RE: Brain atrophy/studies
ambersand
I'm ready to jump in with my 2 pennies....
I've studied all of these studies and the people/groups doing all these studies, and my study of the studies been studied is...
Most are full of S***!!!
I gave up long ago taking any and all of these "studies" seriously. They fall in the same group with surveys - they will all come out with results that the person/group initiating the study/survey wants. It's pretty simple. What scientist/professional in their field is going to publish a study that contradicts their own theory or makes themselves look like a fool or is contrary to their own way of life and parenting style? NONE. A professional physcologist raising a child using whatever "method" is going to produce a study proving this is the best/only way to be a successful parent.
Studies/surveys set out to prove the "one-size-fits-all."
It was very natural for my guys to say "please" and "thank you." I have had fights over who got to vacuum or mop. I DID insist that my 9yo clean his room today and I am waiting until dad gets home because my sons' priorities for the rest of the day are just as important as me running up to the store. And I will most likely send them off to bed tonight, they can read, listen to music or a book on tape, whatever so long as we can all have quiet, because I'm important too, and I like to read at night.
I didn't mean to ramble but I get so SICK of one study after another been sited to show us all what a lousy life we are living or how we'd better change quick or we are going to ruin our health, children, finances, etc. Only to have another claim the opposite or tell us to do something different. Then again if I ever cared about "studies" I wouldn't "risk" homeschooling much less unschooling.
Kandi
I've studied all of these studies and the people/groups doing all these studies, and my study of the studies been studied is...
Most are full of S***!!!
I gave up long ago taking any and all of these "studies" seriously. They fall in the same group with surveys - they will all come out with results that the person/group initiating the study/survey wants. It's pretty simple. What scientist/professional in their field is going to publish a study that contradicts their own theory or makes themselves look like a fool or is contrary to their own way of life and parenting style? NONE. A professional physcologist raising a child using whatever "method" is going to produce a study proving this is the best/only way to be a successful parent.
Studies/surveys set out to prove the "one-size-fits-all."
It was very natural for my guys to say "please" and "thank you." I have had fights over who got to vacuum or mop. I DID insist that my 9yo clean his room today and I am waiting until dad gets home because my sons' priorities for the rest of the day are just as important as me running up to the store. And I will most likely send them off to bed tonight, they can read, listen to music or a book on tape, whatever so long as we can all have quiet, because I'm important too, and I like to read at night.
I didn't mean to ramble but I get so SICK of one study after another been sited to show us all what a lousy life we are living or how we'd better change quick or we are going to ruin our health, children, finances, etc. Only to have another claim the opposite or tell us to do something different. Then again if I ever cared about "studies" I wouldn't "risk" homeschooling much less unschooling.
Kandi
Judie C. Rall
> What was the point of this conversation?The point is that there is a particular, mainstream way of looking at
>
> Eileen
life, that most people believe and adhere to, which is not reality for
everyone. If someone wants to believe and embrace that way,
that's fine. But it's not reality for everyone. I personally believe we
create our own reality, so what the studies say is irrelevant. Yes, I
think the studies are not valid, because the whole scientific method
is not valid. That's my opinion, nobody else has to agree. If those
studies validate your reality, by all means, believe in them. But
they don't validate my reality, so I believe them to be in error. To
each his own.
There is NOT one truth which is truth for everyone.
Judie C. Rall
Find out how I developed financial freedom at:
http://www.angelfire.com/biz3/gatheringplace/financialcassette.html
Eileen M.
By all means, let us throw out all studies that do not
support our own personally held beliefs. Let us do
away with studies altogether, because they can be
interpreted to show that 'one size fits all' and used
to prove a particular theory (it could not be that
*some* studies might actually attempt to increase
understanding or knowledge); let us instead hold up
our own personal experiences as unbiased proof that
*our* particular theory is the one size that *does*,
or at least *should*, fit all. Let us also throw out
all definitions of words and terms, because they are
simply semantics rather than Truths. Let us assume
that those who disagree with us fall into the extreme
end of a range of behavior and demonize them, so that
we do not have to listen to what they say.
What was the point of this conversation?
Eileen
"In the province of the mind, what one believes to be
true either is true or becomes true." - John Lilly
--- ambersand <ambersand@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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support our own personally held beliefs. Let us do
away with studies altogether, because they can be
interpreted to show that 'one size fits all' and used
to prove a particular theory (it could not be that
*some* studies might actually attempt to increase
understanding or knowledge); let us instead hold up
our own personal experiences as unbiased proof that
*our* particular theory is the one size that *does*,
or at least *should*, fit all. Let us also throw out
all definitions of words and terms, because they are
simply semantics rather than Truths. Let us assume
that those who disagree with us fall into the extreme
end of a range of behavior and demonize them, so that
we do not have to listen to what they say.
What was the point of this conversation?
Eileen
"In the province of the mind, what one believes to be
true either is true or becomes true." - John Lilly
--- ambersand <ambersand@...> wrote:
> I'm ready to jump in with my 2 pennies....__________________________________________________
>
> I've studied all of these studies and the
> people/groups doing all these studies, and my study
> of the studies been studied is...
>
> Most are full of S***!!!
>
> I gave up long ago taking any and all of these
> "studies" seriously. They fall in the same group
> with surveys - they will all come out with results
> that the person/group initiating the study/survey
> wants. It's pretty simple. What
> scientist/professional in their field is going to
> publish a study that contradicts their own theory or
> makes themselves look like a fool or is contrary to
> their own way of life and parenting style? NONE. A
> professional physcologist raising a child using
> whatever "method" is going to produce a study
> proving this is the best/only way to be a successful
> parent.
>
> Studies/surveys set out to prove the
> "one-size-fits-all."
>
> It was very natural for my guys to say "please" and
> "thank you." I have had fights over who got to
> vacuum or mop. I DID insist that my 9yo clean his
> room today and I am waiting until dad gets home
> because my sons' priorities for the rest of the day
> are just as important as me running up to the store.
> And I will most likely send them off to bed
> tonight, they can read, listen to music or a book on
> tape, whatever so long as we can all have quiet,
> because I'm important too, and I like to read at
> night.
>
> I didn't mean to ramble but I get so SICK of one
> study after another been sited to show us all what a
> lousy life we are living or how we'd better change
> quick or we are going to ruin our health, children,
> finances, etc. Only to have another claim the
> opposite or tell us to do something different. Then
> again if I ever cared about "studies" I wouldn't
> "risk" homeschooling much less unschooling.
>
> Kandi
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
kate mcdaniel
Kandi,
Just FYI - one of the ladies in the beginning of the discussion asked for
specific resources - the other was providing that information. We all
should remember that opinions vary.
Just FYI - one of the ladies in the beginning of the discussion asked for
specific resources - the other was providing that information. We all
should remember that opinions vary.
On Wed, 16 May 2001 16:10:21 EDT, [email protected] wrote:
> I'm ready to jump in with my 2 pennies....
>
> I've studied all of these studies and the people/groups doing all these
studies, and my study of the studies been studied is...
>
> Most are full of S***!!!
>
> I gave up long ago taking any and all of these "studies" seriously. They
fall in the same group with surveys - they will all come out with results
that the person/group initiating the study/survey wants. It's pretty
simple. What scientist/professional in their field is going to publish a
study that contradicts their own theory or makes themselves look like a fool
or is contrary to their own way of life and parenting style? NONE. A
professional physcologist raising a child using whatever "method" is going
to produce a study proving this is the best/only way to be a successful
parent.
>
> Studies/surveys set out to prove the "one-size-fits-all."
>
> It was very natural for my guys to say "please" and "thank you." I have
had fights over who got to vacuum or mop. I DID insist that my 9yo clean
his room today and I am waiting until dad gets home because my sons'
priorities for the rest of the day are just as important as me running up to
the store. And I will most likely send them off to bed tonight, they can
read, listen to music or a book on tape, whatever so long as we can all have
quiet, because I'm important too, and I like to read at night.
>
> I didn't mean to ramble but I get so SICK of one study after another been
sited to show us all what a lousy life we are living or how we'd better
change quick or we are going to ruin our health, children, finances, etc.
Only to have another claim the opposite or tell us to do something
different. Then again if I ever cared about "studies" I wouldn't "risk"
homeschooling much less unschooling.
>
> Kandi
_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
Betsy Hill
>I gave up long ago taking any and all of these "studies" seriously. Theyfall in
>the same group with surveys - they will all come out with results that theI have to admit I'm highly suspicious of the new study in the news this
>person/group initiating the study/survey wants.
week that stated that more Americans should be taking cholesterol-lowering
drugs. I only heard a snippet from the TV and not much detail, but it's
easy to imagine that the research was done (or funded) by the company that
makes the drug.
Betsy
Betsy Hill
> Then again if I ever cared about "studies" I wouldn't "risk"homeschooling
>much less unschooling.I've noticed that the anti-homeschooling quotes from school officials in
articles about h.s. almost never cite any research. They just state their
wacky opinions and the reporter presents it as worthy because of the
speaker's credentials. And some of the things the Ed. folks say in these
articles are pretty far-fetched.
Betsy
[email protected]
There was also a report that Americans are consuming more calories but
fewer vitamins and minerals because of our food choices. Do ya think
there could be a connection between our food choices and our cholesterol
levels?? (Duh!)
Mary Ellen
cholesterol-lowering drugs. I only heard a snippet from the TV and not
much detail, but it's easy to imagine that the research was done (or
funded) by the company that makes the drug.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fewer vitamins and minerals because of our food choices. Do ya think
there could be a connection between our food choices and our cholesterol
levels?? (Duh!)
Mary Ellen
>>>>I have to admit I'm highly suspicious of the new study in the newsthis week that stated that more Americans should be taking
cholesterol-lowering drugs. I only heard a snippet from the TV and not
much detail, but it's easy to imagine that the research was done (or
funded) by the company that makes the drug.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim
And besides, no one family is exactly the same, no child behaves in exactly the same way, so how can you say, the best for this group is........blah, blah, blah. In order for a study to be proven, or even come close to it, takes many, many years and the family structure and society in general are so dynamic. What was good for our grandparents are sooooo not good for us!
It seems to me that anyone still hanging on to the control issue is not getting the essence of nonschooling as it applies to life.
Kim
From: "ambersand" <ambersand@...>
Subject: RE: Brain atrophy/studies
I gave up long ago taking any and all of these "studies" seriously. They fall in the same group with surveys - they will all come out with results that the person/group initiating the study/survey wants. It's pretty simple. What scientist/professional in their field is going to publish a study that contradicts their own theory or makes themselves look like a fool or is contrary to their own way of life and parenting style? NONE. A professional physcologist raising a child using whatever "method" is going to produce a study proving this is the best/only way to be a successful parent.
Studies/surveys set out to prove the "one-size-fits-all."
I didn't mean to ramble but I get so SICK of one study after another been sited to show us all what a lousy life we are living or how we'd better change quick or we are going to ruin our health, children, finances, etc. Only to have another claim the opposite or tell us to do something different. Then again if I ever cared about "studies" I wouldn't "risk" homeschooling much less unschooling.
Kandi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It seems to me that anyone still hanging on to the control issue is not getting the essence of nonschooling as it applies to life.
Kim
From: "ambersand" <ambersand@...>
Subject: RE: Brain atrophy/studies
I gave up long ago taking any and all of these "studies" seriously. They fall in the same group with surveys - they will all come out with results that the person/group initiating the study/survey wants. It's pretty simple. What scientist/professional in their field is going to publish a study that contradicts their own theory or makes themselves look like a fool or is contrary to their own way of life and parenting style? NONE. A professional physcologist raising a child using whatever "method" is going to produce a study proving this is the best/only way to be a successful parent.
Studies/surveys set out to prove the "one-size-fits-all."
I didn't mean to ramble but I get so SICK of one study after another been sited to show us all what a lousy life we are living or how we'd better change quick or we are going to ruin our health, children, finances, etc. Only to have another claim the opposite or tell us to do something different. Then again if I ever cared about "studies" I wouldn't "risk" homeschooling much less unschooling.
Kandi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Geez, Louise, I'm beginning to think I've logged onto the list for group
therapy of folks that had crummy childhoods. Maybe the folks hanging onto
things aren't
those that think there should be some boundaries but those hanging onto the
past. IMHO, too many folks are spending way too much time "smelling the bad
smells" and seeing the half-EMPTY glass instead of remembering and keeping
close the positives and looking at the half-FULL glass.
And, we seem to be back to all encompassing generalities which are sooooo
not true! Perhaps what was good for "your" grandparents" is not good for
you, but it
has now been proven that quite a few of the things some of our grandparents
did were far superior to what we are doing now and are good for us.
Processed foods being just one of many.
That all encompassing statement implies that all "grandparents" of a certain
generation were authoritarian beasts who thought torturing children was the
only way to raise them. Just ain't so!
My grandfathers (b. 1866, 1894, 1903, 1905) and grandmothers (b. 1888, 1894,
1906) were probably a heck of a lot more liberated than quite a few of the
folks here on this list (certainly less ridgid and more able to see "gray")
and way ahead of their times. None of my mother's brothers and sisters were
ever spanked, they were pulled out of p.s. when they complained (guess I
came by that one naturally <g>) about the treatment, and they were all
allowed to follow their own interests regardless of gender. My father was
an only child and, quite frankly,
spoiled rotten. My stepdad had two brothers and he and they all grew up in
a "relaxed" house with few if any of the contraints that I continually hear
folks talking about during that era. They also were allowed, even
encouraged, to be individuals which probably explains why one is a Steve
McQueen look alike and keeps up with Jack LaLane (skin diving, motorcycle
riding, sailing, weight-lifting still when he has passed the age of 70), was
a regional manager for a Fortune 500 company and a federal contractor who
has retired with all the toys, one is a pastor who uses his home as a
shelter to raise abused children and one is a coupe driving and Harley
riding biker who lives on a reservation.
Personally, I have memories of horrible things that happened when I was a
child--when I was 3, some south end of a donkey deliberately swerved his car
to hit and kill my dog not a yard from my feet. I went to a school in one
of the worst ghettos in the U.S. I was discriminated against and racially
harassed. I saw my aunt beat up by her abusive, alcoholic husband and
subsequently die--I was there when she was given the last rites (age 5).
I don't *hang onto* those memories. They are still there but they don't
control how I live my life and I don't allow them to warp my world. They
were lessons to be learned from.
What influences my life is memories of a father who read to us each night.
A mother who stayed up late at night to make all the outfits I wore to dance
recitals and competitions after working all day. Walking with my
grandfather and climbing up to the top of the Carson Manson to see
"forever." Grampa Harry always having rootbeer and ice cream in the fridge
when I came to visit because that was my favorite. Grampa Charlie spending
hours and hours patiently teaching us how to fly fish (and believe me it
took patience to teach very small children to fly fish). Gramma teaching us
how to make "bread," telling us what a great job we did and only years later
realising that we didn't do anything but make a major mess in her kitchen.
Having teenage/early 20's uncles that took time out of their life to haul us
little kids all over the place, play music for us and generally not treat us
like the
pests we really were. Gramma Dorothy who didn't think we should be deprived
of experiences just because some folks might think they were dangerous (have
you ever fed bananas to a panther?).
No, in this instance, your statement should have been "what was good for
*my* (your) grandparents is soooo not good for *us* (you and your family,
not the quantitative *us* as in folks in general)!
Lynda
therapy of folks that had crummy childhoods. Maybe the folks hanging onto
things aren't
those that think there should be some boundaries but those hanging onto the
past. IMHO, too many folks are spending way too much time "smelling the bad
smells" and seeing the half-EMPTY glass instead of remembering and keeping
close the positives and looking at the half-FULL glass.
And, we seem to be back to all encompassing generalities which are sooooo
not true! Perhaps what was good for "your" grandparents" is not good for
you, but it
has now been proven that quite a few of the things some of our grandparents
did were far superior to what we are doing now and are good for us.
Processed foods being just one of many.
That all encompassing statement implies that all "grandparents" of a certain
generation were authoritarian beasts who thought torturing children was the
only way to raise them. Just ain't so!
My grandfathers (b. 1866, 1894, 1903, 1905) and grandmothers (b. 1888, 1894,
1906) were probably a heck of a lot more liberated than quite a few of the
folks here on this list (certainly less ridgid and more able to see "gray")
and way ahead of their times. None of my mother's brothers and sisters were
ever spanked, they were pulled out of p.s. when they complained (guess I
came by that one naturally <g>) about the treatment, and they were all
allowed to follow their own interests regardless of gender. My father was
an only child and, quite frankly,
spoiled rotten. My stepdad had two brothers and he and they all grew up in
a "relaxed" house with few if any of the contraints that I continually hear
folks talking about during that era. They also were allowed, even
encouraged, to be individuals which probably explains why one is a Steve
McQueen look alike and keeps up with Jack LaLane (skin diving, motorcycle
riding, sailing, weight-lifting still when he has passed the age of 70), was
a regional manager for a Fortune 500 company and a federal contractor who
has retired with all the toys, one is a pastor who uses his home as a
shelter to raise abused children and one is a coupe driving and Harley
riding biker who lives on a reservation.
Personally, I have memories of horrible things that happened when I was a
child--when I was 3, some south end of a donkey deliberately swerved his car
to hit and kill my dog not a yard from my feet. I went to a school in one
of the worst ghettos in the U.S. I was discriminated against and racially
harassed. I saw my aunt beat up by her abusive, alcoholic husband and
subsequently die--I was there when she was given the last rites (age 5).
I don't *hang onto* those memories. They are still there but they don't
control how I live my life and I don't allow them to warp my world. They
were lessons to be learned from.
What influences my life is memories of a father who read to us each night.
A mother who stayed up late at night to make all the outfits I wore to dance
recitals and competitions after working all day. Walking with my
grandfather and climbing up to the top of the Carson Manson to see
"forever." Grampa Harry always having rootbeer and ice cream in the fridge
when I came to visit because that was my favorite. Grampa Charlie spending
hours and hours patiently teaching us how to fly fish (and believe me it
took patience to teach very small children to fly fish). Gramma teaching us
how to make "bread," telling us what a great job we did and only years later
realising that we didn't do anything but make a major mess in her kitchen.
Having teenage/early 20's uncles that took time out of their life to haul us
little kids all over the place, play music for us and generally not treat us
like the
pests we really were. Gramma Dorothy who didn't think we should be deprived
of experiences just because some folks might think they were dangerous (have
you ever fed bananas to a panther?).
No, in this instance, your statement should have been "what was good for
*my* (your) grandparents is soooo not good for *us* (you and your family,
not the quantitative *us* as in folks in general)!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim" <sinclai@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 12:29 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] RE: Brain atrophy/studies
> And besides, no one family is exactly the same, no child behaves in
exactly the same way, so how can you say, the best for this group
is........blah, blah, blah. In order for a study to be proven, or even come
close to it, takes many, many years and the family structure and society in
general are so dynamic. What was good for our grandparents are sooooo not
good for us!
>
> It seems to me that anyone still hanging on to the control issue is not
getting the essence of nonschooling as it applies to life.
> Kim
Betsy Hill
> SheThanks, Cindy. My mom is getting arthritis, and she is pretty flexible
>told me about a study done and published in the New England Journal of
>Medicine that showed a significant decrease in the severity of pain and
>damage done to rheumatic arthritis sufferers when they ate a vegetarian
>diet (if they went to vegan it was even more benefit). The conclusion
>of the study though was that Americans would not change their diet.
about changing her diet.
I, on the other hand, still fail in my efforts to bypass McDonald's. My
will is weak.
Betsy
Kim
Well I am glad that your life was such a wonderful one.
But my point was that a study cannot be proven or disproved for a long, long
time after many, many studies with the same perameters of that study. And
how many families are the same of several generations ago? Do you raise
your children exactly like your grandparents did?
Times have changed, so how can you rely on a study to tell you how to raise
your kids when the study perameters are constantly changing?
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
Subject: Re: RE: Brain atrophy/studies
generation were authoritarian beasts who thought torturing children was the
only way to raise them. Just ain't so!<<
You are taking my statement out of context. I never once implied that my or
any other grandparent tortured their children. I am saying that there was a
general belief of that era that controlling children was the way to get them
to behave. The authoritarian method of raising children was a lot more
prevalent back then than it is today. That was where the term, "Spare the
rod, spoil the child" came from. A lot of parents have learned from their
parents mistakes (hopefully). It's wonderful that your grandparents were so
lenient, but the fact is that most were not. Just go look at one of your
studies. Oh, wait... your study probably doesn't say that! Well, I bet I
could find one or two that does!
not the quantitative *us* as in folks in general)!<<
Don't tell me what I SHOULD have said. No, I said exactly what I wanted to
say, that in general, the generations of yore were more authoritarian than
they are today. And I happen to think that type of parenting is wrong.
Gee, if the world stayed the same and never changed, if we did exactly as
our parents or grandparents, or great-grandparents, etc. did, where do you
think we would be today? Eating bugs with a stick! We are an intelligent
species that LEARNS from the last generation. Our grandchildren will be
raising their children a lot different that we did. It is called human
evolution. We take what we can from our previous generation and leave what
we don't want.
Kim
But my point was that a study cannot be proven or disproved for a long, long
time after many, many studies with the same perameters of that study. And
how many families are the same of several generations ago? Do you raise
your children exactly like your grandparents did?
Times have changed, so how can you rely on a study to tell you how to raise
your kids when the study perameters are constantly changing?
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
Subject: Re: RE: Brain atrophy/studies
>>That all encompassing statement implies that all "grandparents" of acertain
generation were authoritarian beasts who thought torturing children was the
only way to raise them. Just ain't so!<<
You are taking my statement out of context. I never once implied that my or
any other grandparent tortured their children. I am saying that there was a
general belief of that era that controlling children was the way to get them
to behave. The authoritarian method of raising children was a lot more
prevalent back then than it is today. That was where the term, "Spare the
rod, spoil the child" came from. A lot of parents have learned from their
parents mistakes (hopefully). It's wonderful that your grandparents were so
lenient, but the fact is that most were not. Just go look at one of your
studies. Oh, wait... your study probably doesn't say that! Well, I bet I
could find one or two that does!
>>No, in this instance, your statement should have been "what was good for*my* (your) grandparents is soooo not good for *us* (you and your family,
not the quantitative *us* as in folks in general)!<<
Don't tell me what I SHOULD have said. No, I said exactly what I wanted to
say, that in general, the generations of yore were more authoritarian than
they are today. And I happen to think that type of parenting is wrong.
Gee, if the world stayed the same and never changed, if we did exactly as
our parents or grandparents, or great-grandparents, etc. did, where do you
think we would be today? Eating bugs with a stick! We are an intelligent
species that LEARNS from the last generation. Our grandchildren will be
raising their children a lot different that we did. It is called human
evolution. We take what we can from our previous generation and leave what
we don't want.
Kim
Lynda
I did not send the post with the list of studies. Generalization is not a
good thing, particularly when it villianizes a whole generation. It always
amazes me when homeschoolers and particularly unschoolers do this.
Particularly when to do so is no different than all the studies that several
posters seemed to abhor.
The phrase about spoiling the child is quite a bit older than that, by
hundreds of years. That generation did not invent it, nor the style of
parenting.
Yes, everyone has the right to say whatever they want. However, they can't
expect folks to let it slide when their language useage implies or even
specifically states "all" when what they are stating is an opinion and not a
fact.
Now, for the real biggy. Humans, quite frankly, are really stupid and as a
whole don't learn from their past. I mean, come on, pick up any history
book. The whole thing runs in cycles. Religion, greed, war, religion,
greed, war, over and over
and over again! Humans may be able to communicate in ways that other
species can't, but, if (and it is a really big IF) they are intelligent,
they certainly don't use it! IF they learned from thier past, they would
have learned to live in peace, they would have learned not to harm their own
environment. Humans, in general, are greedy, self-serving beasts that
pontificate about how intelligent they are while continuing to do that which
will eventually harm them.
Just curious, which of your ancestors ate bugs on sticks? <g>
Lynda, whose ancestors ate berries and veggies and then graduated to fish.
good thing, particularly when it villianizes a whole generation. It always
amazes me when homeschoolers and particularly unschoolers do this.
Particularly when to do so is no different than all the studies that several
posters seemed to abhor.
The phrase about spoiling the child is quite a bit older than that, by
hundreds of years. That generation did not invent it, nor the style of
parenting.
Yes, everyone has the right to say whatever they want. However, they can't
expect folks to let it slide when their language useage implies or even
specifically states "all" when what they are stating is an opinion and not a
fact.
Now, for the real biggy. Humans, quite frankly, are really stupid and as a
whole don't learn from their past. I mean, come on, pick up any history
book. The whole thing runs in cycles. Religion, greed, war, religion,
greed, war, over and over
and over again! Humans may be able to communicate in ways that other
species can't, but, if (and it is a really big IF) they are intelligent,
they certainly don't use it! IF they learned from thier past, they would
have learned to live in peace, they would have learned not to harm their own
environment. Humans, in general, are greedy, self-serving beasts that
pontificate about how intelligent they are while continuing to do that which
will eventually harm them.
Just curious, which of your ancestors ate bugs on sticks? <g>
Lynda, whose ancestors ate berries and veggies and then graduated to fish.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim" <sinclai@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] RE: Brain atrophy/studies
> Well I am glad that your life was such a wonderful one.
> But my point was that a study cannot be proven or disproved for a long,
long
> time after many, many studies with the same perameters of that study. And
> how many families are the same of several generations ago? Do you raise
> your children exactly like your grandparents did?
>
> Times have changed, so how can you rely on a study to tell you how to
raise
> your kids when the study perameters are constantly changing?
>
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: RE: Brain atrophy/studies
>
> >>That all encompassing statement implies that all "grandparents" of a
> certain
> generation were authoritarian beasts who thought torturing children was
the
> only way to raise them. Just ain't so!<<
>
> You are taking my statement out of context. I never once implied that my
or
> any other grandparent tortured their children. I am saying that there was
a
> general belief of that era that controlling children was the way to get
them
> to behave. The authoritarian method of raising children was a lot more
> prevalent back then than it is today. That was where the term, "Spare the
> rod, spoil the child" came from. A lot of parents have learned from their
> parents mistakes (hopefully). It's wonderful that your grandparents were
so
> lenient, but the fact is that most were not. Just go look at one of your
> studies. Oh, wait... your study probably doesn't say that! Well, I bet I
> could find one or two that does!
>
>
>
>
> >>No, in this instance, your statement should have been "what was good for
> *my* (your) grandparents is soooo not good for *us* (you and your family,
> not the quantitative *us* as in folks in general)!<<
>
> Don't tell me what I SHOULD have said. No, I said exactly what I wanted
to
> say, that in general, the generations of yore were more authoritarian than
> they are today. And I happen to think that type of parenting is wrong.
>
> Gee, if the world stayed the same and never changed, if we did exactly as
> our parents or grandparents, or great-grandparents, etc. did, where do
you
> think we would be today? Eating bugs with a stick! We are an intelligent
> species that LEARNS from the last generation. Our grandchildren will be
> raising their children a lot different that we did. It is called human
> evolution. We take what we can from our previous generation and leave
what
> we don't want.
> Kim
>
>
>
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