Please advise
yuli womie
This might be a long one, so I understand some of you
might have to skip it. But I'd appreciate any advice
or support from those of you with the kindness and
patience to hear me out.
My dd is 8yo. There's some suspicion she might be
bipolar, but we haven't gotten so far yet as to seek a
diagnosis. Partly that's because I'm appalled at the
idea of her taking medication. Partly it's a learned
mistrust of doctors. Partly it's fear/denial.
Anyway, today's incident, which has me in tears off
and on, concerns her blanket. She has had this special
blanket she calls BB since she was, oh, 2 or 3. It's
very special to her, though it's nothing more than a
raggedy scrap by now. It has to be washed frequently
because she chews on it. We've talked to her about the
dye from the blanket getting into her system (she
sometimes has bright green poop) and about the
bacteria that grow on it from her saliva. She
understands this, but she isn't able to give up the
chewing. She also still sucks her thumb when trying to
sleep or calm herself.
My ds (10yo) asked her today if she would rather give
up BB or the cat. She looked horrified at the thought
of either choice, then said the cat. Ds and I were
shocked, but I realized it wasn't a fair question
because of the completely different functions the cat
and the blanket serve for her. That's like asking me,
would you rather give up books or your friends?
Then ds asked, "Would you rather lose BB or Mama?" She
thought and thought and thought for so long I started
feeling insulted. I said, "Now, really, you don't
know? I'm your Mama!" She replied, "I'm sorry, Mama,
but I reeeeeeally need BB." Ds was horrified and
hugged me and petted my hair. He pressed her and she
shouted, "It's my personality, it's my life,
everything!" And then she wouldn't (or couldn't) say
anything else at all about it.
Now before anyone jumps to the conclusion that we
somehow have a troubled relationship (I'd give up my
dad before I'd give up coffee, but then, he's never
liked me) let me assure you that we are very close,
very open and communicative, very
attachment-parenting. We adore each other. The other
day she woke me with breakfast in bed just because she
wanted to see my pleased surprise.
However, I can't help being hurt. I keep crying. I
tell myself we'll talk this over tomorrow and it'll be
fine. Right now, she's still in her uncommunicative
stage. Dh is out of town for work, and so is my best
friend, and so I don't even have them to turn to for
perspective.
I really think that the reason I'm so teary over this
is NOT that I believe she loves the blanket more than
me. In fact, I've always believed that blankies or
pacifiers or special teddy bears are a symbol of the
mother. I think the reason I'm so teary is that I'm
realizing that, first, the deep need of her comfort
object, and second, the inability to speak after
saying something that probably horrified her as much
as it did me, I'm realizing that I'm scared shitless
that she really is bipolar.
I mean, ONE of the reasons (there are many)
unschooling is so good for her is that if she's (for
example) writing one of her illustrated stories, and
she can't get her letters to line up perfectly and
goes into an uncontrollable fit, she can stop, go to
her room, cuddle up with her blanket and come back to
the story when she's feeling better.
When she was in school (kindergarten and first grade
and the beginning of second) each year, the teachers
started off raving about what a happy, cooperative,
friendly child she was, so well-loved by the other
children, so kind, etc. Then, each year, there came a
time when we got a phone call from the teacher,
wondering if someone had died or if there was a
divorce going on, because Aubrey had suddenly changed
dramatically and was now a sullen, teary,
non-participatory girl who had tantrums and hid from
the other kids at recess. I would assure them there
was no problem, that Aubrey is, in fact a very moody
person, and that this new Aubrey was every bit as much
the "real" Aubrey as the one they first met. Of course
they thought I was covering some family secret or
something. But one day soon, a smiling teacher would
approach me and say maybe Aubrey had been sick or
maybe whatever the problem was had been solved but
they were happy to see Aubrey was back to her "old
self." This cycle would usually occur once, twice, or
maybe three times a school year. There'd be referrals
to the school counselor for various "problems" such as
perfectionism, inability to stop a creative project
when it was time to line up (I know, I can see you
rolling your eyes!)which was called "transition
problems" and so forth. The the school counselor would
feel the sweet thrill of success as Aubrey would
suddenly become sunny and sweet again.
I don't know how to wrap all this up, so I guess I
just won't. I hope someone had the extraordinary
patience to read it all.
Juli, who is tearing up again.
__________________________________________________
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might have to skip it. But I'd appreciate any advice
or support from those of you with the kindness and
patience to hear me out.
My dd is 8yo. There's some suspicion she might be
bipolar, but we haven't gotten so far yet as to seek a
diagnosis. Partly that's because I'm appalled at the
idea of her taking medication. Partly it's a learned
mistrust of doctors. Partly it's fear/denial.
Anyway, today's incident, which has me in tears off
and on, concerns her blanket. She has had this special
blanket she calls BB since she was, oh, 2 or 3. It's
very special to her, though it's nothing more than a
raggedy scrap by now. It has to be washed frequently
because she chews on it. We've talked to her about the
dye from the blanket getting into her system (she
sometimes has bright green poop) and about the
bacteria that grow on it from her saliva. She
understands this, but she isn't able to give up the
chewing. She also still sucks her thumb when trying to
sleep or calm herself.
My ds (10yo) asked her today if she would rather give
up BB or the cat. She looked horrified at the thought
of either choice, then said the cat. Ds and I were
shocked, but I realized it wasn't a fair question
because of the completely different functions the cat
and the blanket serve for her. That's like asking me,
would you rather give up books or your friends?
Then ds asked, "Would you rather lose BB or Mama?" She
thought and thought and thought for so long I started
feeling insulted. I said, "Now, really, you don't
know? I'm your Mama!" She replied, "I'm sorry, Mama,
but I reeeeeeally need BB." Ds was horrified and
hugged me and petted my hair. He pressed her and she
shouted, "It's my personality, it's my life,
everything!" And then she wouldn't (or couldn't) say
anything else at all about it.
Now before anyone jumps to the conclusion that we
somehow have a troubled relationship (I'd give up my
dad before I'd give up coffee, but then, he's never
liked me) let me assure you that we are very close,
very open and communicative, very
attachment-parenting. We adore each other. The other
day she woke me with breakfast in bed just because she
wanted to see my pleased surprise.
However, I can't help being hurt. I keep crying. I
tell myself we'll talk this over tomorrow and it'll be
fine. Right now, she's still in her uncommunicative
stage. Dh is out of town for work, and so is my best
friend, and so I don't even have them to turn to for
perspective.
I really think that the reason I'm so teary over this
is NOT that I believe she loves the blanket more than
me. In fact, I've always believed that blankies or
pacifiers or special teddy bears are a symbol of the
mother. I think the reason I'm so teary is that I'm
realizing that, first, the deep need of her comfort
object, and second, the inability to speak after
saying something that probably horrified her as much
as it did me, I'm realizing that I'm scared shitless
that she really is bipolar.
I mean, ONE of the reasons (there are many)
unschooling is so good for her is that if she's (for
example) writing one of her illustrated stories, and
she can't get her letters to line up perfectly and
goes into an uncontrollable fit, she can stop, go to
her room, cuddle up with her blanket and come back to
the story when she's feeling better.
When she was in school (kindergarten and first grade
and the beginning of second) each year, the teachers
started off raving about what a happy, cooperative,
friendly child she was, so well-loved by the other
children, so kind, etc. Then, each year, there came a
time when we got a phone call from the teacher,
wondering if someone had died or if there was a
divorce going on, because Aubrey had suddenly changed
dramatically and was now a sullen, teary,
non-participatory girl who had tantrums and hid from
the other kids at recess. I would assure them there
was no problem, that Aubrey is, in fact a very moody
person, and that this new Aubrey was every bit as much
the "real" Aubrey as the one they first met. Of course
they thought I was covering some family secret or
something. But one day soon, a smiling teacher would
approach me and say maybe Aubrey had been sick or
maybe whatever the problem was had been solved but
they were happy to see Aubrey was back to her "old
self." This cycle would usually occur once, twice, or
maybe three times a school year. There'd be referrals
to the school counselor for various "problems" such as
perfectionism, inability to stop a creative project
when it was time to line up (I know, I can see you
rolling your eyes!)which was called "transition
problems" and so forth. The the school counselor would
feel the sweet thrill of success as Aubrey would
suddenly become sunny and sweet again.
I don't know how to wrap all this up, so I guess I
just won't. I hope someone had the extraordinary
patience to read it all.
Juli, who is tearing up again.
__________________________________________________
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April
Juli,
Wow.
It's late and I'm tired but just had to do a quick reply. My mom is
bipolar. It's a pain but not the end of the world. And very
treatable in most cases. I'm not one for tons of medication but there's a
time and a place..... though I'm sure there are many who would disagree. I
can only speak from personal experience. It sounds like you are doing a great
job with your daughter. How lucky for her, if she is bipolar (and even if
she isn't) to be in such a safe, nurturing environment. My mom was not so
lucky. Feel free to email me if you want more info.
April
-----Original Message-----This might be a long one, so I understand some of you
From: yuli womie [mailto:yuliwomie@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Please advise
might have to skip it. But I'd appreciate any advice
or support from those of you with the kindness and
patience to hear me out.
My dd is 8yo. There's some suspicion she might be
bipolar, but we haven't gotten so far yet as to seek a
diagnosis. Partly that's because I'm appalled at the
idea of her taking medication. Partly it's a learned
mistrust of doctors. Partly it's fear/denial.
Anyway, today's incident, which has me in tears off
and on, concerns her blanket. She has had this special
blanket she calls BB since she was, oh, 2 or 3. It's
very special to her, though it's nothing more than a
raggedy scrap by now. It has to be washed frequently
because she chews on it. We've talked to her about the
dye from the blanket getting into her system (she
sometimes has bright green poop) and about the
bacteria that grow on it from her saliva. She
understands this, but she isn't able to give up the
chewing. She also still sucks her thumb when trying to
sleep or calm herself.
My ds (10yo) asked her today if she would rather give
up BB or the cat. She looked horrified at the thought
of either choice, then said the cat. Ds and I were
shocked, but I realized it wasn't a fair question
because of the completely different functions the cat
and the blanket serve for her. That's like asking me,
would you rather give up books or your friends?
Then ds asked, "Would you rather lose BB or Mama?" She
thought and thought and thought for so long I started
feeling insulted. I said, "Now, really, you don't
know? I'm your Mama!" She replied, "I'm sorry, Mama,
but I reeeeeeally need BB." Ds was horrified and
hugged me and petted my hair. He pressed her and she
shouted, "It's my personality, it's my life,
everything!" And then she wouldn't (or couldn't) say
anything else at all about it.
Now before anyone jumps to the conclusion that we
somehow have a troubled relationship (I'd give up my
dad before I'd give up coffee, but then, he's never
liked me) let me assure you that we are very close,
very open and communicative, very
attachment-parenting. We adore each other. The other
day she woke me with breakfast in bed just because she
wanted to see my pleased surprise.
However, I can't help being hurt. I keep crying. I
tell myself we'll talk this over tomorrow and it'll be
fine. Right now, she's still in her uncommunicative
stage. Dh is out of town for work, and so is my best
friend, and so I don't even have them to turn to for
perspective.
I really think that the reason I'm so teary over this
is NOT that I believe she loves the blanket more than
me. In fact, I've always believed that blankies or
pacifiers or special teddy bears are a symbol of the
mother. I think the reason I'm so teary is that I'm
realizing that, first, the deep need of her comfort
object, and second, the inability to speak after
saying something that probably horrified her as much
as it did me, I'm realizing that I'm scared shitless
that she really is bipolar.
I mean, ONE of the reasons (there are many)
unschooling is so good for her is that if she's (for
example) writing one of her illustrated stories, and
she can't get her letters to line up perfectly and
goes into an uncontrollable fit, she can stop, go to
her room, cuddle up with her blanket and come back to
the story when she's feeling better.
When she was in school (kindergarten and first grade
and the beginning of second) each year, the teachers
started off raving about what a happy, cooperative,
friendly child she was, so well-loved by the other
children, so kind, etc. Then, each year, there came a
time when we got a phone call from the teacher,
wondering if someone had died or if there was a
divorce going on, because Aubrey had suddenly changed
dramatically and was now a sullen, teary,
non-participatory girl who had tantrums and hid from
the other kids at recess. I would assure them there
was no problem, that Aubrey is, in fact a very moody
person, and that this new Aubrey was every bit as much
the "real" Aubrey as the one they first met. Of course
they thought I was covering some family secret or
something. But one day soon, a smiling teacher would
approach me and say maybe Aubrey had been sick or
maybe whatever the problem was had been solved but
they were happy to see Aubrey was back to her "old
self." This cycle would usually occur once, twice, or
maybe three times a school year. There'd be referrals
to the school counselor for various "problems" such as
perfectionism, inability to stop a creative project
when it was time to line up (I know, I can see you
rolling your eyes!)which was called "transition
problems" and so forth. The the school counselor would
feel the sweet thrill of success as Aubrey would
suddenly become sunny and sweet again.
I don't know how to wrap all this up, so I guess I
just won't. I hope someone had the extraordinary
patience to read it all.
Juli, who is tearing up again.
__________________________________________________
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LisaBugg
Juli, Cry.. okay.. just cry it all out. I wish you were here, it would so
much easier to talk about this in person than online. You're gonna have to
pretend we're at some park with the son shining and the kids are all off
having a good time. Listen to that little voice and come on out of denial.
It's gonna be just fine. Matter of fact it's gonna be BETTER once you look
this thing squarely in the face. Trust me, okay? Take a deep breath, so
it's true we have some issues we have to deal with and then cry. Some of us
will cry too
I have lots and lots of thoughts and ideas and resources. The chewing in
itself is a sign. Many, many Asperger's children chew their clothing. What
you need to di is do a web search on Aspergers, Autism, Tony Atwood, and
bipolar. Read, read read. On the message boards there is a folder for
special needs kids with some just wonderful moms to talk to.Go there and ask
very specific questions, the more specific the better.
Right now I have to go read to my own little girls, but will hold you in our
thoughts tonight. And tomorrow we can start looking this thing in the face.
"kay?
Hugs,
Lisa
No matter what, there's a whole world of support right here, on the loop and
on the boards. ----- Original Message -----
From: "yuli womie" <yuliwomie@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:47 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Please advise
much easier to talk about this in person than online. You're gonna have to
pretend we're at some park with the son shining and the kids are all off
having a good time. Listen to that little voice and come on out of denial.
It's gonna be just fine. Matter of fact it's gonna be BETTER once you look
this thing squarely in the face. Trust me, okay? Take a deep breath, so
it's true we have some issues we have to deal with and then cry. Some of us
will cry too
I have lots and lots of thoughts and ideas and resources. The chewing in
itself is a sign. Many, many Asperger's children chew their clothing. What
you need to di is do a web search on Aspergers, Autism, Tony Atwood, and
bipolar. Read, read read. On the message boards there is a folder for
special needs kids with some just wonderful moms to talk to.Go there and ask
very specific questions, the more specific the better.
Right now I have to go read to my own little girls, but will hold you in our
thoughts tonight. And tomorrow we can start looking this thing in the face.
"kay?
Hugs,
Lisa
No matter what, there's a whole world of support right here, on the loop and
on the boards. ----- Original Message -----
From: "yuli womie" <yuliwomie@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:47 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Please advise
> This might be a long one, so I understand some of you
> might have to skip it. But I'd appreciate any advice
> or support from those of you with the kindness and
> patience to hear me out.
>
> My dd is 8yo. There's some suspicion she might be
> bipolar, but we haven't gotten so far yet as to seek a
> diagnosis. Partly that's because I'm appalled at the
> idea of her taking medication. Partly it's a learned
> mistrust of doctors. Partly it's fear/denial.
>
> Anyway, today's incident, which has me in tears off
> and on, concerns her blanket. She has had this special
> blanket she calls BB since she was, oh, 2 or 3. It's
> very special to her, though it's nothing more than a
> raggedy scrap by now. It has to be washed frequently
> because she chews on it. We've talked to her about the
> dye from the blanket getting into her system (she
> sometimes has bright green poop) and about the
> bacteria that grow on it from her saliva. She
> understands this, but she isn't able to give up the
> chewing. She also still sucks her thumb when trying to
> sleep or calm herself.
>
> My ds (10yo) asked her today if she would rather give
> up BB or the cat. She looked horrified at the thought
> of either choice, then said the cat. Ds and I were
> shocked, but I realized it wasn't a fair question
> because of the completely different functions the cat
> and the blanket serve for her. That's like asking me,
> would you rather give up books or your friends?
>
> Then ds asked, "Would you rather lose BB or Mama?" She
> thought and thought and thought for so long I started
> feeling insulted. I said, "Now, really, you don't
> know? I'm your Mama!" She replied, "I'm sorry, Mama,
> but I reeeeeeally need BB." Ds was horrified and
> hugged me and petted my hair. He pressed her and she
> shouted, "It's my personality, it's my life,
> everything!" And then she wouldn't (or couldn't) say
> anything else at all about it.
>
> Now before anyone jumps to the conclusion that we
> somehow have a troubled relationship (I'd give up my
> dad before I'd give up coffee, but then, he's never
> liked me) let me assure you that we are very close,
> very open and communicative, very
> attachment-parenting. We adore each other. The other
> day she woke me with breakfast in bed just because she
> wanted to see my pleased surprise.
>
> However, I can't help being hurt. I keep crying. I
> tell myself we'll talk this over tomorrow and it'll be
> fine. Right now, she's still in her uncommunicative
> stage. Dh is out of town for work, and so is my best
> friend, and so I don't even have them to turn to for
> perspective.
>
> I really think that the reason I'm so teary over this
> is NOT that I believe she loves the blanket more than
> me. In fact, I've always believed that blankies or
> pacifiers or special teddy bears are a symbol of the
> mother. I think the reason I'm so teary is that I'm
> realizing that, first, the deep need of her comfort
> object, and second, the inability to speak after
> saying something that probably horrified her as much
> as it did me, I'm realizing that I'm scared shitless
> that she really is bipolar.
>
> I mean, ONE of the reasons (there are many)
> unschooling is so good for her is that if she's (for
> example) writing one of her illustrated stories, and
> she can't get her letters to line up perfectly and
> goes into an uncontrollable fit, she can stop, go to
> her room, cuddle up with her blanket and come back to
> the story when she's feeling better.
>
> When she was in school (kindergarten and first grade
> and the beginning of second) each year, the teachers
> started off raving about what a happy, cooperative,
> friendly child she was, so well-loved by the other
> children, so kind, etc. Then, each year, there came a
> time when we got a phone call from the teacher,
> wondering if someone had died or if there was a
> divorce going on, because Aubrey had suddenly changed
> dramatically and was now a sullen, teary,
> non-participatory girl who had tantrums and hid from
> the other kids at recess. I would assure them there
> was no problem, that Aubrey is, in fact a very moody
> person, and that this new Aubrey was every bit as much
> the "real" Aubrey as the one they first met. Of course
> they thought I was covering some family secret or
> something. But one day soon, a smiling teacher would
> approach me and say maybe Aubrey had been sick or
> maybe whatever the problem was had been solved but
> they were happy to see Aubrey was back to her "old
> self." This cycle would usually occur once, twice, or
> maybe three times a school year. There'd be referrals
> to the school counselor for various "problems" such as
> perfectionism, inability to stop a creative project
> when it was time to line up (I know, I can see you
> rolling your eyes!)which was called "transition
> problems" and so forth. The the school counselor would
> feel the sweet thrill of success as Aubrey would
> suddenly become sunny and sweet again.
>
> I don't know how to wrap all this up, so I guess I
> just won't. I hope someone had the extraordinary
> patience to read it all.
>
> Juli, who is tearing up again.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Sonia Ulan
Hi Yuli;
All I can say is "sit tight for now". Aubrey is not so unique to be
paricularly attached to a "lovie" or inanimate object. I have a sister
who was very much like your Aubrey. She too was soooooooooooo
incredibly attached to her blankie I know it caused my mom unending
grief for a lot of years.
(My sister was also a thumb-sucker.) I don't want to spook you but
would you believe she never really did out-grow the thing? Even as a
teen she would enjoy the feel of running her fingers through that
hardly-there and well-worn scrap of a blankie. Literally, it was a
shred of what it was but she still knew where it was if she needed it.
Certainly, her habits with it changed considerably the older she got, to
the point where it was a very occasional quick touch every few weeks,
but I think it was dependable security during an anxious moment. Sure
beats cigarettes! As a 38 year old woman now I do believe she STILL
knows where those bare threads of a scrap could be found if she needed
it! I've seen her suspiciously linger over a wash cloth or two when
folding laundry!!! (Try not to laugh too hysterically) I might add she
is now a completely content, attractive and successful woman who handles
extrememly stressful situations better than most people I know. She
works at the biggest and busiest law firm in town, with one of Canada's
greatest corporate lawyers. So the blankie has not done her any harm.
She did go through a spell of depression during highschool after coming
down with mononucleosis and then again after a sexual assault as an
adult but otherwise has been a strong and vibrant woman. Try not to
worry. The blankie behavior is far more normal than society is willing
to recognize. It is wonderful to hear that you are such a loving and
"attached" mother who is so in touch with her daughter. If she needs
your support in a different way when she is older I know you will be
there for her. You are right to be concerned about how children can
often be over-medicated these days. Maybe the day will come when she
could benefit from medication but I wouldn't think that day is here
yet. If you become truly concerned with moodiness and unhappiness as
time goes on perhaps experimenting with the herbal St. John's Wort could
indicate some change.
I wish you and Aubrey all the best,
Sonia
yuli womie wrote:
All I can say is "sit tight for now". Aubrey is not so unique to be
paricularly attached to a "lovie" or inanimate object. I have a sister
who was very much like your Aubrey. She too was soooooooooooo
incredibly attached to her blankie I know it caused my mom unending
grief for a lot of years.
(My sister was also a thumb-sucker.) I don't want to spook you but
would you believe she never really did out-grow the thing? Even as a
teen she would enjoy the feel of running her fingers through that
hardly-there and well-worn scrap of a blankie. Literally, it was a
shred of what it was but she still knew where it was if she needed it.
Certainly, her habits with it changed considerably the older she got, to
the point where it was a very occasional quick touch every few weeks,
but I think it was dependable security during an anxious moment. Sure
beats cigarettes! As a 38 year old woman now I do believe she STILL
knows where those bare threads of a scrap could be found if she needed
it! I've seen her suspiciously linger over a wash cloth or two when
folding laundry!!! (Try not to laugh too hysterically) I might add she
is now a completely content, attractive and successful woman who handles
extrememly stressful situations better than most people I know. She
works at the biggest and busiest law firm in town, with one of Canada's
greatest corporate lawyers. So the blankie has not done her any harm.
She did go through a spell of depression during highschool after coming
down with mononucleosis and then again after a sexual assault as an
adult but otherwise has been a strong and vibrant woman. Try not to
worry. The blankie behavior is far more normal than society is willing
to recognize. It is wonderful to hear that you are such a loving and
"attached" mother who is so in touch with her daughter. If she needs
your support in a different way when she is older I know you will be
there for her. You are right to be concerned about how children can
often be over-medicated these days. Maybe the day will come when she
could benefit from medication but I wouldn't think that day is here
yet. If you become truly concerned with moodiness and unhappiness as
time goes on perhaps experimenting with the herbal St. John's Wort could
indicate some change.
I wish you and Aubrey all the best,
Sonia
yuli womie wrote:
>
> This might be a long one, so I understand some of you
> might have to skip it. But I'd appreciate any advice
> or support from those of you with the kindness and
> patience to hear me out.
>
> My dd is 8yo. There's some suspicion she might be
> bipolar, but we haven't gotten so far yet as to seek a
> diagnosis. Partly that's because I'm appalled at the
> idea of her taking medication. Partly it's a learned
> mistrust of doctors. Partly it's fear/denial.
>
> Anyway, today's incident, which has me in tears off
> and on, concerns her blanket. She has had this special
> blanket she calls BB since she was, oh, 2 or 3. It's
> very special to her, though it's nothing more than a
> raggedy scrap by now. It has to be washed frequently
> because she chews on it. We've talked to her about the
> dye from the blanket getting into her system (she
> sometimes has bright green poop) and about the
> bacteria that grow on it from her saliva. She
> understands this, but she isn't able to give up the
> chewing. She also still sucks her thumb when trying to
> sleep or calm herself.
>
> My ds (10yo) asked her today if she would rather give
> up BB or the cat. She looked horrified at the thought
> of either choice, then said the cat. Ds and I were
> shocked, but I realized it wasn't a fair question
> because of the completely different functions the cat
> and the blanket serve for her. That's like asking me,
> would you rather give up books or your friends?
>
> Then ds asked, "Would you rather lose BB or Mama?" She
> thought and thought and thought for so long I started
> feeling insulted. I said, "Now, really, you don't
> know? I'm your Mama!" She replied, "I'm sorry, Mama,
> but I reeeeeeally need BB." Ds was horrified and
> hugged me and petted my hair. He pressed her and she
> shouted, "It's my personality, it's my life,
> everything!" And then she wouldn't (or couldn't) say
> anything else at all about it.
>
> Now before anyone jumps to the conclusion that we
> somehow have a troubled relationship (I'd give up my
> dad before I'd give up coffee, but then, he's never
> liked me) let me assure you that we are very close,
> very open and communicative, very
> attachment-parenting. We adore each other. The other
> day she woke me with breakfast in bed just because she
> wanted to see my pleased surprise.
>
> However, I can't help being hurt. I keep crying. I
> tell myself we'll talk this over tomorrow and it'll be
> fine. Right now, she's still in her uncommunicative
> stage. Dh is out of town for work, and so is my best
> friend, and so I don't even have them to turn to for
> perspective.
>
> I really think that the reason I'm so teary over this
> is NOT that I believe she loves the blanket more than
> me. In fact, I've always believed that blankies or
> pacifiers or special teddy bears are a symbol of the
> mother. I think the reason I'm so teary is that I'm
> realizing that, first, the deep need of her comfort
> object, and second, the inability to speak after
> saying something that probably horrified her as much
> as it did me, I'm realizing that I'm scared shitless
> that she really is bipolar.
>
> I mean, ONE of the reasons (there are many)
> unschooling is so good for her is that if she's (for
> example) writing one of her illustrated stories, and
> she can't get her letters to line up perfectly and
> goes into an uncontrollable fit, she can stop, go to
> her room, cuddle up with her blanket and come back to
> the story when she's feeling better.
>
> When she was in school (kindergarten and first grade
> and the beginning of second) each year, the teachers
> started off raving about what a happy, cooperative,
> friendly child she was, so well-loved by the other
> children, so kind, etc. Then, each year, there came a
> time when we got a phone call from the teacher,
> wondering if someone had died or if there was a
> divorce going on, because Aubrey had suddenly changed
> dramatically and was now a sullen, teary,
> non-participatory girl who had tantrums and hid from
> the other kids at recess. I would assure them there
> was no problem, that Aubrey is, in fact a very moody
> person, and that this new Aubrey was every bit as much
> the "real" Aubrey as the one they first met. Of course
> they thought I was covering some family secret or
> something. But one day soon, a smiling teacher would
> approach me and say maybe Aubrey had been sick or
> maybe whatever the problem was had been solved but
> they were happy to see Aubrey was back to her "old
> self." This cycle would usually occur once, twice, or
> maybe three times a school year. There'd be referrals
> to the school counselor for various "problems" such as
> perfectionism, inability to stop a creative project
> when it was time to line up (I know, I can see you
> rolling your eyes!)which was called "transition
> problems" and so forth. The the school counselor would
> feel the sweet thrill of success as Aubrey would
> suddenly become sunny and sweet again.
>
> I don't know how to wrap all this up, so I guess I
> just won't. I hope someone had the extraordinary
> patience to read it all.
>
> Juli, who is tearing up again.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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>
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[email protected]
Juli --
I do not have answers with a capital "A" for you, but I can share some things
about our kids and family that may help.
Our 7yo, Owen, chews his clothes. He chews the sleeves of his shirts and
sweatshirts, mainly. The left sleeves, usually. They get really, really wet,
sometimes to the elbow, and full of holes. He has a precious blankie, that he
chews on as well, but I guess the sleeves are more convenient. :)
Jesse, 8, no longer chews his clothes. (For him it was the neck of his shirts
-- all of them had a hole or two at his breastbone.) He chewed for about a
year.
Now, personality-wise, Owen is sunshine. He is one of the most self-confident
people I have ever met. He sees nothing wrong with chewing on his sleeves. In
his mind, if he's doing it, he must need or want to for some reason, and
that's good enough for him. He isn't sitting in the corner huddled up
chewing, he is running, laughing, playing, watching T.V. -- and chewing.
Jesse is "moody". (Like me.) He can explode or withdraw with frustration. His
"habits" -- continual handwashing, "don't touch my things -- your hands are
dirty!", intense need to possess and collect things -- could be viewed as
odd, I suppose, as could Owen's chewing. But really, it's just them -- part
of their individual little "uniqueness".
I would really hate to see them start to wonder if something is "wrong with
me". To me THAT is much more damaging than Owen's chewing or Jesse's
explosions.
I sucked my thumb until I was about 8. Besides the bad tasting stuff they
used to put on my thumb to discourage me, my dad's favorite tactic was to
make fun of me in front of my younger brother and sister. I tell Owen to chew
on his shirt sleeves as long as he wants to. We have lots of hand-me-downs,
and he won't run out of shirts.
I also feel that "bipolar" is the medical communities next "ADD". Just wait
and watch. It will be the next "popular" dx for kids. Look at what you have
done for your kids already, Juli. You are a strong and protective mother and
you can hunt down answers about the bipolar worries. You'll know in your
heart what is true and right and loving for your daughter. There is nothing
wrong with her having that blanket. There is nothing wrong with the chewing.
And she loves you, of course, she just sounds frightened that someone may
take her blanket away and that the people she loves view her having it as
"wrong" somehow. "Is something wrong with me?" is a question that haunts many
of us from our childhood, and it breaks my heart when a child starts to
wonder this.
You are a good and strong and loving mother. She is your perfect child. You
are so lucky to have each other. Don't let false worries and fear creep in.
Breathe deeply and then start to search for some truth. :)
Finally -- I just cringe when I write a post that sounds "all-knowing" and
full of wisdom. (ugh.) This is just our experience and my thoughts. Take what
sounds right for you and your situation, and TOSS the rest! :)
Love to you and your family,
Laura
I do not have answers with a capital "A" for you, but I can share some things
about our kids and family that may help.
Our 7yo, Owen, chews his clothes. He chews the sleeves of his shirts and
sweatshirts, mainly. The left sleeves, usually. They get really, really wet,
sometimes to the elbow, and full of holes. He has a precious blankie, that he
chews on as well, but I guess the sleeves are more convenient. :)
Jesse, 8, no longer chews his clothes. (For him it was the neck of his shirts
-- all of them had a hole or two at his breastbone.) He chewed for about a
year.
Now, personality-wise, Owen is sunshine. He is one of the most self-confident
people I have ever met. He sees nothing wrong with chewing on his sleeves. In
his mind, if he's doing it, he must need or want to for some reason, and
that's good enough for him. He isn't sitting in the corner huddled up
chewing, he is running, laughing, playing, watching T.V. -- and chewing.
Jesse is "moody". (Like me.) He can explode or withdraw with frustration. His
"habits" -- continual handwashing, "don't touch my things -- your hands are
dirty!", intense need to possess and collect things -- could be viewed as
odd, I suppose, as could Owen's chewing. But really, it's just them -- part
of their individual little "uniqueness".
I would really hate to see them start to wonder if something is "wrong with
me". To me THAT is much more damaging than Owen's chewing or Jesse's
explosions.
I sucked my thumb until I was about 8. Besides the bad tasting stuff they
used to put on my thumb to discourage me, my dad's favorite tactic was to
make fun of me in front of my younger brother and sister. I tell Owen to chew
on his shirt sleeves as long as he wants to. We have lots of hand-me-downs,
and he won't run out of shirts.
I also feel that "bipolar" is the medical communities next "ADD". Just wait
and watch. It will be the next "popular" dx for kids. Look at what you have
done for your kids already, Juli. You are a strong and protective mother and
you can hunt down answers about the bipolar worries. You'll know in your
heart what is true and right and loving for your daughter. There is nothing
wrong with her having that blanket. There is nothing wrong with the chewing.
And she loves you, of course, she just sounds frightened that someone may
take her blanket away and that the people she loves view her having it as
"wrong" somehow. "Is something wrong with me?" is a question that haunts many
of us from our childhood, and it breaks my heart when a child starts to
wonder this.
You are a good and strong and loving mother. She is your perfect child. You
are so lucky to have each other. Don't let false worries and fear creep in.
Breathe deeply and then start to search for some truth. :)
Finally -- I just cringe when I write a post that sounds "all-knowing" and
full of wisdom. (ugh.) This is just our experience and my thoughts. Take what
sounds right for you and your situation, and TOSS the rest! :)
Love to you and your family,
Laura
[email protected]
I had two thoughts after reading your post. The first was that it sounds to
me like your daughter's reaction may be more from feeling like she's being
pushed to give up the blanket than how she separates her attachment to
others. She may be reluctant to admit that it's not as important as any
other loved thing or person for fear it will mean she has to give it up.
The second thought is that it's very hard for children to answer questions
like the one that was asked of her. I think they know instinctively that
it's a test of their loyalty and love and they freeze up. Also, kids are
very close to their emotions. If they aren't "feeling" particularly
affectionate it's hard to "say" it anyway. I make it a point to not ask
questions like this and let them profess their affection on their own, which
is usually when they are "feeling" that way. They'll understand that love is
a constant and can exist independent of their emotions as they mature.
I know it can be very hard but I try to not take what kids say personally. I
know they love me and what they say at times is more about mood than reality.
Kris
me like your daughter's reaction may be more from feeling like she's being
pushed to give up the blanket than how she separates her attachment to
others. She may be reluctant to admit that it's not as important as any
other loved thing or person for fear it will mean she has to give it up.
The second thought is that it's very hard for children to answer questions
like the one that was asked of her. I think they know instinctively that
it's a test of their loyalty and love and they freeze up. Also, kids are
very close to their emotions. If they aren't "feeling" particularly
affectionate it's hard to "say" it anyway. I make it a point to not ask
questions like this and let them profess their affection on their own, which
is usually when they are "feeling" that way. They'll understand that love is
a constant and can exist independent of their emotions as they mature.
I know it can be very hard but I try to not take what kids say personally. I
know they love me and what they say at times is more about mood than reality.
Kris
Erin Sutka
Juli,
This is great
advice, my sister in law has Aspergers and wasn't diagnosed until her late
teens, she has led a very rough life because no one seemed to know what was
going on with her and just kind of shoved her to the side all her life. It
sounds like you are a loving and caring mother and would do anything for your
children. Research exactly what Lisa mentioned and talk to other mothers
that are dealing with this everyday, there is so much support out there and
information. I'm sorry you are going through such a rough time and I wish
I could help more, but I don't know enough about this to really give good
advice!!
Erin
esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>
-----Original Message-----Juli, Cry.. okay.. just cry it all out. I wish you were here, it would so
From: LisaBugg [mailto:LisaBugg@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Please advise
much easier to talk about this in person than online. You're gonna have to
pretend we're at some park with the son shining and the kids are all off
having a good time. Listen to that little voice and come on out of denial.
It's gonna be just fine. Matter of fact it's gonna be BETTER once you look
this thing squarely in the face. Trust me, okay? Take a deep breath, so
it's true we have some issues we have to deal with and then cry. Some of us
will cry too
I have lots and lots of thoughts and ideas and resources. The chewing in
itself is a sign. Many, many Asperger's children chew their clothing. What
you need to di is do a web search on Aspergers, Autism, Tony Atwood, and
bipolar. Read, read read. On the message boards there is a folder for
special needs kids with some just wonderful moms to talk to.Go there and ask
very specific questions, the more specific the better.
Right now I have to go read to my own little girls, but will hold you in our
thoughts tonight. And tomorrow we can start looking this thing in the face.
"kay?
Hugs,
Lisa
No matter what, there's a whole world of support right here, on the loop and
on the boards. ----- Original Message -----
From: "yuli womie" <yuliwomie@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:47 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Please advise
> This might be a long one, so I understand some of you
> might have to skip it. But I'd appreciate any advice
> or support from those of you with the kindness and
> patience to hear me out.
>
> My dd is 8yo. There's some suspicion she might be
> bipolar, but we haven't gotten so far yet as to seek a
> diagnosis. Partly that's because I'm appalled at the
> idea of her taking medication. Partly it's a learned
> mistrust of doctors. Partly it's fear/denial.
>
> Anyway, today's incident, which has me in tears off
> and on, concerns her blanket. She has had this special
> blanket she calls BB since she was, oh, 2 or 3. It's
> very special to her, though it's nothing more than a
> raggedy scrap by now. It has to be washed frequently
> because she chews on it. We've talked to her about the
> dye from the blanket getting into her system (she
> sometimes has bright green poop) and about the
> bacteria that grow on it from her saliva. She
> understands this, but she isn't able to give up the
> chewing. She also still sucks her thumb when trying to
> sleep or calm herself.
>
> My ds (10yo) asked her today if she would rather give
> up BB or the cat. She looked horrified at the thought
> of either choice, then said the cat. Ds and I were
> shocked, but I realized it wasn't a fair question
> because of the completely different functions the cat
> and the blanket serve for her. That's like asking me,
> would you rather give up books or your friends?
>
> Then ds asked, "Would you rather lose BB or Mama?" She
> thought and thought and thought for so long I started
> feeling insulted. I said, "Now, really, you don't
> know? I'm your Mama!" She replied, "I'm sorry, Mama,
> but I reeeeeeally need BB." Ds was horrified and
> hugged me and petted my hair. He pressed her and she
> shouted, "It's my personality, it's my life,
> everything!" And then she wouldn't (or couldn't) say
> anything else at all about it.
>
> Now before anyone jumps to the conclusion that we
> somehow have a troubled relationship (I'd give up my
> dad before I'd give up coffee, but then, he's never
> liked me) let me assure you that we are very close,
> very open and communicative, very
> attachment-parenting. We adore each other. The other
> day she woke me with breakfast in bed just because she
> wanted to see my pleased surprise.
>
> However, I can't help being hurt. I keep crying. I
> tell myself we'll talk this over tomorrow and it'll be
> fine. Right now, she's still in her uncommunicative
> stage. Dh is out of town for work, and so is my best
> friend, and so I don't even have them to turn to for
> perspective.
>
> I really think that the reason I'm so teary over this
> is NOT that I believe she loves the blanket more than
> me. In fact, I've always believed that blankies or
> pacifiers or special teddy bears are a symbol of the
> mother. I think the reason I'm so teary is that I'm
> realizing that, first, the deep need of her comfort
> object, and second, the inability to speak after
> saying something that probably horrified her as much
> as it did me, I'm realizing that I'm scared shitless
> that she really is bipolar.
>
> I mean, ONE of the reasons (there are many)
> unschooling is so good for her is that if she's (for
> example) writing one of her illustrated stories, and
> she can't get her letters to line up perfectly and
> goes into an uncontrollable fit, she can stop, go to
> her room, cuddle up with her blanket and come back to
> the story when she's feeling better.
>
> When she was in school (kindergarten and first grade
> and the beginning of second) each year, the teachers
> started off raving about what a happy, cooperative,
> friendly child she was, so well-loved by the other
> children, so kind, etc. Then, each year, there came a
> time when we got a phone call from the teacher,
> wondering if someone had died or if there was a
> divorce going on, because Aubrey had suddenly changed
> dramatically and was now a sullen, teary,
> non-participatory girl who had tantrums and hid from
> the other kids at recess. I would assure them there
> was no problem, that Aubrey is, in fact a very moody
> person, and that this new Aubrey was every bit as much
> the "real" Aubrey as the one they first met. Of course
> they thought I was covering some family secret or
> something. But one day soon, a smiling teacher would
> approach me and say maybe Aubrey had been sick or
> maybe whatever the problem was had been solved but
> they were happy to see Aubrey was back to her "old
> self." This cycle would usually occur once, twice, or
> maybe three times a school year. There'd be referrals
> to the school counselor for various "problems" such as
> perfectionism, inability to stop a creative project
> when it was time to line up (I know, I can see you
> rolling your eyes!)which was called "transition
> problems" and so forth. The the school counselor would
> feel the sweet thrill of success as Aubrey would
> suddenly become sunny and sweet again.
>
> I don't know how to wrap all this up, so I guess I
> just won't. I hope someone had the extraordinary
> patience to read it all.
>
> Juli, who is tearing up again.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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[email protected]
Holly has a half a dozen shirts with the neck chewed through right in the
front. It never occurred to me to worry about it. Probably if Kirby (the
#1, experimental model kid) had done it I would have been asking other
parents how I could get him to stop.
Marty sometimes sucks on part of a shirt neck or shirtsleeve, kind of
absentmindedly if he's watching a movie or sports or something. (Or he used
to--I haven't labelled it bad or dangerous so I haven't been noting whether
he's stopped or not.)
Sandra
front. It never occurred to me to worry about it. Probably if Kirby (the
#1, experimental model kid) had done it I would have been asking other
parents how I could get him to stop.
Marty sometimes sucks on part of a shirt neck or shirtsleeve, kind of
absentmindedly if he's watching a movie or sports or something. (Or he used
to--I haven't labelled it bad or dangerous so I haven't been noting whether
he's stopped or not.)
Sandra
[email protected]
To Juli about Aubrey,
The good thing about homeschooling is that Aubrey won't HAVE teachers and
counselors and other kids making her moods worse, or spotlighting them, or
praising her for being "up" (or acting like it's their superior teaching and
counseling abilities that "caused" the happiness).
I would recommend dealing gently with Aubrey in the moment. It's possible
that the dye and bacteria aren't as bad as the shaming and pressure. Do you
re-use toothbrushes or get a new one every day? (Or boil them?) People do
"recycle" their own bacteria pretty often, from drinking glasses, coffeecups,
all kinds of things.
When she's down or agitated or depressed, the fact that you DO know it's the
low of a cycle and she'll come back up in a few days or weeks should make it
easy for you to accept that she just kinda might need to be left alone or at
her own chosen level of interaction. When she's active and zippy and
smiley, don't make a big deal about that either--just appreciate it, and
maybe encourage her to get some things done (room cleaning? projects? having
friends visit? I'm thinking of examples from other people's lives) that
might be harder to do when she's down (temporarily, next time).
Kirby has mood problems more than anyone else in our family except me. So
because I was that way as a kid too, I teach him tricks which nobody thought
to teach me. How to breathe through frustration and rising fury, and to
remember that you have to pick up what you throw, and clean up what you
break. (When he was younger, he would throw things down when he was
angry--like remote controls for video games, or decks of cards. He quit
doing that before long because we would calmly point out what his options had
been--to breathe, set them down, and then walk away.)
What I've told Kirby (when he's receptive) is that he will probably be that
way his whole life, so he needs to learn to feel it coming and make
allowances for it. When he's in a depressed or frustrated state, he needs to
arrange to be by himself a little more, and realize that it's HIM and not all
the people and things around him, and that he won't stay there, that way, for
long.
He's lucky to be homeschooled and have the luxury of not having to interact
with a random bunch of outside people whether he wants to or not, when he's
in a low phase.
I'm lucky that I recognized some of his "symptoms" and could share tricks
with him that help our whole family now, and will help him always.
Trying to drug a child (except in TOTALLY extreme cases, which sometimes are
caused by overreaction to mild cases) or change them or wish the biochemical
realities away will add stress to an already stressful situation. Kids don't
act consistently and don't need to. Parents can learn to roll with the
waves, and help the kids do it too.
"Bi-polar" or "manic depressive" comes in all degrees. I realized in my 20's
that there were periods of time (not consistent lengths, but a week or three,
varying) that I could work really late, get up early, be clear and quick and
work overtime and visit all my friends and read and remember things (zip,
zip, zip), and then a week or two that I fell asleep early three or four
nights in a row, couldn't concentrate well, was short tempered, etc.
Having a consistent schedule every day did *not* help. I was restless in the
manic phases (if they can be called that without people freaking out here)
and too tired in the downtimes.
I think it's like a larger-scale cycle of sleeping and wakefulness--it's like
a cycle of brain growth (especially in kids!!) followed by a quieter time
(quieter in speed, noise, growth).
It is not unnatural.
Sandra
The good thing about homeschooling is that Aubrey won't HAVE teachers and
counselors and other kids making her moods worse, or spotlighting them, or
praising her for being "up" (or acting like it's their superior teaching and
counseling abilities that "caused" the happiness).
I would recommend dealing gently with Aubrey in the moment. It's possible
that the dye and bacteria aren't as bad as the shaming and pressure. Do you
re-use toothbrushes or get a new one every day? (Or boil them?) People do
"recycle" their own bacteria pretty often, from drinking glasses, coffeecups,
all kinds of things.
When she's down or agitated or depressed, the fact that you DO know it's the
low of a cycle and she'll come back up in a few days or weeks should make it
easy for you to accept that she just kinda might need to be left alone or at
her own chosen level of interaction. When she's active and zippy and
smiley, don't make a big deal about that either--just appreciate it, and
maybe encourage her to get some things done (room cleaning? projects? having
friends visit? I'm thinking of examples from other people's lives) that
might be harder to do when she's down (temporarily, next time).
Kirby has mood problems more than anyone else in our family except me. So
because I was that way as a kid too, I teach him tricks which nobody thought
to teach me. How to breathe through frustration and rising fury, and to
remember that you have to pick up what you throw, and clean up what you
break. (When he was younger, he would throw things down when he was
angry--like remote controls for video games, or decks of cards. He quit
doing that before long because we would calmly point out what his options had
been--to breathe, set them down, and then walk away.)
What I've told Kirby (when he's receptive) is that he will probably be that
way his whole life, so he needs to learn to feel it coming and make
allowances for it. When he's in a depressed or frustrated state, he needs to
arrange to be by himself a little more, and realize that it's HIM and not all
the people and things around him, and that he won't stay there, that way, for
long.
He's lucky to be homeschooled and have the luxury of not having to interact
with a random bunch of outside people whether he wants to or not, when he's
in a low phase.
I'm lucky that I recognized some of his "symptoms" and could share tricks
with him that help our whole family now, and will help him always.
Trying to drug a child (except in TOTALLY extreme cases, which sometimes are
caused by overreaction to mild cases) or change them or wish the biochemical
realities away will add stress to an already stressful situation. Kids don't
act consistently and don't need to. Parents can learn to roll with the
waves, and help the kids do it too.
"Bi-polar" or "manic depressive" comes in all degrees. I realized in my 20's
that there were periods of time (not consistent lengths, but a week or three,
varying) that I could work really late, get up early, be clear and quick and
work overtime and visit all my friends and read and remember things (zip,
zip, zip), and then a week or two that I fell asleep early three or four
nights in a row, couldn't concentrate well, was short tempered, etc.
Having a consistent schedule every day did *not* help. I was restless in the
manic phases (if they can be called that without people freaking out here)
and too tired in the downtimes.
I think it's like a larger-scale cycle of sleeping and wakefulness--it's like
a cycle of brain growth (especially in kids!!) followed by a quieter time
(quieter in speed, noise, growth).
It is not unnatural.
Sandra
Valerie Stewart
I'm no expert on the subject of being bi-polar and I second the advice to
read all you can about the various possible conditions you daughter may or
may not have. That said, I have a good friend who was diagnosed as bi-polar
around age 35. We always thought he just had an intense personality and felt
things deeply. The same kind of mood swings you describe in your daughter
could have been describing him. But no one seemed to think of it as abnormal
or bad or something that needed to be "fixed". It was only after he started
washing down a lot of legal and illegal drugs with alcohol that it really
posed a problem, because then the highs and lows got so exteme that he
couldn't work or inter-relate or even function anymore. If he had had an
insightful, caring mother like you he probably wouldn't have needed to
nearly die before starting to get better. So pat yourself on the back for
caring enough to ask.
Valerie in Tacoma
read all you can about the various possible conditions you daughter may or
may not have. That said, I have a good friend who was diagnosed as bi-polar
around age 35. We always thought he just had an intense personality and felt
things deeply. The same kind of mood swings you describe in your daughter
could have been describing him. But no one seemed to think of it as abnormal
or bad or something that needed to be "fixed". It was only after he started
washing down a lot of legal and illegal drugs with alcohol that it really
posed a problem, because then the highs and lows got so exteme that he
couldn't work or inter-relate or even function anymore. If he had had an
insightful, caring mother like you he probably wouldn't have needed to
nearly die before starting to get better. So pat yourself on the back for
caring enough to ask.
Valerie in Tacoma
DiamondAir
> From: yuli womie <yuliwomie@...>I don't have any good advice for you here. My sister has gone through a
> My dd is 8yo. There's some suspicion she might be
> bipolar, but we haven't gotten so far yet as to seek a
> diagnosis. Partly that's because I'm appalled at the
> idea of her taking medication. Partly it's a learned
> mistrust of doctors. Partly it's fear/denial.
spell where she was manic/depressive (after struggling with anorexia for
years) and I know how hard it can be to deal with this as a family. It was
very difficult while she was living with us at times. The good news is that
she is doing fine now and is not on any medication. So even if your worst
fears are realized, remember that it's not a lifelong sentence, that things,
people, brain chemistry changes. It's good to look around at all the
possibilities and see what could be influencing it. Have you ruled out
allergies and sensitivities? Many of them show up as behavioral issues and
some food allergies can directly influence how the brain is functioning
(dairy and gluten have both been shown to actually influence brain
function). My son after he has eaten dairy products is a whole different
child to the one when he has no dairy products. So you might keep a food
diary and a behavioral diary for her and see if there are any obvious
triggers. Also, I've mentioned it on this list before, but I would think
about looking into NAET if you suspect allergy-related behavioral issues.
You can read more at http://www.naet.com
> Then ds asked, "Would you rather lose BB or Mama?" SheWell, first of all these are questions that are unanswerable for her
> thought and thought and thought for so long I started
> feeling insulted. I said, "Now, really, you don't
> know? I'm your Mama!" She replied, "I'm sorry, Mama,
> but I reeeeeeally need BB." Ds was horrified and
> hugged me and petted my hair. He pressed her and she
> shouted, "It's my personality, it's my life,
> everything!" And then she wouldn't (or couldn't) say
> anything else at all about it.
obviously. It would be like someone asking me which of my kids I would
rather lose. I still have never gotten over reading "Sophie's Choice", ya
know? It's a question that horrifies any parent because if you love someone
completely you just can't contemplate losing them. I suspect the question
took so long for her to answer because she loves both you and her blankie
completely. As you mentioned you are an attachment parent, I'm sure you're
aware of just how important attachment is to the child. But the good news is
that children naturally gain independence from their attachment objects but
love for people is a much more complex and lifelong thing. She may stay very
attached to her blankie for a few more years and it may always be something
special to her, but as she grows and blossoms, her love for you will be
something much more fulfilling and total than that. If she finds the
question so distressing, it might be just as well to let her know that you
understand how hard that question was for her to answer and to let it go at
that (though it might be hard for you).
> I really think that the reason I'm so teary over thisWell obviously, I have no idea whether your daughter is or isn't bipolar,
> is NOT that I believe she loves the blanket more than
> me. In fact, I've always believed that blankies or
> pacifiers or special teddy bears are a symbol of the
> mother. I think the reason I'm so teary is that I'm
> realizing that, first, the deep need of her comfort
> object, and second, the inability to speak after
> saying something that probably horrified her as much
> as it did me, I'm realizing that I'm scared shitless
> that she really is bipolar.
but I'd say that neither of these things (having a deep need for an
attachment object at this age or being unable to speak after saying
something really frightening) is necessarily unusual. I know lots of people
who kept their blankies or teddy bears well into their teenage or even
college years, for one thing. As for the rest of her up-and-down behavior,
you might want to talk to a family-friendly counselor or therapist about it.
I'd suggest maybe contacting La Leche League to see if they have the name of
someone who is pro-attachment and can give you a balanced viewpoint on
whether or not you should seek additional help. I'd also investigate the
allergy end of it, from my personal experience with that being a big
influence.
I know it is hard to see your child struggle with something that other
children don't have to face. Sending many (((hugs))) your way!
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "My pants are outgrowing me"
and Asa (10/5/99) "Potty pee! Potty pee! Potty pee!"
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
Tracy Oldfield
>My mum does this! And she chews her thumb, too!!! But then, I
> Marty sometimes sucks on part of a shirt neck or shirtsleeve, kind of
> absentmindedly if he's watching a movie or sports or something. (Or
> he used to--I haven't labelled it bad or dangerous so I haven't been
> noting whether he's stopped or not.)
>
> Sandra
>
know she's nuts...
Tracy
[email protected]
> remember that you have to pick up what you throw, and clean up whatyou
> break. (When he was younger, he would throw things down when hewas
> angry--like remote controls for video games, or decks of cards.Glass milk bottles! That was my favourite. They go *S-M-A-S-H* and
break into a thousand pieces. I felt so much better!!! This was as
a 30yr old when I was sooooooooooooooooooo depressed - sad - lonely.
marianne
Elizabeth Hill
>Jesse, 8, no longer chews his clothes. (For him it was the neck of hisshirts
>-- all of them had a hole or two at his breastbone.) He chewed for about aWow! I had actually forgotten! My son did this for quite a while around
>year.
age 5 or 5 and a half, but gave it up a while ago.
Betsy
[email protected]
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Elizabeth Hill" <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
around all over with him. It really began to smell, so swapped it
with a clean one - BIG MISTAKE - he would only have the smelly one!!
So when he was asleep I would swap the smelly one for a clean one -
by morning it was *smelly* enough for him to accept it as the same
sheet!!! I think he was probable about 3-4 before he gave this sheet
up. he only needed it when he was tired.
Son No2 sucked his thumb. He was about 8-9 yrs old when he asked for
help to stop sucking it. Once HE decided he didnt want to do it
anymore, he soon managed to stop doing it.
I still tend to hold the top sheet between my teeth when i lay in
bed!!!
Marianne
wrote:
> >Jesse, 8, no longer chews his clothes. (For him it was the neck ofhis
> shirtsSon No3 had a cot sheet he used to suck. he carried this sheet
around all over with him. It really began to smell, so swapped it
with a clean one - BIG MISTAKE - he would only have the smelly one!!
So when he was asleep I would swap the smelly one for a clean one -
by morning it was *smelly* enough for him to accept it as the same
sheet!!! I think he was probable about 3-4 before he gave this sheet
up. he only needed it when he was tired.
Son No2 sucked his thumb. He was about 8-9 yrs old when he asked for
help to stop sucking it. Once HE decided he didnt want to do it
anymore, he soon managed to stop doing it.
I still tend to hold the top sheet between my teeth when i lay in
bed!!!
Marianne
Tracy Oldfield
I still tend to hold the top sheet between my teeth
when i lay in
bed!!!
Marianne
And I can't get to sleep without something covering my
shoulder (even if the rest of me is sweltering, my
shoulder is cold.) I hate finding stuff out of place
in the kitchen (but only when someone else has put it
out of place.)
The son of one of my mum's friends used to have a thing
for the feeling of tights, he'd rub his face on them...
Dd2 has to sleep (at least some of the night, if she's
in with me) with her feet resting on me. She used to
really create if I put her in a sleepsuit or socks to
sleep in, took me a while to figure it out. Put paid
to the sidecar-cot too...
Interesting, isn't it?
Tracy
when i lay in
bed!!!
Marianne
And I can't get to sleep without something covering my
shoulder (even if the rest of me is sweltering, my
shoulder is cold.) I hate finding stuff out of place
in the kitchen (but only when someone else has put it
out of place.)
The son of one of my mum's friends used to have a thing
for the feeling of tights, he'd rub his face on them...
Dd2 has to sleep (at least some of the night, if she's
in with me) with her feet resting on me. She used to
really create if I put her in a sleepsuit or socks to
sleep in, took me a while to figure it out. Put paid
to the sidecar-cot too...
Interesting, isn't it?
Tracy
[email protected]
>My dd and dh both sleep like star fish - and in summer like to sleep
> Interesting, isn't it?
>
> Tracy
with no covers. I have to have to a cover on me even if it is
swelltering.
Marianne
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/5/01 8:02:30 PM, tonitoni@... writes:
<< I still tend to hold the top sheet between my teeth when i lay in
bed!!! >>
When our kids were in the very next room, there were times I bit the sheets,
but I was grown and just wanted to be quiet at, uh... peak moments.
Oversharing, I guess. Sorry.
Sandra
<< I still tend to hold the top sheet between my teeth when i lay in
bed!!! >>
When our kids were in the very next room, there were times I bit the sheets,
but I was grown and just wanted to be quiet at, uh... peak moments.
Oversharing, I guess. Sorry.
Sandra
Bobbie
oh, this is going to be rambly most likely, so prepare
yourself. My family is almost ALL bipolar, manic
depressive, whatever you want to call it. my dad was,
but no one really thought of it like that (just
thought he was moody and easily depressed), until my
older brother, who is also an alcoholic & addict
extraordinare (both my older brothers are) started
seeing some counselor guy or something (I was younger
so I don't remember all the details of how it started)
and was diagnosed as "manic depressive"...we all
were... estatic, really, to finally put a name to it,
and we all watched some tapes about the condition, and
read up on it and it was exciting to find a "medical",
"scientific", "biological" reason for this THING we
were all so familiar with either in ourselves, or the
others in our family (since then we've realized all
but three of us are afflicted with this to different
degrees)... He was put on some anti-depressants (at
the time we didn't know that the guy who prescribed
them just did so left and right to everyone) and did
really well on them... the problem was that one day
without them made such a HUGE difference, and one
weekend he went the whole weekend without taking them
(he was off partying somewhere and his pills were at
home) and when he came back he was going to take them
and we all left the house for the day to go do our own
things we had planned, well, when he poured them in
his hand, alot more came out than he needed, and in
his HUGE state of MAJOR depression (worse than usual
from lack of medication), which impairs your reasoning
as well, thought he'd take extra cuz he had missed the
whole weekend. Well, then he got soo depressed in that
moment of realizing he was so dependant on them to be
able to function for one day that he took the whole
bottle and we all ended up at the hospital praying for
his life. I'm not telling you that to scare you, cuz
he is an extreme case and I'm going to say some
opposite ones, but I just said that one first cuz it
was my first introduction to the term of bipolar and
manic-depressive. Medication was obviously not for him
and prescribed too hastily. My dad later on came to
terms with the fact that he was majorly bipolar, and
we have never been much of a doctor family except when
absolutely neccesary, so the rest of us have never
been "diagnosed" by a blessed "professional" but that
really doesn't matter to me. Anyway, my dad would
start consciously recognizing when he was having a
"low" day and a "high" day. (We could all tell his
"high" days since I can remember. He would come home
some days and say "hey you guys wanna go out to eat
and stay in a hotel...just for fun?"..this was coming
from a man who HATED eating out and hotels... and
proceed to spend a BUNCH of money on us all without a
thought. very compulsively overly happy and
energetic....and the next day you never know he could
be so depressed he just wouldn't get out of bed. we
always attributed those days, though, to his health
problems (heart, mostly) and assumed he "just didn't
feel good") ANYWAY (I frequently drift, bare with me),
that was a good start cuz then he could consciously
work to make it not quite such an extreme case in
either direction (but there was still "symptoms" or
whatever you want to call them)...and then came the
prozac craze that swept the nation. At the time I was
a strict vegetarian and radical naturalist and thought
pills of any kind were bad for you in the long run and
there must be some natural substitute for whatever it
was. Well, my sister's husband (who we won't go into
cuz I am anti- him) started taking it (he was just
flat out depressed, nothing manic about this man ever)
and so she suggested it to my dad. Well, even her
husband which I don't like started acting differently.
He's normally hard to get along with and please and
gets mad at people alot, and he stopped all that. I
was happy for her, but really didn't care. But then MY
DAD was just on a normal even keel all the time. No
manic binges and no making you physically sick
depression that no one can help with. Just ...as close
to "normal" (aside from being part of our family, ha
ha) as possible. We all loved it and he seemed to,
too.
Then sister's husband stopped taking it. I think it
made him mad that it forced him to be nice to people.
After awhile my dad did, too, cuz he said it made him
too "docile". We were like, "yeah. for you. it's a
good thing." (joking....sorry this is what we do in my
family. joking helps everything)
my other brother I used to think had this bipolar
thing, but I've come to the realization recently that
that's not it at all but something much different and
deeper. My mom's not had a trace of it at all that I
could ever tell. Me and two of my sisters could be
poster girls for the bipolar association if there is
such a thing. Especially me and my younger sis. I'll
tell you from my own experience, that I have ALWAYS
felt this way, since I was little. I used to cry when
my dad sang "you are my sunshine" and actually MADE
him never sing it anymore cuz I couldn't handle it cuz
it was "just too depressing". Don't ask me how I knew
what depressing was, but I remember thinking all the
time that things were depressing and really knowing
what I meant by that. There have been brief times in
my adult life that I am at the very bottom of a very
depressing day and when you are there you really see
know way out and you act like a different person and
your friends and family wonder if you are on drugs and
you can hear yourself being a b*tch to them and you
feel bad but you don't have it in you to act
differently that day. or that hour, rather. And at a
couple of those times I have thought, I wish I would
just have some medication to make this go away and
I'll be normal. But those moments are fleeting and me
and my boyfriend have discussed this many times, cuz
his family (bipolar wise anyway) is the same way and
he is and in their family they are all just so
comfortable and accepting of the condition and the
fact that at any given moment one of them could be
having a "low" or a "high" (though theirs are for a
few dayz at a time, not changing several times in one
day sometimes)...and it's just like if someone had
diabetes or high blood pressure or arthritis...and
they work around it. In our family we all recognize it
and accept it but we worry about each other when we
see one of us getting down, cuz of the extreme
experiences we've had with the boyz. But I have to
EMPHASIZE that their problems (bipolar or
manic-depressive or whatever) are only soooo extreme
cuz of their alcohol and drug use and I would NOT
anticipate that for your daughter...she sounds like my
little sister who to this very day is the moodiest,
most dramatic and sensitive person I know. Regardless
of any bipolar disorder. It's her personality. And
she's VERY defensive of people saying she's too
dramatic or sensitive. But she has been working on it
alot. She would be that dramatic and moody and upset
over things like that when she was younger, JUST like
your daughter. She sucked her thumb til she was like
11, and the only harm it did her (besides my
tormenting her) was that she sucked sooo hard it
pulled her teeth out a bit for a slight overbite but a
small price to pay, I say, for the comfort it brought
her (and she had great relationship with both our
parents and felt very loved by them, still does), and
when she sucked her thumb she had to have her favorite
blue blanket with "soft" on the edge (or any blanket
with "soft", if the blue one wasn't available) and she
ran the "soft" in and out of her fingers while she
sucked her thumb and watched tv or whatever she was
doing...especially going to sleep. She just recently
had to get rid of the blue blanket (I think we buried
a dog with it or something) and she has now a little
yellow baby blanket that she found at a second hand
store and it was JUST like her old one, only smaller
(the blue one was a king size or something) ...the new
ones they make don't have REAL "soft" on them...just
some scratchy stuff...and she takes the new yellow one
with her when she travels or sleeps somewhere
else...when we go to the movies with my kids I wrap
the kids in it and she hangs on to the corner of
it...I think it's perfectly healthy...she's 21, by the
way. And she has never been on any medication and I
think the only damage that has ever been done to any
of us from this is feeling like there is something
"wrong" with us that's embarrassing in some way and
not just adapting our lives on a purely day to day
basis according to how everyone is feeling.
Oh my ex husband had the same problems and ADHD if you
believe in such a condition. (I do) and I'm sure my
kids have a bit of the signs now and will continue to.
I try to just act like it's normal to feel that way
and unless they are hurting someone else then I'll
treat it the same way as if they were anemic. I'm not
saying that's for everyone though, cuz like I said I
think medication was the right thing for my dad. And
lots of other people to. But it is overrated and
overdone and sometimes not prescribed properly. My
advice? hm. Am I even qualified to give any? :)
I'd say try reading alot about child psychology and
not just bipolar things and try to find the best way
for your family for you to talk to her about it...
just ask her how she feels. How she feels sometimes
when she's sad, or mad. (But do it when she's haveing
a "good" day, maybe? I don't know) She'll most likely
be embarrassed by this though. I was anyway. Talking
about any feelings with my parents at that age...
but it might help if you tell her YOU feel sad or mad
sometimes just for the heck of it. And that's totally
ok. Tell her you aren't mad at her or hurt by what she
said about BB, and maybe tell her about something you
were/are attached to from childhood. If she doesn't
want to talk about it, my honest advice is to not try
to make her talk if she REALLY doesn't want to, but
DON'T act as though there is something to be hidden,
or NOT talked about and don't treat her like she is
fragile, cuz that may make her feel more on the spot
if she just wants to feel like a "normal" kid. Then if
it gets worse or maybe if you feel it's worse right
now, then see about a child counseler for her to see.
Sounds expensive, but so is medicating and this may
help in a more long term way.. there are sliding scale
places too, and ones that target talking to the WHOLE
family so she doens't feel singled out and everyone
else can be helped to deal with what's going on.
As far as your feelings being hurt. I know mine would
be. I just want my kids to like me and think I'm cool.
:) I used to have that going for me, but my boyfriend
has taken my place in the coolness department now and
they love me to death, I know, but I'm not really
considered "fun" anymore.
They'll get over it. .....
or they'll be in trouble.
(joking again, sorry.)
I hope this long long long reply helps a little bit
and really bipolar is not that scary, unless it
reaches really psychotic levels... I think it is a
REALLY good sign that she can calm herself and knows
how to do so without infringing on anyone else.
Oh yeah, my son chews on EVERYTHING...I don't know
what it is but he goes through these spurts of chewing
on all his shirts, socks, toys, blankets, his
hands...I've been meaning to look into some
psychological reasons for it. Anyone having any input
there is very more that welcome to share...
-Bobbie
__________________________________________________
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yourself. My family is almost ALL bipolar, manic
depressive, whatever you want to call it. my dad was,
but no one really thought of it like that (just
thought he was moody and easily depressed), until my
older brother, who is also an alcoholic & addict
extraordinare (both my older brothers are) started
seeing some counselor guy or something (I was younger
so I don't remember all the details of how it started)
and was diagnosed as "manic depressive"...we all
were... estatic, really, to finally put a name to it,
and we all watched some tapes about the condition, and
read up on it and it was exciting to find a "medical",
"scientific", "biological" reason for this THING we
were all so familiar with either in ourselves, or the
others in our family (since then we've realized all
but three of us are afflicted with this to different
degrees)... He was put on some anti-depressants (at
the time we didn't know that the guy who prescribed
them just did so left and right to everyone) and did
really well on them... the problem was that one day
without them made such a HUGE difference, and one
weekend he went the whole weekend without taking them
(he was off partying somewhere and his pills were at
home) and when he came back he was going to take them
and we all left the house for the day to go do our own
things we had planned, well, when he poured them in
his hand, alot more came out than he needed, and in
his HUGE state of MAJOR depression (worse than usual
from lack of medication), which impairs your reasoning
as well, thought he'd take extra cuz he had missed the
whole weekend. Well, then he got soo depressed in that
moment of realizing he was so dependant on them to be
able to function for one day that he took the whole
bottle and we all ended up at the hospital praying for
his life. I'm not telling you that to scare you, cuz
he is an extreme case and I'm going to say some
opposite ones, but I just said that one first cuz it
was my first introduction to the term of bipolar and
manic-depressive. Medication was obviously not for him
and prescribed too hastily. My dad later on came to
terms with the fact that he was majorly bipolar, and
we have never been much of a doctor family except when
absolutely neccesary, so the rest of us have never
been "diagnosed" by a blessed "professional" but that
really doesn't matter to me. Anyway, my dad would
start consciously recognizing when he was having a
"low" day and a "high" day. (We could all tell his
"high" days since I can remember. He would come home
some days and say "hey you guys wanna go out to eat
and stay in a hotel...just for fun?"..this was coming
from a man who HATED eating out and hotels... and
proceed to spend a BUNCH of money on us all without a
thought. very compulsively overly happy and
energetic....and the next day you never know he could
be so depressed he just wouldn't get out of bed. we
always attributed those days, though, to his health
problems (heart, mostly) and assumed he "just didn't
feel good") ANYWAY (I frequently drift, bare with me),
that was a good start cuz then he could consciously
work to make it not quite such an extreme case in
either direction (but there was still "symptoms" or
whatever you want to call them)...and then came the
prozac craze that swept the nation. At the time I was
a strict vegetarian and radical naturalist and thought
pills of any kind were bad for you in the long run and
there must be some natural substitute for whatever it
was. Well, my sister's husband (who we won't go into
cuz I am anti- him) started taking it (he was just
flat out depressed, nothing manic about this man ever)
and so she suggested it to my dad. Well, even her
husband which I don't like started acting differently.
He's normally hard to get along with and please and
gets mad at people alot, and he stopped all that. I
was happy for her, but really didn't care. But then MY
DAD was just on a normal even keel all the time. No
manic binges and no making you physically sick
depression that no one can help with. Just ...as close
to "normal" (aside from being part of our family, ha
ha) as possible. We all loved it and he seemed to,
too.
Then sister's husband stopped taking it. I think it
made him mad that it forced him to be nice to people.
After awhile my dad did, too, cuz he said it made him
too "docile". We were like, "yeah. for you. it's a
good thing." (joking....sorry this is what we do in my
family. joking helps everything)
my other brother I used to think had this bipolar
thing, but I've come to the realization recently that
that's not it at all but something much different and
deeper. My mom's not had a trace of it at all that I
could ever tell. Me and two of my sisters could be
poster girls for the bipolar association if there is
such a thing. Especially me and my younger sis. I'll
tell you from my own experience, that I have ALWAYS
felt this way, since I was little. I used to cry when
my dad sang "you are my sunshine" and actually MADE
him never sing it anymore cuz I couldn't handle it cuz
it was "just too depressing". Don't ask me how I knew
what depressing was, but I remember thinking all the
time that things were depressing and really knowing
what I meant by that. There have been brief times in
my adult life that I am at the very bottom of a very
depressing day and when you are there you really see
know way out and you act like a different person and
your friends and family wonder if you are on drugs and
you can hear yourself being a b*tch to them and you
feel bad but you don't have it in you to act
differently that day. or that hour, rather. And at a
couple of those times I have thought, I wish I would
just have some medication to make this go away and
I'll be normal. But those moments are fleeting and me
and my boyfriend have discussed this many times, cuz
his family (bipolar wise anyway) is the same way and
he is and in their family they are all just so
comfortable and accepting of the condition and the
fact that at any given moment one of them could be
having a "low" or a "high" (though theirs are for a
few dayz at a time, not changing several times in one
day sometimes)...and it's just like if someone had
diabetes or high blood pressure or arthritis...and
they work around it. In our family we all recognize it
and accept it but we worry about each other when we
see one of us getting down, cuz of the extreme
experiences we've had with the boyz. But I have to
EMPHASIZE that their problems (bipolar or
manic-depressive or whatever) are only soooo extreme
cuz of their alcohol and drug use and I would NOT
anticipate that for your daughter...she sounds like my
little sister who to this very day is the moodiest,
most dramatic and sensitive person I know. Regardless
of any bipolar disorder. It's her personality. And
she's VERY defensive of people saying she's too
dramatic or sensitive. But she has been working on it
alot. She would be that dramatic and moody and upset
over things like that when she was younger, JUST like
your daughter. She sucked her thumb til she was like
11, and the only harm it did her (besides my
tormenting her) was that she sucked sooo hard it
pulled her teeth out a bit for a slight overbite but a
small price to pay, I say, for the comfort it brought
her (and she had great relationship with both our
parents and felt very loved by them, still does), and
when she sucked her thumb she had to have her favorite
blue blanket with "soft" on the edge (or any blanket
with "soft", if the blue one wasn't available) and she
ran the "soft" in and out of her fingers while she
sucked her thumb and watched tv or whatever she was
doing...especially going to sleep. She just recently
had to get rid of the blue blanket (I think we buried
a dog with it or something) and she has now a little
yellow baby blanket that she found at a second hand
store and it was JUST like her old one, only smaller
(the blue one was a king size or something) ...the new
ones they make don't have REAL "soft" on them...just
some scratchy stuff...and she takes the new yellow one
with her when she travels or sleeps somewhere
else...when we go to the movies with my kids I wrap
the kids in it and she hangs on to the corner of
it...I think it's perfectly healthy...she's 21, by the
way. And she has never been on any medication and I
think the only damage that has ever been done to any
of us from this is feeling like there is something
"wrong" with us that's embarrassing in some way and
not just adapting our lives on a purely day to day
basis according to how everyone is feeling.
Oh my ex husband had the same problems and ADHD if you
believe in such a condition. (I do) and I'm sure my
kids have a bit of the signs now and will continue to.
I try to just act like it's normal to feel that way
and unless they are hurting someone else then I'll
treat it the same way as if they were anemic. I'm not
saying that's for everyone though, cuz like I said I
think medication was the right thing for my dad. And
lots of other people to. But it is overrated and
overdone and sometimes not prescribed properly. My
advice? hm. Am I even qualified to give any? :)
I'd say try reading alot about child psychology and
not just bipolar things and try to find the best way
for your family for you to talk to her about it...
just ask her how she feels. How she feels sometimes
when she's sad, or mad. (But do it when she's haveing
a "good" day, maybe? I don't know) She'll most likely
be embarrassed by this though. I was anyway. Talking
about any feelings with my parents at that age...
but it might help if you tell her YOU feel sad or mad
sometimes just for the heck of it. And that's totally
ok. Tell her you aren't mad at her or hurt by what she
said about BB, and maybe tell her about something you
were/are attached to from childhood. If she doesn't
want to talk about it, my honest advice is to not try
to make her talk if she REALLY doesn't want to, but
DON'T act as though there is something to be hidden,
or NOT talked about and don't treat her like she is
fragile, cuz that may make her feel more on the spot
if she just wants to feel like a "normal" kid. Then if
it gets worse or maybe if you feel it's worse right
now, then see about a child counseler for her to see.
Sounds expensive, but so is medicating and this may
help in a more long term way.. there are sliding scale
places too, and ones that target talking to the WHOLE
family so she doens't feel singled out and everyone
else can be helped to deal with what's going on.
As far as your feelings being hurt. I know mine would
be. I just want my kids to like me and think I'm cool.
:) I used to have that going for me, but my boyfriend
has taken my place in the coolness department now and
they love me to death, I know, but I'm not really
considered "fun" anymore.
They'll get over it. .....
or they'll be in trouble.
(joking again, sorry.)
I hope this long long long reply helps a little bit
and really bipolar is not that scary, unless it
reaches really psychotic levels... I think it is a
REALLY good sign that she can calm herself and knows
how to do so without infringing on anyone else.
Oh yeah, my son chews on EVERYTHING...I don't know
what it is but he goes through these spurts of chewing
on all his shirts, socks, toys, blankets, his
hands...I've been meaning to look into some
psychological reasons for it. Anyone having any input
there is very more that welcome to share...
-Bobbie
__________________________________________________
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Bobbie
Thanks for that info, I just barely got done replying
to Juli and mentioned my son's chewing.
And what a beautiful picture you painted in such a
loving way. It had ME crying, too.
-Bobbie
--- LisaBugg <LisaBugg@...> wrote:
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to Juli and mentioned my son's chewing.
And what a beautiful picture you painted in such a
loving way. It had ME crying, too.
-Bobbie
--- LisaBugg <LisaBugg@...> wrote:
> I have lots and lots of thoughts and ideas and__________________________________________________
> resources. The chewing in
> itself is a sign. Many, many Asperger's children
> chew their clothing. What
> you need to di is do a web search on Aspergers,
> Autism, Tony Atwood, and
> bipolar. Read, read read. On the message boards
> there is a folder for
> special needs kids with some just wonderful moms to
> talk to.Go there and ask
> very specific questions, the more specific the
> better.
>
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Bobbie
!!!!!
you know...
I..I just..
I love you. Can I say that? :)
Yeah I can. I at least love this post. I've been
reading everyone else's responses to Juli and I feel
like mine is almost not worth reading with its sheer
confusing personal stories.
But what you said in another post about not even
noting if you son had stopped chewing or not. It was
lovely.
And this whole entire post is just the best one I can
think you could've given. You did not dismiss they
possibility of calling it "manic" or what not, but did
not call it that either, as though it was a condition
to be treated.
To say it's not unnatural, and describing your own
experience as a REGULAR person with ups and downs...
are alot like my own experience and I had not really
thought about the sleep/energy thing in regards to
this before, but as a seperate "problem".
( I was sitting here going "yeah!" "me too!", etc
etc...I'll be questioned in a minute)
I agree with absolutely everything you said here and I
envy your kids.
I'm sure their friends do, too.
My friends envied me cuz my parents were laid back and
I hardly got invited anywhere cuz they all wanted to
come to MY house...cuz my parents would let us eat
when we were hungry and whatever we wanted that we
could find and get dirty and all those things and I
think you must be a much more modernized version of
that, but doing it everso consciously and I love it.
It truly sets a beautiful example for those of us who
strive to be that way all the time. Thankyou very
much.
-Bobbie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
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you know...
I..I just..
I love you. Can I say that? :)
Yeah I can. I at least love this post. I've been
reading everyone else's responses to Juli and I feel
like mine is almost not worth reading with its sheer
confusing personal stories.
But what you said in another post about not even
noting if you son had stopped chewing or not. It was
lovely.
And this whole entire post is just the best one I can
think you could've given. You did not dismiss they
possibility of calling it "manic" or what not, but did
not call it that either, as though it was a condition
to be treated.
To say it's not unnatural, and describing your own
experience as a REGULAR person with ups and downs...
are alot like my own experience and I had not really
thought about the sleep/energy thing in regards to
this before, but as a seperate "problem".
( I was sitting here going "yeah!" "me too!", etc
etc...I'll be questioned in a minute)
I agree with absolutely everything you said here and I
envy your kids.
I'm sure their friends do, too.
My friends envied me cuz my parents were laid back and
I hardly got invited anywhere cuz they all wanted to
come to MY house...cuz my parents would let us eat
when we were hungry and whatever we wanted that we
could find and get dirty and all those things and I
think you must be a much more modernized version of
that, but doing it everso consciously and I love it.
It truly sets a beautiful example for those of us who
strive to be that way all the time. Thankyou very
much.
-Bobbie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
> To Juli about Aubrey,__________________________________________________
>
> The good thing about homeschooling is that Aubrey
> won't HAVE teachers and
> counselors and other kids making her moods worse, or
> spotlighting them, or
> praising her for being "up" (or acting like it's
> their superior teaching and
> counseling abilities that "caused" the happiness).
>
> I would recommend dealing gently with Aubrey in the
> moment. It's possible
> that the dye and bacteria aren't as bad as the
> shaming and pressure. Do you
> re-use toothbrushes or get a new one every day? (Or
> boil them?) People do
> "recycle" their own bacteria pretty often, from
> drinking glasses, coffeecups,
> all kinds of things.
>
> When she's down or agitated or depressed, the fact
> that you DO know it's the
> low of a cycle and she'll come back up in a few days
> or weeks should make it
> easy for you to accept that she just kinda might
> need to be left alone or at
> her own chosen level of interaction. When she's
> active and zippy and
> smiley, don't make a big deal about that
> either--just appreciate it, and
> maybe encourage her to get some things done (room
> cleaning? projects? having
> friends visit? I'm thinking of examples from other
> people's lives) that
> might be harder to do when she's down (temporarily,
> next time).
>
> Kirby has mood problems more than anyone else in our
> family except me. So
> because I was that way as a kid too, I teach him
> tricks which nobody thought
> to teach me. How to breathe through frustration and
> rising fury, and to
> remember that you have to pick up what you throw,
> and clean up what you
> break. (When he was younger, he would throw things
> down when he was
> angry--like remote controls for video games, or
> decks of cards. He quit
> doing that before long because we would calmly point
> out what his options had
> been--to breathe, set them down, and then walk
> away.)
>
> What I've told Kirby (when he's receptive) is that
> he will probably be that
> way his whole life, so he needs to learn to feel it
> coming and make
> allowances for it. When he's in a depressed or
> frustrated state, he needs to
> arrange to be by himself a little more, and realize
> that it's HIM and not all
> the people and things around him, and that he won't
> stay there, that way, for
> long.
>
> He's lucky to be homeschooled and have the luxury of
> not having to interact
> with a random bunch of outside people whether he
> wants to or not, when he's
> in a low phase.
>
> I'm lucky that I recognized some of his "symptoms"
> and could share tricks
> with him that help our whole family now, and will
> help him always.
>
> Trying to drug a child (except in TOTALLY extreme
> cases, which sometimes are
> caused by overreaction to mild cases) or change them
> or wish the biochemical
> realities away will add stress to an already
> stressful situation. Kids don't
> act consistently and don't need to. Parents can
> learn to roll with the
> waves, and help the kids do it too.
>
> "Bi-polar" or "manic depressive" comes in all
> degrees. I realized in my 20's
> that there were periods of time (not consistent
> lengths, but a week or three,
> varying) that I could work really late, get up
> early, be clear and quick and
> work overtime and visit all my friends and read and
> remember things (zip,
> zip, zip), and then a week or two that I fell asleep
> early three or four
> nights in a row, couldn't concentrate well, was
> short tempered, etc.
>
> Having a consistent schedule every day did *not*
> help. I was restless in the
> manic phases (if they can be called that without
> people freaking out here)
> and too tired in the downtimes.
>
> I think it's like a larger-scale cycle of sleeping
> and wakefulness--it's like
> a cycle of brain growth (especially in kids!!)
> followed by a quieter time
> (quieter in speed, noise, growth).
>
> It is not unnatural.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
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Juli,
I have been through this with my 11 year old son also.
I was told to start educating myself.
Bipolar will scare the pants off of a parent, who isn't
knowledgeable with this term.
YOU WILL NEED TO LOOK AT BIPOLAR YOURSELF IN ORDER
TO SEE IF IT EVEN FITS YOUR CHILD.
Never accept any schools, or anyones opinion on "what your
child may have" until you have weighed the info yourself.
Be very careful if you seek a doctors help, let him figure it out,
I wouldn't share any possible labels with him upfront.
Also, there was I book I purchased Called The Out-of Sync Child by
Carol Stock Kranowitz, M.A.
My husband was diagnosed bi-polar, and I am not so sure the doctor
was right. I know that bi-polar can be heriditary, so I also thought
that my son was also. The situations that you mention, are similar
to what my son has gone through.
Linda
I have been through this with my 11 year old son also.
I was told to start educating myself.
Bipolar will scare the pants off of a parent, who isn't
knowledgeable with this term.
YOU WILL NEED TO LOOK AT BIPOLAR YOURSELF IN ORDER
TO SEE IF IT EVEN FITS YOUR CHILD.
Never accept any schools, or anyones opinion on "what your
child may have" until you have weighed the info yourself.
Be very careful if you seek a doctors help, let him figure it out,
I wouldn't share any possible labels with him upfront.
Also, there was I book I purchased Called The Out-of Sync Child by
Carol Stock Kranowitz, M.A.
My husband was diagnosed bi-polar, and I am not so sure the doctor
was right. I know that bi-polar can be heriditary, so I also thought
that my son was also. The situations that you mention, are similar
to what my son has gone through.
Linda