messy vs. disorganized
Annette Naake
My house is a mess most of the time, which I wouldn't really care about,
except it seems we lose stuff in the mess, and then other stuff becomes
useless.
For instance, we have lost chess pieces, some playing cards, Mancala pieces,
parts of Transformers, crucial cards in a board game, dice, etc. Games seem
to be particular victims of this syndrome. All you have to lose is one or
two things out of a game and it becomes a lot less fun, if not impossible,
to play. The pieces get scattered around then the games are no good. This is
the downside of a messy house as far as I'm concerned. (We also lose bigger
things like books, reading glasses, remote controls and toys, but at least
they seem to show up eventually.)
Perhaps other people are better than I am at getting their kids to put away
their games when they decide to do something else ("when they are finished
with them" would be misleading, since they're always quitting halfway
through and running off without a glance backward). You would think that
after having puzzles, games, models and other items with small pieces
rendered unusable because parts had been lost, that they'd be more
conscientious, but nooooo. They don't waste much time regretting that their
games and puzzles are ruined, but I'm sorry about it because I think those
things offer valuable learning experiences (plus they cost money, after
all).
My boys are 8 and 4.
By the way, I have been on this list for a long time, and reading
everything, but lurking a lot lately.
Annette
_________________________________________________________________
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except it seems we lose stuff in the mess, and then other stuff becomes
useless.
For instance, we have lost chess pieces, some playing cards, Mancala pieces,
parts of Transformers, crucial cards in a board game, dice, etc. Games seem
to be particular victims of this syndrome. All you have to lose is one or
two things out of a game and it becomes a lot less fun, if not impossible,
to play. The pieces get scattered around then the games are no good. This is
the downside of a messy house as far as I'm concerned. (We also lose bigger
things like books, reading glasses, remote controls and toys, but at least
they seem to show up eventually.)
Perhaps other people are better than I am at getting their kids to put away
their games when they decide to do something else ("when they are finished
with them" would be misleading, since they're always quitting halfway
through and running off without a glance backward). You would think that
after having puzzles, games, models and other items with small pieces
rendered unusable because parts had been lost, that they'd be more
conscientious, but nooooo. They don't waste much time regretting that their
games and puzzles are ruined, but I'm sorry about it because I think those
things offer valuable learning experiences (plus they cost money, after
all).
My boys are 8 and 4.
By the way, I have been on this list for a long time, and reading
everything, but lurking a lot lately.
Annette
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
You would think that after having puzzles, games, models and other items with small pieces rendered unusable because parts had been lost, that they'd be more conscientious, but nooooo. They don't waste much time regretting that their games and puzzles are ruined, but I'm sorry about it because I think those things offer valuable learning experiences (plus they cost money, after
I have two boys too, a bit younger than yours. Several things are possible even in a messy house.
1) If you know they do not take care of such things, limit the amount of toys and games and puzzles they may have that have parts to get lost. If they cannot take care of things that are "age appropriate" I would simply tell them, "No, you may not have another set of train tracks, since you are apparently too young to care for them properly. We will try again when you are older and more responsible, or can pay for them yourself."
2) In my house, if they leave a big mess and will not clean it up, I get to keep the toy(s) for at least a day, or more. You don't care for it, you lose it.
3) If they break, destroy, lose and otherwise make useless a toy, I am not buying another one. Again, if you do not care for it, you lose it. It is not a necessity for life, and you will not die if you do not have a full set of transformers or a Monopoly game.
As for remotes, glasses, etc. There are ways to keep track of those without becoming a master of organization. Have the glasses wearer don some of those holders that you wear around your neck. If they are reading glasses and not used constantly, have a dish/drawer/shelf where they go and get into the habit of putting them there whenever they are not in use.
The same advice works for remotes. We have one for the stereo, one for the VCR and one for the tv, and they all were getting lost constantly. Then I got hold of a paperboard container for them and stuck it in the entertainment center. They always go there when they are not in someone's hand. No more remote searches in our house. Simple.
Anyway, if it is a constant mess and they are always losing things and making them useless, it would stand to reason that they should run out of things to lose sooner or later. Let them. Don't replace them. If they complain that they do not have this or that, I would say "Yes, I noticed that too, I have not been stepping on them. It has been so nice" or something to that effect. Simplify, and get rid of the stuff that no one seems to want to care for. You really do not need a thousand tools and doodads for kids to learn from.
Nanci K.
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>all).Hi Annette,
>
>My boys are 8 and 4.
>Annette
I have two boys too, a bit younger than yours. Several things are possible even in a messy house.
1) If you know they do not take care of such things, limit the amount of toys and games and puzzles they may have that have parts to get lost. If they cannot take care of things that are "age appropriate" I would simply tell them, "No, you may not have another set of train tracks, since you are apparently too young to care for them properly. We will try again when you are older and more responsible, or can pay for them yourself."
2) In my house, if they leave a big mess and will not clean it up, I get to keep the toy(s) for at least a day, or more. You don't care for it, you lose it.
3) If they break, destroy, lose and otherwise make useless a toy, I am not buying another one. Again, if you do not care for it, you lose it. It is not a necessity for life, and you will not die if you do not have a full set of transformers or a Monopoly game.
As for remotes, glasses, etc. There are ways to keep track of those without becoming a master of organization. Have the glasses wearer don some of those holders that you wear around your neck. If they are reading glasses and not used constantly, have a dish/drawer/shelf where they go and get into the habit of putting them there whenever they are not in use.
The same advice works for remotes. We have one for the stereo, one for the VCR and one for the tv, and they all were getting lost constantly. Then I got hold of a paperboard container for them and stuck it in the entertainment center. They always go there when they are not in someone's hand. No more remote searches in our house. Simple.
Anyway, if it is a constant mess and they are always losing things and making them useless, it would stand to reason that they should run out of things to lose sooner or later. Let them. Don't replace them. If they complain that they do not have this or that, I would say "Yes, I noticed that too, I have not been stepping on them. It has been so nice" or something to that effect. Simplify, and get rid of the stuff that no one seems to want to care for. You really do not need a thousand tools and doodads for kids to learn from.
Nanci K.
------------------------------------------------------------
Show off your pagan (and Idaho) pride, get Idaho Pagan Mail(tm) today!
Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/
[email protected]
We are messy, but we have a "lost parts drawer" where extra cards, game
pieces, puzzle pieces, etc. go. When a game's taken out, part of setting the
game up is to go to that drawer and collect parts (if any). It works great!
Sandra
pieces, puzzle pieces, etc. go. When a game's taken out, part of setting the
game up is to go to that drawer and collect parts (if any). It works great!
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 01/31/2001 6:10:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
naake1999@... writes:
Yep -- my kids are 7 and 6. It's not an easy thing to stay focussed after
the fun of the game is over or when the next thing beckons.
For a while, I had things put UP -- out of reach -- so they couldn't get the
next thing down until the 1st thing was at least crammed back into its box.
Some art supplies are still that way -- like paint.
I do notice that the things that my son has paid for out of birthday $$ seem
to get a little more care -- the Gameboy games get put in the drawer.
Also, the boxes that things come in are sometimes useless. After the first
few times, many things end up in zip-loc bags here. Chess pieces, etc.
Also, things are done here in the middle of the living room floor. I know --
it's not real Martha Stewart. But, if you want to do the Monopoly game first
you HAVE to pick up the puzzle -- there is no choice.
But I do end up doing a lot of the picking up, I admit. They help a certain
amount but I usually finish.
Good luck.
Nance
naake1999@... writes:
My boys are 8 and 4.
Yep -- my kids are 7 and 6. It's not an easy thing to stay focussed after
the fun of the game is over or when the next thing beckons.
For a while, I had things put UP -- out of reach -- so they couldn't get the
next thing down until the 1st thing was at least crammed back into its box.
Some art supplies are still that way -- like paint.
I do notice that the things that my son has paid for out of birthday $$ seem
to get a little more care -- the Gameboy games get put in the drawer.
Also, the boxes that things come in are sometimes useless. After the first
few times, many things end up in zip-loc bags here. Chess pieces, etc.
Also, things are done here in the middle of the living room floor. I know --
it's not real Martha Stewart. But, if you want to do the Monopoly game first
you HAVE to pick up the puzzle -- there is no choice.
But I do end up doing a lot of the picking up, I admit. They help a certain
amount but I usually finish.
Good luck.
Nance
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/31/01 1:25:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< We are messy, but we have a "lost parts drawer" where extra cards, game
pieces, puzzle pieces, etc. go. When a game's taken out, part of setting
the
game up is to go to that drawer and collect parts (if any). It works great!
only to find most of the games had been emptied on the floor in there. They
spent several hours sorting pieces. We may need a parts drawer in the new
house.
candice
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< We are messy, but we have a "lost parts drawer" where extra cards, game
pieces, puzzle pieces, etc. go. When a game's taken out, part of setting
the
game up is to go to that drawer and collect parts (if any). It works great!
>>Sounds like a great idea. I just had the kids clean out one of their closests
only to find most of the games had been emptied on the floor in there. They
spent several hours sorting pieces. We may need a parts drawer in the new
house.
candice
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/31/1 1:10:02 AM, naake1999@... writes:
<<They don't waste much time regretting that their
games and puzzles are ruined, but I'm sorry about it because I think those
things offer valuable learning experiences (plus they cost money, after
all).>>
Hi Annette,
This is when I will stop buying alot of these things that the pieces get
lost. After the games are missed for a little bit, and they begin to ask for
new ones... I would tell my daughter, OK, but we have to remember to keep all
the pieces together... otherwise we won't be able to use it. For me, this
saves money and teaches her responsibility. It seems to work for us.
Actually, we don't have many of these games right now with alot of pieces
(because they kept getting lost). I really want her to know that she/I can't
just keep replacing all the games just because someone didn't feel like
putting the pieces back again. That's just a waste.
BTW- Thanks to everyone who responded back to my introduction. It seems
there is such a wide diversity in this group, concerning choices made in
life, religions, beliefs, thoughts.... but one thing is clear- we all want
autonomy from conformity for ourselves and our children, and to give our kids
the best they could possibly have.
Vic, 34 and Ariel (4/11/96)
<<They don't waste much time regretting that their
games and puzzles are ruined, but I'm sorry about it because I think those
things offer valuable learning experiences (plus they cost money, after
all).>>
Hi Annette,
This is when I will stop buying alot of these things that the pieces get
lost. After the games are missed for a little bit, and they begin to ask for
new ones... I would tell my daughter, OK, but we have to remember to keep all
the pieces together... otherwise we won't be able to use it. For me, this
saves money and teaches her responsibility. It seems to work for us.
Actually, we don't have many of these games right now with alot of pieces
(because they kept getting lost). I really want her to know that she/I can't
just keep replacing all the games just because someone didn't feel like
putting the pieces back again. That's just a waste.
BTW- Thanks to everyone who responded back to my introduction. It seems
there is such a wide diversity in this group, concerning choices made in
life, religions, beliefs, thoughts.... but one thing is clear- we all want
autonomy from conformity for ourselves and our children, and to give our kids
the best they could possibly have.
Vic, 34 and Ariel (4/11/96)
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/31/2001 11:26:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
noni411@... writes:
That is truly the core reason why we here in this group!
Welcome again - Vic!
Dawn
noni411@... writes:
BTW- Thanks to everyone who responded back to my introduction. It seems
there is such a wide diversity in this group, concerning choices made in
life, religions, beliefs, thoughts.... but one thing is clear- we all want
autonomy from conformity for ourselves and our children, and to give our
kids
the best they could possibly have.
Vic, 34 and Ariel (4/11/96)
That is truly the core reason why we here in this group!
Welcome again - Vic!
Dawn
Cory and Amy Nelson
Annette-
My husband is a children's therapist, and at his former job he had an office
full of toys and puzzles and games with small pieces and a play therapy bag
filled with the same that he took to clients' homes. It always seemed as if
he was losing a piece. He would go to Toys R Us every once in a while to
pick up a package filled with game pieces, dice, etc. It only cost him a
dollar or two. I don't know if that would help you replace your missing
games pieces, but it certainly did with my dh.
I've had some luck replacing my dd's missing puzzle pieces by contacting the
place I purchased it at and asking for a replacement. She had a wooden peg
puzzle that we bought her from The Playstore and somehow we lost a piece.
When I asked about a replacement, they said the manufacturer would send a
replacement for free. I know that Discovery Toys will also replace missing
or broken pieces.
Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls
My husband is a children's therapist, and at his former job he had an office
full of toys and puzzles and games with small pieces and a play therapy bag
filled with the same that he took to clients' homes. It always seemed as if
he was losing a piece. He would go to Toys R Us every once in a while to
pick up a package filled with game pieces, dice, etc. It only cost him a
dollar or two. I don't know if that would help you replace your missing
games pieces, but it certainly did with my dh.
I've had some luck replacing my dd's missing puzzle pieces by contacting the
place I purchased it at and asking for a replacement. She had a wooden peg
puzzle that we bought her from The Playstore and somehow we lost a piece.
When I asked about a replacement, they said the manufacturer would send a
replacement for free. I know that Discovery Toys will also replace missing
or broken pieces.
Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls
> For instance, we have lost chess pieces, some playing cards, Mancala pieces,
> parts of Transformers, crucial cards in a board game, dice, etc. Games seem
> to be particular victims of this syndrome.
DiamondAir
We use a lot of ziploc bags for keeping game pieces and puzzles organized
within the box. Generally after the kids play with something, we pick it up
(unless it's an ongoing project or game of some sort). I think the key
though (as with any discipline) is modeling and repetition. So when we're
done with breakfast dishes, the kids bring their dishes to the sink and then
they know that I'm not available for play or anything else until I've picked
up everything from making breakfast. When the kitchen is nice and clean, I'm
available to do activities with them again. Same with everything we do - if
we take a bath, we don't move on until the towels are picked up and the tub
mopped up, if I get my photos and albums out, I don't do anything else until
I've picked them up. Of course, with very young kids as I have, I have to be
flexible with this - if a crisis comes up, I have to stop what I'm doing and
take care of things. But then before I go on to a different activity I pick
up after myself. I can't ask anything of the kids that I can't do myself.
And also of course the repetition - I often have to state things many times
("we need to pick up this game before we go to the park"), and for us at
this age I help them out almost always or turn it into a game or come up
with a song. "Many hands make happy work" is our mantra :-)
There are a couple areas of the house that are "messy zones" - our misc.
craft drawer, the kids bedroom (most of the time :-) - and those we just
don't worry about. Shut the door and voila, they're clean :-)
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I want to grow up to be a nun, because I love to
sing" (can you tell we just watched the "Sound of Music"??)
and Asa (10/5/99) "More get doggies happy be!"
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
within the box. Generally after the kids play with something, we pick it up
(unless it's an ongoing project or game of some sort). I think the key
though (as with any discipline) is modeling and repetition. So when we're
done with breakfast dishes, the kids bring their dishes to the sink and then
they know that I'm not available for play or anything else until I've picked
up everything from making breakfast. When the kitchen is nice and clean, I'm
available to do activities with them again. Same with everything we do - if
we take a bath, we don't move on until the towels are picked up and the tub
mopped up, if I get my photos and albums out, I don't do anything else until
I've picked them up. Of course, with very young kids as I have, I have to be
flexible with this - if a crisis comes up, I have to stop what I'm doing and
take care of things. But then before I go on to a different activity I pick
up after myself. I can't ask anything of the kids that I can't do myself.
And also of course the repetition - I often have to state things many times
("we need to pick up this game before we go to the park"), and for us at
this age I help them out almost always or turn it into a game or come up
with a song. "Many hands make happy work" is our mantra :-)
There are a couple areas of the house that are "messy zones" - our misc.
craft drawer, the kids bedroom (most of the time :-) - and those we just
don't worry about. Shut the door and voila, they're clean :-)
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I want to grow up to be a nun, because I love to
sing" (can you tell we just watched the "Sound of Music"??)
and Asa (10/5/99) "More get doggies happy be!"
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
Susan
Your posts struck a real chord with me. We just got two wonderful Shelties, seven months old. They are everything dogs can be--great fun, lots of love, and constantly getting in to everything. We have had the discussion regarding picking up the toys, and the kids have been great about that. But, my youngest son neglected to put away the Playstation. Moose chewed right through one of the controllers. My son, bless him, was so worried that Moose may have ingested something, that he immediately collected all the pieces, and found they were all there. Then, I noticed, that not only did the Playstation get put back completely, so did everything---including things I would never have thought of putting away. He learned something really important....now if I can only get my husband to put the newspaper in the recycling bin....and then maybe I'll get inspired to vacuum the rugs...Susan
----- Original Message -----Sent: 01/30/2001 11:39:04 PMSubject: [Unschooling-dotcom] messy vs. disorganized
You would think that after having puzzles, games, models and other items with small pieces rendered unusable because parts had been lost, that they'd be more conscientious, but nooooo. They don't waste much time regretting that their games and puzzles are ruined, but I'm sorry about it because I think those things offer valuable learning experiences (plus they cost money, after>all).>>My boys are 8 and 4.>AnnetteHi Annette,I have two boys too, a bit younger than yours. Several things are possible even in a messy house.1) If you know they do not take care of such things, limit the amount of toys and games and puzzles they may have that have parts to get lost. If they cannot take care of things that are "age appropriate" I would simply tell them, "No, you may not have another set of train tracks, since you are apparently too young to care for them properly. We will try again when you are older and more responsible, or can pay for them yourself."2) In my house, if they leave a big mess and will not clean it up, I get to keep the toy(s) for at least a day, or more. You don't care for it, you lose it.3) If they break, destroy, lose and otherwise make useless a toy, I am not buying another one. Again, if you do not care for it, you lose it. It is not a necessity for life, and you will not die if you do not have a full set of transformers or a Monopoly game.As for remotes, glasses, etc. There are ways to keep track of those without becoming a master of organization. Have the glasses wearer don some of those holders that you wear around your neck. If they are reading glasses and not used constantly, have a dish/drawer/shelf where they go and get into the habit of putting them there whenever they are not in use.The same advice works for remotes. We have one for the stereo, one for the VCR and one for the tv, and they all were getting lost constantly. Then I got hold of a paperboard container for them and stuck it in the entertainment center. They always go there when they are not in someone's hand. No more remote searches in our house. Simple.Anyway, if it is a constant mess and they are always losing things and making them useless, it would stand to reason that they should run out of things to lose sooner or later. Let them. Don't replace them. If they complain that they do not have this or that, I would say "Yes, I noticed that too, I have not been stepping on them. It has been so nice" or something to that effect. Simplify, and get rid of the stuff that no one seems to want to care for. You really do not need a thousand tools and doodads for kids to learn from.Nanci K.------------------------------------------------------------Show off your pagan (and Idaho) pride, get Idaho Pagan Mail(tm) today!Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~>eGroups is now Yahoo! GroupsClick here for more details---------------------------------------------------------------------_->Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.comAddresses:Post message: [email protected]Unsubscribe: [email protected]List owner: [email protected]List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom--- seaf@...
Kerry Kibort
Hi all! After the last week of bickering , I decided
to start a new email list for unschoolers on a more
peaceful, less argumentative path.
go to yahoo groups, check out unschoolkingdom.
If political debates dont fuel your fire, come on
over!
Kerry
to start a new email list for unschoolers on a more
peaceful, less argumentative path.
go to yahoo groups, check out unschoolkingdom.
If political debates dont fuel your fire, come on
over!
Kerry
Ashley
I would be interested in joining this group -- but I had trouble signing up.
Do you need to have a Yahoo e-mail address to do so?
Ashley
Do you need to have a Yahoo e-mail address to do so?
Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
>>
> Hi all! After the last week of bickering , I decided
> to start a new email list for unschoolers on a more
> peaceful, less argumentative path.
> go to yahoo groups, check out unschoolkingdom.
> If political debates dont fuel your fire, come on
> over!
> Kerry
>
>
Kerry Kibort
You dont need a yahoo addy, just go to yahoo groups
and look for unschoolkingdom.
Kerry
and look for unschoolkingdom.
Kerry