Collette Mattingly

We don't visit any place where there are caged/kept animals.  I often feel pangs of fear that my son is missing out.  So I have to put it in perspective.  He may not be seeing wild animals up close but he is learning the value of integrity.  We write all sorts of letters and contribute to saving the wilderness for the animals we do have left. Shortly after the new baby is born we're going to start traveling again.  Thankfully DH lived in Tanzania for a number of years so we'll visit there and see them in their element. - Collette
----- Original Message -----
From: Erin Sutka
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:44 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

This question was very thought provoking for myself as well, we are also a vegetarian family and I think your response hit the nail right on the head for me!!
 

Erin

esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: DiamondAir [mailto:diamondair@...]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 1:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

>    From: "Collette Mattingly" <collettemattingly@...>
> Robin,
> Just curious, if you're vegetarian how come you go to the aquarium?  We're
vegan for the animals sake and for us caging animals is another injustice.
> Collette


Hmmm, that's a very thought-provoking question and has a couple of different
facets to it. We're vegetarians for many different reasons. I guess the
first and foremost would be for the earth's sake. The amount of water,
energy, chemicals, land abuse, etc. needed to sustain production of meat
animals is horrific on the environment. Secondly would be health reasons, we
eat organic produce or stuff we grow ourselves, I don't want to be putting
meat into our bodies that has hormones, fertilizers, pesticides, etc. in it,
and also I feel that meat doesn't feel "right" to my body on a cellular
level (I've been a veggie for going on 20 years now, it was when I started
exercising and came to a better awareness of my body that I first felt how
wrong it felt for my own body to eat meat). Thirdly would be animal-loving
reasons as the way most meat animals are raised and slaughtered is pretty
inhumane. But I'm not totally against eating meat for this reason - if it
was like my ancestors where it was myself, a deer , and an arrow, I'd most
likely shoot the deer. After all, the mountain lion would be doing the same
thing, nature is in itself fairly cruel to animals across the board. But
modern methods go above and beyond in the cruelty department and so I don't
like to support them.

That brings us to the aquarium. This is an issue I've gone back and forth on
for many years. Do I go to zoos, circuses, wild animal parks, or not? On one
hand, they are keeping animals in cages which feels wrong to me. On the
other hand, zoos, aquariums, etc. have come a long way since the day of the
bear in the concrete cage staring out through the bars. Nowadays most zoos
are into wildlife research, reproduction, animal-trading with other zoos to
breed species whose decline in the wild is bordering on extinction, etc. And
they also play a big role in educating the public about the dangers to our
earth's wild areas. So does the good they do balance out the bad? Or does
the bad of keeping wild animals caged outweigh the good of perhaps saving
the whole species? Would panda bears be extinct now if people didn't see how
magical they are up close and therefore send money, time, and energy to
organizations to keep their remaining habitat safe? The Oregon Coast
Aquarium, where we went, has some measure of fame because of their efforts
to rehabilitate Keiko (the orca from "Free Willy") and return him to the
wild. Is supporting this a good thing? Right now, we do go to the aquarium,
and to the zoo. We don't go to the circus because I feel that it doesn't
have any redeeming qualities, the animals are only there for entertainment
and no research or educational benefit is present.

A long-winded reply to a question that for me doesn't have an absolute
answer.

Blue Skies!
   -Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers   Flying Clevenger Family



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Sue

I have taken my children to zoos, but research the ethics behind the institution before letting them get a hold of my money.   Many are now making life as "normal" as possible for animals, with enclosures made to keep them happy and lower the stress in their lives.   Breeding programs in some zoos has helped save some species from extinction and that can't be bad.   I recall seeing the gorillas in The Melbourne Zoo, well catching a glimpse of them anyway, their enclosure gives them control over whether or not they are visible to humans.  The orangutans on the other hand seem rather gregarious and enjoy watching people as much as the people enjoy watching them.   One in particular would imitate the faces you were pulling at him.  
 
I recall zoos from my childhood with horror, tigers pacing in small cages, nothing but prisoners and very obviously suffering from their captivity, then I think of Dreamworld's tiger exhibit with a large enclosure with plenty to keep the animals occupied.    
 
These animals can live longer than in the wild, and don't have to elude hunters and poachers bullets. 
 
Sue
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom]aquariums

We don't visit any place where there are caged/kept animals.  I often feel pangs of fear that my son is missing out.  So I have to put it in perspective.  He may not be seeing wild animals up close but he is learning the value of integrity.  We write all sorts of letters and contribute to saving the wilderness for the animals we do have left. Shortly after the new baby is born we're going to start traveling again.  Thankfully DH lived in Tanzania for a number of years so we'll visit there and see them in their element. - Collette

Erin Sutka

There is no better place to learn about the wildlife then in their own environment, I'm jealous :)
 

Erin

esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: Collette Mattingly [mailto:collettemattingly@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom]aquariums

We don't visit any place where there are caged/kept animals.  I often feel pangs of fear that my son is missing out.  So I have to put it in perspective.  He may not be seeing wild animals up close but he is learning the value of integrity.  We write all sorts of letters and contribute to saving the wilderness for the animals we do have left. Shortly after the new baby is born we're going to start traveling again.  Thankfully DH lived in Tanzania for a number of years so we'll visit there and see them in their element. - Collette
----- Original Message -----
From: Erin Sutka
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:44 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

This question was very thought provoking for myself as well, we are also a vegetarian family and I think your response hit the nail right on the head for me!!
 

Erin

esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: DiamondAir [mailto:diamondair@...]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 1:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

>    From: "Collette Mattingly" <collettemattingly@...>
> Robin,
> Just curious, if you're vegetarian how come you go to the aquarium?  We're
vegan for the animals sake and for us caging animals is another injustice.
> Collette


Hmmm, that's a very thought-provoking question and has a couple of different
facets to it. We're vegetarians for many different reasons. I guess the
first and foremost would be for the earth's sake. The amount of water,
energy, chemicals, land abuse, etc. needed to sustain production of meat
animals is horrific on the environment. Secondly would be health reasons, we
eat organic produce or stuff we grow ourselves, I don't want to be putting
meat into our bodies that has hormones, fertilizers, pesticides, etc. in it,
and also I feel that meat doesn't feel "right" to my body on a cellular
level (I've been a veggie for going on 20 years now, it was when I started
exercising and came to a better awareness of my body that I first felt how
wrong it felt for my own body to eat meat). Thirdly would be animal-loving
reasons as the way most meat animals are raised and slaughtered is pretty
inhumane. But I'm not totally against eating meat for this reason - if it
was like my ancestors where it was myself, a deer , and an arrow, I'd most
likely shoot the deer. After all, the mountain lion would be doing the same
thing, nature is in itself fairly cruel to animals across the board. But
modern methods go above and beyond in the cruelty department and so I don't
like to support them.

That brings us to the aquarium. This is an issue I've gone back and forth on
for many years. Do I go to zoos, circuses, wild animal parks, or not? On one
hand, they are keeping animals in cages which feels wrong to me. On the
other hand, zoos, aquariums, etc. have come a long way since the day of the
bear in the concrete cage staring out through the bars. Nowadays most zoos
are into wildlife research, reproduction, animal-trading with other zoos to
breed species whose decline in the wild is bordering on extinction, etc. And
they also play a big role in educating the public about the dangers to our
earth's wild areas. So does the good they do balance out the bad? Or does
the bad of keeping wild animals caged outweigh the good of perhaps saving
the whole species? Would panda bears be extinct now if people didn't see how
magical they are up close and therefore send money, time, and energy to
organizations to keep their remaining habitat safe? The Oregon Coast
Aquarium, where we went, has some measure of fame because of their efforts
to rehabilitate Keiko (the orca from "Free Willy") and return him to the
wild. Is supporting this a good thing? Right now, we do go to the aquarium,
and to the zoo. We don't go to the circus because I feel that it doesn't
have any redeeming qualities, the animals are only there for entertainment
and no research or educational benefit is present.

A long-winded reply to a question that for me doesn't have an absolute
answer.

Blue Skies!
   -Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers   Flying Clevenger Family



Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

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Lynda

I think it depends on the setting.  Lots of the places are animal rescue organizations that have rescued animals that were bought as pets or were in a circus or animals that some *&$#@ meant to be "pay to kill" sport.  There are also several that have breeding programs that have saved endangered species and several that breed to return to the wild.
 
We have supported those and taken the kidlets to those.  Zoos, on the other hand, make me crazy!!!!!!!!!
 
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom]aquariums

We don't visit any place where there are caged/kept animals.  I often feel pangs of fear that my son is missing out.  So I have to put it in perspective.  He may not be seeing wild animals up close but he is learning the value of integrity.  We write all sorts of letters and contribute to saving the wilderness for the animals we do have left. Shortly after the new baby is born we're going to start traveling again.  Thankfully DH lived in Tanzania for a number of years so we'll visit there and see them in their element. - Collette
----- Original Message -----
From: Erin Sutka
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:44 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

This question was very thought provoking for myself as well, we are also a vegetarian family and I think your response hit the nail right on the head for me!!
 

Erin

esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: DiamondAir [mailto:diamondair@...]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 1:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

>    From: "Collette Mattingly" <collettemattingly@...>
> Robin,
> Just curious, if you're vegetarian how come you go to the aquarium?  We're
vegan for the animals sake and for us caging animals is another injustice.
> Collette


Hmmm, that's a very thought-provoking question and has a couple of different
facets to it. We're vegetarians for many different reasons. I guess the
first and foremost would be for the earth's sake. The amount of water,
energy, chemicals, land abuse, etc. needed to sustain production of meat
animals is horrific on the environment. Secondly would be health reasons, we
eat organic produce or stuff we grow ourselves, I don't want to be putting
meat into our bodies that has hormones, fertilizers, pesticides, etc. in it,
and also I feel that meat doesn't feel "right" to my body on a cellular
level (I've been a veggie for going on 20 years now, it was when I started
exercising and came to a better awareness of my body that I first felt how
wrong it felt for my own body to eat meat). Thirdly would be animal-loving
reasons as the way most meat animals are raised and slaughtered is pretty
inhumane. But I'm not totally against eating meat for this reason - if it
was like my ancestors where it was myself, a deer , and an arrow, I'd most
likely shoot the deer. After all, the mountain lion would be doing the same
thing, nature is in itself fairly cruel to animals across the board. But
modern methods go above and beyond in the cruelty department and so I don't
like to support them.

That brings us to the aquarium. This is an issue I've gone back and forth on
for many years. Do I go to zoos, circuses, wild animal parks, or not? On one
hand, they are keeping animals in cages which feels wrong to me. On the
other hand, zoos, aquariums, etc. have come a long way since the day of the
bear in the concrete cage staring out through the bars. Nowadays most zoos
are into wildlife research, reproduction, animal-trading with other zoos to
breed species whose decline in the wild is bordering on extinction, etc. And
they also play a big role in educating the public about the dangers to our
earth's wild areas. So does the good they do balance out the bad? Or does
the bad of keeping wild animals caged outweigh the good of perhaps saving
the whole species? Would panda bears be extinct now if people didn't see how
magical they are up close and therefore send money, time, and energy to
organizations to keep their remaining habitat safe? The Oregon Coast
Aquarium, where we went, has some measure of fame because of their efforts
to rehabilitate Keiko (the orca from "Free Willy") and return him to the
wild. Is supporting this a good thing? Right now, we do go to the aquarium,
and to the zoo. We don't go to the circus because I feel that it doesn't
have any redeeming qualities, the animals are only there for entertainment
and no research or educational benefit is present.

A long-winded reply to a question that for me doesn't have an absolute
answer.

Blue Skies!
   -Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers   Flying Clevenger Family



Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

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