[email protected]

Hi--I am also new to the list. We are very interested in unschooling and feel
that we have been doing this--to a degree--since our first child was born.
Since we "officially" decided not to put our children into public school, I
have found unschooling.com and this email list to be extremely informative.
Thanks!

My question is to the people discussing limiting TV. My 5 year old is not
limited on the computer and we do not have nintendo, gameboy, etc. BUT--he
LOVES the TV. My 3 yr old never watched TV--not even Barney :) But suddenly
she watches it whenever her brother watches it. I do limit TV --my son has
to ask me to watch it and then I give my answer and usually its a yes if I
can't entice him to do something else right at that moment. I know this is
probably a big "no no" right? How did any of you deal w/TV specifically at
this young age (5 and under). Do you feel there is a difference when they are
young? or no difference at all? My son does not seem to resent this set up at
this point but I'm sure that may change--any advice appreciated. Thanks! Merri

Jon and Rue Kream

Ever since my kids began to talk, when they say they want to watch tv I say,
oh how many shows are you going to watch? They usually say one or two.
This seems to help them think about how much time they want to spend doing
it, where otherwise they would just vegetate all day (which they sometimes
choose to do). I don't turn off the tv if they change their minds, or try
to convince them to watch the amount of tv I think they "should" watch. It
has always been totally their decision. They know why I ask the question,
and they are very responsible tv viewers - probably more so than I am. -Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: jamces3@... [mailto:jamces3@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] another tv question


Hi--I am also new to the list. We are very interested in unschooling and
feel
that we have been doing this--to a degree--since our first child was born.
Since we "officially" decided not to put our children into public school, I
have found unschooling.com and this email list to be extremely informative.
Thanks!

My question is to the people discussing limiting TV. My 5 year old is not
limited on the computer and we do not have nintendo, gameboy, etc. BUT--he
LOVES the TV. My 3 yr old never watched TV--not even Barney :) But suddenly
she watches it whenever her brother watches it. I do limit TV --my son has
to ask me to watch it and then I give my answer and usually its a yes if I
can't entice him to do something else right at that moment. I know this is
probably a big "no no" right? How did any of you deal w/TV specifically at
this young age (5 and under). Do you feel there is a difference when they
are
young? or no difference at all? My son does not seem to resent this set up
at
this point but I'm sure that may change--any advice appreciated. Thanks!
Merri


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[email protected]

In a message dated 3/28/01 4:46:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, jamces3@...
writes:

<< I do limit TV --my son has
to ask me to watch it and then I give my answer and usually its a yes if I
can't entice him to do something else right at that moment. I know this is
probably a big "no no" right? How did any of you deal w/TV specifically at
this young age (5 and under). Do you feel there is a difference when they
are
young? or no difference at all? My son does not seem to resent this set up
at
this point but I'm sure that may change--any advice appreciated. Thanks!
Merri >>

Hi Merri

Personally I believe that limiting any interest does not reflect the ideals
of unschooling. My TV is on all the time and my kids would rather do just
about anything else. During the summer they rarely watch because we are
outside so much. When I suggest an activity they show NO hesitation to leave
the TV. Even when it's on they are usually doing something else.

Kris

Collette Mattingly

Robin,
Just curious, if you're vegetarian how come you go to the aquarium?  We're vegan for the animals sake and for us caging animals is another injustice.
Collette
----- Original Message -----
From: DiamondAir
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:54 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

   From: louisaem@...
>Personally I believe that limiting any interest does not reflect the ideals
>of unschooling.  My TV is on all the time and my kids would rather do just
>about anything else.  During the summer they rarely watch because we are
>outside so much.  When I suggest an activity they show NO hesitation to
>leave
>the TV.  Even when it's on they are usually doing something else.


Hmmmm, I'd have to say I respectfully disagree with this one. Unschooling to
me means child-led learning, it does not mean that I give my kids free reign
to do whatever they want whenever they want to. There are things in life
that we limit, because of our own principles. For instance, in our family
we're vegetarians, we boycott all Nestle products, we don't allow toy guns
in our house, we ride our bicycles instead of taking our car, we buy almost
everything second-hand, and we don't watch TV. All of these things, we
believe are for the overall health and well-being of our family and/or for
the health and well-being of our earth.and other people. Are we not
unschooling because we're vegetarian?? Not unschooling because we won't buy
our son a mini replica Uzi? Not unschooling because we don't watch the
television? Not unschooling because our kids have to bicycle instead of
riding in the car? To me, unschooling is not a list of things we do or do
not do, it's a mind-set that allows my children to learn by following their
own interests instead of being told what to learn, when, and where. I
*don't* believe that means I have to allow them access to every single way
to learn things. Sure, they could learn anatomy and human sexuality by
watching porn movies. They could learn about hurricanes by watching TV.
Both, *I personally* believe are damaging. And why do I think TV is
damaging? Because young children don't have the mental context to place the
images they see in. Sure, my son might be watching a show about hurricanes,
but he will also see commercials where it is implied that you need this,
that, or the other product in order to be happy in life. He will see ads for
things that we are not going to buy (for frugality and earth-saving reasons)
and that until that point he didn't know existed (thus making his life and
ours so much happier, not to know about all the things you can't have :-).
He will also see ads for other programs with guns blazing or scantily clad
people pawing each other. At some point in his life, he'll be able to put
these images in a context, but it's pretty clear that right now all they do
is cause him concern, judging by the way he's reacted when he's seen them.
He's an extraordinarily sensitive child and I'd like to see him keep his
"magic" for a few more years.

I also think it's dangerous to generalize from one's own personal
experiences to every other person. I hear people say "We have candy out all
the time and my kids never touch it", or "we have the TV on all the time and
my kids rarely watch it". Well this is great, and it may work quite well for
those individual families. I also know families that have candy out all the
time and their kids are 40 pounds overweight. And I know families
that have the TV on all the time and the kids are glued to it like
little sponges for 7 hours a day. So much depends on individual kids and the
preferences and innate personalities they were born with, as well as the
family environment. All of this "it's unschooling to do this", "it's not
unschooling if you do that", "some people CALL themselves unschoolers but
they're really not", etc. (not just responding to this particular post but
to many in the same vein) remind me of my high school punk rock days. It was
"punk" to do this, but "poser" to do that. I could never keep it all
straight and I still can't. If I wasn't "punk" because I wore Birkenstocks
with my mohawk, and I'm not "unschooling" because I limit TV, well so be it
I guess :-)

Blue Skies!
   -Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers   Flying Clevenger Family




Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

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DiamondAir

From: louisaem@...
>Personally I believe that limiting any interest does not reflect the ideals
>of unschooling. My TV is on all the time and my kids would rather do just
>about anything else. During the summer they rarely watch because we are
>outside so much. When I suggest an activity they show NO hesitation to
>leave
>the TV. Even when it's on they are usually doing something else.


Hmmmm, I'd have to say I respectfully disagree with this one. Unschooling to
me means child-led learning, it does not mean that I give my kids free reign
to do whatever they want whenever they want to. There are things in life
that we limit, because of our own principles. For instance, in our family
we're vegetarians, we boycott all Nestle products, we don't allow toy guns
in our house, we ride our bicycles instead of taking our car, we buy almost
everything second-hand, and we don't watch TV. All of these things, we
believe are for the overall health and well-being of our family and/or for
the health and well-being of our earth.and other people. Are we not
unschooling because we're vegetarian?? Not unschooling because we won't buy
our son a mini replica Uzi? Not unschooling because we don't watch the
television? Not unschooling because our kids have to bicycle instead of
riding in the car? To me, unschooling is not a list of things we do or do
not do, it's a mind-set that allows my children to learn by following their
own interests instead of being told what to learn, when, and where. I
*don't* believe that means I have to allow them access to every single way
to learn things. Sure, they could learn anatomy and human sexuality by
watching porn movies. They could learn about hurricanes by watching TV.
Both, *I personally* believe are damaging. And why do I think TV is
damaging? Because young children don't have the mental context to place the
images they see in. Sure, my son might be watching a show about hurricanes,
but he will also see commercials where it is implied that you need this,
that, or the other product in order to be happy in life. He will see ads for
things that we are not going to buy (for frugality and earth-saving reasons)
and that until that point he didn't know existed (thus making his life and
ours so much happier, not to know about all the things you can't have :-).
He will also see ads for other programs with guns blazing or scantily clad
people pawing each other. At some point in his life, he'll be able to put
these images in a context, but it's pretty clear that right now all they do
is cause him concern, judging by the way he's reacted when he's seen them.
He's an extraordinarily sensitive child and I'd like to see him keep his
"magic" for a few more years.

I also think it's dangerous to generalize from one's own personal
experiences to every other person. I hear people say "We have candy out all
the time and my kids never touch it", or "we have the TV on all the time and
my kids rarely watch it". Well this is great, and it may work quite well for
those individual families. I also know families that have candy out all the
time and their kids are 40 pounds overweight. And I know families
that have the TV on all the time and the kids are glued to it like
little sponges for 7 hours a day. So much depends on individual kids and the
preferences and innate personalities they were born with, as well as the
family environment. All of this "it's unschooling to do this", "it's not
unschooling if you do that", "some people CALL themselves unschoolers but
they're really not", etc. (not just responding to this particular post but
to many in the same vein) remind me of my high school punk rock days. It was
"punk" to do this, but "poser" to do that. I could never keep it all
straight and I still can't. If I wasn't "punk" because I wore Birkenstocks
with my mohawk, and I'm not "unschooling" because I limit TV, well so be it
I guess :-)

Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family

Johanna

Excellent post, Robin. Homeschooling gives us the advantage of being sensitive to what "our"(we don't really own them) children can handle and are ready for. Sometimes we must set limits. Unschooling as I understand it means my children learn as they want. I have one son who hardly watches TV but my oldest daughter would sit in front of it morning till night if I let her. She has even thanked me later for making her shut it off! As adults we need imut from our friend and family sometimes when our lives are not in balance. By that I don't mean I listen to everything people have to say and agree, but I listen and see if they are right.
Johanna
 
----- Original Message -----
From: DiamondAir
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:54 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

   From: louisaem@...
>Personally I believe that limiting any interest does not reflect the ideals
>of unschooling.  My TV is on all the time and my kids would rather do just
>about anything else.  During the summer they rarely watch because we are
>outside so much.  When I suggest an activity they show NO hesitation to
>leave
>the TV.  Even when it's on they are usually doing something else.


Hmmmm, I'd have to say I respectfully disagree with this one. Unschooling to
me means child-led learning, it does not mean that I give my kids free reign
to do whatever they want whenever they want to. There are things in life
that we limit, because of our own principles. For instance, in our family
we're vegetarians, we boycott all Nestle products, we don't allow toy guns
in our house, we ride our bicycles instead of taking our car, we buy almost
everything second-hand, and we don't watch TV. All of these things, we
believe are for the overall health and well-being of our family and/or for
the health and well-being of our earth.and other people. Are we not
unschooling because we're vegetarian?? Not unschooling because we won't buy
our son a mini replica Uzi? Not unschooling because we don't watch the
television? Not unschooling because our kids have to bicycle instead of
riding in the car? To me, unschooling is not a list of things we do or do
not do, it's a mind-set that allows my children to learn by following their
own interests instead of being told what to learn, when, and where. I
*don't* believe that means I have to allow them access to every single way
to learn things. Sure, they could learn anatomy and human sexuality by
watching porn movies. They could learn about hurricanes by watching TV.
Both, *I personally* believe are damaging. And why do I think TV is
damaging? Because young children don't have the mental context to place the
images they see in. Sure, my son might be watching a show about hurricanes,
but he will also see commercials where it is implied that you need this,
that, or the other product in order to be happy in life. He will see ads for
things that we are not going to buy (for frugality and earth-saving reasons)
and that until that point he didn't know existed (thus making his life and
ours so much happier, not to know about all the things you can't have :-).
He will also see ads for other programs with guns blazing or scantily clad
people pawing each other. At some point in his life, he'll be able to put
these images in a context, but it's pretty clear that right now all they do
is cause him concern, judging by the way he's reacted when he's seen them.
He's an extraordinarily sensitive child and I'd like to see him keep his
"magic" for a few more years.

I also think it's dangerous to generalize from one's own personal
experiences to every other person. I hear people say "We have candy out all
the time and my kids never touch it", or "we have the TV on all the time and
my kids rarely watch it". Well this is great, and it may work quite well for
those individual families. I also know families that have candy out all the
time and their kids are 40 pounds overweight. And I know families
that have the TV on all the time and the kids are glued to it like
little sponges for 7 hours a day. So much depends on individual kids and the
preferences and innate personalities they were born with, as well as the
family environment. All of this "it's unschooling to do this", "it's not
unschooling if you do that", "some people CALL themselves unschoolers but
they're really not", etc. (not just responding to this particular post but
to many in the same vein) remind me of my high school punk rock days. It was
"punk" to do this, but "poser" to do that. I could never keep it all
straight and I still can't. If I wasn't "punk" because I wore Birkenstocks
with my mohawk, and I'm not "unschooling" because I limit TV, well so be it
I guess :-)

Blue Skies!
   -Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers   Flying Clevenger Family




Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

Addresses:
Post message: [email protected]
Unsubscribe: [email protected]
List owner: [email protected]
List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/29/01 3:45:57 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
diamondair@... writes:

<< Unschooling to
me means child-led learning, it does not mean that I give my kids free reign
to do whatever they want whenever they want to. There are things in life
that we limit, because of our own principles >>


Sorry about that. I was reading my emails backwards. Now I see that earlier
there were several posts about limiting content not just time. Thanks VERY
much--esp. Nina, Johanna, Samantha, Robin--definitely helped me out. I'd have
to say that I am more in agreement with your thoughts. But I understand
everyone's points and appreciate your time--Thanks!
Merri

DiamondAir

> From: "Collette Mattingly" <collettemattingly@...>
> Robin,
> Just curious, if you're vegetarian how come you go to the aquarium? We're
vegan for the animals sake and for us caging animals is another injustice.
> Collette


Hmmm, that's a very thought-provoking question and has a couple of different
facets to it. We're vegetarians for many different reasons. I guess the
first and foremost would be for the earth's sake. The amount of water,
energy, chemicals, land abuse, etc. needed to sustain production of meat
animals is horrific on the environment. Secondly would be health reasons, we
eat organic produce or stuff we grow ourselves, I don't want to be putting
meat into our bodies that has hormones, fertilizers, pesticides, etc. in it,
and also I feel that meat doesn't feel "right" to my body on a cellular
level (I've been a veggie for going on 20 years now, it was when I started
exercising and came to a better awareness of my body that I first felt how
wrong it felt for my own body to eat meat). Thirdly would be animal-loving
reasons as the way most meat animals are raised and slaughtered is pretty
inhumane. But I'm not totally against eating meat for this reason - if it
was like my ancestors where it was myself, a deer , and an arrow, I'd most
likely shoot the deer. After all, the mountain lion would be doing the same
thing, nature is in itself fairly cruel to animals across the board. But
modern methods go above and beyond in the cruelty department and so I don't
like to support them.

That brings us to the aquarium. This is an issue I've gone back and forth on
for many years. Do I go to zoos, circuses, wild animal parks, or not? On one
hand, they are keeping animals in cages which feels wrong to me. On the
other hand, zoos, aquariums, etc. have come a long way since the day of the
bear in the concrete cage staring out through the bars. Nowadays most zoos
are into wildlife research, reproduction, animal-trading with other zoos to
breed species whose decline in the wild is bordering on extinction, etc. And
they also play a big role in educating the public about the dangers to our
earth's wild areas. So does the good they do balance out the bad? Or does
the bad of keeping wild animals caged outweigh the good of perhaps saving
the whole species? Would panda bears be extinct now if people didn't see how
magical they are up close and therefore send money, time, and energy to
organizations to keep their remaining habitat safe? The Oregon Coast
Aquarium, where we went, has some measure of fame because of their efforts
to rehabilitate Keiko (the orca from "Free Willy") and return him to the
wild. Is supporting this a good thing? Right now, we do go to the aquarium,
and to the zoo. We don't go to the circus because I feel that it doesn't
have any redeeming qualities, the animals are only there for entertainment
and no research or educational benefit is present.

A long-winded reply to a question that for me doesn't have an absolute
answer.

Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family

Bobbie

our tv is on all the time. pbs, nickjr, disney,
discovery,travel,animal planet, a "cooking
show"....the possibilities are endless with cable.
before cable, pbs was on all the time...from sesame
street until charlie rose started and he just bugs us
all so we turn it off until arthur or dragontales.
they are NOT the type to sit still and watch it for
those HOURS in a row... but they have it on to kinda
watch while they draw, play, flip, jump on the
furniture or me, run in and out of the backyard and
house, tracking mud from their "experiments"
everywhere... They watch movies for a nice sit down
treat...or at least half a movie, anyway. :) I don't
think it does anything bad to them unless they are
watching something "bad" or not age appropriate. It
fuels their imaginations and vocabularies and like
someone else said sometimes they couldn't be MADE to
watch tv. But they learned at a very early age how to
spell "play" "stop/eject" "POWER" "vol" "chan" "video"
"VCR", etc, etc...
that's my little input.
-Bobbie


__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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Bobbie

woo hoo! you tell 'em, Robin!! That was a very well
written, explained, clear post and I enjoyed it,
thankyouverymuch. I especially liked the punk and
poser bit. ;)
-Bobbie

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DiamondAir
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:54 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv
> question
>
>
> From: louisaem@...
> >Personally I believe that limiting any interest
> does not reflect the ideals
> >of unschooling. My TV is on all the time and my
> kids would rather do just
> >about anything else. During the summer they
> rarely watch because we are
> >outside so much. When I suggest an activity they
> show NO hesitation to
> >leave
> >the TV. Even when it's on they are usually doing
> something else.
>
>
> Hmmmm, I'd have to say I respectfully disagree
> with this one. Unschooling to
> me means child-led learning, it does not mean that
> I give my kids free reign
> to do whatever they want whenever they want to.
> There are things in life
> that we limit, because of our own principles. For
> instance, in our family
> we're vegetarians, we boycott all Nestle products,
> we don't allow toy guns
> in our house, we ride our bicycles instead of
> taking our car, we buy almost
> everything second-hand, and we don't watch TV. All
> of these things, we
> believe are for the overall health and well-being
> of our family and/or for
> the health and well-being of our earth.and other
> people. Are we not
> unschooling because we're vegetarian?? Not
> unschooling because we won't buy
> our son a mini replica Uzi? Not unschooling
> because we don't watch the
> television? Not unschooling because our kids have
> to bicycle instead of
> riding in the car? To me, unschooling is not a
> list of things we do or do
> not do, it's a mind-set that allows my children to
> learn by following their
> own interests instead of being told what to learn,
> when, and where. I
> *don't* believe that means I have to allow them
> access to every single way
> to learn things. Sure, they could learn anatomy
> and human sexuality by
> watching porn movies. They could learn about
> hurricanes by watching TV.
> Both, *I personally* believe are damaging. And why
> do I think TV is
> damaging? Because young children don't have the
> mental context to place the
> images they see in. Sure, my son might be watching
> a show about hurricanes,
> but he will also see commercials where it is
> implied that you need this,
> that, or the other product in order to be happy in
> life. He will see ads for
> things that we are not going to buy (for frugality
> and earth-saving reasons)
> and that until that point he didn't know existed
> (thus making his life and
> ours so much happier, not to know about all the
> things you can't have :-).
> He will also see ads for other programs with guns
> blazing or scantily clad
> people pawing each other. At some point in his
> life, he'll be able to put
> these images in a context, but it's pretty clear
> that right now all they do
> is cause him concern, judging by the way he's
> reacted when he's seen them.
> He's an extraordinarily sensitive child and I'd
> like to see him keep his
> "magic" for a few more years.
>
> I also think it's dangerous to generalize from
> one's own personal
> experiences to every other person. I hear people
> say "We have candy out all
> the time and my kids never touch it", or "we have
> the TV on all the time and
> my kids rarely watch it". Well this is great, and
> it may work quite well for
> those individual families. I also know families
> that have candy out all the
> time and their kids are 40 pounds overweight. And
> I know families
> that have the TV on all the time and the kids are
> glued to it like
> little sponges for 7 hours a day. So much depends
> on individual kids and the
> preferences and innate personalities they were
> born with, as well as the
> family environment. All of this "it's unschooling
> to do this", "it's not
> unschooling if you do that", "some people CALL
> themselves unschoolers but
> they're really not", etc. (not just responding to
> this particular post but
> to many in the same vein) remind me of my high
> school punk rock days. It was
> "punk" to do this, but "poser" to do that. I could
> never keep it all
> straight and I still can't. If I wasn't "punk"
> because I wore Birkenstocks
> with my mohawk, and I'm not "unschooling" because
> I limit TV, well so be it
> I guess :-)
>
> Blue Skies!
> -Robin-
> Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going
> to grow up to be a
> weirdo"
> and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the
> aquarium, her favorite place
> in the world
> http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying
> Clevenger Family
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter
> and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe:
> [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>


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I am not sure who it was who said something about, is it the TV that
makes a person inactive, or is it an inactive person who is more
likely to watch TV ?- or words to that effect!!

My dd is not active. She does not like sport, or anything very
physical, not even walking! She preferes to be doing some thing
quiet. She will sit for hours writting out songs while listening to
them on the radio. Drawing, reading (occasionally), writting
letters, doodling. My grandsons on the other hand are very active,
especially the elder one - sitting watching TV would be his very last
choice!

Yes, like your family Bobbie, my dd will do other things while the TV
is one. Some times i dont think she has any idea what is on Tv, it
is just back ground noise.
I do often find if i start to do some thing - sewing for example, my
dd will come over and say "My turn!" - but she would never dream of
getting the sewing machine out!!!!

marianne

Erin Sutka

This question was very thought provoking for myself as well, we are also a vegetarian family and I think your response hit the nail right on the head for me!!
 

Erin

esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: DiamondAir [mailto:diamondair@...]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 1:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: another tv question

>    From: "Collette Mattingly" <collettemattingly@...>
> Robin,
> Just curious, if you're vegetarian how come you go to the aquarium?  We're
vegan for the animals sake and for us caging animals is another injustice.
> Collette


Hmmm, that's a very thought-provoking question and has a couple of different
facets to it. We're vegetarians for many different reasons. I guess the
first and foremost would be for the earth's sake. The amount of water,
energy, chemicals, land abuse, etc. needed to sustain production of meat
animals is horrific on the environment. Secondly would be health reasons, we
eat organic produce or stuff we grow ourselves, I don't want to be putting
meat into our bodies that has hormones, fertilizers, pesticides, etc. in it,
and also I feel that meat doesn't feel "right" to my body on a cellular
level (I've been a veggie for going on 20 years now, it was when I started
exercising and came to a better awareness of my body that I first felt how
wrong it felt for my own body to eat meat). Thirdly would be animal-loving
reasons as the way most meat animals are raised and slaughtered is pretty
inhumane. But I'm not totally against eating meat for this reason - if it
was like my ancestors where it was myself, a deer , and an arrow, I'd most
likely shoot the deer. After all, the mountain lion would be doing the same
thing, nature is in itself fairly cruel to animals across the board. But
modern methods go above and beyond in the cruelty department and so I don't
like to support them.

That brings us to the aquarium. This is an issue I've gone back and forth on
for many years. Do I go to zoos, circuses, wild animal parks, or not? On one
hand, they are keeping animals in cages which feels wrong to me. On the
other hand, zoos, aquariums, etc. have come a long way since the day of the
bear in the concrete cage staring out through the bars. Nowadays most zoos
are into wildlife research, reproduction, animal-trading with other zoos to
breed species whose decline in the wild is bordering on extinction, etc. And
they also play a big role in educating the public about the dangers to our
earth's wild areas. So does the good they do balance out the bad? Or does
the bad of keeping wild animals caged outweigh the good of perhaps saving
the whole species? Would panda bears be extinct now if people didn't see how
magical they are up close and therefore send money, time, and energy to
organizations to keep their remaining habitat safe? The Oregon Coast
Aquarium, where we went, has some measure of fame because of their efforts
to rehabilitate Keiko (the orca from "Free Willy") and return him to the
wild. Is supporting this a good thing? Right now, we do go to the aquarium,
and to the zoo. We don't go to the circus because I feel that it doesn't
have any redeeming qualities, the animals are only there for entertainment
and no research or educational benefit is present.

A long-winded reply to a question that for me doesn't have an absolute
answer.

Blue Skies!
   -Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers   Flying Clevenger Family



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