Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: First grade - part II (long)
Tammy Graves
Ok, this is where I will probably get alot of reply from everyone...
I'm having a hard time convincing my dh that homeschooling is the absolute way
to go with both our dd's. This is more of a lifestyle change realization that I
will work with him on. He's really worried about having to be the sole"bread
winner" in our family and having to really adjust to a financial budget.
Both of us hated school, but never really had any problems until about 4th
grade. That seemed to be the "burnout" age when school definately became a
problem. A problem I have, is just like all newcomers to unschooling, I am
afraid that I will not be able to teach my girls properly. Everyday, I am
becomming more and more convinced though, that I can do this. I also do not have
a lot of children in my direct neighborhood that my dd's play with now, so I am
worried about socialization. Knowing that if I am not working, I will not be
able to have my dd's join ballet, karate, or whatever, because our funds will be
reduced so much. I already am looking for the village's "free" stuff for kids,
but I dont know if that will be enough. The only thing that I know that will
come out of this, will help with is that my dd's might learn to get along better
with each other if they are always together. Currently the older (6) is always
playing "boss" with the younger (3).
I get alot of the same questions/comments that I currently have a hard time
answering since I have not been hs'g yet;
"What about socialization?" "Your girls are so shy right now, they need the
stimilization and socialization from others"
"Everyone goes to school, you did, your husband did, "I" did, and we all did
fine, why go against the norm" "you do not have a teaching degree, how far do
you think you teach them, if you do not know all the subjects?" "aren't you
worried about college?" (my answer to that has always been no, since I never
went to college except to take a course one time that I really wanted to learn
about, and even then, I did not take the licensing exam at the end because I
realized that subject really sucked and I no longer cared about it)
Ok, so now I ask for everyone's help and advise. I've never really been a "stand
up and speak for yourself" type person, always been in the background just
listening to what everyone says and takes the good & bad with all information
and sortof just does what it is I really think will work. But this is not just
my life that I am affecting, its my dh's and my dd's.
|--------+------------------------>
| | diamondair@ema|
| | il.msn.com |
| | |
| | 05/18/2001 |
| | 10:44 AM |
| | Please respond|
| | to |
| | Unschooling-do|
| | tcom |
| | |
|--------+------------------------>
| To: [email protected] |
| cc: (bcc: Tammy Graves/DF/HCIA) |
| Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: First grade |
| (was I've Had Enough) |
you start "showing troubles" and then you can stop drinking it. By
that time, the damage is done. Personally, I'd avoid the poison and
I'd avoid public school. I think it poisons children's minds with the
concepts that they need someone else to teach them in order to learn,
that adults can and should control every aspect of their lives, that
what 30 other children their own age think about their clothes
matters more than anything else in the world, that what those in
authority say about an issue is the definitive word, and many more
things that I really don't want my kids to learn. If I ever started
having doubts as to whether or not I should send my kid to PS, I
would go back and read John Taylor Gatto's "Six-Lesson Schoolteacher"
again and again until I stopped :-) (
http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html )
The reason kids look forward to going to public school is the
overwhelming propaganda and cultural machine that makes sure kids get
excited about it. Maybe you could talk to your daughter about her
specific concerns - what is it exactly that she wants from school.
More time with friends? Different crafts and opportunities to learn?
Riding a bus?? All of these things are things that you can arrange
for her without also burdening her with school.
For me, school is a place where the magic that lives inside each
child is methodically extiguished. I want to keep the magic alive for
my children as long as they want it to burn.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) inventor of new and wonderful things
and Asa (10/5/99) singer of protest songs
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I'm having a hard time convincing my dh that homeschooling is the absolute way
to go with both our dd's. This is more of a lifestyle change realization that I
will work with him on. He's really worried about having to be the sole"bread
winner" in our family and having to really adjust to a financial budget.
Both of us hated school, but never really had any problems until about 4th
grade. That seemed to be the "burnout" age when school definately became a
problem. A problem I have, is just like all newcomers to unschooling, I am
afraid that I will not be able to teach my girls properly. Everyday, I am
becomming more and more convinced though, that I can do this. I also do not have
a lot of children in my direct neighborhood that my dd's play with now, so I am
worried about socialization. Knowing that if I am not working, I will not be
able to have my dd's join ballet, karate, or whatever, because our funds will be
reduced so much. I already am looking for the village's "free" stuff for kids,
but I dont know if that will be enough. The only thing that I know that will
come out of this, will help with is that my dd's might learn to get along better
with each other if they are always together. Currently the older (6) is always
playing "boss" with the younger (3).
I get alot of the same questions/comments that I currently have a hard time
answering since I have not been hs'g yet;
"What about socialization?" "Your girls are so shy right now, they need the
stimilization and socialization from others"
"Everyone goes to school, you did, your husband did, "I" did, and we all did
fine, why go against the norm" "you do not have a teaching degree, how far do
you think you teach them, if you do not know all the subjects?" "aren't you
worried about college?" (my answer to that has always been no, since I never
went to college except to take a course one time that I really wanted to learn
about, and even then, I did not take the licensing exam at the end because I
realized that subject really sucked and I no longer cared about it)
Ok, so now I ask for everyone's help and advise. I've never really been a "stand
up and speak for yourself" type person, always been in the background just
listening to what everyone says and takes the good & bad with all information
and sortof just does what it is I really think will work. But this is not just
my life that I am affecting, its my dh's and my dd's.
|--------+------------------------>
| | diamondair@ema|
| | il.msn.com |
| | |
| | 05/18/2001 |
| | 10:44 AM |
| | Please respond|
| | to |
| | Unschooling-do|
| | tcom |
| | |
|--------+------------------------>
>---------------------------------------------------------|| |
| To: [email protected] |
| cc: (bcc: Tammy Graves/DF/HCIA) |
| Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: First grade |
| (was I've Had Enough) |
>---------------------------------------------------------|grade. My
> My oldest (6) is really looking forward to going to ps for first
> dh say's let her try it and we will just have to keep a good eye onher and the
> moment she starts showing troubles, we can pull her out. How aboutviews on
> this?I think it's kind of like saying it's OK to drink a mild poison until
you start "showing troubles" and then you can stop drinking it. By
that time, the damage is done. Personally, I'd avoid the poison and
I'd avoid public school. I think it poisons children's minds with the
concepts that they need someone else to teach them in order to learn,
that adults can and should control every aspect of their lives, that
what 30 other children their own age think about their clothes
matters more than anything else in the world, that what those in
authority say about an issue is the definitive word, and many more
things that I really don't want my kids to learn. If I ever started
having doubts as to whether or not I should send my kid to PS, I
would go back and read John Taylor Gatto's "Six-Lesson Schoolteacher"
again and again until I stopped :-) (
http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html )
The reason kids look forward to going to public school is the
overwhelming propaganda and cultural machine that makes sure kids get
excited about it. Maybe you could talk to your daughter about her
specific concerns - what is it exactly that she wants from school.
More time with friends? Different crafts and opportunities to learn?
Riding a bus?? All of these things are things that you can arrange
for her without also burdening her with school.
For me, school is a place where the magic that lives inside each
child is methodically extiguished. I want to keep the magic alive for
my children as long as they want it to burn.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) inventor of new and wonderful things
and Asa (10/5/99) singer of protest songs
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Pete Schult
This mirrors a lot of my concerns. I'm at home with my 4 year old
daughter since my wife's job brings in more than I would be able to,
but I'm not particularly outgoing and there aren't other kids about
JJ's age in the neighborhood, so we do worry about socialization. We
also go to the park and to story time at the library, so she does get
to interact/play with other kids, but there's not the regular contact
with a set of friends yet (we're working on that).
--Pete
--
Pete Schult Stay at home Parent
http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/schult/default.html
mailto:schult@...
daughter since my wife's job brings in more than I would be able to,
but I'm not particularly outgoing and there aren't other kids about
JJ's age in the neighborhood, so we do worry about socialization. We
also go to the park and to story time at the library, so she does get
to interact/play with other kids, but there's not the regular contact
with a set of friends yet (we're working on that).
--Pete
--
Pete Schult Stay at home Parent
http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/schult/default.html
mailto:schult@...
Angela
"What about socialization?" "Your girls are so shy right now, they need the
stimilization and socialization from others"
I wrote an article for themestream on homeschooling shy children. It is at
my website and called "should you home school shy children" if you want to
read it. What it pretty much boiled down to for me, is that children do not
become less shy when they are left in a room full of people. They need to
learn confidence first where they feel safe and then they will feel like
they can open up more with new people. Putting shy children into the school
situation often makes them draw more into themselves because they don't feel
comfortable. Don't send them to school for this reason. :0(
There are many opportunities for socializing if you look around. You will
probably find a whole bunch of people home schooling right near you if you
find someone to connect you to them. They are like the underground
railroad. You would never know they are there unless you know where to
look.
"Everyone goes to school, you did, your husband did, "I" did, and we all did
fine,
It depends on what you consider fine. I got great grades. I learned how to
take tests and was very good at it. I retained only the stuff that
interested me which is what you children will do whether they go to school
or are schooled at home. Unschooling is following their interests so they
have the greatest chance to retain what they learn as it all interests them.
Also, It took me over ten years to get back my self esteem that was lost in
school. It isn't on my report card, but it is part of me. I hated all the
fakeness. I never felt comfortable being anyone but myself and so I didn't
fit in very well.
why go against the norm" "you do not have a teaching degree, how far do
you think you teach them, if you do not know all the subjects?"
Heck, if you went to school you should be able to teach them everything you
learned :0) Of course if you didn't retain it then why are you even
worried about teaching it to your kids. What did you learn in school that
you use every day still? Could you have learned it another way? How much
did you forget and does that effect your life now?
"aren't you
worried about college?"
If your kids want to go to college, they can find a way. If they have to
work at it to go at least they won't drink themselves silly for the first
two years.
I've never really been a "stand
up and speak for yourself" type person,
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Me too! I just let my life speak for itself. The only people that I discuss
unschooling with are the ones who ask and seriously want to know. The
others I just blow off. If they ask how the home schooling is going. I
just say "Great! We love the lifestyle!" That is all they need to know
even though I feel somewhat like a liar saying it because we DON'T DO
SCHOOL!!!! If you interact with your kids, you will see what their
interests are and you can help them to find the materials they want to
further their interests. I like the word facilitator. I am my children's
facilitator.
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
stimilization and socialization from others"
I wrote an article for themestream on homeschooling shy children. It is at
my website and called "should you home school shy children" if you want to
read it. What it pretty much boiled down to for me, is that children do not
become less shy when they are left in a room full of people. They need to
learn confidence first where they feel safe and then they will feel like
they can open up more with new people. Putting shy children into the school
situation often makes them draw more into themselves because they don't feel
comfortable. Don't send them to school for this reason. :0(
There are many opportunities for socializing if you look around. You will
probably find a whole bunch of people home schooling right near you if you
find someone to connect you to them. They are like the underground
railroad. You would never know they are there unless you know where to
look.
"Everyone goes to school, you did, your husband did, "I" did, and we all did
fine,
It depends on what you consider fine. I got great grades. I learned how to
take tests and was very good at it. I retained only the stuff that
interested me which is what you children will do whether they go to school
or are schooled at home. Unschooling is following their interests so they
have the greatest chance to retain what they learn as it all interests them.
Also, It took me over ten years to get back my self esteem that was lost in
school. It isn't on my report card, but it is part of me. I hated all the
fakeness. I never felt comfortable being anyone but myself and so I didn't
fit in very well.
why go against the norm" "you do not have a teaching degree, how far do
you think you teach them, if you do not know all the subjects?"
Heck, if you went to school you should be able to teach them everything you
learned :0) Of course if you didn't retain it then why are you even
worried about teaching it to your kids. What did you learn in school that
you use every day still? Could you have learned it another way? How much
did you forget and does that effect your life now?
"aren't you
worried about college?"
If your kids want to go to college, they can find a way. If they have to
work at it to go at least they won't drink themselves silly for the first
two years.
I've never really been a "stand
up and speak for yourself" type person,
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Me too! I just let my life speak for itself. The only people that I discuss
unschooling with are the ones who ask and seriously want to know. The
others I just blow off. If they ask how the home schooling is going. I
just say "Great! We love the lifestyle!" That is all they need to know
even though I feel somewhat like a liar saying it because we DON'T DO
SCHOOL!!!! If you interact with your kids, you will see what their
interests are and you can help them to find the materials they want to
further their interests. I like the word facilitator. I am my children's
facilitator.
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
Shannon Brophy
I read lots of books going into homeschooling and unschooling.It seemed to
give me faith in kids learning. Having dh meet older homeschooled kids can
be convincing. Do they seem like socially maladjusted individuals who know
nothing? Usually homeschooled kids don't. They seem impressive in that they
are willing to talk to adults and know what their passions are. I get the
question "Are you going to do this with other people or what?" I feel like
saying sarcastically,"No, I am planning on sealing him in a mayonnaise jar
and have no contact with the world."
Think of schools- they don't usually allow much interaction between kids.
Most talking is by the teacher. Friendships can form but bullying happens
too.Not the most kind and gentle place. Friendships can happen outside of
school, and it needn't be expensive ballet classes. Being in the world means
that children see everyday life and learn to interact with different ages,
genders, classes, and cultures of people. A family at a homeschool intro
meeting I went to told about volunteering to teach reading to foreign
students and that seemed like one example of a wonderful opportunity.
My 4 year old has surpassed my knowledge of lots of things already. It has
made me get interested and learn about stuff I didn't know already. No
teacher can know it all, but a parent can guide a child to find information
he or she is interested in. Read books, notice passions, get materials. Your
little ones will learn.
When the material gets too tough, you can learn things together, and you can
just hand over resources. You can also call on other people to be mentors
for your kids.
If they want to learn something, they will. Most kids are curious and want
to learn, to make sense of the world around them.
Shannon
give me faith in kids learning. Having dh meet older homeschooled kids can
be convincing. Do they seem like socially maladjusted individuals who know
nothing? Usually homeschooled kids don't. They seem impressive in that they
are willing to talk to adults and know what their passions are. I get the
question "Are you going to do this with other people or what?" I feel like
saying sarcastically,"No, I am planning on sealing him in a mayonnaise jar
and have no contact with the world."
Think of schools- they don't usually allow much interaction between kids.
Most talking is by the teacher. Friendships can form but bullying happens
too.Not the most kind and gentle place. Friendships can happen outside of
school, and it needn't be expensive ballet classes. Being in the world means
that children see everyday life and learn to interact with different ages,
genders, classes, and cultures of people. A family at a homeschool intro
meeting I went to told about volunteering to teach reading to foreign
students and that seemed like one example of a wonderful opportunity.
My 4 year old has surpassed my knowledge of lots of things already. It has
made me get interested and learn about stuff I didn't know already. No
teacher can know it all, but a parent can guide a child to find information
he or she is interested in. Read books, notice passions, get materials. Your
little ones will learn.
When the material gets too tough, you can learn things together, and you can
just hand over resources. You can also call on other people to be mentors
for your kids.
If they want to learn something, they will. Most kids are curious and want
to learn, to make sense of the world around them.
Shannon
Angela
There are support groups all around. I would check on-line and see what you
can find. Once you have found a live person they will probably be able to
introduce you to many other home schoolers who are available days to meet
with. Good Luck.
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
This mirrors a lot of my concerns. I'm at home with my 4 year old
daughter since my wife's job brings in more than I would be able to,
but I'm not particularly outgoing and there aren't other kids about
JJ's age in the neighborhood, so we do worry about socialization. We
also go to the park and to story time at the library, so she does get
to interact/play with other kids, but there's not the regular contact
with a set of friends yet (we're working on that).
--Pete
--
Pete Schult Stay at home Parent
http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/schult/default.html
mailto:schult@...
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
can find. Once you have found a live person they will probably be able to
introduce you to many other home schoolers who are available days to meet
with. Good Luck.
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
This mirrors a lot of my concerns. I'm at home with my 4 year old
daughter since my wife's job brings in more than I would be able to,
but I'm not particularly outgoing and there aren't other kids about
JJ's age in the neighborhood, so we do worry about socialization. We
also go to the park and to story time at the library, so she does get
to interact/play with other kids, but there's not the regular contact
with a set of friends yet (we're working on that).
--Pete
--
Pete Schult Stay at home Parent
http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/schult/default.html
mailto:schult@...
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dennis/Laurie Brown
Don't sweat it! It will come with time and without a lot of effort.
I have health problems that have me pretty close to home bound. We
homeschool our 12 yr old son. As my health has deteriorated over the last
couple of years, I have worried some about his opportunities to get to know
people. You know what? He is quite friendly and outgoing. Waves at people
as we are driving by. Converses with anyone we meet at the store or other
outings, etc. Lack of social skills is NOT a problem! He is a charming and
polite boy. (So far...shhh...13 is just around the corner! <G>)
Friends and other relationships will develop from your normal every day
routines...whatever that is! In your examples, you (and your DD) will get
to know others at story time or at the park and make friends or at least
passing acquaintances.
When my DS was younger, he actually met and made a great pal in the line
waiting to buy stamps at the post office! He and another boy about his age
hit it off so well that his mother and I made arrangements to meet again for
a play date and things went from there. Turned out to be a good experience.
What has surprised me over the years is that this was not the only time
something like this happened.
What thrills me is to watch DS as he interacts with adults or older youth.
It is wonderful to see that he is able to follow the conversation about many
varied topics. He knows how to express interest in subjects other people
want to share with him and he knows how to share his interests with others.
Being 'isolated' has not hurt him. It has influenced the type of people he
has interactions with (he may know more about hospitals, doctors, physical
therapists, chiropractors, or other medical specialties than most boys his
age, for instance). But when you stop and think about it, isn't the life
experience of every child unique to that child?
Just had to share,
Eiraul
Brownville77@...
I have health problems that have me pretty close to home bound. We
homeschool our 12 yr old son. As my health has deteriorated over the last
couple of years, I have worried some about his opportunities to get to know
people. You know what? He is quite friendly and outgoing. Waves at people
as we are driving by. Converses with anyone we meet at the store or other
outings, etc. Lack of social skills is NOT a problem! He is a charming and
polite boy. (So far...shhh...13 is just around the corner! <G>)
Friends and other relationships will develop from your normal every day
routines...whatever that is! In your examples, you (and your DD) will get
to know others at story time or at the park and make friends or at least
passing acquaintances.
When my DS was younger, he actually met and made a great pal in the line
waiting to buy stamps at the post office! He and another boy about his age
hit it off so well that his mother and I made arrangements to meet again for
a play date and things went from there. Turned out to be a good experience.
What has surprised me over the years is that this was not the only time
something like this happened.
What thrills me is to watch DS as he interacts with adults or older youth.
It is wonderful to see that he is able to follow the conversation about many
varied topics. He knows how to express interest in subjects other people
want to share with him and he knows how to share his interests with others.
Being 'isolated' has not hurt him. It has influenced the type of people he
has interactions with (he may know more about hospitals, doctors, physical
therapists, chiropractors, or other medical specialties than most boys his
age, for instance). But when you stop and think about it, isn't the life
experience of every child unique to that child?
Just had to share,
Eiraul
Brownville77@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Schult" <schult@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: May 18, 2001 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: First grade - part II (long)
> This mirrors a lot of my concerns. I'm at home with my 4 year old
> daughter since my wife's job brings in more than I would be able to,
> but I'm not particularly outgoing and there aren't other kids about
> JJ's age in the neighborhood, so we do worry about socialization. We
> also go to the park and to story time at the library, so she does get
> to interact/play with other kids, but there's not the regular contact
> with a set of friends yet (we're working on that).
>
> --Pete
Dennis/Laurie Brown
Excellent points and interaction in a school setting is quickly becoming
ever less and less. Many schools have done away with any recess time for
all but the youngest students. They are definitely not encouraged to
interact with each other in class, so where are they going to have all these
greatly touted socializing opportunities?
(It amazes me that I was actually concerned about this when we began this
adventure! I really can relate. I remember being quite concerned. Now, I
just shake my head at my naivete (sp?)!)
Trust yourself.
ever less and less. Many schools have done away with any recess time for
all but the youngest students. They are definitely not encouraged to
interact with each other in class, so where are they going to have all these
greatly touted socializing opportunities?
(It amazes me that I was actually concerned about this when we began this
adventure! I really can relate. I remember being quite concerned. Now, I
just shake my head at my naivete (sp?)!)
Trust yourself.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Brophy" <shannon@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: May 18, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: First grade - part II (long)
>
> Think of schools- they don't usually allow much interaction between kids.
> Most talking is by the teacher. Friendships can form but bullying happens
> too.Not the most kind and gentle place.