Re: Re: Need Opinions
[email protected]
I appreciate your sharing that view. It's hard to let go of those
artificial divisions of life into subjects! I do think, though, that you
are referring more to deschooling, than unschooling. When I play Yahtzee
with my kids, I'm not telling them that they are doing math. I'm not
playing the game with them so that I can check math off from the daily
curriculum. I'm playing because we enjoy playing the game. But I AM
thinking in my head that they are learning math skills, along with good
sportsmanship, manual dexterity in manipulating the dice, practice
writing numbers, etc. So I still believe that THEY are unschooling,
because we are just people in a family playing a game because we want to.
And in order to play that game, you need to roll dice, add up the
numbers, and recognize patterns. I am the one who needs to DESCHOOL MY
brain so that I'm not always analyzing everything they do. I'm not a
teacher, but it's almost scary how well I can describe their activities
in "educationeze". SSR is a common activity in our house. For those who
don't know, SSR is "silent sustained reading", also known as reading a
book to oneself! I would never decide how much time my kids should spend
reading, but if they tell me that they are bored, reading a book is one
of the many things that I might suggest.
Mary Ellen
Whose kids both learned the numerals for 0 through 9 by using the
telephone.
(See, I just can't help myself! But they were the ones who wanted to
make the calls and wanted to dial it themselves.)
For us unschooling is letting go of thinking about things in terms of
math,
or science, or history, or whatever other subject. This is one of the
things that makes it so difficult (morally and actually) to fill out
progress reports for the school system. When we play a game, it's only
because we feel like playing a game. I can honestly say I never think
about
whether the kids have done enough math this week, or this year, or ever.
So, from our point of view, it is not "strictly unschooling" to put math
into our child's schedule. For me it would feel like a violation of
trust
to let my child think I am just playing with them, while really I was
hoping
to teach them something without their noticing. And to combat the
inherent
email communication problems, I'll just tell you now that I'm not judging
anyone, I'm just sharing our viewpoint, and what unschooling means to
s:). -Rue
artificial divisions of life into subjects! I do think, though, that you
are referring more to deschooling, than unschooling. When I play Yahtzee
with my kids, I'm not telling them that they are doing math. I'm not
playing the game with them so that I can check math off from the daily
curriculum. I'm playing because we enjoy playing the game. But I AM
thinking in my head that they are learning math skills, along with good
sportsmanship, manual dexterity in manipulating the dice, practice
writing numbers, etc. So I still believe that THEY are unschooling,
because we are just people in a family playing a game because we want to.
And in order to play that game, you need to roll dice, add up the
numbers, and recognize patterns. I am the one who needs to DESCHOOL MY
brain so that I'm not always analyzing everything they do. I'm not a
teacher, but it's almost scary how well I can describe their activities
in "educationeze". SSR is a common activity in our house. For those who
don't know, SSR is "silent sustained reading", also known as reading a
book to oneself! I would never decide how much time my kids should spend
reading, but if they tell me that they are bored, reading a book is one
of the many things that I might suggest.
Mary Ellen
Whose kids both learned the numerals for 0 through 9 by using the
telephone.
(See, I just can't help myself! But they were the ones who wanted to
make the calls and wanted to dial it themselves.)
For us unschooling is letting go of thinking about things in terms of
math,
or science, or history, or whatever other subject. This is one of the
things that makes it so difficult (morally and actually) to fill out
progress reports for the school system. When we play a game, it's only
because we feel like playing a game. I can honestly say I never think
about
whether the kids have done enough math this week, or this year, or ever.
So, from our point of view, it is not "strictly unschooling" to put math
into our child's schedule. For me it would feel like a violation of
trust
to let my child think I am just playing with them, while really I was
hoping
to teach them something without their noticing. And to combat the
inherent
email communication problems, I'll just tell you now that I'm not judging
anyone, I'm just sharing our viewpoint, and what unschooling means to
s:). -Rue
Jon and Rue Kream
Good points. I guess what I'm saying is that -I- don't think about whether
they're learning math skills or manual dexterity or whatever, really, ever.
Does that make me deschooled? Yay! And what a nice civil conversation we
were able to have :).
This made me think of something else. I get asked a lot if my kids get
bored. Would any of you say that your kids get bored more or less than the
schooled kids that you know?
-Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: megates@... [mailto:megates@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 4:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Re: Need Opinions
I appreciate your sharing that view. It's hard to let go of those
artificial divisions of life into subjects! I do think, though, that you
are referring more to deschooling, than unschooling. When I play Yahtzee
with my kids, I'm not telling them that they are doing math. I'm not
playing the game with them so that I can check math off from the daily
curriculum. I'm playing because we enjoy playing the game. But I AM
thinking in my head that they are learning math skills, along with good
sportsmanship, manual dexterity in manipulating the dice, practice
writing numbers, etc. So I still believe that THEY are unschooling,
because we are just people in a family playing a game because we want to.
And in order to play that game, you need to roll dice, add up the
numbers, and recognize patterns. I am the one who needs to DESCHOOL MY
brain so that I'm not always analyzing everything they do. I'm not a
teacher, but it's almost scary how well I can describe their activities
in "educationeze". SSR is a common activity in our house. For those who
don't know, SSR is "silent sustained reading", also known as reading a
book to oneself! I would never decide how much time my kids should spend
reading, but if they tell me that they are bored, reading a book is one
of the many things that I might suggest.
Mary Ellen
Whose kids both learned the numerals for 0 through 9 by using the
telephone.
(See, I just can't help myself! But they were the ones who wanted to
make the calls and wanted to dial it themselves.)
For us unschooling is letting go of thinking about things in terms of
math,
or science, or history, or whatever other subject. This is one of the
things that makes it so difficult (morally and actually) to fill out
progress reports for the school system. When we play a game, it's only
because we feel like playing a game. I can honestly say I never think
about
whether the kids have done enough math this week, or this year, or ever.
So, from our point of view, it is not "strictly unschooling" to put math
into our child's schedule. For me it would feel like a violation of
trust
to let my child think I am just playing with them, while really I was
hoping
to teach them something without their noticing. And to combat the
inherent
email communication problems, I'll just tell you now that I'm not judging
anyone, I'm just sharing our viewpoint, and what unschooling means to
s:). -Rue
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Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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they're learning math skills or manual dexterity or whatever, really, ever.
Does that make me deschooled? Yay! And what a nice civil conversation we
were able to have :).
This made me think of something else. I get asked a lot if my kids get
bored. Would any of you say that your kids get bored more or less than the
schooled kids that you know?
-Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: megates@... [mailto:megates@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 4:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Re: Need Opinions
I appreciate your sharing that view. It's hard to let go of those
artificial divisions of life into subjects! I do think, though, that you
are referring more to deschooling, than unschooling. When I play Yahtzee
with my kids, I'm not telling them that they are doing math. I'm not
playing the game with them so that I can check math off from the daily
curriculum. I'm playing because we enjoy playing the game. But I AM
thinking in my head that they are learning math skills, along with good
sportsmanship, manual dexterity in manipulating the dice, practice
writing numbers, etc. So I still believe that THEY are unschooling,
because we are just people in a family playing a game because we want to.
And in order to play that game, you need to roll dice, add up the
numbers, and recognize patterns. I am the one who needs to DESCHOOL MY
brain so that I'm not always analyzing everything they do. I'm not a
teacher, but it's almost scary how well I can describe their activities
in "educationeze". SSR is a common activity in our house. For those who
don't know, SSR is "silent sustained reading", also known as reading a
book to oneself! I would never decide how much time my kids should spend
reading, but if they tell me that they are bored, reading a book is one
of the many things that I might suggest.
Mary Ellen
Whose kids both learned the numerals for 0 through 9 by using the
telephone.
(See, I just can't help myself! But they were the ones who wanted to
make the calls and wanted to dial it themselves.)
For us unschooling is letting go of thinking about things in terms of
math,
or science, or history, or whatever other subject. This is one of the
things that makes it so difficult (morally and actually) to fill out
progress reports for the school system. When we play a game, it's only
because we feel like playing a game. I can honestly say I never think
about
whether the kids have done enough math this week, or this year, or ever.
So, from our point of view, it is not "strictly unschooling" to put math
into our child's schedule. For me it would feel like a violation of
trust
to let my child think I am just playing with them, while really I was
hoping
to teach them something without their noticing. And to combat the
inherent
email communication problems, I'll just tell you now that I'm not judging
anyone, I'm just sharing our viewpoint, and what unschooling means to
s:). -Rue
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
Addresses:
Post message: [email protected]
Unsubscribe: [email protected]
List owner: [email protected]
List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[email protected]
With regards to the boredom issue with schooled vs unschooled children, my
experience is that schooled (as in forcibly attending an institution)get
bored more quickly with boring things! As in things they are not interested
in, have never been interested in, and are being taught in such a way as to
ensure that any hope of any future interest is killed stone dead!
There is emotion in this passage as my poor niece has just had her interest
in Dickens awakened by me, only to have her new found interest qustioned by
her teacher as 'irrelevent to her current curriculum.'
Grr.
regards all
Caroline
experience is that schooled (as in forcibly attending an institution)get
bored more quickly with boring things! As in things they are not interested
in, have never been interested in, and are being taught in such a way as to
ensure that any hope of any future interest is killed stone dead!
There is emotion in this passage as my poor niece has just had her interest
in Dickens awakened by me, only to have her new found interest qustioned by
her teacher as 'irrelevent to her current curriculum.'
Grr.
regards all
Caroline
[email protected]
In a message dated 02/22/2001 10:19:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
skreams@... writes:
It's hard to judge -- I don't live with any schooled kids. But "bored" here
means they are bugging me. So I tell them to go outside. Pretty soon they
are digging or building and not bored.
NAnce
skreams@... writes:
I get asked a lot if my kids get
bored. Would any of you say that your kids get bored more or less than the
schooled kids that you know?
-Rue
It's hard to judge -- I don't live with any schooled kids. But "bored" here
means they are bugging me. So I tell them to go outside. Pretty soon they
are digging or building and not bored.
NAnce
[email protected]
Yes, Rue, I think you qualify as deschooled!
As for me, I am at least very grateful that I learned about homeschooling
when my children were so young that they have never been to school. At
least they don't need to be deschooled. (Anybody read the book
"Deschooling Our Lives", edited by Matt Hern? I'd also like to read the
Unjobbing Handbook. The Teenage Liberation Handbook is wonderful too.)
As far as boredom: my kids don't seem to say they are bored very often.
Sometimes it seems to mean they are just tired and don't feel like
beginning anything. They are most likely to be bored after they have
spent a LOT of time playing with other kids.
I'm currently reading "Living Mindfully With Children".
Mary Ellen
alarm clock - n. a device for waking up people
who don't have small children.
As for me, I am at least very grateful that I learned about homeschooling
when my children were so young that they have never been to school. At
least they don't need to be deschooled. (Anybody read the book
"Deschooling Our Lives", edited by Matt Hern? I'd also like to read the
Unjobbing Handbook. The Teenage Liberation Handbook is wonderful too.)
As far as boredom: my kids don't seem to say they are bored very often.
Sometimes it seems to mean they are just tired and don't feel like
beginning anything. They are most likely to be bored after they have
spent a LOT of time playing with other kids.
I'm currently reading "Living Mindfully With Children".
Mary Ellen
alarm clock - n. a device for waking up people
who don't have small children.
Bobbie
--- megates@... wrote:
late....don't even ASK why...)
who wrote this book? Can anyone tell me a bit more
about it?
It sounds like a good one for my boyfriend. He's right
now doing the working on the "ground floor" of the
company thing...(his dad's company)...he programs the
database and helps produce the products for this
publishing company that he has invested alot of time
and energy into over awhile....and he basically cannot
be replaced right now very easily. The problem(s)? He
is getting burned out, and has to work long hours
right now while things are getting underway with this
new project...He doesn't get paid what they would have
to pay someone else to do the job and put as much work
into it...you know how it is when you are helping out
family... AND he is an artist...really good with real
people caricitures...
AND my sister/me, etc...(our family tends to move
together, business wise)...used to travel around from
fair to festival and back again, etc, etc...doing "wax
hands" (sculptures out of people's hands in
wax..holding roses dipped in wax...etc..)...until my
dad had his stroke and we stayed in phx. for awhile...
and after he died we moved back here...and we had a
store in the mall for a little while but it wasn't
working out so my sis is going on the road again, cuz
she can make good money at it, and well...it's fun. we
like it. Me and my son went with her when he was 2 and
I was pregnant with dd and it was fabulous. I think
it's great for the kids. Anyway, my boyfriend really
wants to go on the road too now, doing caricitures or
something....and hm...how to put it...he is such a
carefree laidback hippie person at heart, but right
now his job (where he works with mostly older business
men, and business-minded investors and advertisers)
requires him to be the opposite and deal with things
as though he IS an older business-minded man, when he
is only 26 and wants to travel and draw and unschool,
but worries alot about what other people think. (and
his family thinks the idea is crazy) He thinks about
everything very logically by nature, which is good,
especially with me cuz sometimes I lack in that area,
and am TOO spontaneous. His problem here comes in with
lack of confidence that he can actually make a living
drawing and not having a "real job" and that be OKAY,
with letting go of the whole "how much money per hour"
concept, and ...well, just letting go and doing
something that everyone else (especially people who
have never made a living this way) may think is crazy.
I was talking to him this morning about going...(the
fair season is about to start and my sister was
talking to him about going)... and he really wants to
but I was trying to explain that he won't enjoy it if
he is in this mentality. I even compared it (in my
mind, to myself) to having to "deschool" him from the
way of thinking that he has to be in right now for his
job...and how it is the same cuz he will have to/is
having to defend himself and this "crazy, ridiculous"
idea of what to do right now to his family and
friends...his sister made a joke to me the other day
that he was going to run away with circus people...
she didn't want to "burst his bubble, though, by
saying something". They are well-meaning, but you
know, it's an off the wall thought to people who have
everything planned out before they do it...and there's
nothing wrong with that, but it is just very much not
me. whew. that was rambly. I missed this board. Thanks
for reading that whole thing. Any advice or ESPECIALLY
books and what not like that that anyone can offer
would be greatly appreciated. If he sees that other
people somewhere sometime have done it (with a family)
then he would feel alot better....like finding this
site and board did for me and
unschooling....strengthened my resolve, you might say.
-Bobbie
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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>I'd also like to read the(Once again Bobbie replies almost a month
> Unjobbing Handbook.
late....don't even ASK why...)
who wrote this book? Can anyone tell me a bit more
about it?
It sounds like a good one for my boyfriend. He's right
now doing the working on the "ground floor" of the
company thing...(his dad's company)...he programs the
database and helps produce the products for this
publishing company that he has invested alot of time
and energy into over awhile....and he basically cannot
be replaced right now very easily. The problem(s)? He
is getting burned out, and has to work long hours
right now while things are getting underway with this
new project...He doesn't get paid what they would have
to pay someone else to do the job and put as much work
into it...you know how it is when you are helping out
family... AND he is an artist...really good with real
people caricitures...
AND my sister/me, etc...(our family tends to move
together, business wise)...used to travel around from
fair to festival and back again, etc, etc...doing "wax
hands" (sculptures out of people's hands in
wax..holding roses dipped in wax...etc..)...until my
dad had his stroke and we stayed in phx. for awhile...
and after he died we moved back here...and we had a
store in the mall for a little while but it wasn't
working out so my sis is going on the road again, cuz
she can make good money at it, and well...it's fun. we
like it. Me and my son went with her when he was 2 and
I was pregnant with dd and it was fabulous. I think
it's great for the kids. Anyway, my boyfriend really
wants to go on the road too now, doing caricitures or
something....and hm...how to put it...he is such a
carefree laidback hippie person at heart, but right
now his job (where he works with mostly older business
men, and business-minded investors and advertisers)
requires him to be the opposite and deal with things
as though he IS an older business-minded man, when he
is only 26 and wants to travel and draw and unschool,
but worries alot about what other people think. (and
his family thinks the idea is crazy) He thinks about
everything very logically by nature, which is good,
especially with me cuz sometimes I lack in that area,
and am TOO spontaneous. His problem here comes in with
lack of confidence that he can actually make a living
drawing and not having a "real job" and that be OKAY,
with letting go of the whole "how much money per hour"
concept, and ...well, just letting go and doing
something that everyone else (especially people who
have never made a living this way) may think is crazy.
I was talking to him this morning about going...(the
fair season is about to start and my sister was
talking to him about going)... and he really wants to
but I was trying to explain that he won't enjoy it if
he is in this mentality. I even compared it (in my
mind, to myself) to having to "deschool" him from the
way of thinking that he has to be in right now for his
job...and how it is the same cuz he will have to/is
having to defend himself and this "crazy, ridiculous"
idea of what to do right now to his family and
friends...his sister made a joke to me the other day
that he was going to run away with circus people...
she didn't want to "burst his bubble, though, by
saying something". They are well-meaning, but you
know, it's an off the wall thought to people who have
everything planned out before they do it...and there's
nothing wrong with that, but it is just very much not
me. whew. that was rambly. I missed this board. Thanks
for reading that whole thing. Any advice or ESPECIALLY
books and what not like that that anyone can offer
would be greatly appreciated. If he sees that other
people somewhere sometime have done it (with a family)
then he would feel alot better....like finding this
site and board did for me and
unschooling....strengthened my resolve, you might say.
-Bobbie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/