right."
"How do you know they are not right, little puss?" shaking her curls as he
spoke.
"Oh! please, Arthur, don't pull my hair. I have the answer—that's the way I
know."
"Well, then, why don't you just set the figures down. I would."
"Oh! no, indeed; that would not be honest."
"Pooh! nonsense! nobody would be the wiser, nor the poorer."
"No, but it would be just like telling a lie. But I can never get it right
while you are bothering me so," said Elsie, laying her slate aside in
despair. Then taking out her geography, she began studying most diligently.
But Arthur continued his persecutions tickling her, pulling her hair,
twitching the book out of her band, and talking almost incessantly, making
remarks, and asking questions; till at last Elsie said, as if just ready to
cry,
"Indeed, Arthur, if you don't let me alone, I shall never be able to get my
lessons."
"Go away then; take your book out on the veranda, and learn your lessons
there," said Louise. "I'll call you when Miss Day comes."
"Oh! no, Louise, I cannot do that, because it would be disobedience," replied
Elsie, taking out her writing materials.
Arthur stood over her criticising every letter she made, and finally jogged
her elbow in such a way as to cause her to drop all the ink in her pen upon
the paper, making quite a large blot.
"Oh!" cried the little girl, bursting into tears, "now I shall lose my ride,
for Miss Day will not let me go; and I was so anxious to see all those
beautiful flowers." Arthur, who was really not very vicious, felt some
compunction when he saw the mischief he had done.
[email protected]
Google.com search of Elsie Dinsmore, first page of ten listed only, below.
I'm curious about "Martha Finley's Elsie Dinsmore stories updated for today's
readers by Mission City Press. "---edited versions are being reprinted by
Mission City Press, and carried by The Adventure & Evangelism Book Catalog.
Looks like it's being promoted by Christians for children.
Elsie Dinsmore - A Life of Faith from Mission City Press
... Welcome to the "home" of Elsie Dinsmore: A Life of Faith! Elsie Dinsmore
was one
of the most beloved fictional heroines of all time. Why? Because she lived A
...
Description: Martha Finley's Elsie Dinsmore stories updated for today's
readers by Mission City Press.
Category: Arts > Literature > Children's Literature > Children's Series Books
www.elsie-dinsmore.com/ - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
Elsie's Impossible Choice - book 2 in the Elsie Dinsmore ...
... Endless Wait, readers travel once more to the pre-Civil War world of Elsie
Dinsmore,
the little heiress deprived of a parent's love until she was almost nine ...
www.elsie-dinsmore.com/book2.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.elsie-dinsmore.com ]
Elsie Dinsmore Home Page
... Have you seen our Elsie Dinsmore doll yet? S he is the girl in the books
"come alive."
We make her right here in our home...that is, we do the assembly here in ...
www.elsiedinsmore.com/ - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
Elsie Dinsmore Home Page
... Who is Elsie Dinsmore? ... How was this all resolved? You will have to
read the books
and find out for yourself! And now, Elsie Dinsmore® is literally a doll. ...
www.elsiedinsmore.com/whoisElsie.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.elsiedinsmore.com ]
Safe Haven - Books Online - Elsie Dinsmore
... Resources: The Character of Elsie Dinsmore Martha Finley. Graphics 2000
Brave Web Creations Formatted by D. Gilley of Brave Web. Back.
www.bravewc.com/haven/booksonline/ed.html - 3k - Cached - Similar pages
Elsie Dinsmore Books
... The above advertisement is part of ... tastes, or preferences.
The Elsie Dinsmore Books. The Elsie Dinsmore ...
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/8756/Elsie/elsiebooks.html - 5k - Cached -
Similar pages
Fishermen's Network - Book Online - Elsie Dinsmore Collection ...
Elsie Dinsmore Book 1 By Martha Finley Originally published in 1868,
republished by Mantle Ministries in 1993 ...
www.hshangout.com/elsie.html - 3k - Cached - Similar pages
Elsie Dinsmore
... Harper Mother's Little Helper Busy Hands Afternoon Tea The Art of Writing
An Outing
With Father Seasons of a Girl's Life Histories & Heroines Elsie Dinsmore. ...
www.visionforum.com/beautifulgirlhood/productlist.asp?dept=55 - 20k - Cached
- Similar pages
Mail Bag - Elsie Dinsmore Correspondence
0, Search for Products. ... The Adventure & Evangelism Book Catalog.
The Liberty Doll. Elsie Dinsmore. GA Henty. ...
www.visionforum.com/hottopics/mailbag/elsie/ - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.visionforum.com ]
Elsie Dinsmore Dolls
... Nearly seventy years ago, Martha Finley brought the character of Elsie
Dinsmore to
life. Her books are still cherished by readers young and old alike. Today ...
www.jeanfarish.com/cottage/elsie/elsie_1.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
I'm curious about "Martha Finley's Elsie Dinsmore stories updated for today's
readers by Mission City Press. "---edited versions are being reprinted by
Mission City Press, and carried by The Adventure & Evangelism Book Catalog.
Looks like it's being promoted by Christians for children.
Elsie Dinsmore - A Life of Faith from Mission City Press
... Welcome to the "home" of Elsie Dinsmore: A Life of Faith! Elsie Dinsmore
was one
of the most beloved fictional heroines of all time. Why? Because she lived A
...
Description: Martha Finley's Elsie Dinsmore stories updated for today's
readers by Mission City Press.
Category: Arts > Literature > Children's Literature > Children's Series Books
www.elsie-dinsmore.com/ - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
Elsie's Impossible Choice - book 2 in the Elsie Dinsmore ...
... Endless Wait, readers travel once more to the pre-Civil War world of Elsie
Dinsmore,
the little heiress deprived of a parent's love until she was almost nine ...
www.elsie-dinsmore.com/book2.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.elsie-dinsmore.com ]
Elsie Dinsmore Home Page
... Have you seen our Elsie Dinsmore doll yet? S he is the girl in the books
"come alive."
We make her right here in our home...that is, we do the assembly here in ...
www.elsiedinsmore.com/ - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
Elsie Dinsmore Home Page
... Who is Elsie Dinsmore? ... How was this all resolved? You will have to
read the books
and find out for yourself! And now, Elsie Dinsmore® is literally a doll. ...
www.elsiedinsmore.com/whoisElsie.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.elsiedinsmore.com ]
Safe Haven - Books Online - Elsie Dinsmore
... Resources: The Character of Elsie Dinsmore Martha Finley. Graphics 2000
Brave Web Creations Formatted by D. Gilley of Brave Web. Back.
www.bravewc.com/haven/booksonline/ed.html - 3k - Cached - Similar pages
Elsie Dinsmore Books
... The above advertisement is part of ... tastes, or preferences.
The Elsie Dinsmore Books. The Elsie Dinsmore ...
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/8756/Elsie/elsiebooks.html - 5k - Cached -
Similar pages
Fishermen's Network - Book Online - Elsie Dinsmore Collection ...
Elsie Dinsmore Book 1 By Martha Finley Originally published in 1868,
republished by Mantle Ministries in 1993 ...
www.hshangout.com/elsie.html - 3k - Cached - Similar pages
Elsie Dinsmore
... Harper Mother's Little Helper Busy Hands Afternoon Tea The Art of Writing
An Outing
With Father Seasons of a Girl's Life Histories & Heroines Elsie Dinsmore. ...
www.visionforum.com/beautifulgirlhood/productlist.asp?dept=55 - 20k - Cached
- Similar pages
Mail Bag - Elsie Dinsmore Correspondence
0, Search for Products. ... The Adventure & Evangelism Book Catalog.
The Liberty Doll. Elsie Dinsmore. GA Henty. ...
www.visionforum.com/hottopics/mailbag/elsie/ - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.visionforum.com ]
Elsie Dinsmore Dolls
... Nearly seventy years ago, Martha Finley brought the character of Elsie
Dinsmore to
life. Her books are still cherished by readers young and old alike. Today ...
www.jeanfarish.com/cottage/elsie/elsie_1.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
Johanna
I read this post and did not interpret to say all Christians. Ihave seen tis series marketed towards fundamental christians for the purpose of character education. If they are read as a model without thinking things through, it could cause some gross prejudices and i think that was the point of the essay
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: kate mcdaniel
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Dick, Jane, Spot and Puff Guilty of Situational Ethics and Character Decay
While I appreciate the history lesson, to say that all Christians are
embracing this book and enforcing it on their children is a bit of a
stretch. If you want to share propaganda regarding the Religious Right and
the current President of the United States is this the appropriate place to
do so??
I would be interested to know where the information came from that the
"Religious Right" were forcing this book,"Elsie" on malleable children. Is
this something the writer has observed first hand? Has she really
researched her information? Talked with parents that are using this material
to see in what manner the book is used for?
I personally have never heard of the Elsie books till this post. I am a
Christian. I support the current President of the United States. I am not
forcing my children to read "Elsie" books or to practice any of the
questionable behaviors that the writer has listed.
Kate
On Wed, 23 May 2001 09:26:52 EDT, [email protected] wrote:
> I received this yesterday from a friend's friend. Although she lives in
> Albuquerque, we've never met! <g> She's close friends with a family I
know
> well in Bonfield, Ontario. I find that really amusing, but I'm glad to
be
> one of her e-mail pals, and she's a really great writer.
>
> I asked her permission to send this to this list, and she wrote <<Share
all
> you want. I knew you are a home schooler who doesn't want to marry off
her 12
> year old to a patriarch. That is why I e-mailed you. >>
>
> All below this line is by Sharon Karpinski, of Albuquerque, who's not a
> homeschooler but who is a fine writer and home-philosopher of the highest
> nature <bwg>:
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Last week I found six Elsie Dinsmore books at a store off Central Avenue.
I
>
> immediately bought all that weren't duplicates to mine even though I paid
>
> $1. apiece for the last ones I laid hands on (in Washburn, Wisconsin 15
>
> years ago) and these had escalated to $14. "You were lucky to get so
>
> many," the bookstore owner said. " These just came in. They are very
>
> popular. They just fly off the shelves once I put them on my mailing
>
> lists."
>
>
> I was amazed since, for many years, I was the only person I knew who was
>
> intimately acquainted with Elsie---or even acquainted at all. My
>
> grandmother, a huge fan in her youth (we are now back to around 1906)
had
>
> read every single Elsie book as a child. Since no one in my family ever
>
> threw out a book, I'd read several a good fifty years after they'd gone
out
>
> of print. Curiosity piqued, I went to the Net to find 2,110 entries for
>
> Elsie. I discovered, to my horror, that Elsie is being pushed by
Christian
>
> Fundamentalists as achild,
>
> exemplifies the idea that character counts in the face of tribulation.
The
>
> books accurately picture 19th century life." It turns out that the
>
> Fundamentalist press has even reprinted the first four Elsie books. The
>
> first is now titled Elsie, the Endless Wait (this is when she is
pilloried
>
> by her cousins while longing for her absent father). There is even a line
>
> of Elsie dolls illustrating pertinent moments in the stories.
>
>
> A bit of literary background: The Elsie Dinsmore series, written by
Martha
>
> Finlay) was quite possibly the first set of "girls" books. The Dodd
Company
>
> (before Meade came along) published the first story in 1868. This
antedates
>
> even Little Women though Louisa was a far better writer. In their day,
>
> which lasted about fifty years, Elsie sold hugely. There were eventually
>
> perhaps twenty five or thirty books and the story was terminated only
>
> because Finlay died.
>
>
> Despite the fact that I dote on Elsie, I am horrified that defenseless
>
> Christian children are being assigned this book because---for those of
you
>
> that are not Elsie fans---Elsie is NOT Nancy Drew in a hoopskirt . A
brief
>
> summary:
>
>
> Elsie is a Southern heiress who came to be because her father and mother
>
> fell in love and eloped when he was seventeen and she was fifteen.
Elsie's
>
> mother died in childbirth at 16. Her father Horace, horrified, took off
for
>
> Europe leaving Elsie to be raised by Mrs. Murray, a Scotch-Presyterian
>
> housekeeper and Chloe, Elsie's beloved black Mammie, who adores all white
>
> folk but particularly adores Elsie. When Mrs. Murray kicks the bucket,
>
> Elsie is sent to live with her paternal Grandfather and his second wife,
a
>
> social climber with a passel of awful children, most notably Enna, who
>
> abuses Elsie daily. The story opens as Horace arrives home from Europe
when
>
> Elsie is eight. He cannot stand the sight of her, because she looks
exactly
>
> like his dead wife, and he cannot stand listening to her either, because
>
> she is a devout Christian who won't play secular songs on Sunday or wear
>
> new clothes to church because they would take her mind off worship in
God's
>
> house. Elsie falls off piano benches, passes into brain fever and suffers
>
> other horrors too numerous to mention until such a time as she convinces
>
> her father to be saved too. Now mind you, all of the above is not a world
>
> that I embrace but although narrowly righteous, it's not deviant. What
IS
>
> horrifying about the assignment of these books to unknowing children is
>
> that the following elements ALSO figure in Elsie's perennial saga:
>
>
> 1. Elsie owns three hundred slaves in her own name and, in book four,
buys
>
> several more. She always calls them "my people" as in," my possessions."
>
>
> 2. All the black people in the book (with the exception of Chloe's
"unruly
>
> buck husband" who is sold away from her) love the Massa and give thanks
>
> practically daily for their servitude. Chloe's husband, in his old age,
>
> sees the light of God and becomes a willing slave once more.
>
>
> 3. Elsie's relationship with her father is most peculiar, involving as it
>
> does many mouth-to-mouth kisses and caresses. She strokes him regularly
and
>
> speaks of her adoration. He returns it. Every day she sits on his lap as
he
>
> instructs her. This goes on until she is fifteen or so. She does nothing
>
> without his permission, because to obey one's parents is absolute filial
>
> duty, even unto her 25th year.
>
>
> 4. After a brief interlude with a fortune hunter in Book 3 (a man that
>
> Horace quickly dispatches to the state pen), Elsie marries her father's
>
> best friend, who is 20 years older than she is and whom she has known
since
>
> she was eight.
>
>
> It is for reasons 3 and 4 that I, while in high school, wrote an essay
>
> called "Elsie Dinsmore Meets Sigmund Freud."
>
>
> 5. Elsie is not an inclusive Christian. In books one and two she is
>
> threatened with convent school. She knows this is the end for her because
>
> what the priests and nuns do in those places is unspeakable. Mrs. Murray,
>
> her old housekeeper, told her all about it. At the very least she will be
>
> locked away and tortured until she converts. Papists are condemned in
>
> several of the following books too.
>
>
> 6. Anti-semitism crops up in Book 5, "Elsie's Children."
>
>
> 7. The KKK is a force for good, Cousin Enna becomes a Confederate spy and
>
> the Dinsmore darkies (all of whom speak perfect Jim Crow and Zip Coon)
>
> resist freedom, lingering into the 1890's as "servants" whose wages are
>
> never mentioned.
>
>
> 8.Not to misrepresent things: Elsie is a model slaveowner. She forbids
>
> flogging, substituting loss of privileges and imprisonment on bread and
>
> water as punishments for failure to work. She lectures her New England
>
> overseer about how one must allow for the indolent nature of the black
folk
>
> and arranges the services of a chaplain for "her people." Her children
are
>
> unfailingly thoughtful to their slave playmates, teaching them that when
>
> they go to heaven, they will turn white like their masters.
>
>
> 9. Did I mention that Elsie, besides being a bigot, is an insufferable
>
> prig? She suffers nervous prostrations and is given to dialogue like,
>
> "Are you vexed with me, Papa?" Following this line, she frequently
kneels
>
> at his feet. Later, when she is a woman, Elsie says "Unhand me this
>
> instant, sir!" and the like. Naturally, she is utterly beautiful and
>
> worshipped by all.
>
>
> I love Elsie---the way I love to study poisonous reptiles. As a role
model
>
> OR as history OR as as example of good English composition, Elsie is a
>
> disaster. That she is now being touted as a Christian example to
malleable
>
> children indicates what the Fundamentalist Right may be all about, a
>
> strange world of racial privilege, religious intolerance and child
>
> marriage.
>
>
> Our current president is supported by the religious right who consider
him
>
> one of their own. I worry. sk
>
>
_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Johanna
All the more reason to unschool!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Dick, Jane, Spot and Puff Guilty of Situational Ethics and Character Decay
There's a site with several chapters in and I guess they'll be adding others
http://www.hshangout.com/elsie.html
and an excerpt from the first page:
"I have been over and over it," replied the little girl in a tone of
despondency, "and still there are two figures that will not come right."
"How do you know they are not right, little puss?" shaking her curls as he
spoke.
"Oh! please, Arthur, don't pull my hair. I have the answer—that's the way I
know."
"Well, then, why don't you just set the figures down. I would."
"Oh! no, indeed; that would not be honest."
"Pooh! nonsense! nobody would be the wiser, nor the poorer."
"No, but it would be just like telling a lie. But I can never get it right
while you are bothering me so," said Elsie, laying her slate aside in
despair. Then taking out her geography, she began studying most diligently.
But Arthur continued his persecutions tickling her, pulling her hair,
twitching the book out of her band, and talking almost incessantly, making
remarks, and asking questions; till at last Elsie said, as if just ready to
cry,
"Indeed, Arthur, if you don't let me alone, I shall never be able to get my
lessons."
"Go away then; take your book out on the veranda, and learn your lessons
there," said Louise. "I'll call you when Miss Day comes."
"Oh! no, Louise, I cannot do that, because it would be disobedience," replied
Elsie, taking out her writing materials.
Arthur stood over her criticising every letter she made, and finally jogged
her elbow in such a way as to cause her to drop all the ink in her pen upon
the paper, making quite a large blot.
"Oh!" cried the little girl, bursting into tears, "now I shall lose my ride,
for Miss Day will not let me go; and I was so anxious to see all those
beautiful flowers." Arthur, who was really not very vicious, felt some
compunction when he saw the mischief he had done.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
www.
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
A unit study for developing Christian character in children using
Elsie Dinsmore as a role model.
http://www.utmost-way.com/tcoed.htm
Elsie dolls! And more...
http://www.elsiedinsmore.com/
Elsie study guide
http://www.zondervan.com/1928749518.htm
And just for fun :) a book review that pans the Elsie books for being
a very poor example for Christian children
http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/BookReviews/BookReviewDisplay.asp?key
=1
Elsie Dinsmore as a role model.
http://www.utmost-way.com/tcoed.htm
Elsie dolls! And more...
http://www.elsiedinsmore.com/
Elsie study guide
http://www.zondervan.com/1928749518.htm
And just for fun :) a book review that pans the Elsie books for being
a very poor example for Christian children
http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/BookReviews/BookReviewDisplay.asp?key
=1
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/01 11:54:08 AM, DACunefare@... writes:
<< http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/BookReviews/BookReviewDisplay.asp?key
=1 >>
About that anti-review, their objections is that it's not stern enough and
the child is being supported (by the author) in having thought for herself!!
-=-Setting the Sabbath question aside, we must ask ourselves if children
should obey their parents or decide right and wrong for themselves. Miss
Finley bolsters the thought in the reader’s mind that the child should
decide. Now, if an unbelieving parent is commanding a child to commit
adultery, murder, incest, or some other serious ill, a child might know to do
right. However, in laying down the fine points of Christian practice, young
children are not likely to be doctrinal experts. In these matters, if the
Bible teaches women to listen and be under the authority of their
husbands. Certainly children should follow suit. If women are easily
deceiveF䅃䔽≇敮敶愢⁆䅍䥌夽十乓卅剉䘾-=-
(That's the reviewer, about an incident in which Elsie refused to read
secular texts to her dying non-Christian father on the Sabbath; reviewer
seems I guess to think she should have, since it was her father.)
And the insult about women being easily decieved is extra interesting.
-=-There is a danger for children to have such an independent spirit
concerning spiritual matters. For instance, suppose the parents are against
Christian rock music, but the children see nothing wrong with it, and
therefore, according to Elsie, can follow their own spiritual convictions
concerning music. However, it is presumable that eight-year-old children are
not likely to be wiser than their parents in these matters.-=-
I guess reading Elsie Dinsmore can speak over the years (in her newly edited
voice) to cause children to want Christian rock music. I guess it's more
abominable than anyone ever thought.
-=-There is also a terrible reference to the "rod" on page 94 of book two. It
is considered an ignominious and revolting punishment. Also, as we can see,
if Elsie had been biblically reprimanded for her disobedience, an
eight-year-old’s continuing battle of wills with her father would not have
developed into a melodrama spanning two entire books, and which the author
Christianizes by culminating it with a confession of faith on the father’s
part. Oh, what we can’t blame on God in fiction!-=-
Oh no. A 19th century book critical of "the rod" which might cause
unhappiness in children on which rods are used in the 21st century!?
That sucks.
That powerful sucks.
What will THE family of THIS Christian father be compelled to read for
inspirational fiction?
Sandra
<< http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/BookReviews/BookReviewDisplay.asp?key
=1 >>
About that anti-review, their objections is that it's not stern enough and
the child is being supported (by the author) in having thought for herself!!
-=-Setting the Sabbath question aside, we must ask ourselves if children
should obey their parents or decide right and wrong for themselves. Miss
Finley bolsters the thought in the reader’s mind that the child should
decide. Now, if an unbelieving parent is commanding a child to commit
adultery, murder, incest, or some other serious ill, a child might know to do
right. However, in laying down the fine points of Christian practice, young
children are not likely to be doctrinal experts. In these matters, if the
Bible teaches women to listen and be under the authority of their
husbands. Certainly children should follow suit. If women are easily
deceiveF䅃䔽≇敮敶愢⁆䅍䥌夽十乓卅剉䘾-=-
(That's the reviewer, about an incident in which Elsie refused to read
secular texts to her dying non-Christian father on the Sabbath; reviewer
seems I guess to think she should have, since it was her father.)
And the insult about women being easily decieved is extra interesting.
-=-There is a danger for children to have such an independent spirit
concerning spiritual matters. For instance, suppose the parents are against
Christian rock music, but the children see nothing wrong with it, and
therefore, according to Elsie, can follow their own spiritual convictions
concerning music. However, it is presumable that eight-year-old children are
not likely to be wiser than their parents in these matters.-=-
I guess reading Elsie Dinsmore can speak over the years (in her newly edited
voice) to cause children to want Christian rock music. I guess it's more
abominable than anyone ever thought.
-=-There is also a terrible reference to the "rod" on page 94 of book two. It
is considered an ignominious and revolting punishment. Also, as we can see,
if Elsie had been biblically reprimanded for her disobedience, an
eight-year-old’s continuing battle of wills with her father would not have
developed into a melodrama spanning two entire books, and which the author
Christianizes by culminating it with a confession of faith on the father’s
part. Oh, what we can’t blame on God in fiction!-=-
Oh no. A 19th century book critical of "the rod" which might cause
unhappiness in children on which rods are used in the 21st century!?
That sucks.
That powerful sucks.
What will THE family of THIS Christian father be compelled to read for
inspirational fiction?
Sandra
[email protected]
But Wait! Little House on the Prairie is dangerous radical feminism too!!!
-=-Oh, and by the way, Mr. Travilla had wanted the obedience vow removed from
their marriage ceremony because he never intended that dear Elsie should ever
be required to obey him, but should only do those things she wanted to do. So
we see that Miss Finley’s outspoken adherence to the Word of God extends only
into areas of her own preference. Though Elsie is adamant about Sabbath
issues and her own perceived code of Christianity, her readers seem to be
continually learning confusing ideas about obeying parents, and now husbands
also. Authors like Miss Finley and Mrs. Wilder of the Little House on the
Prairie series were sowing the seeds of feminism even in their day by
introducing the minds of young girls to fictional male characters who "loved
their wives so much" that they did not want them to behave according to God’s
Word.-=-
Same review, at http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/BookReviews
Those of you who have some time and want an adrenaline rush should definitely
read it.
Sandra
-=-Oh, and by the way, Mr. Travilla had wanted the obedience vow removed from
their marriage ceremony because he never intended that dear Elsie should ever
be required to obey him, but should only do those things she wanted to do. So
we see that Miss Finley’s outspoken adherence to the Word of God extends only
into areas of her own preference. Though Elsie is adamant about Sabbath
issues and her own perceived code of Christianity, her readers seem to be
continually learning confusing ideas about obeying parents, and now husbands
also. Authors like Miss Finley and Mrs. Wilder of the Little House on the
Prairie series were sowing the seeds of feminism even in their day by
introducing the minds of young girls to fictional male characters who "loved
their wives so much" that they did not want them to behave according to God’s
Word.-=-
Same review, at http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/BookReviews
Those of you who have some time and want an adrenaline rush should definitely
read it.
Sandra
Johanna
wow and they call us unschoolers radical. Obey your husband to death, no matter what... I don't think that is exactly what God intended. I have known too many women who were abused and didn't get help because they had to obey their husbands and the church turned their back on them. The other side of this scripture says a husband is to love his wife as the Lord loved the church and gave himself up for her. Most abusers totally omit this half of the scripture. I obey my husband, but my husband is not abusive. He on the other hand will listen to me when I don't agree and sometimes changes his mind. This is a relationship, not a power trip.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected] ; SKarpinski@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Dick, Jane, Spot and Puff Guilty of Situational Ethics and Character Decay
But Wait! Little House on the Prairie is dangerous radical feminism too!!!
-=-Oh, and by the way, Mr. Travilla had wanted the obedience vow removed from
their marriage ceremony because he never intended that dear Elsie should ever
be required to obey him, but should only do those things she wanted to do. So
we see that Miss Finley’s outspoken adherence to the Word of God extends only
into areas of her own preference. Though Elsie is adamant about Sabbath
issues and her own perceived code of Christianity, her readers seem to be
continually learning confusing ideas about obeying parents, and now husbands
also. Authors like Miss Finley and Mrs. Wilder of the Little House on the
Prairie series were sowing the seeds of feminism even in their day by
introducing the minds of young girls to fictional male characters who "loved
their wives so much" that they did not want them to behave according to God’s
Word.-=-
Same review, at http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/BookReviews
Those of you who have some time and want an adrenaline rush should definitely
read it.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Apply Now - 0% INTRO VISA
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]