[email protected]

All these posts are making me very sad.

One thing no one has addressed, but the worst to me is the effect on the
siblings.

I really remember how I felt when a brother or sister (usually brother) was
being spanked more than when it was me. It's the same way I feel when dh
spanks my darling wonderful son. :-(

Diane

Eileen M.

If your husband understands that his spanking of your
child is hurtful to *both* of you, then there are
*two* problems here, yes? The spanking is one, and
the disregard for your feelings is another. While I
do not feel that *I* have a right to judge your
husband for his decision, *you* certainly do. Your
feelings on the issue should be at least as important
as his, and should be taken into consideration. Have
you talked to him about your sadness?

Eileen


--- cen46624@... wrote:
> All these posts are making me very sad.
>
> One thing no one has addressed, but the worst to me
> is the effect on the
> siblings.
>
> I really remember how I felt when a brother or
> sister (usually brother) was
> being spanked more than when it was me. It's the
> same way I feel when dh
> spanks my darling wonderful son. :-(
>
> Diane
>


__________________________________________________
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kate mcdaniel

I also remember when my brothers and sisters got spanked. I learned from
their mistakes and did not repeat the crime.
On Mon, 7 May 2001 18:45:30 EDT, [email protected] wrote:

> All these posts are making me very sad.
>
> One thing no one has addressed, but the worst to me is the effect on the
> siblings.
>
> I really remember how I felt when a brother or sister (usually brother)
was
> being spanked more than when it was me. It's the same way I feel when dh
> spanks my darling wonderful son. :-(
>
> Diane





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[email protected]

I remember that sometimes they hadn't "done it," or they'd been set up, or
that the primary person got away with it and they just got caught, or a
variety of other unfairnesses.

:-) Diane

> I also remember when my brothers and sisters got spanked. I learned from
> their mistakes and did not repeat the crime.

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/01 23:39:36, cen46624@... writes:

<< It's the same way I feel when dh
spanks my darling wonderful son. >>

I keep trying to convey this to my husband too. It feels like he's hitting
me too. Kimme

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/8/2001 11:34:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
cen46624@... writes:

<< I also remember when my brothers and sisters got spanked. I learned from
> their mistakes and did not repeat the crime. >>

Did you really? I'm asking in all honesty. I learned to practice deception
and to trust no one because even those who love you the most show anger and
hurt you when you make a mistake. Better to keep all of those inevitable
mistakes carefully hidden. Not a peaceful way to live. Lots of anxiety.

Laura

dawn

On Mon, 7 May 2001, Eileen M. wrote:

> If your husband understands that his spanking of your
> child is hurtful to *both* of you, then there are
> *two* problems here, yes? The spanking is one, and
> the disregard for your feelings is another. While I
>
Ithink there are two other problems as well, and obviously this comes from
my perspective that spanking is harmful and violent: (1) the father, imo,
can't be trusted to protect the child since he, himself, is able and
willing to hurt the child and (2) the child is twice betrayed by the
father's hitting of the child and by the mother's inablity to protect
him/her. I think spanking causes more psychological damage than we as a
socitiey would want to believe. I wouldn't let my husband take my kids
out without proper safety restraints in the car and I would speak to
someone who I knew had unsafte carseats or no carseats and tell them what
the dangers are.
dawn h-s

dawn

> << I also remember when my brothers and sisters got spanked. I learned from
> > their mistakes and did not repeat the crime. >>
>
> Did you really? I'm asking in all honesty. I learned to practice deception
> and to trust no one because even those who love you the most show anger and
> hurt you when you make a mistake. Better to keep all of those inevitable
> mistakes carefully hidden. Not a peaceful way to live. Lots of anxiety.
>
>
yes, this goes back to the short term vs long term objectives. I saw this
in practice today. The child being threatened with being hit was not
learning from his error; he was learning to avoid being hit.

[email protected]

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., parrishml@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/8/2001 11:34:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> cen46624@a... writes:
>
> << I also remember when my brothers and sisters got spanked. I
learned from
> > their mistakes and did not repeat the crime. >>
>
> Did you really? I'm asking in all honesty. I learned to practice
deception
> and to trust no one because even those who love you the most show
anger and
> hurt you when you make a mistake. Better to keep all of those
inevitable
> mistakes carefully hidden. Not a peaceful way to live. Lots of
anxiety.
>
> Laura
*Thank you for posting this - my feelings and experience
exactly. I don't have the relationship with my parents I would like
to have, simply because I'm afraid of them - still! I know they
wouldn't spank me now - they haven't since I was 10 or so, but, I
must admit, I do covet that relationship Valerie and Laurie share. I
never thought it possible before - now that's what I'm reaching for.

Kim Baker

i appologize for my multiple posts. They weren't
comming thru and I thought I was doing something
wrong. Then, BOOM, here they all were! I am sorry!

=====
Kim - Missouri MOM of Dylan(11) Jacob(10) Noah(21 mos)

__________________________________________________
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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/8/01 12:49:21, ravensegg@... writes:

<< If your husband understands that his spanking of your
child is hurtful to *both* of you, then there are
*two* problems here, yes? The spanking is one, and
the disregard for your feelings is another. While I
do not feel that *I* have a right to judge your
husband for his decision, *you* certainly do. Your
feelings on the issue should be at least as important
as his, and should be taken into consideration. Have
you talked to him about your sadness? >>

The answers would be yes and yes. Thanks for the input. Kimme

[email protected]

Yes, I do agree that there are two (or more) problems here. My dh does not
have respect for my parenting decisions. He knows that it is very important
to me that we not hit (spank) our children.

My dh is going through a difficult time personally right now, but also he's
becoming more like his father (not admirable) since the kids came along. In
many ways he's a wonderful dad, but since he's started spanking, it's become
a slippery slope he invokes increasingly (at least in threat) in a variety of
situations that are objectively minor.

I've considered leaving, but I don't think daycare would better for them, and
realistically that's what would happen given my resources. He won't listen to
me or to any expert. His motto is, "see what everyone else is doing and do
something different" but somehow it doesn't apply to spanking. Of course,
since the experts advocate not spanking, that's what everyone's doing, right?

Anyway, sorry so long, it's obviously a sore point for me.

:-) Diane

> If your husband understands that his spanking of your
> child is hurtful to *both* of you, then there are
> *two* problems here, yes? The spanking is one, and
> the disregard for your feelings is another. While I
> do not feel that *I* have a right to judge your
> husband for his decision, *you* certainly do. Your
> feelings on the issue should be at least as important
> as his, and should be taken into consideration. Have
> you talked to him about your sadness?

[email protected]

In a message dated 05/08/2001 10:56:17 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
azhom2000@... writes:


> Then, BOOM, here they all were! I am sorry!
>
>


Yahoo is having problems. It's a pain!

Nance



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eileen M.

I can see why it is. It sounds as though your husband
is unhappy, and visiting that unhappiness on the
entire family. If you cannot leave him, is there a
way to help him with his issues, so that he has more
energy and attention to devote to invest in more
constructive ways to relate to his family? I know
it's not a simple thing, but perhaps looking at it
from a cooperative point of view will give *him* more
room to do the same?

Eileen


--- cen46624@... wrote:

> Anyway, sorry so long, it's obviously a sore point
> for me.
>
> :-) Diane
>


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[email protected]

Yes, we're working on finding solutions to his medical problems, hopefully a
new job in the near future, and have made an offer on a three-bedroom house
that will give him much more space than our present one bedroom apartment.

Thank you for your fedback and caring.

:-) Diane

> If you cannot leave him, is there a
> way to help him with his issues, so that he has more
> energy and attention to devote to invest in more
> constructive ways to relate to his family? I know
> it's not a simple thing, but perhaps looking at it
> from a cooperative point of view will give *him* more
> room to do the same?

Valerie

> *Thank you for posting this - my feelings and experience
> exactly. I don't have the relationship with my parents I would
like
> to have, simply because I'm afraid of them - still! I know they
> wouldn't spank me now - they haven't since I was 10 or so, but, I
> must admit, I do covet that relationship Valerie and Laurie share.
I
> never thought it possible before - now that's what I'm reaching for.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was a bit confused as to who wrote this... It has me in tears. This
is what I was hoping to convey by coming to this list and in writing
my book. We CAN be friends with our kids.

I finally stopped fearing my parents. They are meek and mild and
haven't spanked me since 4th grade, but I feared being myself because
of losing their approval. I finally (with Laurie's help) realized
that my inner turmoil would not stop until I was myself around them.
I do not have their approval, but I have mine and Laurie's. I am
content.

I hope that you have a relationship like ours with your child soon.

love, Valerie