Re: Re:[Unschooling-dotcom] sex in movies was violence in movies.....
Diana Tashjian
I have a harder time deciding how to handle the
sexual and women/men relationship issues. For example, my 8-year-old son is
playing 007 Golden Eye on the Nintendo and my husband mentioned that we should
really watch the movie because he would enjoy the action. But he (my husband)
completely forgot about the women and how James "uses" them - or they use each
other? Anyway, how would ya'll handle this?
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/18/01 10:52:41 AM, diana@... writes:
<< For example, my 8-year-old son is playing 007 Golden Eye on the Nintendo
and my husband mentioned that we should really watch the movie because he
would enjoy the action. But he (my husband) completely forgot about the women
and how James "uses" them - or they use each other? Anyway, how would ya'll
handle this?
That's my memory from love scenes in movies when I was younger, and my
experience with my kids, anyway.
Sandra
<< For example, my 8-year-old son is playing 007 Golden Eye on the Nintendo
and my husband mentioned that we should really watch the movie because he
would enjoy the action. But he (my husband) completely forgot about the women
and how James "uses" them - or they use each other? Anyway, how would ya'll
handle this?
>>I don't think eight year olds get that stuff. It's like it's not there.
That's my memory from love scenes in movies when I was younger, and my
experience with my kids, anyway.
Sandra
Diana Tashjian
They may not "get it" but don't you think that the
attitudes toward women and the attitudes of the women that are portrayed in
these movies and the women-as-sex-objects attitude, don't you think these
attitudes are kind of sucked in by osmosis?
Juli
I do. Even when watching some Disney movie with no
sex, the sexism is terrible. I'm always making these
loud, radical, feminist remarks during movies or even
books we're reading aloud. If I don't pick up on
something, my dh makes the remarks for me! Juli
--- Diana Tashjian <diana@...> wrote:
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
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sex, the sexism is terrible. I'm always making these
loud, radical, feminist remarks during movies or even
books we're reading aloud. If I don't pick up on
something, my dh makes the remarks for me! Juli
--- Diana Tashjian <diana@...> wrote:
> They may not "get it" but don't you think that the=====
> attitudes toward women and the attitudes of the
> women that are portrayed in these movies and the
> women-as-sex-objects attitude, don't you think these
> attitudes are kind of sucked in by osmosis?
>
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 4/18/01 3:53:21 PM, yuliwomie@... writes:
<< I do. Even when watching some Disney movie with no
sex, the sexism is terrible. I'm always making these
loud, radical, feminist remarks during movies or even
books we're reading aloud. If I don't pick up on
something, my dh makes the remarks for me! Juli >>
The worst sexism my kids have come across is in books for kids, I think. The
Happy Hollisters, The Boxcar Children. Sometimes they'll ask a question in a
historical movie, "Why doesn't she just do..." whatever and I'll talk about
how very recently most women have had any rights and choices. I stop and
comment sometimes on books that say "You boys go and find wheels while the
girls make lunch" or whatever.
Sandra
<< I do. Even when watching some Disney movie with no
sex, the sexism is terrible. I'm always making these
loud, radical, feminist remarks during movies or even
books we're reading aloud. If I don't pick up on
something, my dh makes the remarks for me! Juli >>
The worst sexism my kids have come across is in books for kids, I think. The
Happy Hollisters, The Boxcar Children. Sometimes they'll ask a question in a
historical movie, "Why doesn't she just do..." whatever and I'll talk about
how very recently most women have had any rights and choices. I stop and
comment sometimes on books that say "You boys go and find wheels while the
girls make lunch" or whatever.
Sandra
Juli
Right! The Little House books have a lot of sexism.
Plus Ma is really prejudiced against Indians. Pa
isn't, but my kids really think Ma is a bigot. :) Even
in Little Women, Jo is such a "tomboy" just because
she's independent and smart. But it's good, as long as
parents talk to the kids about it, for the kids to see
how people used to think about women. Juli
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
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Plus Ma is really prejudiced against Indians. Pa
isn't, but my kids really think Ma is a bigot. :) Even
in Little Women, Jo is such a "tomboy" just because
she's independent and smart. But it's good, as long as
parents talk to the kids about it, for the kids to see
how people used to think about women. Juli
> The worst sexism my kids have come across is in=====
> books for kids, I think. The
> Happy Hollisters, The Boxcar Children. Sometimes
> they'll ask a question in a
> historical movie, "Why doesn't she just do..."
> whatever and I'll talk about
> how very recently most women have had any rights and
> choices. I stop and
> comment sometimes on books that say "You boys go and
> find wheels while the
> girls make lunch" or whatever.
>
> Sandra
>
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
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Angela
I
disagree that the boxcar children is full of sexism. If the girls
weren't allowed to do boy things and the boys weren't allowed to do girl things,
I would agree, but they do their chores, etc. by choice because of what they
enjoy. Just because a person likes to cook and mother doesn't mean that
they are doing these things because they have to play the role. Do you
have any examples that I might have missed? I have recently read about 20
of them aloud and I didn't notice sexism. After all aren't we all
home with our kids because of our choice to be here. Does that make me any
less of a feminist? I support a women's choice to do with her life as she
pleases, if that is to play a stereotypical role so be
it.
Angela in Maine. Unschooling Mom to two beautiful
daughters. "Play is our brain's favorite way to learn."
Unknown
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Tracy Oldfield
> I have a harder time deciding how to handle the sexual and women/menAfair, Goldeneye's better than the others about this... much ebtter
> relationship issues. For example, my 8-year-old son is playing 007
> Golden Eye on the Nintendo and my husband mentioned that we should
> really watch the movie because he would enjoy the action. But he (my
> husband) completely forgot about the women and how James "uses" them -
> or they use each other? Anyway, how would ya'll handle this?
>
than any of the Roger Moore ones anyway! but still I know what
you mean... I really don't know... I find this very tricky cos I was
extremely sensitive to sexual stuff (even just snogging) on the telly
when I was little, in fact so much so that if i'd been referred to a
child-psych which the school asked my mum to do when I was 6 or
7, I think they could have thought I had been abused... but I have
no memory of ever being sexually abused... just 'aware' from a
very young age... I also became active relatively early... I don't
know, I think it's one of those individual things again. Now the
image of women protrayed is a whole other issue, and I don't have
boys so I really don't know about that...
Tracy
Tracy Oldfield
I do. Even when watching some Disney movie with no
sex, the sexism is terrible. I'm always making these
loud, radical, feminist remarks during movies or even
books we're reading aloud. If I don't pick up on
something, my dh makes the remarks for me! Juli
I do this about parenting stuff, and general
relationship stuff that I don't agree with. Oh and
constantly while the adverts are on!
Tracy
sex, the sexism is terrible. I'm always making these
loud, radical, feminist remarks during movies or even
books we're reading aloud. If I don't pick up on
something, my dh makes the remarks for me! Juli
I do this about parenting stuff, and general
relationship stuff that I don't agree with. Oh and
constantly while the adverts are on!
Tracy
Johanna
that attitude of girls as toys is one thing we
do censor to a degree. My boys need to learn to respect a girl. not use her for
their own selfish desires. On the other hand, I love it when married couples are
portrayed in an intimate light, just not too graphically.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----From: Diana TashjianSent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:35 PMSubject: Re: Re:[Unschooling-dotcom] sex in movies was violence in movies.....They may not "get it" but don't you think that the attitudes toward women and the attitudes of the women that are portrayed in these movies and the women-as-sex-objects attitude, don't you think these attitudes are kind of sucked in by osmosis?
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Johanna
my point of view exactly. I am home with the
kids, love to cook, bake sew, garden. I even can in the summer and fall. I love
to do these things, not because someone forced me into a role. I chose
them. I was quite the tomboy when younger and very headstrong. Usually the
result of someone saying I couldn't do something was "oh yeah, watch
this!" As I have grown, I do what I like, not to prove
something.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----From: AngelaSent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:46 PMSubject: RE: Re:[Unschooling-dotcom] sex in movies was violence in movies.....I disagree that the boxcar children is full of sexism. If the girls weren't allowed to do boy things and the boys weren't allowed to do girl things, I would agree, but they do their chores, etc. by choice because of what they enjoy. Just because a person likes to cook and mother doesn't mean that they are doing these things because they have to play the role. Do you have any examples that I might have missed? I have recently read about 20 of them aloud and I didn't notice sexism. After all aren't we all home with our kids because of our choice to be here. Does that make me any less of a feminist? I support a women's choice to do with her life as she pleases, if that is to play a stereotypical role so be it.Angela in Maine. Unschooling Mom to two beautiful daughters. "Play is our brain's favorite way to learn." Unknown
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
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[email protected]
Sorry--missed this quesiton days ago.
In a message dated 4/18/01 5:51:51 PM, unschooling@... writes:
<< I have recently read about 20 of
them aloud and I didn't notice sexism. >>
The later ones aren't written by the original author. They're formula
mysteries written by someone else.
The very first book (the REAL one) is solidly about what boys and girls
do/can't do, but it was written when that was the reality.
When people discuss sexism in modern movies while keeping their children on a
diet of "classic" literature, I worry. Some conservative Christian
homeschooling families, though, have a different curriculum for the girls and
the boys, so of course they will seek out sexist literature (which they will
not see as "sexist," but proper).
I just expect better of unschoolers.
Sandra
In a message dated 4/18/01 5:51:51 PM, unschooling@... writes:
<< I have recently read about 20 of
them aloud and I didn't notice sexism. >>
The later ones aren't written by the original author. They're formula
mysteries written by someone else.
The very first book (the REAL one) is solidly about what boys and girls
do/can't do, but it was written when that was the reality.
When people discuss sexism in modern movies while keeping their children on a
diet of "classic" literature, I worry. Some conservative Christian
homeschooling families, though, have a different curriculum for the girls and
the boys, so of course they will seek out sexist literature (which they will
not see as "sexist," but proper).
I just expect better of unschoolers.
Sandra
Vaughnde Edwards
I don't try to prevent Naomi from any aspect. Matter of fact, I started reading secular romance novels even the steamy ones at age 12. Now...I don't have any of those in my house anymore. However, I do have Christian romance novels and recently picked one up about Australia...with four stories in it that intertwine with 4 women who end up being related to one another in some form or another. Its really interesting and Naomi has read a little bit of it. She's not a heavy reader right now although she does know that the books are there for her pleasure when she wants to read. She is more the active type now that its spring lol!
Vaughnde Lee
Missoula, Montana
http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... <SandraDodd@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Re:[Unschooling-dotcom] sex in movies was violence in movies.....
Sorry--missed this quesiton days ago.
In a message dated 4/18/01 5:51:51 PM, unschooling@... writes:
<< I have recently read about 20 of
them aloud and I didn't notice sexism. >>
The later ones aren't written by the original author. They're formula
mysteries written by someone else.
The very first book (the REAL one) is solidly about what boys and girls
do/can't do, but it was written when that was the reality.
When people discuss sexism in modern movies while keeping their children on a
diet of "classic" literature, I worry. Some conservative Christian
homeschooling families, though, have a different curriculum for the girls and
the boys, so of course they will seek out sexist literature (which they will
not see as "sexist," but proper).
I just expect better of unschoolers.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vaughnde Lee
Missoula, Montana
http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... <SandraDodd@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Re:[Unschooling-dotcom] sex in movies was violence in movies.....
Sorry--missed this quesiton days ago.
In a message dated 4/18/01 5:51:51 PM, unschooling@... writes:
<< I have recently read about 20 of
them aloud and I didn't notice sexism. >>
The later ones aren't written by the original author. They're formula
mysteries written by someone else.
The very first book (the REAL one) is solidly about what boys and girls
do/can't do, but it was written when that was the reality.
When people discuss sexism in modern movies while keeping their children on a
diet of "classic" literature, I worry. Some conservative Christian
homeschooling families, though, have a different curriculum for the girls and
the boys, so of course they will seek out sexist literature (which they will
not see as "sexist," but proper).
I just expect better of unschoolers.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Simpson
could you tell me more about this book ? my daughter has read a christian romance and loved it and she is fascinated with australia!!!
thanks
tanya
thanks
tanya
>>>>>, I do have Christian romance novels and recently picked one up >>>>about Australia...with four stories in it that intertwine with 4 >>>>women who end up being related to one another in some form or >>>>another.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vaughnde Edwards
Sure I can do that....I picked it up at our local christian bookstore. Its got a picture of the Australian Opera House on the front of it, with boats and down below it says Australia then below that four inspirational love storeis from down under by author Mary Hawkins. It was on sale. Mary Hawkins has written other novels for Heartsong Presents. Four stories:
Abigail loses her fiance' and family in a car accident and accepts a job at a farm in Search for Tomorrow.
Hilda Garrett wanted to find the identity of her birth mother in Search ofr Yesterday.
Beth and her husband Art hope their marriage can be rekindled in Search for Today.
Jean Drew and Dr. Jonathan Howard need another chance in Search for the Star.
I hope that is enough for you. Its a wonderful book and keeps one spellbound...I couldn't put it down until I read all four stories in one night.
Vaughnde Lee
Missoula, Montana
http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Simpson <michigan@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Re:[Unschooling-dotcom] sex in movies was violence in movies.....
could you tell me more about this book ? my daughter has read a christian romance and loved it and she is fascinated with australia!!!
thanks
tanya
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Abigail loses her fiance' and family in a car accident and accepts a job at a farm in Search for Tomorrow.
Hilda Garrett wanted to find the identity of her birth mother in Search ofr Yesterday.
Beth and her husband Art hope their marriage can be rekindled in Search for Today.
Jean Drew and Dr. Jonathan Howard need another chance in Search for the Star.
I hope that is enough for you. Its a wonderful book and keeps one spellbound...I couldn't put it down until I read all four stories in one night.
Vaughnde Lee
Missoula, Montana
http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Simpson <michigan@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Re:[Unschooling-dotcom] sex in movies was violence in movies.....
could you tell me more about this book ? my daughter has read a christian romance and loved it and she is fascinated with australia!!!
thanks
tanya
>>>>>, I do have Christian romance novels and recently picked one up >>>>about Australia...with four stories in it that intertwine with 4 >>>>women who end up being related to one another in some form or >>>>another.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I guess I will have to re-read the first one as I hadn't noticed the sexism in
iit. The first twenty or so books were actually writte by Gerturde Chandler
Warner, the others do say created by GCW.
Angela
iit. The first twenty or so books were actually writte by Gerturde Chandler
Warner, the others do say created by GCW.
Angela
April
I mostly lurk here but thought I'd add my two cents....
I don't know if I'd call the books sexist as much as gender stereotypical.
You know, the boys do the building and protecting while the girls do the
cooking, sewing and cleaning. We enjoy the stories but take time to discuss
how these stereotypes were typical of the era the books were written in, how
gender roles have changed and so on. Sometimes we talk about what the boys
and girls could do differently to solve the problem of the story faster if
they stepped out of their roles. And, on the other hand, I have issues with
some modern stories that assume both parents work full time and the kids go
to school. There are always stereotypes.
April (back to lurking)
-----Original Message-----
From: unschooling@... [mailto:unschooling@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 7:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Box car children
I guess I will have to re-read the first one as I hadn't noticed the
sexism in
iit. The first twenty or so books were actually writte by Gerturde
Chandler
Warner, the others do say created by GCW.
Angela
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know if I'd call the books sexist as much as gender stereotypical.
You know, the boys do the building and protecting while the girls do the
cooking, sewing and cleaning. We enjoy the stories but take time to discuss
how these stereotypes were typical of the era the books were written in, how
gender roles have changed and so on. Sometimes we talk about what the boys
and girls could do differently to solve the problem of the story faster if
they stepped out of their roles. And, on the other hand, I have issues with
some modern stories that assume both parents work full time and the kids go
to school. There are always stereotypes.
April (back to lurking)
-----Original Message-----
From: unschooling@... [mailto:unschooling@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 7:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Box car children
I guess I will have to re-read the first one as I hadn't noticed the
sexism in
iit. The first twenty or so books were actually writte by Gerturde
Chandler
Warner, the others do say created by GCW.
Angela
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
I think worrying about whether old books are sexist or racist or
whatever-ist is no different than censorship and book banning. We read what
we want to read and then discuss it in the context of when it was written
and what has changed. All books are a form of history and are a way to look
at how folks lived in the era in which the books were written. Authors are
inclined to give more clues to what was really going on than what you
generally find in history books.
Lynda
whatever-ist is no different than censorship and book banning. We read what
we want to read and then discuss it in the context of when it was written
and what has changed. All books are a form of history and are a way to look
at how folks lived in the era in which the books were written. Authors are
inclined to give more clues to what was really going on than what you
generally find in history books.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "April" <abmorris@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Box car children
> I mostly lurk here but thought I'd add my two cents....
> I don't know if I'd call the books sexist as much as gender stereotypical.
> You know, the boys do the building and protecting while the girls do the
> cooking, sewing and cleaning. We enjoy the stories but take time to
discuss
> how these stereotypes were typical of the era the books were written in,
how
> gender roles have changed and so on. Sometimes we talk about what the
boys
> and girls could do differently to solve the problem of the story faster if
> they stepped out of their roles. And, on the other hand, I have issues
with
> some modern stories that assume both parents work full time and the kids
go
> to school. There are always stereotypes.
> April (back to lurking)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: unschooling@... [mailto:unschooling@...]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 7:40 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Box car children
>
>
> I guess I will have to re-read the first one as I hadn't noticed the
> sexism in
> iit. The first twenty or so books were actually writte by Gerturde
> Chandler
> Warner, the others do say created by GCW.
>
> Angela
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Johanna
excellent point, April. Some may choose these roles but in the past there was not always a choice. A lot of modern children's literature has lots of fractured families and disrespectful people. Sometimes the gender roles aren't nearly as bad as the rudeness.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: April
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Box car children
I mostly lurk here but thought I'd add my two cents....
I don't know if I'd call the books sexist as much as gender stereotypical.
You know, the boys do the building and protecting while the girls do the
cooking, sewing and cleaning. We enjoy the stories but take time to discuss
how these stereotypes were typical of the era the books were written in, how
gender roles have changed and so on. Sometimes we talk about what the boys
and girls could do differently to solve the problem of the story faster if
they stepped out of their roles. And, on the other hand, I have issues with
some modern stories that assume both parents work full time and the kids go
to school. There are always stereotypes.
April (back to lurking)
-----Original Message-----
From: unschooling@... [mailto:unschooling@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 7:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Box car children
I guess I will have to re-read the first one as I hadn't noticed the
sexism in
iit. The first twenty or so books were actually writte by Gerturde
Chandler
Warner, the others do say created by GCW.
Angela
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Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Samantha Stopple
One of the things I really like about the books is how
resourceful all the children are.
Samantha
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resourceful all the children are.
Samantha
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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Angela
me too! And the grandfather is smart enough to know the children like to do
things on their own and though he could buy whatever he wants, he allows
them to be resourseful.
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
things on their own and though he could buy whatever he wants, he allows
them to be resourseful.
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]